What Are Your Irrefutable Food Rules? [moved from Not About Food]

[PotatoHouse]

What rules do you live by when it comes to food? I have many, but here are the top 3:

1. NEVER FRY BACON WHILE YOU'RE NAKED!-Pretty self-explanatory

2. NEVER wash a coffee mug or cup with soap!-The soap leeches into the cup and taints the coffee

3. ALWAYS take a first date to an Italian restaurant.-There is NO WAY to be fake and pretentious while eating Linguini and Clam Sauce or Mushroom Lobster Ragu with Pappardelle. If she only orders a dinner salad, no second date.

How about you? What food rules do you live by?

[James Cristinian]

No farm raised seafood!!!

[susancinsf]

Why not? what about oysters, abalone or such? Indeed, the only legal abalone for sale in California is farmed raised. Your alternative is catch it yourself. Similarly, farmed oysters account for the vast majority of oyster consumption world-wide (The Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch says that farmed oysters account for as much as 95% of the world's consumption.) Not sure if your goal is to only eat sustainable seafood, to avoid fish farming methods that harm the environment, or taste, but while avoiding farm-raised seafood will often go a long way to meeting one of those stated goals, it definitely isn't irrefutably true that farm-raised seafood is always harmful/non-sustainable/less flavorful than wild.

http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr...

[James Cristinian]

Actually, I do catch my own fish. It includes speckled trout, redfish, flounder, croaker, and on the freshwater side, bass, crappie, catfish, and perch. Plus, I am lucky enough to live on the Gulf coast where wild oysters are plentiful, plus Gulf/Bay shrimp as well. Have you seen some of the articles on farm raised shrimp and fish? There is some pretty nasty stuff out there.

[susancinsf]

I realize that , as I think my post indicates. However, I was wondering why you would make it an irrefutable rule never to eat the farm raised stuff regardless of item of how it is raised. Sounds like the answer is really, "I only eat seafood I catch myself.",(or so I assume since many of gulf oysters one can purchase from commercial operations are indeed farmed, as they are elsewhere in the world. bottom line: if you are buying oysters from someone else, as opposed to picking them yourself, there is a pretty good possibility that they are farmed).

Anyway, I can definitely understand having a rule that "I don't eat it unless I catch it" (although it wouldn't be a practical solution where I live, particularly since I am no longer 'insf'.)

There are definitely some types of farmed fish I would never eat (such as Atlantic salmon for example, and many if not most varieties of farmed shrimp), but I think it does sustainably managed seafood farms, and our oceans, a disservice to leave folks with the impression that ALL farmed seafood is inherently harmful. Sometimes farmed *is* the best option from that standpoint. Like everything else, it depends.

[James Cristinian]

No, the oysters here are not farmed, not in The Texas bays, as they don't grow in the Gulf. I don't know where these Gulf coast oyster farms are that you speak of, as I have fished virtually every bay, where they grow, on the Texas coast and have yet to see an oyster farm. I refuse to eat farmed shrimp when I can get wild for a few bucks more a pound, not to mention the environmental issues, although in my 50 plus years on the planet I have seen the water and air quality improve vastly. Two examples, the once dead Houston Ship Chanel, and Lake Erie, now probably the best Walleye fishery in the USA.

[susancinsf]

I am relying in part on the Seafood Watch statement about the percentage of farmed vs wild-caught oysters, (ie 95% of oysters consumed being farmed); they (edited to add: and I: after all, I think that no rule is irrefutable :-)) could be wrong. That said, there are oyster farms in the gulf, including in Texas. Here is an article about one:

http://www.robbwalsh.com/2010/11/gulf...

The article does imply that 'off bottom' oyster farming in the gulf is a new concept (but I don't know enough about oyster farming to know if that is the only way oysters are farmed.

)

I am with you on farmed shrimp, completely. Wild shrimp is difficult enough to get in my area that I have cut way back on my shrimp consumption.

And I am glad to hear that you think water and air quality is improving in your gulf. I too have over 50 years on this planet, and have been (scuba) diving for about 20 of those years, including every year in the same area of southern CA (off of Catalina Island). Just got back last week from my annual Catalina dive trip in fact. And, I am sad to report, in my area fish populations are greatly decreasing from what they were 20 years ago. Twenty years ago we'd see terminal Sheepshead (a species often fished locally) and schools of rockfish on every dive. Now both are rare. (No sheepshead at all this trip, except for one or two small females). Interestingly, since the spiny lobster population is protected in parts of California, including the area where I did a lot of my dives, which is a lobster conservation ('no-take') zone, we do see as many lobster as ever. (big ones too, taunting us :-)) Being aware of what we eat and conserving can made a difference.

[Veggo]

No troubles, just bubbles...:)
carry on!

[mateo21]

errr... what? You've seen water and air quality improve vastly? Does this specifically relate to your personal haunts, or a blanket statement about the earth/environmental as a whole? Just curious...

[laliz]

I don't eat oysters or abalone. Avoid farm raised.

[drongo]

My wife is a "no farm-raised seafood" person (for reasons focused on health-consciousness) and I'm wary of much wild-caught seafood (for reasons focused on sustainability). So we end up with only a short list of mutually acceptable seafood... the Seafood Watch "Super Green List" (which purports to identify seafood that's both "healthy for people and for the oceans") has been helpful to us.

[BSW6490]

The natural meats and seafood at Whole Food is a great alternative. Farm raised but in a healthy humane manner.

[ferventfoodie]

Don't waste money or calories on mediocre food, but if it promises to be exceptional consider
busting the budget.

We splurged on the truffle degustation at the old Alain Ducasse in Paris. The meal cost more
than our combined air fares to France but it was worth every franc

[ipsedixit]

What Are Your Irrefutable Food Rules?

_______________________________________

That there are no irrefutable rules when it comes to food.

[sunshine842]

And this is the Golden Rule.

[cgarner]

ipsedixit, you took the words out of my mouth!

[iluvcookies]

Always butter, never margarine.

[ipsedixit]

Unless you are vegan.

[iluvcookies]

Which I'm not. So no margarine in my house.

[JudiAU]

What did a vegan ever do that was so bad that they are forced to eat margarine. Nasty stuff. Plenty of other fats out there without resorting to junk.

And don't say Earth Balance blah blah. That stuff is nasty too.

[RUK]

I agree!

[plf515]

What about olive oil?

I agree with no margarine. Foul stuff.

[iluvcookies]

Olive oil is fine... totally different than butter though.

[sueatmo]

Margarine isn't the best choice for most things, but it isn't foul. We use Smart Balance light and frankly it is fine. I like to flavor with butter lightly when I cook certain things, and I like to use at least some butter in the baked goods I occasionally bake. Really, I am taking issue with your use of the word foul. We are allowed to like or dislike whatever we want. But margarine is not foul.

[laliz]

+1

[agoodbite]

I grew up in the 60's/70's when margarine ruled the day. It ain't always great for you, but it's better than butter in some applications. Butter won't make the hot sauce stick to your fried buffalo wings the way margarine will.

[jmckee]

Paul Prudhomme has said in his books that he uses margerine when butter doesn't have enough oil in it to do what he wants. I have found that, in that case, I use oil and flavor it with a bit of butter at the end.

[laliz]

I usually use a combo of butter/oil when sauteeing, but never margarine.

And no margarine for flavoring things or on bread.

[CTownFeedR]

+1. Magarine is the best choice for buffalo wings.

[iluvcookies]

Ah... see, since I don't make buffalo wings, this isn't a problem for me :)

[missdipsy]

Absolutely - I haven't bought margarine in years! Haven't found any foods where oil or butter won't sub for margarine perfectly well (although I don't cook buffalo wings!).

[monavano]

NO CHEESE ON SEAFOOD!
Thank you,
Scott Conant

[sunshine842]

well if you're not gonna eat it, would you push it over here so I can?

Anybody wanna share?

[Veggo]

My baked salmon with mayonnaise, dill, and coarse romano would really get slammed here. I'll share!

[FoodFuser]

Dang, I'll take some of that, as long as you allow me some really coarse pepper.

[Rubee]

And I'll take monavano's Oysters Rockefeller and Lobster Thermidor, or maybe the classic French Coquilles St. Jacques or Greek Shrimp Saganaki. And I'd be more than happy to share.

[pj26]

And a classic fish pie topped with buttery mashed potatoes and cheddar? I'll share that with you too!

[laliz]

I agree with no cheese on seafood

[jmckee]

There's a fresh tuna and pasta dish in Lynne Kasper's "The Italian Country Table" that uses fresh mozzarella. It's a great exception to this rule.

[PaulF]

I don't eat cheese on anything anymore, but back when I did, I must say I did enjoy a nice tuna melt every once in a while.

To each their own, right?

[lilgi]

For a while all I ate was a tuna melt on rye for lunch. I tend to do that with food sometimes till I'm done with it :P

[sueatmo]

I like a nice tuna melt to this day.

[FoodFuser]

To grapple with tuna and mayo and cheese and the softness of bread be now broiling... Delightful the meld that we call "tuna melt." Delightful indeed.

[scubadoo97]

Me too. I understand where seafood and cheese my clash and one will over power the other at times. I think some people adopt these rules after hearing it so many times by so called food expects like Scott Conant to be gospel. It's really an Italian rule. Also depends on the cheese and seafood. Your basic tuna melt uses very mild cheese and the tuna could use some toning down. We're not talking fresh tuna cooked rare here.

[jbsiegel]

Oh yum...haven't thought of tuna melts in a while. As a child, my mom would make an English muffin, split, tuna salad (Miracle Whip & tuna ONLY - nothing else) and a slice of American cheese. Then - under the broiler until nice and toasty... LOVE those - time to make them again...

[laliz]

I know we don't yuk somebody's yum here, but just the thought of tuna, (the dreaded) MW, and american cheese gives me the skeeveys.

Glad that is a great memory for you. Mine would be my first tuna sandwich made with toasted bread, real mayo, and lettuce and sliced tomato. who knew???? I'd grown up on squishy white bread, tuna, and MW sandwiches. needless to say, I dreaded tuna sandwiches.

[jbsiegel]

Then you're REALLY going to hate the other tuna/American Cheese option...an omelette...another total yum for me (but leave out the MW - just eggs, tuna and that good old American Cheese!)

[laliz]

the egg/cheese would be fine; no MW is a huge bonus; just say no to hot tuna

[phantomdoc]

Shrimp with garlic and feta cheese is good.

[jillcooks]

AMEN!

[budlit]

+ 1 no cheese on seafood

[susancinsf]

Can you give me your evidence for #2? Is that true regardless of the material of which the mug is made? Have to admit, I am a bit skeptical that this is always the case....

Although I haven't been on a first date in years, I do like #3. Hubby took me to a great Italian restaurant on our first date, and it was uphill from there. Of course, it could be that the date who orders a salad is simply gluten intolerant, so even that shouldn't be a hard and fast rule. But then there is my friend who likes to take dates for ice cream on a first date; he claims he can tell whether the relationship is likely to go anywhere based on whether his date orders ice cream in a cone (a yes) or insists on a cup and spoon (a definite turn off for him. Think about it :-))

[iluvcookies]

I don't understand the no soap in the mug either. Wouldn't that then stand for ANY dish or cup?

[PotatoHouse]

A little background, I NEVER drank coffee before I became a truck driver. 18 years later, I am now a total coffee hound. The no soap thing I always thought was a coffee hound thing, but maybe it's a truck driver thing. I never said it was factual, it's just what I have always been told.

[sunshine842]

there are hardcore wine enthusiasts who won't wash their wine glasses with soap, either...

but if they're rinsed well, no, the soap won't really infuse into a hard-glazed mug, any more than it will into a piece of glass.

[DavidA06488]

I learned in my adolescent days working in a restaurant to clean coffee mugs with a paste of baking soda. It cleans the residue that builds up, without leaving any off-taste. Works great with teacups as well.

[jvanderh]

Seconded- works like magic, even with ancient coffee stains.

[logburner]

As a retired Navy chief, you wash my coffee cup, you get thrown overboard.

[Jay F]

No raw onions.
No tofu or its by-products.
No eggs where you can see yolk or white.
No cooked cabbage.

[piccola]

Why no tofu?

[Jay F]

Why does anyone put anything on a list with the word "no" in front of it? My motivation is identical.

[piccola]

Some are based on ethics, some on health, some on superstition, some on aversion to unfamiliar foods, some on traumatic childhood experience, etc. There are tonnes of reasons why you could avoid tofu -- I'm just curious as to which it is.

[EWSflash]

Almost absolutely, JayF

[sisterfunkhaus]

Yes, why? A nicely browned cubed tofu adds a lot to a good stir-fry, fried rice or Asian style soup. And fermented soy does not have soy estrogen issues.

[Jay F]

Again, the thread title is "What Are Your Irrefutable Food Rules?" One of mine is "no tofu."

Yet you try to refute it. Surely you don't think "fermented soy" and "soy estrogen issues" mean anything to me.

[piccola]

I don't think anyone is trying to deny you your rule -- just to understand the rationale behind it. I mean, isn't that the whole reason behind this thread?

[sunshine842]

How about "because I don't like it"?

If tofu shows up on my plate I'll eat enough to be polite, but I'd have to be pretty darned hungry and a whole lot desperate before I ever put it on my plate on purpose.

No health reasons, no geopolitico-econo-social reasons -- I can't stand the stuff.

[piccola]

That's a perfectly valid reason. That's honestly all I was asking -- whether it was purely because of taste or some other reason.

[invinotheresverde]

I love all those things.

[Jay F]

Then you should use them to start a list of things you love. Don't "yum" my "yuck."

[RUNNERFEMME]

Me too!

[nikkib99]

LOL. No VISIBLE cooked onions. Cooked onions creep me out.

[sueatmo]

If you are heating up a frypan or skillet, start out on MED heat.

If you are using flour, tomato sauce, or are frying, put an apron on before proceeding.

Always read the recipe through before launching out.

There are no home made pies at restaurants.

[ospreycove]

NEVER PLAY WITH FOOD! RESPECT IT!!!!

[sunshine842]

Bwaaahaaahaa.....

of course...nobody here ever plays with their food.

[jmckee]

Unless they've eaten all their toys.

[pj26]

With you on the recipe reading - so many times I have been caught out by the 'and now put in the fridge to marinate for 24 hours' about an hour before my guests arrive.

[troublegirl843]

I am glad I'm not the only one who has done this. Trust me though - you only make this mistake once! lol...
+1 on read the recipe all the way through before launching it

[Wintergoblin]

I have skipped reading the directions several times, only to find out something is to marinate for an hour or more. I just add the ingredients, and keep going, Nobody has ever complained. It might not turn out exactly like it's suppose to, but the other people don't know how it's suppose to turn out. LOL!

[Veggo]

no crab delight

[James Cristinian]

Gulf of Mexico and all the bays blue crabs, yumm!!!

[Veggo]

You are a seafood purist, cheers!

[James Cristinian]

Indeed Veggo, indeed, as are you, I know.

[pikawicca]

What is crab delight?

[weewah]

Imitation crab meat ಠ_ಠ

[pikawicca]

Thank you.

[EWSflash]

I always knew it was surimi when I saw it announced as "krab". And I dont' have a problem with it, either. It's seafood, and it tastes like crab. And it's cheaper and not such a ptomaine risk in landlocked states like mine. It depends on how much they're charging for it, and whether they're being up front.

[jmckee]

I kind of like it too. And it's a great low-cost item to use when one is teaching oneself to make sushi rolls. And by one I mean me.

[foiegras]

I must say, I am suspicious of any dish with 'delight' in its name.

1) No veal.
2) Certain things that had a place in my mother's kitchen--dried milk, margarine, wheatgerm, bran, tofu--aren't allowed in mine.
3) Beans must be cooked from scratch. No cans.
4) Recipes that call for cans of beans are passed over as illegitimate.
5) Pasta should be imported from Italy.
6) Basil is sourced from the front porch only--Queen of Siam, African Blue, Purple Ruffle, or ... 'American volunteer'.
7) Seafood means shellfish.
8) Your child may be selling prepared cookie dough, but I am not buying. Cookie dough is made from scratch at my house.
9) No HFCS.
And probably many more ...

[EWSflash]

Here's an echo thing-
1) Ditto 1,3,4,6,8,9

[mateo21]

RE: #7) what about octopus and squid? Not to mention all of the other sea creatures that are edible (which I'm assuming you call.. "fish"?)! Is this because the only sea derived critters you eat are shellfish?

[logburner]

No 10 No beans in my chili. Ever!

[vafarmwife]

No sugar in cornbread.
Fresh brown eggs
Angus beef, preferably that which we have raised ourselves

[agoodbite]

Yes, NEVER sugar in cornbread. Only bake it in an iron skillet and use much more bacon grease than is good for you. Also butter it liberally before eating.

[arashall]

+1 on the no sugar in cornbread!

[KaimukiMan]

can't argue about the cornbread, i don't like eggs so don't care about number two, but my condo board has serious issues with number 3.

[DavidA06488]

That's only because they graze on the flowerbeds.

[cachinnator]

Or the HOA has had too many bovine defenestration complaints.

[Cachetes]

Never yuck somebody's yum.

[plf515]

I like this one a lot!

[Cachetes]

I have very few food etiquette rules, but that one is important to me. I don't know why, but I always notice when someone does this, and it always bugs me!

[FullPalate]

bug me too, it's poor manners to rain on someone's parade :P

[EWSflash]

+1

[TexSquared]

If the moderators on CH actually enforced that as a rule, they'd be deleting 3/4 of the posts...

[plf515]

I like a lot of foods that many/most Americans find yucky. Eel, offal, pretty much all sushi/sashimi (as long as it's high quality), octopus, squid.... If I like a nice bowl of stewed tripe, I don't need someone else saying "ewwww....."

[logburner]

Yeah, don't dis my menudo!

[DavidA06488]

Love it, too.

[Jay F]

Some "yums" are so yuckable, though.

[Cachetes]

Oh I agree, but tasty is in the mouth of the beholder.

[EWSflash]

+1

[piccola]

Agreed, though I'll allow good-natured teasing.

[Nightsinge]

"Never yuck somebody's yum."

Amen.

[jvanderh]

I don't mind this too much. I kind of assume that we all share a passion for food. It seems like it's mostly done sort of gently/teasingly, with understanding that our food preferences are sort of arbitrary and not indicative of serious character flaws. (I'm certain my ancestors lived in a place with poisonous relatives of blue cheese, dill, and raw onions. Shudder).

[tzurriz]

You have to eat three bites before you can decide if you like it or not.

[sunshine842]

French andouille would be an exception to that one, for me. It didn't even take the first bite for me to make that decision.

[plf515]

Oh, not always. One tiny bit of bagna cauda and I knew it was great (just as a for instance)

[Heatherb]

1) Don't order "Asian" dishes at a diner. Just. Don't. Do. It.

2) Funnel cake should only be eaten at carnivals or on boardwalks, and it doesn't need anything more than powdered sugar.

3) Don't trust people who don't like garlic. (LOL - just a joke. Kinda.)

[EWSflash]

LOL- I love the garlic thing.

[Nightsinge]

Worst girlfriend I ever had hated garlic. I should have known...

[plf515]

There are two types of food: Food that can be improved by adding garlic and food that can be improved by adding whipped cream. (Not really, but it's close!)

[sunshine842]

LOL....you definitely have a point!

[Heatherb]

That's a definite counter argument to my friend's statement that "Everything's better with bacon." Thanks!

[foiegras]

I don't trust people who don't like chocolate!

[lilgi]

Before I married I was the only one in my family that ate chocolate; I should have sent them all away :P

[plf515]

If something is very caloric or otherwise unhealthy, it has to taste really good

[TexSquared]

1. No stupid sushi rolls from hell (California, spider, dragon, Philly....)

2. No junk Chinese food passed off as something else (Kelly's Cajun Grill/Bourbon St. Grill, Caribbean Queen, etc)

3. No phony Southern food (mussels, calamari, Italian dishes given Cajun names, etc -- you get a lot of this crap in Toronto).

[EWSflash]

No sushi with cream cheese

[iluvcookies]

Yeah... what is that about?

Now I love cream cheese with Lox, but that isn't sushi.

[TexSquared]

Exactly. Lox and cream cheese on a bagel, fine. Lox and cream cheese in a sushi roll, ugh.... (and let the even more clueless dunk that in Yoda Mud Bath and top it with pickled ginger before eating!!!)

[EWSflash]

The weird thing is- a neighbor worked for a manufacturer that made calibrating computers, and traveled a lot. He had to take a big group of Japanese geeks out to dinner a few times, and they really liked Saga Sushi, which for some reason has a LOT of cream cheese in their sushi. In fact, it's hard to get away from it, but the sushi was otherwise really good. But the Japanese guys liked Saga Sushi for the cream cheese- a clear divergence from what they were used to. I'm not saying it's right- not judging at all, just saying we all like something different sometimes

[TexSquared]

Yes, it goes both ways. I have seen the opposite of what you described -- I was in downtown Pasadena, CA one evening and this group of Japanese tourists was standing in front of some sushi place laughing uncontrollably, pointing at it and taking photos of it. (it was night, and the camera flashes were going off) We don't understand Japanese but we figure they must have been laughing at the stupid Chinese/Korean rolls from hell that have become standard across North America...

[Tripeler]

I think those rolls are designed to appeal to caucasians. Generally I detest them, and refer to them collectively as Monster Truck Rolls. It could be they spotted a roll with seven different kinds of raw fish in it (called the Rainbow Roll, I believe) that Japanese people find hard to fathom. Could be they have been created by Chinese or Korean chefs, but no doubt they are intended for idiot customers who don't really like raw fish in the first place.

[KaimukiMan]

monster truck roll, i LOVE it!

[TexSquared]

Love it too. A lot less wordy than "stupid rolls from hell"! Do I have your permission to use it in my future posts? :-)

I have seen an AYCE place around here that makes their rolls almost the size of hockey pucks. Monster Truck Rolls describes them perfectly!

[josephnl]

I love raw fish...have sushi and/or sashimi at least once a week at a very upscale and authentic Japanese restaurant owned by a ex Nobu chef. Tripeler, am I really an idiot just because I'll occasionally order and yes even enjoy a spicy tuna roll or perhaps, God forbid, a rainbow roll?

[drongo]

One of my irrefutable rules is that if a recipe has "Cream Of X Soup" as an ingredient I move on to something else...

[al b. darned]

Wow! Me, too.

[pine time]

A friend once shared her secret recipes with me. Danged if 90% didn't begain with Cream of Schlep something. I politely declined to eat at her house.

[EWSflash]

You should check out the many, many, thousands of church cookbooks that heavily utilize cream of ____ soup- but it does have its uses, rarely but sometimes.

[plf515]

That reminds me of Calvin Trillin's tummy trilogy!

[missdipsy]

YES! This is one of my main gripes as a Brit who gets a lot of recipes off the internet (which is heavily dominated by Americans) - what is it with American cooks and ingredients like "cream of x soup"?! Not that the UK is immune to that kind of thing, but the difference seems to be that people in the US who consider themselves to be proper home cooks will happily use those ingredients, whereas here it's mostly people who would fully admit to being lazy in the kitchen!

[foiegras]

If I did that I wouldn't be able to make my grandmother's chicken ;) And it's delicious. But yes, it's typically not a good sign ...

[hungryjoanne]

There are four food groups:
coffee, chocolate, cheese & deep-fried
In my ideal, utopian, no health-concern world, I'd indulge from each of these groups every day!
(A girl can dream, can't she?!?!)

[Peg]

mmmmm - deep fried cheeeeese....

[Isolda]

Mine are sugar, fat, caffeine, and alcohol.

[Cactus Wren]

No no no. According to Sir Terry Pratchett, the four major food groups are salt, sugar, grease, and burnt crunchy bits.

[DavidA06488]

How about all of the above? Coffee, chocolate, pork, cheese, ice cream, "crunchy bits" (I like that!), wine, they do make a good start on diet must-includes in my irrefutable food rules.

[mattstolz]

is it weird that i saw "coffee, chocolate, pork, cheese, and ice cream" and immediately thought that it was time to get out my ice cream machine and start experimenting?

[DavidA06488]

Not at all. BTW I have a White Mountain 6-qt rock salt and ice electric churn. But, I feel guilty for not making any this summer. Right now it's about 45 outside and not conducive to making any (in CT). Can't do it inside d2 the brine run-off. Don't like the (relatively) small ice cream machines - can't make enough to fix my ice-cream "jones". All or nothing!

[mattstolz]

if i wasnt a poor grad student, i would have something much larger than the cuisinart i currently use, dont worry! and here in SoFl its still just warm enough to justify ice cream every day (shh!). but, my suggestion for you (from one ice cream lover to another) is: put that bad boy in the sink or the bathtub and churn away!

[DavidA06488]

Matt,
The machine I use is not as expensive as a Cuisinart. I envy your Florida weather as I head into NEngland winter, especially as an excuse to make ice cream. Can't put mine in the tub or sink, if I want to have any pipes left uncorroded. I have to consider my condo neighbors. I have considered going ahead anyway, but I'll wait for a day when it gets above 50, then making it.

[Beau711]

No High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS)

No reheated stale coffee. If it's been sitting for over 15 minutes, I won't drink it.

No pizza that's not fresh out of the often. No reheated pizza. No fake cheese.

No Irish Coffee with creme de menthe on top.

No smashed up crumbled apple pie gushing out of its crust.. A waiter tried to serve this to me once and I sent it back, He said "it's fresh." I said "it looks like someone sat on it." I got a nicer slice. Why can't stuff like this be simple?

No birthday cakes with buttercream. To me, It tastes like greasy lard.

[mcel215]

Wow, each one read like it was written by me.... except the apple pie. I don't order pies at a restaurant.

[sunshine842]

unless you're out in the countryside at some dive-y looking little diner with a goofy name like Chat 'n' Chew or Kathie's Kitchen or the Coffee Cup. Then the pies are probably pretty good.

The Coffee Cup is long gone from its place on the corner of US 41 in a tiny little town in Florida -- but man, I would have put those pies up against anything from anybody's kitchen...because they WERE from somebody's kitchen...the lady who baked them was well past retirement age, and handmade all the crusts every day. It was sinfully cheap -- $2 for a slice of strawberry pie made with whole strawberries from (literally) a mile down the road, then glazed with homemade glaze and buried in real whipped cream...

[PotatoHouse]

Strawberry pie....wasn't that the pie at the end of Stephen King's Thinner?? (insert eerie music here)

[ospreycove]

Do you mean...like Wheeler's Cafe in Arcadia, really, really good pies!!

[PotatoHouse]

There is also Heaven On Earth, exit 86 on I-5 in Oregon. EVERYTHING is homemade, from the meatloaf to the Apple Butter to the 5 pound Cinnamon Rolls (and those are the small ones!) to the WONDERFUL pies!

[pj26]

I do wish we those kind of places along the motorways in the UK - they sound wonderful!

[sunshine842]

Haven't been to that one, Osprey - -the Coffee Cup used to stand at the corner of US41 and Shellpoint Road in Ruskin -- they made a mean cheeseburger, too. Pity -- the owner was ready to retire at the same time that the building was ready to fall down around his ears, so he just closed it up and knocked it down. It had been there for 75 years.

A daughter of one of the original employees now makes Pam's Pies with the original recipes -- you can find them at some of the independent food purveyors around.

The Giant's Camp in Gibsonton is another victim of age and decay...they had the best biscuits on the planet.

The Chat 'n' Chew and Kathie's Kitchen that I mentioned were both in Jacksonville the last time I was there...both are old-fashioned "meat 'n' 3" with handmade biscuits and homemade pies.

[Isolda]

Wow, if I weren't happily married and probably 20 years older than you, I'd date you.

[KWagle]

No pizza that's cooked at less than 729dF.

[ricepad]

That's pretty freakin' hot!

[mattstolz]

thats not nearly as hot as i WISH my oven got for making pizzas!

[KWagle]

It's the minimum that I find makes a passable pie. I find 800 is about right. You might be able to get your oven that hot by dividing it with a foil covered rack. Or, if it's an old oven, run the broiler for a few hours. If those tricks don't work, put a resistor and a switch in parallel with the thermostat, calibrate it and flip the switch when you want to go from paranoid wimps' oven to real cook's oven.

[mattstolz]

im just going to try not to burn down my apartment for another few years until i can purchase a house and build a woodburning oven in the backyard....

but until then i might try to dividing the oven thing

[KWagle]

I've heard many time that wood doesn't get hot enough for pizza. The best traditional pizza shops use coal. And, if your oven is a self clean oven, it's designed to contain more heat than you need for pizza. It's an OVEN, not a fire in a trash can. The risk of starting a fire is basically nonexistent.

(I'm quite amused when people are shocked that I turn on the oven and head to the grocery store. Apparently these people think ovens behave themselves for literally thousands of hours while I'm home, but they're just waiting until I leave to explode.)

[mattstolz]

<Apparently these people think ovens behave themselves for literally thousands of hours while I'm home, but they're just waiting until I leave to explode>

this always makes me laugh too!

and i havent done a ton of research into pizza/brick ovens yet since thats still a few years away, but i know the design does a lot for the temp as well

[KWagle]

True enough. You might buy an IR thermometer and check the temperature of commercial wood ovens. I've checked only one (most places I go use coal) and it was well under 700 (but the roof was hotter, which helps.) Or you could just time the pie and see how long they cook it. 2 minutes is optimal, 3 acceptable, I personally won't cook a pie past 5 minutes because I'd rather have an undercooked top than a tough crust.

[PaulF]

I assume you don't make English Muffin pizza in the toaster oven?

[mattstolz]

when you divide it with a foil rack, do you just take one of the normal racks from the oven and wrap it?? then do you turn your oven to full broil or go with a normal bake temp? im trying this very soon and just wanna be sure!

[KWagle]

Exactly. This is best done with two stones, one on the lowest rack position of the oven, one on a rack which you then cover with foil and put in the middle of the oven, as low as you can without making it too difficult to slide the pie from the peel onto the stone.

I don't know if this works with an electric oven. And, if you have a broiler below the oven which doesn't cycle on and off (meaning, an old one) but just runs until you turn it off, use that setting. That will get the oven hot enough after several hours without any division. Otherwise, set it at the highest temperature you can. Some ovens offer calibration that can move the target temperature by a few degrees, if you know how to do that, so 550 becomes say 585 in practice.

(BTW, IR thermometers that can read up to 950dF are $40 on Amazon. Get one if you don't already have one.) As for safety, our hacked propane oven has been run for 14 hour stretches without ever getting above 105dF on the outside, but it's a self-cleaning oven so it has to be safe in a typical crappy home installation at even higher temperatures.

(In theory if you have a top broiler that doesn't cycle, you could use that to heat a stone and you'd probably get better results, but I haven't been able to try that.)

[eclecticsynergy]

Beau711 says "No reheated stale coffee. If it's been sitting for over 15 minutes, I won't drink it."

I love the exchange near the end of No Country For Old Men where world-weary Texas lawman Tommy Lee Jones asks his dad, "How old is this coffee?" and the answer is, "I usually make a fresh pot... every week or so." The father played well by Barry Corbin- I can still picture him as Maurice Minnefield from Northern Exposure...

I'm with others on a few firm rules, though I also feel most are not truly irrefutable- I'm a bit too irreputable for that, heh heh...

Joan Gussow: "As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists."
Butter or olive oil, yes. Margarine, no.
(great line from Moon Over Parador: "Totalitarianism, no! Authoritarianism, si!")

No naked frying.

No such thing as too much garlic. Except maybe when making ice cream.

Never trust a thin chef.

And finally, avoid excessive moderation.

~~~

Favorite quote from Orson Welles:
"My doctor advised me to stop ordering intimate dinners for four unless there were three other people."

[theferlyone]

I'll have to disagree with you on the thin chef part. I'm widely regarded as the best cook in my circle of friends, and I wear a 00. Knowing how to eat right and splurge occasionally doesn't preclude me from having any talent in the kitchen.

[linguafood]

not sure how being a 00 has anything to do with "eating right and splurging occasionally".

[theferlyone]

Just illustrating the point that waistlines and culinary skills aren't necessarily related. And I don't stay this thin because of magic, lipo, or even a personal trainer. Being a good cook doesn't mean only cooking things that are terrible for you...sure, I make a mean blackened shrimp alfredo, but I don't eat like that every night. I also make a pine nut-encrusted seared tuna steak with wilted spinach and gorgonzola that I would put up against any seared tuna dish from any restaurant in my area...absolutely delicious, and much healthier.

[Isolda]

And ditto for me. Most fat people I know are indiscrimate cooks and eaters.

[Cachetes]

So are most of the thin people I know.

[foiegras]

I know a number of large foodies. Have you noticed the size of many well-known chefs? This smacks of flat-out prejudice to me.

[PotatoHouse]

I thought the same thing. It is VERY rare that I say this, but I find that post offensive.

[piccola]

I don't think there's any correlation between body size and cooking ability or taste. In either direction.

[foiegras]

I'm a member of a foodie group with hundreds of members, and I can't think of one who wears a size zero. We cover the spectrum, but definitely tilt in the other direction. I have to believe it's easier to be quite thin if you really don't care about food. (Genes are also key.) I think there may be correlations among these factors, but there's certainly nothing absolutely preventing any combination of them ...

[applgrl]

No "light" or "lite" anything, nuh-uh, no way, never. Real Food, but less of it.

[TexSquared]

Oh yes, no fake milk (soy, almond, rice, etc) or byproducts thereof (cashew cheese...)

No fake meat either (tofurkey, veggie burgers, etc)

I have yet to see meat made to look like vegetables...

[missdipsy]

I've never seen a sausage or burger shaped animal running around...

[TheHuntress]

You should see my JRT X Dachshund...looks remarkably like a sausage :D

[magiesmom]

yes, yes, yes.

[sisterfunkhaus]

I agree with no light anything for the most part because you can make real food with huge portions that is low in calories with nothing light invovled. I make veggie heavy dishes (with in season veggies) with less pasta, rice, or quinoa that is standard and use naturally lower fat cheeses (harder cheese tend to have less fat and more flavor so you can use less.) I also use an olive oil sprayer so that when I roast or pan fry veggies, I can use a good quality oil without dousing things. I also eat hearty whole grain breads that are higher in protein and fiber, which helps fill you up (when I eat bread, which I don't eat a lot of.) I also tend to make a lot of hearty soups and stews, and again, put in extra veggies, use lean meat, and maybe throw in a small amount of pasta or barley.You can have a massive bowl of that for 300 calories or less. I tend to use 2% Greek yogurt (which isn't fake or weird) with maybe 2 tbsp. full-fat mayo and some buttermilk for my homemade dressings and they taste fabulous. Most of them are 50 calories for 1/4 of a cup.

Real food does not have to be high calorie or unhealthy.

[mattstolz]

where did you get your olive oil sprayer, and what brand is it? my mom has one and she hates it. says it doesnt work well. when i used it, i had to agree with her.

[scubadoo97]

Here's a trick. Add a little grain alcohol to the oil. It keeps the sprayer from clogging. Doesn't take much.

[laliz]

I got mine from Pampered Chef, works great

[weewah]

In the South here, and I never ever EVER put sugar in cornbread.
I like corn muffins -yes they're delicious!- and I once had a birthday cake made from a sweet cornbread recipe. But cornbread to people I know is a base to pour soupy foods on, like ham & beans, greens and pot liquor, chili and many other traditional recipes. Nothing spoils a savory meal like ladling it over a piece of sugar filled cornbread. A retaurant did this too me once and it was a nasty mouthfull of food. I never fail to ask a server about the cornbread now, and I did not eat or pay for that meal.

Cornbread was the only bread easily available (cheap to make) to most people in my region (rural Ozarks) for everyday eating. Wheat flour was too costly to use every day, and was for Sundays and holidays when women would bake "lightbread".
Cornbread soaks up the juices so you get every bit of the nutrients, and it fills in any hollow corners occasioned by scanty rations. Sugar not only clashes with the flavor of those authentic southern dishes, but is innacurate to our traditions - as the people in this culture didn't sweeten with it - it too cost too much. Sorghum or honey was used for daily sweetening.

People must've been doing better for themselves up north!

[pine time]

Haven't heard "light bread" in years--just how my Dad described white yeast bread. Also made me think of my southern favorite: spoon bread. Sooooo good with a hearty dollop of fresh made butter. While I didn't/don't eat cornbread made with sugar, I still like beaten biscuits with a good spoonful of Steen's syrup.

[arashall]

Any BBQ joint worth the time serves light bread on the side.

[sisterfunkhaus]

I am from Texas and I like sweet cornbread and savory. For me, it depends on what it is served with. Sweet cornbread with chili or beans is gross, but with a vegetable soup or beef stew, which both have sweet undertones, it is perfect.

[scubadoo97]

I like them both. I don't have a lot of hard fast rules like I only like something one way. Life's too short. If it taste good that's all that counts.

[mateo21]

I grew up in New England... cornbread is sweet (most often served muffin style...). My rule is this: if your cornbread is too sweet, your chili isn't spicy enough.

[laliz]

I can completely understand your analogy about sugar in cornbread ~~ even though I do not eat corn bread of any type. I feel exactly the way you described about (the dreaded) Miracle Whip. Sweet just does not belong where mayonnaise is used. gives me the shivers when I bite into tuna salad and taste icky sweet MW.

[Tripeler]

Never eat anything bigger than your head.

[TheHuntress]

I think this is my favourite rule.

[magiesmom]

Miss Piggy said "never eat more than you can lift"
I am very scrupulous about following that rule.

[DavidA06488]

+1

[lilgi]

oh that woman! she should have her own column :D

[almond tree]

If I don't like it, I don't have to eat it. Period.

[Rick]

My favorite rule too, if it's not worth the calories, not as good as you though it'd be, there's no need to eat it! Just last night we got ice cream from a place that is usually great, well it was pretty mediocre last night, unfortunately most of the ice cream went in the garbage. Some may think that's awful, but why waste all those calories on ice cream that's not hitting the spot and isn't that good?

[foiegras]

I thought of your post while tossing out a nasty brownie today ;)

[Nightsinge]

If the word "buffet" appears immediately following the word "Chinese" or "seafood," RUN.

[Tripeler]

But not after the word Bernard.

[janetofreno]

I must admit I have very few.....but I do have restaurant rules:

If I'm anywhere on the west coast outside of major cities, and unsure where to eat, I look for a locally-owned Mexican place. That rule has served me well over the years.

No fast food unless its the only option and I'm very, very hungry...

I do look to see how busy a place is and use that as a judge if unsure as well...I figure if nothing else the bigger places will have more turnover and therefore fresher food....

[blue room]

Don't waste it.

[lemons]

Never eat at a restaurant where the pepper mill is bigger than your date.

[mateo21]

Has this ever happened to you?

[lemons]

No, but DH swears it happened to him years ago.

[mateo21]

hahaha... I must seek this place out!

[kimmer1850]

How about "Never go on a date with anyone smaller than a pepper mill?"

[occula]

I go with

1. Food goes in the refrigerator. (explanation: I refrigerate a number of things other people store at room temperature, like peanut butter, baked goods, etc.)

2. You can fix it if you make the coffee too strong. You can't fix coffee made too weak.

3. Pizza: No fish, no fruit.

4. Organs are not food meat. Muscle is food meat. No guts, no brains, no eyes, no hearts, no livers, no kidneys, no offal.

Many disagree, and I'm sorry if I'm yucking your yums. :-)

[sunshine842]

No offense taken...but we'll both be happier if I never invite you over for dinner.

[occula]

I'm enjoying imagining an unrefrigerated meal of weak coffee with anchovy and liver pizza. :-D

[sunshine842]

then your imagination would be seriously flawed (although I know you're poking fun with your comment).... I don't drink weak coffee, but that's not to say that it's never appeared in my kitchen (my dad drinks dirty water, I swear) - or that I agree that it can never be too strong.

I don't refrigerate eggs ever...nor butter in the winter...nor most fruits and veggies, especially in the winter (and never, ever tomatoes)...not EVER bread or baked goods (unless it's a chocolate ganache or something else that will melt all over everything)

I love seafood pizza, and I even make a dessert pizza with sugar-cookie dough that has nothng BUT fruit on it.

Liver (foie gras, anyone?), confit of duck gizzards, and stew made with pork or beef cheeks are some of the favorites on our table.

[PotatoHouse]

[Quote] I don't drink weak coffee, but that's not to say that it's never appeared in my kitchen (my dad drinks dirty water, I swear) [/Quote]

Down home (I'm a Southern Boy) we call it Snuff water. You get a cup of lukewarm water and mix in a pinch of snuff to get the right color and call it coffee.

[onceadaylily]

"(my dad drinks dirty water, I swear)"

The first time I served my boyfriend coffee at my mother's house, he glanced in the cup and, slightly puzzled, asked, "Tea?" My mom came into the room and gave me a good smack on my arm for laughing so hard, after I explained why I was laughing.

[occula]

I was indeed poking fun. And again, I don't mean to yuck anyone's yum, or vice versa.

My point with the coffee really was to err on the side of strength when making it because, once it's been prepared, nothing will make it stronger (well, okay, I guess you could add instant coffee if you kept that on hand), but if you accidentally make it too strong, at least you can add a bit of water and weakify it. In my house, coffee that's too weak is just bad coffee or has to be discarded, but coffee that's too strong is salvageable.

I have tasted liver. I managed to swallow the bite, but I admit it is definitely on my "never again" list. I'm glad the liver or cheeks that my steak used to walk around with isn't going to waste, though. To each her own!

That might be the real Irrefutable Food Rule! To each her own.

[buttertart]

It's certainly mine...you hit the nail on the head, occula.

[betsydiver]

chopped chicken livers ....mmmm I actually learned that the difference between calves' liver and beef liver is amazing this at one of those FLA buffets... i think morrison's calves' is much more tender, less mineraly

[Heatherb]

These are rules I can live by.

[RGC1982]

No anchovies? Now that's a pizza topping!

[CanadaGirl]

You are SO right on the coffee. A little water from the kettle can adjust what I consider to be "proper" strength coffee to anyone's taste. Everyone wins :)

[DavidA06488]

I disagree with each of the other three rules you cite, but am totally in agreement with your coffee rule. I once spent a week visiting with folks who drank coffee all day long. I thought I was among my kind of people, until I had my first cup of their coffeee. They drank coffee all day to get enough caffeine to equal what I get in my first two cups of the morning. They thought I was a drug addict when I fixed coffee that didn't look like weak tea or taste like dirty dishwater. As the Romans said "de gustibus, non disputandum" i.e., roughly, to each his own, or there's no accounting for why others like what they do ;-)

[linguafood]

It's "De gustibus non est disputandum", and it means you can't argue about taste.

Which, I think, 99% of 'hounds would disagree with '-)

[DavidA06488]

That's the long version. As a 'hound, I prefer to use my own interpretation, even if my old Latin teacher would cringe. Besides, isn't it what you say when you give up in despair at trying to understand why the heck some people like or dislike certain foods?

[ricepad]

Soy sauce does not go directly onto plain white rice.

[sunshine842]

or brown sugar...my elementary school always put out huge bowls of brown sugar whenever they served white rice. Ugh.

[pikawicca]

What??? Where on earth did you go to school? This seems utterly bizarre to me.

[Heatherb]

Seconding that. I'm kind of gagging as I do...

[sunshine842]

northern Indiana, and I've never seen it anywhere else, even in Indiana. Talked to someone in my class a few weeks ago who now teaches there, and they STILL serve brown sugar (in little paper cups for hygiene, now)

Weird.

[Heatherb]

I'm strangely fascinated by this...

[pine time]

As a kid, we ate white rice with white sugar and butter. I now gag thinking of that, too.

[sisterfunkhaus]

My daughter loves rice with butter and white sugar.

[scubadoo97]

My mom would give us that when we were little. She was always trying to fatten us up.

[sunshine842]

I tried it one time -- hey, all the other kids were doing it! -- and even my 8-year-old Midwest self who'd never been out of her home state thought it was pretty awful.

[jmcarthur8]

sunshine, I raised my sons in Michigan City, Indiana. I don't remember hearing them mention this in grammar school. Now I'm curious - I will have to ask them if they saw it. They are both in their early 20's now, so maybe it wasn't done anymore by then..?

[sunshine842]

This was in the northeast part of the state -- and as I mentioned, a schoolmate who's now teaching there says they STILL do it at that school. (and I'm old enough to have kids in their 20s...)

I've never seen it anywhere else, and I've eaten rice in a LOT of places.

[jennymoon]

Ooh! Me. Elementary school in a Minneapolis suburb. White rice (pre-buttered) was served with brown sugar and cinnamon. And usually alongside gloopy chow mein. Oh, Minnesota. This was in the early nineties.

[eclecticsynergy]

Thinking about this a bit, I can't say why it is but that's how I feel:
White rice with sugar- yuck.
White rice with milk and sugar- yum.

White rice with butter- yum.
White rice with peas and butter- double yum.
White rice with peas, browned butter and a little Herbamare- triple yum!

[sunshine842]

I'm guessing that it's related to the lack of fat and liquid. White rice (probably parboiled or worse) is kind of sticky and gluey on its own, and the melted sugar just compounds that, especially when it then absorbs whatever liquid from the rice itself.

At least with rice pudding (which I like, too, even if it's not something I go out of the way for) -- you have the liquid and fat to carry the other flavors and make it something other than a ball of sticky-gooey starch in your mouth.

[lemons]

Presbyterian church camp, southeast MO around 1959...warm white rice for breakfast served with milk and sugar, as though it were oatmeal or Cream of Wheat.

[RUK]

Now I remember eating that as a kid growing up in East Germany. It was served with a bit of Raspberry syrup or similar.

[plf515]

Well, if you modify it a bit, you have rice pudding, which is a normal food.

[RUK]

exactly. :-)

[jubilant cerise]

+1000! ;)

Sadly, my partner grew up eating soy sauce on rice and there's nothing I can do to persuade him otherwise. So wrong, so very , very wrong...

[rayrayray]

I can't kick this habit either. Every time I visit my family and they are serving white rice there is soy sauce on the table and my hand instinctively reaches for that bottle.

[jmcarthur8]

No pre-shredded cheese.

No sour cream or cottage cheese with more than 3 ingredients.

No random condiments on the food I just cooked for you.

[PaulF]

I don't like to waste carbs or calories. So, if I don't like something, I don't finish it.

[laliz]

NO Miracle Whip ever ever ever ever ever. Stop making it, please.

No "pancake syrup". Real Maple Syrup please.

No "Cool Whip" it is chemicals, like margarine is chemicals.

No "cheese food"; or "slices"

No flour tortillas where corn tortillas belong, thinking enchiladas especially

No frozen veggies packaged "in butter/cheese sauce"

[Veggo]

like

[theferlyone]

Along the lines of the "cheese food" thing, I don't eat anything where they feel the need to specify that it's food in the fine print...I've also seen something-something "meat food". Yikes.

[Jeri L]

Even worse, "cheese food product".

[EarlyBird]

Wait! I agree 100% with you on everything but for the Miracle Whip. I buy Miracle Whip right around this time every year just so I can put it on my leftover turkey sandwiches. I love that stuff.

[jbsiegel]

Cubed turkey & Miracle Whip. Mix, let sit for 24 hours. BEST...TURKEY...SALAD...EVER!!!!

[EarlyBird]

"Cubed turkey & Miracle Whip. Mix, let sit for 24 hours. BEST...TURKEY...SALAD...EVER!!!!"

YES!

[dgrayzona]

yeeuch!----miracle whip-----Gaaa! ever since i was little i could never stand that crap!

[RetiredChef]

You are friend!

[kubasd23]

friend or fired?

[RetiredChef]

I like Laliz's list - this person is my friend.

[kubasd23]

ah, gotcha....

[Chinon00]

Roasting potatoes they MUST be tossed rosemary

[pj26]

Not thyme, or lemon thyme?

[Chinon00]

I believe the OP stated "irrefutable".

[CanadaGirl]

ONLY rosemary, or is it a minimum requirement for you?

I'd add that when buying a new oven, make sure it's convection so you can have truly excellent roasted potatoes.

[Chinon00]

I figured salt, pepper and olive oil was obvious.

[CanadaGirl]

Me too! But can I add garlic? Or thyme? Or a little parsley at the end?

[Chinon00]

Sure. But salt, pepper olive oil and rosemary are a minimum.

[Heatherb]

I dunno, I just roasted them in honey, chipotle powder, chili powder and olive oil. It was kinda good... Rosemary seemed out of place in that combo.

[FoodFuser]

Breaking a rule about cheese and the seafood.

Why draw a hard line between Piscine and Casein?

Just allow.

[emu48]

1. No reduced-fat or no-fat cheeses, mayos, etc. Ever. They're all inferior. Better to eat the real deal, eat less of it or eat it less often. Life is too short for ersatz food.
2. In a new dim-sum eatery, always start with braised chicken feet and har gao. The quality of these two dishes is a reliable indicator of how good everything else will or won't be.
3. It's OK to eat a meal in a bar, but never in a bar that has no windows.
4. Better get over any hangups you have about farmed seafood. In a few more years, there won't be any other kind. Seafood is the last wild food most people eat, and it's almost gone.

[Tripeler]

emu48,
I happen to love low-fat Emmental and Jarlsberg cheese, and prefer it to standard types for its clean, nutty flavor. I like other low-fat cheeses as well. Guess it is a matter of taste and preference.

[eclecticsynergy]

I've had several bad experiences with reduced-salt cheeses though. Got some low-sodium lacy Swiss that was rubbery and tasteless, and a low-sodium provolone that was equally lacking. Until someone can prove otherwise, to me reduced salt = reduced flavor.

[pj26]

I've been to some pretty amazing tapas bars in Spain that are underground and have no windows. But I think generally that is not a bad rule to live by!

[DavidA06488]

Your rules are pretty good, but about #4. There are still some of us who can get venison from friends who hunt in the fall. That is a wild food that will be around for a while. Irrefutable rule: I insist on marinating venison for 8 hours in red wine, onions, juniper berries, bay leaf, and a few other oddiments before cooking it. I just had lunch and it's making my mouth water thinking about it.

[RUK]

I myself might insist for a tougher cut of venison to substitute the red wine with Buttermilk...not bad at all. :-)

[DavidA06488]

Sounds good, too.

[dinnerwithfox]

I have a few

Will not eat out or pay for food made by someone else unless I know it's going to be worth it and delicious and made with love. I'll bring my own food from home.

Pizza shall never come from pizza hut or the like. I'm a pizza snob it's true.

Soup and noodles will never come from a can or a packet.

[TheHuntress]

Thou shalt buy the best quality ingredients that one can afford.

Thou shalt keep it simple and allow beautiful ingredients to shine in all their glory.

Works for me :)

[Peg]

Never drink instant coffee.

Always use up fresh food before buying any more, no matter how much I'd prefer to eat something different.

[ospreycove]

Smile more and eat more dried beans instead of processed meats.............

[pj26]

I'd rather go without coffee than drink instant.

[invinotheresverde]

I definitely do go along with your first rule and definitely should go with your second.

[jmcarthur8]

Ok, Peg, I knew there would be a character-builder in here somewhere.
That eggplant looked so much better last week before it got all those brown spots. I have to eat it anyway, don't I?

[Peg]

Why would you have an eggplant sitting there after a week?
Even if I can only shop for veg once a week I either use up the ingredients in the 'right order' or I spend a few hours cooking and filling the freezer on the day I shop.
I do realise this sounds like I'm a really irritating person to have in the kitchen and that's probably correct!

[jmcarthur8]

Sometimes there's just so much fresh produce packed in the crisper drawers that it takes the week to get to whatever's on the bottom !
I am guilty of buying what looks good the day I'm at the store, then between work and meetings and life, I simply don't get to all of it while it is fresh and wonderful looking.

[sunshine842]

Hear, hear.

When I buy it I have the best of intentions and a rough mealtime schedule of what day we'll have what...but sometimes the wheels fall off and by Friday I'm in the ditch, scrounging through to figure out how I can salvage it all.

Sick kids, postponed meetings, delayed flights, invitations from friends....all things that have priority over that eggplant.

[lilgi]

I really make an effort to live by the second rule but a couple of things always manage to slip by. This tells me I should probably resist the urge to follow my normal produce list and cut back on a few items monthly which is not at all unreasonable. I think the small extra waste is so that I don't make that extra trip for something I might need later during the week. Additionally I often feel that I spend too much time in the kitchen, so I rarely prepare meals in advance which makes it hard to use up all the items through careful planning. Many would argue that the planning helps decrease overall kitchen time, but in my case it never does. I do enjoy getting and early start on prep work daily to get dinner on the table in the evening.

Didn't mean to go ot, but I like this rule for many reasons.

[Peg]

My work schedule (my boss lets me cram a 5 day week into 4 days so I get a 3 day weekend) means I simply don't have time to cook during the week. I get home from work between 7 and 8pm and am always famished. Planning and cooking ahead are essential if I'm not to end up buying take-out 4 day a week. I have found that it leads to zero waste and there is always something I can nuke for dinner in the freezer. (I only freeze veggie food, never eat meat and if I buy fish I eat it the same day).

[lilgi]

"zero waste" here is an ideal, but I remember when I was working 5 days a week and long commutes, all it merely did was change what I cooked and I was never a big planner, yet like you I managed to stay away from take out as well. Ditto on fish :)

[ErnieD]

My grandpa's big rule, which my dad always applied to us as well, was "if you don't like it, don't eat it, but don't talk about it." Applied to any dish cooked at home, but also to things being eaten around you. I guess I modify when I'm a guest to "eat the smallest potion you can get away with, but don't talk about it." That mantra has gotten me through a number of servings of green bean/cream o mushroom casserole in my day.

[janetofreno]

lol....did we have the same father and I just don't know it? In our family that is known as Grandpa's Rule (the kids named it after my dad - their Grandpa). "Eat it and shut up about it, or don't eat it and shut up about it" All the kids and their cousins understand that the rule is in effect at all family dinners, whether at the house or in a restaurant. I guess that's the closest I have to an irefutable food rule...:-)

[eclecticsynergy]

Buddy Hackett - "As a child my family's menu consisted of two choices: take it or leave it."

[nsstampqueen]

My number 1, will not break it, written in stone rule is - no female lobsters! They should be thrown back when caught. I know people like the roe, I get that, but for me, it's a no brainer. My grandfather had a lobster fishing business and cannery in Newfoundland all his life. He fished every day during season, and raised four children on the money he made (my mom was born in 1920 so this goes back a really long time). But if he could raise a family by catching only male lobsters - then we can do it today. Just think of the literally millions of babies that would potentially be in the waters off the east coast if the females were all put back.

I do understand that people really like the roe, and that's your choice. For myself, I inspect every lobster I purchase, and will not shop at a place that has females in their tanks (as it has happened that I missed one). I also won't eat it in a restaurant if they can't make sure mine's a male.

Another rule - always wear an apron (over white shirts) when frying chicken wings in hot sauce!! Which goes hand in hand with - don't do any cooking/baking/barbecuing while wearing nice white clothes!!

[bitchincook]

No cilantro, ever. May as well season the food with soap shavings.

[nsstampqueen]

Whew, I thought that was just me - every time I have a dish in a restaurant/take-out that has cilantro in it it's fine, nothing out of the ordinary but when I buy the stuff at the grocery store and use it it's soapy, awful, nothing like what I'm used to. I thought it was me not washing it enough, or washing it too much or something, but sounds like I'm not the only one that tastes soap!!

[jsandler]

Cilantro is one of a couple of ingredients that improves nearly everything.

[laliz]

Cilantro is the ONLY ingredient that makes everything taste like soap (that I know of)

[jmckee]

For some people.

[dgrayzona]

cilantro makes salsa and other things like soups come alive. I didn't like it at first, but that was over thirty years ago. here in the southwest cilantro is a given. One just has to learn to be judicious in it's application.

[sunshine842]

you're not a soap-taster...for those who carry the gene (because it is genetic, legitimate, and statistically significant in the population) -- more than a leaf or two overpowers the entire dish, and leaves us grabbing for anything that will take away the flavor.

Judicious, for us, means a leaf or two, or leaving it out completely.

[KWagle]

I tasted soap after hearing this description over and over. The flavor of cilantro really does have a soapy aspect. But it's still yummy and delicious.

I do have to wonder, though, whether the gene also makes people eat soap, and what other strange behavior it fosters, because there isn't any reason for anyone to know what soap tastes like other than being curious about the way people perceive cilantro!

[jvanderh]

I think most people have sort of a basic idea from washing their faces or hair without their mouths closed tightly enough!

[sunshine842]

or having been disciplined for having a sassy mouth when they were young.

You might try just accepting (and counting your blessings) that you're one of the ones who just tastes cilantro...I wish I liked it, but I just don't.

There's some pretty serious, legitimate medical research about it -- nobody's making it up, and nobody should be accused of aberrant behaviour just because you don't taste what I do.

[linguafood]

I wonder if the genetic predisposition can be overruled. I used to loathe cilantro (it made eating in Thailand difficult, to say the least -- always had to say ' no pak chi'), but slowly, very gradually, I've come to not only tolerate it, but love it.

Maybe my genes are just spineless pushovers, tho, who knows.

[PaulF]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/din...

linguafood --

according to that article, that genetic predisposition can be overcome. The article details why some people are offended by cilantro and how overtime that offensiveness might be overcome.

Thought you might find it interesting.

[sunshine842]

Interesting question, but I have no idea.

I dislike it enough to not want to try it very much, though I can understand that in Thailand it's a case of having to learn to deal with it -- soap works as a descriptor, and I've also heard it described as taking a big bite of grass clippings right out of the mower.

To me, anything more than a token amount just overpowers everything in the dish, and I can't taste anything else.

[invinotheresverde]

I'm also a hater-turned-lover.

[linguafood]

That heavenly tofu dish I make would not be the same without cilantro.

[jvanderh]

I'm not so convinced it's always all-or-nothing either. There's evidence of a genetic component, but I think the concordance in identical twins is only about 80%.

This article is interesting: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/din...

It makes several valid points, including:

There are similar aldehydes in soap and cilantro. It's not surprising that people say they taste similar.

Experiences are important. I find that to be very true- we're animalistically prone to food aversion, and combining an ambiguous or slightly strange taste with having someone try to make you eat it probably cements the hatred, whereas seeing people around you enjoying it without pressuring you to eat it probably does the opposite. That's certainly been my experience with little kids trying new foods. Every time I get the chance, I try to talk parents of young children out of getting too pushy at the table. It's a fine line of course, a little bit of vegetable resistance is entirely normal, but when the kid is getting legitimately upset and you're shoving it down his throat, you're not doing any good.

Not in the article, but my experience with herbs is that a plant that lives a pampered life will be milder flavored. I think the odiferous compounds evolved as a defense against being demolished by critters, and that they're produced in greater quantity when the plant is stressed by a bug attack, under watering, etc.

I'm not saying all this in order to suggest that people need to rethink their hatred of cilantro. I totally understand how strong food disgust can be. I think raw onion makes people smell utterly revolting for about 24 hours afterwards- like they are emitting rancid meat from every pore. Maybe I have a slight allergy, or my ancestors lived near a poisonous allium, or I was given raw onion juice in my sippy cup. It really doesn't matter- I trust my nose implicitly, and I respect your right to trust yours.

[KWagle]

I'm quite aware of the science. I'm accusing people of aberrant behavior because they taste soap, not because they dislike cilantro! But I guess now I have to taste grass clippings too. :-/

[EarlyBird]

Very interesting. I dont' have the cilantro-tastes-like-soap gene, apparently. I love the stuff.

But...am I the only one for whom ground cumin, in the jar, smells like very strong B.O.? I mean it.

[Jay F]

That's exactly what cumin smells like to me, armpit--in particular, one belonging to someone who doesn't do his laundry particularly often. I can only use a teeny, tiny bit of it, and it has to be cooked, and only in a meat dish.

[EarlyBird]

Exactly, Jay! Glad I'm not the only one.

[Jay F]

EB, I had a burrito for lunch today, and it had so much cumin in it, I've been burping it ever since.

[DavidA06488]

IMHO sounds like a badly made one.

[DavidA06488]

You either love it or hate it. I'm in the former camp. Maybe it will turn out to be pne of those things like turnips or rutabagas. Some people have an enzyme that makes those vegetables taste awful, while others don't have a problem with them.

[eclecticsynergy]

I'm on the fence with this one, personally. Have never been able to understand how a little can be so good and a little more can be so bad. A hint in salsa or gaucamole is great. But if I get a whole unbroken little leaf- instant soapiness. And yet the green sauce ("cilantro chutney") that Indian restaurants serve somehow tastes wonderful to me, even though cilantro is the dominant flavor. Maybe one of the other ingredients in that sauce contains traces of the magic enzyme.

[DavidA06488]

Like a little salt can be helpful with flavor, but a lot can make your mouth go into spasms. Cooking the herb may help as well.

[Fowler]

I will not order anything in a restaurant that I can easily make at home.

I will not order a steak in a seafood restaurant.

[PaulF]

That sort of reminds me of one of my dad's rules.

He won't order tuna in a deli. My mom and I both do it. His feeling is that he can make tuna at home just as well as the deli can, but a hot corned beef sandwich is best done in the restaurant. It really bugs him. We do it anyway.

[rohirette]

Yes! I do not understand people ordering cheesy chicken dishes (for example) in a restaurant. You just spent $20 for something you could do at home for $5. I order only foods that I cannot easily prepare at home.

My second rule is that if it tastes good, I will not pretend it doesn't, even if we are talking about Applebees.

Finally, No Cool Whip allowed. Why do people go to to trouble to make a pie from scratch or (semi) scratch, and then refuse to spend 2 extra minutes with a bowl and a mixer? There is no skill or hassle required??!

[mattstolz]

<i will not order anything in a restaurant i can easily make at home>

same here! this also includes things that are kinda tricky to make at home, but that i believe i can make well. if i'm eatin out, the chef is workin for my money!

[bwinter714]

1. Never eat at chain restaurants. You can keep your applebees, lone star, olive garden etc. There are plenty of local, privately owned restaurants that are much, much better. Plus, you're generally keeping you money locally rather than sending it to a corporate headquarters elsewhere.

2. Never buy any "Organic" fruit or vegetable that you have to peel. It makes no sense. An "Organic" Avacado is no different chemically from a "conventional" Avacado.

3. The general use of the word "Organic" as being superior to anything else. As an engineer, semantics really mean quite a lot, and to me, anything that is "Organic" contains carbon, which is every living thing and lots and lots of non-living things on the face of the earth. Congratulations, that twinkee (sp?) and that chair your pretentious ass is sitting on is also, technically, organic. If everyone would say "Organically Grown" or how about, "Without any pesticides, fertilizers, or modified genetics", then maybe I wouldn't want to choke the next yuppy douche that tells me I'm going to get cancer and die because my salad isn't organic. Yes, douche, it is organic, not it wasn't grown organically.

Then again, I might be in the minority when it comes to my last statement :)

[Fowler]

That's an excellent point. An unscrupulous producer could put “organic” on anything.

[pj26]

And organic does not always mean taste better.

[Peg]

But 'organic' does mean the land was managed in a more ecologically aware way, which is why I do try to buy organic veg and eggs.

[bwinter714]

Peg, you're right, and I'm not knocking the movement in general. I think ecologically it is a great movement, and I fully support it. It's the overuse that is starting to trouble me.

And yes, Free-range, hormone-free eggs are the only ones I buy, and I'm lucky to be able to go right to the farm to get them. There is nothing like a farm fresh egg, after eating those for a while I tried a conventional store-bought egg and it was difficult to choke down.

[ospreycove]

Bwinter, I somewhat agree; but what about the new systemic pesticides that are now being used on some fruits and veg. Systemic meaning the pesticides are drawn up by the plants and "circulate in the sap, etc. internally.

[bwinter714]

Osprey,

I understand what you are saying, and there is an alarming increase in what you are describing. In some cases, the pesticides can actually modify the genetics of the trees themselves, leading to problems in later generations of the plants. The fact that people spray these chemicals without any long-term studies of the effect on humans or the biological well-being of the plants is simply irresponsible.

Though fortunately, for now anyway, the problem isn't wide-spread. And the levels of toxicity in the fruits of the plants is almost untraceable. My best friend works for a private company that does testing for the Dept of Agriculture or the FDA, (I can't remember which, my field is industrial robotics), and tests a variety of consumables including the fruit, and the main body of the plant, vegetables etc. While the soils have been found to contain high levels of pesticides, the levels in the plant decrease rapidly as you move from the tip of the root to the body of the plant in question. Though he feels the same as I do, it's only a matter of time before the natural filter mechanisms in the plant break down and start depositing the chemicals in the fruit.

[foiegras]

There are government standards, certification processes, and consumer watchdog organizations. You can't just slap USDA organic on anything.

Organic is not pretentious. It's a label, yes, but it's not Louis Vuitton.

[mateo21]

Organic as a food label does has meaning, rather strictly controlled by the USDA. Unlike, say, Natural.

[eclecticsynergy]

And yet "organic" by the FDA's big-industry-favoring definition falls FAR short of the standards that organic food associations recommended and still aspire to. And short of what any reasonable person would expect when we think of organic food. Except maybe George Orwell.

For instance, the FDA allows labeling genetically modified foods as "organic." Many consumers are unaware of this since it's mostly been kept out of the press. In fact, it's quite difficult to find out how many of the foods you eat have been genetically modified. This is not accidental. Most of us are eating a lot more GMO food than we realize, and it's increasing all the time.

Another example- the FDA permits massmarket factory farms to begin with conventional seedlings and then to label the crop as "organic" as long as they are treated while growing according to the certain guidelines.

These loopholes for big business go a long way towards undercutting the genuine organic farmers who are honestly producing genuinely organic food. Sadly, family farmers and the sincere natural growers can't afford a multimillion-dollar lobby in Washington, so guess who reaps the benefits- while the public is kept in the dark about it, blindly trusting that the FDA must be doing the right thing?

After all, the FDA is there to protect the public, not the industry, right? Unfortunately, it's headquartered in Washington DC with the rest of the government. They should've put it out in the heartland somewhere and made it off limits to big agribusiness money.

[mateo21]

I've heard this many, many times. And I'm not sure about it.

GMO foods have yet to receive any sort of regulatory status in the US -- so why would them being in conventional vs. organic food be an issue? I'd rather not get into a GMO debate here, but I'd say this point falls short of demonstrating that USDA organic is some contrived cop-out for big business.

About the "massmarket [sic] factory farms to being with conventional seedlings..." what are the mysterious "certain guidelines"... might these include pesticide regulations? Again, another point too vague to be accurate criticism.

Is the public really kept in the dark? Seeing as you know about all of these secrets... While I would consent to the influence that money has on the regulations, what you're talking about is a larger issue with our food production system, not with organic regulations. We're far better off with the USDA version than nothing, where big-Ag could claim what they wanted and throw an organic label on it.

[piccola]

Most of mine have already been said:

1- Don't yuck someone's yum.
2- Don't waste money or stomach space on something you don't like.
3- Don't lie about food (ie, what's in it, how it was cooked, etc).
4- No double-starch meals -- pasta and bread, pancakes and hashbrowns, etc -- unless it's a really exceptional situation. I don't care if someone else does it, though.

Though I guess my main rule is not to eat something I can't kill, thus the vegetarianism.

[SteveRB]

Never say never to chain restaurants. I live in San Diego, and restaurants such as Donovan's, Oceanaire, Santouka (just to name a few) always make it on the short list among Chowhounds and critics for the best in the city for that type of food.

[bwinter714]

You know what, I didn't think about that, it's unfair to place all chains into one category. Yes, I do agree with you on that point, though as a generality, you know what chains aren't worth their salt they overuse on their food.

[piccola]

That wasn't me. I'm fine with some chains -- I love the salad bar at Ruby Tuesday, for one -- though I can't say I go very often.

[woodleyparkhound]

I too don't like two starches together: two fried items on the same plate, samosas that contain potatoes (essentially all of them), a curry with potatoes served over rice, garlic bread with pasta, etc.

[piccola]

Yeah, it just seems out of balance to me, which is why I never get rice in burritos. But I'm sure some people love it.

[woodleyparkhound]

Right ... I never get rice in burritos either!

[pine time]

Oh, sounds like Mr. Pine--won't eat bread with potatoes, or any 2 starches. Used to drive me crazy, till I finally cooked what I wanted and he can pick and choose which ones to eat.

[pj26]

there are some establishments in the north of England where it is not entirely unusual to order pasta, which is then served with a side of chips (fries)!

[woodleyparkhound]

Pasta with chips? Oh dear!

[pj26]

you might even get a helping of bread as well!

[PotatoHouse]

My wife's only food rule, "When traveling, NEVER eat at a restaurant you can eat at when at home".

[nsstampqueen]

I agree, really makes me shake my head when people are looking to go to a great restaurant when they are on vacation and they go to somewhere like Ruth's Chris. This is something I see a lot on Trip Advisor - people asking how is the food at "insert chain here". For me, when you are travelling eat local! I wouldn't go to most of the places when I'm at home, why would I when I'm travelling.

[sunshine842]

the only exception to that is when it's late or I'm tired, and I'm starving.

When I reach that point, my primary objective is fuel...and when you don't have the time or energy to drive around and appreciate something local, sometimes a known value is a good thing...even if the known value is lower than what you might ordinarily seek out.

[nsstampqueen]

That is true, when you're out of time, running late, desperate for a nosh, etc. then it's completely forgiveable to look at those golden arches, red haired pigtails, or bucket of finger lickin' chicken with happiness!! Ok all kidding aside, I know what you are saying, sometimes the moment calls for desperate measures and if you were home or near home you'd just about eat anywhere too! That's the way my week has been - work all day, work the trade show all evening, drive home at 10 p.m. and grab the first quick meal on the way home - and believe me I know those salads aren't that healthy - but it's better than some options - fuel me up baby!!

[sunshine842]

...I'm with you...even if it's Chili's or Bob Evans.

And when you reach that point, you're probably also too tired/stressed out/over it all/hungry to actually appreciate someone independent and local, anyway.

This former saleschick is a veteran of more Cracker Barrel takeout salads at 11pm than she cares to recall...but when it's that, having a sandwich out of a vending machine (ugh), or going to bed starving...the salad starts looking pretty good.

[sherriberry]

That's my rule too.

[piccola]

Oooh, I'm adding this one to my own rules. Adding to it, I generally try to order dishes that are specific to the restaurant, instead of getting something I can order anywhere. For ex, I rarely order salads in veg restaurants because that's my backup in normal restaurants.

[plf515]

This is one I try to follow, although, since I am from NYC, it isn't always easy. Still, I do try to go local.

[mattstolz]

i agree on this one!! why eat somewhere you have at your disposal all the time??

related: if i am travelling and ask someone for a reccomendation, and their answer includes a chain of any kind (unless it is a very local chain, like in and out burger), they are removed from my referral list forever.

[PotatoHouse]

There are a couple of chains worth visiting, of course it depends on whether you have them close to home. Five Guys Burgers (at least the one we visited in Orlando FL) and Fuddruckers.

[mattstolz]

meh.

if im gonna have a burger, im not gonna get it from a fast food place in general. also, especially in these cases, i feel i would still rather get my burger fix (or whatever other fix im craving) from a good local place doin it right and fresh over one you mentioned

[gerndel]

I agree with you on destinations, but to me a road trip isn't a road trip if I don't eat at a Wendy's or McDonalds off the interstate

[mattstolz]

chick-fil-a and cracker barrel are our family's interstate stops of choice

[Jay F]

mattstolz: "chick-fil-a and cracker barrel are our family's interstate stops of choice"

Because of their political leanings?

[mattstolz]

at the risk of hijacking this thread into a political dicussion,

i choose the places i eat for one reason:

do they take good ingredients and turn them into delicious food?

thats it. the political choices of the people in suits who have probably not stepped into one of their own kitchens in years has nothing to do with whether i enjoy the food their restos serve

[Jay F]

I've only eaten at Chick-Fil-A once, and didn't think it was all that great. When I found out about their politics, I decided never to darken their doorway again. Not a problem, though, as I didn't like the food.

I've never been to a Cracker Barrel, and doubt I ever will eat at one, and yes, it's because of their politics. It's a good enough reason to make not eating in such a place one of my irrefutable food rules.

[Peg]

Another one I stick to is that when travelling abroad I only go to restaurants serving the food of the country I am visiting. I am always amazed to read the posts asking for the 'best Chinese food in Munich', or 'where to find pho in Venice'. OK, I'm making the examples up but they're not far from the truth.

[lemons]

I'd probably modify that a little; if the country in another time had an empire, their food has crept in (and this goes in both directions), and that's possibly a good bet. The first time I ever ate couscous was in Paris (i.e., Algeria) and London has great Indian and Chinese (i.e., Hong Kong) food.

And come to think of it, Norway gets a huge number of immigrants, and we have had some tasty Indian food there, utilizing that excellent fish and lamb. But perhaps that's because it was preceeded by the simple and relatively unseasoned Norwegian food, nice but leaving us spice-deprived. (Still, long live fiskesuppe!)

[susancinsf]

I apply that rule when travelling for short periods of time, even in the US (I remember being in Lincoln, Nebraska once and my hosts wanting to take me to a seafood place, "because you are from San Francisco, so we know you must like seafood" and I was silently begging, "please just take me to a steak house".) However, when travelling for longer periods, I do like seeking out foods from different ethnicities than the prominent one (and the point about immigrant culture and empires that 'lemons' makes is a good one). Variety being the spice of life and all of that, and sometimes it is a way to get great eats. I've had great couscous in Paris myself; as well as the best steamed bao I ever ate in my life.

[janetofreno]

But then again there is my husband's irrefutable food rule: "Never eat Indian food in Paris" :-) Its fine in London, obviously....

[pine time]

I'm always amazed when we're in India and Mr. Pine's family wants to take us to a Chinese restaurant.

[janetofreno]

Actually, many restaurant cooks in India are ethnic Chinese...and my experience there is that Chinese food can often be a good option...so not that surprising to me....especially since the best Indian cooks are found in homes, not in restaurants. A Chinese restaurant might be one of the better options for eating out, especially outside of the major cities....

(And one of my favorite Indian restaurants in the US - unfortunately no longer with us - had a chef/owner named Jimmy Wong. Jimmy had been raised in India, and learned to cook there, but he was definitely Chinese by birth....)

[linguafood]

There is fantastic Turkish, Greek & Italian food to be had in Berlin, and I can totally see how someone traveling there wouldn't want to have Berlin or German cuisine at every single meal.

[sunshine842]

and expats are sometimes jonesing something ***different***

[TexSquared]

Really depends on where you're travelling to. Definitely Europe or Asia or Africa you'd be looking for the local cuisine. Coastal areas of the U.S. I'm looking for seafood, southern U.S. I want BBQ.... geography and common sense dictate what you should be getting.

But there are some places which just don't have anything uniquely local, everything is a copycat of somewhere else. Toronto is one of the worst at this, it's where I live, and it's what made me reply!. If you were coming here, you would be researching where the "best Chinese", "best Greek" etc are.

[nsstampqueen]

Isn't that sort of true for most of Canada though Tex? I mean ok, when you're in the maritimes or BC you might want to see about seafood but not so much in landlocked Edmonton (although some places fly it in fresh so if you're willing to pay for it you can get it). And although my cholesterol readings might show otherwise, you can only eat so much Alberta beef before you are desperately trying to find a nice vegetarian place! I find we have such a broad range of cultures here, and some very talented people have immigrated from elsewhere and set up wonderful, tasty restaurants that are worth going to. And I'm with you, when I'm on the east coast of the US it has to be seafood, Texas and other southern states - BBQ, California - seafood or mexican food.

[TexSquared]

Montreal has a lot of items that are unique to that area -- bagels, smoked meat, and poutine being the big 3 but there are others. Toronto does not have anything unique enough. We could never host an episode of No Reservations, Bizarre Foods, DDD, or even Samantha Brown... when those shows have been to Montreal AND Vancouver.

Read the Toronto board for lots of self-loathing: our bagel and smoked meat places are always compared unfavorably to the Montreal originals, threads about Japanese and Chinese food are constantly hijacked by a certain posse of frequent business fliers who start name-dropping Michelin star places in Tokyo, Hong Kong and New York, discussions about our French cuisine you know someone's gonna mention Alain Ducasse, and so on.... the take-home message from the board is Toronto is "never good enough". Always imitating never duplicating.

You don't travel to Toronto looking for "local cuisine", you come here looking for "copycat cuisine".

[nsstampqueen]

I find quite a bit of that on the Prairie board too - comparing Chinese restaurants, especially Dim Sum places to Vancouver, China, or San Francisco (and other places). I know you will never see Eat Street in Edmonton - we might have 3 actual food trucks (and that's if the BBQ truck is still operating). We have street food on one street (and those are permanent locations not even stands). Really, if we didn't have Alberta beef we'd be completely hooped! I travel to Toronto to visit my mom and brother and they never say "oh you have to check out this place for...". Alas, i guess it's our loss.

We used to have a place worthy of DDD but it closed - due to financial difficulties. I don't think even Rachel Ray would do $40 a day here, lol. Oh well, this is what we travel for right??

[bwinter714]

OK, I forgot a couple after reading these!

4. Hellmanns Mayo only, thank you. I know it's almost blasphemous in the south to not like Miracle Whip, which is a good thing because I live in NY :)

5. There is only one kind of pizza in my book, and that is thin-crust. Don't get me wrong, Chicago is by far my favorite city after NYC, for a whole lot of reasons not just the food. I've had Chicago deep-dish on many occasions, and it is delicious. But you better be hungry, because it's a meal. If I want a snack, I grab a slice of thin-crust and continue on my way, if I'm hungry, I eat 4 slices. Better yet, I'll paraphrase what I just said, "If you need a knife and fork, it's not pizza"

6. No nuts (almonds, pinenuts, etc.) or fruit in salad or in sauce that goes on food. It's a texture thing for me. I love both separtely, just not together.

7. And I know, I am in the vast minority, but I HATE Jello. It is definitely the consistency; It doesn't feel natural, and my body rejects it, literally lol.

[KaimukiMan]

when it comes to food. . .

Never Say Never

[mattstolz]

agreed!

[kerosundae]

no raw cucumber on raw animal flesh (fish, carpaccio, tartare, any cured but not cooked meat) or soon-to-be animals (egg).
For some reason, something in cucumber and something in the animals mix with my saliva to produce the most foul, fishy and piss-like taste that makes me want to throw up instantly.
Nobody else I know experiences this, they say it just tastes like cucumber and whatever meat.

[foiegras]

Maybe this is your own little genetic mutation ;)

I always say I don't like raw meat, and then end up eating it anyway when dining with others (Vietnamese family style, or tastes of someone else's sashimi).

[jmckee]

No real irrefutable rules in my house, exactly; we're busy omnivores. But a couple of principles are almost hard and fast:

When on vacation in our beloved Outer Banks, no chain restaurants (all local), and no non-local seafood in my rented kitchen.

No supermarket apples; only from our local orchards, of which we now have one less after a great family business closed their apple house this fall.

No pre-ground pepper. I even take my white pepper mill on vacation with me.

No canned soup. We just can't stomach it any more.

No other canned tomatoes but Red Gold.

[Fowler]

jmckee,

Have you ever tried Muir Glen canned tomatoes? They are good as far as canned tomatoes go. I especially like the fire roasted ones.

[Heatherb]

I only eat the Pomi tomatos or ones that come in a jar...

[DavidA06488]

As others have posted, Muir Glen Fire Roasted and Pomi are the way to go when truly ripe fresh local tomatoes are unavailable. But, de gustibus non disputandum.

[PotatoPuff]

Don't microwave anything that can be put in a toaster oven

[Isolda]

Always double the vanilla. Don't argue. Just do it.

[gregg407]

I agree. I also like to double the cheese on any/all sandwiches, and I often double the eggs and/or egg yolks in just about any recipe.

[nsstampqueen]

It happened today when I was shopping - DO NOT SQUISH THE BREAD!!! I don't care if you're the grocery clerk, my hubby or my kids - DO NOT SQUISH THE BREAD!!!

I will not eat squished bread - it ruins the useability of the darn stuff - try toasting something that is seriously misshapen and full of holes!! I will actually buy myself (and just myself) another loaf of bread and hide it from everyone if someone in the house squishes my bread. I get upset when a cashier/clerk does it because they really should know better and treat customers purchases better. Although I have never asked for a replacement it's come close a few times.

[PaulF]

I forgot my most blatant (personal) food rule:

No dairy. No milk, no cream, no cheese, no butter. (I don't actually read labels on baked goods to see if they contain milk products, but I won't eat Cream of Whatever soup. I even insist on protein powders made from egg protein, no whey protein).

My wife and kids are the same way.

[linguafood]

Allergies? Lactose intolerance?

Bummer.

[PaulF]

Nothing like that at all.

It's a choice and providing details behind that choice would "yuck your yum" -- a phrase I never knew before reading this thread, but nonetheless something I don't like to do.

I encourage you to enjoy your cheese and milk (seriously, if I knew you were coming to my home and knew you liked cheesecake I would buy one or make one). I just prefer to not have any myself.

[CanadaGirl]

Don't order the menu item that doesn't belong! No pizza at a burger place, no fish at a pasta place, etc. Just don't do it; its almost always horrible.

[nsstampqueen]

Hear hear!! That's another great one - I wouldn't take a chance on say liver and onions with mashed and gravy at a chinese buffet.

[jubilant cerise]

1. Never order rice as a side at a non-Asian food restaurant. (Pretty much the same as CanadaGirl's rule, just more specific.) It's either horrible parboiled rice or a disgusting pilaf (made with parboiled rice, to boot). Mind you, I've had bad plain rice at Asian restaurants as well (too wet, too dry, obviously yesterday's batch) but it's happened to me more often at the former. Rice is really easy to cook, so there's just no excuse for bad plain rice.

2. When eating out, only order what I have room for. (I don't drive, so if I have plans afterwards it's awkward to walk around with leftovers.)

3. Also when eating out, I always order something different than what my partner is eating unless it's something like pizza or chinese where it's meant to be shared.

4. Never drink wine made from kits or u-brew businesses.

[pj26]

Have to disagree on the rice - some of the nicest rice I have is from a Turkish ocakbasi, I think they use a load of butter on their rice and then meat juices mixed through. It's amazing - it really has to be with those ingredients!

But definitely with you on the ordering something different from my partner, only because I want to try a bit of everything!

[CanadaGirl]

Turkey is (mostly) Asian :)

[pj26]

Depends where you are from :)

[lemons]

Hmmm...I thought turkey was an American bird. :)

[CanadaGirl]

We eat them in Canada too :)

[gregg407]

Well, Canada is part of NORTH America.

[jubilant cerise]

CanadaGirl: I have yet to eat at at Turkish restaurant. Guess it's time to save up for a plane ticket... ;)

[pj26]

you should probably just head to the UK instead of Turkey - I have been told by many Turks the food served in some London places is much better than in their native country!

[jubilant cerise]

pj26 that Turkish rice does sound good - of course butter makes everything better. :) It's mostly plain rice at restaurants that have been treacherous mistakes for me (or pilaf made with instant or parboiled rice). Even at restaurants I eat at regularly! - I take a chance since I like everything else and then - disappointment.

[Fowler]

>>>Never order rice as a side at a non-Asian food restaurant.<<<

I have enjoyed some excellent risotto at Italian restaurants in Italy.

[plf515]

OK, but, properly speaking, risotto is not a side dish, it's a course.

[cgarner]

disagree with the wine comment. my first foray into home made wine aside from under the tutledge of my father was from a 'kit' and it turned out very good.

[foiegras]

I've had truly heavenly rice at a Middle Eastern hallal restaurant ... from their buffet, no less, which is better than ordering from their menu. It's so cute ... they have little signs up ... Don't Waste Food! Take Only What You Will Eat.

[jubilant cerise]

"1. Never order rice as a side at a non-Asian food restaurant."

Sorry for the confusion - to clarify, I meant plain rice. Risotto and pilafs are of course delish!

[laliz]

I keep thinking about this thread and am really enjoying reading people's responses.

I add to my list mentally.

No instant or minute or parboiled rice.
No Mortons table salt, I'm not a salt snob but since I began using coarse Kosher salt, that is all I have in the house.
No canned pepper i.e. sawdust. Same as salt. Since I began using fresh ground pepper, there is no going back.
No meat tenderizer. i.e. Adoph's or whatever that junk was I grew up on.

[RedTop]

You might consider adding sea salt to your pantry, laliz. And we have a very nice Himalayan Pink salt from TJs in our too.

[lilgi]

A friend of mine (who doesn't bake or cook much) gave me a cookie book where almost every recipe had shortening in it. I already knew this wasn't going to work, but with an open mind I tried 3 recipes from it. I soon got rid of it.

No shortening in my cookies or pie crust, I'll use lard for the crust instead.

[buttertart]

I have a couple of cookie recipes that are absolutely dependent upon shortening for their texture.

[lilgi]

They would never be baked here.

[buttertart]

You'd be missing some awfully nice cookies!

[lilgi]

And yes, it's all about the texture. The thread is about irrefutable food rules.

[buttertart]

And mine is "suum cuique".

[lilgi]

right.

[foiegras]

When I stopped baking with shortening, I had to stop making Snickerdoodles. My recipe didn't really work without it ... ah well.

[woodleyparkhound]

Yes! I recently got a Snickerdoodle at a bakery - very disappointing, not at all like the ones I used to make in high school. Sometime after that it hit me - it wasn't made with shortening - that is crucial for Snickerdoodles.

[foiegras]

It would be interesting to try half butter, half coconut oil, and see what happened ...

[livetocook]

I've always made my snickerdoodles with butter and they are one of the top yummy cookies I make. Now, you've got me wondering what I'm missing out on. Less cake-y ????

[sunshine842]

so substitute butter.

[lilgi]

I often do when a recipe doesn't depend on it, as I do with lard in the pie crust. I really only use some shortening in fondant which none of us eat anyway (for the pretty cakes ;)

[buttertart]

These particular cookies are only the same with shortening. But if no shortening allowed, what the hey.

[mateo21]

I once was given a cookbook called: "A Man, A Can, a Plan"... it was 3-5 ingredient recipes using one more more pre-fab canned sauces, soups, etc., it was... interesting.

[lilgi]

hahahah..that's way worse than mine, but I'm sure he had the best of intentions...I think.(Did it at least make it to the bathroom shelf I wonder?)

[cgarner]

I was given "a man, a can and a grill" (and I'm not a man)
I actually like one recipe from that book, Spicy Bangkok Birdies. It's the only recipe that doesn't seem to be using canned ingredients, just for the sake of using something in a can
(coconut milk comes in a can... it also calls for chicken broth from a can, but I always have frozen)

[dgrayzona]

lard ------Shhh!---that's a secret

[Alan Sudo]

Wonderful dining companions more than compensate for mediocre food.
Of course, if the food and the friends are both delightful, that's ideal, and that’s what I strive for when hosting. However, I refuse to decline a dinner invitation based on the expected food alone.
I'll take canned soup casseroles over canned conversations any day, and an evening at a gastropub with a Grinch sounds ghastly.

[elenacampana]

My favorite post so far - thanks! It's so tempting for a passionate cook to make rules, and I do have many, but I think the most important one should be "choose your dinner companions wisely, love their company, and be grateful that you have food to share." One of the best meals I ever had was right after my father died - a colleague brought me a white-bread-grilled-cheese-food-and-margarine sandwich with a side of good bourbon.

[DavidA06488]

Sounds like a good friend who knew what you needed.

[krismcd59]

Best rule of the bunch.

[Terrieltr]

My take on that is that food is always made better by good company.

[jlhinwa]

I have many of the same rules as listed above (no yukking someone's yum, using good ingredients, not wasting calories on mediocre food, etc.). A couple more: Try and try again foods that I didn't like in the past, or food that I used to turn my nose up at because I didn't think I would like it. Tastes change, memory (especially childhood food memories) can be flawed, and different preparations of a food can be revelatory. My current example of that is guacamole. I thought I hated it. I am pretty sure I just hated how I had it prepared as a teenager, but spent 25-30 years avoiding it all together.

When traveling, never ever eat at a restaurant or chain that I can find at home.

[Klary]

no raw onions, no raw garlic

no canned foods except tomatoes and pulses

never buy anyting already cut up that I can cut up myself

no fake meats (I love tofu end tempeh, but if I want a sausage, I'll have a real sausage and not a tofu one)

a bag of crisps needs to be divided *exactly* (by weight) between me and my husband

only eat sweet things that are really really good - I don't have much of a sweet tooth and hate wasting 'sugar calories' and mediocre baked goods.

[Fowler]

>>>no raw onions, no raw garlic<<<

Klary, Would you mind talking some sense into a few of my coworkers? :-)

[Terrieltr]

I have a vegetarian friend who HATES pseudo-meat. She loves a veggie burger that tries to taste good, instead of like meat, but says that she's vegetarian partially because she doesn't like how meat tastes, so why the heck would she want her tofu to taste like it?

[sunshine842]

I have several friends who are vegetarian because they can't stand the texture of meat (the taste is okay, but...)

So they avoid the meat-textured stuff like the plague.

In some ways it's easy to cook for them, as they'll eat things with stocks and sauces that are meat-based...but sometimes it's hard to find something that's not meat-textured. (one of them won't eat mushrooms because of the texture -- loves the flavor of mushrooms, but not the texture)

[Mosaica]

In my experience, really good bacon (like the bacon I make here at home) is tastiest when fried low and slow, and thus can be fried while naked with no problems.

[cachinnator]

No food that has the consistency of snot (e.g., pulque, uncooked egg white)
No excessive consumption of eel jerky
No American cheese, Miracle Whip, imitation seafood, or "lite" anything
No menudo
No shark fin soup
and...
you do not have to add cilantro to EVERY Mexican dish!

[cgarner]

you do not have to add cilantro to EVERY Mexican dish!
___________________________________________
Unless you are my husband and then ... you do!

[plf515]

Eel jerky? Never heard of it! I love eel! Hmmm. Now I gotta find some of this!

[cachinnator]

I had it in China (Shanghai, I think) back in 1982. It was delicious! But I ate too much of it and had the runs the next day.

[PotatoHouse]

Eel is my favorite sushi, so maybe I should try to get some Eel Jerky.

[DavidA06488]

True re cilantro.

[jbsiegel]

Fruit is NOT a dessert!! :-)

[DavidA06488]

Either you're trying to be provocative (which I guess you are), or you have forgotten that many cuisines use fruit as the perfect dessert.

[jbsiegel]

No...not trying to be provocative - sorry if it was offensive. I was just giving my own personal opinion (as in the title of the thread). Nothing against fruit...just don't like it myself for dessert. In my world, it's a fine breakfast food, salad food, etc. Just not dessert!

[sunshine842]

pity you missed the gorgeous figs poached in red wine and honey that we had for dessert tonight.

[jbsiegel]

I'm going with chocolate tonight!! :-)

[DavidA06488]

On the other hand, dark chocolate is one of the essential food groups.

[mattstolz]

my favorite dessert ive ever had at a restaurant was the fruit soup at hakkasan miami. before that this was my rule as well. but this changed my mind!

[cookedfood]

Women who can't cook is a turn off for me. Sad but true.

[foiegras]

I feel exactly the same way about men who can't cook ;)

[cookedfood]

Well we'd have a pretty productive date because I cook for a living ;)

[krismcd59]

I used to have a rule that I wouldn't eat any dessert that wasn't chocolate, but the older I get, the more I prefer the flavor of vanilla. I also like this one from Michael Pollan's "Food Rules": "Eat all the junk food you like, as long as you make it yourself from scratch."

[cachinnator]

I gave my husband "Food Rules." We both especially love that rule too. Every few months we make our own french fries. Yum!

[DavidA06488]

As I noted above, chocolate is one of the essential food groups, and I am older too. However, Ilike your second point. Nothing like oven toasted/fried potatoes/sweet potatoes!

[scubadoo97]

My rule is there is no rule. If it taste good it's fair game

[TexSquared]

I agree. My dislikes are all things that I have tried and found not to taste good. If it tastes good to someone else, so what, it doesn't affect me at all since I'm not eating it, and (as one poster put it) I won't yuck their yum. Not to their face anyway, might do it here! :-)

[newJJD]

1) No lecturing on what is "authentic". For example, if Patty Melts happen to have been served on sourdough where I grew up, then that's what I am going to cally a Patty Melt. I don't care for a 5 minute discourse on Patty Melts, and then emailed a link to the wikipedia entry to Patty Melts where it says they are traditionally served on rye.

2) Don't go to a popular/trendy restaurant, and hope for it to be awful, just so you can post some contrarian diatribe on this or other sites. I've met people like this, they must live horrifying lives.

3) If I feel like a cappucino after 11 am in Italy, I will have one. I'm not afraid of being labelled a tourist, just as I'm sure the Italians aren't when they visit North American beaches in their ridiculous Speedos.

[Fowler]

newJJD,

I love those points!!

[TexSquared]

I have to disagree on your 1 and 3. I like to learn what's authentic and have it the "right way". I won't lecture others on it; it's strictly for my own learning experience and to increase my appreciation for other cuisines. I'm glad I learned to appreciate proper sushi and quit eating the stupid Monster Truck Rolls dunked in the Yoda Mudbath. Unfortunately some people do take it to extreme, like certain restaurant owners that give their customers attitude if they ask for something that they feel is an affront to their operation; the Terroni chain in Toronto and Los Angeles is legendary for this. Their waitstaff are rude to customers, because management tells them to be. Our way or the highway. I choose the highway.

I do agree wholeheartedly with your #2. I have better things to do with my time and money than to go somewhere I won't enjoy (like Terroni). Now if someone else is paying the bill (I used to be a mystery shopper!), sure, I'll go, and if I hate it I'll report it. But if it's on my dime I am going to research thoroughly on CH, Yelp, and other sources of opinion, to make sure there's a, say 90% chance of a good experience. Or I'll go to the tried-and-true where I know what to expect and have enjoyed it in the past.

Now an extension of your #2 are people who look down their noses at the rest of us. We have a certain posse of posters on my local board who seem to have visited every Michelin-starred restaurant in the world, or at least like to brag that they have. So when they're dining "at home" they're constantly ripping apart our restaurants, saying "I can get better food at 3-star [restaurant name] in [overseas foodie destination]" It's like they're constantly looking for trouble, or another excuse to name-drop yet another Michelin star. One guy likes to rip apart our Dim Sum places and says he gets better quality and value in Hong Kong. I think adding a $1000 plane ticket to the food bill makes that recommendation useless to most of us. Why they even bother eating out when at home I don't know. Probably because cooking their own food is beneath them...

[GraydonCarter]

The fellow who salts or peppers his food without first tasting it is closed-minded.

[TheHuntress]

Hahaha! I'd actually agree with this whole heartedly. A friend and I have always teased another friend for seasoning their food without tasting it first - and then we go on to tease them for being closed minded. We love them dearly, but this rule definitely applies.

[TexSquared]

Even worse is, after doing that they complain the food is too salty....

[TheHuntress]

Haven't come across that phenomena yet, but I do wonder at their insistence that they enjoy good food - how can you taste anything through all that salt?

[TexSquared]

I know, salt is a flavor enhancer but to excess, it masks flavor. I find McDonald's oversalts their fries. When I get "lucky" and manage to get an undersalted serving, I find it tastes much better -- I can taste the potatoes! I wouldn't want my fries without it, mind you, but put 1/2 what they have been and they'd have a better tasting product.

I'd extend Graydon's comment to include anybody who adds anything to their food before tasting. Whether it's salt, pepper, Mrs. Dash, Old Bay. Tony Chachere's, Tabasco sauce, crushed red pepper flakes, Thai chili oil, whatever. Who started that stupid tradition in full-service chains when the waiters offer freshly ground pepper (often with a grinder as big as a baseball bat!) mere seconds after serving the dish to the customer? I always decline it, taste the dish, and then if I want more pepper I'll grab that baseball bat from where they kept it, and season my plate myself. The waiters invariably have the grinders set to coarse (to make it easier for them), while I prefer a finer grind....

[sunshine842]

I agree with you 100% -- my ex used to dump Tabasco on everything on his plate...made me wonder why I bothered to season anything.

The only exception would be a salad, which is always delivered without pepper -- and I *love* some fresh ground pepper on a good green salad....so I'll almost always say yes to the pepper.

[TheHuntress]

I always wondered cracked pepper was offered as soon as a dish was set down in front of you. I hate asking waiters to hang on while I taste my food, but how am I supposed to know if I want pepper on my food if I haven't tasted it? But I would also happily extend the rule to seasoning your food with anything prior to tasting. It just seems so...pointless? Like sunshine842 my heart always sinks a little when someone seasons the food I've prepared without tasting it. I work hard to try and get the balance right and while it may not be to your taste could you pretty please try it first before dumping your condiment of choice on it?

[sunshine842]

personally, I find it rude -- as clear as if they flat-out told you "you're a lousy cook, and I really don't believe that I can trust you to season anything to my liking, so I have to bury it something else to render it even halfway edible"

Or as I mentioned upthread, a clear statement that your regular cook is completely useless in the kitchen and you season the daylights out of things to salvage it.

[ospreycove]

I like the Italian way of approaching how a dish is seasoned; there is no S&P on the patron's table (except for the salad course), since it is assumed the cook knows how the dish should taste. Most times I agree!!!

[sisterfunkhaus]

There are some genetic and biological issues for people when it comes to preferring or not preferring salt. I have low blood pressure and and am salt hound, no matter how good the food tastes. My doctor told me that many people with low blood pressure crave salt. People with dampened taste buds also tend to like more salt. It isn't always about being rude or inconsiderate. I have never in my life encountered a food, no matter how amazing, that met my level of salt preference. I do often explain my oversalting to hosts. I just tel them that I am a salt hound and that it is no reflection on their food. My husband, however, has never salted his food that I am aware of.

I would personally rather have someone pre-salt their food than taste it, then salt it. If they salt it first, I can assume that they are salt people. If they taste, then salt, I feel like the dish is no good.

[RedTop]

>>I would personally rather have someone pre-salt their food than taste it, then salt it. If they salt it first, I can assume that they are salt people. If they taste, then salt, I feel like the dish is no good.<<

Are you speaking of guests at your dinner table, sisterfunkhaus? If so, your final statement is faulty logic. People taught Manners and Etiquette would always sample a portion served to them before adding anything to it.

[piccola]

I'm in the same boat. My doctor straight out told me to eat saltier foods, especially after workouts or when I feel lightheaded.

Besides, I don't really eat packaged foods, so I skip a lot of sodium that way.

[GraydonCarter]

At a fine dining establishment, when I'm being served something special (let's say, for example, a Duck Confit) with a new girlfriend, I'll always ask the server for Ketchup and then watch her reaction. Of course the waiter always says, right away, sir, and then I have to stop him with a grin and a wink. They don't usually think it is very funny, but I amuse myself.

[plf515]

What drives me nuts is that wait staff will ask if you want pepper before you have tasted the food. And then stand there with the pepper mill. Put a pepper mill on each table!

[Tripeler]

The pepper mill thing is largely "theater"

[linguafood]

It's largely b/c of the "strange" disappearance of smaller pepper mills on tables in restaurants.

[TheHuntress]

Did you ever watch The Chaser's skit with cracked pepper? I still find it amusing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCFRbc...

[jvanderh]

Heh. Or is cooked for all the time by someone who doesn't believe in salting food. It took me like two years after leaving home to stop coating everything in a layer of salt.

[DavidA06488]

Exception: Eating at one of the fast-food chains, when salt and pepper hides the awfulness of the food. But seriously, I am one of those raised by a mother who literally had no sense of smell. I can say that she was in the running for the title of "Worst Cook in America". And we had to eat everything that was put on our plate. Vigorous salting and peppering helped to make anything somewhat more palatable. It is hard to overcome childhood imprinting, but I think I have overcome it at this point in my life - mostly. I do like eating in good restaurants, because they do use more salt and pepper in food than most of us do when cooking at home. I usually taste first, then season if need be now.

[mattstolz]

i dont think the "no salt before tasting" applies to something that we already can anticipate will need the salt, such as something we have experienced before

[KWagle]

FWICT, it's true that even foodie home cooks tend to undersalt their food (and overcook their meat.) If you don't want people dumping salt om what you cook, salt it correctly in the first place.

[pikawicca]

When I cook, I season as I go and salt to taste. I have a pretty low tolerance for salt, though, so I don't mind if diners add more at the table. Can't stand the taste of over-salted food.

[woodleyparkhound]

When I cook, I try to undersalt food so people can salt to taste at the table. I can't imagine being offended by someone putting salt on their food, whether or not I've cooked it. You can always add more salt; you can't take it away.

Reminds me of a story though... a few years ago, a friend of mine, an excellent cook, always put these ancient salt and pepper shakers on the table - the kind that you shake for 2 mins. and get 5 grains of salt. When I asked her why she didn't have functioning salt and pepper shakers, she said, "I'm trying to discourage that." I thought that was one of the most controlling things I'd ever heard.

[RedTop]

Indeed! +1

[KWagle]

She would've been peeved when I pulled a working salt shaker and pepper grinder from my bag. I would've been happy to see her go apoplectic and literally explode.

And it's unclear that someone who wants to disparage salt could be an excellent cook by my standards anyway. Maybe an excellent prep cook, I suppose.

[GraydonCarter]

My mother was placed on a no-salt diet so the rest of us suffered. There are many dishes (like scrambled eggs, for example) that taste better with the salt IN the food mixture rather than ON the food, so I've never really been one to add much salt after the dish is served.

[mattstolz]

some great food rules here! a couple of mine:

-if it tastes good, eat it! (thank you andrew zimmern... i would have missed so many delicious things if it wasnt for this!)
-if i can make it at home, i wont order it when out.
-national chains are a no-go. ESPECIALLY when travelling
-the more people in your party, the more dishes everyone gets to try!
-(related to above) ALWAYS try to coordinate with your party so that the same dish doesnt get ordered more than once!
-if you cant cook, expect that i will be doing the cooking when we are eating together.
-if its not worth the calories, it is NOT going in my mouth. i will also remove it if i deem it bad enough.

[EWSflash]

Never say never!

Unless it involves the brains or spinal cord of an animal... personal prejudice

[Terrieltr]

No sweet pickle relish. It does not belong in tuna salad, chicken salad or egg salad. In fact, it just plain does not belong.

[jmckee]

Another blanket statement that ignores the reality of how some people like to eat. Sometimes sweet pickle relish is just fine in the dishes you mention. My mother used it on occasion and her food was awesomely delicious.

[FoodFuser]

I take please in my pickles
whether sweet, whether dilled.
They crunch 'pon consumption
Whether whole, or as relish.

I believe it is good
to take thrill and take tickle
from something so simple
as pickle.

[jvanderh]

The thread asked what are your irrefutable food rules. This person isn't telling you what you can and can't eat. There is nothing to be argued about. He or she never enjoys sweet pickle relish in anything. Neither do I.

[Terrieltr]

And if you want to eat it, fine. Just please don't bring it into my home. There's some strange "not everyone tastes it" chemical in sweet pickles which I find revolting. As in "My tongue is about to revolt and try and overthrow the rest of me."

You know, I never do first dates at Italian places, but I'm not condemning the OP.

[GraydonCarter]

The other day I stopped at Sam's Deli on Erie Street in Havre de Grace, MD, and my turkey sub used high quality ingredients - boars head - and the bread was fresh and soft... but he used sweet pickles. I saw the jar, it was a gigantic jar of Mt Olive Sweet Pickle slices. "Sam" and wife are Asian immigrants, so I don't know if he doesn't know the difference, if he prefers them, or if this is the way the previous owner stocked pickles. For all I know, this is a local tradition.

[jvanderh]

*shudder* if so, it must be very local. I've never seen it in Baltimore (although, the pickles on Middle Eastern pita wraps are closer to sweet pickles).

[laliz]

I agree 100%. No sweet pickle relish in egg salad or tuna salad. What was the other one? Oh yea, chicken salad ~~ NEVER

[cgarner]

No sweet pickle relish. It does not belong in tuna salad, chicken salad or egg salad. In fact, it just plain does not belong.
***********************************************************************************************************

I think I just found the one food rule for myself that I find Irrefutable!~

[foiegras]

My sister and I had an unfortunate experience involving hot dogs and relish as children. She doesn't eat hot dogs to this day, and I don't eat relish. I do, however, chop sweet pickles for tuna salad, etc. Like nuts, I believe pickles are better chopped fresh.

[RedTop]

Never offer ketchup at breakfast.

[pj26]

But what do you have with your sausages or hash browns?

[RedTop]

Sausage (pork) gets dipped into the egg yolk. Hash browns or home fries get only a bit of salt.

[mattstolz]

you havent had hash browns till youve had them smothered with salsa.

runny egg yolks are good too.

and maple syrup

[Terrieltr]

Hopefully, not all at the same time.

[mattstolz]

salsa and egg yolks is a good combo, and maple and egg yolks is a good combo!

havent attempted combining maple and salsa yet though...

[jmcarthur8]

Hash browns get sour cream!

[DavidA06488]

Salsa or ketchup ( little) with hash browns is a yum for me, generally. But when I go to my local diner, and they do my hash browns until they are crispy (they know me), then they only need a little salt and pepper, especially if I have (good) corned beef hash with 2 eggs sunny-side-up on top. The applicable rule: Hash browns need to be crispy, crusty to be truly good.

[mattstolz]

agreed!! but IMO, home fries top hash browns every time. the home fries with salsa is the reason that i go to First Watch (since i have now replicated their banana granola pancakes with extreme success)

[WNYamateur]

Nothing served as "salad" should require a knife to eat. Make an exception for a wedge of iceberg if you like that sort of thing, but any time I have to use a knife in a salad, I think that somebody in the kitchen's getting lazy.

[sunshine842]

don't order salad in Europe -- you're expected to fold (not cut!) the leaves with your knife as you secure them on your fork.

[Juniper]

1. No wine with Asian food. No, not even white wine. I'm Asian and in my eyes, Asian food goes with beer, rice/grain alcohols, and tea. Besides, most wines you find at Asian restaurants are plonk anyway.

2. Bananas are not edible. The way they taste and smell, their texture, and the way it sounds when people chew it are what nightmares are made of.

3. Gelatin = bad. I don't like it as thickener in yogurts, I don't like it as Jell-O, and I sure as heck hate aspic. Nothing good has ever come from the use of gelatin in/as food.

[jvanderh]

Hehe. I wonder if you'd find agar less objectionable than gelatin. It doesn't have that stinky animal smell that unflavored gelatin seems to have.

[scubadoo97]

Yeah, isn't that Asian?

[jvanderh]

Yep. When I've bought it, it's been from the Asian grocery.

[Juniper]

Yeah, Asian or no, I find agar just as revolting as gelatin. Ick...

[mattstolz]

#2: IMO green bananas and well ripened bananas are two completely different fruits. the smell, texture, and taste of a green banana is gross to me, but nothing beats a well ripened banana in my eyes. if its a texture thing, you should try them frozen and dipped in chocolate or peanut butter!

[Juniper]

Many people have tried many tactics to get me to consume bananas. My sense of taste, smell, and feel never allow me to enjoy it in any form or manner.

Plantain, on the other hand, is awesome. Don't ask -- I don't understand it either.

[sunshine842]

Green plaintain, like tostones, or ripe plantano, sliced thick and sauteed til golden and stick?

Green I can get my head around - it's starchy and savoury and not like banana.

Ripe, I don't figure...but it's just the way it is. (I used to work with a woman who would eat caprese salad til she fell off the chair, but would Flip. Out. if she had a slice of tomato on a sandwich)

[Juniper]

Both. Yep. Both. As I said, don't ask. I don't understand it either. :)

[LePetitChefCanadien]

I find the texture of bananas much better when they are frozen. It's a nice alternative to ice cream in the summer, especially with some peanut butter or dark chocolate. Mmmmm.
(And this is coming from someone who used to hate bananas. Except in banana bread...)
It won't help much if you hate the taste, though.

[sisterfunkhaus]

No canned veggies except tomatoes (I use fresh when they are in season) and occasionally, beans. I will eat frozen corn and peas year-round. Otherwise, I mostly eat veggies and fruit when they are in season, or at least look and smell fairly edible. I am a fresh produce snob.

I also do not like reduced fat anything except for milk and Greek Yogurt b/c, generally, the 2% versions of those are pretty unadulterated.

Real cheese only,for the most part. I will use a deli-style American on grilled cheese only. I do use orange cheddar and jack cheese on a home-style casserole (which is rare) or on nachos. Other than those apps, I like good cheese in small amounts on food. Nothing worse than getting a salad where they put a generic shredded cheese on it. There is generally a perfect cheese for most any application (especially a salad.)

No canned meat ever.

No cooking wine, ever. They make small bottles of really inexpensive wines that are good for cooking if you don't drink or don't have a big big bottle on hand. You can also freeze wine in sandwich bags in 1/4 cup portions for cooking and it works far better than salt ladened cooking wine.

No powdered bullion. I like Better than Bullion when I don't have fresh stock, but powdered is pretty vile to me.

No organ meats. Many are full of toxins, really fatty, etc... And, many taste too strong for my tastes.

No steaks cooked longer than medium. Anything beyond medium makes for a tough steak. I hate dining with someone who orders a steak well-done, then sends it back b/c it is tough. Of course it is tough when you cook it well-done.

I am sure there are more.

[piccola]

You can freeze wine?? Is it only good for cooking after or is it still drinkable?

[sunshine842]

Please don't drink frozen wine. It's only for cooking.

[piccola]

Duly noted. :)

[jvanderh]

I am totally on board with your rules, except I respectfully request an exemption for canned corn :-)

[gerndel]

Never condemn something until you've tasted it
Don't f--- with people that handle your food
Only frozen meals should be the ones you froze yourself

[jvanderh]

That second thing is a great rule!

[whs]

eat local tomatoes in summer

[LePetitChefCanadien]

And local peaches, strawberries and raspberries. And figs if you can get them. In fact, just eat as much local food as you can. It really does taste better as well as being better for the environment.

[constantreader]

Just one-No artificial sweeteners, ever. Saccharine, aspartame, stevia-I hate 'em all. They have that aftertaste.

[LePetitChefCanadien]

I see what you mean, but stevia's not really artificial. I have a stevia plant in a pot on my back deck (it's miraculously not dead despite the first snowfall of the year a few days ago) and if I wanted to I could just pick the leaves, dry them in the sun and grind them up to use them. Stevia's not artificial, but I still won't use it until more research is done to prove it's absolutely safe. Until then it's just an ornamental plant. No comment on how it tastes since I haven't eaten any yet...

[sunshine842]

I'm with you -- Stevia in my coffee was just about the worst experiment EVAR -- this weird, chemically/grassy taste. Pleh.

I figure I'll cut that 16 calories out of something else -- but leave me and my coffee alone.

[jvanderh]

This is one of my irrefutable food rules. I will take the calories out of everywhere else first- you can have the sugar and half an ounce of cream from my coffee when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[foiegras]

Amen.

I've tried stevia and it tasted weird to me--a licorice taste? Whatever it was, I had to immediately drown it out.

[MonMauler]

Gotta agree with you guys on the stevia. I keep a little herb garden on my balcony, and this year I grew a stevia plant. I tried it raw and really did not like the flavor. I couldn't figure out what I'd do with it or what to add it to. So it went unused. Next year, I will not be growing stevia.

[Ninevah]

ALWAYS wear gloves when cutting a jalapeno or anything hotter. ALWAYS. I keep a box of latex gloves in the kitchen for times such as this.

I have rubbed my eyes, gone to the restoom, touched the baby after cutting peppers. Not cool. Also, I personally think it's nasty to smell like three day old garlic.

[LePetitChefCanadien]

YES. Definitely wear gloves. Especially if you wear contact lenses. Washing your hands 5 or 6 times before taking out your contacts doesn't take away all the chili's oils.
I learned that one the hard way.

[guilty]

Don't eat (or drink) anything blue. Aleve is the only exception, but it's not food so technically my rule sill holds.

And PotatoHouse, we wouldn't have made it past the first date; I often eat salad for dinner.
Too bad; we could have been magic.

[LePetitChefCanadien]

I don't eat pre-packaged sushi. I just don't trust it. I've had bad experiences with it it the past. If someone else wants to eat it, I have no problem with that, but I'll pass thank you very much.
(There is one exception to this rule: If every thing else available is less pleasant than a lousy california roll, I will buy the premade sushi, so It's not really an irrefutable rule...)
Same goes for low-quality sushi restaurants note: I said "low-quality", not "cheap". They're two different things).
If you're going top eat sushi, you'd better do it right. Why take risks with raw seafood?

[EarlyBird]

- Don't eat barbecue at a place that doesn't specialize in barbecue.
- Don't use "low fat" cheese, etc., just use less/none of the real thing.
- Decant your wine.
- Indulge in really good wine/spirits, but not "great" wine/spirits. No, you can't tell the difference beyond a certain point, and you're just paying too much.
- Always keep canned tomatoes, onions, garlic, chicken stock and frozen peas on hand.
- No veal. A hearbreaker I know, but think of the baby calves. Too cruel.
- Don't eat in your car.
- Eat on real plates whenever possible, not paper or plastic plates.
- Do the shopping if you're doing the cooking.
- Buy the expensive, high quality chickens at Whole Foods. They are worth it.
- Absolutely NO flavored coffee or flavored "creamers"!

[RedTop]

>>- Don't eat in your car.<<
Gawd, did you make my day with this Irrefutable Food Rule.

[foiegras]

+1 on the real plates. There are no paper or plastic plates in my house, and there never will be. What's the dishwasher for, people?! (I also have lots of vintage dinnerware that I wash by hand.)

Also--the dishes don't have to be done before I go to bed if I don't feel like it (and I don't).

[pdxgastro]

There is a family on a reality show with lots of kids. You always see them eating on paper and with plastic utensils! Even when a famous person came to visit. Can you imagine the landfills of garbage they produce?! They built a new home with a professional kitchen. So why can't they use real dishes & cutlery? WTF.

[mattstolz]

maybe they recycle?

just sounds like a lot of money spent on plates and utensils! wonder if it offsets the cost of running the dishwasher

[foiegras]

You can recycle the plasticware, but that paper is now trash. Surely some of the kids could set the table and load the dishwasher. I set the table and washed the dishes by hand ;)

[pj26]

Just wondering, do you eat lamb? Are little sheep ok to eat but not little cows?

[cgarner]

Most people do not eat veal because it is raised in confinement whereas lamb is not.

[pj26]

It used to be but not so much any more. At least in the UK, where crates have been banned for a number of years, although not sure what the regulations are in the US.

[foiegras]

I assure you the situation is very much different in the US. It's not just how the animals are treated, which is bad enough, but also the toxic mess they're fed.

[pikawicca]

It's pretty easy to find "pink" veal in the U.S. these days, which is not crated.

[EarlyBird]

Yes, I do eat cute little lambs. As cgarner states, lambs are not confined like veal are. Also, unlike veal, lambs are not force-fed milk and milk products, and done so well beyond the time they are meant to eat grass and feed.

[Chris VR]

Not all veal is raised that way. The veal I get from my meat farmer is a "byproduct" of the dairy business, and is not confined or force fed anything. I've seen such veal called rose or rosy veal.

[DavidA06488]

I ,too, eat little lambs, and veal and foie gras and lots of pork. Enough with the sensitivity to the feelings of the creatures. (I don't mean to diss you, EarlyBird, but rather the concern about eating animals). We are omnivores, and have been so for millenia. Get over it folks. The only food I won't eat is lutefisk, and yes, I have eaten it. Never again. The preparation leaves a lot to be desired.

[EarlyBird]

I don't feel dissed, David, nor am I judging you. I am the first the admit that I am an absolute hypocrite on the subject of eating animals, factory raised or otherwise.

That said, as I become aware of certain very unnatural and cruel ways by which some animals are raised, I am starting to get queasy about my contribution to it. My distaste for the farming of veal in the way I described is not about sensitivity to "feelings," but horror at what is the equivalent of a life of torture for veal calves. And all for why? To feed me? No, just to feed me with extra panache.

Let me tell you, there is no replacement for veal stock in stews, sauces, and so on. But denying myself the production of my one annual batch of the stuff is one of very few concessions I am willing to make.

[foiegras]

I thought one of the fundamental principles of this thread was respect for others' food rules?

I'm an omnivore, I am concerned with 'the feelings of the creatures,' and I think it's highly appropriate to bring one's ethics to the table and the grocery store.

The reality is that almost every human of every eating persuasion is indirectly causing 'harm' to other living creatures (human and non) by being part of the food chain. There are people who eat only what they themselves have gleaned, and that is probably the one way not to do so, and not everyone can do that.

That said, I am conscious of where the food I buy comes from. I buy cage-free eggs, and do not buy factory-farmed meat. I probably sometimes eat it at restaurants. When I see signs of trouble, though (like broken bones in chicken), I don't return to that restaurant.

There is a slaughterhouse scorecard that is all about 'the feelings of the creatures.' McDonald's and other major fast food chains buy beef only from sources that are using the scorecard, and therefore likely you do too. It measures whether the system is upsetting the animals, or whether they are able to move through it peacefully. I suspect the successful use of this scorecard enhances the quality of the beef we're eating.

[laliz]

don't eat baccala either, trust me.

[Firegoat]

Only one. No eating live octopii. Everything else is fair game.

[DavidA06488]

I haven't tried that. What is it like?

[mokie]

Wiggles all the way down?

[subal]

Do not eat live octo!
All octo have venomous saliva to some degree!
It may be small enough to not poison you, but some species will cause a localized case of gangrene.
Think of a gangrene throat!

[pj26]

Live razor clams are a bit like that - wiggling down your throat. Tried it once, won't be doing it again.

[sunshine842]

but grilled with a little olive oil? Oh, gimme gimme gimme.

[JReichert]

1) If God didn't make it, I ain't eating it.

That rule pretty much takes care of everything carcinogenic - dyes, Mickey D's, crazy chemicals, etc. Also led to my husband's 60-lb weight loss and me fitting back into my high school jeans.

2) I won't use microwaves, and leave the room when they're being used.

3) I limit my sugar to minimally processed sources, like honey, maple syrup, sugar in the raw, etc.

4) Steak medium-rare, always. : )

5) Shop local and buy organic much as my grocery budget allows.

[linguafood]

Good thing you're not agnostic or atheist. You'd be pretty hungry.

[Firegoat]

Crap. Bees are God? Who knew?

[linguafood]

Buzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[JReichert]

Yeah yeah, ya'll know what I mean. : ) Eating naturally has really improved my health - AND my overall mood. It just so happens at a lot of the food that is healthiest for you is also pointed out in the Bible as the ideal meal plan.

But I'm not here to debate, so I'll shelve the theoretical talk.

[KWagle]

So you need that classic tome _What Would Jesus Eat?_. :-|

And I guess you don't get to enjoy molecular gastronomy. :-(

[foiegras]

I think it's actually called The Loaves and Fishes Diet ;)

I do not use the microwave in my kitchen, but I do use them at work since there's no alternative.

Even the oldest cooking methods (grilling and baking) create carcinogens tho ...

[JReichert]

Yes, to a point - char on meat, etc. - but the really blatant additions, usually man-made junk, are the ones I take extra care to avoid. I hadn't heard of 'What Would Jesus Eat?', I'll have to check that out, thanks!

[foiegras]

OMG, I thought you were kidding, and maybe you were ... but there is a real book called What Would Jesus Eat? The Ultimate Program For Eating Well, Feeling Great, And Living Longer. "This comprehensive eating plan examines Scripture and reveals what we know Jesus ate and what we can confidently infer He ate." I wonder if it explains how to turn water into wine for the authentic 'What would Jesus drink?' experience ...

[mokie]

One of those organic purchases should be the honey. Most of what you find on the store shelves has the living daylights processed out of it.

[JReichert]

Agree. I use the 'regular' honey as a substitute for sugar in my breads, and use raw honey - or as raw as possible - for eating.

[Cactus Wren]

No "low-fat" or "reduced-fat" or "fat free" versions of ingredients that in their genuine versions are fat-based. Sour cream is made out of CREAM: therefore there is no such thing as "fat-free sour cream". Mayonnaise is made out of egg, oil, and lemon juice: thus, similarly, there is no such thing as "reduced-fat mayonnaise", and anything claiming this title is not mayonnaise.

No Hungry Girl recipes.

[RedTop]

+1

[BananasFoster]

+2. Also, condiments are always okay, esp. ketchup! I hate when you just want to put ketchup on your eggs or hot sauce on your chicken parmesan and someone stops you with a look or a comment. Don't yuck my yum, people!

[Davwud]

Taste trumps all.

DT

[DavidA06488]

Here's one that I just remembered:
NO reconsttuted powdered skim milk.

[foiegras]

My rule goes a bit further ... no powdered milk crosses my threshhold.

I grew up in Michigan where there was a PCB/beef contamination scandal at the time. (A manufacturer of both feed and fire repellants knowingly sold feed contaminated with toxic fire repellants.) My mother bought powdered milk only, because it wasn't local. I put myself in charge of making it, because if I didn't, it would have lumps. If there's anything worse than reconstituted powdered milk, it's lumpy reconstituted powdered milk.

[DavidA06488]

Actually, your rule is mine as well. I've never had lumpy reconstituted powdered milk, but I can imagine, and that does seem to make it worse. In my case, it was the opposite probl
em. In my early years, before my family moved to CT, we lived in the Southwest in an area where fresh milk was scarce. My mother made powdered skim milk, but made it thinner by adding less than the recommended amount of milk per quart of water. Even as a child, I knew it should taste better than that. I thought I had died and gone to heaven when we moved East, and I tasted milk fresh from the local cows, and locally grown fruits and vegetables. I think my appreciation for food began then.

[pdxgastro]

What century was it and where in the Southwest could you not get fresh milk?

[DavidA06488]

Believe it or not, around 1950 there were some of us alive in New Mexico. I realize that dates me as older than the hills, but the US has come a long way since then in terms of the range and freshness of food available.

[KWagle]

New Mexico didn't have dairy cows in 1950? Huh. I guess it's really good to be living in the present.

[sunshine842]

New Mexico had dairy cows in 1950 (a limited number, as dairy cows are not typically desert-dwelling animals)-- what they didn't have was a system by which it was possible to deliver fresh milk to all the corners of the state before it went bad -- be that due to a lack of electricity, refrigerated transportation, or some combination of the two -- there were plenty of areas of the US that didn't have refrigeration, electricity, air conditioning, or the internet in 1950.

[DavidA06488]

I lived in Albuquerque, the largest city in the state, but you are right re the problems of food refrigeration and transportation at that time. Glad I live now, though we have our own food problems brought on by the modern food supply system. Rule: Be grateful for what we have, but be careful.

[FoodFuser]

This Okie sees abundance of waves of good dairy cows
who give forth the refreshment of beverage milk
and also potential of become of their curds.

[laliz]

FoodFuser, I just love you

[foiegras]

Honestly, there is no way to make reconstituted powdered milk taste good. The problem with it is the sweetness (OK, the major problem)--maybe that's what she was trying to counteract.

Sometimes I got local whole goats' milk, and however gamey it might be, it was love.

[DavidA06488]

Thanks for the attempt to attribute a positive spin to what she did, but as we said, she could make the buffalo on a nickel squeek (if you can find a buffalo head nickel anymore).

[freia]

No:
1) Liver -- once I understood exactly WHAT the liver does, I couldn't stomach it. Not liver pate, not liver anything.
2) Brains or organ meat -- BSE has creeped me out, making brains off the menu
3) No shellfish -- I'm sorry but lobsters look like giant insects to me and they eat the crap off the bottom of the ocean floor and you eat it with butter and all you taste is the butter, so ditch the lobster and make a great butter-based dish if you want to eat butter. Same goes for crabs. Exoskeletons are God's way of saying "KEEP OUT" IMHO.
4) No cake mixes, no premade cookie dough, no frozen cakes -- it takes just a few minutes more to make from scratch so that's what I do.
5) No frozen meals -- can't stand the salt and the taste and lets face it, if I can't come up with a meal in 20 minutes from scratch, then I need to reconsider my pantry staples
6) Tofu. I'm not going to eat something that tastes only of what I cook it with. All that effort to prep it could be spent better on beef (mmmm) that actually has a distinct flavor. 'Nuff said...
7) No complaining! I'll cook all of the above, and serve it happily to DH and/or guests if that is what he has a hankering for. I make great mussels steamed in white wine. Apparently. And a great liver and onions. Apparently. And if I'm served any of this at a dinner party, well, I'll smile and hunker down. I don't know if that invalidates the premise of "irrefutable food rules" but these rules are pretty much what I follow at home.
And don't hate on number 3, I'm just being honest LOL...

[DavidA06488]

Freia, I don't hate on #3, and lobsters are the ocean's cockroaches, but they sure taste good, as do shrimp and crab. Brains are off my list since mad cow disease in Europe creeped me out. Other organ meat (sweetbreads, kidneys) are yummy IMHO. I'm with you on 4 - 7. I'm not with you on #1, but to each his/her own. Bon appetit.

[freia]

:)

[jvanderh]

After a lifetime of eating and enjoying crustaceans, I seem to have suddenly developed a pretty severe crab allergy, which totally bums me out. #3 made me chuckle and feel a little better :-)

[teflontom]

1) Try anything new once, especially when traveling. You may be inspired.
2) Plant a garden. If nothing else, some fresh herbs.
3) Have no fear in the kitchen ( other then safety and sanitary )
4) ALWAYS have seafood on Chrismas Eve, at least 3 different dishes, or as many as 12.
5) Make your own bread, make some fresh cheese, roll out some pasta.

SO MUCH FOOD AND SO LITTLE TIME.....!

Now the "don'ts"
1) When visiting a resto, check the bathrooms BEFORE you order , if they're funky, get out.

2) No margarine, what is that stuff?

3) No chicken. Any way shape or form. I have lived in the country my whole life and there are no filthier animals on the farm. I know I will get some disagreements on this , all I can say is if you have the chance visit a chicken house, you will understand why.

As an afterthought I was reading the posting on the farmed fish, and in particular the discussion about "farmed oysters". My only exposure to oyster farming has been in Cape Cod bay ( Wellfleet ). So I would like some feedback to what exactly defines farmed oysters vs. farmed salmon or shrimp.

[sunshine842]

Love your "do" list.

as far as farmed oysters and mussels, the naysayers might want to take a trip to Normandy and Brittany, where the farmed bivalves are a.may.zing, and have been farm-raised for generations.

[teflontom]

I've never had french oyster, but saw Bourdain show years ago where visited Brittany. He said that a very long time ago the oyster population was wiped out by some water born bacteria. So they imported seed from the U.S. Cape Cod bay, Wellfleet to be specific. I have Wellfleet oysters every time we visit and they too are amazing. Don't miss the Oyster Fest in October each. As a matter of fact over the years we have become friendly with farmers as we always stay at villas on the water. At low tide the farmers come in and harvest, rotate and set seed. I see no harm to the environment in thier procedures and sustainability.

[DavidA06488]

I agree re sustainability. Much of what differentiates oysters from one place vs another is the milieu in which they are grown, the nutrients. Kind of like the difference between freerange vs factory chicken.

[FoodFuser]

There be do's and be don'ts
In the farming of both chickens and oysters.

One with a cluck, upon laying of egg
One with constant of gulp that becomes a good bivalve.

Both, whether clucking or gulping,
Find their space in my kitchen.

Just my own take, surely refutable,
upon chickens and oysters.

[Terrieltr]

The "No margarine" rule is going on my list. Nasty stuff.

[josephnl]

One should NEVER drink red wine with fish, nor drink white wine with red meat. Anyone who does so has committed a food felony!!!

Obviously, I'm kidding. There are no rules when I comes to taste. Certainly, I don't like a very well-done steak, or a dried out piece of fish, but I know others who do. Who is to say that my preference is correct, preferable, or more informed? Certainly not me!

[laliz]

I LOVE THIS THREAD

[Puffin3]

No cottage cheese, no sour cream, no margarine, no tofu, no restaurants, no eating at the same table with anyone wearing a ball cap.

[linguafood]

No sour cream, no tofu, no *restaurants*?

My god, that list is hilarious!

[TexSquared]

Maybe some people prefer to eat exclusively at home and never go to a restaurant? That or the poster meant to add a word before it, like "chain" or "faux Japanese" or "eatertainment"....

[Puffin3]

Are there any foods you don't care to eat? I forgot, I also will not eat at a table with anyone who is obviously drunk. Many years ago I was at such a table and the drunk threw a glass at a young woman and it shattered. Her face was scarred for life.

[mattstolz]

well you certainly sound like someone i would enjoy dining with...

[Puffin3]

Yeah you're right I'm not much fun to be with in restaurants. That's why I don't eat in them any more. I spare the wait staff having to know what's on the menu and the cooks don't have to worry about preparing/seasoning even simple dishes properly. And I can use the money instead to buy fresh caught halibut for tonight's dinner recipe from Keller's 'French Laundry Cookbook' (P 144) and a nice bottle of Pinot Gris. And if I don't go to a 'family' restaurant I can spare myself the added flavor nuance from the plastic bag the vegetables were nuked in.

[mattstolz]

curious for why "no restaurants"

[Puffin3]

I stopped going to restaurants years ago because I used to deliver my fresh caught fish to them and so I had occasion to go into many kitchens. I didn't care for what I saw. I'm not going into any details because then my posts will likely be deleted. Recently I made one exception when my daughter invited me to a Dim Sum restaurant in Victoria I used to take her to starting when she was a little girl. I really enjoyed the experience and will go again probably. I have a long past with this restaurant and I was in the kitchen many times. The staff are so busy and focused every second they don't have time to mess with anyones food. And besides there is ALWAYS an owner some where watching every move every staff member makes. LOL As far as any other restaurant 'fine dining' or 'family style' forget it. Let's just say I don't recommend any one goes into a restaurant and complains about the food being undercooked/over cooked. Nuf said.

[woodleyparkhound]

As my father used to say, "Ignorance is bliss ... and I'm happy as a lark."