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Chinese salt and pepper dishes: sichuan peppercorns??

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spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 11:07 AM

I had a craving the other day, which led me to look up recipes for Chinese fried salt and pepper tofu. A lot of the ones I came across simply asked for black pepper, but that wasn't what I was looking for. Apparently, the "pepper" referred to in the name of the dish is Sichuan peppercorn. More reading turned up the fact that these were banned for decades, but that got me to thinking...

If they were banned for so long, what was I eating in all of those salt and pepper prawn/sparerib/tofu/squid/fish dishes I lovingly gobbled up in all the years it was banned? It definitely wasn't black pepper. Have all the restaurants that have been serving salt and pepper __fill in the blank__ been using Sichuan peppercorns all along despite the ban? My tongue is craving the flavor, but before I break into my peppercorn stash, I want to be sure it's going to be the flavor I'm expecting it to be.

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    hyperbowler RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 11:25 AM

    If your mouth felt numb, you were probably eating sichuan peppercorns... availability and legality are different beasts.

    I didn't know about the ban until a few years ago, but it explained a lot. I used to look for them in Manhattan's Chinatown, and shop keepers would show no recognition of what I was asking for. I would find them on the shelves under one new name or another (e.g., prickly-ash), so I assumed my denied requests were a word/language issue!

    3 Replies
    1. re: hyperbowler
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      spaghetina RE: hyperbowler Mar 26, 2012 11:41 AM

      I just tested a cube of tofu, fried and topped with sichuan peppercorn salt. My mouth is definitely a bit numb, but it's also not the taste I've come to expect from salt and pepper dishes. I'm wondering if 5 spice is the secret ingredient, instead, as I don't recall ever having a numb mouth from eating a salt and pepper dish.

      1. re: spaghetina
        JMF RE: spaghetina Apr 15, 2012 01:44 PM

        From what I was taught in several American based Chinese restaurants. In salt and pepper dishes the pepper is sliced hot pepper. the dish is made by lightly dusting the food in cornstarch. then you take a wok and add oil, salt, and bring to heat. Add hot pepper, usually jalapeno, and fry for 30 seconds, then add cornstarch dusted food and fry in the oil and hot pepper flavored oil until just barely cooked.

      2. re: hyperbowler
        jgg13 RE: hyperbowler Mar 26, 2012 07:21 PM

        Several years before the ban was lifted, I was lamenting not being able to get the pepercorns to a chinese coworker. He was adamant that I could easily get them in chinatown, as that's where he & his wife got them all of the time. I pointed out that he was Chinese and a native speaker, and I was white and didn't speak the language at all - *he* could buy them there, I could not.

      3. Teep RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 11:26 AM

        You can buy "spiced salt" at Chinese groceries which has some ground Sichuan peppercorns already mixed in. Don't know if this is allowed or just slipped in under the radar.

        3 Replies
        1. re: Teep
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          spaghetina RE: Teep Mar 26, 2012 11:43 AM

          I just did a search for spiced salt, and it looks like maybe that's the animal I'm searching for!

          1. re: spaghetina
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            hyperbowler RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 01:47 PM

            What's in spiced salt?

            The other ingredients have far too strong a flavor, so I couldn't imagine anyone using five spice powder in a "salt and pepper" dish.

            One of my cookbooks mixes black pepper, salt, and sichuan peppercorns together. I don't know if that's what you ate, but I like that mix.

            1. re: spaghetina
              huiray RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 08:22 PM

              You mean "花椒鹽" ?
              http://www.shanghaiwholesale.com/imag...
              http://www.gohappy.com.tw/images/prod...
              http://home.meishichina.com/space-426...
              http://blog.roodo.com/pigimiaomiao/ar...

          2. Dave MP RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 03:22 PM

            When I order 'salt and pepper' dishes at Cantonese restaurants, they usually don't have sichuan peppercorn in them - just red chili and salt. In fact, I can't really recall ever having a 'salt and pepper' dish (like fried shrimp or calamari) with Sichuan peppercorn in it...

            4 Replies
            1. re: Dave MP
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              jumpingmonk RE: Dave MP Mar 26, 2012 04:13 PM

              It sort of depends on the resturaunt. Some use black pepper, some sichuan pepper, some chili pepper (fresh or dried) and many use a combination of two or more of the above. Fried garlic is also pretty common (as a sprinkling on top). I tend to prefer either black or sichuan or a mix of the two (I'm far more senstive to the bite of capsacin than piperine or hydroxy-alpha-sanshool) (guess they discovered the active chemical in Japan as it has the Japanese name, sansho, in it) and so find high chili versions a little too hot for me.)

              1. re: Dave MP
                Melanie Wong RE: Dave MP Mar 30, 2012 02:13 PM

                The Sichuan peppercorns are finely ground into a powder for salt and pepper dishes. You might not have noticed.

                1. re: Dave MP
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                  verysmallowls RE: Dave MP Apr 15, 2012 10:46 AM

                  i think that sichuan peppercorns aren't often used in cantonese preparations, even though sichuan peppercorns are available in the US now. i remember salt-and-pepper pork as salt, chilis, scallions, and probably white pepper?

                  1. re: Dave MP
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                    verysmallowls RE: Dave MP Apr 15, 2012 10:46 AM

                    also for reference, white pepper is what makes hot and sour soup hot.

                  2. raytamsgv RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 04:26 PM

                    It depends on the type of restaurant. Salt and pepper dishes are very common in Cantonese cooking, which almost never uses Sichuan peppercorns. Sichuan peppercorns aren't that spicy. They numb your tongue, lips, and mouth.

                    Although they may have been technically illegal to import into the US for years, it's not that difficult to do so (Note: I'm not advocating any such type of activity). Last year, Sandra Bullock openly admitted on national TV about how she engaged in illegal German sausage trafficking.

                    1 Reply
                    1. re: raytamsgv
                      jgg13 RE: raytamsgv Mar 26, 2012 07:22 PM

                      They are no longer illegal here in the US, not for a while now (5-6 years at least)

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                      MikeG RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 04:58 PM

                      Fwiw, based on personal experience, they weren't banned for decades, so you may well have been eating Szechuan peppercorns, at least some of the time. They were indeed banned a couple of times, but only for a total of a few years, until they developed heat treatment protocols to prevent the possibility of spreading citrus canker.

                      2 Replies
                      1. re: MikeG
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                        jumpingmonk RE: MikeG Mar 26, 2012 07:53 PM

                        Yeah, so it's fine for people who want to cook with them, though not I would imagine for anyone who wants to try to cut down on their spice bill by trying to grow thier own tree. I'm not saying anyone here would try something as bizarre as that (well, I would, but I live waay to far north to try something like that (sichuan peppercorns are sub tropical, so you'd probably need to live in S. Florida, Calfornia of Hawaii to pull it off) plus I like my skin unpuctured (they don't call the trees prickly ashes for nothing). but for anyone who was thinking about it, don't bother, pepeprcorns made safe are dead.

                        1. re: jumpingmonk
                          huiray RE: jumpingmonk Mar 26, 2012 08:27 PM

                          ...and of course, as you know, they're not really peppercorns,not the sort like those from Piper nigrum; but are just the "shells" of the fruit of a plant in the citrus family. ;-)

                      2. huiray RE: spaghetina Mar 26, 2012 08:16 PM

                        I would not generally expect Sichuan peppercorns ("Fa Chiew"; 花椒) to be used in "Salt & Pepper dishes especially if they were Cantonese in derivation. Raytamsgv and jumpingmonk in the thread above address this more extensively. In my experience and expectation it would be literally black or white pepper (Piper nigrum) and salt (Sodium chloride) as the predominant condiments in these dishes, augmented with chile peppers, ginger, spring onions, sliced onions, etc depending on the chef or dish.

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                          tastesgoodwhatisit RE: spaghetina Mar 27, 2012 01:38 AM

                          There's a spice I know as "pepper salt" in Taiwanese cooking (椒鹽粉). It's a very finely ground powder, there's salt and pepper in there, probably some MSG, and some other ingredients, judging by my attempts to Google in Chinese possibly cinnamon. It's typically used to finish fried dishes, particularly things like deep fried chicken or pork.

                          1. tommy RE: spaghetina Mar 27, 2012 06:12 AM

                            I've found white pepper adds the flavor that I look for in these dishes.

                            2 Replies
                            1. re: tommy
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                              doctorandchef RE: tommy Mar 31, 2012 02:40 PM

                              I learned from a HK chef to use galangal powder when making the spicy stir fried squid... loosely translated as "chili salt squid".... perhaps that's the elusive taste?

                              1. re: doctorandchef
                                tommy RE: doctorandchef Mar 31, 2012 08:26 PM

                                Could be. Never had it, but galangal has a bit of spice to it. I'll try this

                            2. Bacardi1 RE: spaghetina Apr 15, 2012 12:28 PM

                              It depends on the cuisine. Some "salt-&-pepper" dishes use Szechuan Peppercorns; others use regular Telicherry Black Peppercorns.

                              My husband & I dined yesterday at
                              **"Peter Chang's Chinese Grill" in Charlottesville, VA (any true afficionados of Szechuan cuisine have surely heard of him - he's internationally infamous at this point - lol), & while my "Braised Szechuan Fish in Chili Sauce" was appropriately studded with dried chili peppers & Szechuan peppercorns, my husbands "Bamboo Fish" (which is technically a "salt-&-pepper" dish) was appropriately heavily seasoned with ground black pepper.

                              It's really dish-distinctive re: what type of "heat" is added to each dish.

                              **(And if you do a websearch re: "Peter Chang" you'll know what I mean.)

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