BAGELS: NY or MONTREAL BETTER?

[foodlovergeneral]

I lived in NY and Montreal for several years each. Out of the oven, for me it's a toss up. THe NY is saltier, and much bigger. The Montreal is smokier and sweeter, and denser and I love that it's hand made, each one different than the next. But for a smoked salmon cream cheese and bagel experience, I can't tell you which one I prefer. I like the salitiness of NY, but I like the smokiness of Montreal. There is a faint taste of honey, which I understand comes from honey in the boling water in Montreal. I like the more cakey quality of NY, and I like the density of Montreal, which is akin to bagels in my native Chicago (a cross between NY and Montreal, perhaps). What do people say who have had both.

[freia]

Yay MONTREAL!!!! My fave...
Hey, I thought this thread was locked LOLOLOLOL

[devilishlyj]

I would have to say that they each are better for certain uses. I prefer a Montreal bagel for a snack or toasted with cream cheese. NY bagels are better for sandwiches since they slice better and are soft enough to hold a bunch of fixin's in.

[mangoannie]

I am biased as the bagel places in montreal are nearby so freshness never a problem. But why the hole, I would certainly vote for whoever made a bagel without a hole, much better for spreads and sandwiches. Surely there could be a technique for a bagel minus the hole!

[foodlovergeneral]

I think that the whole has some very important existential meaning that relates to beauty, completeness and existence vs. non-existence. ( I am quite sure the "hole" kept this discussion from being too angrily invested in this discussion as we were warned earlier by the Chowhound staff. The hole also makes it easier to hang the bagel on a coat hook when there is no better place. Further, the hole teaches us sensititivity since it mandates a greater level of dexterity applying spreads, and some sort of creativity when you are trying to place smoked salmon without losing the transparency of the hole. I hope this was helpful in clarifying the hole, which of course, needs little clarification as the hole is by it's nature clear.

[mangoannie]

oh kind of a zen moment and to keep eyehand coordination in check, knew there had to be significance for the raison d`etre!

[foodlovergeneral]

I realized, without a hole it become just a heavy bun, or a strange crumpet. That would be unfortunate, because it's quite a bit heavier than other buns, and the juices might not be well absorbed, making hamburger eating a bit un appetizing for those people who were unable at first glance to not be able to distinguish the difference. For those of us who buy our bagels at the grocery store, it's a much bigger problem, than for those of us who go to bagel shops. We would in fact know that we had gone to a bagel shop and had not to a bun store. So no problem there.

[Pia]

Montreal bagels have bigger holes. You, sir, are wearing an ugly hat!

[foodlovergeneral]

The holes are bigger; quite so. Montreal certainly wins thatt.

[Bob W]

Some places, in NYC and elswhere, now offer flagels -- flat bagels. They still have the hole, but there is much more surface area. Great for those who prefer the crust to the innards.

[Motosport]

I still can't figure out the "Flagel" phenomenom!! They never seem to have the crispier crust of a great bagel.

[prima]

More poppy seeds and/or sesame seeds seem to stick to a flagel- maybe that's part of its draw.

The Torontonian flagel seems to have a crispier crust than most of the half-decent (taking into consideration that you're in TO and not Mtl or NYC) Torontonian bagels. Maybe Toronto's strength is in its flagels ;-).

[mangoannie]

where do you buy flagels in Toronto, I know someone who misses Montreal bagels but maybe they would settle for a flagel if I could point them in that direction (:

[foodlovergeneral]

NYC has flagels too. I just saw them for the first time at Vic's bagels. Anthony Bourdain said something interesting about NYC vs. Montreal bagels-that it's like comparing apples and oranges-they are both great and wonderful in their own way.

[prima]

Bagel World flagels are available at Bagel World locations and Nortown Foods. I think I've also seen them at the Pusateri's in Bayview Village. I'll report back if I see them anywhere else.

If your friend is open to trying a Torontonian-made Montreal-style bagel, (as opposed to a Torontonian-style bagel like Gryfe's or Bagel World) try Bagel House ( http://www.thebagelhouse.ca/where.html ), for Toronto-made Montreal-style bagels. Bagel House locations are open 24 hours, so they're always pretty fresh.

[bagelman01]

I feel entitled to chime in here, note my user name....................

I have lived and worked in both Montreal and NY, and was born and raised in New Haven (birthplace of Lenders) and made handmade bagels after school in my youth.

For Hot out of the oven bagels, I prefer Montreal bagels from St. Viatuer. Sweet, not overly doughy with black or white seeds.

But more than two hours old, I much prefer that doughoer NY bagel (ala H&H). It holds it freshness longer due to the density of the dough and the size.

I prefer my NY bagels toasted, so it does not matter if they are not eaten within minutes of baking. I'll toast them the next morning. A Montreal Bagel the next morning is good for a hocky puck (Go Canadiens!!!) or a teething baby.

I do not eat lox or cream cheese so can not speak to which is better with those foods. I do like deli on a NY bagel, but do not find a Montreal bagel to be sandwich material,

[prima]

I like good Montreal bagels better than good NYC bagels, because I like the texture & sweetness of a Montreal bagel better than the texture & taste of a NYC bagel, but both are a treat, especially if you're living in a city that doesn't have access to either type!

[Motosport]

"you're living in a city" without good bagels??? OY!! My woist (Brooklynese) nightmare!!

[prima]

;-) Means I help drive the bagel economy when I visit NYC & Mtl!

[foodlovergeneral]

It's very kind of you to drive bagels anywhere.

[iluvcookies]

I live in NYC, so I have to say NY bagels or they'll make me move :)

In NYC it has to be NY bagels from H&H, or Tal, or Zabars, or even the little corner bagel shop. Outside of NY, they may try to be NY bagels, but they are not really the same at all.

However, when I go to Montreal, I wouldn't even try to find NY bagels. I have Montreal Bagels, preferably from St. Viateur.

[foodlovergeneral]

I am in your camp; both are a delight for me. I love NY bagels in NY. They taste better with the smell fo the air wafting off the Hudson, or the East River. In Montreal, the water from teh St Lawrence river really helps the bagels taste right. So I think fi I had a New York bagel in MOntreal, it would taste wrong. Howeer, the cream cheese in Montreal is awesome. Real cutlrues and tastes like a real milk product. New York's home made cream cheese at Zabars, for example, doesn't come close. And the plentiful "Philadelphia Brand" cream cheese tastes like plastic. But give Zabars it's due with it's amazing array of products. NY for smoked salmon is amazing. Russ and Daughters is the clear champ. Fairway and Zabars have many different kinds of smoked salmon and hand cutters who are great (not as great as Russ and Daughters).

[awm922]

NYC....H&H Bagels across from the Intrepid museum. Never found a better bagel than H&H...ever.

[Motosport]

We are bagel lovers Ess-a-bagel is our favorite with Vic's not far behind. We like the custom made cream cheese spreads @ Vic's Bagel Bar.
The last time we were in Montreal we hiked up the hill to Beauty's Luncheonette and had a bagel with lox and all the trimmings. It was fabulous and would compete with most bagel bakeries in Manhattan.
It's all good!! Not too many places outside of NYC to get a good bagel.

[small h]

New York, no question. Montreal bagels (and I've had them both in Montreal and in New York) are weird. Whereas New York bagels are normal.

- small h, NYC resident

[SnackHappy]

Folks, this thread is starting out as an innocent discussion on the merits of NY vs. Montreal bagels, but we've looked into the future and seen that it's going to get nasty and personal, so we're locking it down.

– The Chowhound Team

[bobbert]

Nice preemptive strike SnackHappy. Oh yeah, New York.

[brancron]

That's annoying.

[MattInNJ]

LoL, done this dance before have we?

[RhondaB]

IMHO, can't beat either Fairmont or St-Viateur bagels hot out of the oven or even later on day 1.