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Oct 4, 2011 02:12 PM

Cookware for New Induction cooktop

I am in the process of completely remodeling my kitchen. My first migraine is from choosing between either Thermidor or Miele induction, builtin ovens, and dishwashers ... but that is another issue or blog (or if you want to comment here on this I would appreciate any feedback). My experience with all purchases in the last 10 years is that it always boils down to customer service because nothing is ever perfect and sooner or later you will have to call the dreaded customer disservice line.

Regarding cookware, I have read so many reviews of various cookware that my head is spinning. I have it narrowed down to Demeyere Atlantis/Controlinduct, de Buyer, Gastrolux, Swiss Diamond, Le Crueset, Staub, and some form of Mauviel.

I am very impressed with Demeyere Atlantis and Controlinduct and have purchased a few pieces already, but am looking at other products too since I am intrigued with, nowdays, having the option of buying high quality non-stick ware. Demeyerre only makes a fry pan with their "granite" non stick surface. Anyone use the Demeyere Pressure cooker yet?

I've some Copper and stainless Mauviel and copper Ruffino that I have found out I can use with a Emile Henry flame Induction plate accessory (which is pretty cool ... anyone use this combo before?)... of course I love the mauviel and ruffino ware. I keep hearing about Mauviel Inducinox, but can't find it (even used) anywhere and I cannot figure out if the new Mauviel "M" lines in stainless and annodized aluminum replaced Inducinox or not. I also have not found anyone so far who has used either new ''M" series for comments...

I use Mauviel, Le Crueset and Apilco oven ware, but am not sure about using Le Crueset heavy items on a scratchable ceramic cooktop ... anyone have any experience with this?

Has anyone had experience with "de Buyer induction copper"(this is copper cookware with a magnetic inner layer, but does it work well?), or "Gastrolux"(sounds like an antacid, but gets very high marks in Denmark), or "Swiss Diamond Induction" (have never had a problem with anything I purchased produced by the Swiss, but at these prices, I don't want this to be a first time either)?

Any feed back based on your experiences would be very helpful and appreciated ... Thank you in advance for your comments.

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  1. Hi, Nav210west:

    No direct experience with it, but since you omitted it from your possibles list, you might also consider deBuyer's Prima Matera line. It (at least the skillet) has been very scientifically evaluated here by fellow CH'er tanuki soup; I encourage you to find his/her post.


    2 Replies
    1. re: kaleokahu

      I have had almost a year now to experience cookware on my induction cooktop, and have the following conclusions:

      First, I am not sure who started talking about paper and towels under the pans on an induction cooktop, but I do not do that, and have not had any scratching problems.

      Second, The Demeyere cookware is great. It has even won over the most skeptical member of my household.

      Third, my Le Creuset pieces work superbly and I continue to use them daily.

      Fourth, I have recently added a new line-up of cookware to my induction-ready cooking arsenal; namely, Griswold cast iron. I am intrigued with the idea that I am using cast iron cookware that is 120+years old on the latest induction cooktop and it works perfectly. The juxtaposition of old and new is great. Although, the early Griswold (ERIE line of cookware) like I am using is not easy to find in good condition, I encourage all adventurous cooks to acquire some while it is still somewhat available.

      At this point, if I had to rank my favorite cookware to use on induction the order would be as follows:
      First Place = Griswold (particularly the early ERIE line)
      Second Place = Demeyere,
      Third Place = Le Creuset.
      Hope this information helps CH'ers looking for induction cookware.

      1. re: Nav210west

        Nav210west - Thanks for posting your experience. I'm upgrading to induction next year and just wanted to give you props for posting the update. All around the web, so many promise to do so and so few do, it deserves a mention.


    2. You can put a piece of parchment paper / newspaper / towel in between the cookware and the cooktop to avoid scratches. The paper is going to become black and brittle when you fry things, but I haven't seen fire reports yet. I assume you'd get fire if whatever you're cooking inside the pan is severely burnt as well. I always keep a towel under the pot when I'm doing low heat cooking (melting chocolate) or cooking high water content stuff (making chicken stock for hours) and see no damage on the towels. I also bought an oven liner for this purpose, but it has been more annoying than being useful. Somehow the liner keeps "touching" the controls.

      I've always put a Lodge cast iron griddle directly on the cooktop. Knock on wood no scratches yet.

      Tanuki Soup's deBuyer induction copper pan review is this.

      5 Replies
      1. re: cutipie721

        Thank you so much "cutiepie721". I read the entire thread of blogs re Tanuki Soup's fry pan tests and embedded links to reviews of converter plates for induction. As I suspected, but was hoping was not true, the use of a converter plate either does not work or defeats most of the benefits of induction.

        I am fascinated that the deBuyers induction copper ware scored the best ... I only recently discovered this brand by going to a website in the UK. I am thankful to Tanuki Soup for the testing performed. I guess it does not surprise me that the best results so far are from the most expensive induction cookware I've looked at so far; namely, deBuyers. I will want to perform similar tests including Demeyere Atlantis and Controliduct at some point ... unless TS performs them before me.

        I am still interested to hear about any experiences from "chowhound" participants with Swiss Diamond Induction or Gastrolux ware?

        Also interested in anyone's experience with pressure cookers for induction cooktops ... Fagor? Demeyere?

        Again, thank you, "Cutipie721", and I will look at LODGE also since it was not on my previous list.

        1. re: Nav210west

          I use a Fagor pressure cooker on a portable induction unit. I do all skillet and saute pan work on the gas stove, but the induction unit goes into use whenever I need to boil a large quantity of water, use the pressure cooker, or do a long reducing simmer (with a Dutch oven -- either an enameled cast iron one or [a recent purchase, designed for induction], a Tramontina Lyon aluminum-nonstick version).

          I'm happy with the Fagor, but if you're going top of the line, Kuhn-Rikon is the acme of pressure cookers. I didn't realize Demeyere made a pressure cooker; I'd expect it to be as extravagantly priced as all their other pans. I have, use, and enjoy a Demeyere saucier (their "conic sauteuse"), but paid quite a premium for rivetlessness (and induction ability; otherwise I'd have gone with a Master Chef saucier).

          1. re: ellabee

            Thank you for your comments and input, ellabee. I will definitely investigate the options you mentioned and appreciate your taking time to discuss your experiences.
            Bon Appetit!

            1. re: ellabee

              Great suggetions. Once I found out William Sonoma handles Kuhn-Rikon, thats all I need to know. I had never noticed these items before. Now I just have to wait for them to make it to the "Sale" tables in the backs of the WS stores :-) ... Alot of my kitchen items were purchased at WS's phenomenal sales ... sometimes up to 80% off.
              I also found Tramontina cookware at COSTCO, another store I couldn't live without.

          2. re: cutipie721

            Be very careful. I routinely cook with an IR gun for fun.

            Both my inexpensive Supentown and my more expensive commercial induction cookers will easily take a cast iron pan
            or thin carbon pan or reactive stainless alloy pan up to 575 degrees F or more when turning on temp control.Parchment paper is only rated to 400 degrees! The ignition temperature of paper is only 475 degrees or so. I worry about fire conditions and don't use anything under my pans now. I guess you could if the cooker is in a fire safe spot. Like under a commercial hood. Otherwise be careful.

          3. I use AllClad and enamaled cast iron on our DIVA induction. I also frequently use newspaper under when frying to facilitate the clean up..
            I carefully went over the bottom of all cast iron pots with a sharpening stone and 'polished' all the bottoms to remove any sharp projections that could scratch the top.

            1. Hi Nav210west,

              Congratulations on your new kitchen!

              I've tried out a variety of pots and pans on my induction cooktop:

              - bare cast iron (Iwachu, Lodge, Lodge Signature)
              - enameled cast iron (Le Creuset, Mario Batali)
              - carbon steel (a Japanese restaurant supply brand called TKG-PRO)
              - ceramic-coated stainless steel (Silit Silargan)
              - induction-capable aluminum (Swiss Diamond, De Buyer CHOC Induction, Archetun, Fagor, Infinite Circulon -- also expecting a Vollrath 12" square griddle any day now)
              - stainless steel with aluminum disk bottom (Tramontina, Brabantia, Calphalon, various Japanese restaurant supply brands like TGK and EBM)
              - tri-ply stainless steel (Calphalon Contemporary)
              - induction-capable copper (De Buyer Prima Matera)

              I haven't experienced any problems with any of the above pots and pans. As cutipie721 has pointed out, laying a couple of sheets of newspaper on the cooktop and then putting the pot on top of the paper prevents scratching (especially from bare cast iron cookware) and also makes clean-up a snap.

              IME, Le Crueset works really great on induction. I never use my slow cooker anymore.

              The Silit Silargan stuff cooks a lot like LC, and has the advantage of being pretty much indestructible.

              Even though they might not heat so evenly, my go-to pans are still my carbon steel Lyonnaise-style pans and cast iron skillets.

              As for nonstick, I think the Swiss Diamond stuff is very nice, but actually prefer the (less expensive) De Buyer CHOC Induction frying pans. They heat really evenly and have great tubular stainless steel handles (no plastic). The Archetun frying pan is my favorite for omelets because it doesn't have any rivet heads on the inside, but I hesitate to recommend it because it seems almost impossible to find. (PS. Perhaps one reason I'm rather cool on Swiss Diamond is that I think their advertising is quite deceptive -- they scream "NO TEFLON!" but in the fine print they admit they use PTFE, which is simply the chemical name of the material sold under the brand name "Teflon". Feh!)

              I have to confess that I haven't actually used the De Buyer Prima Matera frying pan yet. I guess I'm still saving it for a special occasion or something. It is gorgeous to look at, though. Personally, I find it hard to justify paying the price for the Prima Matera stuff. A 6.5-quart stockpot that costs $700 is a bit over the top IMO.

              I'd be really interested to hear your experience with the Demeyere Atlantis line. It looks absolutely fabulous! Pricey, but not ridiculous. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find a good source here in Japan, or for that matter, a US source that will ship to Japan.

              Hope you find these random comments helpful. Good luck with the remodel!


              18 Replies
              1. re: tanuki soup

                Thank you all for your comments and suggestions ... very helpful, thoughful, and may well end up convincing me to acquire more Demeyere Atlantis.

                At this point, I am wondering if Ihave misunderstood something ... Tanuki Soups entry above indicates that TS has not yet used the deBuyer Pm frypan ... but, didn't the infrared temperature testing and graphs TS did in September include a deBuyer PM frypan? Anyway ... ignoring the exact pan types tested, it was my understanding that the deBuyer pan won the comparison. Based on deBuyer's superior performance, I would like to hypothesize the following:

                First: based on the conductive materials used in the 5 pans tested by TS, the test resuts coincide with the conductive natures of the metals used in each. Since copper was the most conductive metal tested (deBuyer PM pan), it won responsivenes and conductivity ... logically speaking, no surprise there.

                Second: one metal more conductive than copper is silver. The practical reason we don't have sterling cookware is cost ... can you imagine the price if all the copper in deBuyer's PM was relpaced with sterling silver ... anyway, according to my research so far, the only cookware that contains silver is Demeyere Atlantis. Not all Demeyere lines have silver layers in their 7 layer sandwich construction ... only the Atlantis line. So, I am wondering if Demeyere Atlantis would actually test out better than deBuyer's PM line?
                Even though I prefer the aesthetics of deBuyer's PM vs Demeyere, if Demeyere performed better than deBuyer, then, there are two more factors that would solidify Demeyere Atlantis as my new preferred ware; namely,

                First and foremost - COST - IMHO the current cost of deBuyer PM is embarrassing if not downright pretentious

                Second - for 15 years I have worshipped at the "Copperbrill" alter with my Ruffino and Mauviel copperware, and that really grows old fast ...

                Third - Demeyere Atlantis is dishwasher safe and deBuyer is not. ( I have to admit that I rarely use my formal crystal (not diswasher safe) since getting dishwasher safe Riedel Vinum Extreme Crystal.)

                Once my kitchen gets constructed, now projected to complete Dec, 2011, I may get one (lesser)piece of deBuyers if TS hasn't beaten me to the punch :-), and compare to Demeyere before filling out my complement of Induction ware.

                Subal, I noticed you decided on DIVA induction. Although I currently wittled down my choices to Thermador and Miele, I had not previously included DIVA. Just wondering the thought process you went through before deciding on DIVA over all others?

                Thank yous to all who responded and I look forward to any further comments and suggestions you may have.

                Bon Appetit! ... and in Japanese for TS - どうぞめしあがれ (douzo meshiagare)

                1. re: Nav210west

                  I just did some preliminary research on DIVA, and according to, DIVA exited the induction market completely in the US in 2010 (explaining why I did not see that option). According to the article, DIVA used Fagor induction components, and there was a breakdown of that business relationship along with an influx of all the other brands with their own induction units. DIVA decided it did not want to compete with all the big producers. They decided to devote business to the custom market only. btw Since you mentioned DIVA, I recall testing a DIVA induction cooktop in 2005 - wonderful unit, powerful, and obviously the best quality. My guess is that currently Fagor's own products do not use the same level of components that they supplied to DIVA. My current research included Fagor, but the current Thermador and Miele induction cooktops are substantially more powerful.
                  Wondering what your opinion is on the trade off of Thermador vs Miele; my research shows Thermador to be most powerful unit in US with good reliability, while Miele is less powerful with peerless reliability. Since Induction cooktops have no moving parts, how important is reliability rating to decision?
                  Of course I wish we could get Gaggenau's new "Zoneless" induction in the US, but they claim to have no plans to bring it to US ever (per Gaggenau in Germany). The zoneless system allows you to put the pans anywhere on the cooktop and the system automatically locates, sizes, and registers the pan and uses only the amount of hob necessary for that pan - no circles or squares to confine where the pans go. The beauty is that you can use virtually any size pan you have without concern including larger griddles, and you have virtually infinite arrangement possibilities to accommodate the simultaneous usage of multiple pans, all the associated handles, and ergonomics regarding reach and exposure to different heats from different items cooking. If I weren't such a devoted American Libertarian Patriot, I'd be tempted to move to Lausanne just to be able to cook on that in my kitchen :-) Not sure if you've ever had the pleasure of attending the European Kitchen shows, but first they make you so excited, until you find out most of the great new products are not offered here and may never be ... can I say big US govt out-of-control regulation ... but I digress

                  Enjoy your rare and magnificent DIVA ... you lucky person!

                  1. re: Nav210west

                    I want that zoneless cooktop in the worst way. When it comes time for me to get a new stove, I am thinking of buying it overseas and shipping it home. I *think* my homeowners' insurance will permit a non-UL certified appliance if it has an equivalent European rating. Yes, European appliances are drool-worthy. Sigh.

                    1. re: Nav210west

                      Just to throw another wrench into the works, I should mention that Panasonic is now selling "All Metal" induction cooktops in Japan. These will work with standard copper and aluminum cookware without a converter disk.

                      It's pretty new technology, efficiency isn't as high as for magnetic pots and pans, and apparently there is some strange "levitation effect" with aluminum pans, but it would be pretty tempting if you have (or want to get) a lot of copper cookware.

                      I've checked the price recently, and you can get one of these new cooktops (in Japan) for about the price of 3 Prima Matera 6.5-quart stockpots!!!

                      PS. If they ever come out with an All Metal zoneless cooktop, I'll be first in line to get one!

                      1. re: tanuki soup

                        Hi, Tanuki: "...efficiency isn't as high as for magnetic pots and pans..."

                        Has anyone quantified this? Does Panasonic publish any figures? I've always wondered about the tradeoff(s) involved-- For example, is Eh+Ip (efficient induction hob under inefficient magnetic pan) more or less efficient as a whole than Ic+Ep ("inefficient" hob under highly conductive pan)? The "All Metal" hobs, it seems to me, pose a variant of this question. But I still would like to see an energy efficiency comparison of CI on induction vs. copper on electric coil. I continue to believe such a whole-view comparison would show a smaller (or no) net advantage for induction.

                        You have my permission (LOL) to buy one of these All Metal tops and subject it to your thorough scientific tests.


                    2. re: Nav210west

                      Hi, nav210west: "anyway, according to my research so far, the only cookware that contains silver is Demeyere Atlantis."

                      Well there are copper lines that are silver lined, e.g., Mazzetti. I have closely examined cutaways from the Atlantis line, and considering the 2mm copper layer and the thick inner and outer SS cladding, there is no room for much in the way of a silver layer. My sense is that any silver that's in there is part of a bonding layer, pretty much like all the even-numbered layers in 5, 7, and up layer multiclad.

                      But sure, let's see how Atlantis does against Prima Matera.


                      1. re: kaleokahu

                        Thanks for the information. I agree that given the Demeyere pricing, there just can't be much silver in there, but I am not sure how much silver it would take to make a significant difference in performance ... supposedly the bottom coating on deBuyers is a very thin powder coat of ferrous metal ...I will look into Mazzetti and see if they make anything for induction.
                        Celebrating the joys of cooking, Brooks Murray
                        Eet je Smakelijk! (Dutch for Bon Apetit)

                        1. re: Nav210west

                          Hi, Nav210west:

                          You can spare yourself the trouble Cesare and Isolda Mazzetti make only traditional copperware. Their finest can be ordered with a silver lining (which they job out eleswhere in Montepulciano). But their website is fun to check out anyway.


                          1. re: kaleokahu

                            What wonderful cookware and fantastic prices also... even after converting back to dollars from euros! I will definitely keep them in mind for additional oven ware and accessories and utensils. Thank you for the lead ...
                            I wish I could also have a gas stove in my kitchen, but my new property that I am remodeling before moving in is all electric (as is the entire neighborhood) and conversion is extremely expensive due to beachfront restrictions and the local politicians and bureaucrats making variances virtually impossible to get ... and I can only imagine what that would do to my already-astronomical insurance rates.
                            I wonder what they'd charge to powdercoat their wares' bottoms with ferrous metals? I bet it would still be less than deBuyer Prima Matera .... :-) I am surprised that I never heard of them before, especially since 20+ years ago I assited the head chef on a part time basis at the "4R" rated restaurant Allemansgeest in Leiden/Voorschoten, in the Netherlands .... still in operation, btw, and worth a visit if you visit Holland ... a gourmet gem off the tourist routes that is kept a relative locals secret ... including the Dutch Royal Family.

                            1. re: Nav210west

                              Hi, Nav210west:

                              Well, consider it an excuse to visit Tuscany and Montepulciano. Cesare's workshop is just around the corner from the storefront, and you can watch the wares being made.

                              If I am ever again in Leiden, I will try Allemansgeest.


                              1. re: kaleokahu

                                I was wondering what kind of a "get-away" I would need after this renovation project ... I believe you just anwered my question, thank you.

                                1. re: Nav210west

                                  Right now is a great time of the year to be in Tuscany. The weather is turning, the grape harvests are mostly in, but it is still pleasantly warm during the day. And most of the tourists are gone. If you're looking for a unique place to stay outside of a city, Google "Borgo di Vagli"

                      2. re: Nav210west

                        Nav210west wrote:

                        "At this point, I am wondering if Ihave misunderstood something ... Tanuki Soups entry above indicates that TS has not yet used the deBuyer Pm frypan ... but, didn't the infrared temperature testing and graphs TS did in September include a deBuyer PM frypan?"

                        A quick note to clarify, I did run the temperature tests on the De Buyer PM frying pan (three times, actually), but I haven't "used" it yet in the sense that I haven't actually used it to cook food.

                        1. re: tanuki soup

                          Thanks for the clarification, TS ... for a moment I thought the stress of my renovation project was starting to affect my cognitive abilites :-). I will look into the new panasonic cooktop.
                          Speaking of cooktop surprises ... my General Contractor just pulled an original 1958 GE "Eye-High" (or so it is labeled) coil cooktop from under mountains of old attic insulation. My kitchen contractor saw my smile, rolled his eyes, and asked where I want it installed... I just wish it had been a vintage Thermador stainless cooktop that I could have installed close to the new Thermador induction cooktop ... what a kick that would be! Talk about running cooking speed and performance tests ...copper on coil versus new wares on induction .. my cooking hobbyist heart pounds!

                          1. re: tanuki soup

                            What a kick ! ... if induction now comes with levitation abilities, now we can all be chefs with a "David COPPERfield" twist !

                          2. re: Nav210west

                            WE had a GE induction, with Toshiba internals. one of the power units failed 6 times Fortunately we had GE insurance. After the 6th time GE was out of the market and gave us a new electric coil unit. I sold it and bought a DIVA. I went with it from a cost stand point as it was ~$3,000 and one of the lowest cost units available at that time - about 5 years ago.
                            Today, there are many others on the market at competative prices. I have not had any problems with it. I don't remember the power rating, but at the time I got it, it pulled at almost the max apms on our circuit. It is very powerful, especially when the pot is closley matched to the ring size.
                            As noted in an earlier post, I use news paper when frying and clean the top with "Scrubby Bubbles" bath room cleaner followed by Windex.. Very rarley, do I need the real ceramic stove top cleaner. Also the Bubbles is tops for cleaning our stainless stel sink. Wash, rinse with the sink hose and air dry. No stains or streaking!

                          3. re: tanuki soup


                            Between Archetun Induction and De Buyer Choc Induction, which one you like better? I will be in France in January and sells both. For a 28 cm pan, Archetun is 75 Eur, DE Buyer 63 EUR, so a bit cheaper but not a whole lot. I didn't see any source for either in US.

                            BTW: Buying from is very convenient -- order a few days in advance and they deliver at the hotel, OTOH buying from a store it might be possible to get a VAT refund.

                            Thanks, -- CF

                            1. re: careme_fan

                              The nice thing about the Archetun is that there are no rivets to hold the handle on, so the inner cooking surface is totally smooth. Perfect for making omelets. It also looks really cool, like a cast iron skillet if you squint a bit. The black plastic handle is cleverly shaped so that the pan seems to be all one piece. On the downside, I don't think it can go in the oven (well, unless you unscrewed the handle).

                              The De Buyer has two rivets for the handle. OTOH, I really like the handle. It's tubular stainless steel, gently curved and with smooth indentations for your fingers. Nice and long, open at the end, and with a drainage hole underneath where it meets the pan. It should be no problem to put in in the oven. Another advantage of the DB is that it comes in a wider range of sizes than the Archetun, if you are considering getting a matched set.

                              Hope this brief description helps. Have a great time in France!

                          4. Check out Chantal cookware. It has a copper and carbon steel core and is enameled inside and out. It is amazing how fast it is on an induction cooktop. Not all Swiss Diamond is made for induction but they are introducing more pieces. The Chantal is also oven and dishwasher safe.

                            12 Replies
                            1. re: Candy

                              Thanks, Candy, I have seen Chantal, and it is attractive cookware ... I wonder if Tanuki Soup has run any of his/her thermal tests using Chantal? I have notice that Swiss Diamond is specifically labeled "Induction" if it is compatible, and thanks for the heads up that they are coming out with more pieces.
                              So far, my research is pulling me back to an initial combination of Demeyere, Kuhn-Rikon, and Staub/Lodge/LeCreuset. Thanks to this blog site, I found out that Kuhn-Rikon pressure cookware is far superior to all others including Demeyere. and that I should stick with Lodge/Staub/LeCreuset for grills and griddles. I am not sure about the Lecreuset Grilling pans, though, as I had one, and found it very difficult to use ... my experience is that meats stick to the raised grill grid, and it is extremely difficult to clean. If anyone has had success with the enameled cast iron grills, I would appreciate your secrets of successful use. I have tried using no oils, peanut oil, pam, coconut oil, butter, and olive oil, and meats stick and get torn to shreds everytime I lift them up from the grilling grid ... and i won't even go into the two day cleaning and soaking process that always follows... What am I doing wrong?

                              1. re: Nav210west

                                Hi, Nav210west:

                                Caveat emptor with regard to Chantal Copper Fusion. They won't disclose the thicknesses of any of the layers in the sandwich. Nor do they make cutaways available. Awhile back, I made a concerted effort to find out the thicknesses. No one who knows is talking, which I consider a bad sign.

                                All but two of the retail CCF sellers in my state (WA) had stopped selling it, largely because buyers were very unhappy about the stickiness of the enamel linings--it seems to go sticky after a few months' use. I think only *one* WA retailer actually stocks any anymore.

                                However, CCF has its adherents and zealous advocates here (the credible Candy and Politeness among them), so I too would like to see a shootout with CCF against a line like Demeyer Atlantis or straight-gauge copper.

                                Tanuki? Maybe Candy will FedEx you a skillet. T, you should not, *not*, NOT saw one in two so we can see under the hood.


                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                  Thank you Kaleokahu,
                                  I had not heard these things before, and they definitely will enter into my thoughts when selecting cookware to buy. How funny that you mentioned to not saw a Chantal pot in two. Tanuki Soup seems to be very thorough in examination of cookware, and I appreciate his/her energy and experiments. I particularly appreciate the September discussion regarding the details of infrared temp measurement and different metals, since the Thermador induction cooktop temperature monitor "periscopes" employ infrared. After closer more detailed reading, the Thermador feature only works with their specific cookware unless you put a sticker they supply on the sides of all your pots ... which now puts a point in Miele's court and tips my decision now in favor of Miele over Thermador. I am gaining alot of knowledge from the discussion of cooks' experiences with induction cookware and induction cooktops on this site. This knowledge is showing me that I ought to determine, first the best cookware for my needs, and second a cooktop ... previously, I thought I would first choose the induction cooktop and then the cookware.
                                  My next big hurdle is determining what water-bath and pressure cooking/canning cookware can be used on which cooktop since I am an avid canner and marmelade maker. Sadly, Induction cooktops are incompatible with my All American pressure cooker. I like the Kuhn-Rikon pressure cookers, but Kuhn-Rikon indicate the cooktop makers have to specify their cooktops can be used for canning. So far, only Thermador mentions pressure cooking in their manuals . ..Does anyone have any experience with Canning/Pressure cooking on a Miele induction cooktop? Other canning specialty websites I've visited are inconclusive regarding this matter ... I also have an email into MieleUSA, but they have not responded yet.

                                  1. re: Nav210west

                                    Hi, again, Nav210West:

                                    You're welcome.

                                    I was just trying to save Candy's pot! But it's going to *take* someone sawing a CCF in two to find out what's inside.

                                    Sorry, I can't help you out on the induction front. I'm going in the opposite direction, towards a wood/coal cookstove. Had a modern AGA/Rayburn in negotiations, but it was 3,000 miles away. I'll get there, though. I have 5 cords of hardwood and a ton of cooking coal all ready. Not sure if any of my options have thermal periscopes.


                                  2. re: kaleokahu

                                    The stickiness washes off beautifully with some Bar keeper's Friend. Also, Easy Off has brought out a liquid scrub for glass and enameled surfaces. I have never had the problem, occasionally I'll get a little residue but with either of those products they are beautifully clean and shiny.

                                    Sorry we use UPS/

                                    1. re: Candy

                                      Hi, Candy:

                                      What I was told by more than one dealer is that CCF starts sticking at about the 6 month mark. Obviously, if BKF solves that problem, that's wonderful, but wouldn't you have thought the dealers would have kept their sales by suggesting that?

                                      You can UPS to me, and I'll FedEx to Tanukisoup. ;)


                                      1. re: kaleokahu

                                        Hi Kaleo, I was talking to my rep a few weeks ago. We had had a couple of pieces come back. On one of them the enamel on the OUTSIDE of the pan had dulled. The other pan someone had burned up (no that is not covered in a warranty). I looked at one of my pans (I have the red) and saw that had happened to mine too. The inside on both pans were fine. Mine are at least 3 Y.O. She was bewildered as to what could cause that to happen. A co-worker with the platinum colored pans has had no issues with dulling. Next time she comes i am going to bring in one of the pans with the dulled glaze. Those 2 pans are the only pans I have had returned in 4 years. Our sales are fine with Chantal. No drop at all. That and Swiss Diamond are my 2 best sellers and SD I've more problems with. They are very good about living up to their warranties.

                                        1. re: Candy

                                          Hi, Candy:

                                          That's good to hear. If what the dealers told me is true, I think Chantal must have backed off somewhat in its marketing claims that the enamel is non-stick. I'm thinking part of the problem must have been creating an expectation that it *is* nonstick, i.e., like PTFE.

                                          I can't get my brain around a glossy enamel interior staying glossy for any length of time, anyway. Not that gloss equates with non-stick especially. One would also expect the abrasive DW detergents would take their toll along with metal utensils. Maybe I'm jaded, but unless you care for CCF the way you do for high-maintenance cookware, I think dulling is inevitable.

                                          Now, if you can obtain a cutaway... They're jut cutting off their nose to spite their face treating this as "proprietary". On the other hand, if they keep on with this, *I'll* buy one at T.J. Maxx and saw it myself.


                                          1. re: kaleokahu

                                            I'd be interested in the findings from sawing a Chantal pan in half.
                                            Still no word from Miele USA regarding compatibility with canning/pressure cooking ...

                                            1. re: kaleokahu

                                              :: I can't get my brain around a glossy enamel interior staying glossy for any length of time, anyway. ::

                                              Good enamel stays glossy a long time if washed by hand. A Descoware casserole I've been cooking with regularly for almost 40 years is still smooth and glossy inside and out. I guess some people consider anything that doesn't go in the dishwasher "high maintenance", but to me the term implies more than that.

                                              I got a Chantal CCF Dutch oven with an eye to comparing it with another 40-year-old enameled cast iron version for long simmers on the induction unit. Then I bought a pot that I'm pretty sure will beat both of those for the purpose, a Tramontina Lyon Dutch oven; it's 8mm aluminum (forged, not cast, so much more responsive) lined with hardened nonstick. Normally, I avoid nonstick, but this is such an efficient pot and will be doing the high-scorch-risk items like apple butter.

                                              Because the lid of the Chantal fits one of the skillets here perfectly, I'm strongly tempted to ship the body of the pot to whichever chowhound is most eager to cut it open and share the findings with us. But I can't bear the thought of destroying a perfectly good and good-looking pot, even if it was a sale price acquisition.

                                              1. re: ellabee

                                                Hi, ellabee:

                                                Ooh, ooh! [hand waving in air]. Let me, please! I'll even make cutouts for those interested.

                                                Think of it as donating a cadaver to medical science.


                                                PS The Tramontina sounds great, sorta like old Guardian stuff, except coated.

                                                1. re: kaleokahu

                                                  :: Tramontina sounds great, sorta like old Guardian stuff, except coated. ::

                                                  Exactly. This past summer I was thinking about how useful a size and shape the Copco Dutch oven was, and what a great pan it would be if it were heavy straight-gauge aluminum. My imaginary version was coated with enamel. Then a few months later I saw that Tramontina had made real my idea, only with a nonstick surface.

                                                  My resistance to non-stick was overcome partly by the appeal of the garnet color [it comes also in black, so that the inside matches the outside, and a blue that doesn't speak to me at all].

                                                  I wish they'd make a version of their Lyon rondeau with a stainless interior... Or that someone [are you listening, Regal Corp.?] would come out with an 11" sautoir or sauteuse/rondeau in 6mm aluminum lined with stainless.

                                                  Thx for email; will see if I can bring myself to donate the cadaver...