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Grocery Shopping in San Francisco

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OliverB Mar 17, 2012 01:08 AM

Hello,

I'm moving to San Francisco from Montreal this summer and trying to allocate a monthly budget based on living costs and expenses. The only thing that I'm not certain about is the cost of food shopping (not eating out but products for home) and would greatly appreciate your help. Of course this would be based on an average estimated budget...

What would you suggest a "generous" monthly grocery bill would total, if shopping for a single (hungry!!) mouth at mostly local grocery outlets; ie. Bi-Rite Market, North Beach delis, specialty products at the Ferry Building, small scale (non-chain) fruiteries, weekend farmer's markets, and maybe something like Whole Foods as well? I'm 30 years old, like to eat well and fairly healthy, and have a large appetite!

Thanks so much for any feedback and suggestions!!

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  1. Ruth Lafler RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 02:06 AM

    Interesting question. I have no idea how to even begin to answer it! You can, of course, spend a lot of money. I guess it depends on how you shop. Are you the kind of person who goes shopping with an idea in mind of what you're going to buy, and buy it regardless of price, or are you the kind of person who goes shopping with a flexible plan that can be altered based on what's the best buy. How much meat do you eat? Are you a good enough cook to work with less expensive ingredients that require more time and skill or do you rely on a lot of prepared foods? How susceptible are you to the temptation of high-priced extras (fancy jams, condiments, juices, high-end cheeses, confections, etc.). Does your budget include alcohol?

    Farmer's markets vary in their pricing -- the Ferry Plaza farmers market is fabulous, but although there can be reasonable buys if you shop carefully, it can be very expensive. On the other hand, the Alemany farmer's market is much more reasonable, especially if you don't insist on certified organic.

    1 Reply
    1. re: Ruth Lafler
      hill food RE: Ruth Lafler Mar 17, 2012 02:38 AM

      yeah and the places cited can be very pricey indeed. where you live can make a big difference SF proper or not? if proper there are all sorts of odd markets you can hit for this and one 2 blocks away for that. the fun part of SF is that once you make rent the rest is (relatively) easy, if maybe a treasure hunt.

    2. o
      OliverB RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 06:48 AM

      Thanks for the help!

      I'll definitely be living in SF proper and imagine most of my shopping will be done in or around the Mission, North Beach, Ferry Bldg market, etc. I don't necessarily shop with a plan in mind, although my habits will probably differ greatly in SF as opposed to Montreal, where I usually drive to my neighborhood chain grocer and walk out with a full fridge worth of food and prep for around $250. Then weekend side trips to the nearby market for specialty foods, condiments and ingrtedients, as well as boulangeries for specialty breads, patisseries for homemade pastries and treats, etc.

      In SF, I get the sense that I'll be heading to specific destinations for day-to-day shopping with general items in mind. I prefer to shop at standalone butchers, cheeseshops, breadmakers, etc. that specialize in items, rather than general mart-type shopping. I do get tempted by some of those high priced items named above (cheeses, juices, confections, etc) and other unique items as well as interesting seasonal produce.

      I would say that I eat a fair amount of meat, but don't do a lot of heavy meat cooking at home. I'm a fervid carnivore but generally indulge in any kind of meat/game at restaurants or when it comes from other kitchens! I like to buy artisanal sausages and lots of charcuteries and sliced meats and cheeses... I'll cook with duck, veal or rabbit from time to time, though it's more often than not incorporated into some sort pasta dish or paella, etc. It's rare that I'll just prepare a huge slab of meat because it's costly to do so for a single person and not always worth the effort. I barbecue a lot back home, but your city doesn't really seem geared towards that. I haven't seen many apartments with balconies that are suited to barbecuing, so I think that'll be something that I will leave behind to my beloved East Coast and nostalgically look forward to on return visits home.

      I tend to cook a lot of Mediterranean type dishes when preparing food for myself, and usually look to Southern European cuisines for inspiration - Spanish, Italian, Neapolitan, Tuscan, Sicilian, and Greek, etc. I like to eat fresh and farm-to-table whenever possible, which is a big incentive in moving to SF as it seems an inherent part of your city's food culture. I love shellfish and will probably be sourcing a lot of it from the waterfront, although I probably won't do too much cooking with other types of fish as I'll be in a studio or single bedroom and don't appreciate the smell. To be completely honest, I don't really have anything fixed in mind in terms of how I would adapt to food shopping in your city... I imagine there are weeks where I'll splurge on lots of fancy specialty items, preserves, mustards, condiments, high-quality oils... and others where I'll just go for the basics.

      I eat a lot of cereals and breakfast is a big thing for me. I'm also getting more into Indian cooking lately and would like to delve further into Southeast Asian cuisine; possibly taking some classes which will be another topic for discussion on this forum! I don't insist on certified organic and I'm not partial to adhering to any kind of strict or rigid food shopping guidelines... As mentioned, I like to try to eat fresh, healthy and sourced from the highest quality ingredients whenever possible. I will not buy prepared foods at chain grocers, but if I'm feeling lazy, I may opt for frozen or ready made meals from a market stall or specialty supplier that requeires little effort in heating/cooking. Back home in Montreal, that might be a tourtierre or duck filled ravioli, etc. Ocassionally, I'll pick up ready-made soups or other rustic comfort meals like shepherd's pie - again always from homemade sources. I do make soups and salads often; different variations almost every night in fact. And I love sandwiches with cured meats, fresh breads, and cheeses. Usually paired with some sort of simple variance of fresh quality veggies, plants, mushrooms - either seasonal or interesting import... These are the areas where usually where I'll get most carried away with my coin.

      I realize this is all very vague and general, as shopping habits and associated costs can vary wildly, but I'm really just looking for a rough estimate. I'm not looking to be super thrifty or spendy - it may shift ocassionally to either end, but for now I'm just curious about an average monthly budget based on all of the information provided above and factored by relative costs of the different grocers, markets, bakeries, stalls, etc. in your city. None of this is inclusive of booze btw! I'm well acquainted with San Francisco's wineries and liquor stores, hah! I'll draw out a separate budget for alcohol; mostly wine.

      I really appreciate the help!!

      3 Replies
      1. re: OliverB
        Ruth Lafler RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 11:32 AM

        Got an eye on prospective neighborhoods? Because some are better for food shopping than others. Shopping at places like Bi-Rite, Whole Foods and the Ferry Building is probably not something you'll want to do on a regular basis -- that's a good way to go broke! The best food shopping neighborhoods are probably the Mission and the Richmond District.

        Maybe the best thing would be for us to give you an idea of how we shop. For example, I hardly ever go to the supermarket. I shop for produce at a local independent grocer, ethnic (Mexican or Asian) markets, or farmers markets (particularly fruit, because I hate to buy fruit without sampling it first).

        My shelf goods and dairy products tend to come from places like Trader Joe's and Grocery Outlet. Baking supplies and spices I tend to buy from the bulk department at a natural food store (you should look into Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco) or at ethnic markets.

        Meat is the big variable ... sometimes I buy in quantity at Costco, sometimes I buy a single, expensive chop at the fancy butcher, sometimes I hit the Chinese or Mexican butcher. I don't cook a lot of seafood, but again, you probably want to go to an Asian market for that, not the wharf.

        What I spend on groceries fluctuates wildly on a week-to-week basis. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say $350-400 a month -- I'd guess maybe 25 percent more more for a hungry 30-year-old guy. Coming from Montreal, the local produce is going to blow your mind!

        1. re: OliverB
          p
          pauliface RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 11:38 AM

          I have no budget info but I do have some recommendations.

          Like anywhere else, you can find an array of places at different price points for different occasions. I myself never go to Bi-Rite or Whole Foods.

          In the castro, there's a produce place called "Golden Produce" that is well priced and has almost anything I need in terms of fruits and vegetables. Occasionally I'll hit a farmer's market. And if they are missing something, I can often fill in at Safeway across the street.

          For basic meat and fish, Golden Natural Foods (same people as Golden Produce) is a few doors down. Again, well priced and higher quality than safeway.

          My favorite fish place is actually in the east bay. Tokyo Fish Market in Berkeley.
          But closer to home for higher end meat there's Golden Gate Meat in the ferry building (great housemade sausages too). Also, (but pricey) is Bryan's up in laurel village.
          There are some fantastic Russian markets out in the Richmond. European Foods (clement and 29th) has great prepared stuff (stuffed cabbage, pickled watermelon...) and Russian Sodas. New World Deli (geary & 20th) has a ton of great prepared salads, interesting dairy, smoked fish and salamis.

          There are also great Japanese supermarkets. I really like Nijiya in Japantown.

          1. re: pauliface
            Ruth Lafler RE: pauliface Mar 17, 2012 11:41 AM

            I almost mentioned the Russian markets in the Richmond. Love them!

        2. Robert Lauriston RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 01:04 PM

          A CSA box subscription can save you maybe 30% off what you'd pay at farmers markets.

          http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/827371

          The Ferry Plaza market has the highest prices in the Bay Area, there are some vendors that only sell there that make it worth a visit but for regular shopping you can find many of the same vendors elsewhere selling the same stuff for less.

          Similar story for Bi-Rite. They have great stuff but if you're trying to keep to a budget you can often do better elsewhere, such as at Rainbow Grocery. Trader Joe's and Costco have some first-rate products at unbeatable prices.

          North Beach is not a very good neighborhood for food shopping. There's only one deli left, Molinari's, and I think it's more expensive and no better than Lucca's on Valencia. There used to be a good Italian grocery store there but it's gone.

          1 Reply
          1. re: Robert Lauriston
            possumspice RE: Robert Lauriston Mar 20, 2012 09:47 AM

            As someone who lives pretty much right in between Bi-Rite and Rainbow, I've found that the prices are actually pretty comparable (and sometimes even higher at Rainbow!) I was surprised by this, since Rainbow feels more like a Berkeley Bowl and Bi-Rite feels like an upscale Ferry Plaza experience, but my husband pointed it out to me, and sure enough, once I paid closer attention, I realized the prices at Rainbow are pretty much neck and neck with Bi-Rite. The bulk bins at Rainbow are probably cheaper than those types of items (beans, grains, nuts) at Bi-Rite, but fruits, veggies, cheese and dairy are all very similar in price, if not higher. I shop at both fairly regularly and they're great resources, but neither one is going to win any prizes for cheapness.

            I agree that North Beach is not a good place to grocery shop. In addition to the points you make, it's highly inaccessible by public transportation and parking is a nightmare.

          2. t
            tjinsf RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 01:47 PM

            Oliver,
            it depends on where you shop and what you plan on getting. There are far more local food options here than in Montreal and food prices here are higher than in Montreal. The sky can be the limit with some organic local produce or you can get good deal at some markets. I don't think it's unrealistic to spend 400 a month if you are planning on doing local, organic veggies and meat and at your convenience shopping and splurging on all the local yumminess (not including booze) Definitely check out Trader Joe's to stock up on some basics like cereals. You can certainly spend less here especially if you do cook with grains and homemade.

            1. hill food RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 02:32 PM

              since you're going to be around downtown and North Beach and are omnivorous, then definitely check out the wet/live markets on Stockton near Jackson for fish and chicken (there are definitely times to go or not go if you're at all claustrophobic, they get crowded at certain times and days but then that's usually when it's the freshest)

              and talk about fresh, the fish are often still flopping and the chickens were probably still alive that AM

              1. k
                klynne RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 07:31 PM

                Yes, interesting question. I looked back over a few months of card statements out of curiosity, and I would say 400-450 a month for two of us. However, I do not shop at most of the places you mentioned, except the small produce markets, which are wonderful. You can absolutely save on produce and bulk goods (grains, beans,etc.) But the meats you are talking about are going to cost you! I would add the Sunset as a good neighborhood for food shopping.

                3 Replies
                1. re: klynne
                  hill food RE: klynne Mar 17, 2012 08:09 PM

                  klynne - is the 21st and Irving market still with us? I'd get three bags of good vegetables and eggs for the price of one somewhere else when I lived out on 19th.

                  1. re: hill food
                    k
                    klynne RE: hill food Mar 17, 2012 10:03 PM

                    Definitely still there (22nd, I think). That is where I get most of my produce.

                    1. re: klynne
                      hill food RE: klynne Mar 19, 2012 01:52 AM

                      good to know, awesome store. (ok 22nd, I was close...I'd have found it again - BTW never ask me for exact driving directions)

                2. g
                  gnomatic RE: OliverB Mar 17, 2012 11:12 PM

                  I think I spend around $150-200 maximum a month for one person.. a bit lower now since I get most workday lunch & dinners at work. I am from Canada originally, budget wise, I think you will find groceries a bit cheaper here..and bigger variety of produce year round.

                  I live in North Beach, so I do most of my shopping within a walking distance. The deli's here are more like sandwich counters, not where one does their grocery shopping. As other mentioned, the Ferry Building farmer's market is the most expensive, I usually go for there for some things, like Fatted Calf duck confit, Acme bread, cheeses, St. Benoit yogurt, jams, sometimes Marin farm beef.
                  Otherwise I do most of my shopping in Chinatown, fresh asian vegetables, fruits, pork & poultry on Stockton (there is a dedicated poultry shop on Grant). Produce is probably about 1/3 cheaper then elsewhere. There is also City Market on Stockton, old school butcher, I think they are Italian. Wo Chong on (I think) Clay near Stockton for fresh tofu & soy milk.

                  I walk to the Fort Mason farmers market on Sunday mornings for other produce & fruit. If I am really lazy, I go to the tiny North Beach market on Powell at Columbus on Sunday mornings. I like the market at Civic Center on Sundays, big, great variety, price and selection.

                  For the rest of my shopping, I go to Trader Joe's, Safeway, Nijiya (not just for the Japanese foods, but also for organic dry goods, better price then Whole Foods) & Cost Plus world market. Occasionally I trek over to Whole Foods. You can get some good idea of the price by looking at their flyers online.

                  1. o
                    OliverB RE: OliverB Mar 18, 2012 03:53 AM

                    Wow, thanks so everyone for all of the detailed responses and I appreciate hearing all of your shopping habits as it's really helpful! I've compiled a list of all the places mentioned and am really looking forward to checking them out! I'm excited about all of the fresh local and seasonal produce that's not available back home; I imagine I will be spending a lot mor etime int he kitchen and on these forums! Thanks again for all of the feedback. I've estimated approx. $300 based on your own experiences, for my monthly budget, and I guess I'll have a better idea when I'm back in the Bay Area late-June. Can't wait!!

                    1. Robert Lauriston RE: OliverB Mar 18, 2012 11:04 AM

                      $300 could be a bit tight for first-rate meat. You might want to look into the Marin Sun Farms meat club, or drive up to Bud's Custom Meats once a month or so to stock up the freezer.

                      http://www.marinsunfarms.com/join-our...
                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Buds-C...

                      SF butchers with good sourcing:

                      http://www.oliviersbutchery.com
                      http://fattedcalf.com
                      http://www.avedanos.com

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: Robert Lauriston
                        r
                        rubadubgdub RE: Robert Lauriston Mar 19, 2012 12:30 PM

                        A tasty source for lamb only: http://www.sierrafarmslamb.blogspot.com/. They do a nice job of butchering and you are not paying for waste (aka ground meat) when you buy a half or whole lamb.

                        I like MSF a lot but their meat CSA still seems pricey. I get Devil's Gulch pork, Magruder Ranch beef from my meat club and it costs quite a bit less. However, there are logistics in coordinating with the other members and doing the pickups that I haven't costed out. But this is just to say that there are lots of options in the BA for sourcing your food at a price point that makes sense to you. The nice shops are the most convenient but if you're motivated, you can buy closer to the source almost always for less.

                        1. re: rubadubgdub
                          k
                          klynne RE: rubadubgdub Mar 19, 2012 09:22 PM

                          That source for lamb looks great. Similar to grocery store prices, but I bet much better tasting. I am going to have to consider this...

                          1. re: klynne
                            r
                            rubadubgdub RE: klynne Mar 20, 2012 09:56 AM

                            Their lamb does taste great. Keep in mind that you are getting racks for the same $8/lb as the other cuts. That's why buying a half or whole makes $$ sense if you have room or use for it because of the cost averaging.

                      2. r
                        rubadubgdub RE: OliverB Mar 18, 2012 05:16 PM

                        I buy my organic veggies at the farmer's markets almost exclusively. It's hard to imagine spending more than $20/wk on them esp if I keep to what's in season and limit to what I can truly eat (I used to spend more but realized that a certain percentage went to waste bc I eat out a few nights a week). If you shop at Alemany or the Asian/Meximarts you'll spend even less. Tons of stuff for $1/bunch or lb. There are vendors at the Ferry Plaza charging the same as elsewhere, you just have to do a little work to find them: Green Gulch comes to mind by there are others I can't recall by name. I find the Ferry Plaza vendors are a more diverse than the Berkeley/Oakland FMs and really top notch. I buy from a meat club to get around the very high cost of pastured meat. Works out to $5-6/lb and it forces me to try new cuts. You have to commit to min 20 lbs at a time but this takes up less freezer space than most think, probably no more than half. The Asian and Meximarts have large meat sections too. Surprisingly, the meat and seafood sections at Whole Foods are very good and they enforce humane standards on their vendors; they are about the only things I buy from WF and usually on specials. I buy bulk spices/foods from Rainbow, some staples from Trader Joe's, Asian staples from the Asian marts (New May Wah, Nijiya), coffee from indy roasters (Blue Bottle, Four Barrel, etc.), hardly any food from supermarkets except some dried pasta, condiments, milk. Lots of good values in wine here. The point is that you CAN spend as much as you want, but you can also eat very well in the BA for not very much. It costs far more on the East Coast and Midwest for the same quality IMO.

                        2 Replies
                        1. re: rubadubgdub
                          t
                          TenderNob RE: rubadubgdub Mar 19, 2012 11:20 AM

                          If you visit Whole Foods, try their milk. It's cheaper than Safeway and comes from Clover. The house brand, 365, is pretty good, too.

                          1. re: TenderNob
                            Robert Lauriston RE: TenderNob Mar 19, 2012 11:36 AM

                            Trader Joe's cream-top milk is cheaper than Whole Foods and comes from Straus.

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