why is there voting on tailgate recipes/ contest allready?

[gingershelley]

The rules state that voting will take place between Sept. 14 and Sept 18... but there are votes - many! - and recipes already up on the contest page.

What gives, Chow staff?

[HillJ]

We loved the photo montage and contest report, Meredith.
Now it's time for my family to try some of the winning recipes.

[mudaba]

Hello everyone, I just want to bring things full circle on this post and share the winner's page, plus behind the scenes judging, for this tailgating contest: http://www.chow.com/food-news/91851/b...

We tried to be really explicit in how we went about this so that there would be no confusion. And having tasted all of the recipes I can say that I totally agree with the choice made based on flavor.

Thanks to everyone who took part in contest! Meredith of CHOW

[gingershelley]

Thank you so much Meredith for the follow up article! Great to feel like my concerns were heard, and to hear how things went down in the Chowhound testing and voting.

Bravo!

And, P.S., after my complaint about you all not following the rules, I should have read them more closely and realized I had a chance at being a runner-up winner after all, even if I didn't have 500 people voting for me:(. My bad - next time!

[The Chowhound Team]

Hey, folks, we've removed some posts attacking other posters personally from this thread. It's fine if you want to share your opinions on the contest rules, but please avoid sharing your opinions on your fellow hounds.

There were some additional posts that unfortunately also had to go because they didn't make sense without context. If anyone wants their post back to edit and repost, you can write to us at [e-mail]

[blue room]

Well I'm heartsick and angry that I'm out $2000.00 !

(That was a joke.)

Here's my real post:

Aw, c'mon -- a recipe contest that can be won by *any* strategy other than inventing a delicious dish just isn't fair or worthy!

If a recipe has a winning 3000 votes, but doesn't include the sponsor's ingredient until it is edited in on the last day -- everyone involved in that deal should feel pretty lousy about it, but it could happen with this system.

A recipe gets many many votes because the author has noted that the $, if won, will go to support a good cause -- nice, but just not right.

I will keep trying for the (lesser) prizes, it's fun and exciting, but shame on cheaters!

What's wrong with a real contest, that really shows off the sponsor's product, that everyone feels good about, that makes everyone try real hard, that lets the losers feel truly congratulatory towards the winners, and that results in a tasty new dish?

[greygarious]

Mine was one of the three finalists in the muffin recipe contest, which I think was structured better than the two that have followed. No voting allowed until all the recipes were in and CH picked the three contenders. Having no family and a small social circle, I had no chance of winning in a popularity format. I have no idea if the winning recipe was chosen because people tried it and/or liked it, or because the entrant prevailed upon a large coterie of relatives and colleagues to vote. I totally disagree with contests that permit more than one vote per voter.

[HillJ]

I totally disagree with contests that permit more than one vote per voter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

greyg, do you mean voting per day or during the run of the entire contest?

[greygarious]

I mean once per contest - like for President or Mayor (unless you live in places like Chicago or Texas!). I'm all for choosing based on merit, not how many people you know. But I'm realistic enough not to expect the "Fakecook" trend to change in what remains of my lifetime.

[HillJ]

I'd like to see the recipe demonstrated on CHOW in video form. The story behind the recipe, the demonstrated steps, the end result...this to me best utilizes the technology avail and adds a personal touch to the entry. So while voting is important (one vote a day, waiting until all entries are received before voting begins), I'd really like to see video entries submitted instead of written submissions on a website that has ALL the tools at it's disposal to make a video recipe contest happen.

[gingershelley]

HillJ,

I certainly agree that voting should not start until all recipes are recieved; (that is why I thought there were voting block dates on the rules page - so that you could submit to a fair playing field) - how the voting is done has been well-commented on by a few chowhounds who seem to know something about how contests are run on webpages... I was interested in the thread about 'putting contests on Facebook' only; it sounded like there might be a way to have a more even playing field with better perameters?

That would be good.

I do like the idea tho, of a video recipe contest - however, I think that would have to be planned specific - almost like a 'Chowhound Recipe Contest Video Channel Star?"

I am in!

[greygarious]

Requiring videos would preclude entries from people who don't have the electronic equipment necessary, camera presence, or a kitchen conducive to filming. My tiny kitchen has no island or work table. A video would show me with my back to the camera, using my cooktop as a work counter.

[HillJ]

greyg, not necessarily. It's just an idea.

Let's keep in mind that there are requirements, prereq's for entering any contest and sometimes it will keep some people from entering but there are a few workarounds. As for "on camera" plenty of video recipes don't even show peoples faces or people at all... just a closeup of the recipe demonstrated on camera, step by step. But the wide variety of entries does make for an interesting experience. Maybe the CHOW kitchen can handle the video demonstrating, maybe not. But if you watch the array of CHOW videos currently avail in their video library you'll see what I'm casually referring to. I think video would be fun, bring a different energy to the contest, keep it honest, keep it original and keep the viewers engaged. Afterall, CHOW is about the food, the recipes, how to prepare a recipe. And, corporate sponsorship (product) would be ON CAMERA.

[mudaba]

I'm very intrigued by this whole conversation. It really opens up the mind as to contest possibilities. As a video producer, I'm obviously a big fan of the video medium, but feel that I'm really in the minority of wanting to actually create videos (and HillJ, I love that you're in that group as well). I wonder if there might be a way in the future to encourage people to demonstrate their recipe more fully, or give photos and videos to "fill in the gaps." The biggest issue is always trying to keep the playing field as level as possible, so that everyone can enter relatively easily. I wonder how many Chowhounds are on Facebook? Would there be complaints that using "likes" on Facebook was precluding them? I got a phone call from a woman in Austin who was simply having trouble figuring out how to upload her recipe for the contest--looking for the right upload buttons, etc. I am imaging how much time I would spend on the phone if people were trying to figure out how to upload videos, etc. Not to mention the technical work. If we thought we were having trouble with the voting technicalities, then video upload might be a whole new world of (potential) confusion.

At the same time, I love the idea of pushing the boundaries of what contests could be, and setting a new standard for others on the idea of the classic recipe contest, and these ideas really get the mind going. Keep 'em coming! And thank you again.

Meredith

[HillJ]

I hear ya, there are a few challenges directing new rules; new ideas. But what prevents the CHOW team from handling the video part? The staff already creates CHOW tips, CHOW demonstrations, interviews guests to do the same. While the bugs for how to engage CH's entering contests on tape gets worked out there is the potential to ease into it by continuing to accept written recipe contest submissions while creating videos out of the top 10, top 5, contest winners and runners up recipes demonstrated by the CHOW team or interviewed winners on tape. Best of both mediums. Listen, I'm still mulling this idea around in my own food-world...but I keep chipping away at the challenges and the idea just wows me.

I recall when a popular snack chip company ran a "write our new product jingle" contest online. Video was the only way to submit your entry and the jingles were voted online by the public. It was hip, entertaining and really stuck out as ground-breaking for contest organizers.....probably 6 years back by now. Some of my fav jingles from those entries are still in my old brain cells. :)

[mudaba]

When it comes to video, what you're really talking about is time and man and womanpower. Each of our videos takes a significant amount of production and editing time, and it's very hard to scale them up in the time frame needed. I wonder if a video of the test kitchen describing why those chose the winner, or showing them preparing top 3 recipes and tasting them--would that help? That seems doable. But trying to shoot a bunch of contestant recipes would mean that we would have no CHOW Tips, Go-Tos, or even holiday videos this year (we're a team of 3 people currently). Don't say that we have to cancel Christmas, dear viewer.

By the way, do you ever come to San Francisco? I would love to be able to show you our process with videos someday. Meredith

[HillJ]

Meredith, I recall another conversation we shared about CHOW Obsessives (still my fav collection) when you mentioned the team, budget, etc. My brain hears: we need morer sponsors/underwriters/partners :) The test kitchen would be a enhancing way to utilize the studio space and give CH contestants more wow-factor. I like the idea. But, I agree like "Cooking with Grandma" the idea in a fuller form takes more everything :) but I tend to think big and power thru the details until I get there :) how else do you change sails? And, no..don't cancel Christmas! ;0)

As for your video process, San Fran, LA, all on my radar (family, friends colleagues). My next trip to your area is late March. Was that an invitation?

[mudaba]

Absolutely! I'd love to show you around CHOW/CH HQ. If you're coming to SF, we'll plan a time for you to come and tour the place. If you had a CHOW Tip, well then we could shoot it together then as well! Melanie Wong will be able to confirm that I try to make shoots as painless as possible (her aunt was our "Cooking with Grandma" for Chinese New Year 2011). M.

[HillJ]

Sounds like a great deal of fun! I have your contact info, so keep me in mind and around March we should touch base regarding this again.

[gingershelley]

Meredith - I LOVE the idea of the CHOW team demo'ing the top recipes, and also an explenation of why you chose those as the top - that would also answer some questions of vote rigging, whether people had made the recipe they voted on, etc.

We could see the recipe made, and know you all had tasted it! Good call!

I do think that having a video of a recipe as entry to a contest is doable; there are so many contests that require them now - Hawaii 5-0 season kickoff contest required one of you singing/playing the theme song.... FN Star requires one..... any compact camera and many smartphones have video capability now - I think people are getting much better at these things;)!

[rworange]

The idea of the Chow team doing a video of the top recipe (if the submitter doesn't want to or is technologically unable to do so) is a good idea. Mainly because there is so much theft of content on the web, that having to actually produce the recipe might cut down on some of that.

It is always a pleasure to see people passionate about their interests ... in this case videos ...be so enthusiastic about what they enjoy doing.

On a lower level, I finally started to add photos to my restaurant reports last year. I find I hate photography, still or moving. As a result, I;'m dragging my feet on posting and four months later I suspect I may never post those last 25 restaurant reports from my time in Guatemala.

So people traviling there will miss some great restaurants because the photo thing is a pain to me. Requiring a video might mean someone who is a great cook with a great idea, might not bother because they don't have the time or interest to video.

One thing to consider is it is a bad economy. A video upfront might require people to invest in ingreidents and make a recipe they might not otherwise make.

Then again, as a final product ... nice idea. The winner and runners up either provide the video or Chow cooks up the final result for those that are video phobic.

[gingershelley]

RW,
I DO think it is reasonable to assume that someone who is submitting a recipe has MADE the recipe?
In both the post above, and a previous one on this thread you reffer to someone not buying the ingredients to a recipe they submit. I would expect that - perhaps they might know the recipe from previous times making it - they MIGHT not need to buy the ingredients and cook it, but that would be an exception, not the rule.
I don't believe we are interested in contests where people simply look up a recipe in a book or online, think it sounds good, substitute in whatever 'brand x' is sponsoring the contest, and enter that recipe as their own? THAT is plagerism, pure and simple.
Purchasing ingredients, cooking, tasting, and adjusting are part of the recipe creation process, and I would not presume to skip them for a contest, or for making something original simply to serve to my friends and family:)

[rworange]

To submit a recipe to a contest in written form you may not need to make it. If you look at most of the submissions for the current contest these are recipes they have made in the past.

To submit a recipe in video for, you have to buy the ingredients and make it.

As to plagerism, I assume Chow checks that before awarding prizes. . .

[HillJ]

Heck, this latest recipe contest doesn't even require that the entries include something from the KC Masterpiece® products line. As sponsors, that's pretty generous.

[ginparis]

I think we can conclude from all this that the real aim is to get page views for the sponsor. Chow as much said so in an earlier reply. They don't really care how this contest is played nor who wins. The sponsor sees page views, Chow has a lot of new, free recipes and that's the bottom line. I want to see how this one comes out and then this hound is off to another food site to see if they play nicer.

[HillJ]

ginparis, here's what I would recommend. Get in touch with Meredith directly. Page views aside, all legal, reportable games of chance have rules/guidelines that must be followed. And CHOW/CBS/contest sponsors have every reason to make sure that their name is associated with a solid run contest. So, assume nothing and ask anything you feel you need to.

[gingershelley]

HillJ,
I must point out that I started this whole thread BECAUSE there was a discrepancy from the posted 'official rules'! And that actually wasn't handled very well by CHOW... they simply said 'oh, I guess the rules were wrong". The rules stated that voting in the tailgate contest would commence on a specific day in Sept., but there were already recipes with 100's of votes; that is why I wrote the question to the website. Their response was that the rules were 'wrong'.
I actually had questions on the legality of that, but I am no expert, just a disapointed hound.

[HillJ]

I follow and I had a similar concern when the Blue Moon beer contest ran and asked offline directly to CHOW what was happening and offline a CHOW staffer replied.

Which is what I suggested you do here.

I am disappointed as well, gingershelley-perhaps ironically, we're responding to one another over the same contest concerns.

[DiningOutWithGeorge]

HillJ, went the rules first posted, I swear it stated that you have to use a KC Masterpiece product in the recipe, but as time went on, that rule seemed to have disappeared......

[HillJ]

DOWG, the winners have been chosen-time to congratulate and move on.

[HillJ]

What a darn shame this is. I really thought the beer contest would set the CHOW team on a better footing with online contest games. This should be taken more seriously both in front and behind the contest rules. It's not funny when contestants and readers question how a reportable game of chance is organized.

[gingershelley]

Chowhound team: What say you to these reasonable complaints of rigged bidding?

Also, is it fair that voting started on this contest, when the RULES said you couldn't yet? Shouldn't that trigger some kind of re-start, or notice on your part as to what had transpired?

Looking forward to your FAIR and REASONABLE addressing of these concerns :)

Want to stay a loyal chowhound!

[mudaba]

Hey everyone,

I think the first thing to know about contests is that figuring out how to make them secure is very, very hard to do. We over-corrected on the Blue Moon contest, trying to lock down voting via IP addresses, and as a result had whole buildings of people who were only able to vote once! So we opted to switch over to cookie-based voting. Obviously there are drawbacks with that too: people can clear their cookies and vote twice. We are discussing whether, for future contests, we should do flash-based cookies.

Speaking on behalf of CHOW, I would love to know if any of you have experienced a functional contest voting environment! We are always looking to improve contest functionality and security, believe me. We love doing contests and are looking to do more in the future. I would be happy to explain to anyone who wants to hear about it how non-perfectable online contests truly are! Hopefully this will change in the future.

Please let me know. My email address is: [e-mail]. Thank you all for being so interested in the contest that you want to learn more,

Meredith of CHOW (formerly video, now video and ops)

[HillJ]

Meredith, I would recommend moving all CHOW contests to the Facebook account (and use the Twitter account to generate buzz) and use that framework to run entire contests. Banner it, announce it, link it on CHOW/CH but run it on FB. Corporations do this all the time with great success. The FB audience is larger, the ease of use register driven and you can use the FB wall to customize the voting rules. Use third party services like Wildfire or Votigo to implement your contest on Facebook and be sure to position it properly under their guidelines (which I have no doubt CHOW knows a thing or too about already).

http://apps.facebook.com/contestshq/c...

Oh..and use the YouTube account/CHOW video section to demonstrate the winning recipes!

[mudaba]

HillJ, Thank you for the brainstorming! The biggest issue is that advertisers (who support us, as well as pay for the cash prize for the contest) want to see the activity on our site. But who knows? Perhaps we could convince them down the line to consider a Facebook-centric contest? It's a great idea. Thanks again. We'll definitely bear it in mind. And we're glad you use our Facebook/Twitter accounts since we spend lots of time keeping them fun and up-to-date,

Meredith

[HillJ]

My pleasure, Meredith. I'd still try it. The advertisers should share your concerns for running a legal, fair game too. Utiliizing all the CHOW accounts to generate buzz, help run the contest and highlight winning entries provides three bangs for the advertisers buck :)

[rworange]

Well, it';s not sexy, it's not fun or fast ... only fairer without investing in lots of technological solutions .... and there are no secure technical solutions, even mega corporations and sensative government agencies get hacked.

In order to vote, the voter must sign up on Chow/Chowhound. That pretty much guarantees restricting one vote per id,

One comment about Facebook/Twitter., Though for work purposes I need to create pages and accounts, I don't personally have an acount because I just find too much of it a waste of time. Also knowing a lot of the security, career, legal risks about putting too much info about yourself on the web, I just don't think putting your personal stuff online is a great idea ... even restricted to family and people who are real friends.

So ..., long story ... I don't have personal Facebook or Twitter accounts. Yeah, I'm no fun.

My point here is that even to read the Chowhound Facebook pages or tweets, you need to be signed on., Could this be changed?

There are times I wouldn't mind seeing what is going on regarding certain Chowhound stuff, but like any Facebook page that requires sign on, I just don't bother.

The majority of commercial Facebook sites don't require someone to be signed on to read them, only to participate. Don't want to do that. Just want to lurk occasionally

[HillJ]

The lousy economy didn't appear to stop the public from entering the Blue Moon Beer recipe contest and several thousand dollars was awarded. A CH took home the top prize (congrats again). This current tailgate recipe contest will pay winners a total of $5,000.00.

If FB isn't anyones bag, CHOW has a YouTube account and video recipe entries (should the idea ever take flight) could be uploaded to that account for viewing, demonstration purposes, voting and announcing winners. Many contests and games of chance by corporations and national sponsors have run thru YouTube already.

And for reasons Meredith and I began discussing here visuals keep online contests fair, original, and serves the product placement beautifully. Of course this idea requires interest, cooperation and solid coordination. What doesn't?

[rworange]

Submitting a recipe is diffferent than actually having to make a dish in a video. For the first you just need to type., Foir the second you need to buy the ingredients.

You misread my post.

My comment about Chowhounds had to do with voting, not submitting recipes.

Looking at the current results are hilarious especially for those with over 1,000 votes. One such recipe was called out in the comment section about looking suspicious.

You also misread my Facebook comment. Most companies allow people to view their Facebook pages without needing an account or signing in. That is what I was asking for. Seriously, I don't have the time to be tracking down videos and being glued to stuff like this., I just want to look at some of the tweets and facebook stuff from time to time.

If you look at the current recipes, half the submissions don't even have photos, never mind videos.

If you don't want to consider the exclusionary aspect of this, fine. You like doing videos and are probably good at it. Not everyone is .

I wonder how many recipes would not be judged on the merit of the results, but rather than the quality of the video ... or how entertaining, beautiful, hip, etc the video or person putting together is. And that might be the desired result rather than the recipe. So go for it.

I've had that experience on Chowhound just with pictures with one restaurant being trashed soley because people didn't like my photos.

Though there are a few entries currently that I could make some pretty funny videos. When you are dealing with a single loaf of bread, a few pounds of bacon and a jar of mayo ,,., serves 4 ... well, you could have fun with that. I would watch it just to see someone try to bite into that thing.

Listen, IMO it is valuable to hear the comments of people who are not video phobes. What decisions are made from there are made from there. It wasn not my intent to squash your enthusiasm. As I said I found it endearingt. I like people who are passionate about stuff. I'm just saying that not everyone share that and the impact of that should be considered.

My hope would be sure, allow people to submit videos if they want just as some people are sharing photos of the recipes. For those who don't want to do that, if there is a video for the winning dishes, then let Chow do that.

I worked for a Fortune 100 company in IT and it is a real wake-up about how many customers, even wealthy ones, are technically clueless. Because of the nature of the business, that needed to be acoomodated in our applications.

And yes I realize the popularity of videos, I'm just pointing out that there is a huge segment of people who aren't there yet. The impact of that on a contest should be thought about ... and how enthusiastic a sponsor is about excluding people.

There is good reason for using the technology and options that are out there. Being involved in web design, I just like seing in used effectively and intelligently, not just because it is available.

[HillJ]

rw, you must have misunderstood bits and pieces of most of my comments throughout this thread. The idea of using video in recipe contests was a small suggestion, but sure I like the idea. Written submissions, video submissions all work. Having those recipes demonstrated by a CHOW staffer or by the submitter also works. As an option. I agree not everyone has the time, talent, equipment to submit a video but that doesnt' mean the CHOW team couldn't help.

FB has it's place on CH these days. The CHOW team has all sorts of under utilized social networking accounts. Use em I say :)

Food blogs that contain photos and videos are very popular with readers. Thousands of food bloggers are teaching themselves and learning from each other every day how to post photos, take and upload videos. So, I don't see the same ill-equipped mindset you are suggesting. This small idea engages contest participants who are interested and like you suggest as well needs all sorts of coordination. Not every contest can include every type of participant or will attract them. We know that, right. If you don't drink beer, would you submit an original recipe calling for beer? If you don't tailgate or don't enjoy tailgate fare would you necessarily enter? So, sure! there is always going to be some level of exclusion or non interest where contests are concerned.

And if it really matters to mention, you didn't step on my enthusiasm for this discussion or interest in what Meredith is talking about above. I hope more CH's will weigh in and brain storm. The contests in general need work!

[rworange]

FB has its place on every business site which is why I understand it is here. If it is underutilized it is because you need an account and be signed in to look at it. That is all I'm saying. That is not how most businesses approach the implementation of social networking.

I am just saying it doesn't seem in the interest of any business to put barriers up to any potential participants or customers. If going for videos in contests, make sure there is an option for people who can't do that to participate.

And I have worked for some places that just want a target group and don't give a damn.

The beer / tailgating as an analogy isn't the same thing and putting up a technological wall. Give consideration to that. Anyone interested in beer or whatever can submit a recipe. Someone might have a huge interest in beer or tailgaiting recipes but just doesn't have the chops to video it. That is a differect issue.

Someone might have recipe video that could go viral and get a huge amount of votes ... doesn't mean it is a good recipe. The point becomes the video rather than the recipe. One of the highest vote getters in the current contest may just be getting the votes because despite probably being inedible, it is just funny ... ot the person has tons of freinds.

And who knows ... sponsors might be pleased with viral recipes (heh) ... if it gets their product attention.

[HillJ]

Valid points all, rwo. Thanks for brainstorming and offering a valuable perspective.

[Caitlin McGrath]

HillJ, I think you are referring to Jason1, the hound who was a runner up. The grand prize winner in the Blue Moon contest ("chosen from among the top three vote-getting recipes"), has no activity in her profile other than the posting of the Blue Moon recipe, and the same is true of the other two runners up. They likely registered in order to enter the contest.

[HillJ]

Thank you, Caitlin yes I was. Online recipe contests are open to the public within the allowing states outlined in contest rules and more recently have included pre-registration requirements by the sponsoring site by remaining an active site "member" is another thing altogether.

Like write-in contests submitted offline, no long term commitment is required of the folks entering pre or post contest play even if they registered to participate in the contest.

[Caitlin McGrath]

Understood. I was responding to where you said above, "a CH took home top prize." I assumed you were thinking of Jason, whom I'd seen post in the thread on HC, and had to check my recollection of the prize he won. Good on him.

[HillJ]

Absolutely, good on Jason.

[DeborahL]

Hi again gingershelley. The rules have been updated to reflect the correct voting info:
http://www.chow.com/contests/kcmasterpiece-recipe-contest/rules

And the contest itself has always stated that voting began when the contest opened:
http://www.chow.com/contests/kcmaster...

Sorry again for the confusion.

Deborah from CHOW

[gingershelley]

Thank you for clarifying... now I just have to get those recipes perfected and posted for voting:)

[greygarious]

This format is like the beer recipe contest that just ended - the main winner being an entry that receives the most votes and the voting is essentially dependent on how large the entrant's social network is. In the beer recipe contest, it was obvious from the time frame that the people voting would not have had the chance to actually MAKE the recipe they were voting for, if they even cook. Many recipes were not the entrants' creations, just copied from others, with a brand name slapped on. Hopefully in the future there will be some merit-based competitions, not just "Fakecook" popularity contests.

[ginparis]

I think we're also seeing the same questionable voting in the KC contest as in the Blue Moon contest. People can either reset their cookies to vote many times on the same day or they can vote from other browsers. One recipe yesterday went from 770 votes to over 1400 within hours. Over 400 votes were added to that recipe within 20 mins! Tell me that's not some duplicate voting!

[DeborahL]

Sorry for the confusion gingershelley. Actually, voting is open for the same time frame as the entry period. So voting began as soon as the contest began, and voting will end at the same time as the contest entry period ends.

Deborah from CHOW

[gingershelley]

So then will someone please officially amend the official rules to reflect that please:)

A fair playing field for all.....