Can we talk Michelin in NYC?
I was privileged to eat in three of Manhattan's 1-Michelin-Star restaurants this past week, and writing my reviews and comparing the restaurants (in addition to thinking back on meals at other 1, 2 and 3-star restaurants) has really gotten me thinking about what makes a dining experience great and star-worthy.
According to an article I found online, the Michelin system works like this:
One Star:
"A very good restaurant in its own Category"
Two Stars:
"Excellent cooking, worth a detour"
Three Stars:
"Exceptional cuisine, worth a special journey.
One always eats extremely well here, sometimes superbly"
CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF STARS:
Commonly misunderstood, criteria like: table setting, number of waiters, quality of facilities or equipment are NOT taken into account.
There are only five criteria considered in awarding a Michelin Star;
1) Quality of ingredients
2) Skill in preparing them and in combining flavours
3) Level of creativity
4) Consistency of culinary standards
5) Value for money
Having read all of that, some (but not all) of the places in NYC that carry one star make a little more sense to me. However, I am still totally mystified as to how Del Posto and EMP can have only one star, while Daniel has three. Also, how can a restaurant like SHO have a star at all, if EMP has only one? And why would a place like Public get a star, while Tocqueville is totally ignored?
Here are links to my reviews of the three 1-Stars I visited last week, plus one from a couple of months ago:
Del Posto: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/809644
EMP: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/809465
Public: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/809246
SHO Shaun Hergatt: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/803387
And a link to my review of Tocqueville: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/809282
Please share your thoughts and link your reviews! I look forward to some interesting discussion and debate.
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<CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF STARS:
Commonly misunderstood, criteria like: table setting, number of waiters, quality of facilities or equipment are NOT taken into account.There are only five criteria considered in awarding a Michelin Star;
1) Quality of ingredients
2) Skill in preparing them and in combining flavours
3) Level of creativity
4) Consistency of culinary standards
5) Value for money >How interesting to see that's listed by Michelin folks. Wonder whether they also claim that is true for France. Because I've been told by insiders that unless the inside of the restaurant is obscenely luxurious, there is no hope for a third star. So I wonder whether that list is more for show than for real?
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salvati
Oct 4, 2011 04:42 PM
What's Michelin and why do we care? So outdated. So mundane. Who cares?
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re: salvati
Despite the fact that Michelin is skewed, often wrong, outdated, and that the book has terrible descriptions, etc....it makes restaurants money. Any restaurant that adds a star (especially a third) will automatically get a boost. Obviously some of these weren't struggling for customers, but it gets the chefs fame, cookbook deals, traffic from people like celebrities or people from outside the U.S. who simply look at who has michelin stars.
That's why I think it matters, personally. Really though it's just fun to argue the pros/cons of each restaurant and the choices.
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re: wreckers00
And as food lovers we all want our opinions to be validated by an external benchmark, which is why Michelin generates so much discussion on Chowhound. It's all good fun, just someone else's opinion versus yours and mine.
The list is debatable for sure, but I do appreciate the attention it draws to restaurants that I never think about visiting like Joel Robuchon, Rosanjin, etc. Personally I'm disappointed that 15 East, Sushi Yasuda, Lincoln, and a few others didn't merit inclusion, but then again there's always hope for next year. I mean hey, Tori Shin and Junoon made it this year, how cool is that.
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15 East
15 East 15th Street, New York, NY 10003Sushi Yasuda
204 E 43rd St, New York, NY 10017Rosanjin
141 Duane Street, New York, NY 10013
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re: Tommy D.
When a dining counter that at the time of publication had no wine program gets three stars, I think it's pretty clear that the traditional rules aren't being applied. (And that nonsense that "only what's on the plate matters" -- the European Michelin guides were NEVER like that.)
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Here it is. Congrats to Brooklyn Fare and EMP!
THREE STARS
Chef's Table at Brooklyn Fare*
Daniel
Eleven Madison Park*
Jean Georges
Le Bernardin
Masa
Per SeTWO STARS
Corton
Gilt
Gordon Ramsay at The London
Kajitsu
L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon*
Marea
Momofuku Ko
SHO Shaun Hergatt*
SotoONE STAR
Adour
Ai Fiori (N)
Aldea
annisa
Aureole
A Voce Columbus
A Voce Madison
Blue Hill
Bouley
Breslin (The)
Brushstroke (N)
Cafe Boulud
Casa Mono
Danji (N)
Danny Brown Wine Bar & Kitchen
Del Posto
Dovetail
Dressler
Gotham Bar and Grill
Gramercy Tavern
Heartbreak (N)
Jewel Bako
Junoon (N)
Kyo Ya
Laut
Marc Forgione
Minetta Tavern
Modern (The)
Oceana
Peter Luger
Picholine*
Public
River Cafe
Rosanjin (N)
Rouge Tomate
Saul
Seasonal
Spotted Pig
Sushi Azabu
Sushi of Gari
Tamarind Tribeca (N)
Tori Shin (N)
Tulsi (N)
Veritas
Wallse
wd~50* denotes change
(N) denotes new additionhttp://ny.eater.com/archives/2011/10/...
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Per Se
10 Columbus Circle, New York, NY 10019Cafe Boulud
20 East 76th St., New York, NY 10021Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010Gramercy Tavern
42 E 20th St, New York, NY 10003Casa Mono
52 Irving Place, New York, NY 10003Blue Hill
75 Washington Place, New York, NY 10011Jean Georges
1 Central Park W, New York, NY 10023Spotted Pig
314 W 11th St, New York, NY 10014Wallse
344 W. 11th St., New York, NY 10014Del Posto
85 10th Avenue, New York, NY 10011Minetta Tavern
113 MacDougal St, New York, NY 10012A Voce
41 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10010Veritas
43 East 20th St., New York, NY 10003Le Bernardin
155 W. 51st St., New York, NY 10019Gari
370 Columbus Avenue, New York, NY 10024Jewel Bako
239 E 5th St, New York, NY 10003Gotham Bar and Grill
12 East 12th Street, New York, NY 10003L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon
57 E 57th St, New York, NY 10022Picholine
35 West 64th St., New York, NY 10023Kyo Ya
94 E 7th St, New York, NY 10009Momofuku Ko
163 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003Rosanjin
141 Duane Street, New York, NY 10013Oceana
120 W 49th St, New York, NY 10020Marc Forgione
134 Reade Street, New York, NY 10013Laut
15 E 17th St, New York, NY 10003Sushi Azabu
428 Greenwich St (basement), New York, NY 10013Corton
239 West Broadway, New York, NY 10013Rouge Tomate
10 East 60th Street, New York, NY 10022Kajitsu
414 East 9th Street, New York, NY 10009Marea
240 Central Park South, New York, NY 10019Aldea
31 West 17th Street, New York, NY 10011SHO Shaun Hergatt
40 Broad St, New York, NY 10004The Breslin
20 W 29th St, New York, NY 10001Masa
10 Columbus Cir, New York, NY 10019Tulsi
211 E 46th St, New York, NY 10017Danji
346 W 52nd St, New York, NY 10019Ai Fiori
400 5th Ave, New York, NY 10018Junoon
27 W 24th St, New York, NY 10010›11 Replies-
re: H Manning
Cheeryvisage
Oct 4, 2011 01:19 PM
I'm really pleased for SHO Shaun Hergatt's promotion to two stars. Glad it's being recognized.
Sucks for Picholine though. :/
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SHO Shaun Hergatt
40 Broad St, New York, NY 10004-
re: Cheeryvisage
biondanonima
Oct 5, 2011 08:24 AM
This was actually the biggest shocker of all for me - IMO, our visit to SHO didn't even rate ONE star, let alone two!
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re: H Manning
Winterpool
Oct 4, 2011 02:33 PM
I'm so irrationally pleased for Eleven Madison Park, I'd dine there tonight to celebrate the distinction properly... if there were any tables available, heh.
Congratulations!
PS biondanonima, you've an answer from Michelin: Eleven Madison Park and SHO are -not- merely one-star restaurants after all.
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Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010-
re: Winterpool
biondanonima
Oct 5, 2011 08:25 AM
LOL - I agree with them about EMP, but DEFINITELY not about SHO. I was incredibly underwhelmed with our meal there. How a restaurant that says "sorry, our sommelier is out tonight" gets 2-stars is simply beyond me!
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re: sheio
Winterpool
Oct 5, 2011 08:43 AM
I'd overlooked Ai Fiori on my first hasty scan of the list, but to my mind Ai Fiori epitomises the one-star restaurant. It may not be worth crossing a continent or an ocean, but the food is very good, and the service thoroughly professional. It's my new go-to restaurant in central Midtown (replacing db which disappointed me a couple of times this year).
Congratulations Chef Jaeckle (and of course Michael White).
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DB Bistro Moderne
55 West 44th Street, New York, NY 10036Ai Fiori
400 5th Ave, New York, NY 10018
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re: H Manning
Winterpool
Oct 5, 2011 03:20 PM
Revisiting the list, I wonder why Michelin doesn't care for Colicchio... I've only dined at Craftbar and Colicchio And Sons once, and my dinner at the latter was rather disappointing, but Sifton has given 3 stars to both Craft and Colicchio and Sons, so I'd expect at least one of them to merit a Michelin star?
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Craftbar
900 Broadway, New York, NY 10003Colicchio & Sons
85 10th Ave, New York, NY 10011-
re: Winterpool
Tom wrote some nasty stuff about them after last year's list came out. I think he is pissed that Craft doesn't have a star. I think it probably deserves one. I have never had a less than very good meal there, and it was my go to restaurant for a while and I have had, probably, fifteen to twenty meals there.
If places like Dovetail, Minetta Tavern, and Blue Hill have stars (all three of those are places I frequented and enjoyed while living in NYC), it is really hard to see why Craft does not.
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Blue Hill
75 Washington Place, New York, NY 10011Minetta Tavern
113 MacDougal St, New York, NY 10012
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I'm going to go against the Chowhound grain and say that EMP is not at the 3-star level, though I would not argue against a second. We ate there a few weeks ago, and while all the dishes were very good only the duck stood out as remarkable. This was in contrast to our meal at Le Bernardin earlier this year, where almost all of the tasting menu dishes were as good (or better than) the EMP duck.
That said, EMP did outshine a number of the other 1-star places we've been to.
Don't get me wrong - we really enjoyed the food, service and experience at EMP and will be back at some point, but to us it didn't rise to the "worth a special journey" level.
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Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010Le Bernardin
155 W. 51st St., New York, NY 10019›2 Replies-
re: JHunter
As a big fan of EMP I have nothing against EMP having 2 stars on an absolute scale. The new guides of the past decade have distorted the fact that it used to take forever for 2 star eateries to attain a third star. That very quest burned out Marco Pierre White.
But the question is about a relative scale. Most advocates of EMP being on the three star level have no problem with Per Se or Le Bernardin having three stars. Most of them have issues with how EMP compares with restaurants like Daniel or Gordon Ramsay or Gilt. If Daniel has three stars and Gordon Ramsay has two, EMP most certainly is closer to three, let alone one.
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re: fooder
This is how I feel. I have no problem with EMP having two-stars, but there is no way Daniel or Jean Georges (let alone GR or Gilt) deserve more stars than it does.
I would be perfectly content with an NYC list that lowered Daniel and JG (and maybe even LB) down to 2 stars and elevated EMP up to join them, but until that happens, EMP should be recognized as their peer. I wonder how much the EMP issue is really a symptom of the guide's lethargy. EMP has been constantly improving while many other restaurants on the list have plateaued (LB, JG). Perhaps it will just take some time for the estimates to catch up with reality.
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Jean Georges
1 Central Park W, New York, NY 10023
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sgordon
Sep 29, 2011 09:35 AM
Looking over the Bib Gourmand picks, we can see the restaurants that WON'T be getting stars this year:
Roberta's
Momofuku Ssam Bar
Dirt Candy
HanGawi
Prune
...and a number of others. What's amazing is that their criteria for "Bib Gourmand" - two courses plus wine or dessert for $40 or under - would be difficult to do at many of the restos they've listed. Maybe if you order THE cheapest app, entree, and glass of wine, it'd come to $39 at a few of them - and at a few of them I'm not even sure that'd be possible (quick look at the Apizz menu - the first one alphabetically I doubted - show it'd come to $41, actually)
And what to make of restaurants that serve food that isn't broken into "app" and "entree" categories, a la Momofuku? Or Chinese restaurants that serve dishes family-style? Simply because it's POSSIBLE to get two courses and a drink for $40 doesn't mean that's the average check, or that a restaurant doesn't offer a great deal more. My gf and have been to Ping's Seafood a couple times recently - one night we spent $50 for the two of us, another night $110. They didn't make the list, but I use them as an example since their prices are comparable to, say, Oriental Garden, which did. And which probably deserves a one-star, as they are undoubtedly a "very good restaurant in their category"
But Chinatown is relegated to Bib Gourmand status, I guess, because it's... inherently inferior food, I guess, to the mystery reviewers?
An interesting thing to note about Michelin's review process: stars are awarded in meetings in which all the reviewers get together to discuss and debate, rather than all of them simply submitting reviews and ratings and someone averaging them out. Thus, one dominant personality could quite seriously skew the ratings, those critics who have tastes that don't align with the room's Francophilic "mainstream" could be pushed to the side, and if it's felt they're too "outside the box" not be invited back the next year. It's a process that rewards conformity and submission to the group, and a certain similarity year after year.
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Momofuku Ssam Bar
207 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003Apizz
217 Eldridge St., New York, NY 10002HanGawi
12 E 32nd St, New York, NY 10016Oriental Garden
14 Elizabeth St, New York, NY 10013Ping's
22 Mott St, New York, NY 10013Prune
54 E 1st St, New York, NY 10003Dirt Candy
430 East 9th Street, New York, NY 10009›16 Replies-
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re: sgordon
loratliff
Sep 29, 2011 10:36 AM
sgordon, nothing else to add other than wholehearted agreement, especially with your comments re: geography above.
On another note, does anyone think that Bib Gourmand designation essentially "bans" a restaurant from receiving stars in the future? I remember reading somewhere that inspectors don't seem to even consider Bib Gourmand-class restaurants when awarding stars. If so, that is very sad for Roberta's, Prune, and a few others on the list.
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re: loratliff
sgordon
Sep 29, 2011 11:40 AM
Iget the feeling that Michelin reviewers don't really re-visit places much, and once a designation has been set it's pretty much set - thus GR@TL keeping its two stars, etc. Certainly Roberta's, MSB, Prune, etc, all deserve one-star consideration, but I don't know of any restuarants that have been on BOTH lists. I think BG is basically "Honorable Mention" - they're not expensive or fancy enough (in Michelin's eyes) to deserve stars, so they're stuck in the BG ghetto.
Any predictions for this year? Or maybe we should have another thread for that. Some of mine are already shot (I figured Ssam Bar to move up and for Roberta's to get a star, but, oh well...)
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re: sgordon
Bob Martinez
Sep 29, 2011 11:46 AM
A few things stand out.
First, the Michelin folks have fallen out of love with BBQ. Blue Smoke, Daisy May's, and Dinosaur, which appeared on the 2011 BG list, have all been thrown off the bus.
Second, this list continues to be hit or miss. The fact that Al Di La doesn't rate a BG is beyond perverse. I'm sure you can supply your own examples of obvious omissions and inexplicable additions.
Finally, to the point of being stupefyingly obvious, Michelin knows fuck all about Asian cuisines outside of Japanese. Sripraphai is absent for the 3rd straight year. (Yes, they rightfully added Ayada but that doesn't make up for it. The sloppily run Zaab Elee makes the list.) Also missing are Spicy & Tasty and Lan Sheng, both of them far better than the newly added Great Sichuan. And they couldn't find a single branch of the Grand Sichuan International chain worthy of a BG? Really?
Their aversion to Indian cuisine has become legendary. Not a single Indian restaurant rates a BG - not Devi, not Tulsi, not Dhaba. Maybe the newly opened Tulsi will sneak it's way on to the starred list but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Daisy May's BBQ
623 11th Ave, New York, NY 10036Devi
8 East 18th Street, New York, NY 10003Blue Smoke
116 East 27th Street, New York, NY 10016Dhaba
108 Lexington Avenue, New York, NY 10016Dinosaur Bar-B-Que
777 W. 125th Street, New York, NY 10027Lan Sheng
60 W 39th St, New York, NY 10018Great Sichuan
363 3rd Ave, New York, NY 10016Tulsi
211 E 46th St, New York, NY 10017Zabb Elee
75 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003-
re: Bob Martinez
biondanonima
Sep 29, 2011 12:12 PM
Yes, I was very surprised not to see Sripraphai, as well as the glaring omissions from Flushing. Indian, too. At least Queens is on there, though - the whole borough might as well not exist when it comes to most "best of" lists.
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re: Bob Martinez
Winterpool
Sep 29, 2011 12:14 PM
I presumed certain restaurants weren't included under Bib Gourmand because they cost too much, but given the contortions necessary to come within BG budget at some of the listed restaurants, now I'm not so sure. This may again illustrate that Michelin does not consistently observe its own ratings criteria...
Given the recent @MichelinGuideNY Twitter debacle, does anyone believe the inspectors do visit all these restaurants every year?
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re: Bob Martinez
sgordon
Sep 29, 2011 12:17 PM
I don't want to get on them about omissions... yet. We don't know what might show up on the starred list. Maybe, finally, Devi gets in there? Or Tulsi? I doubt it, given their history with Indian cuisine, but you never know... prior to last year you could say they knew fuck-all about Japanese cuisine, but a couple of (deserving) upgrades to two stars for Soto and Kajitsu gave the impression they were expanding their scope a little. Maybe Chinese will make it this year? Oriental Garden, South China Garden, and a couple others made the BG list... maybe Ping's, noticeably absent, will get a star? (Again, I doubt it...)
Could be Al Di La got the upgrade, as well. I've never been the biggesat fan of them, but I know a number of people dig 'em.
Personally, hoping Aquavit gets back on the one-star list. I think after some growing pains, Jernmark's menu is getting better and better. And hey, it's right in their Midtown preferred territory.
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Aquavit
65 E 55th St, New York, NY 10022Soto
357 6th Avenue, New York, NY 10014South China Garden
22 Elizabeth St, New York, NY 10013Oriental Garden
14 Elizabeth St, New York, NY 10013Ping's
22 Mott St, New York, NY 10013Kajitsu
414 East 9th Street, New York, NY 10009Tulsi
211 E 46th St, New York, NY 10017-
re: sgordon
biondanonima
Sep 29, 2011 01:01 PM
Aquavit was certainly deserving of a star (or maybe two) when I ate there a few years ago - I haven't been back since Jernmark took over though. The menu does look intriguing, however. I'll have to put it on my list to repeat soon.
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Aquavit
65 E 55th St, New York, NY 10022
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re: fm1963
Bob Martinez
Oct 4, 2011 01:14 PM
Might as well take this opportunity to fess up that I missed both those places in my earlier rant. They've been on the Michelin BG list for years.
Tulsi got a star this year. Good for them.
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Tulsi
211 E 46th St, New York, NY 10017-
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re: H Manning
Bob Martinez
Oct 4, 2011 08:53 PM
Junoon and Tamarind are brand new stars. They were never on the list before. Together with Tulsi, that makes three. The previous record for Indian stars was only one.
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Tulsi
211 E 46th St, New York, NY 10017Junoon
27 W 24th St, New York, NY 10010
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sgordon
Sep 29, 2011 07:40 AM
There was a long thread about last year's Michelin picks. But yeah, they're a bit of a joke, and I think for the most part they're not taken as seriously as they were in the past. Sure, some (older) tourists rely on them, or on Zagat, but I think more and more in the era of the internet are actually doing a bit of research regarding where to spend their high-end dining dollars.
There's no question that the Michelin NYC critics are Francophiles, and until very recently showed a shocking lack of knowledge about any Asian cuisine, though with the elevation of Soto and Kajitsu last year to the two-star club it seems they've started to expand their horizons to Japan, at least. Chinese cuisine, though, is SOL. I find it hard to believe that not one restaurant in Chinatown is "a very good restaurant in it's category" - but my guess is that most Michelin NYC critics have never set foot below 14th Street, let alone in Chinatown.
Their opinions regarding Italian food are a bit odd. They like Michael "Midtown Mario" White, but they don't much like Mario "Actual Mario" Batali, that's clear. Babbo didn't even rank, while Alto (really!?) and Marea both got two stars last year. I suspect Ai Fiori will replace the shuttered Alto on the two-star list this year. But there's a reason for that, I think... Geography.
It brings up the other, less commented on quirk of Michelin NYC: how Midtown-centric it is. As I noted last year, every single three-star and half of the two-stars are within ten blocks of Central Park South. Their three-star list is bascially the NYT four-star list... only leaving out the two four-star restaurants outside that geographic box.
They're also quite slow on change - a new place that gets a lot of hype will take a couple years to finally show up. Especially if it's outside their Midtown zone, and god help them if they're in Brooklyn. Any two-star that's dropped in quality will likely take years to fall to one. I mean, did anyone think Gordon Ramsey at The London was a two-star last year? It probably will be again this year.
It's really nothing to be taken seriously, but of course there'll be hot debates next week when the lists come out.
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Soto
357 6th Avenue, New York, NY 10014Babbo
110 Waverly Pl, New York, NY 10011Kajitsu
414 East 9th Street, New York, NY 10009Marea
240 Central Park South, New York, NY 10019Ai Fiori
400 5th Ave, New York, NY 10018›2 Replies-
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re: sgordon
Winterpool
Sep 29, 2011 09:14 AM
Ah, yes, I do wonder if Ai Fiori will earn a star or two. It certainly has the layers of staff (and flowers) that bespeak 'Michelin'. The food seems a solid one-star to me (perhaps two by NY standards, but I don't really think so).
My great hope, of course, is that Michelin will recognise the effort and $ put in by Eleven Madison Park to advance into the top ranks. It shot up quite a bit on the San Pellegrino -Restaurant- magazine list.
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Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010Ai Fiori
400 5th Ave, New York, NY 10018
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Timely thread. The Bib Gourmand picks for NYC just came out:
http://ny.eater.com/archives/2011/09/...The 2012 Michelin stars will be announced on Oct. 4.
›6 Replies-
re: fm1963
It's an interesting list, but if their criteria is "two courses and wine or dessert for $40 a head" I think that is a stretch for most of these.
I notice a lot of these places are "small plates" places. While it's true you could order 2 plates at Robataya or Boqueria and squeak by under 40 bucks, you would not have had a filling meal there.
I would grudgingly say it's actually a pretty decently curated list though.
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Boqueria
53 W 19th St, New York, NY 10011Robataya NY
231 E 9th St, New York, NY 10003-
re: InfoMofo
Daisy May's is hit or miss, dependent upon what you get, and the service is poor.
Fatty Cue $40 for 2 courses + 1 glass wine is unrealistic. Prune is too pricey for this list also.
202 has CLOSED (hello, fact checkers)!
Zabb Elee should be there if Zabb Queens is on there.
And Golden Unicorn & Jaiya? I don't think they merit inclusion. My meals there have been fine but nothing special.
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Golden Unicorn
18 E Broadway, New York, NY 10002Jaiya
396 3rd Ave, New York, NY 10016Zabb Elee
75 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003-
re: kathryn
Both the East Village and Queens locations of Zabb Elee are on the list.
The most egregious omission was Motorino, considering that Keste was included. Tori Shin was also dropped. But I'm glad that Jean Claude, Rubirosa, Hung Ry, and Congee Village were recognized.
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Congee Village
100 Allen St, New York, NY 10002Jean Claude
137 Sullivan St, New York, NY 10012Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003Hung Ry
55 Bond St, New York, NY 10012Rubirosa
235 Mulberry St, New York, NY 10012Zabb Elee
75 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10003-
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re: kathryn
hcbk0702
Sep 30, 2011 07:01 PM
Motorino was a Bib Gourmand in last year's guide; looks like Michelin consciously dropped them this year, perhaps in response to the Brooklyn location's closure.
Tori Shin is probably too expensive to be a Bib Gourmand. Not sure why it was there in the first place.
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Motorino
349 E 12th St, New York, NY 10003 -
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Tocqueville should definitely earn a star or two, as well as 15 East.
My head scratchers
Sushi of Gari
Jewel Bako
Laut
Public
Avoce
Aureole
Gilt
Momofuku Ko-----
15 East
15 East 15th Street, New York, NY 10003Tocqueville
1 East 15th Street, New York, NY 10003A Voce
41 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10010Aureole
135 West 42nd Street, New York, NY 10036Gari
370 Columbus Avenue, New York, NY 10024Jewel Bako
239 E 5th St, New York, NY 10003Public
210 Elizabeth Street, New York, NY 10012Momofuku Ko
163 1st Ave, New York, NY 10003Gilt
455 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10022Laut
15 E 17th St, New York, NY 10003›2 Replies-
re: Ricky
loratliff
Sep 28, 2011 05:38 PM
Laut was the biggest head-scratcher for me too. Public is deserving of its star, in my opinion, but I admittedly haven't eaten at any of the others you've named. I also think that EMP is 2- or 3-star food.
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Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010Public
210 Elizabeth Street, New York, NY 10012Laut
15 E 17th St, New York, NY 10003
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Winterpool
Sep 28, 2011 10:45 AM
There is what Michelin claims, and then there is what empirical evidence suggests may be Michelin's reality...
For instance, very few people believe Michelin awards stars based solely on the cuisine (and I'm reluctant to believe 'value for money' somehow figures into it). Especially in European cities, very few restaurants seem to rate even one star unless they're fairly posh (bistros and brasseries, no matter how good, rarely win stars). New York seems a little different, especially when it comes to one-stars...
You'll find plenty of discussion here and on other sites questioning Michelin's authority and taste (sometimes even their honesty). Michelin is often accused of being Francocentric, bourgeois, and behind-the-times. There's also a widespread belief that Michelin's rating standards in the US do not seem comparable to their European guides.
That said, I'd say Eleven Madison Park deserves a Michelin star on either side of the pond -- and definitely at least two stars, maybe three, by their NY standards.
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Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010 -
From what I gather, Michelin is about food and consistency, and not about service and decor. The one stars are pretty questionable, but I agree with the two and three stars for the most part (though both of those lists could be trimmed of one or two restaurants). I like Daniel so I guess we disagree on that point.
In NYC. Michelin is biased towards high end French and Japanese. Farm to table and New American don't fare as well with the rankings. Otherwise, I think it's pretty reliable for upscale dinners and like the fact that Michelin revises its ratings every year.
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re: peter j
biondanonima
Sep 28, 2011 11:19 AM
I didn't dislike Daniel, but I don't think they came close to EMP (or Del Posto) in the service department, nor do I think they came close to their 3-star peer Per Se (in any department). In my opinion, Per Se is really in a league of its own (although I haven't dined at Masa) and is probably the only restaurant I've ever been too that I would describe as a three-star experience. Personally, I would put Daniel, EMP, Del Posto and probably Jean Georges all in the two-star category - this is based on my limited experience, though. Others who have dined at these places more regularly over the years may have different impressions.
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Per Se
10 Columbus Circle, New York, NY 10019Eleven Madison Park
11 Madison Ave., New York, NY 10010Jean Georges
1 Central Park W, New York, NY 10023Del Posto
85 10th Avenue, New York, NY 10011Masa
10 Columbus Cir, New York, NY 10019 -
re: peter j
How exactly is consistency measured anymore? Is there a minimum to how many meals a critic must eat before an opinion is formed? Or do they just collate a bunch of different reports from different people? Are critics assigned to restaurants?
This was one of the big questions raised regarding the San Pellegrino rankings. With an aim to reporting only on restaurants that were frequented within 18 months, I wonder how many of the voting journalists actually ate at El Bulli?
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linguafood
Sep 28, 2011 10:29 AM
I'm mystified that Convivio has two Michelin stars. I was thoroughly underwhelmed with my meal there. Not to sound like a Euro-snob (even tho I probably do), but that place would not get a single star if it were in Europe.
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Convivio
45 Tudor City Place, New York, NY 10017›5 Replies-
re: linguafood
biondanonima
Sep 28, 2011 10:33 AM
Convivio is now closed, as is Alto, which was previously a two-star. I never dined at Convivio, but I was totally underwhelmed by Alto the one time I ate there. I can't imagine it having one star, let alone two - especially in comparison to the other one and two stars on the list.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/din...
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Alto
11 East 53rd Street, New York, NY 10022-
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re: nmprisons
sgordon
Sep 29, 2011 09:20 AM
Marea is a two-starrer... until you get to the secondi. The antipasti and pastas are top-notch, but after that point in the meal something just seems to fall off. Caveat: haven't been in some time, entrees might have gotten better.
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Marea
240 Central Park South, New York, NY 10019
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