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Juicers : Champion versus Omega ?

LJcfp Mar 24, 2012 04:08 PM

Just got a Champion...have had an Omega for many years,which I consider superior to the Champion.....opinions please ?

  1. s
    shiny Mar 25, 2012 02:10 PM

    I've had both and currently have an Omega 8005 single-gear juicer which I like very much. The low speed single- and double-gear juicers are superior to the Champion and centrifugal-type juicers, IMO.

    The gears rotate slowly, crushing the cellulose walls to release the juice, rather than shredding the vegetables at high speed. Juicers that shred the vegetables at high speed generate heat and whip air into the juice. High heat damages enzymes, while air whipped into the juice causes oxidation to set in almost immediately.

    Although the gears turn at a low speed, juicing goes fast. My Omega is also simple to clean.

    29 Replies
    1. re: shiny
      LJcfp Mar 26, 2012 06:24 PM

      Good points , thanks....I'm pre disposed to prefer my tried and true Omega but couldn't resist a good buy on the Champion

      1. re: LJcfp
        m
        MacGuffin Apr 27, 2012 10:24 AM

        I've had my Champion since 1988 although I haven't used it since 2009--it still runs perfectly after all these years. Even the folks at Norwalk, the manufacturer of arguably the best juicer on the planet, always recommend the Champion as the next-best option and it's also the Gerson Institute's second choice for cancer patients: http://gerson.org/gerpress/gerson-gui... . You didn't throw away your money, believe me--those little teeth do a better job of rupturing cells than an auger juicer can, although the single-auger juicers are much better for wheatgrass. However, you can now get a greens attachment for your Champion, although in your situation it would probably be overkill. Use your Omega for greens and your Champion for everything else--best of both worlds!

      2. re: shiny
        m
        MacGuffin Apr 27, 2012 10:21 AM

        The human GI tract, not to mention our oral cavity, is 98.6º F, MUCH higher than any juice that results from "non-slow" juicing, and that's not even taking a febrile individual into account--are we to assume that those who are ill can't utilize nutrients in fresh produce because enzymes are damaged the minute their carriers enter a patient's mouth? Mind you, I'm not trying to be combative--it's just that there's no actual science (in the way of controlled studies) that supports these claims by the manufacturers of auger juicers--it's pretty much a sales pitch. Now foam, on the other hand, is actually supposed to be a problem because it can accelerate oxidation.

        Out of curiosity, what's the difference between the 8005 and the 8006?

        1. re: MacGuffin
          Ditdah May 16, 2012 01:07 PM

          Personally, I think the heat argument is a bunch of hooey, but I know some people (especially people with a raw food diet) don't want to have the heat added. The oxidation and air, however, IS a difference maker to me. Not necessarily in that I am worried about how it affects the enzymes or nutrients, but in both the color and texture of the resulting product.

          When I juice apples in my centrifugal juicer, I get a much darker product than I get with my friend's single-auger style juicer (Hurom Slow Juicer). Juicing apples from the same bag at the same time, the result from her juicer is creamy straw-colored, while mine is much darker brown. Also, the amount of foam that is in mine is annoying; there's much less foam/air with the auger-style. The juice from the centrifugal one seperates almost instantly, whereas the other stays uniform. Finally, when juicing "pulpy" fruits like berries or peaches, the juice from the Hurom is thick, more like 'nectar', versus the thinner juice from mine. (However, both are more robust than most store-bought juices.)

          To be fair, I have a crappy Jack LaLanne juicer. So 'better' centrifugal juicers might not do as poor a job as what I have. But it was in my price range at the time I started experimenting with juicing.

          1. re: Ditdah
            dcrb May 16, 2012 07:26 PM

            Ditdah

            I scoured the internet looking for info on juicers to augment our diet and to ward off cancer. I saw many pros and cons, statements about heat and oxidation, looked at grass juicers and the centrifugal. Ended up with a Vitamix solely because it uses everything. Cannot say it is better or worse than a dedicated juicer, but it is more versatile. By the way, your name is unique. Not by any chance a retired 05H (its a morse thing).

            1. re: dcrb
              m
              MacGuffin May 17, 2012 06:00 AM

              I sing the Vitamix's praises all over Chowhound but it's not a juicer and the fact that what it produces "uses everything" is why you won't get the same benefits, which are different from those associated with the consumption of whole food. I've influenced several Vitamix owners about the benefits of juicing and at least one of them invested in a Champion and had her boyfriend build her a hydraulic press; another is working on designing a juice press with a friend so that "Vitapulp" (which will probably have to be processed with at least some water) can be economically pressed for juice. Juicing and blending are a whole different ball of wax and complement each other; Vitamix's "total juice" shpiel is the only exception I take to their campaign, otherwise I think they walk on water.

              1. re: MacGuffin
                j
                jeanmarieok Feb 6, 2013 07:28 AM

                I agree with MacGuffin - Vitamix is NOT a juicer.

              2. re: dcrb
                Ditdah May 17, 2012 11:47 AM

                I'll probably get a Vitamix at some point, mostly because I'm annoyed with the way I currently make smooties:
                - juice fruits
                - pour fresh juice, ice, and any dairy I feel like in blender
                - add some of the pulp from the juicer (to keep the fiber)
                - blend for smoothie

                This is an insane way to make smoothies, but it's faster than chopping all my fruit to small pieces so my current cheapo blender can handle it. However, we drink a lot of straight juices (especially green juices as an after-work snack) so I want to keep a juicer around as well.

                And yeah, I get asked a lot if my name is a morse code thing, but it's actually a family nickname; when my little brother was first learning to speak and couldn't say my name correctly, it came out as "Ditdah." For some reason it just stuck!

                1. re: Ditdah
                  dcrb May 17, 2012 05:12 PM

                  Nice nickname. MacGuffin made a lot of sense in his comment that I had not given much thought to.

                  1. re: dcrb
                    m
                    MacGuffin May 17, 2012 06:37 PM

                    ...HER comment. :)

              3. re: Ditdah
                m
                MacGuffin May 17, 2012 05:53 AM

                You're clearly possessed of common sense and there's no way a juicer could heat juice to anything approaching a temperature that would be problematic to a raw foodist. And as I've probably posted before on related boards, ANY juicer that sees regular use is better than an expensive juicer that sits unused.

                1. re: Ditdah
                  d
                  dixiegal Feb 5, 2013 06:34 PM

                  I am looking for a new juicer too. I have an old jack lalane one. Currently I make green smoothies in my Blendtec. I want to do carrot apple green juices. Lalane's juicer cannot juice leafy greens. So i am leaning toward the Omega VRT.

                  1. re: dixiegal
                    m
                    MacGuffin Feb 5, 2013 10:00 PM

                    I had "Vert" juice at Sur la Table and was underwhelmed. Gritty, as though the produce hadn't been ground finely enough and then hard little pieces had found their way into the juice. Juice from my Champion was far superior, both in flavor and mouthfeel. I can't speak for the juice from other Omega models; perhaps it's better.

                    1. re: MacGuffin
                      d
                      dixiegal Feb 6, 2013 03:22 AM

                      Thanks for the info and experiance about the Omega Vert. I have only being going on reviews on You tube, which were mostly favorable. Maybe it depends on what is being juiced? I know some juicers do better on certain fruits and veggies. My other thought was one of the Omega single auger, or the Twin Star double auger. It's just that these juicers require more prep with the fruits and veggies. My Jack Lalane takes very little prep. Which leads my interest in the Power Pro Grind one, that is a centrifugal type but is suppose to grind leafy greens. I just think I should get away from that style, due to the oxidation that it causes. I too have been reading the Gerson Therapy. I find it fascinating and of interest as my dad just died with cancer. As did his brother, sister and a daughter of each of them. So, I am getting a little paranoid.

                      1. re: dixiegal
                        m
                        MacGuffin Feb 6, 2013 06:14 AM

                        If you want tasty juice, ALL produce requires prep, e.g., root veggies should be "topped," "tailed," and peeled before juicing (and believe me, nutrient loss--if any--is minimal) and everything has to be washed and examined to ensure that nothing bad gets juiced. Most people come to find that juicing is a chore which is why one sees so many used juicers for sale. Please look into the Champion (they have videos on their site and you can call them toll-free). In all the years I've been juicing, I've never once regretted that purchase and even the folks at Norwalk (and believe me, if anyone knows about juicing, it's them) state that the Champion is second to theirs. Gerson only approves two juicers for cancer therapy--the Norwalk and the Champion combined with a hand press--the single-auger and twin-blade juicers don't lyse the cell walls of the produce well enough. Just make sure that if you buy a Champion to get black--the nylon parts stain like hell. If you look around, I'm sure you can get a used one for less if cost is a factor.

                        1. re: MacGuffin
                          d
                          dixiegal Feb 6, 2013 07:25 AM

                          Thanks MacGuffin. I will check out the Champion Juicer. I did see where Gerson recomended it (plus a press) second to the Norwalk. But I think that recomendation was made several years ago. I have no doubt that it is still a good juicer, but wonder if some of the juicer models that have come out since then, would be equally as good. (as the Champion. I don't think anything equals the Norwalk. :o))

                          So I will search out the Champion. (especially since there is a greens attachment) Do they have many different models like Omega does?
                          I still intend to make my smoothies. I like the fiber and it works as a light meal. Like fast food. Easy to pack and drink on the run and an easy way to get fresh veggies and fruits in me. But I want to supplement with the veggie juices too.

                          1. re: dixiegal
                            m
                            MacGuffin Feb 6, 2013 03:31 PM

                            I recently had a look at the Gerson site and the recommendations remain the same. For one thing, Norwalk juice is completely pulp-free (although what I call "the solids," the stuff that separates and sinks to the bottom, remain) and if you press your Champion juice, it will be, too. Still, I can't stand pulp in juice and never experienced pulpy juice from my Champion. They make two models that look identical, one is the standard model and one is commercial. Spend the extra few bucks and get the commercial; it's worth it. The greens attachment got pretty lousy reviews on Amazon but they might have improved it--again, give them a call. The video shows it juicing fruit and greens but I'd only do greens in it. And regardless of which model you buy, get black. The other colors stain like hell, no matter how scrupulously you try to maintain them.

                            Did you catch any of the "banana ice cream in the Champion" videos on YouTube? I think you'll be impressed. :)

                            1. re: MacGuffin
                              c
                              calumin Feb 6, 2013 08:06 PM

                              I still think the main determining factor is what you want to juice.

                              The Champion and Omega are not really similar juicers, even though both are called masticating juicers. The Champion operates at 1725 rpm while the Omega 8004/8006 operates at 80 rpm.

                              If you want to juice greens I think the Omega is a better machine. If you want to juice soft fruits only (like oranges) then the Champion is better. If you are juicing mostly carrots or other hard vegetables I think the Omega is also better but others may disagree.

                              1. re: calumin
                                m
                                MacGuffin Feb 6, 2013 09:06 PM

                                I guess I'm one of the others who disagrees. The Champion does a fabulous job on hard vegetables and makes beautiful, intense carrot juice. ("Oranges??") If one only plans to do greens, I'd be inclined to agree with you but I think most people want something more versatile.

                                Dixie, juice your carrots with just a little Fuji apple, a bit of gold beet, and just a little fresh ginger. I promise you'll think you died and went to heaven. Be sure to peel your root veggies; the very best peeler for the job is the Zena Star: http://www.simplygoodstuff.com/star_p... . Make sure you order the one with the Tungsten blade, not the stainless. You won't be sorry; it actually makes peeling kinda fun. :) I sent a few to my buddies at Norwalk and they loved them, too. And should you be tempted to order "the trilogy," don't. It's only a 40¢ savings over the cost of buying them separately and you'll be certain of getting the Star with the Tungsten blade.

                              2. re: MacGuffin
                                d
                                dixiegal Feb 7, 2013 03:35 AM

                                I did see on you tube where the VRT does leave some pulp. Some strain it through a strainer. I also saw the banana ice cream and nut butter with the champion juicer. But the Juicer that really caught my eye was the Angel Juicer. It looked really good, performance was good (made more juice) loved the all stainless steel but the price was over the top for me. I have also considered hthe Green Star, but it is so big and seems a little more complicated that a single auger style.

                                1. re: dixiegal
                                  m
                                  MacGuffin Feb 7, 2013 06:19 AM

                                  If you're planning on doing anything other than leafy greens, forget a twin-gear juicer. They take forever and quite a bit of physical force is required to push carrots through them (the blades also dull quickly) and they do a lousy job on soft fruit unless you use a modification that's available for that reason (I seem to recall its being called a "soft fruit knob" or some such). I also saw a demo of the Angel on YouTube in which the green juice had so much foam that it looked like it was ready to take a shave. You'll also end up with lots of pulp and the jury's still out on the length of time the warranty will actually be good because it's made in Korea (a country where, I understand, they treat their employees like solid nitrogenous waste, if you get my drift). I also picked this up as a comment on an Amazon review "Would love to have a Super Angel but too expensive and the screen has a limited one-year warranty with a $190 replacement cost, ouch!!!" I mean, c'mon. (And BTW, ALL screens are a royal PITA to keep clog-free, one of the reasons why I love my Norwalk and its grids.)

                                  The casings for the "Star" juicers are plastic and tend to break and in fact, the juicers themselves are mostly made of plastic; I've also read that there have been reports of metal filings in juice but these might be apocryphal. I've been a member on forums in which more than one member has owned both a SA and a Norwalk. The consensus is that it's a pleasure to use the SA for leafy greens, it's lousy for grasses, and the juice can't compare with that from the Norwalk. Bear in mind also that even with that $1200 price tag, you will STILL get pulp, which accounts for a good portion of that yield its manufacturer so glowingly touts. With the exception of one member, no one had anything good to say about the "Stars" and I suspect the lone dissenter might have been shilling for them. Add all this to the manufacturer's BS claim that the magnets used to maintain a proper tension between the two blades are there to infuse the juice with magical properties (if this is so, why hasn't mainstream industry picked up on this metallurgic miracle?) and you have, I think, enough evidence to look elsewhere. Bear in mind also that on top of everything, the juice is grittier than what you'll get with a Champion. I know people who've been juicing at least as long as I (and often longer), have bought twin-gear and single-auger juicers in addition to the Champion and Norwalk, and still say the juice from the other machines wasn't as palatable to them as Champion juice (it goes without saying that the Norwalk is in a different league altogether).

                                  Bottom line: I don't think there's a single juicer that's going to meet everyone's requirements and none of them clean themselves. I still maintain that you're going to get the most bang for your buck with a Champion, especially given that they VERY rarely inconvenience their owners with any sort of malfunction. Amazon reviews are often a good indication of an appliance's performance; pay special attention to the bad ones and take all of them with a grain of salt. Everyone wants to believe that they spent their money on "the best" and will often parrot anecdotal "evidence" in support of their opinion (e.g. the SA out-performs the Norwalk, juicers that aren't slow produce "hot juice, etc.). Use your common sense to sift through others' experiences and you should be fine. And FWIW, I recently recommended a Champion to a lady on a mixer forum of which I'm a member and she and her hubby LOVE it. They picked it up used for a very good price and are juicing and making fruit sorbet and nut butters like there's no tomorrow. She's also juicing greens with a little fruit (which I used to do) and is making delicious green juice without the greens attachment.

                                  1. re: MacGuffin
                                    d
                                    dixiegal Feb 7, 2013 07:39 AM

                                    Thanks so much McGuffin. You are a wealth of info. I too was a little bugged about the magnet thing. Just weird to me.

                                    Even though I have not really given the Champion so much thought, I was impressed with the track record of it and how long they have been used a produced. I don't even think they have altered them much. As long as I can juice a few leafy greens to mix in with other veg/fruits, I am fine. I get leafy greens in my smoothies anyway. Just would like more of the juice too. I need to find one of those Juicing/Blending message boards.

                                    1. re: dixiegal
                                      m
                                      MacGuffin Feb 7, 2013 10:33 AM

                                      Those juicing boards are long gone. :( They were infected by the homo sapiens equivalent of botulism and the list owners finally closed them down (one of them was sponsored by Norwalk; they jumped in after the owner of the non-Norwalk-affiliated site was forced to shut down but they gave up, too, leaving us with nothing but a bad taste in our mouths). There was a wonderful guy named Paul who'd started juicing in the '60s or '70s with a cheap Braun and became committed. He makes juice to-order for others, mostly with his Norwalks, in warehouse space he rents for that purpose and he's a wealth of info--many of the tips and much of the wisdom I pass on are from him, especially re Norwalk operation (I figured out the Champion stuff myself over the years). There were other seasoned juicing folks who also had lots to pass along, especially re the twin-gear models. I expect that the aforementioned "botulism" will turn up here eventually, too. :O~ (That's my "vomiticon.")

                                      If you're going to do greens in the Champion without the attachment, feed them into the tube along with fruit, don't alternate. I can tell you from experience that it works quite well. And do go for the commercial model in black if you decide to spring for one. I also recommend buying some nut milk bags to line the container you use to catch the pulp. The pulp will be quite wet and in this way you can strain its juice and then squeeze the bag to get even more. Just add this to the rest of the juice. I use this lady's bags and alway recommend them to others; they're excellent value: http://myworld.ebay.com/rawpriestess?... . I think I mentioned on another thread here how to store your juice once it's made (if you limit yourself to juicing a glass at a time, you won't stick with it). Stored properly and if your produce is in good shape, your juice should last up to a week in the fridge. :))

                                      1. re: MacGuffin
                                        d
                                        dixiegal Feb 7, 2013 06:39 PM

                                        You are exactly right about storing juice. No way could I make it a glass at a time. I make smoothies 5 or 6 pints at a time. Some times I will stick a couple jars in the freezer. Not ideal and I am sure there is some nutrients lost, but i do it any way. For smoothies, it changes the texture too. Not as good as before freezing, but still worth it for the convenience of having a few jars ready and waiting. Like fast food.

                                        1. re: dixiegal
                                          m
                                          MacGuffin Feb 7, 2013 07:09 PM

                                          You do what you can. I think those who want to change their diets and don't find some way to make the changes convenient are doomed. I've never stored smoothies but I know of lots of folks who do. I did a three-day juice fast last month and was happily surprised that even my Gerson green juice (made the day before Day 1) held up very well for the whole three days. It stayed delicious with no deterioration in texture or appearance. :)

                                          1. re: MacGuffin
                                            c
                                            calumin Feb 7, 2013 09:04 PM

                                            If you are looking at Omega I don't think you should look at the VRT juicers. I think most people like the 8004 / 8006 model. That's the one I was referring to earlier when comparing Omega vs Champion.

                                            As MacGuffin suggests, it's worth looking at Amazon reviews to get a wide variety of opinions from people who own the products. Both juicers get really high reviews but emphasize different features.

                                            1. re: calumin
                                              d
                                              dixiegal Feb 27, 2013 09:24 AM

                                              I really considered the 8004/8006 model. Loved how simple it is. But, I juice far more than just greens, so I went with the Omega VRT. With all the reviews, it just seemed the most versital. Kind of like a 'jack of all trades, master of none' kind of thing. I am pleased to say, that I am liking the VERT a lot. It handles the carrots and apples along with the greens just fine. Very little foam on top and not too pulpy for me. If the pulp gets to be more than I like, I can just put a strainer under the spout. The juice taste great to me.
                                              If one wants to juice mostly greens, I do believe the 8004/8006 would be best. (Not to mention much easier to clean.)
                                              With that said, the only other juicer I have owned was the Jack LaLanne centrifugal juicer. I like the VERT better. It is very quite and does not whip up all the foam and air that the Jack Lalanne does. Nor does it make the mess that my Jack Lalanne did. The juice from the VERT just quietly runs in the cup. The JL juicer, blew it out everywhere and sounded like a plane engine. I will say the JL juicer is much cheaper to buy than the VERT.
                                              Anyway, with my Blendtec for smoothies and my Omega VERT for the veggie juices, I am good to go!

                          2. re: dixiegal
                            k
                            Kusry Jun 10, 2013 06:44 PM

                            I've been juicing since January and reading about the Gerson therapy...trying to get rid of Hashimotos hypothyroidism...we have a vitamix for smoothies and rice milk ice cream(very very useful!!!). Our Juiceman juicer just broke and we broke down and bought an omega...it yields more juice if everything is firm....just wanting to let you know we've been drinking apple carrot juice at least twice a day (>6oz) and my awful plantar warts on my toes(gross I know) are halfway gone! My kid's warts on her hands have totally disappeared!!!! We were not expecting either of those but I'll take whatever we can get! I've also read the juicing bible and jaykordichs Live foods Live Bodies...check 'em out!!

                  2. re: shiny
                    f
                    foxspirit Oct 22, 2013 10:49 AM

                    I've never used a Champion but my last juicer was a Breville centrifuge type and my current in an Omega VRT. So the VRT does take more work (gotta prep stuff more) and is slower but you get a lot more juice and I swear it tastes better. It cleans very easily and doesn't take up much counter space. I've also made almond and soy milk successfully with it. Its not perfect but when I was shopping around I didn't want to break the bank but I also wanted something that would do everything from carrots to greens decently. This has fit the bill nicely. Oh and it is more pulpy than the Breville. I solved the problem by simply sticking a fine mesh colander type thing under the spout and resting on top of the juice jar (yes I do about 3 days worth at a time). Easy peasy.

                  3. c
                    coz77 Apr 29, 2012 04:21 AM

                    I just ordered a Robot Coupe J80 Ultra. I'll report back on the performance.

                    1. LJcfp May 17, 2012 06:48 PM

                      Forgot to mention that I've got a Vita-Mix as well as a Champion & Omega...sadly , I don't use any of 'em enough. McGuffin made a great point : , ANY juicer that sees regular use is better than an expensive juicer that sits unused. That may change as I've got a new Mail Order Bride coming from a Foreign Land ( well,ok , Florida ) who's really into this Health Fad business that's been sweeping the Nation lately. As for me, I subscribe to the saying : " Man did not rise to the top of the Food Chain by being Vegetarian "

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: LJcfp
                        d
                        dixiegal Feb 6, 2013 07:38 AM

                        >" Man did not rise to the top of the Food Chain by being Vegetarian "<

                        Lol. Love this. Though I have slacked off considerably from eating meat, I do still eat it. I have found that I cannot eat enough fruits and vegetables to sustain me.( I know now why cows and horses graze constantly) I lost weight like crazy, trying to survive on fruits and vegetables. Loosing weight is NOT what I need to do) I do try to keep my animal proteins (mostly organic or free range, when I can afford it) down to about 25% of my diet. Sometimes I fail though. Lol. Especially in the last few months while taking care of my parents, and working full time. Not much time to prepare my own food. I am feeling the effects too. I feel terrible.

                      2. b
                        bestbluecheese Feb 4, 2013 07:10 PM

                        They both have different grades of juicers - did you buy the Champion equivalent of the omega brand?

                        Me personally, I prefer masticating juicers. As far as centrifugal juicers though, I would go with the Breville brand.

                        1 Reply
                        1. re: bestbluecheese
                          m
                          MacGuffin Feb 4, 2013 10:09 PM

                          There is no "Champion equivalent of the omega brand." They make two models--one for home use, one rated for commercial use. They look exactly the same and neither is anything like any of the Omegas.

                        2. LJcfp Feb 5, 2013 06:08 PM

                          Still prefer my Omega : heavy,solid and easy to clean if you use the paper inserts , but I should have a Juice-Off with my Vita-Mix and Champion also......LJ

                          3 Replies
                          1. re: LJcfp
                            m
                            MacGuffin Feb 5, 2013 09:51 PM

                            I don't consider what the Vitamix produces to be juice. Diluted purée, yes. Juice, no. I love my Vitamix but a juicer it's not.

                            1. re: MacGuffin
                              d
                              dixiegal Feb 6, 2013 07:28 AM

                              'I love my Vitamix but a juicer it's not.'

                              I agree. I Vitamix or any blender is not a juicer. Juice does not contain the fiber of the fruits and vegetables. It is all liquid (except for some pulp that may sneak through)

                              1. re: dixiegal
                                m
                                MacGuffin Feb 6, 2013 03:34 PM

                                Vitamix really pushes their "total juice" agenda. It seems to have occurred to no one that even though juice contains no "roughage," the produce's soluble fiber certainly makes its way into the juice. IOW, it's not entirely fiber-free and hence you still get at least some of the benefits of fiber.

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