Manual pull through knife sharpener recommendations - pro or con

[YossiD]

I've done some research about knife sharpeners including reviews I've read on amazon and several of the threads here.

Although I'm pretty good with my hands, I'm not that proficient manually sharpening with stones, and they do need resurfacing from time to time.

From what I've read, manual sharpeners are often as good as electric ones, and they cost less. And there's the added benefit of less to go wrong.

Most of my knives are Henckel and Goldhamster (from the early 1980s), including serrated knives. I also have one Kershaw blade trader which I suppose has 15 deg edges.

I'm considering Smith Abrasives and Chef's Choice manual sharpeners, and I'd appreciate recommendations pro and con specific models based on personal experience.

Of course I'll happily consider other brands, and even electric sharpeners if they aren't too pricy and if they don't remove too much material.

These are the factors that are important to me (and probably to everyone else). Of course I realize that much of this is subjective.
* How sharp the knives get
* How long the knife stays sharp
* How long it takes to get an acceptable edge when sharpening a dull-ish knife
* How much material is removed when sharpening
* Scratching of the knife by the sharpener
* Quality of the tool (e.g. how long it will last)
* How often, if ever, sharpening elements need to be replaced
* Price

Also, does anyone have an email address for Chef's Choice/Edgecraft? I couldn't find one on their website, and as I am not in the US, I would prefer not to call them on the phone.

Thanks to one and all.

[cowboyardee]

I posted a basic sort of comparative guide to at-home sharpening systems a while ago. Here is a link to the (more or less) updated post.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7971...

The two sharpeners you list are two different kinds of beasts. The Chefs Choice manual sharpener is what I termed a 'wheel sharpener.' It relies on abrasion. It can be frustrating in that it is slow and often doesn't produce an especially sharp edge. It tends to last longer than the Smiths abrasive type sharpener.

The Smiths Abrasive sharpener is mainly what I call a 'carbide shearing' sharpener. It relies on carbide blades that shave metal off the edge. This stage removes metal fairly quickly and generally creates a sharper edge than the Chefs choice. It also wears out fairly quickly, can change the geometry of your knives for the worse, doesn't work well on knives made of particularly hard steel, and creates an edge that doesn't last very long. The second stage is what I termed 'abrasive rods in an X shape' - it is a refining stage, that mainly just adds a tiny bit of support to the carbide stage. The carbides will eventually need to be replaced, though I don't know if Smiths Abrasive sharpeners allow you to do that. Upside is they're so cheap, you can just replace the whole system. This type will be more useful and user friendly if you find yourself sharpening a knife that is especially dull.

Neither are ideal in terms of creating a really sharp, strong edge. The Chefs choice doesn't work especially well for most Japanese knives, while the Smiths abrasive is worse for them still. Neither are difficult to use. I wouldn't expect anything more than really minor scratching of the knife's face from either sharpener. Both are generally lightweight plastic in construction (I think - I haven't tried the Smith's Abrasive sharpener, but it cops the design of many other sharpeners on the market). The main upsides of both systems is low price and ease of use.

[YossiD]

Thanks for the pointer to your comparative guide; it's terrific.

I can't deny that I'm a bit disappointed about the scores for the Chef's Choice manual wheel type sharpener, as it seemed like a good compromise. do all of their models work more or less the same, and if so, why are there so many models? From the descriptions on their website, models 440, 450, 460, and 464 are do the same thing though they don't all look the same. Some models claim to work on straight and serrated knives, but other than that the descriptions are almost identical. User reviews on Amazon for the Chef's Choice manual sharpeners are mostly quite positive so it's strange that you rate them so low. I suppose it has to do with expectations and experience. I am tempted to get one of these and see for myself, but I suppose that would be foolish.

At the moment I use an F. Dick ceramic rod for honing and a Norton Crystolon oil stone when the edge needs forming, but I'm not so good with the stone and it it does take time. Somewhere I think I still have a Norton Queer Creek stone too, but I haven't used it for years.

I have also noticed spring finger sharpeners (e.g. Furi) that almost seem like a twist on the wheel type sharpener. And then there is the F. Dick Rapid Steel family of sharpeners with different grades of rods for sharpening, honing, and polishing. Any thoughts on either of these?

Some 30 years ago I bought the Spyderco sharpener with triangular ceramic rods, and it works much the same as a ceramic hone. Today i see it is also sold with coarser sharpening rods to provide a more complete sharpening solution. I suppose I should check if the course rods are available separately.

Which brings me to another question. What's the best way to clean/resurface a ceramic hone? After a while the surface gets smoother and "clogged" with metal particles. Is fine sandpaper too aggressive a treatment?

Thanks again for your excellent comparison guide and the advice.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"User reviews on Amazon for the Chef's Choice manual sharpeners are mostly quite positive so it's strange that you rate them so low."

They are not really that low. They are just not very high performance and flexible. People who rated it high on amazon are people who just want a fast solution. You will never see a Japanese sushi chef put his yanagiba through a Chef's Choice sharpener for sure. Why don't you think they use Chef's Choice?

"And then there is the F. Dick Rapid Steel...."

You are talking one of these, right?

http://www3.acitydiscount.net/pics/md...

They are good if you have trouble holding your steel at the right angle.

"What's the best way to clean/resurface a ceramic hone? After a while the surface gets smoother and "clogged" with metal particles."

You want to dissolve or loosen the metal fine. I would try using a brush (a stiff toothbrush like) and water to try to brush some off. If necessary, use Bar Keeper's Friend and water to make into a solution to loosen the metal fine.

[cowboyardee]

"do all of their models work more or less the same, and if so, why are there so many models?"
_______
There are small differences in a lot of their models - the guiding system varies, the angles of the abrasives, etc. These don't seem to make a significant difference to how well they function in general, though I admit I haven't tried them all, there could be one that for whatever reason works much better than the rest. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if they were also now selling a carbide-shearing type sharpener among their pull through non-powered sharpeners, but if they are I haven't seen it.

"User reviews on Amazon for the Chef's Choice manual sharpeners are mostly quite positive so it's strange that you rate them so low. "
________
For one, keep in mind that my ratings are in comparison to other kinds of sharpeners, not an absolute score. I'm not saying that the Chefs Choice manual sharpeners are a piece of junk - just that they don't produce as sharp an edge as other viable at-home sharpening systems.

But more to the point, here's the thing about Amazon sharpener reviews: most people have never or else have rarely used a truly sharp kitchen knife. Likewise, a lot of people use knives that would not hold a really sharp edge even if they were skillfully sharpened by another means.

And coming from people whose knives have been dull for years, anything that gets them remotely sharp is going to get rave reviews. There are almost no sharpeners on Amazon that have bad reviews, and those only got bad reviews because they tend to break quickly.

"I have also noticed spring finger sharpeners (e.g. Furi) that almost seem like a twist on the wheel type sharpener. And then there is the F. Dick Rapid Steel ..." _______
No personal experience with either, but I wouldn't have high expectations. My guess is they would perform like the Chef's Choice wheel sharpeners.

I have a sort of theory, but I can't prove it: basically, I suspect that any abrasive sharpeners (in other words, the shearing types don't count) that sharpen both sides at the same time will have great difficulty forming a very sharp edge because they sort of undo their own work as they go. You wind up mashing the point into the abrasive. Also, abrasion causes burr formation (however tiny) and sharpeners that work both sides at the same time give that burr nowhere to go. In effect you can create a sharper edge out of a dull knife, but you can't create an extremely sharp, high performance edge like you can with a lot of other kinds of sharpeners. Can't prove it, but it's seemed the case to me with ever dual-sided sharpener I've ever tried.

"Some 30 years ago I bought the Spyderco sharpener... I should check if the course rods are available separately."
_________
You might even be able to get away with using a moderately coarse grit of wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around the triangular rods you already have. The 3m stuff you can get in an auto supply store. You would probably have to use stropping strokes (edge down, pulling the blade up) so as to not cut into the sandpaper.

As I said in that link, the sharpmaker works quite well as long as you don't let your knives get too dull.

"What's the best way to clean/resurface a ceramic hone? After a while the surface gets smoother and "clogged" with metal particles."
________
I'd probably start off with a stiff toothbrush and go from there. If that doesn't work, you can try some of the suggestions from this page:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...

[YossiD]

"I suspect that any abrasive sharpeners (in other words, the shearing types don't count) that sharpen both sides at the same time will have great difficulty forming a very sharp edge because they sort of undo their own work as they go."

I had actually been thinking much the same thing. If there are wheels sharpening both sides of the blade, I'd think it would be best to offset them so each one contacts the blade at a different point along its length. That way the blade can't bottom out where the wheels meet.

In any event, it almost sounds like you're saying that these wheel-type manual sharpeners do a decent job of forming a basic edge on dull knives but that they're not so good for applying a final finish. Since I have a good ceramic hone, the combination could provide me with a good overall solution at a decent price, and without having to spend too much time with stones.

The idea of sandpaper on the Spyderco rods is interesting and I think I'll give it a try. Probably emery cloth would be best since it won't tear as easily, and the grit generally adheres better than with paper.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[RudysEquipment_Supplies]

http://www.chefschoice.com/ phone #[phone]

Here is a email for a customer service rep.. Shhh didnt get it from me.
[e-mail]>