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Recommend a 30" gas cooktop

Moving into a new house that has an old electric cooktop, the one with the spirals and a ventilation system in the middle of it (surface-level). So now I want to replace it with a gas cooktop and probably a hood ventilation system.

My budget for a gas cooktop is around the vicinity of $1200. I might even say yes to a few hundred bucks more if what I get is considerably better. I live in Toronto, Canada, however, but I can go over the border to Buffalo and pick up the product if that ends up being considerably cheaper.

4 or 5 burners, I don't care. Color isn't an issue either, but cleaning is. I hear the enameled cooktops clean much easier, but I have no experience with them. I have a electric range with a glass top, and I know it doesn't clean easy at all.

Thanks

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  1. First, I would seriously think about induction. Easy to clean, same controllability as gas, and I'm hooked on it (moved from electric coil to gas to induction). The glass top on conduction is waaay easier to clean than a gas cooktop, in my experience.
    Pitch for induction OVER! LOL!
    I'd look at Viking or Thermador. I think Wolff is overpriced but that's just me.
    And I would get a local purchase and local installation by a good vendor. Seriously, it can make a huge difference when it comes to service and warranty work. I found this out in Kingston Ontario just down the road. We could have bought our costly induction cooktop via DirectBuy (RUN, RUN AWAY) but the thing is, service and maintenance is the lowest priority for the company that deals with these cooktops IF you haven't bought your cooktop from them. Just a word of warning. We are glad be bought locally as we had issues with our first one that was delivered. Had we bought from out of town or Direct Buy, it would have been a nightmare to solve.
    I know, you didn't want this info, you want to know what kind is best...Viking, Thermador...it'll be a bugger to clean if you have any boil-overs even on an enameled surface (this was the case with my last pro-series gas dual fuel)..
    :)

    20 Replies
    1. re: freia

      I have a range right now with induction top. I also use a gas range when I'm away during the summers. In my opinion, gas >>>>>>> induction. You say gas and induction have the same controllability, but I disagree. With induction, it's always turning on and off and on and off and... If you know how to use gas (which takes some getting used to), it's far more controllable, and the heat is even.

      Also, perhaps it's just the gas range that I use (maybe it has a high BTU), but I can boil the same amount of water twice as fast on gas.

      EDIT: Sorry, I confused induction with regular electric, so I take back what I said.

      1. re: sepandee

        :) that's OK, induction is kind of a specialty thing that isn't too well known. And you are BANG on with respect to ceramic burner/electric.

        1. re: freia

          K, now I'm really looking into induction!!! Can't find a place that sells them for a decent price in Toronto/Canada though, but I just found out that IKEA sells them and a lot of users have left good reviews.

          1. re: sepandee

            Ikea sells good quality ones, AND you'll have to get new cookware but it isn't a huge cost as Ikea sells that too. I'm thinking induction may be a good option as you already have electrical there, and you won't have to run a gas line to the area. You may need to tweak the circuit but you'd need an electrician to install anyways.
            I've had induction for a few years now and I won't go back to gas. I know with gas, my cooktop heated up while cooking (unavoidable) and any boilovers of anything were a total nightmare to clean. With induction, the surface never gets hot enough for boilovers to fuse to the glass top. You just move the pot, wipe it up, and carry on. It is really amazing.
            I'm in Kingston, Ontario, and know you can get a 30 inch cooktop induction from Sears, for $1399, just a bit more than you wanted to spend:
            http://www.sears.ca/product/frigidair...
            Personally? I'd be seriously looking at Ikea. They've done induction for YEARS in Europe and I'd be comfortable with what they have to offer.
            :)

        1. re: sepandee

          Many Ikea applainces are made by Whirlpool, don't know about the induction rangetop. I don't know enough about induction range tops to make any concrete statements, however, keep in mind what you cook, even if it's only a couple of times a year, that might have special heating requirements. For example, my wife makes candy for the holidays and some other occasions. She has used both gas and the spiral electric coils with success, gas is easier, more and faster control of the heat. She has also tried unsuccessfully, to use the glass/ceramic tops. She has never tried to make candy on an induction range top, so we don't know how well or if that would work. The thing is, she has certian requirements for making candy which are only important a few times a year, but that is important to her. If you have some, let's say, unusual things you like to cook, make sure induction will have the kind of flexability you need.

          As far as gas cooktops are concerned I think there are a lot to choose from and it's a technology that's been around long enough that any major brand should supply a quility product. You can always check Consumer Reports for their reviews and reliability history of a brand for what it's worth.

          1. re: mikie

            Induction works exactly as gas, with the same responsiveness as gas, is actually faster than gas when getting up to temperature, and is much more efficient than gas at converting power to heat energy (gas is only around 40 percent efficient; induction is around 90 percent efficient).
            I've had both and I can tell you that there is nothing you can't do with induction that you can do with gas.

            1. re: freia

              That's good to know. We didn't really know where we could actually try one out, and yes we knew it was supposed to boil water faster and be more efficient, but if it didn't work for candy making it wasn't going to work out. How many stores can you go into with your pots and ingredents to see if you can whip up a batch of salted carmel or English toffee? So we went with what we knew worked. We would have never guessed that the ceramic top would not work, but one of our daughters had one and they couldn't make toffee on it, just not enough heat control.

              1. re: mikie

                Ceramic top is horrible for heat control, agreed. My parents have one, and it is ALWAYS turn up turn off turn on turn down turn up ad nauseum. Some of the higher end appliance stores will let you try out cooktops before you buy, too. We didn't do that, as none of these shops exist in my hometown, but they do in Toronto, Edmonton, and Calgary amongst other places.
                We really went on spec and on reviews and haven't been disappointed. Actually, what I appreciate the MOST is if I'm making, say, cherry pie filling and I want to precook it, and it --gasp--boils over, the hot sugar won't fuse to the cooktop as it did with our old gas cooktop, and we had a pro series Kitchenaid dual fuel, cost a mint. We were always scraping and trying not to damage the top and finally gave up a few years after we bought it. Our induction cooktop is amazing and I couldn't be happier!
                TOTALLY understand the reluctance, though -- you never know and you don't want to be stuck with a cooktop that doesn't perform the way you expect.
                :)

              2. re: freia

                For any electrically powered range to work, heat energy must be converted into electricity, transmitted to your home and then converted back into heat energy. This is certainly less efficient than a gas stove converting it's fuel directly into heat energy on the cooking surface.

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_r...

                1. re: Pedr0

                  depends entirely on where the electricity comes from. The original poster is in Ontario, where much electricity is from hyrdo; no heat energy there. The carbon cost of electrically powered appliances there is lower than it is somewhere where the power is from coal or gas.

                  There's also the waste heat aspect. If you have a 10,000 btu burner on full blast, you're dumping 6,000 of those into your kitchen as heat. That's 1750 watts. In winter, that's not much of a problem, but in the summer, that's several hundred watts of extra AC load. An induction range will dump only a couple hundred watts of waste into the kitchen. (I'm ignoring the heat that goes into the pot, because it's the same in both cases.) That's enough to change the efficency rankings around in a lot of places.

                  1. re: dscheidt

                    Ontario Power Generation looks to be split three ways between Hydro, Atomic and Thermal (coal/oil/gas) generation. Hydroelectric is great but, like much of North America, there's a much greater chance that the electricity is coming from an extremely carbon-intensive source like atomic energy or coal. Also, a tremendous amount of electrical power is lost just from going from generation, transmission, substations and transformers as it travels through the grid on it's way to your house. http://www.opg.com/power

                    Induction is certainly more efficient than a conventional electric range but I think looking at the bigger picture, those devices have a much higher carbon footprint than one might be led to believe.

                    1. re: Pedr0

                      Coal is the number one way to make electricity in America. Internet claims "Approximately 18% of Canada's electricity is generated by using coal. In Canada," More hydro and oil used in Canada, what I suspect

                      1. re: zzDan

                        I think it's atomic energy as much as coal at least in Ontario. There are 8 reactors right at the edge of Toronto in Pickering. Scary stuff.

                        1. re: zzDan

                          Thing is, induction is WAY more efficient than electric coil, halogen, ceramic puck or any other type of electric cooktop. So if you really want to be energy efficient, use induction. It makes no sense to be so against induction and so "pro" electric coil et al if conserving electricity is your goal.
                          If you have to use electricity, then induction is the way to go as it is the most efficient use of electricity out there.
                          There is no perfect environmentally impact-free form of cooking out there, except maybe for solar stoves and even then to make them one uses manufactured material which leaves a footprint on the earth.

                    2. re: Pedr0

                      Ridiculous. Please look up Induction Cooking on Google, you'll see that energy is converted to usable heat for cooking very efficiently. Open flame means most of the heat created by the flame is lost to the environment, meaning it takes more gas to create heat at the bottom of the pan.
                      Sigh.

                      1. re: freia

                        "Open flame means most of the heat created by the flame is lost to the environment, meaning it takes more gas to create heat at the bottom of the pan."

                        No way is this true unless one is always sloppy and turns up the gas so high that flames are going up the sides on the pot. Definitely not true when one is simmering on a low gas flame. 100% of that flame (while simmering) is under the pot and my guess is 80-90% of the heat goes into the pot

                        1. re: zzDan

                          Your estimate is wrong, unfortunately. Its not where the flame is, its the conversion of the heat to usable heat. A flame can be on the bottom of the pan but in heating the bottom of the pan a fair amount of heat is lost.
                          That's what makes it inefficient -- http://nvate.com/516/cool-heat/
                          About 60 percent of the heat generated by the flame is lost to the environment regardless of whether it is a low flame or a high flame. It doesn't matter. The fact is that an open flame that creates heat will lose 60 percent of this heat to the environment. 40 percent of the heat generated by the flame actually heats up the pot. This is what makes it inefficient.

                          1. re: freia

                            Your link there is getting its information from here--->> http://www.induction-cooktop.com/icen...

                            Scroll to bottom where you see a table. Look at *Efficiency* and you will see that sealed burner gas stove is rated 5 same as induction stove. *Efficiency* here refers to efficiency of energy use at the exact time of cooking. So I am correct about natural gas being very good and efficient use of the heat source (fuel) during actual cooking, same as induction

                            Now refer to *Energy Factor* where it gets complicated. Induction scores .82 while sealed burner gas stove scores .42. This *Energy Factor* includes day to day, year to year energy consumed by actual cooking plus "by other features such as a clock, standing pilot, electronic ignition system, or self-cleaning cycles." Which I don't get because electronic ignition systems don't use that much electricity.....maybe the self-cleaning cycles do? So I don't like, believe or trust that .42 number plus today's electronic ignition and self cleaning use much less electric.

                            The way to really cheap out is get a gas stove w pilot light. This will easily beat induction. Turn off that pilot at the valve. Then use an igniter which is how it is done in poorer nations where women are ecstatic over having a two burner gas stove instead of charcoal or wood one. Like this one from India

                             
                2. re: sepandee

                  It seems to me that it would be a good use of your time to visit a few local stores to get a sense of what designs are out there in 30" models, and see which of them appeal to you, and your style. We are fully redoing our kitchen this year and I wanted a 36" gas cooktop and separate single wall oven. I wanted my controls out of the way, front or side, and a continuous grate system. I found a great deal on a used 36" thermador cooktop so that's what I went with - it looks brand new. Mine is like the photo but a black surface instead of stainless.

                   
              3. I would probably try to have induction and gas if possible on my next kitchen.
                I posted this on an earlier thread -it does tell what you cannot do on induction.
                http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/...

                5 Replies
                1. re: wekick

                  I've seen that thread, and that one poster's list of what you can't do on induction is disputed by many, many induction owners, including plenty on that very thread. The only points that are really valid are A) you can't use a round-bottomed wok very well, and B) you can't use non-magnetic cookware like aluminum and copper at all unless you add a ferrous subplate.

                  1. re: BobB

                    The interesting thing about that list is that there is also a number of open flame grilling type techniques that you can't do on any form of electrical cooking. If that's what you really want to do, then gas is for you or use a bbq. Which is fair enough.Other thing was using "historic handmedown pots" which is also true enough but I really don't think too many people use this kind of cookware. And cast iron/le cruseut type of cookware, from really back in the day, is absolutely fine.

                    1. re: freia

                      True, but most of those open flame techniques are not really suitable for indoor cooking. I have a nice big Weber gas grill for that kind of cooking, just steps from my porch door where I can even use it mid-winter.

                      1. re: BobB

                        Yup, me too. I think the only thing I really miss is roasting red peppers over the gas grill, but that's what I have a gas grill like you, hooked up to the natural gas in the house, and I use it all winter long. :)

                    2. re: BobB

                      It is just a post meant to give a person considering induction an idea of what you may not be able to do. Yes there are people who will argue pro and con and that is the point of the post. Most people are so invested in what they have they tend to only give one side and refuse to see any negatives. There are negatives to anything, but the issue is, are they significant to you and what is the work around. Before making a major change in the way you cook it is good to consider all aspects. I would make a point of seeking out the disadvantages. There might be just one of those things that would be a deal killer for some and mean nothing to you. I don't know too many people who want to buy a cooktop and then hate it and have to buy another.
                      One poster on this forum, Caroline, had a very interesting idea of no cooktops but induction modules that could be stored in drawers.

                  2. Here is induction cooking. http://theinductionsite.com/how-induc...
                    I would go for the gas any day of the week. Cleaning up a bit is part of the price you pay for a superior way to cook. I don't need or want an (induction) electromagnet cooking my food, call me old fashioned. The idea is absurd. Yep we do have a microwave we use once a month or so.

                    12 Replies
                    1. re: zzDan

                      OK, you're old fashioned LOLOL...btw cooking with induction was developed in the late 1920s...not so recent. And I love love LOVE my induction cooktop. With respect to gas, there are fumes and flame byproducts that can totally taint your food as gas doesn't burn completely clean. Just saying...

                      1. re: freia

                        Utterly ridiculous. Gas stoves do not put fumes and "whatever" into your food. Totally unscientific. How would you do if put in a situation to cook for your family with only a wood stove? Would you faint and starve to death? Warning: I have cooked with wood stove ~10 times in my life.

                        #2 Induction has been around since 1920, that may be but I'll bet has been widely used only in the last 5-10 years and I did not consult google on that

                        1. re: zzDan

                          I'm not going to get into a flame war here (lol love the pun) but induction has been widely used in Europe since the 1920s and here's a little reading that may help clear things up on the gas side of the house:
                          http://www.environmentalhealth.ca/sum...
                          Now granted, you can find an article substantiating everything, but my point is that there really is no completely safe way of cooking -- perhaps we should all be raw foodists LOL.
                          I've used electric coil, ceramic burners, gas and induction, and indeed all are perfectly safe and I love love LOVE my induction cooktop.
                          In any event, this is off topic, as the suggestion was for 30 inch gas range, not to debate the relative safety of an induction cooktop.
                          I've made a couple of recommendations and suggested an alternative that may be more suitable given the OPs current kitchen arrangement.
                          Pax.

                          1. re: freia

                            Induction wars, flame wars, it's all the same. I read your link and no way can anyone be annoyed or bothered by gas stove by products but the allergenic and the ill. To each his own. Hmmm... in your post you did not include wood stove with what you have cooked on so a bit of a fail but...

                            Pax

                            1. re: zzDan

                              ???confused...I've never cooked on a wood stove nor recommended it, so I'm unsure why this is an issue...I've eaten food cooked over open flame and its delicious!

                              1. re: freia

                                Just saying.... you should do it the hard way a few times in your life, cooking on a wood stove. You mentioned the other ways so why not a wood stove a few times in your future? It is not so easy so is a test of your abilities. Like I said... I have done wood stove cooking so my skills were tested. Gas cooking is much easier and I suppose induction cooking the same level. This conversation is useless because you like the most modern cooking ranges while I see many difficiencies

                      2. re: zzDan

                        The electromagnet does not cook your food, it heats the pan. The hot pan is what cooks your food on ANY kind of cooktop. The only things that matter are how much (or how little) heat can be applied, how evenly the heat is distributed, and how quickly the heat can be increased or decreased. A good induction cooktop matches or exceeds gas on all three of those points, and is much easier to clean. You can even place a paper towel or piece of parchment paper under the pan while you cook to catch spatters so that there is no cleanup at all other than tossing out the paper.

                        Your objection to induction is just unscientific claptrap.

                        1. re: BobB

                          Knock yourself out. I would never buy into it. It's the wackiest way of cooking ever invented by mankind. One poster here says it is being promoted as being "green"? How green is it to burn coal to make electricity. Transmit it to the end user who then drives an electromagnet to heat up a pot. You want to get a quart of water to 212°....Natural gas will always be greener and less expensive

                          I was not aware of it until recently but many people fear natural gas in their house. That it might explode. So they try to go all electric or at least cook via electricity. Do you know if induction cooking uses electricity to cook food more efficiently than ye old electric range?

                          1. re: zzDan

                            Yes, induction cooking uses electricity to cook food more efficiently than ye old electric range. And it uses energy more efficiently than gas, too. Making it greener. It actually heats pans faster meaning less energy to boil water as it is quicker than gas. Lets not get into the environmental discussion of gas exploration and extraction (can anyone say Exxon Valdez? Or better yet, British Petroleum???)
                            I have my house heated by natural gas. It isn't a fear thing on my end. Perhaps use of an induction cooktop is simply fear on your end?
                            Join us all in the 21st century! Its fun over here!

                            1. re: freia

                              Never heard much about induction until the last day or so. Reading up on it...Yes it has higher initial investment but uses electric more efficiently than other types of electric ranges. But you know I'll still rank gas ahead of it. Induction is no "greener" than natural gas which is always promoted as the greenist fuel for power plants. Greener than burning oil or coal. Natural gas is plentiful in USA with our new fracking technologies. The price is way down. You buy your BTUs much cheaper with gas than with oil and that ratio has gone up the last few years

                              The only green claim for cooking with electricity can come if you use hydro generated electricity. I know you like and love your induction stove so what can I say but whip up something good. You could even name something that when you cook it on your induction stove it is so much better or easier than on a gas stove

                              1. re: zzDan

                                Pretty much everything cooked on my induction stove is cooked very much in the same way that gas cooks it only it is more efficient and actually faster. And yes, I did whip up something good! Spanakopita (sauteed the spinach and onions) and pastitsio. Delish! :)
                                Oh and I have electric ovens too, not gas... :) :)

                                1. re: freia

                                  Cool! You put it to work making good food and it's a great tool for you so can't argue with you. I'll bet half of the super duper 6 burner Viking ranges sit there unused. They are status symbols. Not telling you anything new here. ...it is high status to bring in restaurant quality cooking equipment for your house. Gives you certain bragging rights that are v desirable these days.

                                  "It ain't bragging if you can do it" -- Babe Ruth

                      3. After reading all the posts here and doing my own research, I'm really thinking about buying an induction cooktop. I'm going to have a BBQ anyways in case a flame is ever needed. The only problem is that most induction cooktops that are sold in Canada fall outside my price range. I could buy it from the US for cheaper, but then warranty and fixing it become major issues.

                        IKEA currently sells a whirlpool cooktop for $999. I may go with that one.

                        7 Replies
                        1. re: sepandee

                          Definitely go for it! The price is in line and I don't think you'll regret it :)

                          1. re: freia

                            :)

                            Now to find a decent but not too expensive hood....

                            1. re: sepandee

                              I have yet to find both decent and inexpensive when searching for hoods. Our big issue was noise and inexpensive typically equates to not so quiet. Good luck.

                              1. re: sepandee

                                Let us know how it goes, and take before and afters! You're going to love it. Maybe also check to see what Ikea offers, as sometimes its just as easy to pair the two that are "made for each other" if you know what I mean? There's a nice one for $400 that is overhead mount -- http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/cat...
                                :)

                            2. re: sepandee

                              I'm sure that induction is "nice". I've had gas nearly all my life and never tried induction per se. But ... I do know that I own a lot of cookware that would be useless if I were to consider induction.

                              What I would suggest, for your consideration - is why not just buy one of those nice portable countertop induction units and give it a nice extended test drive? This will merely set you back $100 or less. And, in all likelyhood, you already own a few pots/pans that are "induction friendly". So you'll be able to figure out if you really love it or not - before completely committing $1000-1300 on full-sized induction cooktop ...

                              http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_0...

                              Personally, I love cooking with gas, and wouldn't wish to lose / replace some of my expensive cookware.

                              One other consideration. Someday you'll probably move and sell your home. The kitchen and master bath really factor into whether buyers will consider the house - or not. It is worth bearing in mind what is popular among home buyers in your market. If buyers want to see "commercial looking gas cooktops or ranges" in homes with renovated kitchens then I would really think twice about that.

                              First and foremost my home is an investment. I don't want to have a permanent fixture that might not be well-aligned to market demand. Bear in mind - the buyers agent is not going to be trying to sell their client on "how wonderful induction is". They don't care - they just want to sell a house and get a commission. If buyers tell their agents that they are interested in updated ktichens with gas - then that agent is pretty likely to exclude your home from the listings.

                              Bottom line - I don't know your real estate market. Down here, high-end gas ranges and cooktops are all the rage and have been for a long time. I wish you luck and hope that this has been helpful to you.

                              1. re: jkling17

                                Times they are achanging....the 1.5 million dollar dream house in the Calgary Hospital Lottery this year in Calgary Alberta featured an induction cooktop. In fact, high high high end houses are featuring more and more of these, especially since they are marketed as being more fuel efficient and "greener" than their gas alternatives.
                                You can get induction-friendly cookware as a set at Ikea for just over $150.00.
                                There are definite different kitchen styles, but I really wouldn't be put off induction if I was a buyer. Or a real estate agent. There are many reasons why a house would or would not sell and an induction cooktop isn't really going to make a significant difference IMHO. I have a feeling that it might even be a selling point for a certain segment of the market. And lets face it, buyers who love your house will buy it regardless. I don't think an agent is going to exclude your house from an actual MLS listing for the sake of a cooktop. And they'll show it regardless if it meets the majority of purchasing features that a buyer wants.
                                This is kind of a non issue IMHO.
                                You gotta live, yo!

                                1. re: freia

                                  "buyers who love your house will buy it regardless"

                                  Good point - we bought our current house in large part because of the huge, well laid out kitchen, despite the fact that it had a pain-in-the-ass radiant heat cooktop. When you're spending hundreds of thousands on a house, incidentals that cost even a few thousand more but make it perfect for you seem trivial at the time.

                            3. gas vs induction ( I won't repeat what other posters have said):
                              o - induction cook tops are much easier to clean
                              o - gas grates allow for rough handling - think pan tossing and shoving things around
                              o - so I would choose one or the other based on the behaviour of 'ALL' users on your cooking ....surface

                              range hood:
                              o - some have suggested Ikea but don't rule out Costco Canada
                              o - venting matters in the real world - mine goes up for 2 feet, then a 90 degree turn and then for another 15 feet, then another 45 degree turn and another 5 feet before it hits the roof. I can't tell you how much this reduces efficiency but it is a killer. I've been thinking about installing another fan at roof level to assist as a low cost solution. I don't know how much it would help. I think 'Mikie' would know.

                              Edit: forgot to mention that I use gas and that my range hood is rated at 380 CFM and is noisy - the noise doesn't bother me but could drive others crazy. :)

                              14 Replies
                              1. re: rosetown

                                Hi Rose,

                                Yeah, an inline fan would make a huge difference and much quieter as well. Also they are really pretty cheap. The only tricky part might be the electric bit, depending what circuits are up there, and how you might snake a control wire down (assuming no wireless controls are offered)?

                                We are incorporating one of these into our own design, as we will have an island cooktop - about 8-10' from the outside wall, possibly with one short 90 angle.

                                1. re: rosetown

                                  I was able to get an induction cooktop paired with the same brand snorkel downdraft. By going down through the floor and out the side of the house, I avoided having to externally vent up through the top floor with an overhead vent. :)

                                  1. re: freia

                                    Thank you - but my situation is a 'fait accompli', unless I do a total tear-down and reconstruction, and even then, given the layout, any benefit would be at best, marginal.

                                    1. re: rosetown

                                      Totally get that...I was thinking that alot of basements have removable drop ceilings, and in that case it is easier to remove the drop panels and put in a downdraft than it would be to try to externally vent up a couple of floors. I imagine then that your cooktop is on a back wall with a vent hood over top vice a free standing vent hood, so what you are saying makes total sense.
                                      Edit: and of course I mistook you for the OP, who wants to replace her range hood (blush)

                                      1. re: rosetown

                                        Rose - what is the diameter of your duct? Does it change while along the path? What is the largest and smallest size? Bigger is better but not much you can do about it.

                                        1. re: jkling17

                                          You know, Jeff, I can't answers your questions without a bit of tearing. I believe 4 inches in diameter. Last year, I replaced the cheapest Broan under the counter hood with this. I purchased at Costco for under $150.00. It's a Sylvania rebranded as Nexstyle.

                                           
                                          1. re: rosetown

                                            That's a lot of run and turns for a 4" duct. Mine is 8", I think 6" is typical, but some high performance hoods with a lot of CFM use 10" ducting. Keep in mind going from say 6" to 4" isn't jsut 33% smaller, it's over 50% smaller in area.

                                            1. re: mikie

                                              Unfortunately, many builders meet only the minimum required code, and even then, municipal inspectors are often less than diligent. Still I purchased the place in 1996, a bank repossession at a bargain price and luckily, in the main, it is very well built. I've since done a lot of upgrading.
                                              But yes, that is an insane amount of twists, turns, and distance, for a 4 inch duct.

                                            2. re: rosetown

                                              Hi Rose,

                                              Understood. May we assume that you can measure the diameter of the pipe up in your attic, near the roof - since that is where you would wish to install? You'll need to know this, to order the correct one, in any case.

                                              About the smallest unit that would really help given the run and the turns is probably 600 CFU or 650. Also, plan to get some special "duct tape" (not the standard grey duct tape) to seal all the joints that you have physical access to. It's a good bet that this wasn't done by the subcontractor who did it for the builder back when.

                                              I just hope there is some way to snake the control wires down to your kitchen. There might be some way of doing it with a radio control, but you'd need to call some suppliers to see what can be done. Some professional advice might be in order here ...

                                              1. re: jkling17

                                                jeff:
                                                By CFU do you mean CFM?

                                                I can measure the pipe near the roof - the last 5 feet exits to the roof through a partially insulated attached garage. I'm not going to do it now - it's February and I'm not in a hurry.
                                                With no trouble I can get the electrical to the garage door - a 20 second round trip to turn on/off - not ideal but doable. Snaking the line to the kitchen could be difficult. Wireless might be a solution.

                                                Edit: the exposed pipe in the garage is heavily wrapped with insulation - hence unable to visually judge width.

                                      2. re: rosetown

                                        It would take a fair amount of calculation and some research, but there are formula to determine how much velocity is lost per foot of run and for turns. It seems like a 90 degree turn is equivelent to about a ten foot run. But there are a lot of factors including the diameter of the vent tubing.

                                        I've got a Vent-a-hood rated at 600 CFM claimed to be equivelent to 900 CFM in their literature. It's 42" wide and 24" deep and mounted 30" above the rangetop. There's maybe 18" to the ceiling and then the slighest jog to get around a wall stud and a 90 to get outside, so there is one soft 90 degree turn and less than 5 feet of duct. If I remember correctly the 90 was about equal to the additional distance to the roof as far as efficiency goes.

                                        It's a bit out of my area of expertise, but I'm not sure of the physics that would be involved with a fan behind a fan. I could make a case for a roof mounted fan that pulled more air than the vent mounted fan, it would make the vent mounted fan think it was venting directly into atmosphere.

                                        1. re: mikie

                                          Tnx mikie
                                          I wasn't expecting you to do the math - LOL - but by description you understand my problem.
                                          My thinking and please correct me.
                                          o -regardless, an additional rooftop fan will help.
                                          o - a rooftop fan with much greater CFM than my range hood, assuming it exists, could ,in theory, result in CFM equivalent or greater than my range hoods rated CFM, and thus be equivalent to venting directly into the atmosphere.

                                          1. re: rosetown

                                            You need to be careful you don't over power as that will create a great deal of noise as the air will make noise going through the long run and turns. Especially if you really only have 4" duct. I'd be very careful with this idea. You may want to consult someone who really knows what they are doing with air movement and ducting and keeping the system in balance. I would hate to see you spend money on an extra fan and then have it too loud to be usable.

                                            1. re: mikie

                                              Agreed. I'll consult a pro before making any move.

                                      3. Sepandee! You are in Toronto, so why not give Distinctive Appliances a call -- they've moved showrooms from the Castlefield area, but here's a website to see where they've reopened...they have induction cooktops that are operational and you can give an induction cooktop a spin
                                        http://www.distinctive-online.com/con...

                                        1. Wow, what a long thread! Just read everything. Thank you all, to both those who stuck to the point and those who went off-track and hijacked the thread for endless posts :P

                                          4 Replies
                                          1. re: sepandee

                                            Whoops - I'm the irresponsible person who took it off topic - My apologies.

                                              1. re: sepandee

                                                Thanks :)
                                                Are you diligently looking for a range hood or does that come later?

                                                1. re: rosetown

                                                  I'm doing it now. Found a few at Costco.ca, and now I'm looking at kitchenhoods.ca

                                          2. Dammit. Electrician saw the wiring today and said the wire coming in is 40amps, and half of it is being used by the oven, so a new wire needs to come in. But the electricity box is old and can't accommodate any new wires, so it needs to be replaced and roughly costs $1200 :(

                                            Dammit dammit dammit.

                                            31 Replies
                                            1. re: sepandee

                                              Welcome to the joys of remodeling ;) When they took the old cabinets out of the kitchen they found a heater duct, the cabinet maker said, oops, didn't expect that to be there. That's kind of how it goes with these things. Good luck.

                                              1. re: sepandee

                                                SUCK! Well, back to gas, which is still an awesome choice.
                                                You'll need to do a little research about whether you want sealed or unsealed burners and whether or not you want an enameled surface. Plus getting the estimate in for running the gas line. I think Ikea also sells gas cooktops, too? Sears is also a good place to look, but really, your choice will pretty much come down to personal preference. I'd go for sealed burners, enamel top and controls to the side of the unit, not at the front. Oh, and a continuous grate if possible. It makes sliding pots around on the cooktop easier than if you have to lift and move from one burner grate to another. You also might want to get one that senses if the burners have blown out and turns the gas off automatically as a result -- Bosch calls this "smartflame technology" .
                                                :)

                                                1. re: freia

                                                  Only $600 more to go for induction...... Was $600 to bring in the gas line anyhow. So I think sepandee said

                                                  1. re: zzDan

                                                    Don't think it's $600. Maybe $250 or so. But since this is an investment home in the long run, I might as well buy a new hydro/utility/electricity/whatever box it's called.

                                                2. re: sepandee

                                                  I'd get another quote! I have done a LOT of electrical. A new panel doesn't cost very much. We're talking like $100 - and that comes with quite a lot of breakers. You'll need some more but figure your total material expensive for panel and breakers will be under $200. Plus the wire that you need for the new line. As to labor - fully licensed electricians are readily available for $30-40 per hour.

                                                  Square D Homeline is a good value. http://www.fleetfarm.com/catalog/prod...

                                                  Their panel and breaker prices are usually better than Siemens, etc. All the companies are good though. You may wish to get a few "twin" breakers - which use one slot but handle 2 circuits. You can only get so many of these for a panel but they do help keep things nice and tidy and save some room.

                                                  1. re: jkling17

                                                    Depends on how many amps service the house has though. True, a panel itself and a few breakers don't cost all that much but the labour for installing it and upgrading the street service from 100A to 200A will get expensive.

                                                    1. re: jkling17

                                                      Is this what you call a utility/hydro box?

                                                      1. re: sepandee

                                                        We did the same thing for our induction cooktop. We had to increase the amperage into the house, creating the need to increase the service to the house. You may be in this situation, too. Get a second opinion perhaps?

                                                        1. re: sepandee

                                                          But the quote that he gave you was $1200. To me that sounds cheap for a full panel upgrade, WITH service upgrade - and running a new line. So my educated guess is that a full service upgrade was not required or he would have quoted even more. Would you let us know what the quote entailed?

                                                          No it's not a utility box. They are talking about a "what if". If your current panel is "large enough" in terms of amps and "merely lacks enough slots for breakers" - then all that's needed is just to swap out your current panel with a larger one that has more slots. This is pretty simple and can be done in probably 4 hours or so. If the new panel uses the same breakers as the old panel, then you would also save some money on breakers - but not a lot so the focus should be on the best panel for your needs.

                                                          IF, your current box is say 100 amps and a new panel that is still "merely 100 amps with more slots" and the 100 amp total will NOT handle the total amp load safely - then ... that is where things become more complicated. Then it's not merely a case of "swapping out a panel" but also the new panel is a higher amperage. Then the outside service must also be swapped out as well as the service wire that carries the current from the outside service box to your inside main panel breaker box.

                                                          Here again, the parts aren't that big a deal. The outside service box is perhaps $100 at most. And the heavy gauge wire (I think it's 2/0) is about $4-5 a foot. This type of wire is much cheaper to get at electrical supply stores than home depot, etc. It is very hard to work with (very thick and hard to bend), so I would highly recommend getting like 4-5 feet more than you think you need, to make it easier on your electrician, and the labor costs!

                                                          If you are really lucky, your outside service panel is very close to your inside panel, with no major obstructions.

                                                          So ... IF ... you need a service upgrade from 100 to 200 amps ... yes that will get more expensive, primarily from labor costs. In that case, you would probably save a lot to just go with a gas cooktop.

                                                          1. re: jkling17

                                                            And don't forget, you won't necessarily need to upgrade a full 100 amps. They can upgrade in units less than 100, making it a less expensive affair. We would up adding 50 amps, not 100 amps, which was more cost effective for us than upgrading the full extra 100 amps,.

                                                            1. re: freia

                                                              Well it is true that you CAN upgrade for less. But there is very little cost difference. Generally, the electric company itself doesn't charge anymore for 100 vs 150 vs 200. They don't care. Their residential service charge is usually identical and about $5 a month or whatever you are currently paying. You could call and ask but that should be the case since this is not a commercial structure. The power coming from the street to the house is usually 200 amps and simply reduced at the service box to the house.

                                                              There might be some slight savings in one type of service cable vs. another. Say 4/0 instead of 2/0. But why bother trying to save perhaps $25-30 in cabling when everything else is basically the same? If you are going to HAVE to do a service upgrade, it makes sense to put in 200, and then have all sorts of flexibility to create various subpanels in other places.

                                                              1. re: jkling17

                                                                No, I don't think it is an issue of saving on the actual power that I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that to upgrade from our 110 amp service to 200 amp service cost significantly more than to upgrade by 50 amps only. In fact, the price was double. As estimated and billed by the electrician (and we had 4 estimates). Not by our electrical provider. Your experience may differ, but this was my experience during my home renovation.

                                                                1. re: freia

                                                                  Hmmmm ... I DO believe you about the quotes and such. But that is really quite strange. The panels cost about the same. The service box costs about the same. The cable that runs between both of those is "more" but not a lot more. Lets say an extra $1 per foot. The labor to do all of that is only SLIGHTLY trickier with 200 than 150. Both cables are thick and tough to work with, the 200 being slightly worse.

                                                                  So I'm confused but I guess for you that it just "is what it is". But I also pay my electrician $30/hour cash and we do it together. Electric stuff is fun - just like computer networking but with higher voltages :-)

                                                                  1. re: jkling17

                                                                    It was a question of the slave panel installation, splitting the circuits, rewiring as necessary, and the essential wiring to get the panel sorted out between the now two panels. I think the cost of the wire wasn't the issue, it was the work to get everything sorted out that was the issue. We had to get an electrical inspection, too, so it had to be done a certain way. For our situation, it was more involved than simply running a thicker wire to the existing electrical panel, hence the cost. I guess you never really know because each house has a different electrical panel, electrical history and electrical wiring, so what may be simple at one place may be really complex at another.

                                                            2. re: jkling17

                                                              Well then, that's strange. One of you is saying it doesn't cost that much extra, and the other says it costs significantly more.

                                                              So I got two quotes from two electricians. I have no clue in electrical stuff, so I may be explaining everything wrong :) But from what I understood, the first electrician said wiring will be new from the panel to the cook top (wiring to the cook top will be routed from the panel in the basement, to the outside and return to the cook top. Outside wiring to be contained in conduit). New wiring to the induction cook top will be a 6/3 cable and a 50 amp breaker. In order to accommodate the 50 amp breaker, we need to eliminate one (1) circuit breaker from the panel and therefore must double-up one existing circuit. Cost of this, ALONG WITH installation of a hood and its piping on top of the cooktop: $1675.00 before HST

                                                              The second guy was more confusing, but he said he'll install the hood for $400 and somehow increase the amperage that goes to the kitchen for the cooktop and stove for $600.

                                                              1. re: sepandee

                                                                Don't forget, you and I are in Canada, and other posters may be in less costly areas or in areas where electrical standards are different. I live just down the road from you, and I speak from my experience within your area. So take it for what it is worth, and IMHO, I just don't mess with electrical. I'd get a third opinion, and make it clear that you'll be getting an electrical inspection done afterwards to make sure. Now, you don't HAVE to do that BUT I'd say that in order to weed out the DIYer type of electricians who might bodge something together in order to get the job.
                                                                I know we had to have a separate dedicated circuit from the electrical panel to the cooktop through a metal conduit, and we had to have a separate circuit breaker for this. And it makes sense that your panel might handle the 50 Amp load but to clear up a circuit, he'll have to move some electrical from one circuit to another. Just FYI.

                                                                1. re: freia

                                                                  Thanks. I am thinking of getting a 3rd opinion. This second guy, however, had very positive reviews on HomeStars -- 9.7/10 out of around 130 reviews.

                                                                  1. re: sepandee

                                                                    130 good reviews? NICE. Thanks very much for making us aware of this. First that I've heard of it. Perhaps it started as a Canadian thing? Cool!

                                                                    1. re: sepandee

                                                                      It is SUCH a crap shoot out there! Isn't HomeStars great! Yelp for renos! Let us know how you get on, and a third opinion would break the tie? Helps you refine further what sounds "right" and then go from there.

                                                                      1. re: sepandee

                                                                        Nothing wrong with 3rd opinion plus why not call back "second guy" for clarification. He might have been too busy on a job to talk clearly. Or flustered by a problem. IOW he values your business but was unable to give you full attention at the time

                                                                        1. re: zzDan

                                                                          Well, he was giving his attention to my brother, and he's as clueless as I am when it comes to electrical things. So that's why we're both confused. But I think I've figured it out now:

                                                                          Quote 1 ($1670 + tax): new wiring to the cooktop with a 6/3 cable and a 50 amp breaker (which will be accommodated by eliminating one circuit breaker from the panel and doubling-up one existing circuit) + Hood installation

                                                                          The second guy differed a bit, saying that the panel has more than one space so no new panel is needed (the first guy recommended I upgrade the panel into one with more circuit breakers for $1400, which is not included in the above quote); it's the matter of adding additional circuit breakers (so no need to change the panel). He also suggested that he can raise the amp going through the wire for the cooktop and stove, so that it could handle the new cooktop and the stove. The price for this was quoted around $1000 which includes installation of new cooktop with the "raising" scenario and also installing the hood that requires some wiring through cabinets, adding new duct and vents and covering the existing downdraft hole in the wall.
                                                                          So Quote 2 ($1000 + tax): *NO* new wires for the cooktop and instead increasing the power (amperage) of the existing wires that runs through the cooktop to the stove + installing a new hood (which will have to be installed by splitting a wire from somewhere else since it can't run through the same wire that connects to the cooktop and stove anymore).

                                                                          What confuses/worries me is that I got two very different quotes and services. Why did one say he recommends changing the panel, but he could double-up on one circuit and run a new wire to the oven (so the existing wire to the cooktop would free up) on the same panel while another says that he can increase the power/amperage of the current wire that runs through the cooktop into the oven?

                                                                          1. re: sepandee

                                                                            All I know from my installation is that I needed a specific kind of wire that was run directly from the panel to my cooktop. And that specific wire (necessary because it is a 50 amp capable wire) had to be run through a metal conduit. And it needed to be a dedicated circuit with its own circuit breaker.
                                                                            To my knowledge, a circuit is capable of handling a number of different draws on it. You might have all the power outlets, overhead lights, and a ceiling fan for example on one circuit because together they draw a certain amount of electricity that is within the limits for that circuit. Not all the circuits in your house are "full", meaning that a circuit can handle extra loads safely. Say, for example, one circuit is only handling 4 plug ins in a room. You can add to the draw on this circuit safely. Other circuits may be at their maximum capacity, so you can't add to them.
                                                                            What it sounds like to me is that the first guy will create a dedicated 50 amp circuit using one of the circuits on your panel. The circuit he wants to use is already handling a load, but he can take this load and safely shift it to another circuit that can handle the additional draw. By shifting this load safely, he can free up this circuit and dedicate it solely to your new cooktop. I think that this is actually code in Ontario -- 50 amp dedicated circuit with special wire and metal conduit. That's what we had done, even though our cooktop only drew 30 amps.
                                                                            I'm not aware of being able to increase the capability of a wire to handle a power/amperage load. You need a new wire for that. This is where my hiccup is with the second guy. And why I think a third opinion would set your mind at ease. And you might want to really study the installation manual for your cooktop. The electrical requirements will be detailed there, and if you know what you need, it'll help you understand the language the electrician is using.

                                                                            1. re: freia

                                                                              I think you are almost correct. It's almost exactly what he proposed to do. But there's already one free circuit on the panel, but I guess it can only handle 120V, so he needs to free up another 120V which he will do with the method you described (double-up on another circuit breaker). That will allow for 2 new wires to run to the cooktop.

                                                                              He also recommended that we upgrade our panel instead of doing this but that would be a separate thing and cost more.

                                                                              I'm not sure how the second guy what's to increase the the power going through the wire. I think right now it's 40amps that's shared between the oven and the current cooktop. There's one free circuit on the panel so perhaps he's drawing from there to "raise" the power on the existing wires that runs to the cooktop/oven?

                                                                              1. re: sepandee

                                                                                If the 2nd guy will warranty that it will pass inspection, and if you're sure that you won't have future electrical needs, I might go with him.

                                                                                1. re: sepandee

                                                                                  See, it isn't the Volts that's the issue, its the amperage to the house. The electricians will look at what you are running in terms of Amps and decide what to do from there. We had 120 Amp service to the house. On that, we had a hot tub, dryer, double oven and air conditioner which drew a bunch of Amps (all of them 50 amps, on dedicated suircuits according to code). To add a 50 Amp appliance meant that our current service with respect to Amps wouldn't suffice. We had to increase the Amps to the house to accommodate the induction cooktop. And that is what cost the money. This is what your guy means by upgrading your panel. If you have alot of appliances that already draw 50 Amps and you have a 100 Amp supply, you'll run into a power issue if you add to it. This is pretty common to do:
                                                                                  http://electrical.about.com/od/panels...
                                                                                  http://en.allexperts.com/q/Electrical...

                                                                                  See, for us, if the dryer was on, the hot tub was running, we had something in the oven, we were pretty maxed out. To use the cooktop would mean that the panel would be overloaded and the circuit breaker for the house would trip.
                                                                                  SO, what you need to know is how many things do you have drawing major amps...and if you are in Toronto, you probably have 100 amp service already, so you need to know what is drawing on your service -- air conditioner? oven? clothes dryer? swimming pool? hot tub? and go from there.
                                                                                  This is why I think he suggested upgrading the panel.
                                                                                  You can't use the same wire at all for the oven and the cooktop. It has to be a dedicated single wire of a certain size for safety reasons. If you have a wire rated for 50 amps, say, for your oven and cooktop, and you split it and run 100 amps on it (cooktop and oven), it'll melt and/or catch fire. That's the thing. Its like trying to use a 2 inch hose and run 50 million gallons through it. It won't work. It'll break. You need to get a thicker wire rated specifically for 50 amps and run only 50 amps no more through it. You can't raise the capability of an existing wire, as far as I know. I don't view this as an "upsell". I view this as safety. But that's just me.
                                                                                  As for the circuit breakers, its normal for them to tie two together for a 50 amp circuit, so what you'll see is two side by side circuit breakers with one long bar connecting the two switches so they can be set and reset in unison. The wire coming OUT of the two circuit breakers will be the one 50 amp dedicated wire to go to your cooktop.
                                                                                  :)

                                                                                  1. re: freia

                                                                                    Well, maybe he's replacing the wire with one that can take a bit more. Good point, I'll ask him. I'm pretty sure the cooktop takes 40 amps (that's when all the burners are on). I believe the oven takes 10, maybe 20.

                                                                                    As for upgrading our service from 100 amps to 150 or 200 amps, the first guy *recommended* it, but didn't say it was necessary and in fact, suggested a different method (as I already wrote) which would work. The items that draw power are the dryer (and it's an old one too), A/C, heater and hot water are gas so no problem there, oven, stove.

                                                                                    1. re: sepandee

                                                                                      I'd say it comes down to your budget. The panel upgrade by 50 amps is a good compromise and would give you flexibility for future additions or changes to your power requirements. But if the first electrician felt your current service could handle it, I'm sure it would be fine. I'm really not clear what the second electrician is offering, but if it involves putting the cooktop and oven on one wire, I'd run because I'm almost 100 percent positive that a new single wire for the cooktop is required by code.
                                                                                      Anyways, a third opinion, maybe? My gut instinct is to go with the first electrician simply because what he's telling you really mirrors what we were told here in Kingston just down the road. And the company we dealt with is one of only a few in Ontario that has an inspection pass rate of over 98 percent on the first inspection (according to the inspectors from Hydro that came on final inspection of our huge home reno).
                                                                                      JMHO!
                                                                                      :)

                                                                                      1. re: sepandee

                                                                                        >> Well, maybe he's replacing the wire with one that can take a bit more. Good point, I'll ask him. I'm pretty sure the cooktop takes 40 amps (that's when all the burners are on). I believe the oven takes 10, maybe 20.

                                                                                        Exactly - he's proposing to replace the current 8/3 wire with a new 6/3 wire (heavier gauge that supports 50 amp vs 40 amp). The old wire can then just be abandoned, re-used by a different circuit, or pulled out and used somewhere else. If it's a pain to get it out then I'd probably just leave it in place.

                                                                                        I would be curious if the 2nd guy with the better quote and lots of good reviews intends to run it outside and back in - or just run it across the basement and straight up into the kitchen. That the first guy wanted to do the outside thing makes it suspicious to me.

                                                                                2. re: sepandee

                                                                                  >> What confuses/worries me is that I got two very different quotes and services.

                                                                                  Ah ... well some of these guys will be more honest and simply address your needs. Others will try and "up sell" you stuff that you may not need at all - or that may just be overkill. It's not a "bad thing" to suggest upgrading your panel - IF he also explains WHY you might want to do that - what BENEFIT would be tied to it. The good news is that most electricians are at least pretty competent. But will some be greedy? Sure. They see this nice couple who is doing a full kitchen make-over and think that they can pad the bottom line ...

                                                                                  But a good contractor will give you a FAIR price to start with and have lots of good references, and help you to fill out the electrical permit, etc. Assuming that you do go the electric and induction route, at least you can be thankful that you merely need to run a new upgraded circuit from the panel to the kitchen.

                                                                                  I have worked with a LOT of contractors over the years. There ARE good ones out there - really! The 2nd guy sounds like he is one, and would probably be happy to clarify your questions. Anyone who gets that many good customer reviews is pretty customer focused.

                                                                                  1. re: sepandee

                                                                                    If I talked to "second guy" in person and he diagrammed it out I would understand his idea. Maybe he could email yr bro a diagram but contractors usually aren't into that. With all those good reviews I would trust him and no inspector will pass a foolish installation unless they are on the take. ....... just saying. Not too helpful I know.

                                                                                    Maybe brother could see him in his office and have him draw a diagram. Brother can bring him a casserole made by you. Lasagna? What real contractor doesn't like lasagna? Semi-joking here. If he doesn't like lasagna then you definitely have to find another.

                                                                    2. I have had an induction top and gas unit. Get what you prefer to cook on. If you prefer gas, go with it. I sold appliances for over 20 years. The induction cooktop was nice, but you need induction ready cookware and the top will scratch and in some cases discolor.
                                                                      In any event, my advice on a gas top would be to stick to Whirlpool brand appliances or go a high end unit such as Viking. GE Monogram is OK too. They use better components to last longer.
                                                                      On induction, most all the induction elements come from Japan so brand is not as important. However, I would avoid GE (other than Monogram) and Frigidaire. Make sure you can get local service for your cooktop. Very important. If you buy in the USA and take it to Canada, make sure the manufacturer will stand behind the warranty. Do not take the seller's word.
                                                                      Both are good choices. Happy cooking.

                                                                      5 Replies
                                                                      1. re: Enigma3

                                                                        Good ideas and some insider advice.......

                                                                        1. re: Enigma3

                                                                          Great. thank you! I wanted to go with gas first, but looks like the piping will be expensive (I don't have a quote yet, but from what I've read around it can cost around $1000). Induction requires some service too, as the house is old and the current wire to the cooktop and oven won't have enough power for an induction cooktop. But the cost is much less for servicing the latter.

                                                                          I was thinking of buying the IKEA cooktop: ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/50182620
                                                                          Decent price, and it's made by Whirlpool. Not sure how the warranty works though. ANd yes, I hear the surface scratches easily, but I guess I can use a barrier (like paper towel) between the surface and cookware.

                                                                            1. re: sepandee

                                                                              We always use paper towels. Zero scratches, insanely easy cleanup.

                                                                              1. re: BobB

                                                                                Frying bacon in a sautee pan over paper towel = amazingly fast cleanup!
                                                                                I heart induction! Oh and btw, I have a Thermador 36 inch induction cooktop that has a ceramic type top for a stainless steel look. I've slid pots over it ad nauseum, and really worked the cooktop. Nary a scratch in sight. Looks as new as the day I bought it. :)
                                                                                http://www.appliancist.com/36-inch-si...
                                                                                OH and I read the link and the first post makes no sense. I've NEVER had the cooktop so hot that boilovers fuse to the ceramic top necessitating a razor blade to remove debris. Ever. And I've had boilovers of caramel, apple pie filling, and milk which are the "big 3". I suspect whomever answered the post was thinking of a regular electric halogen type cooktop where the surface can superheat. Perhaps its because when I get a boilover, I immediately and IMMEDIATLEY move the pan, do the cleanup, wipe the bottom of the pan and keep cooking. Its never been an issue.