1200 grit whetstone- too slow..

[achilles007]

Any recomendations for a lower grit stone?

This 1200 one is killing me. I just dont have the patience

Does 800 grit sound good? Or should I go lower, since I already have a 1200 stone?
can only afford one more stone in the budget.

[knifesavers]

How bad off is the knife?

For major metal removal, reforming broken tips, severe chips and the like, I'll use a belt sander with an 80 or 120 grit belt to fix them and create an initial bevel. Heat buildup is a huge concern so a pass on a sander needs to be very quick.

I have a 220/1000 King combo in the stones pile but seldom use the 220 side. A 1000 or 1200 is great for upkeep and minor resharpening. I start with that in some cases but with big metal problems the big guns come out.

Jim

[cowboyardee]

There was a thread a few days ago about coarse stones.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/830892
Most of the best stones in the 200-600 range are mentioned there. A lot of coarse stones can be sort of frustrating in terms of how quickly they wear away and dish.

I use an 800 grit king stone quite a bit, but it's not my go-to stone for removing a lot of metal fast. That would be the bester 500, which is markedly faster. Feels like you're sharpening on a cinder block, but it gets the job done, transitions well enough to a stone in the 1200 grit range, and lasts a long time.

A belt sander is a very fast way to remove metal, but I wouldn't recommend one (no offense, knifesavers) unless at least one of the following conditions apply (two is much better):
- you have someone experienced to carefully teach you how to use it
- you have A LOT of experience hand sharpening on stones
- you have a few cheap knives you wouldn't mind ruining or at least scuffing up as you get the hang of it

What's your 1200 grit stone, btw?

[knifesavers]

No offense taken CBD. Just using the example of how trashed blades can need aggressive action.

Your bottom points are right on target. You need to know how the sharpening process works from lots of hand use to step up to a machine and even then there is a learning curve.

Jim

[Eiron]

A little more descriptive information would be helpful. With your brief comments, I'd say something in the 200-500 grit range might suit your need for speed. But it's really just a shot in the dark.

Specifically, it would help to know:
1) What knife are you sharpening? (shape/style, brand, material, hardness)
2) What's the edge starting condition? (beat-up, chipped, dull, poor, kinda sharp)
3) What are you trying to do with it? (reprofile, new angle, change bevel)
4) How long does it take to kill you? (how long is each session on the stone)
5) How many times have you used this 1200 stone?
6) What sharpening techniques are you following?
7) How long have you been practicing sharpening?

There are other questions to ask to help you achieve good results, but these are some of the basic ones to start with. Once we have a little more detail, it will be easier to help you succeed.

[scubadoo97]

agreed, more info would be helpful.

Decreasing the angle on a knife as well as thinning can be time consuming.
Just sharpening at the same angle and removing micro chips shouldn't take much time at all.

I start most of my resharpening sessions with a 1000g Shapton Glass Stone and finish with maybe a 4k or 8k glass stone before stropping.

My 220g and 500g glass stones are aggressive enough and the best part is they need no soaking and wear very slowly

[achilles007]

I'm sorry. I have a set of chicago cutlery knives... from my father...

As well as a newly purchased Victorinox curved boning knife.

The stone I am using is a suehiro japanese whetstone that Chemicalkinetics or cowboyardee recommended to me in another thread. The edge condition of the Chicago cutlery knives are sort of on the dull side, but still functional. The forschnere is brand n ew.

As far as what I'm trying to do-- I'm not really sure what to say other than just sharpening it. Sorry I dont understand any of those other terms.

It took me an hour and a half on 3 knives, in which after I was through i saw no difference in the knive's performance afterwards.

It was my first time using the 1200 stone using the "Sharpie" method-- which was frustrating as I couldnt tell if the mark was disappearing because of the water washing it off the edge or whether or not I was hitting the edge correctly.

And that was my first time practicing.

[eethan]

If it was your first time freehand, you may want to try again, being very deliberate in your motions. When people make the videos you can find on youtube, they tend to be quite practised, and they move more quickly than you may be able to, whilst maintaining your angle and pressure, at first. The first time I tried sharpening, I think it took me about 2 hours for two knives, since I didn't have a feel for things. Of course, a lower-grit stone will allow you to get feedback for how you're doing more quickly.

Also, I've never tried the marker method, but I guess that a Sharpie may not be the best one to use. I think some of the other permanent marker brands use ink that is more water-resistant.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"It took me an hour and a half on 3 knives, in which after I was through i saw no difference in the knive's performance afterwards. "

Something is wrong. If you are talking about a very dull knife, maybe, but as you have said, the Victorinox is very new. It should take you about 1-2 minutes, and definitely no more than 5 minutes.

"I couldnt tell if the mark was disappearing because of the water washing it off the edge"

It is not that easy to wash off Sharpie marks with water. Otherwise, your mom would have never yelled at you for Sharpie mark on your clothings.

"And that was my first time practicing."

I would practice on the knives which you don't care. I have a feeling that 1.5 hours on three knives... you may be grinding more metal off then you want.

[Eiron]

achilles007, no apology necessary. I understand how frustrating this can be when so many of us claim "it's easy!!"

Others are directing down the right path, so I won't try to add too much here. My first thought is to leave the Forschner alone for right now. (Did you get the Fibrox or Rosewood version?) The curved shape & angled exit from the handle present additional complications to someone just learning how to freehand sharpen, & you don't need that.

Make sure your Sharpie brand marker says "permanent marker" on it. If it does, then you might want to look for one of Sharpie brand's "industrial ink" models, as they should survive any amount of water. Oh, & make sure the knife edge is free of any grease or oil, otherwise the ink will only be sitting on top of that & will still wash away.

I'd recommend concentrating on just a single knife first. Changing knives means working with/on different blade shapes/profiles, which means holding them in slightly different positions, & that can be frustrating if you're not used to doing this. Even working around the curved end of one knife is going to be a challenge at first!

Try to stay relaxed about the whole process. I know it's frustrating; we've all been there! Getting upset that it's not going as fast as you expect will only make things harder. Taking the time now to get a feel for the process will make you much, much quicker in a (relatively) short period of time. We'll help you as much as you can stand. :-)

[Chemicalkinetics]

It depends what you want to . 800 grit certainly will be faster than 1200 grit, but you can probably go lower to 500 grit. In addition, different steels can be quiet different too.

[achilles007]

I know some of my responses on here may get strange looks. But I guess, I'm just a little bit too impatient. Or maybe I dont understand the knife sharpneing process... If I had the money I would just plunker down the 300 dollars for the EP and have at it, but things are tight. *sigh*

[Chemicalkinetics]

Do you have a knife which you don't care much? Practice on it.

Now, I have a few questions for you.
1) When you sharpen your knives, have you able to feel the burr?

http://www.upon-bamboo-fly-fishing-rods-and-reels.com/images/Burr.jpg

Once you created a burr, it means you have allowed the two sides meet. At this point, you are half way done. If you could not feel a burr, then we have a problem and we need to figure why

2) Assuming you have created a burr, did you then grind the knife edge on both sides using the 1200 grit stone? Did you sharpening it equally to the point that you cannot feel the burr? After that, you can do a fine burr removal. You have to remove the tiny burr to make the knife edge sharp. There are several ways to remove the burr.

You can try to remove the burr using the stone itself as Mark Richmond shows here:
http://youtu.be/7JAXyTtGShg?t=6m11s

You can try to do it with any leather belt as Thomas Stuckey does:
http://youtu.be/une4Zp75gWU?t=42s

This is another very popular method:
http://youtu.be/mLqditvI6MI?t=1m5s

[Eiron]

So, achilles007, since it's been a couple of weeks, where did you end up in this whole process?