Pollster: Your favorite kitchen knife

[Chemicalkinetics]

Time for another fun poll

Which kitchen knife do you use the most and find it invaluable.

a) German Chef's knife
b) French Chef's knife
c) Gyuto (Japanese style Chef's knife)
d) Santoku
e) Nakiri
f) Sujihikis
g) Chinese Chef's knife (aka Chinese cleaver)
h) Utility knife
i) Bread knife
j) Paring knife
k) None of the above

Thank for your participation :)

[plogiudice]

D Santoku. Everything depends on the steel and sharpening.

[duckfat_33]

C - gyuto

Toyed with santoku for awhile, but have found their relatively blunter tip makes them less versatile in the kitchen, and really more a specialist vegetable knife.

Interested there is so much support for Chinese cleavers. How do you manage without a point?

[RealMenJulienne]

Cleaver user here. If I need to use a knife point for something, I just dig out the paring knife. The shorter blade enables better control for point work anyway.

[Chemicalkinetics]

This maybe the final update. Thanks for your participation. You have made it all very fun. Despite this is not an official poll, it does bring out some interesting information.
Again, please let me know if I accidentally assigned you to the wrong choice. The raw data are here:

a German Chef's knife DPGood debbypo steve h. bwinter714 DoobieWah taos
b French Chef's knife Keli2006 tim irvine bexxpeter Josh
c Gyuto Dave5440 skaboy twyst petek cowboyardee strangemd Eiron scubadoo97 smkit Delucacheesemonger
d Santoku bocho cosmogrrl TeRReT Monica jhamiltonwa Mangobob
e Nakiri bocho skyline Quine buttertart
f Sujihikis bocho redbeanbun
g Chinese Chef's knife mateo Chemicalkinetics RealMenJulienne Westy rosetown inaplasticcup
h Utility knife ellabee SanityRemoved
i Bread knife
j Paring knife
k None

37 total votes

The charts are here:

[inaplasticcup]

So, Ck. What are your psycho/sociological conclusions about your fellow blade wielding CH vis a vis this data?

[Chemicalkinetics]

My personal conclusion is among CHOWHOUNDER who are interested in kitchen knives:
a) The gyuto knife outranks German or French Chef's knife, but not if German and French are combined together.
b) Quite a bit of people love their santoku, Chinese clever, and nakiri
c) Hybrid knives like santoku and gyuto are popular.

That said, these are not psycho/social conclusions. To do that kind of survey, I will need to link the knife preference to say the social difference of the responders. For example, I would have to ask them about their (1) knife preference and then (2) their social status like their eduction levels and annual income. Then, I can say people who prefer gyuto has a higher average income than people who prefer nakiri.... something like that.

[Josh]

I'd add another criterion, which is "coolness".

What I mean by that is when I meet young people buying knives, a lot of times they are particularly impressed by Shuns, especially the Ken Onion models, or the newer ones that have the kind of hand-hammered look to them. On some level, I can't help but suspect some of their desire for these blades is owing to their cool factor (which is undeniable).

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I'd add another criterion, which is "coolness". "

While that may be a factor, this is not something I can get out from this particular poll and inaplasticcup asked me what I got out from this set of data. That will be difficult to add to a poll anyway because most people will not honestly respond and said "I bought knife only because it is cool".

I also have strong suspect that there is a gender difference between the preference santoku vs Chef's knife and there are other data suggest that, just not this particular set of data.

[steve h.]

two modest follow-up questions:

• how do you wash your knives?

• how do you sharpen your knives?

[Chemicalkinetics]

Are these questions for me? I wash with water and I sharpen my knives on stones.

I have a feeling that you mean these are the next natural question for future polls? If so, why don't you post one? Steve, you know I will participate in your poll :)

[steve h.]

You're the doctor.
Polls can be interesting, follow-ups can be very interesting especially when they're about knives. So, follow up!
I enjoy your posts.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I made a sharpening method poll before. Here:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/799150#6774726

http://www.chow.com/photos/662961

Of course, there is no correlation between this poll and that poll. In other words, I cannot conclude people with a gyuto more likely to sharpening their knives on a stone. That would have been cool, but I didn't do it.

[steve h.]

The difference between first response (Your favorite kitchen knife) and a follow-up like I mentioned can add a measure of dimension.

just a thought...

[Chemicalkinetics]

I think it is a great idea, but I worry it will be difficult to execute now. It would have been smarter had I thought of this earlier and post a two-parts question. Now, I don't think it will be easy to get these people back to answer another poll.

In short, I don't disagree with that it will add a great dimension. I just think it will be difficult to execute.

:)

[steve h.]

Give it a shot. You know, "Favorite Kitchen Knife Part Two" or something. Heck, this is a public food forum, it's not like it's a scientific study.
Go for it, have some fun. Failure, in this case, is an option to be embraced.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I am thinking of another one right now, not about knife though. :P More about nonstick cookware.

[steve h.]

That's a seriously good topic, so many levels of ambiguity.
Best of luck.

--steve

[buttertart]

I bet it'll get ugly a la the NAF bust-em-up fisticuffs and tears festivals. That's a weighted topic (non-stick).

[Chemicalkinetics]

Nah, overall most people have been very polite and only discuss their own opinions without confronting others. Want to vote in that poll? I am waiting. :)

[steve h.]

off topic.
I replaced my German steak knives (stamped) with forged German steel (12 cm classic Wusthoff).
I hated those stamped guys. Haven't looked back.

[Josh]

B or D, depending on what I'm doing.

Santoku is more my everyday utility knife in the kitchen, and is the one I use most regularly on a day-to-day basis. When I am cooking for larger numbers of people and have a lot of prep work to get through, I'll go for my French knife.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Ok, if I toss your two knives in the ocean who will you rescue first?

http://my.englishclub.com/profiles/bl...

[Josh]

The chef's knife. It was more expensive. :-)

[bexpeter]

b) 10" Chef's knife.

[taos]

A

[SanityRemoved]

H. 6" Sabatier **** Elephant Carbon Steel
Around 40 years old and still a lot of fun.

[Mangobob]

"D," Shun 7" granton santoku

[steve h.]

Nice poll, ck.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Another update, not the finally report yet.

*Again, if I made a mistake of assigning your preference to the wrong knife, please let me know*

Thanks for your participation.

Here are the results

[Chemicalkinetics]

Wow, I just realize that I forgot to release the raw data. Please let me know if I incorrectly assign your preference:

a German Chef's knife DPGood debbypo steve h. bwinter714 DoobieWah
b French Chef's knife Keli2006 tim irvine
c Gyuto Dave skaboy twyst petek cowboyardee strangemd Eiron scubadoo97 smkit Delucacheesemonger
d Santoku bocho cosmogrrl TeRReT Monica jhamiltonwa
e Nakiri bocho skyline Quine buttertart rosetown
f Sujihikis bocho redbeanbun
g Chinese Chef's knife mateo Chemicalkinetics RealMenJulienne Westy
h Utility knife ellabee
i Bread knife
j Paring knife
k None

[jhamiltonwa]

d) Santoku, a Kanetsune and a cheapo Kiwi (at $4.95 it has to be the best value for money cookware product).

[DoobieWah]

A. 8" Chefs

[Chemicalkinetics]

Would it be presumptuous to put you down for "German Chef's" consider that you have a Wusthof Chef's knife as you icon/avatar?

[DoobieWah]

Busted!

[Monica]

My brother in law who is a chef bought one of these recently...the 9.4 inch one.

http://korin.com/Indented-Blade-Gyuto...

[Chemicalkinetics]

Nice knife, but what knife do you like?

[Monica]

I have a Wusthof santoku which I like but then I have not use any other brand so I wouldn't know.

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) Thanks. I am going to include your preference then: Santoku
I can also include your brother-in-law preference. I understand that he bought a new gyuto from korin, but do you know if gyuto is his preference knife or it is a knife he bought? I mean the last knife I bought is a Santoku, but I won't call it as my most favorest style of knife. Thanks.

[Monica]

He said he saw his ex boss using this particular knife he bought and loved how it handled, etc....so he decided to purchase this himself. He also likes the fact that the knife has double indentations which he believes is better when slicing vege like tomatoes...and potatoes.
I don't think he is big on santoku..but maybe that's a chef thing? Something I should ask him next time....

[bwinter714]

I really like my Hybrid (Shun classic), I generally rock my knife when dicing, slicing etc. While the shape of the German-style blades is my preference, I really like the back-weightedness (is that a word? haha) of a Japanese-style knife. I feel like I have more control, and I can finesse the blade a little better than a heavy-handed bruiser like a wustoff chefs knife.

So I guess in not so many words, I would have to go with C, unless you add a "L", Hybrid Japanese-German Chefs knife.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Yike,

Now, I am really starting to confuse myself as well. Would a Shun Classic Chef's knife be classified as a German Chef's knife which I originally intended to use. But now that you mentioned it, it is a hybrid knife. For the sake of simplicity, I think I am going to make it as (c) still. Otherwise, there are tons of revisions needed to be made.

[bwinter714]

Yeah, the blade shape says "Germany", while the VG-10 Steel and 17degree edge says "Japan", so who knows lol, I just know I like it! So "C" it is.

[mateo21]

I think this is really about shape, right? In essence a Shun Chef's knife is about 95% German in inspiration -- big belly, small flat spot, edge curves to meet the spine (as opposed to the spine meeting the edge in a santoku, or a relative even meeting with a gyuto).

[Westy]

G. Dexter Chinese cleaver
B. Dexter 9" (the white handled one). Absolutely noting fancy. On the other hand...fantastic edge and nice balance.

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) Which one you like slightly better? The Chinese cleaver or the 9" Chef's knife?

[Westy]

Chinese chef's for anything but meat.

I like having a little extra heft, and the ability to "scoop" carrots/celery/mushrooms, etc is a neat little bonus.
If I were to get another knife, I think thee are some French knives made with pre-WW1 blanks. Thiers-Issard? I saw them in a magazine (Art of Eating) a while back. If not that, I like this: http://www.kellamknives.com/index.php...

[mateo21]

I'm curious why you don't like your cleaver for meat? Or just specific types of meats (e.g. the ones you typically eat :P)?

[Westy]

It does a fine job of chopping, and that nice heavy side can crush garlic clives, and I certainly like how the tip can split open celery stalks....but more often than not, when I am cutting up meat, I like my blades to slie and slide through meat. I bet a more expoerienced cook can make the cleaver do whatever they want (I saw a few cooks in Taipei with some astonishing skills). It just comes down to a different tool for a different job.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I saw a ew cooks in Taipei with some astonishing skills"

What is a ew cook?

[Westy]

"few"

[tanuki soup]

Jumping in a little late, but definitely "d)", my beloved Glestain santoku.

[smkit]

C.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Originally, I wanted to conduct a poll for the most used and most loved knife shape, but soon I found out the most used knife is not always the most loved knife.

*** So, let’s focus on “Most Favorite Kitchen Knife Style” for simplicity. Please feel free to change your answer. ***

Here is a quick update results and please let me know if I made a mistake or if you want to change your answer. In addition, if your favorite knife style is not mentioned, please let me know. For example, some people may love the yanagiba and usuabe profile, but they are not listed. Please let me know. Thanks.

German Chfe's knife DPGood Delucacheesemonger debbypo steve h.
French Chef's knife Keli2006 tim irvine
Gyuto Dave skaboy twyst petek cowboyardee strangemd Eiron scubadoo97
Santoku bocho cosmogrrl TeRReT
Nakiri bocho skyline Quine buttertart rosetown
Sujihikis bocho redbeanbun
Chinese Chef's knife mateo Chemicalkinetics RealMenJulienne
Utility knife ellabee
Bread knife
Paring knife
None

I have included the updated data and categorized the results into three different graphs

[TeRReT]

Wow, with more people using naikiri and gyuto then my santoku, maybe those should be my next purchase instead of deba

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) This poll is not representative. I have little doubt that a full scale poll on the entire American population will have German Chef's and French Che's knives way up, and will have santoku significantly above nakiri and gyuto. I don't think most people even heard of a nakiri and gyuto to be honest.

[TeRReT]

thats probably true, but if i can convince my girlfriend the gyuto is popular and necessary then maybe she'll also buy me the 7000mcd and if i have 2 of 3 mcd knives i might as well get the utility knife too :P One can dream anyways!

[Chemicalkinetics]

"but if i can convince my girlfriend the gyuto is popular and necessary then maybe she'll also buy me ..."

A girlfriend who will buy you a knife is a real keeper :)

Last time I talked about knives, my date left me :P

[TeRReT]

she's bought me 1.5 knives, and she's japanese which really helps when trying to buy japanese knives in japan, she's definitely a keeper, but in 3 days we'll be apart for 3 months, not fun

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) 1.5 knives huh? I can imagine the 0.5 in different ways.

"but in 3 days we'll be apart for 3 months, not fun"

Well, then you need to read up Japanese (Eastern Asian) culture more. In long duration parting, it is customary to buy each others gift so that they will remember the other person when viewing the items.

Tell her that you will always think of her when you look at the 7000 mcd utility knife -- if only she will buy it for you.

:P

[TeRReT]

I'll try that! and she paid for half the knife I bought in Japan, hence the 0.5

[Delucacheesemonger]

OTOH, l have bought every woman seriously involved with an antique laguiole. Most carried them. But you are correct, they collectively never bought me one.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"l have bought every woman seriously involved with an antique laguiole. Most carried them. But you are correct, they collectively never bought me one."

If I understand correctly, this means you want them to remember you by buying knives for them, but they didn't care for you to remember them (thus the lack of replica return of love).

[Delucacheesemonger]

Thus why single now, l guess.

[buttertart]

You must not have made them give you a penny for them, you have to pay for a knife or it cuts the relationship between you (or so said my mom).

[Chemicalkinetics]

He he he. That is true. I almost forgot that part. Delucacheesemonger, did you attach a coin to the gift knives?

[Delucacheesemonger]

Damn, that might be the reason. Knew had to put money in a new house or new car, not with a knife. Perhaps l will now send each of them a euro and see what happens. And you CK, are you laughing at my deplorable singleness ?

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Perhaps l will now send each of them a euro and see what happens."

A euro, huh? Well, there is a chance that it will not worth a lot in the future.

"And you CK, are you laughing at my deplorable singleness ?"

:) Definitely not laughing since I am single as well. In fact, here is a real story from a previous date when knife sharpening got in the conversation. There was some typos like typing hobbit instead of hobby, but I am sure you can figure it all out:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6735...

[buttertart]

Obviously you need to find a nice knife-minded girl, chemkin.

[steve h.]

Hey bt,
The noren decisions will be made by the end of October.
Thanks for the tip.

--steve

[rosetown]

*** So, let’s focus on “Most Favorite Kitchen Knife Style” for simplicity. Please feel free to change your answer. ***

If it's the most loved knife as opposed to the most used that you want, you need to change my choice from nakiri to CCK 1301. It brings me no end of pleasure when I use it.

BTW and off topic: I gave my CCK 1501 to the son of a life long friend who had summer jobs working in a commercial kitchen. I'm 5'10" and he's 6'2" and he can better handle that knife than me. I didn't need it. He was delighted.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Will do for the next update. Thanks, rosetown.
P.S.: the CCK 1501 is a Chinese BBQ chopper. Is he into Chinese BBQ business?

http://www.chanchikee.com/BBQ1.jpg

[rosetown]

Man my memory is fading - it was a KF1102

[rosetown]

for small slicing jobs - cooking for one - whatever is handy
c) gyuto
d) santoku
e) nakiri (favoured but not always handy - go figure)

for large slicing jobs - cooking for a mob
g) CCK 1301 chinese cleaver

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) If I force you to pick one for this poll, you will pick what?

[rosetown]

Well force me then :) - the nakiri is favoured and should be handy - too big for my knife block - have to carve the block to allow room - I've done that for other knives.

[steve h.]

a.

[scubadoo97]

C.

[ellabee]

A - Henckels 8", for last 30 years
H - Wusthof tomato/deli/utility

[Chemicalkinetics]

I take "A" then. :) Correct me if I am wrong.

[ellabee]

Yes, I use A most often, but find H invaluable, and it's the knife of which I'm fondest. I use it as a bread knife for all but the biggest loaves.

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) Then, I will switch you from (A) to (H) then.

[redbeanbun]

my favorite is f) but the one i use most often is d)

[Chemicalkinetics]

In that case, I will put you down for (f)

[tim irvine]

Thanks, Chem. This is cool. It would be interesting to see if people's knife preferences line up with their cutting styles (slicers versus rockers). It is silly how many people have the wrong sort of tool for their particular style just because someone else (or an ad or a store staff person) said that was the one to get, usually based on "How much do you think you'd spend?"

[Chemicalkinetics]

Wow, that is a good observation. Hmm, I wonder that.

"It is silly how many people have the wrong sort of tool for their particular style just because someone else"

For some reason, Rachel Ray's face come up for a second.... Hmm, I need to take a shot of my Johnny Walker Black. Need to shake that image off. :)

[Quine]

People seem to buy brands, and associate the cost of an item as a quality predictor as well as a status symbol. So many times you see folks ask "should I buy a Shun or a Global (or fill in your variations)" and just don't hear it when people reply back, depends how it feels to you when you hold it.
Personally, I am a slicer. I am a woman and short. Means my hands are smaller, my dominant hand's wrist is just barely 6 in in dia. Also means that standard counter top heights are just a bit too high for me as well. I also grew up in the food industry and have cooked professionally. I think there is no hell like using the wrong knife in the wrong way for 8 hours or more. Slicing is just easier for me. To me, if a knife costs $1 or if it costs $500, as long as it works well for me, I am sold.
Then you get folks who ask after they buy a hugely expensive knife, so "how do I use it?" I kinda like those folks. I have found some great deals at thrift stores of these "bad" knives.

[Chemicalkinetics]

A quick preliminary result. Please correct me if I assigned you into the wrong category.

a German - DPGood Delucacheesemonger debbypo
b French - Keli2006 tim irvine
c Gyuto - Dave skaboy twyst petek cowboyardee strangemd Eiron
d Santoku - cosmogrrl TeRReT
e Nakiri - skyline Quine
f Sujihikis
g Chinese - mateo Chemicalkinetics
h Utility
i Bread
j Paring
k None- buttertart

[cowboyardee]

Cool visual representation. Thanks Chem.

In your second graph, here's a little tripping point - in terms of curved edges vs straight edges: Petek's Moritaka gyuto (classified as 'curved') is much straighter than Cosmogrrl's Shun santoku (classified as 'straight'). Just an example.

Course, there are a lot of ways you could break this down: Western (style) vs Eastern (style); Western (maker) vs Eastern (maker); long vs short; cleaver pattern vs chef pattern; buttertart vs everyone else ;p

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Petek's Moritaka gyuto (classified as 'curved') is much straighter than Cosmogrrl's Shun santoku (classified as 'straight')."

I know. To be honest, originally, I wanted to classified all French's Chef's, German Chef's and gyuto together because they are similar and have similar root. However, had I done that, then it won't be much of a competition. 80%+ would have gone under this classification. So I decided to break these three knives apart.

Obviously, the Nakiri and Chinese cleavers are similar in their straight edge. Santoku is speculated to be a hybrid between the Nakiri and the European Chef's knife, so I decide to classify it under Nakiri.

I guess long vs short would have been better, maybe? Or I am think about Western vs Eastern vs Hybrid (Gyuto and Santoku would be Hybrid).

Buttertart vs others would be pretty awesome too. :D

[petek]

"Petek's Moritaka gyuto (classified as 'curved') is much straighter than Cosmogrrl's Shun santoku (classified as 'straight')."

It's true,my Moritaka gyutos profile is more "suji" like than a typical western style chefs knife,but it's still classified as curved..

[inaplasticcup]

LOL. If buttertart vs. The World has do to with her loving her cheap Kiwi, count me in her army, please. :)

[buttertart]

Chemkin switched me to a nakiri since that's the Kiwi cleaver shape. But if it were me against the world, I'd want my Kiwi with me.

[tim irvine]

French chef for me. My ancient carbon 10" is so nimble I use it to core tomatoes and so sharp I use it to slice them, as thin as I like.

[debbypo]

A, D, H

[Chemicalkinetics]

I take A (German Chef's knife) as the most important to you. Thanks.

[Quine]

Figured some photo would work better, my current faves.

The lone knife is a Navaja a traditional Spanish fighting knife.

[Chemicalkinetics]

So, your favor kitchen knife is fighting knife?

That bottom knife looks like a Dexter-Russell narrow blade Chinese cleaver (so narrow that it can be classified as a Nakiri)

[Quine]

No, ooops, should have said that. It's actually the knife in my purse. The set of 4 are my current kitchen ones. Just that navaja is so beautiful I thought folks here could appreciate it. But yes, it has been used to cut a steak or two. Folded it is 6 inches.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Just that navaja is so beautiful I thought folks here could appreciate it"

Sounds more like you are trying to scare us -- trying to be the alpha male.

So which of the 4 kitchen knives would you say you use/like the most? If you have to pick one.

[Quine]

Really? Gee, Alpha, Male, nope not either.

As for the others, sorta like picking a favorite child or food, it changes. I love the Sabatier but clearly that is special use. All get about daily use but I'd say the Myland cleaver the most.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Oh, that is actually the Myland cleaver. Myland just copies everything Dexter does Try a Dexter when you have a chance.

I will put you down for cleaver or nakir, probably nakiri.

[Quine]

I just don't like Dexters, never have and doubtfully will. The Myland was really cheap at a Chinatown shop in NYC, holds a really decent edge and it feels good in my hand.

[cowboyardee]

The Dexter cleaver doesn't feel anything like other Dexter knives. You would think it was made by an entirely different company. Dead ringer for your Myland cleaver, lookswise at least.

Nice profile, decent geometry for a Western maker, very strange feel for a Dexter. Sharpens up well. Edge retention seemed to be quite lacking, but the only one I ever played with was pretty old.

[Quine]

Thanks for that review cowboyardee. Next time I see one I will at least pick up to see how it feels, Edge retention is a big deal to me. The Myland does a very good job with that. All in all, it turned out to be a great addition. And as I recall, it was only around $5.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Although Dexter edge retention is not great, it is not bad. It is better than Myland's edge retention. cowboy has a lot of experience with hard steel knives, so his experience and expectation are different than most people.

[Quine]

That's probably true, I only have 50 some years using kitchen knives. It's hard for me to know what I expect and like in performance. Thank you for the advice Chemical. I always learn something new in your responses.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I only have 50 some years using kitchen knives. It's hard for me to know what I expect and like in performance. "

Just trying to give the perspective of steel hardness and edge retention. People like cowboy and me (to some extent) like to really push to see the limit of knife performance. Like cutting a phone book with a knife or shaving hair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzeg1HfbmkA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aznVqK...

Dexter-Russell Chinese cleavers do not have the steel hardness or the edge retention of these high end hard steel knives. Cowboyardee and I have some common knives, so I agree with him that Dexter cleavers cannot compare with say Chan Chi Kee Chinese cleaver or Tojiro DP (VG-10) knife, and definitely nowhere close to any Aogami knives. However, Dexter are made of better steel than the very cheap Chinese cleavers. I bet you that you have tried. If you try Dexter Chinese cleavers, then I am sure you will find they have better edge retention than Winco or Myland cleavers.

[Quine]

Yum, those Carters look awesome. Sorry, I thought talking stuff like shaving hair would have come across as too alpha dog. Again, I learn new stuff.

Funny how when a Master bladesmith makes a blade, be it for kitchen, field or defense, it's all about the blade. But to post about a blade here that is not standard kitchen, it is seem as bad thing. Hum. Just saying, K, thanks.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"shaving hair would have come across as too alpha dog"

No, I mean everyone has different expectation. Cowboyardee and others have a very in depth experience of knives. So in comparison to some of these high steel knives, many will conclude that Wusthof and Henckels have poor retention. Yet, Wusthof and Henckels have great edge retention in many people views. So what I want to stated that Dexter Chinese cleavers have poor edge retention if they are compared to a Japanese Aogami knife, but Dexter cleavers have good edge retention if they are compared to faberware knives. Shaving hair is not alpha dog. Spanish FIGHTING knife is. That implies you can beat me up or something. :) Very alpha male. Shaving? Not so much.

"But to post about a blade here that is not standard kitchen, it is seem as bad thing."

Actually I didn't get this part. Who post anything that is not a standard kitchen blade, aside from your Spanish fighting knife?

[Quine]

Geesh, can you get your head out of the cloud please? Here is the WIki link: I only used the term because that *is* the definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navaja

I suppose if someone tells you (in a post no less) they have a rapier, you think they are going to go all Princess Bride on you? Wait, no Capt. Sparrow, yeah. But that is OK, I am very secure in being not alpha and being not male.
Please do read to the end of the article, that person listed as references, and author of citations is my instructor.

So much for just trying to say in a pic, look at this beautiful blade, Apparently saying what it is had me barking up the wrong tree. Me bad.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Please do read to the end of the article, that person listed as references, and author of citations is my instructor. "

Ok, here is the reference:

Loriega, James. Sevillian Steel : The Traditional Knife-Fighting Arts Of Spain. Paladin Press.

What are you to say by pointing out that your instructor is an expert of knife fighting.

P.S.: Captain Jack Sparrow does not use a rapier. He uses a hanger.

[cowboyardee]

"Although Dexter edge retention is not great, it is not bad. It is better than Myland's edge retention. cowboy has a lot of experience with hard steel knives, so his experience and expectation are different than most people."
_______
It actually went beyond that - it seemed to be genuinely poor, even more so than many other Western knives, like classic Wusthof and such.

But there's a caveat - I only played with one, and it was an older knife that needed a major retuning it was so dull. I basically ground a whole new edge for it along with edge bevels. I then resharpened it periodically for the next year or so. It was used by a friend of mine.

So in terms of edge retention, I'm not sure what exactly the problem was - I don't know whether I ground past the well tempered steel, or if Dexter cleavers used to be made of softer stuff, or if it was just that particular blade, or even if it was the way my friend used it (though his other knives didn't have that problem).

I'll take your word for it that it wasn't representative of normal edge retention for Dexter Chinese cleavers.

[Quine]

Thanks Cowboy. Actually I am surprised how nicely this Myland is holding up. It was a whim purchase about 7 years ago. I pretty much just bought it because I like trying out different knife styles. Turns out I do like the style very much, I am just very happy with how this one is working for me.
But if I were to look to purchase another, your advice gives me a lot of input. Sounds like I just got lucky on this one.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"it seemed to be genuinely poor, even more so than many other Western knives, like classic Wusthof and such."

"I'll take your word for it that it wasn't representative of normal edge retention for Dexter Chinese cleavers."

Cowboy, you misunderstood me. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I agree with you. What I was saying is that different people have different expectation. Someone like you have seen a lot of good knives and Dexter Russell is not going to impressive you. However, many people have only experienced knives like Faberware, Winco, ..etc, and Dexter Russell is better than those. It is all relative, right?

The Dexter Chinese cleaver knife has a softer steel than Wusthof and Henckels. I have used these knives side by side and I have some metal information directly from these makers. Dexter Chinese cleaver is about HRC 55-56. and Wusthof is about 57-58 I believe. Knives like Myland, Winco, Daways are noticeably worse than Dexter.

Daways is of most particular interest, and I know you will enjoy this. Dexter Russell Chinese knife enjoys a very good reputation in the Chinese communities in US. It has a particular knife profile as you know, and Winco, Myland, Daways have pretty much copied it. However, Daways went one step further. It copies its name in Chinese. Here you can see a Dexter Russell Chinese knife. Notice it has English brand name and Chinese brand name on the blade

http://www.dexter1818.com/RHImages/Large/08040.jpg

Now, look at Daways, it copies the same pattern, and has very similar name in Chinese. I got confused the first time I saw the knife too. Today, I have just came back from my local Chinatown and have re-verified the Daways' text in person:

http://images.cloud.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/0407/15/1_04cd4b3f11d88238bdc420632d1d5d15.jpg

http://allnew-online.com/yahoo_site_a...

Now, if Dexter does not have a great reputation, then people do not have to go out of their ways to copy it -- shamelessly copy it by the way.

I have talked to store owners like Tane Chan from the SF Chinatown Wokshop and General Restaurant Equipment Supply in Philadelphia Chinatown, so they will tell you pretty much the same thing.

[buttertart]

My Dexter Chinese cleaver dates from maybe 1975 and is still going strong. By the way the second link doesn't work...

[cowboyardee]

I'm not saying the knife won't last a home cook a good long time. Just that the one I played with needed sharpening quite often in order to keep the edge as sharp as I'd like.

[buttertart]

Good point.

[cowboyardee]

Once again Chem, you haven't given us your answer. I'm gonna guess you're still favoring your nakiris?

I feel relatively certain your answer right now isn't: D) santoku

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) I still like my CCK cleaver quiet a bit, but yes, I like the Watanabe Nakiri a lot.

:) Yes, I don't use my CarboNext santoku very often. Are Eiron and you going to write a review?

[cowboyardee]

I will anyway. Can't speak for Eiron.

[cowboyardee]

Update: The Carbonext is fully sharpened up and ready to go. But I have to leave for a weekend of 13 hour shifts and I don't think I'll get a chance to mail it until monday. I'm very sorry for the delay.

That said, this has been an excellent experience and I thank you for allowing it. I'll consider sending something around if people are interested. You can expect the knife along with my review by the middle of next week.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Got your email as well. Don't worry, take your time. It will be nice to see if Greg and you have similar feelings of the CarboNext knife. Take your time with the review, and write whatever you feel about the knife. I bought the knife. I didn't make it. There is no special relationship between me and the knife. :) Too bad Petek lives in Canada, or he would have been the third person test driving it.

[Eiron]

Do you want the reviews added to your Quick Review, or posted in a separate review (or two)?

[Chemicalkinetics]

Either way is fine. :) (If you think your is a short review, then probably is better tag under my previous review, but if yours are pretty descriptive, then I think either way is fine)

[buttertart]

k) none of the above at the moment (I still haven't lashed out on a nakiri) - I love my cheapass "zui putong de" Kiwi Thai cleaver. Have stopped using a Benriner or other Japanese slicer because it's faster and more fun to slice with the Kiwi.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"zui putong de"

Ha ha ha. Kiwi offers various shape of cleavers, some like Japanese nakiri, some like Chinese cleaver. For example, the second from the top one has a very similar shape as a nakiri:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/wokshop_2176_...

[buttertart]

That's the one I have, cost a princely $7.98 at Kam Man in Manhattan Chinatown. Pretty close to a nakiri. It could do with a nicer handle but I really like it anyway.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I had the pleasure sharpened a Kiwi knife for a friend and I was amazed at its quality even the low price. From my limited experience of test driving it, I think its steel is comparable to a Dexter knife. The Kiwi handle is worse than Dexter. Nevertheless, the steel is better than many average knives we find in stores like those Faberware, Henckels International or KitchenAid knives.

In this case, I am switching your favorite knife back to nakiri (as opposed to 'Others')

[buttertart]

Nakiri it is.

[inaplasticcup]

So which would you call the top one, Ck? Because that is my fave. :)

[Chemicalkinetics]

inaplsticcup,

Missed you message. It is a hybrid between a traditional Chinese cleaver and a little twist of Western Chef's knife -- a little curve, a little tip. For awhile, Martin Yan was also selling knives like this:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/asianconnecti...

I would probably still classify it under the Chinese cleaver.

[Westy]

Dexter makes a nice Nakiri. I got it as a back-up for my cleaver. It is fantastic for carrots, etc.. I like the leaver though, when splitting open heads cabbage. Ther eis that satisying "WHUNK!"

[Chemicalkinetics]

Dexter Russell made at least two styles of knife which are of "Nakiri" favor. Some belongs to its Chinese Chef's knife series. They are basically narrower version of a Chinese Cleaver, but has the same overall design. Most are from its Traditional series:

http://www.katom.com/catimgs/dexter-russell-chinese-knives-large.jpg

It also offers a more Japanese inspired Nakiri from its International series:

http://www.twinsupply.com/dextercutle...

Which one do you have?

[Westy]

Traditional Series.

[inaplasticcup]

Thanks! If Yan can do it, so can you!!! :P

[jhamiltonwa]

I love my Kiwi knives. By far the best value for money item in my ktichen. You can get them in the many oriental supermarkets down here in Australia; I buy them often and give them to friends. I use the santoku shape most (third one down on Chemical's photo). It was love of this Kiwi that led me to purchase my Kanetsune santoku.

[buttertart]

I will definitely get whatever ones I can lay hands on. They really are fun.

[Eiron]

C

[strangemd]

C-Gyuto, by far and away. Especially if you get to count 210 and 270 lengths.

[cowboyardee]

C - gyuto.

I actually have one of everything on that list except for the sujihiki - which will be my next purchase - and the santoku. I almost never use the bread knife or the utility knife. Here's roughly the order of my usage:

1 - Gyuto
2 - Chinese cleaver, nakiri, french chefs knife (all just for fun when I don't feel like using the gyuto)
5 - Paring knife
6 - None of the above (honesuki)
7 - German chefs knife
8 - Bread knife
9 - Utility knife, right handed & slightly misground yanagiba

[skyline]

Wow, this is tough (between two).

If you'd asked this a month or so ago, before I bought a Hattori nakiri, I'd have said C (a Shun) without hesitation. But now .....

.... I'd have to say E, followed VERY closely by C (closely enough to be a tie but if I absolutely HAVE TO choose just one, it's the nakiri). The reason it's such a tough call is that while I like the "cutting feel" of the nakiri better, the Shun handle feels a bit more comfortable in my hand. It also depends on what I am cutting; softer veggies always get the nakiri, but when I am cutting up carrots, parsnips, etc I always use the Shun; if I am cutting a mixture of hard and softer veggies OR if I am going to be spending a long time at the cutting board, it's usually the Shun. Shorter stints get the nakiri, again only because I find the Shun handle more comfortable).

We are vegetarians which I'm sure accounts for the fact that the nakiri is most suited to the cutting jobs that I do.

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) Although Shun knives are made in Japan, Shun Chef's knife shaped like a German Chef's knife and less of a gyuto. Anyway, I put you down for Nakiri.

[TeRReT]

Definitely D at the moment

[petek]

C,D and something you missed a honesuki/boning..

[Chemicalkinetics]

Petek,

:) Which of the three do you use the most and find more useful? I am trying to assign one vote per person. :D

[petek]

"Which of the three do you use the most and find more useful?"

C for sure....

[Delucacheesemonger]

(H) Dexter 7" AP (3378)
(K) Dexter 10" chefs (48910)

Both American, both very old, both soft carbon steel

[Chemicalkinetics]

Delucacheesamonger,

Will it be correct to say that you use Dexter 10"Chef's the most? Or do you use the utility knife more often?

Dexter-Russell Chef's knife is German style. When I wrote German Chef's knife and French Chef's knife, I really meant the style, not so much the manufacturer location. For example, this Dexter-Russell Chinese Chef's knife is made in USA, but it would classified as a Chinese Chef's knife for this poll:

http://www.dexter-russell.com/Item_de...

[Delucacheesemonger]

10: the most, yes, of course, change my 'K' to an 'A'

[Delucacheesemonger]

On second thought, the one knife l use more than any other is a seven inch chef's knife style made by Vernon Raaen from Tennessee. Sorry to waffle.

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) That's cool. Presumbly this Vernon Raaen Chef's knife is still of German Chef's knife profile.

[Delucacheesemonger]

Just to screw you up, looked at images of all the knife types listed and my V Raaen looks exactly like a gyuto, so you figure it out <8:)

[Chemicalkinetics]

Hmm... :) Hmm, in that case, I can switch your vote. Please let me know if I forget to update your preference in the next update. Thanks.

[inaplasticcup]

I can't wait to see the pie graph, Ck... ;)

[DPGood]

A)

[cosmogrrl]

D. A shun version. Adore it. Also use I and and J often, if not daily

[Kelli2006]

B.)8" carbon steel Thiers Issard.

or

A.)6" Forged Forschner.

[twyst]

Gyuto and its not even close.

[skaboy]

C and J

[Chemicalkinetics]

Can I assume you use your gyuto much more than your paring knife and therefore narrow down your final answer to (C)? :)

If you indeed use your paring knife more, then let me know. Thanks.

[mateo21]

I'll most likely be in the minority, but G. I find I'm reaching less and less for my other knives... especially that nakiri.

[Chemicalkinetics]

G as in a Chinese cleaver? Maybe I ask what kind Chinese cleaver you have? Just curious. Thanks in advance.

"I'll most likely be in the minority"

Mateo, consider the way I set up the poll, I don't think there will be a majority, so everyone will be a minority. :) To be specific, no one choice will exceed 50% I think.

[mateo21]

CCK 1103 got me started. I'm the very happy recent recipient of a Konosuke White #2 Chuka.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Thanks

[RealMenJulienne]

G is my choice as well. I have a thin-bladed Chinese cleaver for slicing meat and vegetables, and a thick-bladed one for heavy-duty cutting and smashing. I really would like to pick up some of these Western chef's knives and see what they're about though.

[Dave5440]

C mainly, I a fair bit, and "L" deba occasionaly