Can you identify these two Parisian restos?

[MCFAC]

Hi, I spoke with someone who frequently visits Paris, she recommended two places. Unfortunately, she couldn't spell the names. Maybe you can help? Both are two starred Michelin places, reportedly with "life changing" multiple course lunches and dinners. One she believed was in the Jardin (or parc) du Palais Royal, my best guess on spelling is "Le Pre Curtcone", the other is named something close to "La Grande Veufrune". Any ideas on correct spellings, so I can book a reservation? Your help is much appreciated!

[Parigi]

PBSF is right on both counts. Actually on 3 counts: the two names and the spelling of Pré Catelan.

[Maximilien]

I always get mixed up when specifying "Le Pré Catelan" ...

[Parigi]

Everybody does. Even John Talbott does. I remember probably because I bought the resgo's old silver. Great quality, low price, and the spelling "Pré Catelan" stares me in the face several times a day. :-)

[MCFAC]

Thanks, everyone! Would either of these be a comfortable choice for lunch with our four year old? Or is there another place for an exceptional lunch that is welcoming for children? If outside seating is available, that canis a big plus with kids.

[Maximilien]

With a kid, I would go to Le Grand Vefour; Le Palais and its garden is a nice place to be with kids.

[Parigi]

Le Grand Véfour is very quiet and does not have outdoors setting. I have never seen children there but one can always ask.

[Nancy S.]

I agree. I tend to think of this as a calm and sophisticated venue. Lunch there is a favorite activity of my parents, who are in their 80s. Still, I imagine it's worth asking.

[PBSF]

I would not recommend Le Grand Vefour with 4 year old child for two reasons. First is that a meal at any Michelin fine dining restaurants would last at least 2 hours (longer if it is leisurely) and I am not sure any small child has that long of an attention span. Second is because Le Grand Vefour is registered as a "historical monument" and the decor cannot be changed, the tables are small and close together by luxury restaurant standards.
As for Le Pre Catelan, it does have terrace seating during warmer months but it is still a matter of a two to three hour meal in a rather formal setting. Maybe someone who has experience would chime in.
There have been a couple of recent posts on the topic of dining with small children in Paris. I would do a search on this board.

[MCFAC]

Thanks, we can usually last 3 courses at home, I was planning on bringing a few toys/crayons, etc. But I really don't want to inconvience other diners in too formal a setting.

[Nancy S.]

Both restaurants have photographs of their spaces on their websites, which may give you a sense of the formality.

[PBSF]

Even though both restaurant offer a three course lunch, Paris fine dining restaurants tend to pile on a lot of freebies. In the case of Le Grand Vefour, first the amuse, there will usually be a small extra vegetable course; a cheese course comes with the lunch; after the dessert, they bring out their gateau savoyard plus the petit fours, then chocolates. With the formal service of setting silverware, plates, after each course, etc. it is usually a three hour affair.

[MCFAC]

Yes, I think these two recs will be too much. (Although I read that in the very old days, they would bring cows into the dining room of Le grand Vefour for guests to milk, and kids aren't worse than cows, are they?) We are not trying to do full dinner, I understand that lunch will involve fewer courses.

If you can recommend maybe a one star or a fantastic lesser known place that is less formal, it would be much appreciated. I've been reading some other threads about eating with children, the emphasis seems to be a bit more on cafes and street eating. We'll do plenty of that as well, just trying to squeeze in one really fabulous lunch.

[mangeur]

Or, as has been suggested before on this forum, you could have your hotel arrange for a babysitter for the several (call it 4) hours you would be away. From the stories that have come back to us, it is not infrequent for the child so attended to be so taken with and amused by the French sitter that they actually wanted to stay longer with them. Think a child oriented person who plays games, tells stories, etc. Enjoy!

[MCFAC]

We're going to brave it without a sitter. On www.parisbymouth.com there's a thread, Drouant has a children's menu, and Astier reportedly gives children cloth bibs, which become a take home gift. The thread also says Sunday is a big family day for restos, and that at most places, they are happy to prepare "off the menu" items for children. So, these two places are on my list, unless CHers feel they're not a good value. Any comments on Drouant or Astier?

[Parigi]

Astier is a good choice. Relaxing, very Paris bistro-y, nothing too weirdly challenging. The service is also excellent. Go for it.

[PBSF]

With outdoor seating, I would still consider taking a long look at Le Pre Catelan and Le Grande Cascade for lunch. They are places that family still celebrate at, especially weekend lunches. Hope some locals with experience can chime in.
If you are looking into more modest places, there have been a number of recent threads on eating with small children. The link below is one of them:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/797302
And for Astier, unless they've refurbished the upstair room recently, don't get put up there, cramped and uncomfortable.

[Delucacheesemonger]

IMVHO, the best thing about Astier is the afforementioned napkin. Mine is still in a place of prominence.

[mangeur]

Shoot! They "gave " you a napkin? It would have been the highlight of our meals there. I remember them as being quintessentially French bistro...

[Delucacheesemonger]

Actually a friend l took to dinner so noted my delight in their napkins, she appropriated one without my knowledge and gave it to me on my next birthday. Yes it was quintessentially French, but the service was dreadful, the cheese tray was way past tired and they were out of 2 of their 4 plats early in the evening.

[MCFAC]

Reminds me of our heist of guinness glasses for a friend's parents, then in their 80's. They weren't leaving the pub without them!

So, no agreement on Astier? Parigi says it's a go, from these comments, I'm thinking "no go." Although after reading about parisian restos for the last 4 straight days, I've come to believe that horrible service is just what to expect...and a lot of well loved places have become "old and tired".

[Parigi]

We had such good service there that we tipped extra. But I agree it is not one of Paris's top restaurants. It is just a user-friendly place for diners with very young children.
I also disagree that bad service is a norm here. That is not true.

[Delucacheesemonger]

Generally prefer the service in Parisian restaurants to the States, you have just mentioned some l am not thrilled with. Grand Vefour has a very good cheese tray.
Auberge bressane, Chez Denise, Le Regalade and many others are super, not too expensive and have great and warm service.

[Parigi]

Legend has it that you charmed the napkins, mustard jars, boxer shorts off the waitstaff.

[mangeur]

We, responders, need to define "bad service". I hated Astier because I found the service intrusive. It was too much rather than too little. I felt that our English speaking waiter edited and translated our orders and preferences to the chef, who might have served us better had he just complied with a simple order off the carte. e.g., fish and meat were too well done and not cooked as we ordered.

[mangeur]

So glad to read more of your experience. I became so annoyed with the less than stellar food and condescending service on our last visit, that we left before dessert and coffee. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.

On our first visit, many years ago, the waiter refused to take my order of Pied de Cochon, telling me "Pas pour vous, madam" and returned the carte to me so that I would make another selection. I held fast and got my order. I didn't love it, but at least I did get to experience it. My option, not his.

[MCFAC]

Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses. As the hotel offers breakfast and dinner, we're planning for midmorning snacks, lunches, and just a couple dinners. After looking for days at amazing descriptions and photos, here's my strategy. 1. I'm ruling out anything over 35 euros for lunch and 50 euros for dinner, too formal an experience just isn't right for this trip. 2. I'm using www.parisbymouth.com's postal code list system to narrow my choices, (so I can actually make some) and find places near the attractions/landmarks we wish to visit. (of course validating by checking out CH posts.) 3. Also using http://www.chocoparis.com/ for some chocolate walks, going into Montmarte to check out Arnaud Larher. Can you recommend a place for a late lunch in that area? (Planning to fit the Sacre Cour in between that shop and a meal.) 4. Also hoping to check out the open air markets for lunch a couple days. We'll be spending at least two days in the Louve-Musee de Orsay-Musee de la Orangerie - Musee de Herbe area, my concern is that this may be laden with tourist traps and very expensive. I'm planning on making a few reservations in advance, are there options in that area for grabbing a good unplanned bite?

[Nancy S.]

As has been said, best to make reservations for every meal you anticipate eating in a restaurant; you can always cancel. You risk disappointment if you wait; the better places will be "complet".

[mangeur]

"the Louve-Musee de Orsay-Musee de la Orangerie - Musee de Herbe area,"

http://www.chow.com/search?query=louv...

The small cafe on rue du Bac just south of the Quai will provide a simple plat du jour or salad or omelette at a reasonable price and within a reasonable timeframe. There is an Eric Kayser bakery on the corner of Bac and Verneuil that has several small tables and chairs where you can enjoy a sandwich and maybe a cup of soup, fruit salad, etc.

[PBSF]

The correct spelling would be Le Pre Catelan. It now has a third star.
The latter on the Jardin du Palais Royal would be Le Grand Vefour.

[Maximilien]

one : Le Pré Catalan
second : La Grande Cascade (?)

M.