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Suggestions for a Dim Sum first timer?

a
aal00 Sep 1, 2011 10:34 PM

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit that I and a number of my friends have never had Dim Sum. Naturally the rest of our friends think that we're insane, so we plan to rectify the situation over the long weekend. Unfortunately, most of us are recent college grads, and therefore broke. Most of the suggestions I've seen for Dim Sum are along the lines of, "X is fantastic but expensive", which sadly won't cut it.

We're also hoping to make this the first stop on a day trip into the city, so proximity to public transit- especially BART- is a plus.

Lastly, if it makes any difference, we'll have along at least one friend fluent in Mandarin, though given the way I understand Dim Sum to be served I'm not sure if it that's relevant.

Is there any chance that SF has a restaurant that would be a good fit?

  1. a
    aal00 Sep 4, 2011 01:50 PM

    Well, after consulting with the others we ended up at City View with a much smaller group than anticipated. The smaller party turned out to be perfect, since it gave all of us the chance to try everything that we picked up. Thank you all for your advice on etiquette, what to look for, what to try etc., we were much more at ease given some idea of what we were doing. I'll definitely have to try some of the other restaurants you've recommended in the near future!

    -----
    City View Restaurant
    662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

    17 Replies
    1. re: aal00
      The Librarian Sep 4, 2011 02:30 PM

      So please tell what you got and especially liked. I love going for dim sum. We went to City View with my cousins, and, unfortunately they're not big eaters and we were splitting the bill, so we were hungry when we left. Tragic!

      1. re: The Librarian
        a
        aal00 Sep 4, 2011 03:14 PM

        The pork sticky buns and the shrimp and cilantro dumplings were my favorites. I'd also never had the red bean paste sesame balls fresh before, which was delightful. There were a number of other dumplings we tried that I can't identify out of hand, though the only really memorable one had a spiky fried coating and a potato / vegetable filling of some kind. I do recall an odd dumpling that I believe they called something like "Ginger balls", which were served with a red sauce and came in (read: stuck to) little aluminum tins. That and the sticky rice in lotus leaves were the only disappointments, though I certainly wouldn't call either bad. A lovely experience, over all.

        1. re: aal00
          Robert Lauriston Sep 4, 2011 03:28 PM

          Spiky fried coating could be taro dumplings:

          http://www.chow.com/photos/240910

          1. re: Robert Lauriston
            a
            aal00 Sep 4, 2011 04:15 PM

            Aha, NOT potato then. Not half bad, either.

            1. re: aal00
              Robert Lauriston Sep 4, 2011 04:28 PM

              Taro dumplings can be really good when they're hot, pretty much always gross otherwise. Yank Sing's are the best.

              -----
              Yank Sing
              49 Stevenson St Ste Stlv, San Francisco, CA 94105

          2. re: aal00
            j
            jman1 Sep 4, 2011 11:50 PM

            Perhaps you're not the one to ask, but are lotus leave wrappers pretty standard for sticky rice or is some other kind of leaf more often used?

            1. re: jman1
              Robert Lauriston Sep 5, 2011 09:13 AM

              I've never seen anything but lotus leaf. It's not hard to get as it's dried.

              1. re: jman1
                s
                sfbing Sep 5, 2011 09:32 AM

                Depends on the sticky rice application. Ngoh mai gai (which are what you usually get in dim sum places) are wrapped in lotus leaves. Zongzi are wrapped in bamboo leaves. Each leaf imparts a slightly different flavor.

                1. re: sfbing
                  Robert Lauriston Sep 5, 2011 09:56 AM

                  If you're talking about sticky rice in general, yeah, there are other dishes, but I've never seen anything but no mai gai at dim sum places.

                  1. re: Robert Lauriston
                    s
                    sfbing Sep 5, 2011 10:15 AM

                    There is also ngor mai faan, which is stir fried sticky rice without any wrapper.

          3. re: aal00
            Windy Sep 4, 2011 06:43 PM

            Glad it worked out, and that you're continuing your quest. I wonder what the ginger balls were.

            How much did it end up costing?

            1. re: Windy
              a
              aal00 Sep 5, 2011 11:13 AM

              Only about 50 or so for 3 people after tax and tip for just enough food to sate us. Certainly not cheap, but it didn't break the bank either.

              As for the "ginger balls", I've consulted some of my more knowledgeable friends and they were baffled as well. The world may never know...

              1. re: aal00
                Windy Sep 5, 2011 11:20 AM

                Thanks, good to know. I've found that with the exception of Yank Sing and Koi Palace, it's hard to spend $20 per person even in fancier places like Asian Pearl and City View. It's a little nerve wracking when you don't have a menu with prices, and the servers are pushing items onto your table.

                -----
                City View Restaurant
                662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                Asian Pearl
                3288 Pierce St, Richmond, CA 94804

                1. re: Windy
                  Robert Lauriston Sep 5, 2011 11:55 AM

                  On the other hand, at Y Ben House it would be hard to spend $20 for two.

              2. re: Windy
                c
                chocomel Sep 5, 2011 09:11 PM

                These ginger balls may be xiao long baos. They're sometime served in those tin flowers (which I think make them hard to eat), with the red vinegar sauce with strips of ginger. Is the inside of the dumpling soupy and meaty?

                1. re: chocomel
                  a
                  aal00 Sep 6, 2011 09:38 AM

                  ...actually, given my abysmal hearing, that IS probably what she said, and that does sound like what we were served. Now I feel silly.

                  1. re: aal00
                    Ruth Lafler Sep 6, 2011 02:37 PM

                    Don't feel silly! We all started somewhere. A question isn't silly if you learn something from it.

                    I'm glad your first (of many, hopefully) foray into dim sum was a success and that Chowhounders were helpful in making it so.

            2. bbulkow Sep 3, 2011 07:05 PM

              Tips on actually doing Dim Sum somwhere:

              1) At the better places, you will have to order a tea. Jasmine is a good first choice. Chrysanthamum is a little more interesting. If they have pu'er, that's good, although it gets oversteeped in a hurry. I don't know what the default is - probably oolong.

              2) You will order too fast, and then you'll see a bunch of really good stuff come out of the kitchen when you're stuffed. I would recommend doing no more than 1 dish per person, then stopping until everything is eaten, and taking stock of what you really liked.

              3) The cart ladies will be pushy. Some of them will take anything other than NO as license to unload their cart on you. Simply keep saying no if there's something you don't like the looks of.

              4) After a few visits, everyone ends up with some of their favorite dishes, so your goal is to just try lots of stuff. I would recommend getting almost every dumpling you can find. I really like the sticky rice chicken in a leaf thing; few other people do. Load up on dumplings. I'd consider shying away from too much duck or pork, but focusing on the dumplings. Try the taro paste thing, and har gow noodles. I always try to get some greens when I see them - just a dish of simple lightly fried greens. Complements the rest.

              Do not go and hold out for things you saw in your phone app, because you might be there for a very long time. Except you need steamed BBQ pork buns, that's a classic. Heck, they sell them at the Oakland Colosseum during baseball games.

              5) Also don't be shy about asking for your food cut. Often the cart ladies will save time and start trundling off; you have to scold them a little bit. If they ever ask you if you want the food cut, say yes.

              6) do not let them give you sweets until you are well and fully done with the savory. Then get some egg custard tart things, and the fried sesame seed with sweet bean paste in the middle.

              7) when it comes time to paying your check, you have to give it to one of the hovering people in the vests. There's a only slightly subtle heirarchy of the busboys, the cart ladies, the tier 1 managers, the tier 2 managers, the owner. Managers usually have vests, and they are the ones you wave at to get your check turned into a bill.

              Good luck! Don't stress. And --- for god's sake --- don't go with picky eaters. At the best places, it's hard to tell what kind of meat is in a given dumpling. If you have to ask, you shouldn't eat it.

              8 Replies
              1. re: bbulkow
                j
                jman1 Sep 3, 2011 09:14 PM

                While not particularly informed, I do enjoy some kind of pu-erh tea with dim sum (especially if I over eat, or items are a bit oily). I've had difficulty being understood if I ask for pu-erh (perhaps my pronunciation is off). I understand that the Cantonese call it bolay and that seems to work better. Otherwise, I say "red tea" and that sometimes works.

                BTW, don't Cantonese people say "yum cha" do express the concept of going out for dim sum?

                1. re: jman1
                  moto Sep 3, 2011 10:49 PM

                  cantonese has different sub-dialects (a huge population spread over very diverse physical geography) and you might be understood if you ask for pu erh by saying something closer to " p'o neigh " [ch'a is one word common to both standard chinese and cantonese].

                2. re: bbulkow
                  j
                  jman1 Sep 3, 2011 09:19 PM

                  Seems like some good advice, but some comments on my part.

                  Regarding sweet vs. savory, while Westerners like sweeter options at the end, I haven't observed Chinese making that distinction.

                  Unless someone is in charge, I like to agree to a rule that anyone (adult) at the table can take anything that they like. Don't try to ask for agreement from the entire table; it's often impossible and distracting. And, the servers will get impatient. Hopefully, most people will like most things and won't complain about an item they didn't enjoy.

                  1. re: jman1
                    The Librarian Sep 4, 2011 02:32 PM

                    That's a really great idea. It drives me nuts when people hem and haw about an item. It's not a life decision!

                  2. re: bbulkow
                    Stephanie Wong Sep 4, 2011 08:57 AM

                    Re: cart service -- I'd like to add that sometime hot items may have lingered too long and cooled off on an unheated cart.

                    Don't hesitate to ask if the item is still hot (particularly for fried items like the taro dumpling and turnip cakes as these can cool into leaden grease bombs).

                    1. re: Stephanie Wong
                      j
                      jman1 Sep 4, 2011 01:36 PM

                      Some friends try to position themselves at a table near where the carts enter from the kitchen. Is that a good strategy?

                      Also, even when a place is cart order, it seems that one can still ask for a particular item if it's not visible. Although, you might have to find someone who speaks your language.

                      1. re: jman1
                        drewskiSF Sep 4, 2011 02:12 PM

                        you can usually order specific items from the folks bbulkow describes as managers (7). the hovering people in vests that would also take care of your check..

                    2. re: bbulkow
                      Robert Lauriston Sep 4, 2011 10:20 AM

                      Personally I can't stand jasmine tea, which most dim sum places bring if you don't say anything. I always order black.

                    3. t
                      Thomas Nash Sep 2, 2011 02:12 PM

                      Y Ben is very cheap, has large tables, carts roll around from which you can pick by pointing, and it is reasonably good. I think it used to be better, and may still be better than on my last visit. For your purposes I think it is ideal. It is a huge barn like place, very popular with less than wealthy Chinese who come in to shop in Chinatown. At peak hours you might have to put your name on a list for a big table (seat 12).

                      Across the street is the excellent Dol Ho, but it is much smaller. I think you could get a table for 6 easily, but more than that might be a problem. Also very cheap, authentic.

                      At either place you need not speak Cantonese. Just smile and point. Mandarin and English will be of little use. You will be able to stuff your hungry selves and take home extras for well under $15/person, tax and tip included.

                      -----
                      Dol Ho
                      808 Pacific Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133

                      Y Ben House Restaurant
                      835 Pacific Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133

                      1. Robert Lauriston Sep 2, 2011 11:06 AM

                        East Ocean Seafood in Alameda is more bang for your few bucks than you'll get in SF. If you need close to BART, Legendary Palace.

                        -----
                        Legendary Palace
                        708 Franklin St, Oakland, CA 94607

                        East Ocean Seafood
                        1713 Webster St, Alameda, CA 94501

                        26 Replies
                        1. re: Robert Lauriston
                          a
                          aal00 Sep 2, 2011 11:18 AM

                          Interesting... a family friend used to rave about a dim sum spot in Alameda, I wonder if that could be the one...

                          1. re: Robert Lauriston
                            Windy Sep 2, 2011 11:21 AM

                            The food at City View is better than East Ocean, at least in my experience.

                            Once you get away from Yank Sing and Koi Palace, dim sum in the city isn't expensive.

                            -----
                            Koi Palace Restaurant
                            365 Gellert Blvd, Daly City, CA 94015

                            City View Restaurant
                            662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                            Yank Sing
                            49 Stevenson St Ste Stlv, San Francisco, CA 94105

                            1. re: Windy
                              Robert Lauriston Sep 2, 2011 11:40 AM

                              City View's good, but I didn't think the food was better than East Ocean or even Legendary Palace, and I think it might be a little more expensive. Plus the BART fare will add $5-6 a head.

                              Old Place Seafood is another possibility. REALLY cheap, tasty, high quality for the price, and they're friendly to English speakers. Excellent place for East Bay beginners on student budgets.

                              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/303905

                              -----
                              Old Place Seafood
                              391 Grand Ave, Oakland, CA

                              1. re: Robert Lauriston
                                Windy Sep 2, 2011 11:45 AM

                                Old Place sounds good but wins the award for worst name for a seafood restaurant.

                                Does it have better connotations in Chinese--like Legendary Palace?

                                1. re: Windy
                                  moto Sep 2, 2011 12:03 PM

                                  many Chinese restaurant names in ingles are not translations of the Chinese name for the establishment. the Old Place happens to be the Chinese name, so if that sounds inauspicious in ingles, call it by its Chinese name, Jiu Di-fang. in amerikan ingles, we use 'place' as a truncated 'place of business' or 'establishment', but the Chinese usage is generally more in the context of a geographical region, locality, or one portion of a whole, as in 'that place in act three of Hamlet'. the amerikan expression that resembles 'jiu di-fang' is the way we us the phrase 'the Old South'. 'di' is the ideogram for 'earth'

                              2. re: Windy
                                s
                                shanghaikid Sep 2, 2011 01:49 PM

                                haven't been to city view but been to great eastern. they use a check off list. very good dim sum. oh, ton kiang's pricey too.

                                old place seafood, i found to be old stuff, not fresh. dim sum didn't taste fresh to me.

                                1. re: shanghaikid
                                  Robert Lauriston Sep 2, 2011 06:41 PM

                                  Everything we had at Old Place was fresh. We went on the weekend, the place was pretty full, the kitchen if anything wasn't quite keeping up with demand.

                                  1. re: shanghaikid
                                    j
                                    jman1 Sep 3, 2011 02:01 AM

                                    Check list may be easier for first timers who may be intimidated by the carts and feel pressured to accept items.

                                    1. re: jman1
                                      Robert Lauriston Sep 3, 2011 08:26 AM

                                      Carts are fun and give you a better idea of what's available than a checklist, for which a beginner would really need a book or printout.

                                      You have to learn to say "no" sometime. I recommend rejecting all fried items, they're generally crappy compared with steamed.

                                      1. re: Robert Lauriston
                                        s
                                        shanghaikid Sep 3, 2011 08:57 AM

                                        while rejecting all fried items is an excellent guideline. i would make an exemption for the fried egg puffs i thought i saw at saigon seafood harbor.....

                                        1. re: shanghaikid
                                          bbulkow Sep 3, 2011 06:53 PM

                                          I usually have to get one of those fried shrimp balls.

                                          1. re: bbulkow
                                            s
                                            shanghaikid Sep 3, 2011 07:44 PM

                                            yep, it you "trust" the dim sum place, it's a good option, years ago i tried it at ton kiang, tasty, pricey with the dipping sauce.

                                2. re: Robert Lauriston
                                  s
                                  shanghaikid Sep 2, 2011 01:31 PM

                                  east ocean's dim sum is the de facto msg-infused offering. with due diligence, one can find better offerings in the same price range.

                                  1. re: shanghaikid
                                    Robert Lauriston Sep 2, 2011 06:44 PM

                                    Better in the same price range where?

                                    I haven't had better dim sum in the East Bay than at East Ocean except maybe at the public-transit challenged Hong Kong East Ocean in Emeryville, which I would not recommend for beginners anyway, and most places I've been have been worse. I have no idea what you mean by de facto.

                                    -----
                                    Hong Kong East Ocean Seafood
                                    3199 Powell St, Emeryville, CA 94608

                                    1. re: Robert Lauriston
                                      s
                                      shanghaikid Sep 2, 2011 08:33 PM

                                      Hong Kong East Ocean's dim sum is pricier than east ocean so i'm not comparing the 2.

                                      i consider mayflower in union city and saigon seafood harbor, richmond to be better than east ocean. they are in the same price range and they use less msg. freshness is also evident at my favs. arguably asian pearl in richmond and fremont would also qualifiy but i find the early dim sum at asian pearl to be leftovers from the day before.

                                      by de facto i am grouping east ocean and most dim sum restaurants as habitual and chronic msg users. most people know they use it but they go anyways.

                                      1. re: shanghaikid
                                        K K Sep 2, 2011 09:57 PM

                                        It's the same with Koi Palace, very MSG heavy.

                                        Zen Peninsula in comparison is not as heavy, and Asian Pearl Peninsula is the least heavy. Family thinks that Asian Pearl Richmond is superior to the Millbrae location. But then again dim sum is a very personal matter for many thus differing opinions.

                                        -----
                                        Koi Palace Restaurant
                                        365 Gellert Blvd, Daly City, CA 94015

                                        Zen Peninsula
                                        1180 El Camino Real, Millbrae, CA 94030

                                        Asian Pearl
                                        3288 Pierce St, Richmond, CA 94804

                                        1. re: K K
                                          tpc Sep 4, 2011 06:29 AM

                                          I have to agree with shanghaikid and K K, MSG is very bad. My grandmother died of CHINESE RESTAURANT SYNDROME, and she was only 93:

                                          http://health.nytimes.com/health/guid...

                                        2. re: shanghaikid
                                          Robert Lauriston Sep 3, 2011 08:27 AM

                                          The request here is for places close to BART.

                                          1. re: Robert Lauriston
                                            s
                                            shanghaikid Sep 3, 2011 08:51 AM

                                            i was responding to your request for comparative dim sum places and you didn't specific promixity to bart stations.
                                            btw, old place seafood and east ocean aren't near bart stations.

                                            fyi. oaktown's chitown is near bart. legendary palace and joy luck has reasonably priced dim sum. quality is inconsistent. stay away from gourmet as it isn't

                                            1. re: shanghaikid
                                              Robert Lauriston Sep 3, 2011 08:58 AM

                                              Old Place Seafood is 12 blocks from 19th St. BART. Not as convenient as Legendary Palace but cheaper and I think friendlier to clueless newbies.

                                              -----
                                              Legendary Palace
                                              708 Franklin St, Oakland, CA 94607

                                              Old Place Seafood
                                              391 Grand Ave, Oakland, CA

                                              1. re: Robert Lauriston
                                                drewskiSF Sep 3, 2011 09:14 AM

                                                Saigon Seafood Harbor in Richmond is about the same distance from El Cerrito BART as Old Place is from 19th St (almost a mile)

                                                Mayflower in Union City is much closer to a BART station than either of them
                                                http://www.bart.gov/stations/closest....

                                                -----
                                                Saigon Seafood Harbor Restaurant
                                                3150 Pierce St, Richmond, CA 94804

                                                1. re: drewskiSF
                                                  a
                                                  aal00 Sep 3, 2011 10:17 AM

                                                  Oh lord, I look away for half a day and I've gone and started the Holy Wars again...

                                                  HKEO looks like it's in an interesting spot, but we wouldn't be able to get there readily via BART and the bay-side location can't help with the already mentioned pricing.

                                                  Since SF is the goal of the day, I'm on the fence about the Oakland options, especially if we're going that far from the stations.

                                                  At this point I'm most curious about Dol Ho / Y Ben / City View since I also have business elsewhere in Chinatown that day.

                                                  -----
                                                  Dol Ho
                                                  808 Pacific Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133

                                                  City View Restaurant
                                                  662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                                                  1. re: aal00
                                                    Windy Sep 3, 2011 10:54 AM

                                                    Re: Dol Ho/ Y Ben/City View you have them in relative order of price and luxury. If you haven't been before, any of them will be fine.

                                                    1. re: aal00
                                                      Robert Lauriston Sep 3, 2011 11:19 AM

                                                      Dol Ho and Y Ben are practically across the street from each other so if one is too crowded you have an easy alternative.

                                                      http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/3160...

                                                      City View is relatively clean and upscale, not really the classic dim sum experience.

                                                      -----
                                                      Dol Ho
                                                      808 Pacific Ave, San Francisco, CA 94133

                                                      City View Restaurant
                                                      662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                                                      1. re: aal00
                                                        s
                                                        shanghaikid Sep 3, 2011 04:08 PM

                                                        great eastern at 649 jackson st. is one block over from dol hol/ y ben.
                                                        they have no cart service, just check list. .dim sum is very good.
                                                        great eastern is known for their seafood specialities.

                                            2. re: Robert Lauriston
                                              c
                                              cwujd1 Sep 6, 2011 07:29 AM

                                              We've had terrific experiences at both East Ocean and HKEO in the past month. The latter might have been a little more expensive but I think in the same ball park for similar items. HKEO offers more upper end items, though. For example, a modest plate of crispy suckling pig will set you back $18. But it will probably be the most delicious pig you ever had! HKEO is a combination of menu ordering and a few carts. So most items come to the table fresh from the kitchen. This is one place where the fried food is consistently great and practically greaseless. On a nice day, the view of the bay from the giant picture windows can't be beat. We hadn't been to East Ocean in Alameda for awhile and it was really, really good too!

                                        3. c
                                          charliemyboy Sep 2, 2011 10:30 AM

                                          Here's an article from the Chronicle that's a good introduction to dim sum, including photos so you can recognize items when they come by on carts--

                                          http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

                                          1 Reply
                                          1. re: charliemyboy
                                            a
                                            aal00 Sep 2, 2011 10:46 AM

                                            Wow, huge list. Thanks for the article!

                                          2. a
                                            aal00 Sep 2, 2011 09:50 AM

                                            I might also add that there will be at least six of us, possibly more, so seating is a concern as well.

                                            I'm not sure how dated some of the threads I've been browsing through are, but thus far City View Restaurant and Tian Sing Chinese Restaurant sound like they may be close to what I'm looking for. Is that an accurate assessment? And are there any gotchas in terms of time to arrive, menu, etc. for those restaurants?

                                            -----
                                            Tian Sing Chinese Restaurant
                                            138 Cyril Magnin St, San Francisco, CA 94102

                                            City View Restaurant
                                            662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                                            5 Replies
                                            1. re: aal00
                                              Windy Sep 2, 2011 10:19 AM

                                              City View is a good choice. It's not expensive, but not cheap (<$20 all in, unless you go crazy). I liked the variety of dumplings, but haven't been lately. It's also pretty and close in, and staff is friendly, if not necessarily English speaking.

                                              You might download a dim sum app on a smartphone to figure out what things are. Or just grab them off a tray.

                                              If you were willing to travel further, I eat regularly at S&T out on Noriega & 33rd Avenue. Last weekend, with tax and tip, dim sum came to $14 each. The food is delicious. Best combined with a trip to Ocean Beach or Golden Gate Park.

                                              When you say BART, do you mean you're coming from the East Bay? Because Millbrae has three or four solid dim sum choices within a mile of BART. Enjoy.

                                              -----
                                              City View Restaurant
                                              662 Commercial St, San Francisco, CA 94111

                                              S&T Hong Kong Seafood Restaurant
                                              2578 Noriega St, San Francisco, CA 94122

                                              1. re: Windy
                                                a
                                                aal00 Sep 2, 2011 10:23 AM

                                                Yeah, East Bay unfortunately. I'd seen a number of fantastic suggestions for South SF, Daly City, etc., but that's a bit more of a trek than we're prepared for given our other plans.

                                                Thanks for the tip on S&T, and on the smartphone app- wouldn't have even occurred to me.

                                                1. re: aal00
                                                  Windy Sep 2, 2011 10:29 AM

                                                  This one's .99. I've never tried it, but might be a good investment.
                                                  http://itunes.apple.com/app/yum-yum-d...

                                                  1. re: Windy
                                                    a
                                                    aal00 Sep 2, 2011 10:31 AM

                                                    Droid user, sorry.

                                                    1. re: aal00
                                                      drewskiSF Sep 2, 2011 11:29 AM

                                                      there's a couple including a free one in the Android market

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