Edge Pro Apex

[twyst]

After years of getting my knives professionally sharpened I bit the bullet and bought myself an edge pro for christmas. When it comes to knife sharpening I definitely fall into the noob category and need some guidance from people who have experience with this thing. I understand the basics and put a nice 15 degree edge on some old henckles 4 stars I had packed away in a closet, but before I go to work on my shuns I have some questions. Should I be trying to keep the factory edge, or should I set a new edge? If keeping factory specs, how do I determine what the angle is? Do shun knives come with a double bevel and how do use the edge pro to make a double beveled edge?

[applehome]

I have the Edge Pro Pro - couldn't live without it. Good stuff from everybody, the only thing I didn't see answered was the question of how do you know what angle it's already got. You seem to have resolved the issue by re-profiling from scratch using the 120 - but if you ever need to do this for other blades, simply mark the edge (all the way in and across) with a black marker (sharpie). Using an extra-fine stone, start at the 20 mark and stroke just once - see where you hit and how much of the black is gone. Adjust the angle and try again until you're taking all or as much of the black out starting from the edge back. Since the Edge-Pro is infinitely adjustable, you can pretty much get it just right. I've also re-profiled everything - I do all Solingen steel at 15 except for the stamped Victorinox/Forschner, which I do at the 12.5 mark, along with most western style Japanese blades. But I do ask my friends what they want and often match the existing edge profile at their request.

[Dave5440]

the only thing I didn't see answered was the question of how do you know what angle it's already got.

I just left that part out because A-it's in the instruction manual and b-I wrongfully assumed everybody knew that trick.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Good stuff from everybody, the only thing I didn't see answered was the question of how do you know what angle it's already got...."

I answered in my first respond above:

"Most Shun knives have 15-16 degree bevel on both side. You can use the magic marker trick just to double check."

[twyst]

All I can say is wow! I put a 15 degree edge on my knife in minutes and its sharper than the the day it arrived. This thing is awesome.

I must have done something horribly wrong when sharpening my henckels, because despite the fact I put a 15 degree edge on it it doenst cut nearly as well. Guess Im going to have to start over on that knife!

[Chemicalkinetics]

"because despite the fact I put a 15 degree edge on it it doenst cut nearly as well. "

Two possible reasons:

First, your Henckels knife factory angle is between 20-22 degree. It will take you awhile to put a 15 degree edge, as you were probably just thinning behind the edge. Until you are able to form a burr, the grinding is hitting above the cutting edge. Were you able to feel a burr for the Henckels knives?

Second, your Henckels knives will not perform as well as your Shun knives at 15 degree. Shun steel is better.

[twyst]

"Were you able to feel a burr for the Henckels knives?"

Yes, I was definitely able to feel the burr on both sides, I spent at least a good hour working on that knife while the shun took about 10 minutes start to finish. Im pretty sure I just wasn't setting up the guide exactly right when doing the first knife on it as the section where you can see the sharpener ground some metal away goes further up the knife than the shuns. Just going to start over from scratch with the 120 stone tomorrow on that one I guess. Im pretty sure I somehow made that knife worse than it was when I started to sharpen it ><

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I spent at least a good hour working on that knife while the shun took about 10 minutes start to finish"

The first time always takes the longest. In the future, it will be like 5 minutes top.

"Im pretty sure I just wasn't setting up the guide exactly right"

No, I am pretty sure you set up the guide correct, and even if you didn't.....let's say you set up at 17 instead of 15 degree... big deal. You have hit the burr already.

"you can see the sharpener ground some metal away goes further up the knife than the shuns"

This just means your Henckels knives are thicker. The bevels always look wider (or further up) on a thicker knife, and your Henckels knives are thicker. This is normal. Here is a single bevel usuba, just look at how wide that bevel is -- yet it is also a 15-16 degree angle.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/re...

Like you said, give it another try. It is possible that you didn't deburr as well as you did for your Shun knives. Still your Shun knife is simply a better knife especially at 15 degree.

Man, what are you going to do when you find out your Shun knives are simply better. :P Would you divorce your Henckels?

[twyst]

{"Im pretty sure I just wasn't setting up the guide exactly right"

No, I am pretty sure you set up the guide correct, and even if you didn't.....let's say you set up at 17 instead of 15 degree... big deal. }

I dont mean the arm, I mean I think I had too much of the edge hanging over the lip of the machine. I guess in the end that would just affect the angle of the edge and would not be a factor either though, you are probably correct in that I just didnt go at it long enough

"Man, what are you going to do when you find out your Shun knives are simply better. :P Would you divorce your Henckels?"

Haha, I already divorced them, they have been in a roll in the closet for at least a couple of years. The fact that I dont use them at all is why I wanted to try them out forst to make sure I didnt screw anything up on my shuns :P

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I already divorced them, they have been in a roll in the closet for at least a couple of years. The fact that I dont use them at all is why I wanted to try them out forst to make sure I didnt screw anything up on my shuns"

First, you divorced her (Henckels knife), then you used her for your own amusement ..... You are a horrible man.

:P

[jkling17]

Congrats on that edgepro. I'm sure that you'll really enjoy it. If money were no object, I would have gotten that or the wicked edge. Perhaps someday ...

The Shuns come with a pretty acute angle to start with, so it's really up to you if you wish to reprofile them. My dmt kit doesn't allow me to set some of the very acute angles that your system can. About the lowest that I can do on my better 2" (or slightly less) knives is about 15/16 per side. Enjoy your sharpener!

[TeRReT]

i also have an edge pro and have struggled with deciding what edge to put on. I have been doing 18 degree edges on all my knives and it worked well, but i may try to get down to 15 degrees on my miyabi and see how it fares

[Chemicalkinetics]

Are you in Japan now?

[TeRReT]

no not yet, I will go january 23rd, have my tickets and visa so all set and excited, my girlfriend got me the saya for my miyabi for christmas, so was happy with that, looks something like
http://shop.zwilling.com/barcelona/im... but i will take a picture soon of it

[Chemicalkinetics]

Nice. :)

[Dave5440]

I forget which miyabi you have , but you should be able to take them to 10deg each side without to much problem

[twyst]

Thanks for the help guys, I knew either of you two or cowboy would be able to get me pointed in teh right direction. I guess Im going to start putting a new 15 degree edge on my chefs knife, Ill report in later and share my success or failure!

[Chemicalkinetics]

Dave is probably right. You do mean one bevel on top of another, right? In this case, just put one bevel first, and then the next. To answer your answer. Not, I don't believe Shun Classic knives have the two compound bevels -- unless you are counting the entire blade grind.

[Dave5440]

From reading shuns website I highly doubt they add a micro bevel, here's their summary.
BTW I love the extreme bevel part

• Kasumi Method of Knifemaking
• PakkaWood®
• Extreme 16° double-bevel blade (32° comprehensive)
• NSF Certified

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Extreme 16°"

Extreme probably means it is 16.00 degree accurate, whereas other companies have 16.1 or 15.9 degree. :) (it is a tongue in cheek joke)

[Dave5440]

I wouldn't call 32deg inclusive "extreme" 16 overall that's extreme!!

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Should I be trying to keep the factory edge, or should I set a new edge?"

That's really up to your preference. You can give a new edge a try if you like and switch back if it does not work out for you.

"If keeping factory specs, how do I determine what the angle is?"

Most Shun knives have 15-16 degree bevel on both side. You can use the magic marker trick just to double check.

"Do shun knives come with a double bevel and how do use the edge pro to make a double beveled edge?"

I am not 100% sure what you mean by double bevel now. Some people mean a double bevel as in a bevel on both side of the edge, while others mean a compound bevel -- a steeper bevel on top of a swallower bevel. Which one do you mean?

Most Shun knives, except a Shun Pro and a few other, have bevel on both sides of the blade.

[Dave5440]

My guess is you are refering to adding a micro bevel after the primary is done, if that's the case you do the main bevel first both sides , then just raise the angle and do the micro(or larger whatever you prefer) bevel on both sides .

[twyst]

"I am not 100% sure what you mean by double bevel now. Some people mean a double bevel as in a bevel on both side of the edge, while others mean a compound bevel -- a steeper bevel on top of a swallower bevel. Which one do you mean?"

Im referring to a compound bevel I guess. I know a lot of people recommend putting something like an 18 degree edge followed by a 15 degree back bevel etc. Does this achieve anything other than making the knife easier to maintain?

[Dave5440]

The second bevel needs to be steeper than the first to count as a micro bevel, but what you are describing is thinning behind the edge and might not be nessesary on your shun as I think the micro bevel isn't nessesary unless you go to 10deg per side

[Chemicalkinetics]

Dave is correct. In other words, it is more likely putting a 15 degree first, and then a 18 degree. Technically speaking, you can do it the other way around too, but it is much tougher to gauge your work.

"Does this achieve anything other than making the knife easier to maintain?"

It does a few things really. Let's say you have a 15/20 edge, this makes the edge more durable than a pure 15 degree edge and therefore last longer. It also provides a thinner area than a pure 20 degree edge and therefore less resistance during cutting.

I usually either put a very tiny microbevel or do not even put a one. The reason is that there are additional works for resharpening if I put a big compound bevel.

[Dave5440]

Here is a good site to glean some good info, I linked to edge types
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/kn...