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Jim Leff
Aug 24, 2011 07:43 PM
Same photographer, same restaurant, god these fried pork dumplings ("crispy pork buns") look great:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cordandm...
Why isn't everyone eating there right now?
›34 Replies-
re: Jim Leff
Porthos
Aug 24, 2011 11:29 PM
Jim, I'm getting totally lost here in this discussion. And I think here I'm going to have to pull a JL and Ipse and try to clarify the nomenclature.
Your initial post of "Crispy Pork Bun" looks to be accurately identified by Peripatetic as pan-fried sticky rice patties aka xoi chien. Hats off to the very observant AAQjr for recognizing the pickled carrot and daikon as Vietnamese condiments and hats off to Peripatetic for reaching into the internet abyss and pulling off the matching photos and descriptions. Very impressive.
Now the shui jian bao you're referring to I believe is the same thing as the shen jian bao KK is referring to above which more accurately fits the description "crispy pork buns" and is what you've shown in the second link. But the two are totally difference things (Vietnamese vs Chinese cuisine).
I've never had the former (xoi chien) but for the latter (shen jian bao) my go to spot is Dean Sin World.
Photo Courtesy of Yelp:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/l7zwbj...-
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re: Jim Leff
Porthos
Aug 25, 2011 07:48 PM
Gasp! Jim, my word alone no longer good enough?! Can't we just go back to the days where we freely exchanged Funky Broome (RIP) recs? ;)
Let us know the next time you're in LA. You'll love Dean Sin World's shen jian bao...and if it's Taiwanese grub you want, then we'll be sure to swing you by Indian afterwards...
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Dean Sin World
306 N Garfield Ave # 2, Monterey Park, CA-
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re: JThur01
Peripatetic
Aug 25, 2011 10:06 PM
Agreed, though there's about one night a week that Indian isn't slammed. :(
Huge Tree and SinBala are my other Taiwanese faves these days.
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re: Porthos
Jim Leff
Aug 29, 2011 09:17 PM
9-10 years ago is nothing for me! I was Rip Van Winkled for a decade or so keeping this place (more or less) together!
I am, by the way, completely and utterly confused about the buns in this thread. I'll trust that you guys have figured it out. But has anyone tried both buns yet?
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re: Jim Leff
Mr Taster
Aug 29, 2011 10:06 PM
The buns (not the rice cakes) are sheng jian bao. They're basically oversized pork xiaolongbao ("soup dumplings") but made with a bready wrapper instead of a noodley one (but are both considered bao/buns because of the shape, with the twist at the top), and are pan fried. Theoretically they're also supposed to have soup inside them, although the amount of soup depends entirely on the skill of the bao maker. More often than not I find the soup is re-sorbed back into the bready interior of the bun. They're a super popular night market food in Taiwan but I believe they have their origins in Shanghai (Dean Sin World is, first and foremost, a Shanghainese pastry shop and restaurant second). But I've seen a whole lot more shengjianbao in Taiwan than I ever did in Shanghai.
nb... SJB is a relatively common thing to find in LA's San Gabriel Valley (and particularly in comparison to xoi chien.) A comparison of the two, while a delicious way to spend your time, is a bit random. They're really two very different things... a bit like doing a taste test between hamburgers and hot dogs. Once you get past the grilled meat-on-specialized-bread similarities, you have to stretch your creative brain to find elements to compare and contrast. In fact I'd say a similarly delicious exercise would be to contrast xoi chien and hamburgers. Doesn't make sense, but I'd do it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=sheng+...
Mr Taster
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re: Mr Taster
Peripatetic
Aug 30, 2011 01:57 AM
"I was Rip Van Winkled for a decade or so keeping this place (more or less) together!"
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Your work to create and grow CH is still appreciated. I wish it had been around when I was living in NYC (I moved to England in 1996). I still managed to find many great places (logged many hours on the Flushing Line), but I'm sure I missed many others.-
re: Peripatetic
Jim Leff
Aug 30, 2011 09:09 AM
Peripatetic, I miss plenty, too. Nobody knows it all....or even close.
Unfortunately, that perspective is still pretty rare. Most people still think restaurants (and lots of other things) are an "efficient market"....i.e., if there were great ones, we'd somehow KNOW about it.
I saw that wasn't the case. Countless gems utterly under-radar, ripe for picking. That was the reason for the site. And it helped, though still lots of people (even some on this site) complain about how there's nothing good to eat in a given nabe, area, or city. Always folks who never actually got off their butts to ferret around. At best, they'd try Zagat options. Sigh.
Mr. Taster: you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting we compare the apple to the orange. Rather, these photos make both these items look slammingly good. I'm wondering if they actually are (if I were in LA, I'd be out the door in a flash to try both!).
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re: Jim Leff
Mr Taster
Aug 30, 2011 10:00 AM
SJB can be very, very good. What's not to like? It's pan fried bread (crispy on the bottom, soft and steamy inside) stuffed with flavorful seasoned pork and (hopefully) hot soup inside. However, I've not yet found a place in LA that makes them consistently good, but to be fair, I haven't set my mind to it. I've had the XLB but never the SJB at Dean Sin World, but I'd bet that's probably my best bet... I'll have to try them this weekend).
The shengjianbao at kang kang/shau mei tends to have an odd sweetness to the pork filling that I don't really like. And the sjb at jyth restaurant (an absurdly large portion of buns, enough to easily feed 3+ people for $6 ) have been alternately spectacular and very ma ma hu hu :)
See above for my take on the xoi chien.
Mr Taster
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Dean Sin World
306 N Garfield Ave # 2, Monterey Park, CA
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re: Porthos
I thought the shen jian bao at Dean Sin World were very much like any number of other places around town, which is to say: totally over-doughy, bland, and disappointing. Provided, my gold standard is the versions of this dish I've had in Shanghai (my folks have an apt. literally around the corner from where Shao Yang's used to be) and the only place in LA where the shen jian bao is even remotely in the same ballpark is at Kang Kang, and even then, their skin is a touch too thick. But Dean Sin World - as well as JTYH and Tasty Noodle - turn out identical looking versions of this dish that all suffer from the same, aforementioned problems.
I like Dean Sin World a lot - their iced coffee was revelatory! - but I'd never suggest anyone go there for shen jian bao. Just my .02.
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Dean Sin World
306 N Garfield Ave # 2, Monterey Park, CAJTYH Restaurant
9425 Valley Blvd, Rosemead, CA 91770-
re: odub
Mr Taster
Sep 6, 2011 10:12 AM
Just tried the SJB at Dean Sin World for the first time last week.
These are smaller, more manageable than the other ones in town. To illustrate, the size were rather comparable to a supersized xiaolongbao rather than a smaller charsiu bao.
They were perfectly, wonderfully brown and crispy on the bottom, and soft and steamy on top. Just enough green onions and sesame seeds for a contrasting flavor and texture.
As for the interior, the pork was well flavored, but suffered from the same issue that I mentioned before which is that the soup reabsorbs into the interior, making a sort of bread-soaked texture rather than a soupy one. The flavor of the pork was spot on, really nice and not overly doughy.
Incidentally, I did confirm with the owner that they sell their xiaolongbao to lots of restaurants around town-- she says she sells 3,000-4,000 a day our of a factory at a separate facility. But the shengjianbao can only be found only at the restaurant.
Mr Taster
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Dean Sin World
306 N Garfield Ave # 2, Monterey Park, CA-
re: Mr Taster
Ciao Bob
Sep 6, 2011 10:58 AM
Have you tried Beijing Pie House yet, Mr. Taster? By far the juiciest and tastiest buns I've had in SGV, or in China/Taiwan. Must be eaten there -- the squirt is long gone by the time you take 'em home.
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Beijing Pie House
846 E Garvey Ave, Monterey Park, CA 91755
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re: odub
K K
Sep 6, 2011 11:15 AM
Spoken like a true Shanghainese native odub!
Please ask your parents (or other elder members of the family) if they have ever eaten shen jian bao from 蘿春閣, it would be amazing to hear stories of how shen jian bao was back in those days and why purists demed those more authentic and traditional than many of today's renditions.
Xiao Yang is definitely famous, but old schoolers think that while it is good, it is not the original flavor they grew up with (and don't find it original/authentic/traditional) because
1) they think a shen jian bao meat filling should be one bite sized meatball, with a good bite factor, and natural meat juices. XY's filling is not compacted and is too loose, with a gush a soup (catering to more modern tastes). Da Shanghai Shen Jian Bao, a very famous SJB street vendor at Taipei's Shihlin Night Market, does their rou bao with virtually no soup inside, but does have tasty meat juices and a good sized meatball inside. The only thing that an old schooler Shanghainese would find DS's version abominable would be the addition of ginger slivers, possibly a Taiwanese interpretation. There's also the cheaper version with cabbage at Shida Night Market in Taipei, but that's more so for the university students and visitors :-).
2) As already mentioned above, a 1920s/30s era shen jian bao should not be treated as a tang bao (like a soupy XLB) unlike today... everyone is obsessed with soup. Xiao Yang gets away with it, because they have a loyal and international fanbase. Those who view XY as good but not authentic, think that XY fans have never been exposed to the more traditional (yet at the same time phased out) versions.
3) During the 1960s, SJB went through a revolution, where the tip of the bun (the folds) went from turning upwards to going inwards (into the bun), which has now become the standard. It was done folding downwards and inwards, they say, during harder economic times, to make the interior smaller (and thus use less filing and vendors saving $ while increasing the bottom line).
My source of information of the above agrees with your Kang Kang assessment exactly, inconsistent skins, but overall better than nothing for SoCal.
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re: K K
Yeah, I like XY but did find it too soupy...especially when that "soup" = "scalding hot oil". It was a literally dangerous food item...but tasty!
My main food guide around the city (native Shanghainese dude) always thought XY was overrated; his favorite SJB place was somewhere in the Jiang An Temple area (I don't remember the name of the spot though). If I recall, it was less soupy but no less tasty.
And glad to know someone will back me up on the fact that Kang Kang still does the dish better than most of these places. There's nothing worse than a bao that looks good but is too doughy and lacks sufficient flavor.
(By the way, I'm not remotely native to the city, nor my parents. They ended up working there from 2002-2010 and still keep their apartment. I've only been out three times but because Xiao Yang was so close, I'd hit them up on the regular).
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Jiang
12045 Garden Grove Blvd, Garden Grove, CA 92843
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re: Jim Leff
Peripatetic
Aug 25, 2011 01:27 AM
"Same photographer, same restaurant, god these fried pork dumplings ("crispy pork buns") look great"
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Everything (including geolocation data) points to the "crispy pork bun" in mrs.McD's recent photo being the xoi chien from Dip's Grill, which opened last year.The fried pork buns in mrs.MdD's 2007 photo seem to be the #41 (生煎包 - sheng jian bao) on Noodle King's menu:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/6gTRpcYrYQWpkXAqCj6w-g?select=PsMidKdh3tnz0hagYjlOTwHere's a more recent photo of them on Yelp:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/6gTRpc...The ones in mrs.McD's photo look better. It's possible it's just lighting or something else; however three years is an eternity in the Chinese culinary world in the SGV, so the kitchen might not be the same.
I agree with Porthos that some of the best sheng jian bao in the SGV can be found at Dean Sin World (#29 on DSW's menu). I have a freezer full of them, as well as DSW's excellent XLBs (they're both available frozen in 50-bao quantities). With the departure earlier this year of the two ladies from Tianjin who used to make them, DSW's baos seem to have slipped from transcendent to only excellent, but I have yet to find any better.
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re: JThur01
Peripatetic
Aug 25, 2011 01:14 PM
Unfortunately I don't know their names. When we were there last month we tried to order the Tianjin Earhole Cakes (#34 - 耳朵眼炸糕) but they weren't available. We actually thought there might have been a change of ownership (there are subtle differences in the dishes, and the (new?) manager has put up photos of her family), but my wife talked to the the owner who explained that the two ladies from Tianjin had gone back to China.
Everything's still excellent, just a little less so.
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re: JThur01
Peripatetic
Sep 6, 2011 12:18 PM
JThur01, thanks for the update -- that's good news that the Tianjin Earhole Cakes are available again!
Just trying to get a handle on who's who:
- Is Mrs Lu the manager (the one whose family photos are on the wall)?
- Was Mrs He one of the two Tianjin ladies who went back to China?
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re: Peripatetic
You're welcome.
Mrs. Lu is the owner (the one whose family photos are on the wall). No ownership/management change for some time.
Mrs. He is from Tianjin, and I haven't seen her in DSW since Spring. So, I believe she has returned to China.
I have to thank TonyC for originally bringing this to my attention with the definitive piece he wrote on DSW at sinosoul.com. As usual, he gives details and background sorely lacking from other writers.
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Peripatetic
Aug 23, 2011 09:57 AM
Jim Leff makes an appearance on the LA board!
Those buns look great. There's not a lot about this place on the board -- one hound has mentioned them a few times a few years ago:
- http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/317066#2077070
- http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/371213#2293431
- http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/3875...Has anyone been here recently?
Note: not to be confused with the relatively new Lucky Noodle King in San Gabriel or the late Beef Noodle King in Monterey Park.
›13 Replies-
re: Peripatetic
TonyC
Aug 23, 2011 02:45 PM
*kowtow to the big dog*
Noodle King's broth/menu/setup is nearly identical to Dragon Supreme (now defunct, or relocated, etc.). My last visit was about a 2 years ago, I find the fried cigar dumplings absolutely depressing, carrying none of the luscious pork jus, acting like an opened sluice. The pork chop rice had the "wrong" breading, and was unmemorable otherwise. NRM here was a disaster with watered down broth, zero spice -- a sure sign of catering to the devil ie, the proverbial stingy Chinese diner. About a year ago, I walked in, then walked out.
That said, after browsing the menu, I can't find this onigiri looking "crispy pork buns". Anyone else actually ordered this?
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re: TonyC
K K
Aug 23, 2011 03:27 PM
Wow, is this the same 政記牛肉麵大王 Beef Noodle King we are talking about? A TW expat friend from NorCal swears by this place and makes a monthly pilgrimage (re: driving 500 miles one way) to this place.
Looking at the first 2 pages of Chinese blogs, and don't see anything remotely related to the flickr pic
Eileen's review is 4 years old, but the closest thing to "fried pork bun" is Shanghai style Shen Jian Bao.
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/eileen216/6...
The flickr pic "bun" exterior looks a lot more like "crispy rice" Wo Ba 窩巴. The purple looking stuff inside looks more vegetarian (beets??) than meaty to me.
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Beef Noodle King
18457 Colima Rd Ste C, Rowland Heights, CA 91748-
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re: AAQjr
Peripatetic
Aug 24, 2011 03:05 AM
"t looks like a pan fried rice cake stuffed with pork and mushrooms to me."
--------So I think I've identified the suspect: the pan-fried sticky rice patties (xoi chien) at Dip's Grill: "Fried sticky rice patties stuffed with ground pork, shrimp, black fungus mushrooms, and onions":
http://www.dipsgrill.com/menu.aspx
The place mat, condiments and china appear to be similar (with some minor variation):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/weezermonkey/5124536835/in/photostream/
http://www.yelp.com/user_local_photos...-----
Dip's Grill
1412 E Valley Blvd, Alhambra, CA 91801
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re: Peripatetic
Jim Leff
Aug 24, 2011 08:09 AM
The photo was geo-tagged....to the exact location of Noodle King. And I googled other mentions of the fried pork buns (Shui jian bao) at that restaurant.
That said, an afternoon crawling (perhaps literally) between both places for greasy crunchy excess would undoubtedly be time well spent.
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re: Jim Leff
TonyC
Aug 24, 2011 09:06 AM
One (not I) can throw a baseball from Dip's to Noodle King. Google maps show "236 feet" between the 2. Chalk it up to a cell's lousy GPS lock?
That is some fine sleuthing (not sluicing) Peripatetic. For a second, I was afraid I'd have to revisit Noodle King.
(Of note, the above photo on right was taken by WeezerMonkey.com , a fine restaurant blog of LA. And thanks for reading.)
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re: TonyC
Peripatetic
Aug 24, 2011 09:43 AM
(Of note, the above photo on right was taken by WeezerMonkey.com , a fine restaurant blog of LA.)
--------Indeed, that photo is from this post on WeezerMonkey's blog:
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re: Jim Leff
Peripatetic
Aug 24, 2011 09:28 AM
I can't believe I didn't check for that. I looked for EXIF data in the JPEG for geolocation info, but not on the Flickr page. The coordinates (34.079, -118.1095) are within 30 feet of Dip's Grill. Noodle King is across the street in "Valley Square", towards the rear (at 34.08006 -118.11054 I think).
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re: Jim Leff
Mr Taster
Aug 28, 2011 05:02 PM
Tried Dip's Grill a few days ago based on this post. I thought it was interesting that these were essentially the Vietnamese/rice equivalent of what you find at Beijing Pie House on Garvey (though the Chinese version are more flavorful and juicier.)
Calling it a pork pie is a bit of a misnomer, as the primary flavor is that of mushrooms. (Go to BPH is you want to be whacked over the head with flavor and texture of meat). But overall it was quite delicious-- crispy, soft, salty, spicy in all the right proportions. The vinegared/pickled radish garnish was lovely accompaniment as was the chile/fish dipping sauce.
Incidentally, the photo that Jim linked to on Flickr shows differently shaped plates, and the pies were definitely a much deeper shade of brown that what we were served (it matched identially Peripatetic's photos). But the orange/white radish garnish and chile sauce looked more or less the same.
Mr Taster
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Dip's Grill
1412 E Valley Blvd, Alhambra, CA 91801Beijing Pie House
846 E Garvey Ave, Monterey Park, CA 91755-
re: Mr Taster
Mr Taster
Aug 28, 2011 05:16 PM
And a quick yelp search reveals that Noodle King is a Taiwanese restaurant, and this is most certainly not a Taiwanese dish. (Not that I'd be surprised if I found it at a Taichung night market stall... they'd probably love it there.) Plus our server at Dip's verified that this is served in Vietnam, though during our month there I never saw it. So the bottom line is... nuts to geo-tagging... it looks like Dip's Grill it is!
Mr Taster
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Dip's Grill
1412 E Valley Blvd, Alhambra, CA 91801
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re: TonyC
Jim Leff
Aug 23, 2011 05:52 PM
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"That said, after browsing the menu, I can't find this onigiri looking crispy pork buns"
------------Shui jian bao, baby. Shui jian bao.
BTW, I'm going to work the phrase "acting like an opened sluice" into every conversation from here on out.
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re: Jim Leff
Peripatetic
Aug 24, 2011 02:01 AM
"BTW, I'm going to work the phrase "acting like an opened sluice" into every conversation from here on out."
--------There's a _lot_ more where that came from: http://sinosoul.com/
One of the Essential 99 LA Food Blogs. :)
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