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Cracked Granite. They say normal. I say BS. What do you think??

duckspanked Nov 18, 2011 09:02 PM

Installed by a granite company in Woodinville, Washington.

This company also sells very expensive Cad imaging software to fabricators. They can not stop talking about how they are the best and that no one can provide an end result like the one they can because of this amazing software.

Take a look and tell me what you think. In the pictures you will see there is a visible split/gap. Meaning you can stick your finger nail in the crack and feel a crack. This is not a mark in the stone that is visible below the surface it is a crack. I can be felt at the edge and can be felt below just prior to mesh material glued to the bottom of the stone. The glue and mesh cover the crack so it is not visible from below but it is there no doubt in my mind.

They say it is normal and it is part of the beauty of the stone. I say BS. I spent 8,000.00 to have this stone installed.

What do you think of this amazing enhancement to the stone?

  1. Pedr0 Nov 25, 2011 03:36 PM

    In truth fissures like the ones in your top are somewhat typical. The area where the crack occurred is a part of the cooling process under which the stone is formed and is usually a pretty weak part of the material. The fewer fissures, the less likely that cracking will occur, like with absolute black granite. I'm not saying that what you got is acceptable but you ought to take a second look at what you signed off on with your fabricator.

    1 Reply
    1. re: Pedr0
      Veggo Nov 25, 2011 03:47 PM

      For $ 8 large, one is paying for rock that survived the cooling process - a few billion years ago - without incident.

    2. Veggo Nov 22, 2011 05:35 PM

      I expect that your $8000 of granite surfaces included numerous monolithic pieces. Have you calculated the percentage this one piece was of the whole job? That is the portion that is in dispute, if it can be replaced with marble of similar appearance.

      1. w
        white light Nov 22, 2011 05:23 PM

        Why is there mesh material glued to the bottom of the stone then... is that normal? Our granite doesn't have that nor does anyone's else I've noticed. It's there to repair the CRACK in the stone. Don't settle for anything less than full replacement. I went through something similar and it was a headache but get it done right.

        2 Replies
        1. re: white light
          mikie Nov 23, 2011 08:37 AM

          We went to five different stone yards and two different fabricators that had slabs stored indoors, of all the granite we looked at, the vast majority had mesh on the back side. This is there to keep fissures from turning into cracks. This is probably more common on more exotic granite patterns, where inclusions are part of what you are paying big bucks for. We have St. Cecila in our upstairs bath, not sure if it has it or not, it's a fairly common granite and not exotic. The kitchen is going to be in Barricato, and exotic, that does have a mesh backing on it. The mesh allows them to ship and fabricate stone patterns that would have otherwise been too fragile. This makes more patterns of granite available.

          The fabricator in this case photographs the stone and manipulates the pattern on the computer to get the best look with the stone that's available. This is then transfered to the computer that opperates the cutter. Kind of like a CNC for granite machining. We'll probably be looking at it on Tuesday.

          1. re: white light
            freia Nov 23, 2011 11:46 AM

            I think mesh on the bottom or underneath stone like this is more about how the stone is set into place. I recall buying our stone slabs for a bathroom bench, and the webbing fused on the bottom had to do with using adhesives to put the stone in place. If your stone is set in place with mortar, no mesh is needed. I think. And that's what I recall. I don't think it has to do with repairing the stone as our slabs (4 ft x 2 ft and 6ft x 2 ft) both were uncracked, unfissured, and have the mesh on the bottom. Hopefully someone with stone experience can enlighten us?

          2. m
            mikie Nov 22, 2011 02:11 PM

            I'll assume you and your wife pick out the slab at the fabricator's shop or at a stone yard, I'll also assume the crack, or whatever they want to refer to it as, was not there when you picked your stone. In which case, you didn't get what you picked out, even if it's the same stone. If you purchase a car from a dealer with no dents when you pick it out, you don't expect it to be damaged when you pick it up. I would say the same applies to the granite counter top.

            Btw, our granite installer was out to measure today, we will inspect the slabs again prior to fabrication, I don't anticipate such a situation, but then we had quartz put in our master bath and that had to be replaced as there was a "defect" they tried to pass off and after much insistance and a botched repair, they finally replaced.

            6 Replies
            1. re: mikie
              Chemicalkinetics Nov 22, 2011 02:22 PM

              "...there was a "defect" they tried to pass off ..."

              Enhancement. They were trying to upgrade your quartz.

              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                mikie Nov 22, 2011 02:43 PM

                As a result I believe a couple of people involved were up graded to unemployed! Of all the places to have a "natural enhancement" in a man-made product, it was right next to my wife's sink, where she spent a lot of time just looking at this black spot on her tanish counter top. It was obvious to me that a foreign object had gotten in their mix and it was not supposed to be there. It's tougher to pull off that natural part of the material crap when it's man made.

                This quote is right off the fabricator's web site: "Marble, Travertine, and Granite as well as the other stone we carry are products of nature. Some stones naturally have fissures, some contain illusions, or pits as a result of their geological formation in the earth. These are not flaws and will be sold as a quality product." So although a fissure is a natural part of the stone, a crack, is not in my opinion. I will have a very close inspection within the next few days. I think it's important to stress, if it's not there when you picked it out, it's not a natural part of the stone but a crack. By defination a fissure is a crack of sorts, however it should not be through the stone and should not be actually raised or open.

                My money says the fabricator will not give in easily to replace the stone. Doesn't mean they won't but it's going to be a struggle.

              2. re: mikie
                wekick Nov 23, 2011 05:07 AM

                I picked out my slab(soapstone) and I also went out when it was templated and and had some input into the layout.

                1. re: wekick
                  scubadoo97 Nov 23, 2011 06:47 AM

                  After we picked out our granite, they came out to "template". When they brought in the very large corner piece it didn't fit. My contractor said oh your walls aren't at 90*. They had it wedged in and had to take a sledge hammer to break it up to remove it. I'm like don't you know what the word template means. Dumb f**ks. We ended up with slabs we didn't pick out. Not the prettiest pieces in the run since those got smashed and removed but it's all water under the bridge now. I envy people that have big construction jobs and everything goes without a hitch. Never happened to me.

                  1. re: scubadoo97
                    wekick Nov 23, 2011 07:17 AM

                    My stone people were great. They came out and made mat board templates or patterns that fit perfectly. I had to sign off on them. I went out to the stone yard and put them where I wanted them on the stone. Evidently NO ONE does this though. That was all great. but my appliances were a nightmare if that makes you feel any better. ;-)

                    1. re: wekick
                      scubadoo97 Nov 23, 2011 07:29 AM

                      Just had granite installed in a bathroom that was gutted and redone. The new granite co. we used made a template from foam board. Like yours, a real template. All went well with that part of the job.

              3. BiscuitBoy Nov 21, 2011 11:54 AM

                So when the installers walked away, the crack was there? In that case I'd be asking for a discount, as that is the quickest and easiest remedy for both parties...'specially if you didn't specify cracked material. Or did it crack AFTER the install? It's a natural product and it doesn't look bad to me...Any patch or attempt to conceal is gonna make it worse.

                6 Replies
                1. re: BiscuitBoy
                  scubadoo97 Nov 21, 2011 12:49 PM

                  Looks like the Nile river to me

                  1. re: scubadoo97
                    duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 01:12 PM

                    Yes, I caught my wife fishing out of it this morning. She looked hot in her pink rubber hip-waders. LOL! Fish on!

                    1. re: duckspanked
                      freia Nov 21, 2011 01:16 PM

                      OOOH, now we can debate whether the fish that has been in your countertop for DAYS is safe to eat! LOLOLOL

                  2. re: BiscuitBoy
                    duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 01:10 PM

                    to answer your question, the crack was apparent after the install the next day. I'm not sure if you and I are looking at the same photo. The $8,000 crack I see in my photo I posted is not appealing or enhancing the appearance of my countertops.

                    1. re: duckspanked
                      BiscuitBoy Nov 22, 2011 01:44 PM

                      yeah, I saw it...what did they offer to do? I'm thinking a full replacement is outta the question for them

                      1. re: BiscuitBoy
                        scubadoo97 Nov 22, 2011 05:02 PM

                        Full replacement is the only thing I would expect and demand. They didn't pay a bargain basement price and shouldn't have to live with a repair job.

                  3. f
                    FattyDumplin Nov 21, 2011 11:09 AM

                    The board has been pretty one-sided in their advice, so I'm not adding anything new... although I do not know anything about granite countertops, I'm amazed they would try to pass this off as a "postiive".

                    That being said, I'd echo someone's advice about making sure you document everything. In fact, you mentioned that they aren't responding to calls and that is great, because everything will be recorded on email. Give them a couple weeks and if they are being non-responsive, I would definitely forward a complaint to the local attorney general's office and I would reach out to your local councilperson's office as well - they are all about protecting their constituents and this seems like a pretty clear and cut case. not sure how it works in Washington, but at least in NYC, small claims court amounts are limited to $5k, so in this case, you'd come out on the losing end. And it's a hassle to litigate, so the best thing to do is to use your local elected officials to apply some pressure.

                    Good luck.

                    1. i
                      Island Nov 21, 2011 10:53 AM

                      No way that's a crack and unacceptable. I wouldn't buy a slab with that and I wouldn't accept it if it showed up on install. I've had granite for 10 years without any problems or kid glove treatment. My sister recently redid her kitchen and the granite slab for her island was installed with a big crack that wasn't there when she bought it. Tried to slide it by hoping she wouldn't notice I guess, but not a chance. She made them replace it. They came back with the same slab with the crack filled. She inspected it before they installed it again and was furious. She stood her ground and had them replace it with a new slab and they did. Her's wasn't even that noticable, but your's is obvious even from this picture. That needs to be replaced it at their expense!
                      Good luck and please post back with the outcome.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: Island
                        duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 11:14 AM

                        My wife and I could not agree more, and we will find no "satisfaction" in a patch job! We think the crack is pretty obvious as well...I'm hoping this company isn't serious when they continue to refer to it as a "vein". They'll be at the house Tuesday to "assess". and I hope their "team of professionals" can tell the difference between a vein and a crack. TBD...

                      2. f
                        freia Nov 21, 2011 07:02 AM

                        You gotta let us know what happened! Update! :)

                        2 Replies
                        1. re: freia
                          duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 11:11 AM

                          They said they would call me Friday morning.....and around 5:30pm, my wife called them. She suggested they call me when she got off the phone, but they said they would call me first thing in the morning to discuss the issue and scheule a time to get back to look the the stone. Morning passed (again) with no call and my wife contacted the sales rep at 5:pm and she said they would call Monday morning. Monday morning, we woke up to an email stating that they will be out to the house on Tuesday. I asked if they were going to assess it or make a repair or other....??? we were unsure of what exactly they intended to do....so we asked. And this is their reply.....and
                          [granite company response]
                          "They will asses and repair if needed. As far as we know it’s just a vein but Chad and his crew will be there to see what they can do to satisfy".

                          There's your update so far.

                          1. re: duckspanked
                            freia Nov 21, 2011 11:18 AM

                            Fingers crossed...lets hope Chad knows his stuff...:)

                        2. Breadcrumbs Nov 21, 2011 06:53 AM

                          This is definitely a crack.

                          Is this by chance "Earth Glitter" aka "Cosmos" granite? Hard to tell from your photo but we're shopping for granite at the moment and I had my heart set on this one but our supplier/contractor said to "absolutely stay away from it" Evidently it's softer than most and susceptible to cracking and chipping (hence the mesh backing). He said it doesnt cut well and after working w it once, he'd never touch it again.

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: Breadcrumbs
                            duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 11:04 AM

                            No it is neither Earth Glitter or Cosmos. It is Mombasa.

                          2. j
                            jkling17 Nov 19, 2011 10:14 PM

                            Yep that's a crack. Hopefully you haven't paid them in full yet. Start putting EVERYTHING to them in writing - that will also tell them without saying it - that you are starting to take next steps and if they don't fix it, that you will have proof that you have given them adequate opportunity to make it right, before you take them to court.

                            You also need to look at your PAPERWORK. Make sure that you didn't SIGN SOMETHING that says something like "I understand that we are buying a natural stone product, and as such acknowledge that there can be variations, fissures, cracks, etc - and all these are considered part of the natural beauty of the material".

                            Cover your butt and BEST OF LUCK!!!

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: jkling17
                              duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 11:01 AM

                              So far everything has pretty much been in email (since they wont return calls).

                            2. r
                              redbeanbun Nov 19, 2011 08:26 PM

                              I also call BS on the whole "enhancement" comment. I've seen this before and I'm guessing it appeared some time after installation. Before the next piece is installed make sure the surface it's resting on is flat and level. Large granite pieces are heavy and any un-evenness (either on the underside of the granite or the surface it's resting on) can act as a fulcrum and create a very specific crack. Eventually, it may crack all the way through. BTW, what is that installed into the cabinet section right under the crack?

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: redbeanbun
                                duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 11:00 AM

                                Good Information. To answer your question. I removed the top drawer and you can see the opening for a garbage insert at the lower cabinet.

                              2. Chemicalkinetics Nov 19, 2011 06:26 PM

                                I think this amazing enhancement of the stone is ....

                                You should tell them that you don't want enhancement. You just want plain stupid looking flat granite stone. Tell them that you are a boring person and you only want a boring stone. Anything "exciting" like this is just too much, and such an art piece deserves someone who can appreciate it -- you are not the one.

                                1 Reply
                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                  duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:53 AM

                                  LOVE IT! I completely agree...We are considering letting them have their stone back... (at our expense), so they can appreciate their own natural beauty in their showroom. They can proudly display their "enhanced stone features" to new clients visting their granite shop daily. Guarenteed they will not take our offer. HUMMMM.....

                                2. f
                                  freia Nov 19, 2011 06:11 PM

                                  Totally a crack. I'd be seriously upset and do whatever necessary to get that replaced. 8K, it shouldn't have a crack.

                                  1 Reply
                                  1. re: freia
                                    duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:49 AM

                                    Hello! YES...THANK YOU!

                                  2. wekick Nov 19, 2011 05:56 PM

                                    This would be unacceptable to me. It looks like a crack to me. If you roll pastries out or with other food preparation you could have food down in the crack and it just seems it wouldn't be sanitary.

                                    1 Reply
                                    1. re: wekick
                                      duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:48 AM

                                      Totally agreed!

                                    2. s
                                      Sydneyeats Nov 19, 2011 03:11 PM

                                      That amazing enhancement is a crack and not a fissure. I had something similar happen a few years ago when my slabs were installed. After a major pissing match on both parts, they replaced the slab on their dime. Hopefully you haven't paid them in full.

                                      Your granite is beautiful by the way....love it!

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: Sydneyeats
                                        duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:47 AM

                                        I'm hoping we don't need to get into a "pissing match" and the company will just resolve this matter realizing the slab has a defect. However, I'm drinking plenty of fluids so I'm getting prepared. LOL!

                                      2. s
                                        sueatmo Nov 19, 2011 03:10 PM

                                        They need to make this right. Call and complain to the local BBB, and write a letter to Angie's List, even if they aren't registered in either. Also, if they are members of a stone installer association, report them there. You could also look into how to start a small claims suit, but I wouldn't do this until everything else had failed. Keep records of every communication you have with them from now on. What a pain in the neck!

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. re: sueatmo
                                          duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:45 AM

                                          Thanks for the suggestions. Making up the BBB will go unanswered unless they are a member, however Angie's list is a site that is growing in popularity and will consider remarking on it if necessary.

                                        2. j
                                          jpc8015 Nov 19, 2011 08:35 AM

                                          When I was growing up my dad built high end custom homes, most of which had granite counter tops. I have seen dozens of granite counters. This is not acceptable.

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: jpc8015
                                            duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:43 AM

                                            Thanks for your confirmation. I agreee. Me and my wife are in the industry of Real Estate and have seen our share of "normal" granite countertops. We've also had it in two of our previous homes with no "fissure enhancements" or "veins" or "cracks" for that matter.

                                          2. p
                                            pharmnerd Nov 19, 2011 08:20 AM

                                            Doesn't look right to me and may worsen over time as the slab settles. At min, they should repair it. A good installer can probably conceal it with some type of colored joint compound (mastic?). I've seen good and bad joint concealing jobs, so beware. I'd ask for some type of discount if they go this route. Good luck.

                                            1 Reply
                                            1. re: pharmnerd
                                              duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:41 AM

                                              I will be asking for a discount regardless of the method of repair.

                                            2. CindyJ Nov 19, 2011 06:46 AM

                                              I hope you haven't yet paid in full. Dollars owed usually provides some amount of leverage.

                                              1 Reply
                                              1. re: CindyJ
                                                duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:39 AM

                                                Thank goodness the last payment is still in my bank account!

                                              2. scubadoo97 Nov 19, 2011 06:27 AM

                                                Fissure or not make them replace it. I know we picked out our slab on site. On the several times we picked granite we picked our slab on site. One at least one occasion I questioned if we got the slab we selected but there were no obvious flaws. This is pretty significant and unless you are turned on but the rustic look then make them replace it. It would make a great consumer segment on the local news. Put their reputation to the test. Love to see the newscaster quoting their "we're the best" with a video of your granite.

                                                1 Reply
                                                1. re: scubadoo97
                                                  duckspanked Nov 21, 2011 10:38 AM

                                                  Thanks for the suggestion--that is a likely scenario to get the response I would like. I'm waiting for them to come and "assess" the "vein"--as they referred to it as after seeing my photos.

                                                2. c
                                                  calliope_nh Nov 18, 2011 10:28 PM

                                                  I found this article describing fissures and cracks. Sounds like fissures are not unusual, though I would probably select a slab without any visible. The site does say you should NOT be able to catch a fingernail in a fissure. I think the company is trying to convince you that is what you have. I lean toward the BS. Was it installed with the crack in it?

                                                  1 Reply
                                                  1. re: calliope_nh
                                                    duckspanked Nov 19, 2011 12:58 AM

                                                    Read the article. Article states a fissure is never only in one place. It is in only one place. It also states you should not be able to catch a finger nail or business card in it. I can catch a finger nail in it. So if this article is correct it is a crack not a fissure.

                                                  2. SanityRemoved Nov 18, 2011 10:11 PM

                                                    Unless you ordered the Venus de Milo model I would be furious. Invite some local news crews to your house.

                                                    2 Replies
                                                    1. re: SanityRemoved
                                                      duckspanked Nov 19, 2011 01:07 AM

                                                      Trust me I agree with you. The first thing they said was it's fissure even before seeing my pictures. Sounds like fissure is the common BS line used in this industry.

                                                      1. re: duckspanked
                                                        SanityRemoved Nov 19, 2011 05:51 AM

                                                        The fissure excuse that is being adopted really shows the lack of pride and craftsmanship that has become commonplace.

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