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Can I safely cook with a silicone pot holder between a pot and induction cook surface?

r
redbeanbun Mar 17, 2012 07:47 AM

Does anyone know? Will it melt or off-gas? The square silicone potholders ads say safe up to 480 - 500 degrees depending on the model but you might expose a potholder to high temps for shorter periods of time than say, when you're cooking.

  1. k
    kagemusha49 May 7, 2012 07:54 AM

    The answer is YES but why would you want to.

    1 Reply
    1. re: kagemusha49
      TeRReT May 7, 2012 08:24 AM

      Because its easier to keep them clean and easier to keep them from getting damaged.

      My fiancee insisted we get one for our unit, apparently its pretty normal, food can get crusted on and dirty and the pots and pans can cause dirty spots or scratch the unit, so the silicon mat prevents this.

    2. tanuki soup Mar 17, 2012 05:17 PM

      Here in Japan, they sell special disks that are specifically for protecting induction cooktops. You can find them at most grocery stores. They are made of silicone and are rated to 450-500 F or so. I don't see why a silicone potholder shouldn't work just as well.

      Like paulj, I just use paper. IME, a couple of layers of old newspaper works great.

      Even though you've solved your leveling problem, you might still want to try the paper trick to catch spatters and simplify cleanup (especially when frying).

       
      43 Replies
      1. re: tanuki soup
        SWISSAIRE May 6, 2012 04:31 PM

        Ohayo Tanuki;

        That is an interesting product, that I would like to try.

        What sizes are they sold in ? Do they remain stuck onto the cooktop or do you take them off after cooking ? What are they called (in Romaji) ?

        Our cooktop is built into black granite countertop, and (from a distance ) appears to be complete, solid granite, which is what we wanted to do. I'd like to protect the cooking surface from any scratching, and the round and oval induction areas ( as opposed to the grill area ) are used quite frequently. I have added a photo that might illustrate my description better.

        As you know and have seen these at stores would this work for our application (sans grill ) ? Can this be ordered online from any store or vendor you know of in Japan ?

        Arigato Gozaimasu !

         
        1. re: SWISSAIRE
          TeRReT May 6, 2012 05:26 PM

          I am not Tanuki, and I don't know the romaji, but I did just wake up so ohayo, and they do just call it silicone mat in english on the package i bought

          rakuten or amazon.jp are your best bet.

          http://global.rakuten.com/en/search?k...

          There are different colours and shapes there, you can change your location and currency on the site and it'll maybe work better for you.

          1. re: TeRReT
            SWISSAIRE May 6, 2012 08:50 PM

            Thank you for the information and the link.

            1. re: SWISSAIRE
              TeRReT May 7, 2012 02:59 AM

              no problem, rakuten is the go to website for anything Japanese. Not all products are available for international shipping, but most are.

              1. re: SWISSAIRE
                tanuki soup May 7, 2012 05:10 AM

                Thanks for jumping in, TeRReT.

                To SWISSAIRE, you can also type "IH sheet" into the search box in TeRReT's link to get some more choices. I agree with him/her that Rakuten is probably your best bet.

                1. re: tanuki soup
                  SWISSAIRE May 7, 2012 04:02 PM

                  I appreciate the help and assistance from both of you.

                  I ran the comments by my wife ( She who must be obeyed ) and I might be purchasing a set or two online.

                  She reminded me that to begin with pink flower shapes are out, and that as I will be in Japan in August ( Waseda Daigaku reunion which I forgot ) it would be better to see the selection in person.

                  So the R&D continues whilst I wait. Anyone who has actual experience with such protective pads we would enjoy hearing from.

                  1. re: SWISSAIRE
                    k
                    kaleokahu Jun 12, 2012 11:49 AM

                    Hi, Swissaire:

                    Another option might be silicone baking sheets. Some time ago, I bought several large ones from this UK seller for very little money: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/peggysue100...

                    An advantage of these is that they come in black, glossy on one side, matte on the other, and are very thin (The induction field drops off as the inverse of the square root, so thickness is not your friend).

                    I bought several large sheets, and cut them to fit my warming cabinets and oven on my woodstove. I think they'd be ideal for helping attain your "seamless" look.

                    Aloha,
                    Kaleo

                    1. re: kaleokahu
                      SWISSAIRE Jun 12, 2012 12:10 PM

                      Thanks ! That's a great idea.

                      K, I also took a look at the copper site you linked in FR. I envision that your place must really glow !

                      1. re: SWISSAIRE
                        k
                        kaleokahu Jun 12, 2012 12:18 PM

                        It's not yet quite as bright as skiing the High Route in Der Schweitz, but we have lowered the wattage...

                        1. re: kaleokahu
                          SWISSAIRE Jun 12, 2012 02:26 PM

                          Good to hear !

                          Strange to see so many wearing sunglasses in the fog in California. Just a force of habit, or are they all celebrities ?

              2. re: TeRReT
                c
                cpsadowski Aug 6, 2013 01:31 PM

                Is there a brand name on the package? Have you had any problems with the mat burning and sticking to the surface?

              3. re: SWISSAIRE
                Caroline1 Jun 11, 2012 09:44 PM

                Swissaire (my FAVORITE airline!), if your cooktop is the same as the ad you've shown, that's a radiant electric cooktop and the silicone pads are intended for induction. The difference is that induction cooktops generate no heat but cause the molecules in ferrous metals in most of the world, and all metals (in some cases) in Japan to heat up, therefore the only heat comes from the pan, which is somewhat modified/damped/cooled by the contents. With radiant heat your have higher heat from the cooktop than from the pan bottom. I don't think silicone is a good idea for radiant heat under a pan.

                I use both methods in my kitchen -- well, actually three methods because I use a gas hot plate for risotto and paella -- and I wouldn't dare try the silicone protective pads with anything but the induction, and then only at lower heats. Well, it depends on what kind of metal I'm using. Cast iron is incredibly efficient on induction, and for hot frying I rarely go above a 3 or 4 on a scale of 10. Induction friendly stainless is not nearly as efficient. Paper towels char if I use them with cast iron at a 3 setting with my Max Burton induction hot plate.

                For what it's worth, I also have black granite countertops and island, with my ceramic/glass radiant cooktop built into the island for reasons you give. Mine is around three or four years old now, and no problem with scratching. As long as you clean any burnt oils between cooking (I use a razor blade and Barkeeper's Friend or a ceramic cook top cleaner (more expensive) to keep things sparkling. I just find it's a lot easier to fry and let it spatter, then wipe everything down with plenty of Windex and a few paper towels. MOST black granites don't have to be sealed regularly and the original Windex keeps both my cooktop and my black granite looking like mirrors! I LOVE knowing when things aren't clean! And the same holds true for the induction hotplate. Razor blade, Barkeeper's Friend, and Windex!

                1. re: Caroline1
                  SWISSAIRE Jun 11, 2012 11:15 PM

                  Hello Caroline !

                  I'm in Southern California on business, so I can thus respond back to you easier and a little quicker on your side of the world for two weeks. My compliments to your very sharp eyes !

                  We have two cook-top systems: Three if one counts the BBQ outside, and four if one wanted to count the alcohol rechaud for fondue.

                  The electric radiant system as shown is still functioning, against a wall near the end of our countertop. My wife and I decided that some of our German inox cookware was too expensive to toss and replace, so we came up with an induction hybrid, if you will, on the cooking island. That is where we have the induction cook-top insert, and now do most of our general cooking. The benefit is more central to the dining area, induction fan noise is diminished in the cavity of the cooking island. But no overhead exhaust fan, so one window has to be opened, even in the Winter.

                  What we tried to accomplish is a seamless transition between black ubatuba granite, which is never ever sealed, and the cook-top appliances. To an extent that works, as pans and pots can be slid off and onto the cook-tops and onto granite. Alas the " grill " rectangle shown in the illustration has proven to make a mess when used directly, especially with fish. It runs all over the granite, which then smells, and has to be cleaned out.

                  Gimmick guilty, as charged:

                  We decided to replace our cookware to induction compliant if, and only when an item was worn out or died. We can't afford to do that all at once just for the sake of induction, and I frankly don't suggest people consider that either, given the cost. My wife's beloved wok from IKEA started falling apart, so I gave her a new flat-bottom inox, induction rated wok. That turned out to be much larger than we had before at 44 cm, but she does enjoy it. ( She better at 200 CHF ! ).

                  I also see great minds think alike, besides risotto and paella: I'm loading up on a box of Barkeeper's Friend to pack and take back with me, which is great for keeping inox clean. Saturday I purchased a tube of ceramic abrasive cleaner branded from Sur Le Table, which I also hope provides us with the same sparkling results you have obtained. Wednesday night I 'm heading to Marukai Japanese market, which may have the silicone pads I'm looking for. If they are there fine, if not, . . . well, I tried.

                  I am going to change positions here regarding Induction only cook-tops. At Sur Le Table, I was told about hybrid cook-tops you have in North America, featuring two radiant and two induction grids. What a great idea !

                  That makes much better sense to me, and your are fortunate to have them available in North America. That would allow you to cook with your existing cookware, and save a little from buying new cookware.

                  Not quite clear on "Original Windex" ? Are there windex-lite, windex-zero, or windex-classic brands ?

                  1. re: SWISSAIRE
                    Caroline1 Jun 12, 2012 08:04 AM

                    Windex? <sigh> The "AmericanWay" seems to be cloning every one-named product into a vast array of confusing products under a name brand banner! See:
                    http://www.windex.com/en-US/products/...
                    So, in a word, Yes! Original Windex! Life was sooooo much easier before all of these fractured-personality products raised their confusing heads. Regular Windex works great on my black (basalt) granite countertop AND cooktop, but I would not recommend it without careful testing on a well hidden spot on any other granites. Not all granites are created equal.

                    I made what I now consider a major mistake by staying with the radiant cooktop so I could keep using my collection of copper when I installed my granite countertops a few years ago. If I had known then what I now know from experience, I would have gone with GE's frameless black induction cooktop, had it countersunk into the granite for a smooth close-to-seamless installation, and reverted back to my great grandmother's idea of "modern" pots and pans: ALL unglazed cast iron! It is so incredibly efficient on my Max Burton hot plate, I've had to learn to cook all over again. It's rather similar to going from a standard lava rock gas grill to an infra red gas grill. Jet Assisted Take Off...!!!

                    Are you aware that as well as the electric radiant/induction hybrid cooktop, there is also a gas/induction hybrid? But you don't want to buy an induction anything in the U.S.!!! Induction cooktops/hotplates are cheapest (and most sophisticated) in Japan, but you can't take them out of that country. The next cheapest market is Europe. America is tail end on everything these days, most especially induction. In Asia, you can even buy an on-demand induction water heater. Totally unavailable in the U.S.!

                    Anyway, I'm a rather Kermit shade of envy at your jet setting lifestyle! what fun! Good on you! '-)

                    1. re: Caroline1
                      SWISSAIRE Jun 12, 2012 09:50 AM

                      Thank you for the information.

                      Induction water heating sounds like a dream come true to those with teenagers.

                      We are also 220-240v. so much in North America would not be compatible.

                      1. re: SWISSAIRE
                        Caroline1 Jun 12, 2012 12:09 PM

                        Cycles (50 or 60) MIGHT be more of a problem than voltage. But maybe not. I'm not sure. But both of my wall ovens and my cooktop are 240v, as is my clothes dryer. When I lived in Turkey, then later in Greece, I had transformers for things that needed adapting, so it's not entirely out of the question.

                        1. re: Caroline1
                          SWISSAIRE Jun 12, 2012 02:21 PM

                          That is interesting regarding your oven, cook-top and clothes dryer all being 240v. That explains the industrial sized clothes dryers I've seen here.

                          Not to digress too much, but I believe you are also fortunate, as you can do laundry after 10:00 PM. The usage of fabric softening towels are also banned in most towns, cities, and Cantons. There is more allowed in North America than many regions of Europe.

                          .I do have a few step-up converters for US products that we use at home. (100 to 240v). The wattage demand is high-rated, so each converter has it's own fuse. These are heavy and expensive ( 30 kg & 400 CHF ). So far the appliances continue to work as they should, but when they die off some day that will be the end.

                          1. re: SWISSAIRE
                            Caroline1 Jun 12, 2012 08:34 PM

                            As far as I know, ALL built-in cooktops, wall ovens, and electric stoves in the USA are 220v. We can buy 110v electric hotplates, but they don't produce the higher temperatures of our built-in 220v appliances. But not to worry! I figure that if technology keeps moving in the direction it appears to be, 220v versus 110v will soon become AA versus AAA. But we're not there yet. When I have a power failure, even my bed and toilet stop working, and I have to rush to Walmart to buy dry ice for my freezers!

                            1. re: Caroline1
                              SWISSAIRE Jun 12, 2012 11:26 PM

                              Really ?

                              I sounds as though you either have an electric toilet, or live upstairs where the water supply requires a jockey-pump to keep the water pressure up.

                              No luck on the silicone pads this evening, but the Marukai market was very interesting, and a lot of fun. I had to dash to the City of Gardena ( possible despite the traffic with GPS ) as the store located there closed at 7 PM.

                              This is a large membership market, furniture, and appliance store with a Japanese-Hawaiian emphasis. Nice friendly staff, and very helpful. I did take a membership to buy a few items, and looking at my ID, the store clerk asked where I lived in Sweden, and if I shopped at IKEA. ( Answer: Not quite but close, and Yes). The card will be a nice memento.

                              I discovered a few more knives for the collection. More items now to take home.

                              1. re: SWISSAIRE
                                Caroline1 Jun 15, 2012 10:54 PM

                                The Texass season of power failures and tornadoes is upon me. I had a nice long interesting reply written out to you but a "iccough" power failure hit that was just long enough to make my compute reboot and launch the reply into cyber space. Needless to say, I have been sulking!

                                Hey, the salesgirl gets brownie points for at least figuring out you live in Europe! Geography is not a strong point in the American educational system.

                                I'm amazed you can't get all the silicone mats your heart desires in Switzerland, or not over the border in France. How difficult is mail order shopping in Europe? I suppose that will soon depend on how well/whether the Euro survives all of these crises. But as the USA has said of USA banks, maybe the Euro is too big to fail? Let's hope. For me, now being of an elderly lazy type, I find that doing as much shopping on Amazon.com and carefully choosing items with free shipping is an amazingly effective way to shop. No parking hassles! I can shop nude if the spirit moves me. And no sales tax. I feel fairly confident you wouldn't be able to escape sales tax/VAT anyplace in Europe. But the selection can be mind boggling. It would take days of driving and parking to do that much comparison shopping in brick and mortar stores.

                                Anyway, given the clean design of your kitchen/cooktop, I suspect you would be a lot happier with plenty of Windex and paper towels for cleanup than you would with silicone pads over the induction burners. Ultimately, they will just give you more to clean up and they flop and sag in the dishwasher!

                                My knives are almost all at least 50years old, primarily stainless Sabatier. The newest is a Sabatier fluting knife to replace one I lost years ago and lately found on the web. To my delight, fluting a mushroom is like riding a bicycle! I remembered how. And yes, electric toilet. Toto Neorest 600. Soooooooooooo much more civilized than a bidet! '-)

                                1. re: Caroline1
                                  SWISSAIRE Jun 16, 2012 09:53 AM

                                  Caroline, thank you for your reply. You are spot-on correct.

                                  Switzerland is somewhat unique, not being a member of the EU. ( In hindsight with recent events in Greece, Italia, Espana, that may turn out to be a blessing.) There are treaties we share, but we are left out of any EU favoritism regarding mail, tax, and package post. Consequently, many sellers refuse to send packages to us, as I mentioned to Kaleo here on CH, previously.

                                  I can purchase cookware physically in stores by crossing the frontier into Germany. But buying the same item online, the same store (and EBAY sellers) will refuse to post to us. The common statement is " Not available to Switzerland " or " Unavailable in Switzerland. " Some sellers outright refuse to sell to Swiss citizens given the high rate of exchange recently (in the press regarding car sales ).

                                  So for many years I have used a private posting service in Kontanz (Constance) that receives the item in Germany, who then repackages and posts the item again to us from there. An involved process for just a pot or pan.

                                  The result is a tendency to favour Swiss-made products, or in some cases avoid the product, until one travels, and put off is sometimes later forgotten. Of course, when returning we are also required to pay the Zoll or Customs Tax authorities for additional duties. That duty may be quite stiff and PLUS any tax or VAT we paid in Germany or France, as there is no allowance for that. So it is very complicated at times with online orders. No escape, as you say.

                                  And alas, no luck on the silicone pads for the moment. Still searching.

                                  1. re: SWISSAIRE
                                    r
                                    Ray2 Aug 6, 2013 02:37 PM

                                    Perhaps I misunderstand you. We're in Zug. Been ordering products from Germany, the USA and the UK for 16 years now. Never had a bit of an issue. A good friend in Lugano orders small electronics parts from the USA and China and books from the USA very frequently. Never an issue. My dealings are with Amazon USA and Germany, eBay USA, any number of US based cooks supply houses, a wide assortment of small companies, anyone who wants to conduct business.

                                    Works the other way around as well. A friend in the UK orders his camera equipment in CH. no problems.

                                    While I don't like paying duty, the prices are still below the Swiss distributors cartel pricing and the choice is vast.

                                    1. re: Ray2
                                      SWISSAIRE Aug 7, 2013 05:21 AM

                                      Grüezi Ray-

                                      Ah Zug, Mittel Schweiz. Nice light rain we're having today.

                                      I have not read all your posts as yet, but what is your Fort Lauderdale connection ?

                                      1. re: SWISSAIRE
                                        r
                                        Ray2 Aug 7, 2013 12:05 PM

                                        We split our time between Fort Lauderdale and Zug. Prior to Schengen we would get lost and overstay. I continued to do this for some time but the last few years I got some grumbling and this year I went into the computer on arrival in Zurich. We are also under the impression we are building a home in Italy. However I'm not sure the architect, builder and building officials are under the same impression.

                                        My wife is Swiss and Swedish (EU) and I am American. So early this week we went down to the immigration office and I'll seek residency. We'll do the same thing the other way around.

                                        At least its cooled down.

                                        I'm a ciao person, my wife is the Grüezi one.

                                        1. re: Ray2
                                          SWISSAIRE Aug 7, 2013 03:53 PM

                                          Ciao Ray !

                                          Thank you for the clarification.

                                          Yes, it has indeed cooled down. Your Italian project sounds very familiar to us. I'm sure you are aware that the Italian government has recently hiked council tax by up to 50 per cent for non-residents.

                                          It's also well past Midnight, so I'm going to bed.

                                          Buona notte e sogni d' oro.

                              2. re: Caroline1
                                k
                                kagemusha49 Jun 14, 2012 08:06 AM

                                I think you are correct Caroline. Most of the heavy power drain appliances such as ovens (except for microwave) driers and air conditioners are 220V. That way they draw less current than 110V and that lowers the risk of fire. As for 50 vs 60 Hz (cycles) I think it would have a minor impact - I'm not sure about this as induction specifically works thru cyclic oscillation - but everything I know about physics and electricity tells me that the induction process would still work - just maybe not quite as calibrated.

                                1. re: kagemusha49
                                  Caroline1 Jun 15, 2012 11:06 PM

                                  Actually, I think in most cases in the USA, 220v electricity is brought to the house in the power lines, then stepped down to 110v at the power pole or an underground junction in more modern installations. My son is a master electrician, and I asked him about difficulties with HZ/cycles, and he said it is very important. But I still think he is wrong. But he does do commercial contracting. so maybe at the power levels he works with it is critical. When I lived overseas, the transformers I owned stepped the electricity down from 220v/240v to 110v/120v but did not modify the cyles. My refrigerator and stuff worked just fine, but I did have to change the capstans in my LP record player and in my tape deck. So obviously the cycles aren't all that critical in most things. And to adapt lighting, you just change the bulbs to the new current and maybe need an adapter for the plug. In things that heat, using a 50 cycle electric hotplate with 60 cycle current might overshoot the temperature presets, or even be dangerous(?), but I don't think the reverse would result in anything more than lower heat and longer cooking times. But for induction, it seems logical that if a magnetic field is used to excite ferrous molecules in the pan, the pan is going to get excited at 50 OR 60 HZ. Seems to me....? Or maybe it would melt a silicone mat! '-)

                                  1. re: Caroline1
                                    k
                                    kagemusha49 Jun 16, 2012 10:45 AM

                                    Your tape deck uses what is known as a synchronous motor whose speed is tied directly to the frequency of the a/c cycles. I think you are right that 60Hz would make the induction mechanism run somewhat hotter - probably not enough to cause a problem but ya never know.

                                    1. re: kagemusha49
                                      Caroline1 Jun 16, 2012 12:27 PM

                                      Maybe I wasn't clear... I think 60HZ could make a resistance coil hotplate run hotter if it was designed for 50HZ, but I'm not really convinced it would make a difference with induction hotplates because the ferrous pans are reacting to a magnetic field, and while the entire universe is obviously somehow reactive to magnetic fields (as in electromagnetic force as understood in standard model physics and/or quantum physics), when it comes to induction cook tops, we ain't there yet. I don't think the difference between 50HZ and 60HZ is going to make a discernable difference with my Max Burton hotplate! I think so, anyway. '-)

                                      But overall, my personal experience with induction cooking and clean up says to me that a silicone pad on the induction "hob" is just going to increase the amount of clean up overall. Why complicate it?

                                      1. re: Caroline1
                                        k
                                        kagemusha49 Jun 16, 2012 01:06 PM

                                        Maybe I wasn't clear too. It's not the presence of a magnetic field that makes induction work, it's the fluctuation of a magnetic field. At 60 Hz the magnetic field is fluctuating faster than at 50Hz and I think that makes the currents induced in the metal stronger and the heating process stronger. Not an order of magnitude stronger but about 40% stronger. I agree with you on the cleanup issue - I posted a while ago asking why anyone would want to use a silicone pad.

                                        1. re: kagemusha49
                                          SWISSAIRE Jun 16, 2012 01:35 PM

                                          Doomo Arigato, Kagemusha.

                                          The silicone pads for the induction coils are no longer an issue ( Can't find any to try out anyway ).

                                          The cook-top and surrounding granite will be cleaned with window cleaner. Caroline, I need to notify Suisse Poste, so let me know when can I expect the 20 cases of Windex " Classic. "

                                          1. re: SWISSAIRE
                                            Caroline1 Jun 16, 2012 02:03 PM

                                            LOL! Coming right up! '-)

                                          2. re: kagemusha49
                                            Caroline1 Jun 16, 2012 02:27 PM

                                            40%....???? I might think 4% is possible, but not 40%! From all I've been able to discern by checking out the Japanese all-metal induction units (they're DAMN tight with information!), to get the all-metal induction burners to work as such, they are basically the same kind of induction unit available here but there is a second one of different frequencies that must be turned on simultaneously to broaden the spectrum of what metals react to the magnetic fields. In that mode, the units draw a lot of power, and whether a built-in or a portable induction unit, they don't get pans quite as hot in the all metal mode as they do in ferrous metal mode. Maybe I'm too tired at the moment to think clearly, but it seems to me that there would not be 40% difference, if any, in the efficiency of the same induction portable running on 50 or 60 cycles as long as the voltage is matched in both currents. Am I wrong?

                                            And curiosity.... I'm assuming that kagemusha49 simply means you're an "impersonator," and not that you live in Japan. Am I right? I went to your profile page and you give no personal information, but in your posting history you are most active on the Las Vegas board, a few other stateside boards, general boards and no Japan boards. Am I way off base or right on? Just curious!!!

                                            But just in case you DO live in Japan and know the answers, am I right in what I have been able to piece together about how the Japanese all metal induction works? At this point in my life, I'm hoping I live long enough to own a full surface all metal built in induction cooktop. AND that I win it free in a contest! <sigh> If wishes were horses, beggars would ride! '-)

                                            1. re: Caroline1
                                              tanuki soup Jun 16, 2012 05:39 PM

                                              Hi, Caroline1

                                              Just FYI, all of Japan is 100 V (or 200 W for big things like air conditioners and built-in induction cooktops), but the line frequency varies depending on the region. In western Japan, it's 60 Hz like the US, but in eastern Japan (including Tokyo), it's 50 Hz. A few Japanese appliances have a little switch that you set to either 50 or 60 Hz (or, rarely, two different line frequency versions are sold), but the vast majority are designed to operate at either frequency.

                                              As for the All Metal units (although I'm definitely no expert), my understanding is that induction heating is based on the generation of eddy currents in the metal cooking vessel. The electrical resistance of the pot causes these eddy currents to generate heat. The issue with aluminum and copper cookware is that these materials are much better conductors than stainless steel, so to get sufficient resistive heating, you need to apply a stronger and higher-frequency magnetic field. I've also read that the efficiency of induction cooktops is reduced by about half for aluminum or copper pots.

                                              Hope you find this information helpful.

                                              Tanuki Soup

                                              1. re: tanuki soup
                                                Caroline1 Jun 16, 2012 08:55 PM

                                                Thank you!!! Very useful information! You've helped cut some of the fog. Wonder why I never unearthed this information before now? It not only explains the switches on Japanese induction portables, but also varifies why my cast iron cookware performs so magnificently on induction but my stainless induction-friendly cookware is not nearly as efficient. I think I need to revise my bucket wish list to just wanting a full surface induction cooktop with a full array of 100% iron cookware. Wouldn't THAT be fun! Thanks!

                                              2. re: Caroline1
                                                k
                                                kagemusha49 Jun 16, 2012 06:06 PM

                                                I am indeed a shadow warrior. I've been to Japan and am very proficient with swords but you guess correctly that I am not Japanese. I retract my original statement about a 40% increase in power going from 50Hz to 60Hz - I now think it is more like a 20% increase. As Tanuki Soup indicates the heating of the metal comes from (induced) eddy currents. My belief is that these are proportional to the rate at which the magnetic field moves or changes. For an alternating current this rate of movement is proportional to (among other things) frequency. It's been a long, long time since I studied physics but (aside from hypothesizing multiple universes and many new particles) the basic rules haven't changed since Maxwell.

                                                1. re: kagemusha49
                                                  Caroline1 Jun 16, 2012 09:37 PM

                                                  Thanks for the kind and tolerant answers to this nosy old broad! And, Fella, if you think it's a looooong time since YOU studied physics, well... Aristotle was my physics teacher in junior high! '-)

                                                  To drift back to the topic at hand, I have used my cast iron grill-skillet with the ridges in the bottom of the pan to simulate grill marks on a charcoal grill to char sous vide steaks using my Max Burton induction portable. It didn't take long to decide to revert back to using a blow torch instead for safety reasons. Cast iron on induction can get REALLY hot when you're preheating the empty pan. I don't think I would want a silicone pad between my cast iron and the Max Burton when I do that. Induction friendly stainless steel? Sure. Why not. As long as an empty pan preheat is not required. But even then, I doubt it would get as hot as cast iron, or those kinda pricey pure iron pans that don't rust as easily as cast iron. With induction, you really have to relearn all of your cookware because it's a whole different ball game.

                                                  1. re: Caroline1
                                                    SWISSAIRE Jun 16, 2012 09:56 PM

                                                    My Dear Caroline,

                                                    We have more in common than I had imagined.

                                                    Plato was a classmate of mine.

                                                    We used the finest clay cookware from Attica, over the lowest temperature setting, on a wood-induction cook-top, to braise seasoned lamb to perfection.

                                                    Very efficient: Zero electrical usage whatsoever. Pass the chilled Retsina !

                                                    1. re: SWISSAIRE
                                                      k
                                                      kagemusha49 Jun 16, 2012 10:49 PM

                                                      Ah retsina with ouzo as a depth charge!!

                                                      1. re: kagemusha49
                                                        SWISSAIRE Jun 16, 2012 10:51 PM

                                                        ( !!! )

                                                    2. re: Caroline1
                                                      k
                                                      kagemusha49 Jun 16, 2012 10:55 PM

                                                      Um - my physics teacher was that neanderthal they found frozen in the alps! Yep, cast iron will heat up faster than stainless steel - for various bizarre reasons stainless steel is less ferromagnetic than iron and ferromagnetism (plus resistance) is what drives this whole process in an alternating magnetic field. My neanderthal professor called it magic but I knew what he meant.

                                                      1. re: kagemusha49
                                                        k
                                                        kaleokahu Aug 6, 2013 02:14 PM

                                                        My physics teacher was Pele.

                                          3. re: Caroline1
                                            r
                                            Ray2 Aug 6, 2013 02:46 PM

                                            If the product contains electronics -- as opposed to electrical -- it's either 50/60 cycles or its not going to work except at its rated cycles. Our Miele appliances in the USA include an oven, an induction cooktop, a washer and dryer and a dishwasher. All use electronic controls rated at 60 cycles. They will not work in Europe. Nor will the European models work in the USA.

                                            Yachts, a market Miele is strong in, have expensive systems to deal with the different cycles as they go from country to country and hook into shore power. Not cost effective for a stationary home.

                      2. paulj Mar 17, 2012 09:21 AM

                        I haven't tried silicone, but regularly put paper on the induction cook surface, usually just a sheet of paper towel. Over time it chars and needs to be replaced. The charring occurs fastest if I'm frying or searing something, slowly if just boiling water. So clearly it depends on how hot the bottom of the pan gets.

                        1. r
                          redbeanbun Mar 17, 2012 08:25 AM

                          nevermind. i think i found a better solution to my nuisance problem.

                          2 Replies
                          1. re: redbeanbun
                            mattstolz Mar 17, 2012 08:54 AM

                            im very interested to know what kind of problem you are trying to overcome here

                            1. re: mattstolz
                              r
                              redbeanbun Mar 17, 2012 10:05 AM

                              I guess it's a 2 part problem - too much tilt, not enough friction. I borrowed from paulj's idea and put the portable unit on a half sheet pan over the stove. It's not level so it tilts towards the cook. The pots/pans with long handles will spin until handle comes to the bottom of the slope, which is of course, where I stand. There's not enough friction between the two surfaces and the pan's center of gravity is off because of the handle. Also, the newer enameled cast iron pot slides with the slightest of touch. I thought maybe one of those gridded silicone pot holders would solve my lack of friction problem. After my original post, I was ripping pages out of a catalog when realized if i slipped the rest of the catalog (adjusting for the number of pages needed) under the front feet of the portable induction unit, it would solve my tilt problem.

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