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What do you believe is the best butter you can get

l
littleprotege Nov 30, 2011 11:36 AM

I was looking to buy butter to use when baking and noticed what a significant difference the type of butter you use has on taste. So now im in search of the best butter. I know Thomas Keller serves Straus butter and butter from special cows at Animal Farm in Vermont but im not sure if he uses this in his cooking or if these are purely spreading butter for the table. Then I thought, why not a French butter like Eschire butter or Lescure butter which I heard is widely coveted by pastry chefs in France and I even saw Gordon Ramsay using it. Pretty soon I found myself looking at Danish butters like Lurpak. Im completely lost. Right now im leaning towards Lescure but if you have any other butters you swear by, feel free to mention them. I was actually trying to find out what type of butter Pierre Herme uses since hes such a legend but that did no good.

  1. Delucacheesemonger Nov 30, 2011 12:03 PM

    Living in Paris for a good part of the year, l buy Bordier doux au lait cru butter here, for finishing. If l cooked with it, it would lose most of the reasons for buying it in the first place. Similar to using Fleur de sel for cooking. On the other hand the higher fat content, read less water, is better for baking and the easiest way to get that in the states is by using Keller's, not Thomas, 'French' line called Plugra. Should be easily available. Try it, great for baking.

    3 Replies
    1. re: Delucacheesemonger
      l
      littleprotege Nov 30, 2011 12:44 PM

      CURSES!!!!! I now want Bordier butter. Reading about it made it sound so delicious and now I find out its nearly impossible to get it here. I envy you.

      1. re: Delucacheesemonger
        sunshine842 Nov 30, 2011 02:07 PM

        but then, Deluca, we're spoiled that way.

        1. re: Delucacheesemonger
          JoanN Dec 19, 2011 01:07 PM

          I made two batches of cookies a week apart. Same recipe, different butter. The first batch, I used 8 ounces of Plugra. The second batch, I used 7 ounces of Beurre d'Isigny. I was really surprised by how much better the second batch of cookies was. Perhaps I'd have been less aware of the difference if I'd made them months, rather than days, apart. The price of the Beurre d'Isigny might be prohibitive if one is doing a huge amount of baking; but for a special occasion, it will now replace Plugra, which had been my go-to.

        2. c
          ChiliDude Nov 30, 2011 12:07 PM

          We use unsalted butter from a couple of purveyors, whatever is on sale. I'm more interested in the special cows. I have a degree in Dairy Science from a Midwestern State University. What are special cows?

          I just accessed the Animal Farm of Orwell, VT website. The breed of cows pictured on the website are Jerseys, one of the 5 better known breeds in the US, but in the minority in numbers of herds of the 5 breeds. Jersey milk is higher in butterfat than that of Holstein-Freisian, Brown Swiss, Gurensey and Ayrshire.

          Altho Jerseys are a very good breed of dairy cattle, I haven't a clue why one would consider them 'special.'

          11 Replies
          1. re: ChiliDude
            l
            littleprotege Nov 30, 2011 12:41 PM

            the special cows?....its just what you're told when you ask about the butter when you dine at Per Se here in NYC. The butter that comes from Animal Farm actually comes from a very small herd of of cows so I guess it makes them more special in the sense of sentimental value as the owner even goes as far to name her cows. Regardless of the fact of whether the cows have anything to do with the butter quality, Animal Farm butter is more of a cult butter which is why im fascinated as to why Thomas Keller swears by it. I used to think butter is all the same but he seems to be finicky about what he uses. I guess finicky is what gets you the honor of being crowned best restaurant in the world which is why i put so much trust in Keller who advises you to use the best ingredients you can find.

            1. re: littleprotege
              c
              ChiliDude Nov 30, 2011 02:31 PM

              Interesting...it's all a marketing ploy. If I correctly recall, the butterfat content of milk from Jersey cows is about 5%, the other 4 well know breeds of dairy cows that I mentioned produce milk with the butterfat content about 2.5 to 4%. This may be old data because i got my degree in the 1960s.

              BTW, my wife likes Keller's butter.

              1. re: ChiliDude
                l
                littleprotege Nov 30, 2011 04:26 PM

                I doubt Thomas Keller would fall for a marketing ploy. I dont think Animal Farm would need a marketing ploy though seeing as Animal Farm almost exclusively sends all of their butter to both of Keller's restaurants. Per Se and The French laundry so the only way to taste it is by paying the $250 (not including drinks) to dine there. His restaurants wouldn't need a marketing ploy either as it is nearly impossible to get a seat there. Now that annoys me. So basically, the whole website was put up to say "haha....you cant have any".

                and lol...fine...i give in....im going for the Plugra haha.

                1. re: littleprotege
                  c
                  ChiliDude Dec 2, 2011 08:02 AM

                  I'm just a peasant who eats simple fare. Here's a marketing ploy for you. Supermarkets in my area have the word Angus associated with their more expensive beef. Most people are unaware that Angus is black (sometimes red) beef breed originally from Scotland. I wonder if anyone or any organization has done a taste test to see if Angus beef has a superior to beef from Herefords, Shorthorns, Charolais or even Brown Swiss, a dairy breed that is sometimes used for beef. I've had the good fortune to have dined on Brown Swiss steak at a college friend's family farm. Using the term 'special' about a familiar dairy breed like Jersey is a ploy to me.

                  As far as my culinary preferences are concerned, the word 'chili' in my Chowhound ID should give you a clue. My personal culinary motto is "Cook like a peasant, dine like a gourmet." Also, I belong to the "What if...?" school of cooking specializing in "Cuisine Impromptu." I'm not one to pay $250 for a meal at any restaurant. I do know about the reputation of the French Laundry in Yountville, CA.

                  1. re: ChiliDude
                    s
                    soupkitten Dec 2, 2011 08:49 AM

                    i think jerseys are special cows. we should recognize that certain heritage breeds of cattle and pigs and chickens are different and their milk, eggs and meat have distinct or "special" characteristics. the milk of a jersey cow does have different characteristics (higher butterfat) than the milk produced by the cows bred for quantity production over quality production, favored by the u.s. agricultural machine, and epitomized by "milk box" breeds such as holstein. jersey milk is better for best-quality cream, butter, and cheese. if you have ever seen a jersey cow beside a holstein, you will notice that they are physically much smaller than their cousin breeds. the proposition of smaller animals with smaller output/animal can mean more labor for the farmer, so you really have a minority of farmers choosing jersey cows. those that do choose them tend to trend toward the craft/artisan/farmstead producers, who also tend to have smaller herds which are gass-fed (jerseys are excellent grazers) and good farming practices with an emphasis on animal welfare and best-quality product. unfortunately this is increasingly very much the minority of milk production in this country, and runs counter to the prevalent factory farm model. imo there is no "marketing ploy" if there are real differences in the product. as a consumer if i'm picking up a dairy product, i want to know if it comes from jersey cows and in many/most cases i would be willing to pay a premium price for it, if it does. fwiw i think that the product of two identical animals can differ wildly due to farming practices/nurture/environment. if a cow, whether holstein or jersey, is raised on pasture, not bulked up with grain-based feeds/TMR, and not injected with growth hormones, while her sister is sent to a factory farm where the opposite is true, i am apt to call the milk product from the former cow "special" and from the other, not so much... or "normal"-- though it pains me to say this.

                    1. re: soupkitten
                      c
                      ChiliDude Dec 2, 2011 12:09 PM

                      Whoa soupkitten! The cattle that are grain-fed are beef cattle, not dairy cattle. I agree whole-heartedly with your premise about grain feeding. Cattle in general evolved as pasture fed animals. What goes on the humongous feed lots is a travesty.

                      I worked on a farm in northern Illinois that was in the artificial insemination business and had 130 dairy bulls. Cows were also on the farm for the purpose of setting milk production records, some of them being milked 3 times a day. There were 6 breeds of cows on the farm including Milking Shorthorns. The high producing cows were selected to be mated with bulls from high producing bloodlines to produce bulls for future stud service.

                      I have seen all the major dairy breeds. As a graduate student in the Dairy Science Department at a major Midwestern university, I had to handle dairy cattle on a weekly basis. My adviser was conducting a dairy cattle crossbreeding study. I had to take body measurements of the resulting hybrid heifers, and it was necessary to catch them by chasing them of foot while they were on pasture.

                      In case you didn't read all my posts, YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR!

                      1. re: ChiliDude
                        s
                        soupkitten Dec 5, 2011 06:23 PM

                        actually TMR is formulated specifically for dairy cows and it contains grain and other feed supplements. dairy cattle are increasingly raised on these feeds, sometimes exclusively.

                        glad we are of the same opinion on grain-feeding and cattle confinement. . . i was not intending to preach to anyone, merely point out that the dairy segment of industrialized agriculture is growing, and not necessarily in a way that benefits the consumer or the animals. the old-fashioned norm of animal husbandry is in many cases the exception. but your posts leave me confused as to what you would consider "special" cattle to be, if indeed you think any cattle would qualify as "special." if it is not how the cattle are raised, then what? a very obscure heritage breed? cattle trained to do tricks? ;-P

                  2. re: littleprotege
                    r
                    ratgirlagogo Dec 4, 2011 09:07 AM

                    I don't know if Thomas Keller would fall for a marketing ploy either, but I'm pretty sure he's not above using one. Otherwise it would be hard to get people to wait months for reservations and pay high prices once they got there. This is not a criticism, just an observation. You sell the sizzle, not the steak, no matter how good your steak is.

                    As far as "special cows" go, Per Se is the restaurant that had on its menu that Constant Bliss cheese from Jasper Hill Farms in Vermont was a "single cow" cheese, that single cow being a very special girl named Agatha. It turned out that Keller (or his staff) had misunderstood the whimsical labelling of the Kehler brothers - there is, of course, no such thing as a single cow cheese and they were not claiming any such thing. Kind of embarrassing for Per Se.

                    1. re: ratgirlagogo
                      c
                      ChiliDude Dec 5, 2011 10:48 AM

                      Thank you for your input. Advertising is a slick business.

              2. re: ChiliDude
                j
                juli5122 Nov 30, 2011 12:55 PM

                My mom grew up on a farm in Maine and her mother made the best butter around and she swore it was because of the Jersey cow. Wish I had some now :)

                1. re: juli5122
                  coll Dec 1, 2011 03:18 AM

                  Jersey cows rule!

              3. v
                vafarmwife Nov 30, 2011 12:12 PM

                Mine is the butter I get from neighbor who makes it fresh from the milk from her little brown Swiss cow. I grew up on farm, live on farm and would like to know about these special cows too.

                1. k
                  karykat Nov 30, 2011 12:14 PM

                  I think the best butter you can get is going to depend on where you are. In our area there are now small craft dairies that make butters in small batches that are I think only available (I think) in our region. So, for example, here we have Hope butter and Rochdale Farms butter.

                  I'd rather buy something made fresh and probably not shipped and stored for a long time.

                  2 Replies
                  1. re: karykat
                    s
                    soupkitten Nov 30, 2011 02:50 PM

                    pastureland is also exceptionally good. the high butterfat hope butter for baking/pastry, available through the heartland deli case, is certainly world class. the thing about a local premium butter like hope is that it is never frozen for shipping outside of the region or the country. all imported butters have been frozen, as have --unless i am mistaken-- all nationally distributed butters.

                    plugra is kind of crappy, actually. imo.

                    1. re: soupkitten
                      k
                      karykat Nov 30, 2011 10:54 PM

                      Yes, I agree about pastureland.

                      And about the freezing. Almost everything made in quantity is frozen.

                      I think too that your preferences in butter depend on whether you like it cultured or fresh. To me the fresh uncultured tastes sweeter. But lots of people like the cultured. Which has more of a tang to it, I think.

                  2. biondanonima Nov 30, 2011 12:23 PM

                    My favorite "gourmet" butter that I can find in NYC is from New Zealand, called Anchor. It's like crack to me, although other people to whom I have introduced it aren't always as enthusiastic. I think most of the higher end butters you can find in the grocery store (i.e., Lurpak, Kerrygold, Plugra, etc.) are going to be a step up from Land o' Lakes in terms of flavor, but I find their best qualities are generally lost in cooking so I tend to use them only for actual buttering of bread.

                    3 Replies
                    1. re: biondanonima
                      m
                      Muchlove Nov 30, 2011 11:26 PM

                      You consider those high end?! Guess things are different in the US. In the UK, especially in the west country, we considered those average or crappy (haven't heard of plugra though). We bought good unsalted butter from reasonably local cows, often organic. My mum hated buying non-british butter!

                      Here in India I make my own butter as it is very easy and better than the crappy Amul butter sold in stores.

                      1. re: Muchlove
                        biondanonima Dec 1, 2011 08:31 AM

                        Well, I wouldn't call them truly high end - but they are the best butters available in most regular grocery stores (i.e., Pathmark, Shop and Stop, Key Food, etc.). To get anything better, you'll have to go to Whole Foods/Zabars/Fairway/specialty markets.

                      2. re: biondanonima
                        greedygirl Dec 6, 2011 06:43 AM

                        Anchor is a pretty standard butter in the UK, as is Kerrygold and Lurpak. We don't have Plugra. The best butters here tend to be from farmer's markets, or the French ones from Normandy.

                      3. splatgirl Nov 30, 2011 12:29 PM

                        I think it depends on what you want to do with it.
                        For baking in things that really depend on butter like croissants and danish, I like Plugra from someplace with good turnover so it's reasonably fresh. Lurpak would be my second choice, and Kerrygold in a pinch. Those are basically the only three high butterfat butters I have good access to locally. For other more basic baking--cookies, etc.--I use the organic salted butter from Costco (I go through way more than I care to think about) If it's something where the butterfat content is not as critical but I still need really great, fresh butter flavor--shortbread comes to mind--I use organic from a localish dairy that I get at the co-op.
                        The best butter I have eaten outside of France is Rochdale Farms hand rolled Summer Butter, in season and fresh.

                        7 Replies
                        1. re: splatgirl
                          s
                          Scribbler Nov 30, 2011 12:50 PM

                          when I am in Sarasota FL visiting my mother, we go to the Amish farmer's market and get the butter that they make there. I'm not much of a baker, so when I have some "special" butter, I use it on bread or toast. In NY I use Kerrygold.

                          1. re: Scribbler
                            j
                            juli5122 Nov 30, 2011 12:57 PM

                            I live in St. Pete and never think of going down there for a farmers market , thanks for the tip

                          2. re: splatgirl
                            l
                            littleprotege Nov 30, 2011 01:00 PM

                            Okay...you're the second to mention Plugra. It must be good. I guess i'll test both Lescure and Plugra by making two recipes of Brioche. Hopefully my family is in the mood for bread this upcoming week lol.

                            1. re: littleprotege
                              splatgirl Dec 1, 2011 08:27 AM

                              One of the reasons I choose Plugra over the smaller dairy brands for croissants is that it performs PREDICTABLY, which can't always be said of smaller source butters. I've lost more than a few pounds of really great tasting, uber high quality butter to sad croissants because the butterfat content just wasn't high enough, so now I stick to what I know is will be good AND work. I also think the cultured vs. not is a huge deal for croissants--the culture butter flavor is one of the elements that makes a proper croissant, IMO.
                              So all of that said, laminated doughs are the only type I've really been able to do a side by side comparison. Brioche, IME, seems to be more forgiving of water content, so you may find that a less corporate brand is tastier, KWIM?

                              1. re: splatgirl
                                j
                                JudiAU Dec 2, 2011 11:06 AM

                                Very good point. When baking, handmade small batch butter needs to perform the same way. THe most hilarious experiement I ever did was to make butter by hand (wonderful) and then bake with it.

                                Sad.

                            2. re: splatgirl
                              k
                              karykat Nov 30, 2011 10:51 PM

                              I talked to one of the Rochdale Farms people at a sampling at our coop and she said one thing that makes their butter different is that it's never frozen. Just made in small quantities and shipped fresh. She said that everything else is made in large quantities and frozen sometimes for extended times. She said that made a quality taste different.

                              1. re: karykat
                                splatgirl Dec 1, 2011 08:16 AM

                                Totally taste-able. It's so, so good. I snap it up whenever I can, and it causes me to eat way too much homemade sourdough bread!

                            3. EM23 Nov 30, 2011 01:11 PM

                              Here are a couple of past discussions.
                              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/385951
                              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/474789

                              I like both Kerry Gold and Lurpak for baking and the higher end stuff for eating on bread.

                              1. coll Dec 1, 2011 03:24 AM

                                Here on Long Island, I can often find an Italian DOP imported butter than is made from the cows that provide parmesan cheese. It's too good to bake with, I use it for buttering bread and very special dishes, where butter is king. Sorry I can't remember the brand, it's roundish, wrapped in wax paper with pictures on cows on it. But it's often available at both of my local supermarkets, and not ridiculously expensive.

                                Schaller and Weber used to sell their butter, wrapped the same way, to the local poultry farm. They do a small retail trade. I would go there just to get that. Then one day I walk in and they have a display case of Breakstone. How sad.

                                1. RAGHOUND Dec 1, 2011 08:02 AM

                                  Here's what our friends at Cooks Illustrated have to say after doing a taste test of unsalted butters - http://www.cooksillustrated.com/taste...

                                  1. s
                                    samj530 Dec 2, 2011 05:07 PM

                                    I really think the key to great butter is freshness, organic grass grazed cows & that it is made from raw milk.

                                    1. s
                                      sghdr Dec 2, 2011 05:47 PM

                                      A tip is to squeeze UNSALTED butter in its box/package you want butter that does NOT appear to be soft you want it has hard as possible. This means there is LESS water in it and it will have the most flavor. I never buy salted butter, salt is only used as a preservative, you can always add salt to what you need it for and can control the amount.

                                      13 Replies
                                      1. re: sghdr
                                        j
                                        jkling17 Dec 2, 2011 06:14 PM

                                        At the risk of being flamed, I honesty really like Land O Lakes butter. To me, it tastes very buttery and is reasonably priced. At further risk of enduring more flames, I also only buy the salted butter :-)

                                        1. re: jkling17
                                          k
                                          karykat Dec 3, 2011 04:23 PM

                                          I like Land o Lakes too. Very sweet butter.

                                          1. re: jkling17
                                            g
                                            GH1618 Dec 3, 2011 06:38 PM

                                            Nothing wrong with liking Land O' Lakes butter. Julia Child said it was her favorite (in Julia's Kitchen Wisdom). But why use salted butter?

                                            I buy Challenge (unsalted) for cooking, but only because I know where to get it in one-lb bricks.

                                            1. re: GH1618
                                              j
                                              jkling17 Dec 5, 2011 03:20 PM

                                              I guess that I only buy the salted one out of habit. In the days where I actually still ate toast, the salted butter just "tasted right" to me. When I use it with cooking, it simply means that I'm using less salt later on. I don't know if it's right or wrong - it's just what I do.

                                            2. re: jkling17
                                              l
                                              lisaonthecape Dec 5, 2011 03:15 PM

                                              Actually, the Land O Lakes performed pretty well in the Cooks Illustrated test mentioned above by Raghound. It's what I generally use as well, although I do stick with the unsalted.

                                            3. re: sghdr
                                              coll Dec 3, 2011 03:19 AM

                                              Something I've noticed the last two Decembers when I go to make baked goods. For holiday goodies, I always buy the cheap stuff since I need so much, but recently I am noticing a lot more water added. When you go to melt it, it actually bubbles like water boiling rather than melting down into its components, it's very noticeable. I rethink my buying strategy every time I see it happen, maybe this will be the year for a change. Just saw it again last night when making burnt icing. I will definitely be using your tips at the very least.

                                              1. re: coll
                                                s
                                                sghdr Dec 5, 2011 01:16 PM

                                                The cheap UNSALTED butters will have the most water in it. Land O Lakes of the national brands would be the best and there are other regional or gourmet butters out there but the test is squeezing them, the harder the better. If you can make an indention with your fingers as you press them into the box it means it has more water. Just test all of the UNSALTED butter brands in the refrigerated case and then one that is the hardest to squeeze will have the most flavor. My tip comes from a man who owns and operates a French patisserie and they know about quality ingredients.

                                                1. re: sghdr
                                                  sunshine842 Dec 5, 2011 01:26 PM

                                                  Do keep in mind that this depends heavily on the temperature at which the butter is being kept. The warmer the butter, the softer it will be...regardless of the water content.

                                                  It's absolutely true if the butter is very cold...but if it's in the front of the case, it may well have warmed up several degrees, which would make it more malleable than the stuff at the back of the shelf.

                                                  1. re: sunshine842
                                                    coll Dec 5, 2011 02:58 PM

                                                    Having been in the business, I am amazed at how little I know about butter.

                                                    1. re: coll
                                                      sunshine842 Dec 5, 2011 10:39 PM

                                                      that wasn't directed at you, nor was it a question of anything about you.

                                                      It was out there for someone who might remember your advice, but not think about the temperature issue (because we all have more on our minds than just butter), and reject an acceptable butter that had been sitting at the front of the shelf over a lesser butter sitting at the back of the shelf and therefore very cold.

                                                      1. re: sunshine842
                                                        coll Dec 6, 2011 02:46 AM

                                                        I am being serious. I'm starting to realize how adulterated butter can be, never considered it before. Think I'll be using LOL or Breakstone as my lowest common denominator from now on. You get cheap butter, because you're paying for water! I won't be squeezing the butter (or the Charmin) anytime soon.

                                                        1. re: coll
                                                          sunshine842 Dec 6, 2011 11:53 AM

                                                          Oh. Sorry, I read that as snark....

                                                  2. re: sghdr
                                                    s
                                                    sghdr Dec 19, 2011 10:32 AM

                                                    My knowledge of unsalted butter is for baking only. The harder it is the less water is contained, therefore more flavor and more flaky dough(puff, danish etc)

                                              2. b
                                                bpjacks Dec 4, 2011 06:08 AM

                                                I live in Northern New England and generally buy Kate's butter -- local (made in southern Maine) and available from any grocery store. It's yummy stuff.

                                                1. greygarious Dec 4, 2011 10:00 AM

                                                  This has been discussed on General Chowhounding: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/430319, http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/474789, http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/385951, http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/284802, http://www.chow.com/search?query=%22b...

                                                  1. g
                                                    gourmanda Dec 19, 2011 01:12 PM

                                                    Not sure where you are located but if you are ever in NE Ohio, the best butter you can buy for flavor is from Hartzler Dairy in Wooster, OH.

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