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We're adults, aren't we??

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So, let's cut the baby talk. The word is "SANDWICH", not sammies or a variation thereof.

  1. Where did the nickname "sammie" come from? I only recently began seeing "sammie" in print. I've never heard a person call a sandwich a "sammie." Is it baby talk perhaps? Perhaps it is derived from "samwich?"

    26 Replies
    1. re: sueatmo

      Yes, I think so.

      1. re: sueatmo

        I blame Rachael Ray.

        1. re: acgold7

          you are giving her too much power.

          1. re: acgold7

            It might be used more frequently because of RR, but I heard people calling sandwiches "sammies" before RR was on national TV (and I don't live anywhere near NY where she was on local broadcast TV).

            1. re: mpjmph

              Oh, I know. I just blame her for everything evil.

              1. re: acgold7

                LOL!!!! Sorry, but I just think your comment is hilarious!

          2. re: sueatmo

            rachel ray calls them sammies...
            and her other "words"
            evoo
            stoup
            yum-o
            gb
            delish
            cool beans
            easy peasy...

            etc etc etc......

            also the rise of im/text speak...leads to shortened/abbreviated words

            1. re: srsone

              Forget delish and yum-o. And what is gb (no, don't tell me). But EVO, never fails to irritate.

              1. re: serious

                iirc gb is garbage bowl...

                which she now sells....

                i stopped watching her a long time ago...

              2. re: srsone

                "cool beans" went around as a fad clear back in the mid 90s.

                "easy peasy" is a British saying

                The rest of them make me want to reach into the television and smack her.

                1. re: srsone

                  My mother used to say "stoup" LONG before Rachael Ray but thankfully stopped using it a long time ago as well. And I used to say "cool beans" back in the 80s or so.

                  But like acgold7, I'll still blame RR for everything evil. (edited to remove the smiley face after I read bob96's comment below.)

                  1. re: LindaWhit

                    I agree with Linda Whit on putting t he blame on RR for all evil.

                    1. re: LindaWhit

                      I say "cool beans" now! Got it from a friend in the 90s, never heard it before then.

                  2. re: sueatmo

                    What grates is not some pending doom of the language as we know it, but the use of a a smiley face and totally silly diminutive variant. It is indeed the sound of children. Like 'zza or 'rooms or 'ritas or whatever else drunken frat boys and sorority girls decide to coin. Or the endless use of "amazing" (or "cute"), and not only by Tyler Florence.

                    1. re: bob96

                      ugh, yes -- have 'za with the 'rents was all the rage when I was in college, and even then it drove me bonkers.

                      But then, I spell out and punctuate text messages, too....

                      1. re: bob96

                        I think you meant to say "A-maay-zing".

                        There's the emphasis on the middle syllable which is meant to convey enthusiasm, but comes across to me as being incredibly insincere.

                        Mr Taster

                        1. re: Mr Taster

                          I think someone's been watching Tyler Florence...

                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                            I'm not sure who that is, but I'm sure you're right... someone, somewhere has probably been watching!

                            Mr Taster

                            1. re: Mr Taster

                              :) He's one of those TV chefs that says *uh-MAY-zing* all the time. Not to mention *fun-TASS-tik*.

                              1. re: inaplasticcup

                                Must be a Food Network guy? I haven't had cable since I returned from my travels in 2006 and have only occasionally missed it.

                                The most recent cooking show I've watched came from the LA public library-- they have all of the old Julia Child French Chef dvds, free for the asking!

                                Mr Taster

                                1. re: Mr Taster

                                  He is. Few programs would make me miss cable, too. But how cool is it that your library has all the Julia Child DVDs!

                          2. re: Mr Taster

                            my god, I'm flashing on Shelley Duvall in 'Annie Hall' vapidly declaring something "fantabulous"

                            1. re: hill food

                              LOL. I think the 'word' you are recalling from Shelly Duvall (in Annie Hall) was "Transplendent" (when describing her brush-with-greatness via a well known spiritual guru)... In the same film, a massive blowhard college professor was pontificating about Marshall McLuhan in a theater line behind Woody Allen and Diane keaton. Good times...

                              1. re: silence9

                                right right right "fantabulous was used somewhere else like 'Tales of the City"
                                transplendent IS.

                        2. re: sueatmo

                          Years ago, I heard Jamie Oliver referring to "sarnies". Maybe that's where it came from.

                          1. re: mnosyne

                            It's just British slang of a certain level (one that Oliver wasn't born into but affects).

                        3. I happen to agree with you 100 percent, but I recently got slammed pretty hard for commenting on someone else's sloppy usage -- I guess because it was aimed at a specific post. I guess people think the destruction of the language is cute. So be prepared for some blowback.

                          68 Replies
                          1. re: acgold7

                            Yes, but languages are constantly evolving and changing, thus destruction and reconstruction. English is the destruction form of Latin and others, no?

                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                              true, and that IS what makes them interesting, but there is a big difference between cross-pollination and decay.

                              1. re: hill food

                                Nice. I'm with you both, hill food and acgold7. I'm definitely not looking forward to reading books in text speak, if there are books in the future. And I wouldn't call English the 'destruction' of Latin. The argument there would be best served by looking at the differences between Old, Middle, and contemporary English. #Everthepedant.

                                1. re: Lizard

                                  Does English not borrow heavily from Latin? Does "sammies" not rooted from "sandwich"? Point in case, Modern English is derived from "something", and it is that something it has changed, just like sammies are changing derived from sandwich. Not very difficult to understand.

                                  1. re: thew

                                    or the French words that are actually Germanic and therefore run on a different set of gender article rules. (speaking for myself, a little knowledge IS dangerous as I can't really answer any inevitable question about why the S in the Les of 'Les Halles' is pronounced but not the second)

                                    still all fascinating stuff

                                    1. re: hill food

                                      As a Francophile (and practicing Francophone), I'd like to respond to hill food's quandary about the 2 s's in "les Halles". First, neither 's' should be pronounced. (See http://french.about.com/od/pronunciat... ) The 'h' is aspirated, so it functions as a separate sound from any preceding word.
                                      Second, if the 'h' were unaspirated (as in 'homme'), the first 's' in "les hommes" would be pronounced (in fact as a 'z'). So, in keeping with CH requirement to discuss restaurants & food, I'd like to add that the restaurant in NYC is correctly pronounced 'Lay Ahl".

                                      1. re: boredough

                                        ah my memory is shot then, maybe I am remembering it backwards that as you point out it is NOT pronounced but is in other uses... I knew there was some glitchiness going on. but as primarily an English speaker I certainly can't run around pointing figures over formal regularity.

                                        "Me (Never) Talk Pretty Someday"

                                        1. re: hill food

                                          you & David Sedaris!

                                          1. re: boredough

                                            HA!

                                        2. re: boredough

                                          "Lay Al," non?

                                          1. re: almond tree

                                            I expect the "h" in "Ahl" is meant to elicit the less-harsh "a" (sorry, do not know technical term for it, but I'm sure someone does) in French than that in English.
                                            (I'm English Canadian and one of the most difficult things for me with other languages is surpressing my native broad, strong "a".)

                                            1. re: buttertart

                                              Yes, it's not "AL" as in Al Capone, but AHL as in Oliver. Can't give you the technical term though.

                                              1. re: boredough

                                                Wikipedia, Wiktionnaire and my battered paperback Larousse agree - it's "AL" as in Al Capone. Rhymes with "salle," "balle" and "Louis Malle."
                                                Or try this: http://www.forvo.com/word/les_halles/#fr

                                                1. re: almond tree

                                                  but "salle" (pronounced more like the name Sol, not to be confused with Saul) is not the same sound as the name "Al", which has a flatter 'a'.
                                                  if you can get the (tempermental) voice to "talk", listen to this: http://heracleums.org/tools/pronuncia...

                                  2. re: hill food

                                    Hill food, I love that.

                                    1. re: sueatmo

                                      ASAP,BLOG, SNAFU, etc. are still acronyms.

                                      1. re: Mr Taster

                                        ;) I can do without multiple LOLs and OMGs as well. But they do communicate something about the poster, don't you think?

                                        1. re: sueatmo

                                          I think so. That is precisely what language does. I don't wring my hands over the collapse of language (well, not until it's time to mark essays; then I weep blood) but enjoy how the choices reveal as much about the speaker as about the content expressed. More, probably.

                                  3. re: acgold7

                                    I, too, thought RR was responsible but can't say for sure. Yes, I thought I might get some static for this post.

                                    1. re: acgold7

                                      I think "sammie" is too cutesy, but you, know English evolves. For all we know everyone will be using the term in 20 years. Or not. Who knows? On sloppy usage--I feel that if I, the reader, understands the writer in an online post or thread comment, then communication has taken place. But if I have to mentally change the punctuation or spelling to make the thing make sense, then I'm having to work too hard to understand.

                                      Now, can somebody tell me when the adjective, crisp became "crispy?"

                                      1. re: sueatmo

                                        Unfortunately, you have a point. I used to be a stickler for proper usage of the English language, including spelling and grammar but, in recent years I've relented a bit because it's futile. No one else seems to give a damn and, like you say, as long as I understand what is being said, communication has taken place. It still bothers me, tho.

                                        1. re: mucho gordo

                                          Here's the sort of thing I hate: Less chefs work at Andre's. (I made that headline up.) It should be fewer chefs, not less chefs. But of course, as you say, most readers don't seem to care. The problems in my newspaper copy bother me more than errors in online posts. And I don't always use proper grammar myself. Sentence fragments. Vernacular usages. Etc. :)

                                          1. re: sueatmo

                                            It's not only that people don't care; they don't really know what's correct. It was never important to them to learn.

                                            1. re: mucho gordo

                                              I agree. All of a sudden, they are writing posts and comments that everyone can see and read, whether they have learned to write or not. I am much more irritated by lapses in the newspaper, or on news sites that should have decent writers. I've noticed that the level of writing on CH is pretty good. And the help and information I've received through the years is much appreciated.

                                              1. re: mucho gordo

                                                Case in point: Mucho Gordo is incorrect Muy Gordo is correct.

                                                1. re: DPGood

                                                  Good call, DPG.

                                              2. re: sueatmo

                                                that, is, however, like nails on a chalkboard to me. You are not alone.

                                                1. re: sueatmo

                                                  that's incorrect for a different reason than you state. correct would be "chef quit/is gone at andre's." there is one chef. the line cooks are not chefs. if you added an apostrophe to your headlinde it would also become correct-- "less chef's work at andre's"-- because s/he is doing less work.

                                                  1. re: soupkitten

                                                    I know nothing about a restaurant's kitchen. But I was illustrating a usage problem. If I understand what you are saying, the headline could be: "Less Chefs in Springfield." But it would probably never be "Less Chefs at Andre's" because the hypothetical Andre's would only ever have one chef. I really did see a similar headline on one of the online aggregators. But I don't remember the exact wording or context

                                                    And I do know the difference between chef's, chefs, and chefs'.

                                                    1. re: sueatmo

                                                      yes, i think we're on the same page. i totally believe that a similar headline would be out there, though. i just pick up on the increasing misuse of the term "chef" because it's a pet peeve-- i think it really can be confusing, though :)

                                                  2. re: sueatmo

                                                    YES! Fewer and less are DIFFERENT! As are BRING and TAKE....as are plurals and possessives (or plural's and possessive's....ARGH!)

                                                    1. re: sandylc

                                                      I probably abuse the word 'bring.' I think the apostrophes will always defeat people and I don't know why. You've read Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss, right?

                                                      1. re: sueatmo

                                                        No, but it looks interesting! Thanks.

                                                    2. re: sueatmo

                                                      I agree, I have no problem with colloquial words and the cutesy stuff just lightens things up. As long as you know the rules of grammar, go nuts with the slang! It's more annoying that it annoys people when we use those words.
                                                      Also some of us post on these boards almost exclusively from smartphones where we take some shortcuts. As long as you understand what we are saying, why does it bother you so much??

                                                      1. re: iheartcooking

                                                        You've answered my post, but are you asking me why it bothers me so much. I think I stated earlier that I'm more bothered by errors of usage as encountered in pro journalism. But, yes, when someone says something like "there is less line cooks that before" it interrupts the flow. You go back and mentally correct what you have read. Another thing that stops the flow, is when someone uses the plural pronoun in reference to one person. And yet that occurs all the time and probably will become standard usage.

                                                        1. re: sueatmo

                                                          +1 on the now ubiquitous use of plural pronouns for one person. In the food world, I blame this on the (also ubiquitous) food reality-show challenges: "the winner will receive their choice of...." kind of thing. Agree it will become standard usage, too, 'cause we've gotten too lazy for his/her and it's clunky.

                                                          1. re: pine time

                                                            It is clunky: "anyone who has brought his/her cookbook to his/her home, should use his/her computer to e-mail his/her favorite recipe"... I can't imagine trying to say that, especially off the top of my head. What is needed is a generic singular pronoun. I don't think it's the food world. It's the US speaking world.

                                                            1. re: chowser

                                                              It's not that hard to unclunkify. You can pluralize the whole thing: "People who brought their cookbooks to their homes..." Or you can directly address the reader: "If you brought this cookbook to your home, use your computer..."

                                                              And we already have a generic singular pronoun. But I don't think "One who has brought one's cookbook to one's home" would be much of an improvement.

                                                        2. re: iheartcooking

                                                          There is a very fine line (at least to me), between using colloquial, folksy and cute, and affecting a major cliché.

                                                          All too often, I encounter menus (often in the Deep South), that crosses that line, and becomes very bothersome.

                                                          Now, I "hail" from the Deep South, so I grew up with some subtle aspects, but often the menu, or the delivery of the menu, is like a bad parody on the Deep South, and much of that seems to be by design.

                                                          As for some of the culinary terms, that seem to have crept into the popular lexicon, I can do without most of it. Same for too many sports commentators. Tell it like it is, and do not make up phrases, in hopes that they will go down in history.

                                                          Just my thoughts,

                                                          Hunt

                                                          1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                            I live in Minnesota (now, anyway - not from here!) and here there is a disdain for most things Southern, especially accents, schools, and food. Cutsie cliches, etc., just make the perception worse. They also think that they do not have an "accent" here - they do certainly have a "different" way of pronouncing words here, however!

                                                            One thing I struggle with is this: Regardless of region, how much is accent, and how much is mispronunciation? My mother is from the South, and she says "libary" - I'm sure she grew up with this pronunciation, but to me this isn't accent, it's wrong (sorry, Mom). She also says "tar" when she means "tire" - that IS an accent. Am I off track here?

                                                            Some will say it doesn't matter, and in many ways it doesn't. But these things are both noticeable and interesting to many of us, and attention to it is important in that all language needs some sort of maintenance to keep it....cleaned up and tidy....so that we can communicate with one another as well as possible.....

                                                            1. re: sandylc

                                                              I will never attack the fine folk of MN, but the other points that you cite, grate on me too. I actually hear such more, with the national news media "talking heads," than locally, though I now live well outside of the Deep South. Even when I did live there, I seldom heard many, but then the Gulf Coast of Mississippi was almost considered to be a "bunch of Yankees." [Grin]

                                                              Hunt

                                                              1. re: sandylc

                                                                I heard 'libary' as a child growing up in the suburbs of St. Louis. I don't think that pronunciation is necessarily southern.

                                                                1. re: sueatmo

                                                                  http://dialect.redlog.net/maps.html

                                                                  attempts to map a variety of dialect differences. Some have to do with pronunciation (caramel), others with word usage (dinner v supper).

                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                    Cool - thanks! Reminds me of my linguistics class.

                                                              2. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                Hunt: "a bad parody on the Deep South, and much of that seems to be by design"

                                                                oh believe me, the manufactured "folksiness" is not limited to one region. it drives me crazy. I mean just 'cause we're hillbillies doesn't mean we're stupid and only respond to "Hee Haw" type appeals. it's a calculated approach based on assumed suspicion and a certain fear of the unknown.

                                                                1. re: hill food

                                                                  But nonetheless it is the fewer of two evils.

                                                                  1. re: Veggo

                                                                    The "fewer"? Ooh, you are sly.

                                                                    1. re: Veggo

                                                                      HA! well I'm having none of it unless Minnie Pearl or Junior Samples have approved it. or someone with worse grammar or diction. seriously, I love homemade TV ads and their inevitable quirks, but I have yet to hear one, ONE person (except for a mechanic 18 months ago) speak with more of a mush-mouth drawl than the crap used in regional mass-media commercials.

                                                            2. re: mucho gordo

                                                              I care! I don't use impact as a verb, not EVER, nor will I! If the OED caves, though, we're fu*ked.

                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                oh would it really impact your life if you did? yeah that and many other mis-purposed verb to noun or noun to verb words drive me crazy. for amusement I've been thinking of ways to re-situationalize words and see if they gain traction in common usage (see? there was one!)

                                                                1. re: hill food

                                                                  repurposed not mispurposed

                                                                  1. re: thew

                                                                    thew, I maintain these words were mis-purposed in the vain attempt to re-purpose them... (but we're still cool right?)

                                                                  2. re: hill food

                                                                    Ongoing. There is no infinitive "to ongo." What's wrong with good old "continuing?"

                                                                    Best of all, how about the misuse of "literally?" Example from Jeff Rossen of NBC news recently: "People were literally glued to the televisions..."

                                                                    1. re: mcf

                                                                      That's like saying "Why did we have this second child? The first one was just fine. Plus the second one is kind of ugly." Can't you love both? By which I mean, appear to love both, but give more food and attention to the one you really like.

                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                        Ongoing most definitely is a word:

                                                                        Pronunciation:/ˈɒngəʊɪŋ/
                                                                        adjective

                                                                        continuing; still in progress:ongoing negotiations

                                                                        http://oxforddictionaries.com/definit...

                                                                        Might not be "to ongo" -- but it is definitely going on.

                                                                        1. re: sunshine842

                                                                          And there are more where that one came from: outstanding, incoming, outgoing, off-putting, upstanding, …

                                                                          1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                            I believe that they are words used to eliminate the use of a preposition at the end of a sentence.

                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                              Quite right. I cannot imagine a worse thing to end a sentence with.

                                                                              1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                good thing I'm here to set you up with straight lines...

                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                  Or, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, that is something up with which I will not put!

                                                                                  1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                    Oh, this is nitpicking up with which I will not put!

                                                                        2. re: mcf

                                                                          "Impact" as a verb meaning "To have a (pronounced) effect on" has been in the OED for decades.

                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                            Well, impact is a legit verb, but yes, not in the sense that you are talking about. Its misuse drives me nuts!
                                                                            Edit: Oops, didn't read DD response.

                                                                        3. re: sueatmo

                                                                          Okay, your last sentence bothered me, so I've been thinking about it. Fresh air can be crisp, a dollar bill or a starched shirt can be crisp. They cannot be crispy. Only food can be, no?

                                                                          1. re: Glencora

                                                                            specifically---- Bacon
                                                                            or potato chips

                                                                            1. re: Glencora

                                                                              Of course! But in the olden days bacon was crisp and so were potato chips. When did crisp, as applied to being "firm, dry and brittle" in a good way become "crispy." You do make a good point though. We never call apples "crispy." Or percale sheets. Why not though?

                                                                              The first time I heard "crispy" used for crisp was in a commercial in the 1970s or early 1980s. It bothered me then, because I didn't think the usage was correct. And all of sudden I noticed that crisp had become crispy when it applied to packaged food items.

                                                                              However the deed is done. Potato chips are now crispy and so is most cereal.

                                                                              1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                Cotgrave's dictionary defines French "bressaudes" as "the crispie mammocks that remaine of tried hogs grese". This was back in the olden days (1611).

                                                                                Also, does anyone have a recipe for bressaudes??? They sound awesome.

                                                                                1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                  no....cereal should stay "crunchy" in milk...

                                                                          2. I call them sandwiches or sammies depending on my mood and have done so for the longest. Always using longhand doesn't make you more mature, imo.

                                                                            *Oops. I just used one of those pesky acronyms... :)

                                                                            41 Replies
                                                                            1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                              zactly. it's language, we're allowed to play with it.

                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                I agree. What I find most offensive is the idea [implemented in France] that a few people sitting in a boardroom get to decide what words enter the language. I do have my pet peeves, but I prefer the democratic approach ...

                                                                                1. re: foiegras

                                                                                  Agreed. You know the French speak vernacular no matter what the language police rule correct. And then, in Israel I understand, it takes language experts to devise a recognized Hebrew word for a new item or concept that requires it. In that case a dead language Hebrew has been revived and is being modified to remain current. I wonder if English words enter the Hebrew vocabulary anyway?

                                                                                  1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                    well they do in that television is 'televiseeya' and university is 'ooniversita'. Pizza is pizza, there are probably others I can't think of right now but somebody will surely know.

                                                                                  2. re: foiegras

                                                                                    I see nothing wrong with a culture attempting to preserve its linguistic traditions. As sueatmo says, there's nothing stopping people from using popular or regional languages and dialects. But I do see a benefit to having an official, consistent, academic standard, which is carefully curated and maintained, so that this becomes the standard bearer for which regional differences, popular culture, etc. branches out from. Without an established standard and respect for these traditions, you get (for example) American English :)

                                                                                    Mr Taster

                                                                                    1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                      Which version should be maintained and preserved? Whose version?

                                                                                      1. re: DPGood

                                                                                        I've never suggested that this system should be applied to American English. But several countries do maintain an academic standard version of their language and that's the one that should be preserved.

                                                                                        Simplified Chinese is a good example of an imposed language shift in which academic standards were ignored. As a result, the language became much more blunt, and the artistry and subtlety of the words, characters and meanings behind them have been lost for a population of ~1.3 billion. The language was devastated. It's an utter travesty.

                                                                                        Mr Taster

                                                                                        1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                          So, which version?

                                                                                          1. re: DPGood

                                                                                            I posted too early. Reload.

                                                                                            Mr Taster

                                                                                            1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                              So you think English English is something that should be strictly codified and regulated? And American English isn't? And if yes to the former question, who gets to do the regulating and why?

                                                                                          2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                            Re simplified Chinese - as I understand/was taught it, the simplified characters were based to a great extent on cursive versions that had existed for many centuries. I don't agree that it's a linguistic tragedy, rather the opposite since it has rendered literacy more widely attainable because of the simplification.

                                                                                            1. re: buttertart

                                                                                              "I don't agree that it's a linguistic tragedy, rather the opposite since it has rendered literacy more widely attainable because of the simplification."

                                                                                              Increasing literacy was certainly the intention, but there is no proof that simplification did that. Certainly, Tawian and Hong Kong possibly Singapore are/were using the Traditional Chinese characters and the literacy rates are not lower in these places. If any, higher. Literacy is more related to education and economic.

                                                                                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                Fair enough re literacy rates but the (very idealistic I agree) goal was universal literacy and mutual comprehension through the use of Putonghua (Mandarin) as the national language. Still not a tragedy, though. The words mean the same thing and are used in the same ways (more or less, except for regional uses such as in Cantonese) whichever way they're written.

                                                                                                As a student of Chinese, not a native speaker, I am curious if the romance/mystique of the character is perceived more by the learner than the native speaker. For a simple example, the character for "hungry" is of course composed of a word for food beside the word for "I". That's totally cool to realize when you are learning the language, but I doubt it's something Chinese speakers find exciting. Am I wrong in thinking that characters are perceived as unitary words, as in English, with a single meaning, not as radical x + phonetic y, each with their own evocative meaning?

                                                                                                1. re: buttertart

                                                                                                  Buttertart, although I too am a student of Mandarin, my wife is the native speaker (and my occasional tutor.)

                                                                                                  Although she was a biotechnology major In her undegrad life in Taiwan, her favorite electives were all classical Chinese literature, and she had a particular love for the poems of Li Po. I don't quite know how to explain it precisely, but the characters in classical literature gave her a greater appreciation for the elegance embedded in the characters, even as used in the modern language.

                                                                                                  Sometimes this poetic language shows up in unlikely places, like in the names of dishes on a Chinese restaurant menu. (She'll say to me, "wow, what a beautiful and elegant name for this dish," to which I reply "so what is it?" Her response: "I have no idea. But it sounds beautiful.")

                                                                                                  During the two months we spent traveling in mainland China, we constantly encountered uses of simplified Chinese that she said felt clunky and inelegant. For example, we were in a bank and there was a section for VIPs (business customers, etc.) The Chinese characters on the sign demarcating the area literally translated to "Big House Area". Literally, if you have a big house, it means you have a lot of money, and therefore this area is for you. I don't know if this will translate to non-native speakers reading this, but to her ears this "Big House Area" sounded crude and blunt. Maybe you have to be a student of Li Po to fully get it.

                                                                                                  Mr Taster

                                                                                                  1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                    It's blunt, definitely. In a PRC brusque way.
                                                                                                    I'm not in any way saying that traditional Chinese is not beautiful or not to be cherished. Allusive names for dishes are wonderful as are many other things (even a name for a dish as basic as Dong Po Rou, to bring it back to poetry).

                                                                                                    1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                      A high school friend of mine has lived in Taipei City sinced shortly after college. He narried a Chinese girl about 15 years ago. When they were back here visiting his wife told me that when he meets people for the first time in person after speaking with him on the telephone (business calls) they are shocked to learn he is an American. I think he has a knack for languages because I know he is also fluent in German.

                                                                                              2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                So which version of Chinese should have been maintained and preserved?

                                                                                                1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                  Unsimplified characters are still in use in Taiwan, of course.

                                                                                                  1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                    Without a doubt, traditional Chinese should have been maintained and preserved. As buttertart indicates traditional Chinese characters are still used in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

                                                                                                    Chinese characters (the more complex ones) are supercharged with meaning, history, structure and even story. Figuring out a new Chinese character is a bit like decoding a puzzle. Whereas in English we would sound out the syllables and maybe try to find a Latin root for a clue to the meaning, Chinese readers need to look at the unfamiliar character and deconstruct it with various complicated rules and history and keys to pronunciation and meaning (Chinese is filled with homonyms, so the clues in each character define one high toned "Chang" from another high toned "Chang", which in spoken language can only be inferred by context) before they finally can understand the meaning of it.

                                                                                                    This complexity is sometimes confounding, sometimes illuminating. When you figure out a really complicated character there's a bit of a light bulb that goes off and it's very satisfying.

                                                                                                    With the simplified Chinese characters used on the mainland and in Singapore, much of the artistry and the charged meanings of the traditional characters are stripped away. You wind up with a much more utilitarian, blunt edged language (which is easier to learn- that is its only virtue) but you sacrifice much of the poetry and complex beauty of the stories and history that led to the meaning behind the traditional version of the character.

                                                                                                    Further, language reflects how people think and structure their ideas. I know I'm treading on delicate ground here but in my experience with native traditional Chinese learners, there's a more pronounced complexity to the conversations we have. I freely admit that this could be a false correlation, maybe due more in part to the "don't ask too many questions" mindset that the communist government has encouraged over the years.

                                                                                                    So yes, I believe the traditional version of the language should be preserved, maintained and taught, even if people use simplified for everyday life.

                                                                                                    Mr Taster

                                                                                              3. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                I see many downsides of a centralized attempt to halt the development of language.

                                                                                                Not the least of which is it encourages a form of pedantic bigotry against those who speak in regional dialects (generally cut off from the more widespread and 'officially endorsed' dialect) by people who are apparently unaware that the very dialect they speak has been subject to the same regional influences and encoded 'mistakes' and deviations from what was at one time 'correct.'

                                                                                                There's also the issue that centralized planning effectively makes language less versatile. And since language is the most powerful and important tool mankind has, any attempts to weaken it should be met with extreme skepticism.

                                                                                                In my mind, that's only a minor jump from making hamburgers our national food and steadfastly maintaining its traditions and techniques - and sorry is the bastard who takes liberties with making a hamburger. You're killing what's beautiful about language (or food) by defining it narrowly.

                                                                                                The best thing you can say about the effort IMO is that it's a bunch of silly bureaucratic nitwits behaving as silly bureaucratic nitwits often do, and no one will pay them much mind anyway. I hope.

                                                                                                1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                  I think you're forgetting something. We're humans. Pedantic bigotry is in our DNA. Regional dialects will exist, and will be discriminated against with or without a governing board of language.

                                                                                                  And what's wrong with setting standards for food? There are plenty of non-AVPN certified pizzerias all over Italy. And quite frankly I'd like to take a gelato paddle to every American ice cream shop that falsely advertises their confections as gelato, simply because it's homemade, smoothed out with a spatula, and sold in metal bins.

                                                                                                  The ultimate result of a lack of established standards (whether it's false gelato or traditional Chinese) is that the people don't really know what they're missing. I see nothing wrong with an official agency whose mission is strictly to inform people-- not to tell them what to do.

                                                                                                  Mr Taster

                                                                                                  1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                    An official agency? For gelato and traditional Chinese? What else?

                                                                                                    1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                      That's all for now!

                                                                                                      Mr Taster

                                                                                                    2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                      "I see nothing wrong with an official agency whose mission is strictly to inform people-- not to tell them what to do."
                                                                                                      ________
                                                                                                      How does that differ from academic study of linguistics and history of language? Because academics primary purpose is study rather than in telling people that they're wrong.

                                                                                                      Sure, their word is non-binding, but it's still backed by their official capacity and a fool's notion of correctness. I see we are both glad they don't have any foot soldiers, so that's good.

                                                                                                      "And what's wrong with setting standards for food? There are plenty of non-AVPN certified pizzerias all over Italy."
                                                                                                      _______
                                                                                                      The same thing that's wrong with setting official standards for language -- the risk that people might take them seriously. Importantly, AVPN is a nonprofit rather than a governmental organization - not exactly an official mandate that traditional foods be made traditionally. Consider instead the German beer law - Reinheitsgebot. Sure it served as a form of economic protectionism, but I'd argue that it did German beer drinkers no favors. It's not like countries who didn't have such a restrictive law completely lost their traditional beer making techniques. Rather, German beer drinkers and makers just had that much less variety to choose from.

                                                                                                      "We're humans. Pedantic bigotry is in our DNA."
                                                                                                      _______
                                                                                                      Credit where credit is due - that's a good retort.

                                                                                                      1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                        Don't forget, the preservation of culture and food traditions... the old stuff... is what makes visiting Europe special.

                                                                                                        Our culture is the opposite... ours is an anything goes, no traditions are sacred culture. We were eating Jell-O salads in the 60s, fehcrissakes.

                                                                                                        So in a roundabout way, you've actually made the point that the thing we need more of in this country (and the thing that perhaps Europe could benefit from a little less of) are advocates establishing standards for our best food traditions.

                                                                                                        Mr Taster

                                                                                                        1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                          I have nothing against preserving old traditions. In fact, I'm in favor of it. I have something against doing so from an official capacity while ignorantly insisting that the continued evolution of culinary or linguistic traditions is 'wrong.'

                                                                                                          1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                            My husband once mentioned to a co-worker how yummy grapefruit brulee is. She responded with, "Oh, that's so eighties!"

                                                                                                            I think good food is good regardless of impressions of which era it may "belong" in.

                                                                                                            1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                              I strongly agree with you. I was going to write "I so agree with you" but thought better of it at the last second.

                                                                                                        2. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                          Ha! I'll keep my Reinheitsgebot and delightful German beers, unsoiled by rice, corn or other abominations that seem to be the preferred (= cheap) ingredients in other countries not to be named here.....

                                                                                                          and you cats can continue to argue over something I'd personally file under "WGAFF?".

                                                                                                          1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                            I'm a child of the American microbrew renaissance. The rules of Reinheitsgebot are far too strict for my sensibilities. If you feel the need to be protected from the seductive evil of wheat beers, more power to you.

                                                                                                            1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                              Huh? We have plenty of wheat beer in the fatherland. Ales? Meh. I can be a happy camper without them.

                                                                                                              1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                Well, the fatherland dropped Reinheitsgebot as an official policy in 1988. Now it's mainly for advertising, which is fine by me.

                                                                                                              2. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                                                I've yet to try anything with "Reinheitsgebot" on the label that wasn't pretty damn fine beer.

                                                                                                                And even my favorite American microbrews state on the label that they *follow* Reinheitsgebot, even if they can't be certified as such.

                                                                                                                makes a difference.

                                                                                                                And yes, I've consumed more than my fair share of fine wheat beers in most of the regions of Germany (mit zitronen, bitte). They're not advertising -- wheat beers can and are certified under Reinheitsgebot.

                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                  "They're not advertising -- wheat beers can and are certified under Reinheitsgebot."
                                                                                                                  ---------
                                                                                                                  Yes. Incorrectly. Because it's now mostly used for advertising.

                                                                                                                  I like German beers just fine, including beers that adhere to reingeitsgebot. That's completely beside the point. I'm not saying they were bad. Just that they were limited for no good reason. There are a lot of beers I love that wouldn't fit the official standard.

                                                                                                                  It's not a seal of quality. It just indicates that a beer was made in a specific way. It's a fine way to make a beer, but not the only good way.

                                                                                                              3. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                Reinheitsgebot rules does (did) make for fun seasonal treats like Kolsch

                                                                                                            2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                              But informing people and deciding which words are 'in' and which 'out' are two completely different missions. And how is promulgating an official version of the language not telling people what to do?

                                                                                                              I will take the OED, complete with bootylicious, over the French system any day of the week. I remain unconvinced that a group of academics (or whoever they are) knows what's best for me or the language.

                                                                                                              I am all for beauty, but sometimes straight-forward technical information is needed. It should be as clear as possible. I think there is a beauty in truly useful language, and then there's a somewhat different kind of beauty in literature. I think there's room for both in any language, and any language allowed to evolve naturally will have all the components needed for both, and much more.

                                                                                                              1. re: foiegras

                                                                                                                The thing is American English dictionaries are different now. In the first half of the last century they tended to be prescriptive. That is, definitions and pronunciation were given for a term as the term would correctly be used. Now dictionaries are mostly descriptive. That is they record terms as they are being currently used. We've already made the turn away from the authoritative. We'll never go back. The OED is best used to find the history of a word, but it is a fabulous language resource. Do you own a set?

                                                                                                                Academics cannot affect everyday language usage. It is foolish to try. Even though I hate certain usages, I admit that communication does take place most of the time.

                                                                                                          2. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                            which is no more a bastard version than Canadian English or Australian English or South African English or New Zealand English (or any other form that I happen to have missed in the list). They're all branches of the same tree, none any more or less legitimate or recognized than the others. I've heard some English spoken in Great Britain that would fall squarely under the "abomination of the language category" -- they're no more protected from mis-usage or butchery of the language than the US (or Canada or Australia or South Africa or New Zealand or anyone else) are PRONE to it.

                                                                                                            And as is touched upon somewhat further downthread, there is a new form of English that is evolving as I write -- there is a new form of English, termed "international English" for lack of a better term -- that doesn't follow the grammatical or spelling norms of ANY other "branch" of English currently existent. It's also legitimate, because it's being invented on the fly by people who need to have a common language with which to communicate with others around the globe. It's pretty interesting stuff, actually.

                                                                                                            While we're at it, let's take a look at French (with different, but legitimate existing forms under Creole, Canadian, numerous countries in Southeast Asia, the Pacific Islands, and several former colonies in Africa)....or perhaps Spanish (different, but legitimate existing forms in Puerto Rico, Cuba, Spain, regional differences across Mexico, as well as across the South American continent).

                                                                                                            Whose version is the original? Whose is correct? (the Academy Francaise says it's theirs -- but is it really?)

                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                              Me, I like dat Cajun French.

                                                                                                              1. re: pattisue

                                                                                                                But, to be fair, I hardly think the Academy Francaise has missionaries converting people in the Bayou to Parisian French...

                                                                                                                Mr Taster

                                                                                                                1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                                  are you sure? :)

                                                                                                                  They've failed miserably, by the way, to make people use Academie rules in day to day language when there's another, more commonly-used word available-- one of the more spectacular recent fails was when they tried to implement "courrier electronique" -- literally 'electronic letterr' for 'email', which would then be allowed to be shortened to 'courriel'.

                                                                                                                  But what word do my French IT friends use, and all of my French colleagues? Email.

                                                                                                    3. YES. Thank you. I blame Rachel Ray, too. I mentally deduct my IQ estimate of anyone who uses it. ;-)

                                                                                                      1. What about sandos? I've been noticing that a lot of peopple like to say sando's, but never heard it before 2010. I like it a lot more than sammie.

                                                                                                        28 Replies
                                                                                                        1. re: chocomel

                                                                                                          I'm okay with shortening nouns in an informal setting. Sarnies is my sandwich diminutive of choice, though I will use the others depending where I'm posting/talking. I would likely not ask what kind of sarnies we were having for lunch at a business meeting, however.

                                                                                                          And FWIW I don't think we can blame RR for sammies and neither does the OED: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definit...

                                                                                                          1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                            Good post!

                                                                                                            1. re: grayelf

                                                                                                              Ah! A Kiwi usage.

                                                                                                            2. re: chocomel

                                                                                                              "Sando" is the way Japanese people say sandwich.
                                                                                                              But there is only one instance where I don't mind hearing the word "sammie."

                                                                                                               
                                                                                                              1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                SWEET.

                                                                                                                1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                  High five!

                                                                                                                  1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                    LMAO!!!

                                                                                                                    1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                      nobody else could take the sunshine and sprinkle it with dew like him.

                                                                                                                      1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                        You mean with "deuw." ;-)

                                                                                                                      2. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                        Someone should create a sandwich recipe called the 'Sammie' Davis Jr!

                                                                                                                        1. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                          What would a Sammie Davis be? Any thoughts?

                                                                                                                          Great Entertainer.

                                                                                                                          1. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                            A Sammie Davis Jr. would be something like Kosher pastrami on black rye.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                              awesome.

                                                                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                And I want it. Now! Cubbards are lean, save for the duck and cheeses.

                                                                                                                                1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                  Not Cubbards, Cuburds. And their not lean, there bear. Geez!

                                                                                                                                  1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                                                    You and I would play an interesting game of Scrabble...!!

                                                                                                                                    1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                                                      @DPGood - it's amazing how hard that last bit was to read because even though the words you used were phonetically correct, my brain found them hard to read because visually, they weren't the right words. I actually had to read it out loud.

                                                                                                                                      1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                                                        There's a bear there, in their bare cupboard?

                                                                                                                                        1. re: LoBrauHouseFrau

                                                                                                                                          A bear! A bear! All black and brown and covered with hair!

                                                                                                                                    2. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                      +1

                                                                                                                                    3. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                                      ROTF!!

                                                                                                                                      You made my day with that one!

                                                                                                                                      Touche!

                                                                                                                                      Edit: This was meant for Tripeler's sammie

                                                                                                                                    4. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                                      Someone did! Just don't expect Pastrami or an open faced short rib meal...

                                                                                                                                      http://www.appleannieskitchen.com/con...

                                                                                                                                    5. re: Tripeler

                                                                                                                                      For the win. :-)

                                                                                                                                    6. re: chocomel

                                                                                                                                      Well, my husband calls them "sand wedges" and my son calls them "sangwiches", but they're doing it for comedic effect- does that make them retards or language butchers?

                                                                                                                                      1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                        when it's done for laughs and they know the proper word and use it other than when they're trying to make you laugh, then it's just for laughs and outside the scope of this one (until they've done it 500 times and you just throw the sandwich at them in frustration)

                                                                                                                                        In South Florida, you hear them called sanguiche (sangweechee)-- which is the Spanish twist on the word -- not really butchery, but a hybrid word (sometimes called Spanglish -- it's not correct in either language, but everybody understands it)

                                                                                                                                        1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                          I would say they are playing with language.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                            Oh yes they are. Pete and RePete, I call them. They both sing and whistle in the shower, too. They're pretty cute, actually.

                                                                                                                                            Sunshine, I'm going to adopt sanguiche for my very own thanks to you. I'm one with Spanglish. That way I get my own comedy sandwich name. In western Mexican Spanish I think it's pronounced sangweechay based on the spelling.

                                                                                                                                            I wonder if young son picked up sangwich from the sandwich restaurant he worked at for six years. Now that I think about it, of course that's where he picked it up. I never said I was a quick study...

                                                                                                                                        2. re: chocomel

                                                                                                                                          what's with the extraneous apostrophe?

                                                                                                                                        3. Yes. Yes we are. I don't know why but when I see the word Sammie it bugs the hell out of me.

                                                                                                                                          4 Replies
                                                                                                                                          1. re: virtualguthrie

                                                                                                                                            Is it as bad as "appy"? Like, "Let's grab drinks and appies after work".

                                                                                                                                            Kill me.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: invinotheresverde

                                                                                                                                              at least the French only truncate it to 'aperos'

                                                                                                                                              1. re: invinotheresverde

                                                                                                                                                Then again, there are "happy apps", where I wonder what my phone will pick up during happy hour.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: tracylee

                                                                                                                                                  ill admit it.....i have the "brostache"........

                                                                                                                                            2. lol maybe summa u r adults, but languies inevitab mutaties by peeps sis howa languie evolves yo. B4u no it, given current Δlangconvent, u wudn't be able 2 talk to ur grand kiddies as Δlang(u) /= Δlang(culture), u grok? u aimin 2B most articulate corpsie in the graveyard? u wanna ur tombsto 2 b readen "Here lies Mr. Gordo, who always spoke like an adult." cuz omnipeeps, includin ur grand kiddies grandkiddies be all "WTF FSM gave this dood selfreflexi consci + capac2grok+participay in Δlang and he jus xeroxed utha dead/dyin primaties gruntin n groanin patterning exact? srsly wtf? wherz da jazz, da improvizaties, da majik, wherz da evolu?"

                                                                                                                                              here is a thesis: if the way language is changing bothers you, you're actually mad at the fact that you're gonna die. It's not the change in language that's bothering you, it's the way the change of language mirrors your impending mortality. That irritation that you feel when you hear 'sammie,' that's your brain reminding you that in 20 years, you'll be dead. Not only that, the world didn't even wait for you to die before moving on like existence didn't/doesn't matter at all. Besides the fact death is inevitable, life was completely inconsequential on almost any scale of space and time, the world has moved on, including phasing out huge chunks of your language and worldview. Even worse, reality is not even polite enough to hide it's utter indifference to you. Maybe that is why you get irritated at a 'sammie'. srsly.

                                                                                                                                              if this is depressing, i'd recommend enjoying a delicious sammie while you still have a few fleeting chances to let go of anxiety related to things you can't ever change.

                                                                                                                                              15 Replies
                                                                                                                                              1. re: TheFoodEater

                                                                                                                                                Sammie? Eh. I don't mind the word so much although I would not use it. I think it infantilises the speaker, but no, not a problem. And EVOO? Again, I wouldn't use it because I find it overly precious (save for maybe when on a shopping list on a smart phone-- or a text reminder) but I suppose we can enjoy these new words that give such insight into the users.

                                                                                                                                                BUT, when writing which fails to adhere to grammatical rules and the like, I do not lament my own mortality so much as get frustrated with the lack of courtesy it suggests. The point of language is to communicate an idea to another person. Refusing to adhere to the standard rules impedes the clarity of the communication, as does the decision to use other words and phrases incorrectly. When the language is so muddied, it onus of understanding falls entirely on the recipient, and frankly, I see that as rude. I hardly think my own ideas are so precious as to be buried and hidden, as if a treasure. Although I don't always succeed, my aim is to be clear so that the other person need not struggle to make sense of my blether.

                                                                                                                                                I see many changes as acceptable, but thwarting rules in order to champion idiomatic precious snowflake expression is not really on. I'm all for James Joyce, but not everyone is a James Joyce. Sorry. And my imminent death has nothing to do with it.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                  I think my irritation is more because the education system exists for a reason -- most everyone here managed to learn proper spelling and grammar, so there's not much reason why others can't. To me it's kinda like someone crashing a black-tie dinner wearing a wifebeater, board shorts and flip-flops, then eating with his fingers and talking with his mouth full.

                                                                                                                                                  I teach English, so I'm actually fascinated by the evolution of the English language. The bastardization, not so much. And yes, there's a difference.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                    I teach two english as a second language classes a week in the US or Italy.The evolution and idioms are problematic enough,bastardization is a damn road block.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: lcool

                                                                                                                                                      I'm ESL, too -- it's actually really an interesting field to be in right now with the evolution of "global English" -- but my students still tell me that they want to learn to write and speak "the right way" -- i.e., according to standard US or UK grammar and spelling rules (and sometimes a little of both)

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                        25 years ago in S Korea I was coerced into teaching ESL.Went into it thinking,bad idea this.I grew up in a three language household,never gave any thought to having "learned" english etc.The teaching grew on me.
                                                                                                                                                        For the past 15 years all my students are latin language speakers that really want "proper" UK or US english.The kitchen,work shop and grocery store are my starting point,seeming never to embarrass those that arrived with questionable literacy from xyz country.The common bonds of food,pots&pans,pliers etc ease country of origin tension quickly.Everybody has a grandmother that cooks X best,nailing it in english is a sense of pride for them.
                                                                                                                                                        Want a recipe for MOLE or TOMATO RAGOUT or ?.I have plenty of them to share.All perfect,find me a grandmother that isn't.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: lcool

                                                                                                                                                          heehee -- I do the same -- everyone is interested in food!

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lcool

                                                                                                                                                            speaking of the evolution of language, the reason why latin is called a "dead" language is that there are no conversational latin speakers anymore, so the language has ceased to evolve. that is one reason latin is used in written scientific/medical texts/naming internationally. perhaps you meant to say "romance language speakers." worth noting re the rest of the thread that "living" languages such as contemporary english are, by definition, continuing to change and evolve.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: soupkitten

                                                                                                                                                              sorry I left the word origin or root between latin__&__ language

                                                                                                                                                            2. re: lcool

                                                                                                                                                              What a nice story! Thanks for sharing.

                                                                                                                                                        2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                          i am noticing your use of the non-word "kinda" in your post, and am curious as to where you draw the line. on the bastardization you refer to, in case i am not being clear.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: soupkitten

                                                                                                                                                            satire much?

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: TheFoodEater

                                                                                                                                                        On the contrary, people cling to life specifically so they can continue to loudly express their language rage. It's what keeps them going. They will never die.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: TheFoodEater

                                                                                                                                                          You know, I don't agree with your analysis.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: TheFoodEater

                                                                                                                                                            Best. Post.

                                                                                                                                                            Why waste your time on something so petty? I think I'll have to make myself a sammich.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: TheFoodEater

                                                                                                                                                              This is a great post.
                                                                                                                                                              I especially like this line: "u aimin 2B most articulate corpsie in the graveyard?"

                                                                                                                                                              Not sure I'm with you that fear of death is the root cause of so much grouchiness. But a great post nonetheless.

                                                                                                                                                            2. Sammie, sure, it's annoying as heck, a shortened version of the cutesy sammich which I have seen on certain restaurant menus.

                                                                                                                                                              But why is this bad but veggie isn't?

                                                                                                                                                              28 Replies
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fibber McGee

                                                                                                                                                                Because the word "vegetable" doesn't make any sense anyway. Is it like a constable? Or a Huxtable?

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                                  Dagnabbit!

                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Fibber McGee

                                                                                                                                                                  "Veggie" is a word I never use except when I put it in quotation marks, in an instance like this. Same with "sammie."

                                                                                                                                                                  But RR wasn't the first person to abbreviate "sandwich" in recent memory. It was CS. Carmela Soprano. She and daughter Meadow both refer to eating a "tuna san" in a 2002 episode of THE SOPRANOS, "No Show." At least, *I* was watching THE SOPRANOS before RR.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                    I may need to duck for the tomatoes sure to come my way, but "resto" in place of restaurant is just as nail-grating to me as "sammie."

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: pine time

                                                                                                                                                                      But in posting, it is a good abbreviation for the word restaurant, I think. I makes more sense to me than calling a sandwich a sammie.

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                                                        Indeed. Sandwich to sammie contracts 8 letters to 6, 25%. Restaurant to resto contracts 10 letters to 5, 50%. We are saving trees and time, but giving it back arguing about it.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                                                          Too right.

                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: pine time

                                                                                                                                                                          Do those of you for whom "resto" (or "reco," for that matter) is part of your vocabulary actually use it in conversation, i.e., non-written language? I don't think I've ever heard anyone *say* "resto" or "reco."

                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                            Resto yes, reco no.

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                              'Resto' is used all the time in Europe (in several languages) as a normal part of spoken conversation.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                Oh, now I get it. Since it's used all the time in Europe, it's okay. Thanks for that little ray of sunshine, Sunshine.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                                  Well, I guess for people who live in Europe, spend a lot of time in Europe, or hang out with a lot of Euros then yes, the point is it is entirely acceptable usage to most of them.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                                    why the bared teeth?

                                                                                                                                                                                    Just saying it's normal and ordinary usage in everyday conversation and the media.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                                "Resto," is never part of my vocabulary, though I do type "rec." or "recs." very often. [Note the period.]

                                                                                                                                                                                Same for "mfgr." in my Adobe technical forums. Abbreviations are fairly common, especially on various forums.

                                                                                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                  Not to pick (O.K., to actually pick), but can rec. be an abbreviation for restaurant when restaurant doesn't have a "c" in it? Am I missing something (or maybe a lot)?

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                                    Although I shouldn't speak for Hunt . . .

                                                                                                                                                                                    "Do those of you for whom "resto" (or "reco," for that matter) is part of your vocabulary actually use it in conversation, i.e., non-written language? I don't think I've ever heard anyone *say* "resto" or "reco.""

                                                                                                                                                                                    I assume reco is for recommendation, so "rec." would be its abbreviation as I read this? (Please correct me if I am misinterpreting you Hunt.)

                                                                                                                                                                                    Personally, I use neither resto nor reco in speech or writing. I know people who use both as shortcuts in writing, but never heard it spoken. I guess I need to get to Europe more often.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: gaffk

                                                                                                                                                                                      Sounds good to me, and I now designate YOU as my personal answerer (new word there, but no "ie," and no abbreviations).

                                                                                                                                                                                      Just kidding a bit, but I do think that you got a handle on what I was attempting to state.

                                                                                                                                                                                      In non-written speech, I cannot recall using many (any?) abbreviations. Typing replies, is something else.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Now, when speaking, I might pronounce a few acronyms, such as RAID (Redundant Array of Independent Discs), or similar. However, I try to define those, in that same speech.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe it's because I am a "communicator" by trade, but I try to steer away from jargon, and verbal abbreviations, as others can easily misunderstand, and that is not good.

                                                                                                                                                                                      Just some thoughts,

                                                                                                                                                                                      Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                        I'm just dorky enough to hve known that RAID isn't just a bug spray ;) The perils of having degrees in English and Computer Science I suppose.

                                                                                                                                                                                        As personal answerer, do I get invited to one of your fabulous dinners?

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: gaffk

                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, were it the "bug spray," it would have appeared as Raid™. [Grin]

                                                                                                                                                                                          As my "Designated Answerer," I think that you SHOULD be involved. We're at Ame in San Francisco, on Nov 27. Does that work?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                            Unfortunately, wrong coast. I think you're due a visit to Philadelphia?

                                                                                                                                                                                            And love that you respect the trademark.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: gaffk

                                                                                                                                                                                        Got it. Thanks, I knew I was missing something.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: gaffk

                                                                                                                                                                                          Yes, it's used in Europe -- in several languages -- in everyday speech and broadcast media -- written and spoken.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Reco? Never.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                                          Perhaps, but I use it as an abbreviation for "recommendation."

                                                                                                                                                                                          "Mfg." is an abbreviation for manufacturer.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Now, one that gets me, and I see it on the Wine Board, plus elsewhere here, is "sommie," for "sommelier." I could live with "somm.," but do not recall seeing that. Maybe it's the "-ie" aspect, that rubs me the wrong way?

                                                                                                                                                                                          Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                                            rec=recommendation

                                                                                                                                                                                            'I have good recs for a new resto'

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                              Thanks!

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                <edit> was answering Sandy's request for clarification

                                                                                                                                                                                                personally I try not to use these as it feels sloppy, but sometimes one just doesn't care to type it all out.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                              "Recs." would be acceptable to me, yes.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Jay F

                                                                                                                                                                                                Whew. That's quite the relief.

                                                                                                                                                                                    2. shortening words has been a British and Australian thing for years
                                                                                                                                                                                      pud for pudding
                                                                                                                                                                                      toastie for toasted sandwiches (which is sarnie in the UK)
                                                                                                                                                                                      neeps for turnips
                                                                                                                                                                                      tatties for potatoes or spuds
                                                                                                                                                                                      mash for mashed potatoes
                                                                                                                                                                                      chips for chipped potatoes
                                                                                                                                                                                      bikkies for biscuits

                                                                                                                                                                                      just a few I can think of

                                                                                                                                                                                      14 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                        And don't forget Clockwork Orange!

                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                          ahh coll, but the use of language is a structural plot point in Clockwork Orange (and 1984 and Brave New World and more)

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                            I know, that's part of why I love it so much. I majored in linguistics first time around, before I realized a business degree would be a little more practical! I guess it's sort of cool to invent your own language.

                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                          Chips are short for chipped potatoes? I never knew that. The others (besides mash) I admittedly have not heard of. Outside of Marks and Sparks, I can't think of any shortening my English relatives have used in my conversations with them.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Toasties were Post's answer to Kellogg's Pop Tarts. Toaster pastries. Didn't really work out for them.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Fibber McGee

                                                                                                                                                                                            The Toasties thing reminds me of Cheerios. The Cheerios breakfast cereal was only introduced in New Zealand a few years ago. Traditionally in New Zealand, Cheerios are miniature frankfurters that are popular at children's parties or as nostalgic snack/finger food for adults and when I was a kid the butcher would aways give you a cheerio to eat if you went to the butcher's with Mum.
                                                                                                                                                                                            Just after the Cheerio breakfast cereal was launched I heard a story of a kid who asked Mum what was for breakfast and when told they were having Cheerios (the breakfast cereal), got really excited at the prospect of a bowl of mini frankfurter sausages for breakfast!

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                                                                                              When I was a kid a "cheerio" (besides the breakfast cereal made up the road in Minneapolis) was a chocolate covered ice cream bar. It must have been a term from my parents' youth in the '30s and '40s. I haven't used or heard the term in a long time but I know if asked my brothers would remember it. Does anybody else remember the word cheerio in this manner?

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                I thought of it as an upper class British expression, and always wondered how the cereal came to be named that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: coll

                                                                                                                                                                                                  well it was originally called cheery-oats. as opposed to hot oatmeal (dreary oats). then shortened to cheerios because of the o shape of the cereal bits. . . makes more sense than any number of cereal names. it was the first oat-based cold cereal.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: soupkitten

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Wow I'm not that old, but we used to call them Cheery Oats. We thought we were being funny. Must have picked it up from Mom or something I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                            Pressies for presents
                                                                                                                                                                                            Champers for Champagne
                                                                                                                                                                                            Prossies for... erm, you know.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                              piccies for photos. Aaargh.

                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                              Don't forget barbie for BBQ

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                                                                                and Q which I hear in the USA (even that's an acronym)

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                  LOL- that's just plain lazy.

                                                                                                                                                                                            3. ˙ʇnoqɐ ƃuıʞןɐʇ ǝɹ,noʎ ɥʇʍ sʍouʞ ǝɔuǝıpnɐ ɹnoʎ sɐ ƃuoן sɐ uǝʇɟo os ʎɹǝʌǝ spɹoʍ uǝʇɹoɥs oʇ ʞo s,ʇı ʞuıɥʇ ı 'ǝpısɐ ƃuıppıʞ ןןɐ

                                                                                                                                                                                              4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Gio

                                                                                                                                                                                                How in Hades did you do that?

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Hades or WWW? Is there a difference? Discuss.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.fliptext.org/

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                                                                    But you'd have to start a new thread for that, DD. Preferably in Not About Food, please.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thanks for the link. That's neato. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Here's the one I use...
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://www.sevenwires.com/play/Upside...

                                                                                                                                                                                              2. "Sammie users will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. I agree! Get rid of "sammie" and use "sammich" instead.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: dave_c

                                                                                                                                                                                                    "Sammich users will be shot. Survivors will be shot again." If possible l like sammich less than sammie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. hate sammy, nanner, tater, nom, nommy, nummy num nums, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    11 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Rodzilla

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Even Birdie Num Nums? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ov5fv...

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: prima

                                                                                                                                                                                                        prima - one of my favorite movies, always a litmus test if others get that one in casual (no linkies) conversation

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                          ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: Rodzilla

                                                                                                                                                                                                        My in laws actually and seriously used "tater" for potato. At first I thought it was a kind of country shtick, but no, that's what they called them.My MIL also called tomatoes, "maters" but I do think that was for effect.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had a buddy decades ago in New Haven whose real last name was Tater. An affable fellow. Predictably, his nickname was Po. I'll confess, I never knew his real first name. He was just Po.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Rodzilla

                                                                                                                                                                                                          What about napples? Growing up, our horse 'Tasha, loved to have a "napple" and would often lie that she hadn't gotten one, especially near the end of her life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Dad likes his ripe 'maters.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: tracylee

                                                                                                                                                                                                            back in the 70s I worked with another girl from the East End of London who said to us one day 'I brought in a red napple for my snack today'. We laughed and she did not know why. 'It's an napple' she told us astonished that the word was apple.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I'm glad it's not just my family that's weird! I'll have to tell that to my folks tonight when I go over for dinner.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                except I've also heard 'nappie' as British slang for a child's diaper. so a red nappie WOULD be cause for alarm and a trip to the pediatrician.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: hill food

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  no not nappy but napple. A nappy in England is not slang it's the word used (short for napkin but napkin no longer used for nappy). The word diaper is NOT used in England.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    sorry I mis-read the l for an i, much less unsettling your way! I figured out the evolution of nappie, I sorta assumed diaper wasn't used, but thx for the clarification. now I have to chase down diaper...

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. I say sammie in almost all circumstances these days, unless hanging out with my parents, who would be unfamiliar with what it meant. It definitely started out, a few years ago, as a sort of funny/cute thing to say when around friends but for me and I'd say most of my social group, it's really just become the normal word to refer to the 'fillings between 2 slices of bread' foodstuff. I'm not sure what percentage of these 'new' words make it into permanent use but sammie is one that has - for me and mine, anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hopefully if we conversed, you would realize after a little while that I am not actually retarded. Hopefully. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                            4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                              @montrealeater: I know what you mean about the funny/cute thing. In my group of friends if someone says something surprising, I usually respond with ,"Serial?" as in a twisted, abbreviated version of "Are you serious?" which then got shortened to, "Seriously?" which then got mangled into the above.
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Unfortunately, I now tend to say it outside of my circle of friends and after I've said it I often wonder if the person thinks I am an illiterate moron. Surprisingly, most people know what I mean.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                                                                                                                that was from a movie or something, because it became a huge fad, but darned if I can remember what it was.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  @sunshine842: Yes, I think you're right but I have no idea what movie either. I remember saying it as a kid 25 or so years ago.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: Billy33

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I remember it from the South Park episode with Al Gore and the Man Bear Pig.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. Reminds me of the time I lived in New Orleans. The locals could identify tourist when people used "N'awlins" or "Po' Boy". It's New Orleans and Poor Boy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: dave_c

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But you got your shoes on Bourbon Street. You know the drill.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: dave_c

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I have lived in south Louisiana all of my life, and everyone I know calls them po boys. I'm not a New Orleanian, but I don't think I'd be considered a tourist there, either. But really, no biggie. I just read a thread on another message board where the argument was whether a "real" Cajun pronounces pirogue with a hard g or a silent g, as in pee-row. No consensus was reached, except that every person on the opposing side was stupid or a poser. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. For me, it is the poor use of the language in general. Mom was a stickler for proper grammar and didn't let us get away with sloppy language. For this, I give her lots of credit.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So, add me to the list. In addition to sammie, yum-o, and dellish (is it really that hard to say "delicious"?), no adult should ever say "tummy" to another adult, or describe a food item as "yummy." "Yummy in my tummy" should get you the death penalty.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    BTW - it's a "restaurant" not a "resto."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    34 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      but it *is* a 'resto' in common usage in some parts of the world (including in the news, on the radio and television, and in daily usage) -- you can't paint it all with the same wide brush.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        yep, i heard 'resto' all over Marseille. and as the word "restaurant" is originally a French word, they can play with it any way they want!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        people and their RULES about everything. i know, i know, we'll devolve into anarchy and chaos if we don't say words properly. again, people, it's LANGUAGE. if you KNOW it, you can PLAY with it. only that way does language evolve, change, become something we all personally own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Good call on "resto", al. There's no "O" in restaurant. Why is it so difficult for people to correctly pronounce the penultimate syllable and add the last one?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Just for discussion's sake - The people who refer to restaurants as restos might wonder why it's so difficult for the people who don't not to get their linguistic undies in a twist about it. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            LOL. I just realized I said *UNDIES*. But just so y'all know, I do realize the full and correct word is *UNDERPANTS*.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Knowing what is correct and hearing the language bastardized grates on the nerves like running your fingernail across the blackboard.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                You should find a good recipe for chill pills. Perhaps the HC board?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: linguafood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  >>>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Knowing what is correct and hearing the language bastardized grates on the nerves like running your fingernail across the blackboard.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  <<<

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  EXACTLY!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You do know that blackboards are obsolete, right? My son's school didn't have a single one. They have dry erase boards. Things change.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I understand, mucho gordo. We all have our peeves. I'm just making light here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  But I think it's good to remember that what's correct changes over time. It used to be *correct* for me to address you as *thee* once upon a time...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Point taken, ina. Evolution of the language implies a change for the better and is a good thing.Trashing the language to sound 'cool' , casual and uneducated, is quite another.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    BTW you can always address me casually as Granpa' more formal would be sire

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      *Better* is often in the eye of the beholder, Granpa'sire. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Or is that Sire Granpa???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        No need for formalities here; Granpa will do fine.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for what is 'better; Do we really want to lower our standards to the point where we sound like "street people"? Does mediocracy trump intelligence?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I think we can measure intelligence in ways that don't have to do with not truncating or otherwise modifying words.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          And FWIW, sometimes it's just more fun to hang out with people who take life (and language) a little less seriously, and perhaps even talk like *street* people (I'm not really sure what that means, sincerely), than some of the blowhard types I've known personally who go so far as to correct another grown person's usage of language in the presence of others (and I don't mean in ESL class or this kind of setting where we have all signed up voluntarily to discuss these kinds of minutiae). And if in this instance, the first kind of person is mediocre and the latter, intelligent, it would be one of the rare instances in life where I would easily choose mediocrity over intelligence.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            <<And FWIW, sometimes it's just more fun to hang out with people who take life (and language) a little less seriously,>> I agree. I know "ain't" ain't right but I sometimes use it anyway. The point is, we do know what's correct. It bothers me that many don't know or care.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You've made some valid points, ina. I can't argue with them.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Our language defines us; our culture, just as other languages define other cultures. Most people take great pride in their native tongue; shouldn't we?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Evolution of the language implies a change for the better and is a good thing."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Completely subjective as to what is better and good. Is it better to spell substitute "u" for "you"? What about "LOL" for "laugh out loud"? And "J-knife" for "Japanese style knives"? "BTW" for "By the way". There are so many abbreviations written on CHOWHOUND that I do not think many people here really have the moral high ground to criticize "sammies".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Sammies is not an abbreviation. How difficult is it to say the word "sandwich"?Computer lingo or shorthand has become acceptable. In ordinary conversation you wouldn't say 'BTW', you would say the whole phrase. Likewise "LOL" would not appear in that conversation. Both do have a place, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            brace yourself -- my teenage niece said she was LOL-ing -- not lolling, LOLing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Argh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Because lolling and LOL-ing are two different things, sunshine. She wouldn't want you to think she was doing nothing when in fact, she was laughoutlouding!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Or "laughing out loud"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I know that -- but I was a little taken aback that she'd say "lolling" (phonetics!) when she was communicating that she was laughing out loud.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  MuchoGordo makes, I think, the key point -- that we KNOW what is correct, so the occasional mis-use is usually deliberate and to make some point (even if it's only that you're a smartass who knows better....!) It's the ones who genuinely believe their misuse to be correct that get my goat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i say doubleyew-tee-eff all the time, particularly when there are children present. note that there are more syllables in the above, than in the original phrase. i also say "i'll bee-ar-bee" and "he's a loser, dee-tee-em-eff-ay." . . i don't say i'm loling, though. . .

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                3. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "How difficult is it to say the word "sandwich"?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Maybe it is not an abbreviation like LOL, but who to say what is acceptable. If a human being can have a name "Sammie", then what is the problem of Sammies. Sammie (the human name) mostly definitely derived from Sam or Samuel, and Sammie is certainly not shorter than Sam or Samuel.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  If you have objection against Sammies for substitution for sandwich, then do you have objection against Sammie Bush or Sammie Henson or Sammie Stroughter... Would you go up to them and say 'Hey how difficult is it to say the word "Sam" or "Samuel"? What is wrong with your mom naming you Sammie?'

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    There is no logic to your argument. Humans can choose to call themselves whatever they want. Inanimate objects, such as sandwiches or doorknobs, do not have names, per se but they do have specific identifiers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And as they are inanimate, they probably take no offense to our little nicknames for them, I'm guessing. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        They might not take offense but the person next to you might not know what you're talking about or wonder about your sanity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If all it takes is the use of some acronyms, abbreviations, and truncations to make you doubt a person's sanity, I think it's time for you to get a new set of more exciting friends. :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: mucho gordo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "There is no logic to your argument. Humans can choose to call themselves whatever they want."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I specifically wrote in the previous post: '...What is wrong with your mom naming you Sammie?' The parents name the child/children, just like people name their sandwich. If anything, human has the ability to name objects. That is the foundation of any languages.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Humans can choose to call themselves whatever they want"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What is your logic then? Human can call each other names, but they cannot name an object? What logic is there for restricting our ability? With that kind of logic, of course you are confused. Why else do we call cat a cat, dog a dog.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "Inanimate objects, such as sandwiches or doorknobs, do not have names"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You are joking, right? Did you know we called an atomic bomb "Fat Man"? Did you know we called a horse "Seabiscuit"? A ship "Titanic" and a mountain range "Himalayas"? These are moot points. Calling sandwiches "sammies" is not giving a specific name to one sandwich. It is nothing like naming a space shuttle "Discovery". Calling sandwiches as "sammies" is renaming all sandwiches, much like renaming "automobile" to "car" or renaming "golden apple" to "tomato".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        "the person next to you might not know what you're talking about "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That is a rather weak argument, ain't it? This is bound to happen whenever a new name get introduced. If that is the only criteria, then no new name can ever be introduced because new names will always confuse someone. If so, we would still be calling tomatoes as "golden apples". Evidently, we didn't follow such rule.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          just a heads-up to all -- if you don't like the word "resto" then stay out of Europe - it's regular, everyday usage (Restos du Coeur, anyone?)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Al, I have to agree with you. I will never type resto again if it helps stem the tide of sammies, yum-os, and delishes. Or the descriptions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I used to date a guy who truly thought of himself as a multicultural phenomenon because he'd lived in Europe for a time. Meanwhile, when we went out to dinner here in Tucson, he's say at the end of the meal, "Hitto el spotto!" in a rather too loud voice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You're joking, right?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Note she said "used" to date.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yes. I'm just having a hard time picturing it in the first place. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              But then again, there is that guy downstream who told the waiter his date would have a white zin because the drink she chose was too strong. Maybe they're the same guy...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If someone did that on a date with me I would *definitely* stay for the rest of the date just to see if it threw up anymore stories for friends/family. Someone really did that?! Horrifying. But hilarious, too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      4. Is "sammie" an East Coast term? I don't think sammie is used too much in WA or CA.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I remember "sammich" was from Late Night with David Letterman.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: dave_c

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How I miss William Safire, and his NYT column "On Language", and he even once sent me a letter, way back when people sent letters.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Somehow the word dissection and etymology in play here has me thinking of Adam Richman's phrase, which I'm sure was recycled but it was a first for me: "There may not be an "I" in team, but there's "meat".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'll drink to that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: dave_c

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I've seen it used in Ohio (Where's that? Is that in the U.S.?) in the mid-90's.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. If you are around me and over the age of seven, here's the terms that will earn you dirty looks. Consider any term taken from the original on the list as well or else we'll be here all day.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yummy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Icky
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yucky
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Sammich
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Resto
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Rezzie
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Nom
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Tummy
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Delish

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            17 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: MandalayVA

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Yummy, icky, and yucky don't bother me and I don't know from where those words came. Tummy has been around so long it does not bother me since it is mostly only used with reference to children.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Over 150 posts here and nobody has mentioned the reason I find the word 'sammie' (sammy?) annoying. The word 'sandwich' from which I presume sammie is derived does not contain the letter 'M' anywhere! Now if Rachel Ray and others were saying "sannie" (or sanny) I'd be onboard with that ; )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Maybe we should refer to her as Rachmeee.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  i kinda thought she shortened the sort of slang word "sammich" down to "sammie"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: srsone

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ok, so where does 'sammich' come from (a word I have never used by the way)? Shouldn't 'sammich' be 'sannich'? There is no reason for the word sammich or sammie(y). Maybe they nickname for Sandra should be Sammy instead of Sandy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hey, I think I'm onto something! (I'm not on something, I swear). Instead of 'sammy' should not Rachel Ray etal be saying 'sandy' for sandwich?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      My best guess as to where "sammie" comes from, and it doesn't come from Rachel Ray, it long proceeds her. It comes from little kids who are learning to speak and to pronounce words. Sandwich, with the "ndw" sound in the middle, is a tough sound to pronounce correctly at that age of development, as are other words, like "daddy" (dah-dah).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        i dont know the exact origin of "sammich"..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        but i have heard it used for a lot longer than i have heard RR using sammie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          When "n" is directly followed by a labial sound (like b, p, f, v, or in this case "w") it can turn into "m". The "n" and the "w" end up next to one another because the "d" sound tends to disappear at the end of a syllable between two other consonant sounds.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So: "sandwich" becomes "sanwich" becomes "samwich" becomes "sammich".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            When I posted that question, I meant it in more of a rhetorical manner. I really do not care too much, it only annoys me a little. Also, I was not giving Ray any credit (blame) for the wor, she just seems to be the most prominent person that apparently uses it frequently.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't care how the word came to be, I just find it a ludicrous word that nobody with any self-respect should ever use (no semi-colon here, I'm dead serious).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oops… my apologies for mistaking your rhetorical posing for reasoned argumentation and genuine curiosity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: DeppityDawg

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Go back and re-read my post. I answered my own question within the post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: MandalayVA

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Yes. It's not about evolving languages but its more professional not to use those words. I don't want my doctor to talk to me about my big booboo or an ouchie or owie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        More importantly, we don't want to see a doctor who uses those terms when providing advice in personal consultation or on television.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I was channel surfing and came across The Doctors (you're probably lucky enough to miss it where you are) but I had to turn the channel when one talked about a vijayjay (I have no idea how it's spelled but cutesy is bad enough when it comes to food).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          oh, i do! i do!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: MandalayVA

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          What if 'nom' is used for comedic effect, mimicking the lolcats and dogs?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            My son was telling that in linguistics class the teacher asked what the prefix "nom" stood for and one kid said, "Delicious...as in nom nom nom." It got a good laugh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Way back when, while in school, I would chew on my pen. It tasted pretty good (probably the paint used on the stock). Could I call it a "nom de plume," or a "nom nom nom de plume?"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        4. I do it all the time - bastardize language proper, that is; so this post made me shudder in shame. I'm positive everyone hates my writing now.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I should prolly go stand in the corner for an awfully long time, to think about what I've done.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Before I eat a sammie, that is; and go out to get cigs w/ a brolly on hand because it looks like it might drizzurp a little. I'll make sure i've got plenty o' cheddah in my pocket to pay The Man At The Deli. :O
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Have a great, safe Labor Day, y'all.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Marci

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: mamachef

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes, you *PROBABLY* should go hang your head in shame, Marci....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But not before you share that sammie with meeeeeee!!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mamachef

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              i just had a grilled cheese sammie with an egg on top. croque mammie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                For brekkie to boot. I shall emoticon now. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Oh dear. 'croque mammie' is gonna get some use here, that's good. LOLOMGWTFBBQ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    BBQ means... ???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    :P

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Nom nom nom

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Wow.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  An awful lot of people have an awful lot of hangups.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Lighten up guys. You'll live longer and enjoy it more. I promise.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  My ham slug sammich is getting cold, so I gotta run ...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: DoobieWah

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I thought this was the lightened-up thread.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Fibber McGee

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      you mean, "litened-up" thread, don't you?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Oh. Ha ha. Hahahahaha. Brahahaha. AAAAAAhahahahaa.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sorry. *wiping eyes.*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well done. Which is good in this case.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. It's a false cuteness....people who use "sammie," when your guard is down, also show you pictures of their cat.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      13 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: beevod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LOLOL (no, that's not lawlawl)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: beevod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oh contraire. The word "sammie" has never crossed my lips!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: beevod

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            your point?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: mariacarmen

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hardly cats playing poker...at least Little Veggo has good posture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Who said anything about cats playing poker?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'm suggesting that with 3 more cats, we can get up a kittie poker game. I think they could run circles around a pack of doggie poker-playing wannabees. Cats are smart.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Yeah. They're so smart they'll just figure out a way to snag the money from the dog's poker table and go out and buy catnip and fresh cream without having to sit for a portrait picture of them at a table smoking cigars and getting sick like the dogs do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      And maybe some smoked salmon, and fresh tuna and a few shrimp, also. Gooood kitty.....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Recall the expression "landing on cat's feet in the night"? Only goood kitties do that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindaWhit

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        But hey, at least the Bulldogs really, really like those cigars, even if they have to sit for the portrait, with cards between their toes!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Yeah, Bill but they cheat. I have the whole set of six. Some pass cards under the table, others are rubberneckin' !

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Cheers, amigo.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Veggo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I agree. My Bulldogs cheat too, and usually against the neighbor's black Lab. Not sure how a black Lab can be outmatched by Bulldogs, but then he sees them as individual dogs, and they are all in this together, so it's like being tag-teamed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Labs are easily outmatched by almost anybody- too trusting, too obsequious. JMHO

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Obviously, the case here, though I am not THAT quick to place my Bulldogs above ANY breed - but I love them dearly!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Next time over, I will keep whispering, "do not trust the Bulldogs - do not trust the Bulldogs... "

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. Living in Boston, I have grown to assume that anyone, anywhere, who types out the non-words "lobstah" or "chowdah" is an idiot.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. Whatever. Cannot recall ever using anything but sandwich.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Same for restaurant - no resto, no resta, and nothing similar. I will type restaurants, and be done with it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  YES! Who started the pseudo-cool "resto" thing? Icky!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sandylc

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Not at all sure.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I feel the same thing about "sommelier." They are not "sommies," or anything else.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I think that it started when people began speaking in "texting-speak," and forgot how to type?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. Ya, sammie is a terrible word. Sammich is much better. "GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN WHERE YOU BELONG AND MAKE ME A SAMMICH WOMAN" rolls off the tongue much better that way.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  6 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: twyst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Why do I think you are going to hear about that line?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: al b. darned

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      haha. I was obviously kidding, but the funny thing is there was a whole bunch of responses under it last night. When I woke up this morning they had removed all the rebuttals and left the original post. I guess that particular mod wants a sammich!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: twyst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Maybe they mentioned Fonzie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: twyst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          LOL. I guess the implied misogyny of the image of telling *your woman* to *get in the kitchen* and make you a sammich is preferable to the glaring misogyny of referring to the thing worn by people who really practice it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At least you said "woman" and not the B word- jeez, what do they want from us???

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: twyst

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Insert a great big grin in this spot!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Now, I would never have said that, but now am sad that I did not revisit this thread during that brief time - just to see.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. Yes, we're all adults, but I find the use of "baby talk," even when speaking to babies is just wrong. Why force a child to learn two words? First, you tell him it's a "sammie," and then you have to teach him the correct term. We never, ever spoke baby talk to our son, and he has always been extremely well-spoken with an excellent vocabulary from a very young age. We don't even talk baby talk to our dog, lol! "Dixie, would you like to go out?" is followed by a bark if the answer is in the affirmative. So since I won't speak baby talk to my dog, I certainly won't speak it to a child!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. I thought sammie was bad until I heard people say "brekky."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          25 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Bob W

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Oh yeah. Let's open that can of worms, shall we? Maybe we can break 500 posts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Bob W

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I could be wrong but isn't brekkie a UK thing?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                you are right, see my post further up somewhere in here, we Brits shorten a lot of words. Choccies is another we use for chocolates as in I bought a lovely box of choccies for after din dins tonight.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Bickies (sp?), too, for biscuits.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    yep bikkies!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Ha ha, forgot biccies. (sp???) And I think at least one person on this thread has mentioned 'sarnie' - I wonder if the sammich-hatahs also hate sarnie - a word that has a)been in use a lot longer than sammich and b)is used by the English-English, the best English speakers of all. (sarcasm!)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Seriously, tho, sarnie Yea or nay? Butty? Is butty OK?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        sarnie is used a lot, butty is a northern English word, not used down south.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          But isn't a butty a particular kind of "sammie";-), either chip or crisp?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I had no idea how bikkies are spelled and have never seen it written--you don't know how many variations I played with before I went with bickies.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            yes a butty is a sandwich, often chips (fries) but any sandwich can be a butty I think but I am not Northern so I wouldn't use the term. I guess like sub and hoagie in the US.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'd go with bickies but maybe it's biccies!!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hah, and the 'butty' refers to the butter. Or perhaps, the bread and butter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've always been told that the "butty" refers to the bread itself - the northern version of a bap.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Man, that has to be one of the weirdest sentences I've ever written.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  ah but up north (England) it's pronounced as in foot, but don't forget to pronounce the t sound not a d sound as Americans would!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sunshine842

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Woah, woah, woah. Hold on there. Both butty and bap are in fact scottish terms and are not interchangeable. A butty is a butty and a bap is a bap. Fuck.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What exactly is a sarnie and what is the source/history of the term?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: John E.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                far as I know it's just short for sandwich but why it's not a sandy .........?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I think no "sandy" because many people do not pronounce the word correctly in the first place. Many say samwich, hence, "sammie".
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The new NFNS The Sandwich King (Jeff?) said samwich/samwiches all the time, which kinda got on my nerves.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I wonder where the whole "samwich" pronunciation started, as "sandwich" with the "n" the the "d" is not hard to say. I mean, no one says, "I'll going to go play in the sam box".

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: smartie

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    If 'sammy' annoys me, 'sarney' would drive me absolutely batty! ; )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Now, I am anything but a UK "local," but do spend a lot of time there. That term is totally foreign to me. Cannot recall ever hearing it, and when mentioned above, just had to read down, to get some reference.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Bill Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You do spend a lot of time there, I recall from our previous conversation on English sparklers, but obviously you don't spend your days reading copies of BBC Food and its affiliated magazines! I have seen it there in the past few years, and originally read the word in some sort of food guide - perhaps the Good Pub Guide. Definitely not a word used in South Wales, I'd add.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: lemons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have just never seen it, or was not in charge of my faculties, to remember it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            We catch some TV, but then most reading is in Financial Times, so maybe not the best vehicle to learn some of the terms?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PS - as we work with, and greatly enjoy the company of, many wonderful residents of the UK, I try to pick up little nuances, to use in their presence. Still, alien to this "daft Yank."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. re: Bob W

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Never had a Sammie for brekky?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: DPGood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm not sure, but when I do have brekkie, it's *wakey, wakey, eggs & bakey* time... :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Interesting. Just a couple hours after din din, it's *nani nani* time for me. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: DPGood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Ever had a sammie for brekky in a resto?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, now you are taking it to the limits...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Please tell me you have all seen Aziz Ansari's 'Food Nicknames' bit on Park & Recreation. If not, watch.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DYzm...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          (or look up 'Food Nicknames Aziz Ansari' on Youtube


                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          )He even has more of these ridiculous nicknames on his Twitter TomHaverfoods. Hilarious. Ridiculous food nicknames at their finest.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: hoosierfood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Bless your heart for posting the most sensible response to this thread (save for that I've now gone down a Parks and Recreation K-hole on YouTube when I should be doing other things).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              What's a K-hole?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: EWSflash

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                trance-like state that slip into coma, caused by a certain controlled substance best not explored.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Lizard

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                One of the better drug references I've seen on CH. ;)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              3. re: hoosierfood

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Thank you for the warning. I have now blocked every URL, and all search criteria, that might link to any such site. I do not want to go there - sorry.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              4. On the tail end of all this: there's a comedian who does a routine about going to a drive-through for a burger and the man at the counter asks her what she wants on that sammitch, and she says, Oh, just the usual - Amfinny.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: mamachef

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Am I the only one who's to dumb to get it?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: acgold7

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    No. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Is she saying 'I'm fine'? *shrug*

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: montrealeater

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      No, the name of the man at the counter is Anthony.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Mr Taster

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Mr Taster

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        That's how I read it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                2. yes we're all adults but if I wanna call it a wich or sam or cleveland or janice, I can.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BTW: I call it a sandwich but I'm just sayin

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: iL Divo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Lol! Henceforth, anything served from my kitchen between two slices of bread will be referred to as "janice"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LoBrauHouseFrau

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      hahahahahah, you're funny...................LOBrau.....................bet you cook good German food, I LOVE that cuisine :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. ....or another more serious response:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    in the grand scheme of things if the worst thing that happened to me today was that someone referred to a sandwich as a Sammie, then nothing bad happened to me today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    this doesn't even register in importance as a whole number, it's that minuscule to me and therefore measures in the - minus

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    3 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: iL Divo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      But initial post has sparked an interesting discussion. Amusing too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: sueatmo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ......yea, it's amazing what gets peoples' ire up

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: iL Divo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I love your perspective! And I totally agree.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      3. If it can love you back, then you're allowed to add that "ee" sound -- like Susie Or Tommy or even puppy or budgie. But not sandwiches or vegetables!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        14 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Well, clearly you've not had a good sammie lately because a good sammie loves you back in spades. :)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Haha I *knew* someone would point that out! Words are wonderful, food is wonderful.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              They are indeed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Sammies will sacrifice its existence to make you feel better..... not your puppy nor your budgie.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              now you've got me a little worried, are you a cyber pro?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: iL Divo

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                iL Divo, I don't know what that means, so I don't think I am!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I'd write you in private but this site doesn't offer a private messaging system.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Can bhindee bhajee love you back? Hard to pronounce without using that lovable "ee" sound...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: prima

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Cayceee Anthoneee==lovable person..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Wiley1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Ya, not sure I'm convinced about the rule of the lovable "ee". ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "If it can love you back, then you're allowed to add that "ee" sound -- like Susie Or Tommy or even puppy or budgie. But not sandwiches or vegetables!"

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Wiley1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      prima and Wiley1 --

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If the "ee" sound is already there, fine, my rule doesn't apply.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      It's *adding* it that changes things, like horse/horsey, blanket/blankey.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ok, fair enough. ;-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: blue room

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          ditto

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Wiley1

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I like the shortform on the news crawl...SPOX

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. Most of the new replies that kick this thread off again have nothing at all to do with food, so we think it has probably run its course. We're going to lock it now.