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Guacamole - Bitter!?

j
jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 12:17 AM

Have made a batch of Guacamole --

Avocado - definitely ripe
Lemon juice
Garlic cloves (maybe a bit too much)
Shallots
Worcestershire sauce
Tomato powder - home-made
Cilantro powder - home-made
Salt (iodized)
Black pepper - fresh ground

Stir-stick blended

Was bitter - quite.

Looked up possible remedies - added a bit of sugar syrup. No help. (Seems 'bitter guacamole' is a general problem)

++

Only hint of 'why' I get is possible interaction of citric acid and the iodine from the salt - but am a chemical engineer and the Iodine is already there in a 'salt compound' form so would taste bitter on its own (the salt) so don't understand the possible reaction with citric acid from the lemon - and don't even see the possibility of a further reaction.

Anyone?

  1. iL Divo Mar 18, 2012 01:48 PM

    " (Seems 'bitter guacamole' is a general problem)"

    Ok, so yesterday I went down to get 2 avocado's from the other house as I wanted to make guac before they turned too ripe.
    So last night, I made it and covered with cling so we could munch on today while doing the taxes.
    I thought it was grand, husband makes a face as I shoveled the first chip laden with guac in his awaiting kisser. I said, 'what?" he says, "does it taste right to you? or is the avocado ok?" I shoveled another chip in my mouth covered in the stuff and said, "no it's rotten" as I'm loving how good it is.

    So, although I liked it, he apparently didn't. Now the last few years, my guacamole has been bitter, not very good, an off putting flavor that I can't put my finger on. Is it the avocado's, the serrano or jalepeno chili I use, the brand of key lime juice, the amount of whatever else I add? I really don't know but in the hundred years since I've been making it, I can honestly say, I'm failing...................it's just not good anymore.............perhaps I'll go online and find a tried and true recipe and make it to see if it's better than mine or if it's bitter.....................let's wish each of us good fortunate in curing this problem.

    4 Replies
    1. re: iL Divo
      Veggo Mar 18, 2012 01:57 PM

      Heavens, you can't make it the night before. Guac should be eaten immediately.

      1. re: Veggo
        r
        ratgirlagogo Mar 18, 2012 02:26 PM

        Veggo is correct. I grew up with avocado trees in the backyard, and we ate them sliced up or in guacamole every day. Guacamole doesn't keep at all, you eat it immediately. Thus there is no need for lemon or lime juice either, since its only purpose is to keep the avocado from turning brown. Avocados, salt, whatever black pepper/chile you prefer for heat, and that's it. I also like chopped fresh tomatoes and (red)onions myself, but it's guacamole even without them. I suspect it's the lemon juice and and maybe the garlic that are making the OP's guacamole bitter. Bitter mashed avocados! Jesus fucking christ! How would that even happen? That's like having creamed butter taste bitter. Rotten, moldy, sour, but bitter?

        1. re: ratgirlagogo
          k
          kengk Mar 18, 2012 02:38 PM

          Got to love a bb where you can type "fuck"and not have it deleted by the bots. I like garlic, salt and lime juice in my guac. Sadly I have no avocado trees in the back yard although I did have one in my windowsill one time.

          1. re: kengk
            hill food Mar 19, 2012 02:19 AM

            yeah when it may have to sit for a few hours citrus is needed to delay the browning, I have grown them (they're really cool - like a cartoon sketch of a plant) but avocadoes do have gender issues when it comes to propagation.

    2. goodhealthgourmet Mar 18, 2012 12:45 PM

      based on personal experience i'm going to say the avocado was to blame. if it was very ripe, there's a good chance that *part* of it was bitter even though some (or most) of it tasted fine - it has happened to me several times.

      3 Replies
      1. re: goodhealthgourmet
        j
        jounipesonen Mar 18, 2012 01:14 PM

        You could be right - I only tasted one of the 5-6 used.

        1. re: jounipesonen
          e
          escondido123 Mar 18, 2012 03:05 PM

          Then I would say that is likely to have been the problem, it only takes one bad oneto spoil the guac.

          1. re: escondido123
            hill food Mar 19, 2012 02:14 AM

            e 123 - one bad 'cado don't spoil the whole bunch girl, Oooh, give it one more try before you give up on guac....

            sorry.. i was coerced.

      2. s
        Saluti Mar 17, 2012 03:59 PM

        Lots of foods can be bitter. I have ruined many a meal with either a bitter zucchini, eggplant, carrot, onion, garlic or most recently, a cucumber. My mother always told me to taste a little bit of each vegetable before I add it to a dish or I might be sorry. I usually remember that tip but sometimes I forget - like with the cucumber. I'm guessing in your case it was either the garlic or the shallot.

        1. m
          Mother of four Mar 17, 2012 03:55 PM

          avocado
          red onion
          garlic
          salt
          pepper
          hot sauce
          tomato
          lemon juice
          Have no idea what Tomato powder or Cilantro powder is. What's wrong with the real stuff?

          5 Replies
          1. re: Mother of four
            j
            jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 06:32 PM

            "Have no idea what Tomato powder or Cilantro powder is. What's wrong with the real stuff?"

            It was the REAL stuff - see above! There's really something to learn there - I did - and have been reaping the benefits for years now.

            1. re: jounipesonen
              m
              Mother of four Mar 18, 2012 12:34 PM

              I understand that you used dried tomatoes, but why not the fresh ones? I have never heard of dried tomato powder used in Guacamole . If it works for you that is fine...just saying!

              1. re: Mother of four
                j
                jounipesonen Mar 18, 2012 01:13 PM

                I was just trying to get some tomato taste on an ad lib basis. Fresh would be good of course too - especially if chunks for texture reasons..

                I'm using powder which I have made myself from VERY select VERY tasty cherry tomatoes - and experience now shows they are yielding a great taste not rivaled by store bought fresh, canned or pastes. (If someone has available some star heirloom tomatoes do air freight me some - just ask for address.)

                1. re: jounipesonen
                  hill food Mar 19, 2012 02:03 AM

                  gotta agree it is sort of the wrong time of year for fresh (good fresh anyway </tomato snob>)

                  1. re: hill food
                    j
                    jounipesonen Mar 19, 2012 02:23 AM

                    I love a great tomato as anyone if not more - just the smell of the leaves brings back wonderful memories of picking from a backyard garden. And to eat it fresh and on its own - (how to find such a regular tomato anymore probably rivals the search for the Holy Grail :-( )

                    After I found this 'trick' of choosing own great cherry tomatoes - drying and powdering - I have been able to add a great tomato taste to various dishes that is beyond cooking fresh, pastes and cans. The concentration is also a key 100g 'fresh' = 5g powder.

                    This is all in reference to dishes with COOKED tomatoes. Give the 'powder' process a try - it's not really all that difficult

                    (And the delicious cherry tomatoes I select are of course great on their own)

          2. Veggo Mar 17, 2012 03:26 PM

            Your recipe is WAAAY too tricked out. Try fork smashed avocado, lime juice, salt. Done. Hot sauce on the side. You have overwhelmed the sweetness of the avocado 10 times over. I used to make the same mistake thinking more is better, but I have since gone the minimalist route a la Mark Bittmann.

            1. hotoynoodle Mar 17, 2012 03:12 PM

              even the freshest raw garlic is simply too sharp for me, and it's not something i would ever use in guac. shallots can have the same problem, but i would say acrid, rather than bitter.

              i just use avocados, lemon or lime juice, tomato, cilantro and plenty of kosher salt. i let it rest a bit too.

              did some of the stem end get in there?

              1. BananaBirkLarsen Mar 17, 2012 03:02 PM

                Could it have been the shallots? I've had raw shallots with a definite edge of bitterness, especially when they are on the older side. Were they sprouting at all? That's the only thing I can think of.

                Those homemade tomato and cilantro powders sound fascinating, by the way. I may have to give them a try myself.

                1. v
                  virtualguthrie Mar 17, 2012 02:43 AM

                  I have to agree with hillfood, there's just too much going on. Guacamole is simple. Avocados are the star here, preferably nice ripe, organic ones (I find organic to be creamier). I usually add lime, a little bit of nice ripe tomato, red onion, fresh chopped cilantro and salt... sometimes a bit of garlic and usually some jalapeno. I've never heard of worcesterchire in guacamole.

                  9 Replies
                  1. re: virtualguthrie
                    j
                    jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 03:16 AM

                    "I've never heard of worcesterchire in guacamole."

                    Saw it in one recipe - had never used it bfr - but was such small dash I never needed to bother.

                    But still only onion (shallot), garlic, lemon, cilantro, tomato - and there was nothing extraordinary about that - but where does the bitterness come from? And it seems to be a common problem with guac from comments I see - but no one says why - and as said - one remedy has been sweetening as a CRP - and that didn't help in this case anyway.

                    1. re: jounipesonen
                      v
                      virtualguthrie Mar 17, 2012 03:27 AM

                      I don't know. I've never had a problem with it coming out bitter. I would taste the avocado and make sure it's to your liking and then use only fresh ingredients and I'm pretty sure it won't come out bitter.

                      1. re: virtualguthrie
                        j
                        jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 03:38 AM

                        That's what's strange - all the ingredients were fine on their own. But as I say - it seems to occur to others too.

                        Maybe will just go back to salsa :-)

                        1. re: jounipesonen
                          v
                          virtualguthrie Mar 17, 2012 01:43 PM

                          I wouldn't give up, just simplify and use fresh ingredients.

                          1. re: virtualguthrie
                            loratliff Mar 17, 2012 04:32 PM

                            Ditto. My Texan father's guac is the best—avocados, onion, jalapeño, tomato, cilantro, garlic, salt and pepper. It doesn't need anything else.

                            But my thoughts to the bitterness: what did you mix it in? I have one metal bowl in particular that is reactive to certain foods; sounds like that good be something here. Or, any chance you got your spices mixed up?

                          2. re: jounipesonen
                            Chris VR Mar 18, 2012 05:58 AM

                            If you want to stick with this recipe, I'd recommend going through the recipe adding only one ingredient at a time, and tasting after every ingredient addition, and see if that pinpoints the problem.

                            1. re: Chris VR
                              j
                              jounipesonen Mar 18, 2012 09:05 AM

                              There was nothing holy about the 'recipe' - it was an amalgam of what I found on the net and in various Mexican cookery books.

                              But you're right - that's what I'll do in the future - add and taste. Easy to do with guac as no heating steps.

                      2. re: virtualguthrie
                        e
                        escondido123 Mar 17, 2012 03:05 PM

                        If I have a really good avocado--especially if it has ripened on the tree--I use just salt and some lime juice for the simplest guac ever....freshly fried tortillas from the local store and I'm in heaven.

                        1. re: virtualguthrie
                          IndyGirl Apr 15, 2012 05:26 PM

                          ITA. I use only lime, salt, and avocado. I don't even use onion or cilantro, although I like those things. I jsut find that they detract from the essentials.

                        2. hill food Mar 17, 2012 12:43 AM

                          I'd go easy or even eliminate some of the ingredients

                          Garlic cloves (maybe a bit too much) - yeah some are good, if you're really worried roast them a little first
                          /Shallots - ehh they taste like a cross between onion and garlic so seem superfluous
                          /Worcestershire sauce - wha? that's a lot of salt right there
                          /Tomato powder - home-made - wha?
                          /Cilantro powder - home-made - sorry fresh chopped leaves and stems or nothing and really it should go in the nearby pico de gallo with the fresh tomato, hot pepper and onion not this (come-lately purist with all the zealous passion of a convert, sorry)
                          /Salt (iodized) - iodized salt is FAR more bitter than sea or kosher - I like salty things but made that mistake once. don't really know how much you'd want to put in ahead, it's always easy to mix that in later to taste esp. in an uncooked paste like guac.

                          IMHO this is a simple thing and while I want really want to go wild, I rein myself in. after the subtractions I suggested, one might swap lime juice for the lemon. (either help the flavor and keep it from turning brown fast)

                          Guacamole ought to be a somewhat bland thing anyway, sort of a soothing thing like a chlorophyllic non-dairy mayo - why I suggest dropping the W sauce, salt and shallots

                          4 Replies
                          1. re: hill food
                            j
                            jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 01:49 AM

                            Garlic cloves (maybe a bit too much) - yeah some are good, if you're really worried roast them a little first

                            roasting - good idea - (weren't green at all)

                            /Shallots - ehh they taste like a cross between onion and garlic so seem superfluous

                            these shallots very mild - no hint of garlic

                            /Worcestershire sauce - wha? that's a lot of salt right there

                            was just a small dash - but yes - could otherwise leave out - but def not a contributor to bitterness

                            /Tomato powder - home-made - wha?

                            marvelous stuff! - I dry great cherry tomatoes - then grind to a powder - been doing for years and MUCH tastier than paste and very easy to use - and keeps wonderfully! - amazed not a commercial product except in very rare places (did get some once from a Calif company - American Spice?)

                            /Cilantro powder - home-made - sorry fresh chopped leaves and stems

                            in this case - self-made has been fantastic - eg - when I add water and make a paste - DAMN close to if I had made a paste of fresh leaves

                            /Salt (iodized) - iodized salt is FAR more bitter than sea or kosher -

                            been doing a lot of 'salt tasting' - from salt pans in France and Slovenia - various Maldons etc - and this salt used is mineral salt (low Na) from Jozo - and have noticed no bitterness over the many years in use

                            Thanks for all the comments - but actually still don't understand where the bitterness is coming from. Must be alchemy in practice :-)

                            1. re: jounipesonen
                              hill food Mar 17, 2012 02:00 AM

                              I stand in awe. you've done one heck of a lot of homework, I am of no help at this point. (but post back when you find the right combination, I'm happy with mine but always like suggestions/tips)

                              and if there isn't a powder method posted yet (yeah I know how to sun-dry, but powder would throw me) please post that as well.

                              1. re: hill food
                                j
                                jounipesonen Mar 17, 2012 02:16 AM

                                Powder thing is fairly simple - choose good tasting cherry/grape/date tomatoes - slice in half - dry in 50$/€ dehydrator - or on pan in low (50C) oven - door open. NOTHING added. Dry to a 'crisp' state but careful they don't get brownish red.

                                Then grind in coffee bean grinder-chopper-meat grinder. Have to be a BIT careful -if any moisture left they can cake up and bind grinder. Could mortar/pestle them a bit first to help on any problem there.

                                You can choose the tastiest fresh tomatoes (usually the 'small' species can anyhow be the tastiest) - put in a jar or two - and just use by the spoonful into whatever. When you make sure they are really dry - they will just keep and keep - that is if you don't use them too quickly :-)

                                And the dried halves make GREAT taste treats for kids - I have 2 grandkids that literally jump up and down when they get their 'tomato candy' - and hardly anything can be healthier!

                                1. re: jounipesonen
                                  hill food Mar 17, 2012 02:51 PM

                                  sounds good, will try this summer

                          2. TeRReT Mar 17, 2012 12:21 AM

                            If the garlic had a green center that can be bitter, I often remove the core of garlic for this very reason. But that doesn't necessarily mean it was the problem, just could contribute.

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