Help me identify these Japanese knives?

[GoodOmens]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help me identify these knives? My parents bought them for me when they were in Japan several years ago. From what I remember they were hand made by a 10~12 generation sword maker.

Also - what kind of the steel is the silver one made from (I understand the darker one is carbon) - I assume some sort of carbon. Is this white paper steel? How should I go about polishing? Along the edge were some dark marks - I read baking soda and a potato / cork would be a good way to polish. I assume this is ok?

The darker blade is about 5 inches and the silver blade is about 6 3/4 inches. If you'd like to see a larger photo to read some things better I can upload one elsewhere.

Thanks!

[naoki]

Maybe they are made by Kanefusa Fujiwara from Seki-city, Gifu Prefecture? Seki is one of the most famous "knife" regions.

The santoku (2nd photo) says "stainless-warikomi", it is V.Gold (stainless) sandwiched (cladded) by stainless steel. Their web site (http://www.diana.dti.ne.jp/~fujiwara/) says V.Gold is similar to yasuki-shirokami, but it is more resistant against rusting. Mine from Tosa (=Kouchi) region (another famous region for knives) uses the same warikomi construction (I think mine use some carbon steeel as the blade, though). You can treat it as if it is a stainless steel knife, but it is easier to sharpen (and hold the edge better). But I guess V.Gold is harder to sharpen?

Smaller one is probably aji-kiri. It is one of the smallest deba knives, and usually used for prepping small fish. "Aji" is one of my favorite fish (Horse mackerel). Most of their blades seem to be yasuki-shirokami sandwitched by soft iron (awase-bouchou, kurouchi is one of them, but there are many other types: kasumi, bokashi, etc.).

They are probably pretty nice knives.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Thanks Naoki. Do you know what kind of VG it is used? From what I know, VG-1, VG-10, and even VG-5 are all stainless steels.

[naoki]

Oops, you are right, their webpage didn't say it is "carbon" steel, it's stainless steel with some carbon (corrected above). The webpage just says that the official name is Ｖ金ゴールド (V gold gold), so I don't know which one.

[TeRReT]

If you could take a picture of just the purple paper that might also help. She couldn't read the papers well, the right side of the purple says something about good luck with your knife or luck anyways

[GoodOmens]

Here are pictures of the two documents. Click on them to get the supersize image....

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/9233/img0855qx.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/22...

[Chemicalkinetics]

I cannot read all of them, but they appear to be very general product brochures like telling us that it has 700 years of history background...wash and then dry immediately, do not cut frozen foods...etc.

[GoodOmens]

That's what I figured - thanks for your help!

Was your wife able to read the other characters on the blade itself? I guess that's what I'm more interested in.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Chemicalkinetcs =/ TeRReT.

Chemicalkinetics = Single
TeRReT = Married

Chemicalkinetics = living in US
TeRReT = living in Japan.

;)

[GoodOmens]

Doh! Sorry haha.

[TeRReT]

My fiancee just woke up, so I got as much out of her as I could, will try for more later.

The second picture she can't read the characters on the right, maybe if you could take a picture of them again or maybe I will try again later, but the characters on the left mean stainless steel is included in that knife.

The first picture I just got her to read the box, I will try to get her to read the paper later, but the box just means "Cooking knife" so that isn't much help. My utility knife from Kochi has the same thing written on its box, just in a bit older style Kanji.

The third picture the white label just says hand-made. I will ask the last knife later :P

The box says 御料理包丁 if you want it in text so you can read it on google translate or whatever, but its just "cooking knife" so not too exciting.

[GoodOmens]

TeRRet - thank you and your wife for your help.

Here are the full blown images - hopefully that will make the text easier to read:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6168/img0849sl.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1896...

Thank you again for your help!

[TeRReT]

my kanji is still 0 on reading level, so when my fiancee wakes up in an hour i will get her to translate for you unless Tanuki beats me

[Chemicalkinetics]

They are made from the same manufacturer/maker: 兼房. I do not know this brand.

Based on gut instinct, the shiny silver one should also be made of carbon steel. What kind? I cannot tell, and there is no information can be found on the photo.

The dark one has a kurouchi black finish, and this almost always suggest that it is a carbon steel knife.

[GoodOmens]

Ah yes - thanks for recognizing the characters. Kanefusa is the maker I believe. Which looking up reveals I was slightly wrong - a 25th generation sword maker.

It appears the silver knife is among the HKV series and made of V Gold steel (HRC60). Any tips on care would be great.

If anyone has any more information that would be great. Thanks again!

[Chemicalkinetics]

"It appears the silver knife is among the HKV series and made of V Gold steel (HRC60)"

Cool. I was wrong then. The knife just looks so traditional with traditional handle and ferrule that I assume it is the more traditional carbon steel blade.

VG steel actually includes a few different versions. VG-10 and VG-1 are stainless steel. VG-5 is possible, but rare. For your VG knife, the care should be simple. Treat it like normal stainless steel knife, but do not put it in dishwasher.

*edited*
Now, I see it is listed on JapaneseChefsKnife, although there it is called Fujiwara:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HKV...

The silver one is likely to be made of VG-1, I think.

The black blade (kurouchi) is mostly likely carbon steel, but there are exceptions.

[GoodOmens]

No worries - without you identifying the maker I wouldn't have been able to dig up exactly what you found.

Any tips on removing some of the black tarnish that has accumulated near the edge (I guess on what's called the damasacus finish?). I read baking soda is good to rub - but any other tips / what not to do would be great.

I had been sharpening them with a Chef's Choice 4623 (the asian slot of course and not the smaller knife as it's singe sided). But after reading more on more on this site and others I might invest in some proper whetstones.

As I've had roommates in the past - I've stored these knives and they've seen very little use. Now that I am living on my own - they've come out and are being used more and more. Hence why I'm posting.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Any tips on removing some of the black tarnish that has accumulated near the edge "

You can try the baking soda method with potato, but I find Bar Keeper Friend also works very well. In short, you should able to use some acidic solution to remove this oxide layer. That being said, you may or may not want to remove it. It could very well be what people call "patina", which is a naturally form layer of oxide to protect it from red rust. You can always remove it if you are not sure. However, just keep in mind that the edge will never be shiny, and you don't want it to be shiny. You want it to have a layer or black/gray/blusih patina.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/attach...

"But after reading more on more on this site and others I might invest in some proper whetstones."

Great. Feel free to post questions either way -- I do think your knives look to be good quality, and should not be sharpened by an electric knife sharpener like Chef's Choice.

[GoodOmens]

Great. I read about BKF but thinking my knife was carbon I wasn't sure if I could use it.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Many of my knvies are carbon steel and I have no trouble using BKF. It is good at removing rust and oxide because of it is acidic. When I tried to form patina on my knives, they do not always work out the way I want (I like the bluish color), so I would remove the rust/patina with Bar Keepers Friend until I get to what I want. Now, I won't clean the knives daily using Bar Keepers Friend because the acidicity natural of it can degrade the knife edge over time.

[John E.]

Chem, I finally have a Japanese knife question. (I hope I have not offended you in the past about my attempted humor about minute details on these knife threads. I have always known you or Cowboy would be my go to experts on knives if I ever had a question worthy of your attention).

Anyway, I recently ran across this knife in a thrift store:

http://w01-0485.web.dircon.net/knives...

I did not buy it because I don't really need another boning knife. However, if it has some value, it looks brand new and never used with the box, I might buy it to sell on eBay. The price is $20. What do you think of this knife?

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I hope I have not offended you in the past about my attempted humor about minute details on these knife threads"

Definitely not. I cannot remember a single incident which you have come anywhere close to offending any of us here.

That Shun boning looks like the Classic Shun line, and it was selling around $120 or so, but the price has dropped to $90-100 in recent months.

http://www.amazon.com/Shun-DM0710-Classic-6-Inch-Boning/dp/B0000Y7KPY/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1332531065&sr=1-2

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Shun-Clas...

I think it is a good knife and I think you should able to resell it easily around $60-80 -- as a brand new knife, and if you are not in a hurry to get it off of your hand, then you can sell it at the market price.

[John E.]

Thanks. I'm a little chagrined at not being able to identify a Shun. I only wish it were a chef's knife. Then I would have likely acquired some sharpening stones and then bugged you and cowboyardee on how to use them. I'll drop by the store to see if it's still there.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I only wish it were a chef's knife."

Well, if it was a Chef's knife, then it is unlike to be on sale at such a low price. :) Usually, the odd and unusual knives are the one on sale. Good luck resale and make a profit. :)

[John E.]

Yeah, I know, but it won't stop me from hoping I run across a deal like that. I have found 4 German 8" chefs knives, 3 Wusthofs and a Henkels, and a set of Wolfgang Puck German knockoffs, all used. (Not too mention too many Chicago Cutlery Walnut Tradition knives to count). Since there isn't much of a re-sale price on those. I'm hanging on to them to use as gifts if any of the young people in my extended family show an interest in cooking.

[Eiron]

Very thoughtful! I wish we had received good/used cutlery rather than the cheap/new stuff we were gifted with.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I agree with Eiron too. Very thoughtful. (did my message to you got deleted? maybe I just didn't press the post button). Anyway, what I wanted to say is that maybe it is time to teach those young people to take an interest in cooking. Cooking for oneself isn't just cool or foodies. Cooking for oneself is healthy.