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SS / Disc Clad Bottom

c
chefwong Sep 1, 2011 07:26 AM

Who out there makes disc cladded bottoms that go to the edge....

Just checking, aside from the Atlantis series - both the Apollo and Sitram Catering are both alum. disc bottoms that don't go to the edge.

I suppose it's the fact the Atlantis is copper disc based, that's it encapsulated and wrapped to the edge....love this detail.

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  1. r
    RGC1982 Sep 1, 2011 05:57 PM

    Demeyere Atlantis is the only one I know of that has the disk go to the very edge. It is my favorite cookware.

    What kind of cooktop are you using? I have some Paderno Grand Gourmet and Sitram, and don't have any issues on my ceramic cooktop with "hot rings" (which, I think, is a phantom issue unless you are cranking up the gas too high).

    1. j
      jshawn2 Sep 1, 2011 06:56 PM

      delete

      1. m
        Miss Priss Sep 2, 2011 07:47 AM

        Maybe I don't challenge my cookware enough, but my most-used pieces (including a Sitram Catering pan) all have aluminum or copper discs that don't cover the entire bottom surface, and I've never had a problem with scorching at the edges, whether cooking on a gas range or an electric one. That being said, Demeyere Atlantis is gorgeous stuff and there are at least a dozen other reasons to desire it.

        1. w
          will47 Sep 2, 2011 04:16 PM

          Sitram Catering is copper disk, not aluminum disk. Sitram Profiserie is aluminum. Having a hard time reading Demeyere's materials, but I think only certain types of pots have the "InductoSeal" bottom (which has a 2 mm copper disk as part of it) vs. the "7 ply" bottom which is aluminum and stainless.

          Also, Demeyere's price point means that you could just as well buy fully clad (or even copper) cookware for the same or less money. Not saying Demeyere isn't great, but most of the other "disc" bottom cookware isn't in the same price class, so I don't think it's really a fair comparison (I don't love the weight of Demeyere either).

          Personally, I do occasionally run into problems with disk bottoms, especially when using a small burner or if I have the heat too high. But I do think it's possible to work pretty well with them as long as you're mindful of not cranking up the burner too high.

          Answering your direct question a little more:

          * Winco stainless steel pots (fairly low in cost) have an aluminum disk bottom which goes to the edge, though it slopes up towards the edge rather than going over it the way Demeyere does.
          * I believe "Update" brand commercial cookware is the same.
          * At least some of Vollrath's SS lines; Optio line, for example, maybe Centurion

          If you poke around on kitchen supply websites, should be easy to find some more, though it's not always easy to tell from the photos.

          6 Replies
          1. re: will47
            r
            RGC1982 Sep 2, 2011 08:01 PM

            I have Demeyere Atlantis pieces that are both clad (conical sauteuse) and disk bottom (Dutch oven, saucpan). They change the construction to best utilize the technology that fits the use of the pot. This means that within the same line, you will find clad pieces and disk bottomed pieces.

            I disagree with your perspective/recommendation that the price point of Demeyere would make it a better decision for the OP to buy clad instead of disk bottom, because it sounds as though you think that clad is superior to disk bottom. This is not true. It is different, and Demeyere's use of both types of construction within the same line should be proof enough of that. Depending upon your cooktop and what the pot is meant to be used for, one is a better choice than the other at different times. Demeyere did not decide on one construction and ride it to the marketing sunset, like many other manufacturers. I use both types of pots all the time, and really do see a difference when I choose one over the other for different applications. I love these pots and consider them to be my favorites.

            Now, the weight issue: Yes, they are heavy. So is copper and so is cast iron. In fact, good copper may easily outweigh its cast iron or enameled cast iron counterparts. If you want lightweight pots, go aluminum. Or cheap. I realize that one day these pots may be too heavy for me, but all of my pots are heavy. That just seems to be the way they are all made. The only lightweight pots I have are anodized aluminum. Not my favorite, except for my beloved AC LTD griddle.

            Finally, I do agree that copper is a luxury these days, but not everyone is ready to sign up for a lifetime of handwashing and meticulous care. I have copper too -- Falk, Mauviel and Bourgeat. All are wonderful, but I don't use them every day. Why? Because I get similar results from my great SS cookware, and it is easier to care for.

            I have cooked for forty years, a lot, on gas and electric coil and ceramic, and I have never had a hot ring problem with a disk bottomed pan. Then again, my pans have from 5 mm to 7 mm aluminum disks, so this may be why. No $80 sets of cheap cookware around here. It may all just come down to the cook's technique.

            1. re: RGC1982
              kaleokahu Sep 2, 2011 08:23 PM

              Hi, RGC:

              It sounds like you know a lot about the Atlantis line. Which of the pans have the 2mm copper layer clad inside of the SS? I ask because I examined a manufacturer's cutaway the other day, and was surprised to find a pretty large void above the copper layer, where the inside corner radius makes the turn. This void would run all the way around the base of the pan. It all may be "hermetically sealed", but given the different coefficients of expansion, having voids between layers of metals in pans just strikes me as problematic.

              Have you had any problems with this line?

              Aloha,
              Kaleo

              1. re: kaleokahu
                w
                will47 Sep 2, 2011 11:48 PM

                http://www.demeyere.be/media/demeyere...

                says:
                "For the straight saucepans, straight sauté pans, soup kettles and pots of Atlantis, Demeyere uses walls of stainless steel, combined with a heat-conducting 7 layer base: InductoSeal®."*

                "For Demeyere skillets (frying pans), conic sauté pans, simmering pots, grill pan and woks, a multilayer material is used up to the edge: 7-PlyMaterial®."
                (p8)

                * InductoSeal is the one with 2mm of copper, as well as two thin silver layers.

                I have not used it, nor do I know for sure how the construction works, but based on the diagram in their literature, I'm guessing the "void" is actually stainless steel, rather than air.

                1. re: kaleokahu
                  r
                  RGC1982 Sep 3, 2011 01:21 PM

                  Will posted the specs for Demeyere, so no need to answer that.

                  That is not a void. It is stainless steel. There are no air layers in Demeyere. The picture in the cutaway is deceptive. It is layer upon layer of metal. Demeyere is some of the sturdiest stuff on the planet. It weight and price support that notion.

                2. re: RGC1982
                  w
                  will47 Sep 2, 2011 11:44 PM

                  RGC - I think you misunderstood my post. I specifically didn't say clad construction was superior (in fact, I own and use cookware with both types of construction, and I like commercial cookware, most of which does not use clad construction).

                  What I said is that you can't compare Demeyere to most *other* disk-bottom cookware on the market (which tends to be mostly either lower-end consumer products or commercial kitchenware). It seems more fair to compare it to other cookware in its price class, rather than comparing it to something that's 1/2 or 1/3 the cost, simply because they share a similar method of construction*. I wasn't trying to imply that Demeyere would not come out ahead in such a comparison. I've heard almost exclusively good things about their products, though I haven't cooked with them myself (I've handled it in the store).

                  I don't mind heavy cookware, and some of my cookware is pretty heavy. However, for, say, a large skillet or sauté pan, I don't want something that's too heavy to toss comfortably. I'm neither old nor weak, and I still find Demeyere to be a bit on the heavy side for that kind of use.

                  * e.g., Falk 3.5 qt saucepan + lid: $380 ($295 + $85) (though actually you'd pay $342 after 10% discount for paying > $250)
                  Demeyere Atlantis 3.2 qt saucepan with lid: ~ $200 US
                  Sitram Catering 3.3 qt saucepan + lid: ~ $99 US ($73 - pot + $26 lid)
                  Sitram Profiserie 3.3 qt saucepan + lid: ~$68 US ($47 + $21)
                  Vollrath Optio 4 qt saucepan with lid: ~ $34 US
                  Update 3.5 qt saucepan with lid: ~ $24 US

                  Falk 4.5 qt sauté pan + lid: ~ $520 US ($395 + 125) ($468 after discount)
                  Demeyere Atlantis 4.2 qt sauté pan with lid: ~ $380 US
                  Sitram Catering 4.9 qt sauté pan + lid: ~ $158 US ($111 + $47)
                  Sitram Profiserie 4.9 qt sauté pan + lid: ~$103 US ($73 + $30)
                  Vollrath Optio 4 qt sauté pan + lid: ~ $42 ($33 + $9)

                  1. re: will47
                    r
                    RGC1982 Sep 3, 2011 01:24 PM

                    I actually don't use Demeyere fry pans. I prefer cast iron, and when I don't use cast iron I have two anodized aluminum Calphalons (junk, frankly because they warp slightly when heated and don't sit flush to the cooktop surface, but still somewhat usable), and a fabulous DeBuyer oval non-stick, of all things. I am not a tosser, so I prefer heavier pans. Never liked the idea of tossing food, it just seemed to have the potential to make a bigger mess.

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