A few specific questions about œufmayonaise, bœuf tartare, huîtres, le Baron Rouge, Le Quincy and marche d'alilgre/beauvau
Hello hounds,
I am putting together an itinerary for my Dream Trip to Paris for two weeks + in June. Thanks for all your existing posts, and for replying to my previous ones as I put my toe in the water....
Some specific questions, before I put the whole list out for help in fine tuning...
- œufmayonaise - can someone describe this dish, and name a place that does it well?
- oysters - should I avoid oysters in June, or should I seek them, since I have never had Cancale, or Gillardeau oysters?
- steak tartare - I'm going crazy with this....I need one, a great one, in this trip. I have the board recs (for reasons my own, I am passing on Chez Dumonet and Chez Denise this trip) and keep coming back to Les Fines Gueules. Their location, emphasis on Desnoyer, and acceptability of getting just the tartare and glass of wine for lunch, attracts me, but certain unmentionable experiences and the mention of pesto detract. Can someone describe LFG's tartare? I love good beef, I don't think worcestershire or ketchup are needed, I like good mustard and cornichons in moderation - and I can see how pesto may or may not enhance the dish, but .... is it mixed in? On the side? Strong? Mellow?
- Le Baron Rouge - I love everything I read about this place, except them giving David Lebovitz some ribbing. I will be alone, a middle aged American woman (with panache, mind you!), but I wonder if this might make me uncomfortable... if my hubby was with me I wouldn't give it a second thought, but alone... I don't have even passable French, just a willingness to try.
- Le Quincy - another place where what I read is enthralling, but I'm not sure I would like to have a big "to-do" by myself (much prefer the MFK Fisher approach to solo dining), and the only other thing in the area calling my name is LBR. So, should I do LBR for early lunch, walk around the 12th and do LQ for dinner, or might I let these go until the next time....whenever that may be?
- CONFUSED about the Marche D'Aligre. Is it also referred to as Beauvau? Are they two different markets, at the same place?
Thanks hounds - I'm the kind of traveler and eater that does a lot of pre-planning, both for destination places and to make sure that I avoid mediocrity and worse. Looking forward to responses, and SO excited for my trip.
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Been there twice this trip and BR is still the most fun place to hang out in Paris on a Sunday afternoon. Don't miss the Loire rose. It is perfect with both the charcutrie and the fromage and it's good enough to guzzle! We always wind up getting a second pot for the two of us.
Don't miss Dan les Landes either. Food is terrific the Irouleguy Blanc and Rouge are a treat. Open every day. The waiters were efficient but they did nothing for me ;). The two charming servers at Verjus on the other hand .....................
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Delucacheesemonger
Mar 5, 2012 12:45 PM
This January l compared 6 Speciales from Cancale and 6 Gillardeau of the same size, all # 2's. l found them to be identical in flavor except the Gillardeau to be at least one size larger in the oyster itself, for me almost a little too fleshy. Will stick with the #2's at Pleine Mer and be very happy. Trying Gulf of Mexico oysters tonight in Florida, await to see how they hold up. Use Aligre for all my vegetables, lucky to have as my local market. Last time at Quincy there was a money mixup that seemed too convenient for the restaurant and as the chef of 3-4 years left the recipes are not quite the same either, thus off my list as nice as nice as Bobosse might be.
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re: Delucacheesemonger
Parigi
Mar 5, 2012 01:09 PM
I am faithful to Gillardeau for its slightly sweet note that balances the saltiness nicely. But again, we are comparing A's and A plusses here.
Petit-bourgeoise me, I can't help but expect something that is double the price to taste doubly as good. And GIllardeau is not doubly as good as those cancale babies. -
re: Delucacheesemonger
DCM - I have, I'm afraid, too much experience with Gulf oysters...if fleshy is not your thing, you may want to mention that, if you are in the kind of place where such a mention would be taken well. I have been served Gulf oysters that were too large for one bite. I have one place that I serves Gulf oysters I enjoy, mostly due to the freshness and my fundamental need to eat fresh oysters without breaking the bank. I cannot WAIT to compare As and A plusses!
LQ is off the list, although I know in years to come when hounds are sharing their fond memories of Bobosse, that I will feel a twinge of regret...
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re: saticoy
Understand what conjures up with St. Quentin reference as I too am a native and current Northern Californian but the market in Paris sounds fab. Saticoy was wondering what your trepidation/fear of going solo to LBR is all about. As Jock said pretty darn convivial. Places I would not want to dine/eat/drink solo in Paris are numerous and in Nor Cal would not want to be solo in The Q.
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re: mick
Mick - I read David Lebovitz blog ...he said not to get discouraged by the crowds (so of course I got discouraged) and that it can feel like an "insiders only" club because of so many regulars (hate to stick out in a small place). He said they might not be patient at the counter, but that they are quick with a joke...only I'm sure I wouldn't get the joke. I have no doubt that I am making more of it than I should, but there it is. I'm getting over it - it is on the list!
When I post my list, I hope you will weigh in if I have chosen one that you would not want to be at solo!
Yeesh - solo at the Nor Cal Q? No thanks!
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re: saticoy
Understood, I have been going to LBR for years but haven't been since 2005. Wow, hard to believe myself. Anyway, never experienced anything like David Lebovitz. Although, it obviously had regulars every time I would go, I suspect that it has become more popular, written up about in the last decade. As I've said have been many times, different days of the week and times of the year and have always had a great time. Interested to see myself if there seems to be a change since I last visited in 05.
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re: mick
sistereurope
Mar 5, 2012 04:56 PM
We have been to Le Baron Rouge several times, most recently in January of this year....always on a Sunday, with the crowds. Maybe we've just been lucky but we've always had wonderful experiences there. They oysters, while not the most fabulous I've ever had (in Paris or elsewhere) were still very very good, and the atmosphere/ambiance memorable. This past time we met a young French boy and his girlfriend from Berlin and had a fun long conversation about American politics :). And our table-mates shared their charcuterie platter with us. Same thing happened several years ago...we met the nicest people. As they say in the internets, YMMV (which I never understood until a kind soul told me that it was your mileage may vary ). But I plan to return in May, even if it isn't an R mois...
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re: saticoy
mangeur
Mar 5, 2012 06:52 PM
I just re-read David's LBR blog post and really don't see anything discouraging about it. It's the same as markets or patisseries or anyplace that people que up to order. You will get excellent attention as long as you have your question posed. Try to read any chalkboards before your turn comes up. In fact, I don't get in que until I have a plan of what I'm going to order or ask about. Do you want to drink white or red? Dry or off dry? Do you want to try natural or bio wines? Particular areas? Bartenders and waiters are there to and want to help, but they aren't mind readers and are under pressure from all those people behind you. When your turn comes, just be ready to help them help you. Think about what you want to experience and put it into words, bad French is fine, simple English if you insist. All this IMHO....
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re: mangeur
Let me, belatedly, thank you for this post....and also the one where you shared the article about how to "behave" at a neighborhood bistro. I want to be a good chowhound on this trip, and that takes more than just menu research. I think a first time trip to Paris as a chowhound (with a wide panoply of international interests) is challenging.
I have thought so much about this post....this will really be my first time in Paris, I have a couple of good apps for language, I have chowhound for direction.... before I started researching, "bio wines" meant nothing to me. Being prepared to order the way you describe seems ... ha ha ha .... foreign.
The upshot for me is, I can't be an experienced hound in Paris without first experiencing Paris. AND I need to experience Paris with the parameters that are ME...discomfort at a party (LBR) where I am alone and don't know anyone...limited knowledge of French wines ...inability to read the ardoise quickly....
I even concocted a scheme for Dans Le Landes where I would stop in at opening, make a reservation and take a photo of the ardoise, scurry off to whatever I wanted to do in the 5th, study and translate until I had a happy reckoning of what I might want to order.
Aiming for French that is better than bad, excited to learn, praying for patient front of house staff...and less than 8 weeks out.
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re: saticoy
mangeur
Apr 15, 2012 06:37 PM
Oh, no! Please don't be put off or freaked out. As I wrote, waiters really are there to help you. What I wanted to, but apparently badly said, was to try to think about what you want to drink and eat. They will help you.
The only people who get in trouble at restaurants are those who try to show how much they already know, and in the process only show how little they know. Just be yourself and ask for the help you need. Having some idea of what you might want helps.
Enjoy!
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re: saticoy
Parigi
Apr 16, 2012 12:15 AM
You may be imagining too much. Paris is not entrance exam to the MIT !
"I even concocted a scheme for Dans Le Landes where I would stop in at opening, make a reservation and take a photo of the ardoise, scurry off to whatever I wanted to do in the 5th, study and translate until I had a happy reckoning of what I might want to order."
The waiters there are very helpful and speak English (and are gorgeous). My fave dishes are: bulots, coeur de canard, cipirones, filets de caille, caesar'sslad, broccoli, panisse (a kind of sud-ouest riff of the socca in Nice). If you are also interested in these dishes but don't see them on the menu, don't hesitate to ask the nice waiters. The resto changes menu often and does a little variation on its classics.
And more than once, we look around our communal table and consult other diners and order what looks good on their plates, especially with dessert. Those are the times when we had the best food in Dans Les Landes.-
re: Parigi
This may elicit my first ever text indication of LOL! Yes, I may be approaching this research with the same intensity of a grad school / grant application. Usually pays off, though! Merci beaucoup for the recommendations of things to order at Dans Le Landes...the extra fun part is looking them up and daydreaming about them.....
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re: saticoy
Don't over think things. Mangeur gives the best advice anyone could give in that regard. "The only people who get in trouble at restaurants are those who try to show how much they already know, and in the process only show how little they know. Just be yourself and ask for the help you need."
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re: saticoy
Das Ubergeek
Apr 16, 2012 08:36 AM
Ne vous en faites pas (don't worry about it). The advice from mangeur is very good, and I would add this: when it is your turn at the counter, it is YOUR turn. French people wouldn't think of interrupting you and pushing to the counter (this is not New York!).
So don't worry about it. Greet people when you walk in (most people sort of slur this as "b'jour m'sieu-dames"), take your time in line, don't worry about bad French, and when you get to the counter, prenez vos temps—take your time!
Ask questions. I can't go to a butcher shop, for example, without getting a cooking lesson and half the time I get specific instructions about where to go for bread, vegetables, etc. to cook the recipe in question. Yes, there will be people behind you but frankly they are behind you and as long as you're not making idle conversation to hold up other people on purpose, don't worry about them.
Ne vous en faites pas !
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re: saticoy
Melanie Wong
Apr 16, 2012 12:06 AM
My dear saticoy, I'm glad this thread got bumped up again for me to add my 2 centimes. I was at the market on Sunday and Le Baron Rouge three weeks ago. The place was so crazy busy, no one sticks out, regulars or not. Please don't be discouraged. Should you feel like you don't fit in, then you can take your wine and oysters to the park down the block. Many do, as well as taking over the sidewalks and nearby parked cars.
I was astounded by the crowds. My friend goes there almost every Sunday in conjunction with shopping at the market, and he said this was a typical day. Besides oysters, we drank glasses of Petit Chablis, Aligote', and Sancerre. Also tried the monkfish liver "rillettes". The liver itself was fine but the smoked bacon and the gelatin were unbearably salty. Not the greatest oysters I've ever had, I was surprised that they were on the soft side for an "r" month, but they turned out to be the only oysters I had this trip as I fell ill that evening, ending my eating adventures in Paris. I was glad I had a chance to be part of the scene at Le Baron Rouge.
The photos show the people who waited on us outside and inside. When I wasn't ready to order the first glass of wine yet, the barkeep just went on to the next person and then came back to me. Here's the video I made of the crush of people at LBR. The guy who was shucking the oysters mugged for the camera. Not scary at all.
http://youtu.be/NFDrAD4EDeE
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re: Melanie Wong
Melanie - thank you so much for sharing this video! I cannot believe you fell ill, what a tragedy. Monkfish rillettes!? Sad to hear about the salt factor, but absolutely going to try a porky French "ankimo", and hope I get a better batch than you did. The oyster guy was hilarious, and the size of the crowd feels more like a public fair/market than an insiders event....the video related what so many hounds told me already. Glad also to be armed with some good wine choices at LBR!
Intersting CH harmonic convergence - I watched the video while eating a char siu bau from Cafe Bakery....dutifully lugged from SF to Austin by my mom (along with a whole suitcase full of yum)...I was enjoying the "winey notes" you mentioned in an older review...
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Oysters are just fine in June but a little harder to find.
Tartare is just ok at LFG but IMO not particularly better than most other places that offer it and not good enough to make me want to return since that is the only positive about the place. The tartare is cut coarser than most. My favorite tartare in Paris is at a tiny place on Blvd Grenelle called Thai Pacific.
You will be just fine at the Baron Rouge. Stand at the round barrel table in the front and you will almost instantly have some new and interesting new friends from who knows where. If you have the chance you should also try Dans les Landes. DLL has much more food choices than BR (only cheese and charcuterie) but as a single you will enjoy BR more and the markets around the corner are worth seeing.
›18 Replies-
re: jock
Arrrggghhh....LBR back on the list....sounds like such a singular experience!
I wish there was a ranking of steak tartare like the egg mayonnaise one...
Can you expand on what you didn't like about LFG?
When I cross the city to blvd Grenelle, I will look out for Thai Pacific, although I will be aiming for Au Dernier Metro that day!
DLL now on the list, merci to you and Parigi for that!
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re: saticoy
mangeur
Mar 5, 2012 09:04 AM
This compendium is enough to confuse you, or anyone! http://parissteaktartare.blogspot.com/
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re: jock
This may not be the chowhoundiest of comments, but I think I might need to have a good to great steak tartare in a charming bistro focusing on French food and wine.
Since my plan was to pop over to LFG for lunch while spending the day at the Louvre, and specifically to have the tartare, maybe I will do OK .... When I post my itinerary, maybe you and others can chime in about this dish at one of those places....please?!
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re: saticoy
Definitely do not miss wandering the Aligre market and stopping by LBR afterwards. Both great fun and you will be absolutely fine at LBR. I think the market is open everyday except Monday. To me Sunday is the best but also the most crowded.
I love beouf tartare and agree that the description of the tartare at LFG doesn't sound that appealing with pesto, but I'm going to give it a try when I'm in Paris in June.
The tartare at Au Petit Fer a Cheval in the Marais is excellent and classic. I like hanging there anyway, but will be trying tartare at a number of places this time.
Good luck!
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re: saticoy
Parigi
Mar 5, 2012 11:40 AM
Paris has one or two or three good markets in nearly every arrondissement (ok, not the 8th). You really do not have to schlep cross town to visit another market, esp when you are in the 10th, in short, market heaven. But if you are staying a few weeks, other arrondissements' markets - like the Aligre - are indeed a delight to explore.
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re: Parigi
I plan to LIVE at the marche St. Quentin, and I have to visit Enfants Rouge. I was planning to visit the Grenelle market when I make my pilgrimage to Au Dernier Metro, so yeah - didn't think I needed to stack up another market. BUT, if Le Baron Rouge is that great of an experience (and it sounds as if it is!), I can stand wandering one more market (I will force myself to bear the burden...hand to forehead...) nearby. Since I have weird trepidation about doing LBR solo, I may leave this combo to the "if I have time, energy, and feel like it" list....
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re: saticoy
Seriously, LBR solo is no big deal. However, Saticoy I have a question. I always go to Aligre in great part because I enjoy LBR year round. So, if I were to go this time to another market what would you suggest. I was thinking between Place Monge in the 5th, St-Quentin in the 10th or the Bastille market in the 11th? Do you or anyone no pros/cons to these? I've researched But,,,,,
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re: Parigi
Parigi: you say the hood near the Place Monge is nice, which brings me to a question. Of the 3 markets you referenced, which one has the best "hood" to duct out of the market and go enjoy casual cafe's/wine bars and in general a good neighborhood vibe? Does one stand out over another for combining the market with an area to walk and enjoy afterwards?
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re: mick
Parigi
Mar 5, 2012 01:06 PM
aligre is in the Bastille and may have the best concentration of 'hood wine bars.
St Quentin has "Pleine Mer" next door where you get great oysterse and a nice white.
Place Monge is right next to rue Mouffetard, you know, Hemingway' Movable Feast.
So, for pure market, I would pick st Quentin. For a post-market wine bar crawl, probably Aligre/Bastille.
But we're comparing A's and A plusses here...
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re: saticoy
If you have to skip a market, I have been to most of them and Grenelle is very near the bottom. It is big but that's about it.
St Quentin is among the best. Enfants Rouge is very small and won't take more than a few minutes. Inside ER is l'Estaminet. Assuming it is still there you can get a good but simple "working man's lunch.'
Can't think of a more convivial place to go solo than LBR.
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re: jock
OK - good to know about Enfants Rouge. Thrilled to be a stone's throw from St. Quentin - although as a native Northern Californian it still conjures a prison when I write it!
Grenelle is mostly an addendum to a pilgrimage to Au Dernier Metro...for some reason I am obsessed with that place.
LBR is firmly on the list. I will lose this irrational trepidation and make it a destination, irrespective of markets or other sightseeing.
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just googled and found that
(article in in french, with a list)
http://www.lefigaro.fr/scope/articles-restaurants/2008/10/10/08004-20081010ARTFIG00627-les-meilleurs-oeufs-mayo-de-paris-.phpRestaurant list : http://www.lefigaro.fr/medias/2008/10...
›3 Replies-
re: Maximilien
mangeur
Mar 5, 2012 07:23 AM
Oeuf mayonnaise has long been a "give away" specialty of Le Voltaire, the price held at €,90 for decades. It has now risen slightly higher to something around €3, as I remember. But realize that at this price and at this level restaurant, it must be ordered as a starter, not alone.
I would mention that were I dining alone in Paris, and if my wallet were full, I would take myself to Le Voltaire for dinner. I would order simply: aperitif, the oeuf, lamb chops and green beans, a red Burgundy and maybe dessert. Coffee.
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re: Maximilien
Thanks for this!!! Looks like oeuf mayonnaise at Le Voltaire will be on my list for museum days. This dish seems tailor-made for hounds that want a quintessential bistro dish that is affordable for almost any budget. The ranking of Chartier is interesting...think they make their own mayo? That article reminded me that harengs pomme a l'huile is a dish I will be seeking also.
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mangeur
Mar 5, 2012 06:34 AM
This is a lukewarm rec because I didn't eat it, and, worse, have no experience with this dish in France. However, when I was in Paris with my starving and cranky son and d-i-l who were looking for the perfect lunch spot on Mouffetard...at 1:15pm, I finally literally dragged them into Le Jardin d'Artimis when I saw a foursome leave a window table. What we ordered was quite acceptable, and a god-send under the circumstances. But I lusted for the plates that were flying past me: oblong platters of greens topped with oeuf mayonnaise. I asked about them, and they were €4,95. Many tables were ordering just that per person.
Some bread and a little wine and you are in business. Coffee, and you have room for dessert or for ice cream up the block.
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Parigi
Mar 5, 2012 12:10 AM
"- œufmayonaise - can someone describe this dish, and name a place that does it well?"
It is hard boiled egg + mayo.
Nobody does it well and nobody blows it either. I have not heard of another restaurant that makes it a signature dish."oysters - should I avoid oysters in June, or should I seek them, since I have never had Cancale, or Gillardeau oysters?"
Don't avoid. Seek.
"steak tartare - I'm going crazy with this....I need one, a great one, in this trip. I have the board recs (for reasons my own, I am passing on Chez Dumonet and Chez Denise this trip) and keep coming back to Les Fines Gueules. Their location, emphasis on Desnoyer, and acceptability of getting just the tartare and glass of wine for lunch, attracts me, but certain unmentionable experiences and the mention of pesto detract. Can someone describe LFG's tartare?"
Laidback and I had it there. It was very well seasoned and not spicy-seasoned. I have two complaints about it: 1. It was cut a bit thick; 2. Well, this board won't let me mention problem n°2.
But Laidback liked it so much that he forgave the resto and went back shortly after !Dining alone. It is not a problem in Paris. However you may like the kind of resto that has a counter, and specify you want a seat au comptoir when you reserve. Here are some very good restaurants that have counter seats:
In both Saturne and Spring, the counter has a view to the kitchen. I love to sit there and watch the action.
Dans Les Landes has both counter seats and a "table communale". Great for solo dining."Le Quincy"
I have not had outstanding meals there the last two times I went, and found the prices higher than they should be. But Bobosse does take good care of solo diners.
"CONFUSED about the Marche D'Aligre. Is it also referred to as Beauvau? Are they two different markets, at the same place?"
It is the same food shop area. Marché Beauvau is a covered market. Rue d'Aligre is a street right next to it that has open-air market stalls on market days.
›3 Replies-
re: Parigi
Thank you again! I will roll the dice on the tartare at LFG...I think I will skip Le Quincy and Le Baron Rouge and the Aligre markets... I have 3 other markets on my itinerary....glad to have the solo dining recs, and the terminology to request a counter seat. I have Pleine Mer around the corner, and will seek other oysters without reservation!
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re: Parigi
Das Ubergeek
Mar 5, 2012 08:31 AM
Parigi's advice about dining alone is excellent. Also, when you make your reservations, you can tell them you are dining alone and don't mind being put at the bar or at a communal table. If you put it as though you are trying to save the restaurant trouble, you'll find you get treated better. "Je serais très bien au comptoir, si ça vous éviterait des ennuis ..."
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re: Parigi
PhilD
Mar 5, 2012 02:48 PM
""- œufmayonaise - can someone describe this dish, and name a place that does it well?"
It is hard boiled egg + mayo.
Nobody does it well and nobody blows it either. I have not heard of another restaurant that makes it a signature dish."I always understood that this was a benchmark dish for a traditional bistro, the simple egg mayonnaise being the indication of the underlying qualities of the kitchen, and there was much heated debate about whose was best. Has this tradition faded?
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