Poll: Would you eat a dog

[kpaxonite]

Im not talking about your housepet...dogs raised on a farm or facility specifically for the purpose of being slaughtered to be eaten.

I never have...but if I was in Korea or somewhere it was on the menu I would definitely try it.

[jrvedivici]

Nope, not in your scenario. If I were on a deserted island with just me and a dog, sorry pooch, but that's about it.

[ZenDada]

If I were in a foreign land in the home of a gracious hostess, I would eat a lot of unusual things in order to be a good guest.

[sunshine842]

not just recommended, but +a kajillion.

[PaulF]

I would eat Snoopy and Pluto if I could figure out a way to stop getting updates about this thread.

[emu48]

Sure. I eat Thumper. I eat Bambi. I'd eat Rover too, if it was prepared by someone who knew how to do it well. Millions of people eat dogs all the time. How wrong can they be?

[John E.]

I would eat emu before I would eat dog.

[sunshine842]

Eaten emu. I'd take emu over a lot of other choices.

[John E.]

Is emu like eating lean beef? That's what I have heard. I also noted on the other thread that you don't care for horse. I am interested in what horse meat is like, coming from someone who isn't trying to convince me it is good. What is it like? I am guessing it too is quite lean, but is it like eating game such as venison, elk, or moose (all of which I like) or is it something else?

[PotatoHouse]

Tastes like chicken.

(The thread is so long somebody had to say it)

[sunshine842]

yes, emu is like eating lean beef -- but it has a really lovely, savory flavor (no, not like chicken)

Horse I found to be unpleasantly sweet, with an odd flavor that I'm at a loss to explain - unlike any domesticated or game animal I've ever eaten. (I was served it at a group dinner, so ate it without knowing what it was -- which I was happy about, because I rejected it because I didn't like the flavor, with no preconceived notions.) I ate it to be polite, but I don't think I'd every eat it strictly by choice.

[linguafood]

Emu or ostrich?

[sunshine842]

I've had both -- but to be fair, they were far enough apart timewise, I couldn't honestly make a meaningful comparison.

I do remember liking them both immensely - they're similar, but sorry, that's about as erudite as I can get...

[Cheez62]

Absolutely not.

[rcbaughn]

No, with the amount of personality each dog has there is just no way. Most farm animals are emotionless towards humans and don't show affection but dogs do. Same for cats too I suppose, but I hate cats and could see myself eating one of them LONG before I ever would a pup.

[pikawicca]

Your assessment of "most farm animals" is dead wrong.

[JMF]

You've obviously never worked or lived on a farm.

[PotatoHouse]

"OHH my balogna has a first name
it's O-S-C-A-R
my balogna has a second name
it's R-O-V-E-R....."

[hoosiercheetah]

Dogs are yummy.

Cat is yummy too, but kind of scrawny. You have to whack three or four to make it worth it, like squirrels.

[John E.]

This dog of a thread just will not die ; )

[porker]

I was thinking the same thing...maybe someone should put it out of its misery...

[Dansky]

I eat them all the time. A little sauerkraut, some mustard on top... mmmmm!

[mahalan]

No sooner than I'd eat a child.

[ospreycove]

A post WWII study of nutrition/starvation concluded that if cultural and traditional considerations were not in the way, many more people would not have starved and died. Bottom line is "Protein is Protein", whether it comes from a prime cut of Beef, maggots, rats, or the family pooch. Just an extension of the contemporary adage.....Don't YUCK my YUM?

[porker]

Very true, just ask a survivor from the 1972 Andes flight disaster.

[Chemicalkinetics]

People under extreme stress resort to different means of survival. People are known to be cannibalistic when faced with very tough choices. Yet, there is a difference between doing so during starvation and doing so in your living room watching TV and drinking wine. There is a differene between stealing a loaf of bread when a person has not eaten for days and when a person just finished a filet mignon and walked out of a steakhouse.

The original poster was not asking about a starvation situation. He was asking about a vacation in a restaurant looking at a menu and that dog meat is on that menu. Your example does not apply.

[porker]

Hiya Chem,
Your points are correct and have been discussed up-thread, mostly along the lines of "....maybe, but only if I was starving..."
But I think osprey has a valid point; we don't eat certain things, but not because it doesn't sustain us, but rather because of cultural and traditional considerations. This is the core of why the question is touchy, why some people are horrified and others not.

[ospreycove]

Porker, yes that was my point; when I am in Italy we usually have a group dinner in a trattoria that specializes in Cavallo, Horse Meat, it is quite a treat for the locals in the group as well as the visiting people. Cultural/perception bias prevents many people in the U.S. from ever thinking about munching on a piece of well braised pony. It is difficult to get rabbit to where it is an accepted form of low cholesterol, tasty, and sustainablly/naturally raised, meat. Let alone Trigger!!!

[porker]

We had a bartender a few years ago who was in training for some kind of bodybuilding competition (I dunno something like FIT competition or Sports body or something).
Anyway, she had very small campartmentalized meals that she'd eat every 3 or 4 hours. Her red meat was horse for its low fat qualities. I had BBQed whole racks of pork ribs and set them out buffet style. The poor girl was getting weak in the knees looking at those ribs, so my brother quipped "They're horse ribs, go ahead have a couple!" We laughed our assses off on that one.

[sunshine842]

I was kind of glad that my first taste of horsemeat was at a function where I didn't know what it was.

I didn't care for the flavor, but ate it to be polite -- so wasn't all that upset when I found out later that it was horsemeat.

Now I can very honestly say that I don't eat it because I don't like it.

[linguafood]

A dog? As in, a whole dog? Nah, too much food.

Maybe a chihuahua or one of those little rats I mean teacup pinchers.

Yip yip.

[pdxgastro]

In England I found a pin that said "I love babies but I can never eat a whole one".

[linguafood]

LOVE it.

[beevod]

Arf!

[Puffin3]

If any one of us were living or rather attempting to live in NK eating 'dog' would seem like eating a ten pound Maine lobster. Everything is relative isn't it. People have eaten many many things a lot more 'Peta unfriendly' than a dog when circumstances demanded it.

[PaulF]

Since we're not talking about what we would eat if we survived an airplane crash in some remote wilderness -- then no, I wouldn't order dog.

I do regret not ordering the horse meat sashimi when I was in Kyoto -- but at the time i couldn't wrap my mind around it. Had it been cooked I would have ordered it, but raw horse ... I regret now not trying some, but at the time it didn't appeal to me.

[SeoulQueen]

Just dined at Animal in Los Angeles. One of the dishes was braised rabbit legs with hedgehog! Even though I immediately had an image of Mrs. Tiggy Winkle, although oddly enough no image of Peter Rabbit, I was game enough to order the dish (sorry for the pun).

Disappointingly..or maybe not, the waiter said it was hedgehog mushrooms, not hedgehog the animal. I still ordered the dish and it was fantastic - best dish of the entire meal. Yay for Peter Rabbit! :)

[poloprincess]

What about Sonic? :) I used to love that video game.

[SeoulQueen]

Guess my age is showing (my husband says i am too analog) LOL! But I did think of Sonic the next night so guess I'm not that old! :)

[porker]

"But I did think of Sonic the next night so guess I'm not that old"

or forgetful in your old age - hehe

"too analog", thats hilarious!

[viperlush]

No. Don't see myself in Korea or elsewhere it is on the menu. And I dont' like the raising of carnivores for food (dog, lion, etc.).

[porker]

As mentioned up-thread, dog is not a carnivore.

[dhmill]

You need to tell that to my dog. She chased down a rabbit, killed it and ate it. Which surprised me because I have found with other domestic dogs that I have had that they will not eat raw meat. Sure enough they want their meat to be cooked. But Shadow did eat a freshly killed rabbit that she had chased down.

[sunshine842]

the point would be that dogs are omnivores -- they''ll eat whatever they need to eat to survive.

[dhmill]

Not necessarily so. I've seen my dogs eat grass. Usually when they are not feeling well. They eat the grass to make themselves vomit. A pile of partially digested grass looks very nasty. On the other hand dogs, at least my dogs, will eat anything that I will eat. Shadow just loves watermelon, grapes, blackberries, cantalope, etc. But, I don't eat grass.

[porker]

".......my dogs, will eat anything.........”
=
omnivore

"Not necessarily so”
=
?

[dhmill]

Porker, I did say that my dogs will eat anything that I will eat. Omnivores? Well, on their own they will ignore a whole watermelon. They don't eat the grapes, blackberries or cantalope that is growing in my backyard.But if I am eating any of those things and feed it to them they will eat it. Not a carnivore? I doubt if that wild rabbit that Shadow caught and ate will believe that.

[sunshine842]

Omnivore just means that a given creature will eat meat OR plants OR whatever happens to be available.

The fact that they turn up their nose at watermelon doesn't change the meaning of the word, nor the nature of the beast.

Omnivores eat meat. Omnivores eat plants. Shadow is an omnivore. The rabbit doesn't care any more.

[porker]

What sunshine said...

Omnivore does not mean vegan or vegetarian. If Shadow ONLY ate meat, she'd be a carnivore. If she only ate plant based food she'd be a herbivore. The fact that she happily eats rabbit (meat) AND "watermelon, grapes, blackberries, cantalope, etc" (plant based food) makes her an omnivore (meat AND plant).

The rabbit might have thought Shadow is a carnivore, but would have been mistaken.

[Puffin3]

What do you dog owners feed your dogs? I'm guessing a majority of dogs in the 'West' are fed some sort of dried dog food. Check out what's in all that dried 'Kibble'. etc. Vegetable products used as 'fillers' which makes that dog an omnivore.

[porker]

I think the majority of dog owners don't know (or necessarily care) whats in their dog food. Some, however, think its important to feed their dog a herbivore diet - vegan dogfood 8-(

http://www.vegetariandogs.com/

Along the same lines of this thread, I wonder if this would make them taste better?

[montrealeater]

My dogs get fed home-prepared food ONLY. This can include potatoes, lentils and/or rice. I also throw in different veggies - butternut squash, some greesn etc. Most of it is canned salmon, bones and fish oil, tho. Kibble sux. But yeah, my dogs are omnivores. Their breakfast this morning was smoked fish pie minus the pastry from Tourtierre Australienne (leftovers I forgot on the counter...).

[Chemicalkinetics]

That is the issue I have mentioned above. If domestic pet food is used as a measurement, then cats are also omnivore as there are plenty of corn, rice, wheat...etc in cat foods.

[will47]

Cats are so-called obligate carnivores. Their diet can contain some non-meat foods (and, in fact, there are vegetarian cat diets which are nutritionally complete), but their digestive systems aren't designed to process plants efficiently. The fact that synthetic taurine and arachidonic acid are available makes the addition of plant foods less of a problem, and in fact, virtually all cat food has added taurine, even if it is already meat heavy.

According to this definition, even obligate carnivores may consume some amount of plant material, but they rely on animal protein for survival.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivor...

Dogs are definitely omnivores. As far as the vegetable products used as fillers... well, let's just say that that's not the worst of what's in a lot of commercial pet food.

[Chemicalkinetics]

will,

Why are dogs definitely omnivores? I don't think that is a settled debate among many people. Dogs can digest vegetation better than cats, but dogs are carnivore in nature. Their skull, their jaw, their teeth, their instinct are all of carnivore. Biologically speaking, dogs are really wolves with very small difference. I believe meat makes up more than 95% of wolves' diet. If you let a dog goes in wild, and if it survives, it is not going to graze grass, or eat wheat, it will just hunt for meat.

[will47]

It sounds like there's some debate after all; I've always heard that they are omnivores. Here's one take on it (from a relatively mainstream source, albeit one that may have a slight vested interest)
http://www.hillspet.com/dog-care/carn...

The point that's most significant to me is that, even if they prefer meat, dogs can live a happy, healthy life without eating animal protein, and without having added taurine, arachidonic acid, etc. You can have a discussion about whether or not that's the most healthful or natural diet for them, but they don't require meat to survive, and that's what makes them different from, say, cats.

I am not sure how much luck most domestic dogs would have hunting in the wild.

[Chemicalkinetics]

will47,

I am not disagree with you completely. I think I just some inconsistent definition from other posters.

I think we just have to be consistent about our criteria.

If we are talking about what domestic animals get to eat, then we would say both dogs and cats are omnirores since they are both fed with corns and rice....etc.

If we are talking about their biological ability to survive as your last illustration, then dogs are omnivores, but cats are carivores. That is ok, but then that also means wolves are omnivores as well because wolves can also potentially eat the heavily vegatation meals and survive. Yet, I think a lot of people would call wolves carinores based on their diets.

If we are talking about the animals basic instinct, then dogs have the instinct to consume meat as opposed to eating rice and wheat.

I agree with you. I think almost all domestic dogs would not survive very well in the wild due to their too "friendly" behavior.

[westsidegal]

chemicalkinetics:
the reason this debate is very much settled is because DNA analysis of dogs has shown that they are capable of digesting and utilizing carbohydrates to a much greater degree than wolves or other carnivores.
whether or not their teeth have changed as much as their DNA has changed since they first descended from wolves is now a completely irrelevant issue.
also, this statement of yours:
<< that also means wolves are omnivores as well>> is nonsensical, especially when one takes the current scientific knowledge of dog DNA verses wolf DNA into consideration.

the detailed scientific study was published in the journal Nature this past January.
the study leader was Erik Axelsson, an evolutionary geneticist at Uppsala University in Sweden.

[westsidegal]

to support sunshine842 on this:

http://www.nature.com/news/dog-s-dinn...

[porker]

Shadow, you are not a carnivore.
{;-/)

[shanagain]

After reading the entire thread (and being particularly horrified over the comments of dogs being beaten to flood their system with adrenaline, not to mention the live baby mice comment) I'm left with one compelling reason not to try dog, ever.

Not one person has said "Yes, I've had it and it was AMAZING."

It seems to me that I'd have a helluva lot of cultural privilege and mores to hurdle to try dog (or cat) in the first place, with very small reward other than being able to state I'd done so. Horse is a stickier wicket for me - we've raised horses, and I simply can't make the connection from trusted companion to meat. Utterly illogical, but there's nothing to be done for it - it is a product of the privilege and social standards in the community in which I was raised.

[poloprincess]

One of my closest friends is Korean and he said that yes, it actually doesn't taste bad at all (it's nothing extraordinary), but the cultural connotations for most of us is just too much. While many religions have aversions to certain animals (pig, cow), it isn't so much the taste at all. I am from Quebec and horse meat is not popular but there is no cultural connotations to it so it is simply sold in grocery stores like all other meats.

[pikawicca]

I know a lot of Koreans from my ESL classes, and they all claim never to have eaten dog and have no desire to do so. Apparently this is a cultural artifact being kept alive by a segment of the older generation, much the same as the eating of whale meat in Japan.

[poloprincess]

I teach ESL and have generally heard the same thing - that a lot of the hysteria surrounding dogs being eaten (ie. like PETA) is overblown to say the least. I doubt it would be commonly sold in Seoul or Busan for sure.

I wasn't with him so perhaps he said it for shock value, lol.

[Chemicalkinetics]

To be really honest, even more so for Chinese. Although it is legal to eat dogs in Chinese, most Chinese have never eaten dogs and some refused to do it. It is not that popular. To some extend, it is like alligator meat in the US. Sure you can eat it, but most people have never tried it. I haven't.

[sunshine842]

at the risk of sounding cliched, alligator meat is a firm-textured white meat with a rather mild flavor.

Yep, tastes like chicken.

(so does rattlesnake)

Other than the fun of telling people you've eaten it, it's not all that worth the fuss. (it's not bad...and would be friggin' awesome if it was your only choice...just not really worth a special trip, IMO)

[porker]

Is it legal to eat dog in English? {;-/)
(see montrealeater, I'm an equal oppurtunist)

[joonjoon]

I grew up in Korea...most people haven't tried dog, and a few I know have eaten a few times on occasion. I don't know a single person who even semi-regularly consumes dog...it's pretty rare.

[poloprincess]

joonjoon, when do people actually eat it? Is it a rare countryside thing, older generation thing, etc?

Here, horse meat is generally only consumed by people who commonly do so in their family (more of a subculture) rather than any kind of holiday or wahtever

[joonjoon]

It seems like it's an older generation countryside thing. I'm sure they exist, but I haven't seen any dog restaurants in the city. The gist I get from my parents is that it's just something different to do once in a while when they're out in the country, and men feel like being adventurous. Like someone else mentioned, I've never heard anyone rave about it...the most frequent comment is something along the lines of "It's alright" or "Not bad".

Where is "here"? I've yet to try horse meat.

[sunshine842]

Not poloprincess, but horsemeat is readily available in supermarkets across most of Western Europe. (Not too common in restaurants, though)

[linguafood]

I've never seen it in any ("West" - including Berlin) German supermarkets, but my hometown had a horse butcher.

[porker]

I think poloprincess is referring to Quebec in general and perhaps Montreal specifically, about 8 hours from th Jersey shore.

[poloprincess]

Yes sorry, Quebec specifically (I'm about 45 minutes from downtown Montreal)

[shanagain]

Warning: I have a fever and would probably have a hard time finding the words for this thought even had I not. gl to you if you wade into the deep with me.

If culturally it is no longer a popular choice for a readily available, cheap and easy to raise protein source (in short, it's no pig, but it prevents starvation), does it strike anyone else that stating you'd seek it out just to say you'd done so is a bit.. I don't know, "tacky" almost - like you're "slumming it" to go back to your Privilege and shock the next dinner guests with your tale of poverty tourism and your ever-so "adventurous" nature. Frankly, it seems almost disrespectful of a culture that seems largely ready to leave it behind.

I should explain that I have an issue similar types of thinking to start with - like the blogs where a person endeavors to eat well on food stamp rations or something for a month. To the blogger, it's guaranteed page hits and attention - sometimes nobly stated as "calling attention to the problem of _____ ". But it can also look unsufferably smug. (Particularly when they drive twenty miles to an unfamiliar store and score scads of endive or canned escargot on clearance.)

[porker]

"Not one person has said "Yes, I've had it and it was AMAZING." "

The masses are generally not on Chowhound. Besides, most things we eat are not AMAZING.

[shanagain]

A well-respected community, nonetheless, filled with those who have lived/worked/visited many lands. In fact, you'd assume that those who have traveled and searched out dog have the means to find the best of the best in the area in which they're traveling. Of course I'm not making a blanket statement that it isn't amazing, just that I've never heard it referenced as such.

But really the main point is that to get past that initial "product of my raising" reaction of "hell no" I'd probably have to hear that it is worth it to push past the barrier for reasons other than just proving how open-minded and adventurous an epicure one may be. Think about oysters - not many people stare down a platter of oysters on the half shell for the first time and think "wow, that looks amazing.. I have to have that!" but - anyone who loves them will tell you that they ARE amazing, and worth getting past the appearance. (Which, if you love them, is a thing of beauty... in the eye of the beholder.) That's why I contrasted it with horse, a meat many say is wonderful. But the consensus seems to point to dog or cat as a more utilitarian source of protein than an amazing dining experience.

[dhmill]

A plateful of raw oysters looks amazing all right! They look AMAZINGLY like a plateful of SNOT!

[linguafood]

Umm. Thanks for sharing. To many of us, they look fantastically tasty. Which they are.

[racer x]

According to director Ridley Scott, they used raw oysters to simulate the alien creature's innards for the necropsy scene.

[linguafood]

Mmmmmmalien innards.

[porker]

We had a lively conversation over the holidays while feasting on oysters. It centered around genitalia...

[Yaxin]

"and I simply can't make the connection from trusted companion to meat. Utterly illogical, but there's nothing to be done for it - it is a product of the privilege and social standards in the community in which I was raised."

Agree 100%.
Though having lived in China for 2 years, I probably ate dog on more than one occasion without knowing it. Sad, but most likely true, especially up north in the winter months. I always asked what type of meat I was eating if I couldn't identify it--doesn't mean they told me the truth. No, I will never intentionally try it.

[racer x]

Thanks, shanagin. Your posts have helped my own feelings on this topic crystallize.

When I first saw this thread months ago, I didn't feel strongly about it one way or the other.

I felt that I might taste dogmeat out of curiosity, and I would eat dogmeat if I were starving; but I would not have wanted to eat a specific dog, nor would I have wanted to support the routine breeding of dogs for human consumption.

But you're absolutely right. I have not heard anyone say dogmeat has an distinctly unique and amazing taste.

So why, with so many other food options, would I want to increase the suffering of these creatures that are in so many ways, to my mind, like us humans?

[Wordie]

My take: dogs and humans have a special relationship. They offer us work, love and protection in exchange for food and care. Some evolutionary biologists believe that dogs became the creatures that they are precisely because of their relationship with humans: the dog-ancestors that were friendly to humans came close to their fires and were fed and so those human-friendly genes were favored by natural selection. So it's not accidental that humans and dogs can bond so easily: we have evolved together as mutual benefactors. Eating them is a violation of our mutual social contract. Why would we want to eat our only ally among the animal kingdom? One more thing: in some cultures, dogs are killed with deliberate cruelty in order to inflict pain, which is believed to make the meat into a more powerful aphrodisiac. See http://animalcrueltyworldwide.com/Ani.... (Long time Chowhound lurker here who signed up to participate in this poll!)

[will47]

I think that's a very culturally biased assessment, though. I don't think it's true that dogs and humans have this same special relationship across cultures, nor would I say that they are "our only ally among the animal kingdom". If what you were saying were universally true, you wouldn't see dogs being consumed in Asia and elsewhere. And, conversely, I'm sure we eat plenty of animals with which people in other countries have a special or mutually beneficial relationship.

It's hard to speak from a position of moral high ground about animal cruelty given the treatment of animals in industrial "farms" in the US and elsewhere. There's a lot of deliberate (and, in fact, institutionalized) cruelty in these industries, even if the reason for the cruelty is different, and in most cases, it's completely legal, because these industries are specifically exempt from animal cruelty laws.

While it's nice to think of cruelty as what those *other* people do, I would love to see some of that energy being spent advocating for better treatment for livestock at home.

[Heatherb]

Um, actually there's quite a bit of evidence that dogs are the only animals that have actually evolved in tandem with us. We are complementary species, I guess you could say. There is also evidence that the domestication of dogs led to one of our great leaps in evolution. Read the "Wolf in the Parlor."

I fail to see how Wordie's assessment was culturally biased. He was describing a scientific theory and offering an opinion on it.

[poloprincess]

No, I wouldn't feel good about it. Same goes for rabbit (I had rabbit for the first time at Christmas and kept thinking of Thumper). I don't actually see an issue with others doing it though (as much as I love dogs as pets), I know it's an irrational feeling to have the aversion.

[Worldwide Diner]

There were all kinds of weird snacks at an airport in China, including vacuum packed dog meat. I bought one and brought it home. It didn't taste all that great - I also shared some with my dogs. I think freshly cooked dog meat would taste better.

[cheezwhiz]

Not even if I was starving. Not dog, not horse, not birds smaller then chickens, not wildlife and usually not pork. No bugs, no snails or amphibious creatures. Bleh to worms, cats and anythig else that makes my stomach curl in horror. I am a rather picky, plain-jane kind of eater.

[sunshine842]

You wouldn't eat a quail, a Cornish game hen, or a guinea fowl? Your loss.

[cheezwhiz]

Nope, I wouldn't. Like I said, I've got plain tastes. That said, I've served rabbit and quail and the like, I just prefer not to eat anything that I have to silence my gag factor with.

[westsidegal]

i used to eat quail and cornish game hen.
dull dishes that need a lot of manipulation in the kitchen to be tasty.
(i know that others on this board can eat them with salt alone. tasted yuck to me)

[sunshine842]

they have to be good ones, though -- small-producer, or wild (for quail).

mass-produced, industrial quail or Cornish hens have no ore flavor than mass-produced industrial chicken.

[porker]

What about a really small chicken?

[cheezwhiz]

LOL, a really really small chicken? Then I'd probably wonder what kind of disease it had, or if it was a chick. So likely not. But smaller then average chickens? Sure.

[montrealeater]

Porkerrrrr...weren't you doing the same thing with me, above, awhile ago? This isn't mathematics. There is no 'correct' answer to 'will you eat X' - it comes down to a judgement call for every individual (and those judgements are going to be based on personal ethics, beliefs, values, cultural mores etc. etc.) - if Cheezwhiz says "I won't eat a bird smaller than a chicken" then, for Cheezwhiz, it makes sense for her not to...eat birds smaller than chickens. I said above that I won't eat anything I consider a friend, it therefore makes sense that I won't eat dog. Lot's of other reasons from various people in this thread, too. You may feel it's silly not to eat a bird based on its size, but that's you. This is one of those questions where the answers are necessarily going to be relative - yours included.

(this part not directed at Porker!) I refuse to go along with this whole macho "if you refuse to eat X you're a hypocritical wuss" stuff that I see sometimes on these boards and also irl. I refuse to eat dog, and I refuse to let anyone patronize me about it, I have reasons, and they're not invalidated because someone else doesn't share them.

[porker]

Yeah, I'm just funnin. Its tough without the keyboard lighthearted font. I thought "really small chicken" was funny, but madam cheezwhiz went a step further with "really really small chicken". Now thats hilarious.

[cheezwhiz]

Yep, we totally need a puffy cloud-type font, lol.

[dhmill]

Cornish Gamehens are nothing but young small chickens. Quail are tasty but there is pitifully little meat on them which is why usually at least two are served to one person.

[Querencia]

I have read through this entire thread. Interesting commentary on what meat is acceptable and what's not. I've often thought that garden slugs might make a good boneless protein snack if they weren't so disgusting, and I once read a book on cannibals of the South Pacific who called human flesh "long pig" since it tastes (they said) like pork. And what is more succulent than suckling pig? This is all starting to sound like "Lord of the Flies". How terrible we must be, right under our civilized surface.........

[dhmill]

I also have wondered about garden slugs. After all the French eat snails and garden slugs look like snails without the shells. The French cleanse the snails by feeding them cornmeal for a few days. Why not garden slugs also? But not for me! I draw the line at frog legs!

I once worked on a dairy farm for a summer. They had a large farm pond with lots of frogs. Ah ha, frog legs. Alas, they were not Bull Frogs so the legs were rather small. The skin is peeled off the same as with catfish. I worked for Louis and his mother. She did the cooking and looked at me like I was nuts! No, she did not try them. Working on a dairy farm during the late 50's we of course had lots of our own butter. Frog Legs sauted in butter. Ummm, tasty!!

[montrealeater]

Apparently you CAN eat garden slugs, as long as they are purged properlly beforehand - which I think just involves starving them for a bit? Barring the zombie apocalypse, I don't plan to try them out.

[tcamp]

Feed them cornmeal to clean them out. Same as you'd do for snails.

[pikawicca]

Do NOT eat garden slugs! A network news show reported a couple of weeks ago about a guy in the U.S. who ate a couple on a dare. He ingested a nasty parasite that literally ate his brain.

[sunshine842]

The French do not eat garden slugs...and if a country that eats snails, oysters, various internal organs, frogs' legs, etc., etc., etc., won't eat them, it ought to tell you something....

[dhmill]

Not to worry. I have/had no plans to eat one of those nasty slimy things. No snails either!!

While I'm at it, I don't plan to eat any lizards, spiders, snakes, either. I did eat some Rattlesnake once. It wasn't worth the effort. Just give me a nice thick medium rare Porterhouse and I'll be happy.

[linguafood]

Mmmmmmbrains.

[porker]

I don't think its the slugs so much, but eating them raw is the problem. So if you eat slug(s) on a dare, just cook 'em properly...

[montrealeater]

Here are a couple of recipes for slugs - I tried to find the video of this, because I know it's on Youtube as I've watched it before, but couldn't track it down. Probably for the best as it was gross enough to make me gag:
http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes/chefs/hugh-fearnley-whittingstall/tomato-sauce-for-slugs-recipe
http://www.channel4.com/4food/recipes...

Hugh F-W's comment after preparing these dishes? "I can heartily recommend those dishes, with just one small adjustment – leave out the slugs." And if this guy thinks it's gross, it must be, becauce he pretty much eats anything and everything and tends to enjoy it.

Urgh.

[racer x]

I think Porker may be right. It's not slugs per se that are the issue, it's raw or undercooked slugs or snails.

People can get a very rare form of meningitis from eating raw slugs or snails, although very few cases have been reported in the continental US, probably because the parasite has not yet become widespread in the US outside Hawaii.

However, the parasite that's been implicated has also been found on unwashed lettuce and in freshwater shrimp, crabs, and frogs.
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/angiostr...

[dhmill]

I'm not going to be eating any snails or slugs so I don't have to worry about it.

HYowever, I once had a patient, a young man about 18-19 years old that had gone bonkers. Over the edge you know. It was thought at first that he had ingested something that was making him hallucinate about his body being taken over by worms. An x-ray showed that he did indeed have a tape worm in his intestines. The young man was given a medication that caused the tape worm to leave it's host. Didn't take long either. It turned out to be a beef tape worm of about 20 feet long.

Once the young man saw that the worm had indeed left his body the young man quickly returned to normal. Further investigation revealed that the young man had recently traveled out of the U.S. with his father that was in the military. They had traveled to a country in Central America although I do not remember which country.

Meat should not be consumed raw or extremly rare. Meat does not have to be cooked well done but it should be throughly cooked. Especially in a foreign country.

[linguafood]

Ya, cause meat in the US is *so* much safer than in a(ny?) "foreign country".

You're kidding, right? Never had tartare in France? Carpaccio in Italy?

Your loss.

[westsidegal]

yeah, the practice led to the rise of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease.

[David11238]

I'm not sure I'd eat any four legged, mammal whom is a carnivore. I won't stop anyone else from eating them, but I find the thought distasteful. The same thing with rodents (maybe with the exception of beaver tail) and primate, which in the latter, I consider it almost cannibalism.

[dhmill]

Chimpanzes will hunt and eat other Chimps who wander into the wrong territory. Several males will band together and work co-operativly to get the interloper. Then the leader will divide the meat

amongst the co-hunters. Cannibalism? It could be viewed that way.

I remember going to the zoo in Syracuse,N.Y. They has foxes,lions,wildcats and wolves there fed a meat diet. Eat one of those awful smelly things? I'll become a vegitarian first!

[sunshine842]

Bear is pretty darned tasty, if you can get it -- definitely carnivore (tastes a lot like roast pork, though).

Pigs (domestic and wild) are omnivorous, and will kill other animals if the need strikes.

Lots of people eat raccoon and possum in rural areas -- both are omnivorous and will kill if need be.

[John E.]

sunshine, bears are definitely omnivores, including polar bears.

[sunshine842]

But I think we can agree that bear are more likely to deliberately hunt down a meal than the others I mentioned.

(sorry, multitasking and left the post misleading)

[John E.]

Not necessarily. Black bears' diet is vegetation 85%. Polar bears eat seals and coastal bears catch salmon but interior brown bear (grizzley) eat mostly plant matter as well.Bear are opportunistic. They will chase off wolves off a kill and eat meat. They will eat a fawn if given the chance as well but all but polar bears are much more omnvorous than carnivorous but polar bears eat mostly vegetation when off the ice.

[dhmill]

Not a lot of vegetation growing in the far north Arctic. So, not much in the way of acorns,berries,or roots for the Polar bears to eat. Polar bears do hunt and eat seals. By the way,Polar Bears have been known to hunt men too. Turn about is fair play?

[John E.]

Where do you think the polar bears go when the ice melts in the summer? We're not talking global warming here, just seasonal ice changes. They migrate south and eat primarily vegetation. Google Churchill Manitoba and you might get the picture.

[dhmill]

All that I know is that there are not any trees that far north and Churchill is still very far north. I've got the picture. Polar bears raid the garbage dumps in Churchill, they also hunt during the winter and sometime during the year they hibernate for six months.

Here in the lower 48 the bears hibernate during the winter because they primarily eat vegetation but Polar Bears hunt and eat meat during the winter(they need the winter ice for hunting seals) and according to you the Polar bears migrate south for the very short summers. So with winter hunting and the summer berry picking, when is it that they hibernate for six months?

[John E.]

Polar bears do not hibernate for six months. Only pregnant females den up in early winter and emmerge with their cubs about three months later. Other polar bears sleep for extended periods but not in the same sense that other bears do.

By the way, we have land in northern Minnesota and have bears living there. Heck, there are bears all over the northern 1/2 of Minnesota. The cops had to kill a bear in St. Paul recently because it was near a school and would not leave.

[sunshine842]

My point (and there was one) is that there are several animals that consume other animals that are commonly-accepted food sources.

Plenty of carnivorous fish on the table, too.

[dhmill]

Regarding fish: Nearly all of the larger fish eat the smaller fish. Before someone brings it up, the Whale Shark are an exception.

[westsidegal]

would agree with that.
why wouldn't turn about be fair play?

[porker]

As mentioned upthread, dog is not a carnivore.
Some may find the thought distastful, but Tepezcuintle (agouti) is quite tasty and Queen Elizabeth might agree. And do not discount capybara-on-a-stick.

[AsperGirl]

I believe the Chow was bred in China for food. As pets, Westerners have been trying to breed chows to be more sociable for about a century, but they're still considered a vicious and unreliable breed of dog (your insurance can go up if you own one), and they're not very active (so they fatten up easier?) I've never had a lot to do with chows, so I don't know if those descriptions are true.

But, maybe eating a dog that was bred for food would be different than eating a dog bred to be a working dog or loving companion for people?

[Chemicalkinetics]

Actually a Chow-chow is a breed with an aggressive a temperament for hunting dogs and watch dogs. It is one of the oldest breeds, and has very similar DNA as the wolves. I also don't believe Chow-chow is one of the easier dog breeds to get obesity. It can, but it is far from the top. It has a lot of hair..... which is not fat...

[AsperGirl]

It is a very, very old breed, so maybe there were multiple purposes? I just did a google and found this on Wikipedia:

"The black tongued chow was also bred for human consumption" (Schwabe, Calwin W.: Unmentionable Cuisine, page 168. University of Virginia Press, 1979)

It also said they were used for hunting and protection.

"Chow" means food, btw ;)

[Chemicalkinetics]

:) I don't even know why it is called "Chow chow" -- considering its English name does not sound anything like its Chinese names, which would read like "Songshi Quan". Its Chinese name means hairy or puffy lion dog.

[AsperGirl]

Cool, thank you for that info! It does look just like a puffy lion dog.

I'm not sure I would eat a dog, I was just throwing that history out. Chinese history, (and history of Chinese food) is fascinating subject, so I am interested in those details.

[dhmill]

I have been corresponding with a couple of people that live in China. With 1.3 BILLION people the Chinese have had a problem with getting enough food for decades if not centuries. When I tell them that I have deer in my backyard they want to know why no one has eaten the deer. A couple of days ago I saw a flock of 30-40 wild turkeys in a field about a quarter of a mile up the road. They want to see pictures of them to prove that I'm not telling them some far fetched story. They simply don't have many wild animals of any kind that are wandering around. Anything that can be cooked and swallowed is food! That includes dogs. A pet dog that gets loose and runs away is most likely soon going to be someone's dinner.

[AsperGirl]

Wow, we don't hear about that side of things. So sad for the pet dogs & wildlife.

[dhmill]

They do have some wildlife. The Chinese are very pround of their Panda Bears. But there is not much other wildlife.

I have heard that the same situation is true for North Korea. No wildlife,no stray dogs nor stray cats. If it can be eaten it is no longer wandering around. I've heard that the people of North Korea are starving. They lack more than freedom. Ever notice that there are not very many fat people in China either.

[joonjoon]

I heard the food situation is so bad that trees no longer have any bark on them (all eaten), and funerals have to be held in secret because graverobbing is so rampant.

[racer x]

They'd probably flip to hear that we have chickens and peacocks walking around the streets in my neighborhood.

[John E.]

I don't remember where I read it but the Chow is considered one of the least intelligent of all breeds of dogs.

[Chemicalkinetics]

I know Chow chow is known to be difficult to train. It has been described with cat-like independent behavior. This could make the Chow appears dumber than it is.

[AsperGirl]

I just looked it up, & supposedly "chow" is Cantonese for "cook" or "stir fry".

Also, from Wikipedia's "List of English words of Chinese origin": "Chow, from Chinese Pidgin English chowchow which means food, perhaps based on Cantonese 炒, lit. stir fry (cooking)" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Chinese_origin

I'm thinking that if they call the dog "chow", that's a food word. If they call it "chowchow", that's a word for food, too.

The below is from a forum wordorigins.org, on where the word "chow" came from:

The word in Chinese, roughly meaning “to stir-fry” or cook is “ch’au” pronounced as “chow.” “Ch’au-fan” means “fried rice.”
(How do I know?  I was a Chinese linguist for the Air Force.)
Regards,
Tony

There's a whole thread on that http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/...

[Chemicalkinetics]

AsperGirl,

Interesting. Thanks for the information. Yes, CHOW does sound like the Cantonese word for stir-fry.

It seems it was used a semi-Chinese English short phrase:

"'Chow', in the sense of food, is recorded from the mid-19th century. In Spirit of Age, 1856 we get this line:

"Ah Chow- ah in the Celestial lingo means Mr, Chow something good to eat.""

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/92...

and "A chow is a breed of Chinese dog. The reputation that poor Chinese had for eating dogs has led to chow being thought of as a slang term for food."

That being said, poor Chinese don't eat dogs. Rich Chinese may get to eat dogs. It takes more energy to raise a dog for meat, than chicken or pig. So if a person cannot afford to eat chicken or pig, then he certainly cannot buy dog meat. He may able to steal dogs... but that is a different problem.

[ChiliDude]

Yuck!

[babette feasts]

So is that a 'no'?

[dryrain]

I like dogs and always kept them as pets. But I would try dog if i saw it on the menu. Welfare is the issue for me when it comes to what meat I would eat.

[Avalondaughter]

Doubtful. I am a dog lover, but I don't think I"m a crazy dog lover. I don't think dogs should be equated with humans. Quite frankly, humans are kind of sucky creatures, so anthropomorphizing animals doesn't give them a point in my favor. If a dog were starving, would it eat me? Probably. It's a dog. It's an animal. It's not going to sit around thinking about how loveable I am.

But still, having had dogs as pets and been fond of many friends' and family dogs over the years, I would have trouble eating one. Even if it were farm-raised, I'd still wonder how it would taste.

I'm also a horse person and would have a hard time eating horse. I know what kind of meds nad chemicals we pump riding horses full of as well. I just can't imagine horse would be anything other than lean and tough.

If I were starving, that would be a different story. Just out of curiosity, no.

[k_collin]

yes

[PandanExpress]

I've had dog before. I'd probably eat it again if it were more delicious and legal/available. What I remember of it, it was like tough beef.

I don't really get what's the big deal. If you're willing to eat one animal, you should be willing to eat another. Same for different animal parts like offal.

http://www.nakedsushi.net/

[7daysinparis]

Under no circumstances I would eat a dog no matter what country I am in. This has nothing to do with me being a vegetarian but I had dogs all my life. Just the thought of eating a dog makes me sick.

[SeoulQueen]

Would I try dog? ok, why not?
Would I try horse? ok, why not?
Would I try rabbit, guinea pig, lamb, baby calf (veal) etc? ok, why not?

The point is that an animal is an animal and one's decision to eat/not eat a certain animal is usually based on that person's cultural reference points and whether one is anthropomorphizing that animal or not.

If you had dogs as pets all your lives, then you may have a hard time getting past your image of dogs as "family pet" and seeing them as "meat". A friend of mine grew up on a farm and had lambs as pets, so while he wouldn't eat lamb, he used to joke he would have no problems going to Korea and eating dog.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"The point is that an animal is an animal and one's decision to eat/not eat a certain animal...."

Not all animals are the same. They are not the same from a biological point of view and they are not the same from an emotional view. A sponge is an animal, and an elephant is an animal;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponge

Just because I have no problem cutting a live sponge into pieces, it does not mean I can do the same to a live elephant. Vice versa, just because I refuse to hurt an elephant, it does not mean I have to refuse to hurt any animals.

Last I check, human beings are animals too.

What you may not understand is that this is a moral question which of moral value. It is a fundamental value question which is either very difficult or impossible to justify. One may ask: "Would I try to eat human? Why not?" There is no end to these types of "Why not" questions.

[Tripeler]

Perhaps I would eat a dog, but only in self-defense!

[Chemicalkinetics]

How did I miss this important poll?

I can write on and on about my reasons, but ultimately, no.

I will not eat a dog, absolutely not. I think I will lose my self-respect and my soul if I ever eat a dog on purpose (a bit different if someone trick me into it).

[Cremon]

Generally speaking I don't opt for meat from any carnivore unless it comes from the ocean. You can get vitamin A poisoning from eating the liver of most land carnivores. My father told me stories of his visits to the Phillipines as an international marketing manager where he'd see banquets with what looked like a 4 drumstick turkey. He chickened out - especially when he learned how the meal was prepared. They starve the quarry for almost a week and then let it eat rice. A dog that hungry will easily eat 20 lbs of rice. Then it is dispatched and put in to roast. The people will eat the animal as well as the rice it has ingested. I am not grossed out by the idea of eating a dog, though the cruelty aspect does disturb me. But I have no desire to taste a land carnivore at this point in my life except possibly for a snake. Since non indigenous large snakes are everywhere in Florida, eventually people will start eating them. A large burmese python would feed 20+ people. That I WOULD try - but not dogs. I'd have need it to survive before I'd take that step.

[Chemicalkinetics]

It is also very common to beat the crap out of the dogs before butchering them. Some myths about this will make the dogs taste better.....

[Querencia]

10-2-11: I have just read through all 289 posts to this thread and as a result am seriously considering vegetarianism. Ye gods. But in the spirit of communal bloodlust will contribute this: an older Japanese friend told us that in China he had been served live baby mice. The good part was to chopstick them into your mouth and hold them there, enjoying the squirming, before you chewed them up and swallowed them. At least you couldn't do that with your Schnauzer.

[mariacarmen]

that makes me want to kill myself.

[cbjones1943]

I would, probably, eat almost any non-toxic, fresh, edible, digestable plant or animal tissue at least once, if only out of curiosity and/or adventure. A thought I've had more than once is that one might develop a lucrative business selling tissues of animals that otherwise would be euthanized.

[Axlsgoddess]

I would not eat a dog by choice but I would eat one by necessity. That is instinct and the will to survive.

[dreamshak]

definately would have to travel east to try it, no one I suspect could make good dog in the USA...lol

[John E.]

I too have mostly heard of people eating dog in the far east however my uncle has told a story about eating dogmeat in Nicaragua while he was in the navy during WWII.

[DoobieWah]

Two years ago, I might have said "Sure, why not?".

Then I met Tishka. She squeaks when she yawns first thing in the morning.

Now? No way.

[peanuttree]

are dogs animals just like all the other animals we eat?

Well, let's see, cows, pigs, and chickens aren't known for knowingly and willingly saving people's lives, even at their own risk, like dogs are. So in reality they're not the same. Hell, one dog, Balto, saved thousands of people because he did his job (brought medicine to remote area of Alaska)

not to mention the intelligence aspect. Our family dog once listened in on my Mom on the phone, and when she said to her sister, "OK, we're coming over" WITHOUT doing any obvious "Let's go to AUNTIE'S house!" to Crystal (our dog), she already knew that they were going out and was excited and went to the garage.

I'm pretty sure a cow's intelligence never really goes above "walk over there, eat some grass". Especially since that makes sense, since evolutionarily speaking they don't need to be any smarter than that.

[porker]

And don't forget about Laika, the Russian space dog who knowingly and willingly flew Sputnik 2!

[soupkitten]

you don't know much about cows. they are curious and in some cases quite intelligent animals, capable of learning.

many dogs don't have the brains to get a towel off of their own head.

a dog being used as a domestic pack animal, just happens to carry medicine. horses and bovines, oxen etc also are used in cartage and also carry people and lifesaving goods.

every canine in the world is not an empathic lassie type who are "knowingly and willingly saving people's lives." people are attacked, injured and killed by vicious canines more often than by vicious cows, for example-- not that bulls, in particular, are not capable of being very dangerous. pigs are probably just as intelligent as dogs. geese are very intelligent, and exhibit problem solving abilities, including untying knots, which dogs can't do. yet humans eat pigs and geese.

[dhmill]

That dog didn't just happen to be a domestic pack animal. It carried the medicines by itself over a long trail all by itself, on it's own without human guidence!
That is why it is revered.

[peanuttree]

You and the next few comments miss the point.

It's NOT just it's training and breeding, and it OBVIOUSLY isn't. Dogs are known to attack a source of danger to help their humans, or knowingly save humans from danger (like saving from drowning). And even with the sled-pulling, I doubt the dogs have no sense of their purpose. Most dogs KNOW they are doing a job and LOVE to do it. They LIVE to do their job in which they fill there role. For example, Surely a hunting dog KNOWS that it's helping you hunt, for at the end of the day you eat the kill and give him some, there's no way he cn't smell that that is the very same bird he pointed and retrieved.
Yes, dogs can be dangerous, but so can all animals. The fact that they can be so intelligent and helpful is the exception.

And I just straight-up doubt the claim that geese and pigs are similarly intelligent. Pigs I've heard can be especially intelligent, but I doubt it goes to the level of dogs, from what I've seen of dogs.

But there's also the point, made by Fibber McGee above, that dogs, however much comparative intelligence they have over other animals or not, have a SPECIAL ROLE to humans. Its not just tthat they're intelligent, it's that said intelligence is used to massively benefit humans. Sure, from a sheer "is it intelligent?" test to see if a creature can suffer that doesn't matter, but I think that aspect SHOULD matter. Just as much as I would dislike seeing those fun trained dolphins get eaten, or other animals that are special to humans, like horses. I think focusing just on whether the species in question is intelligent and therefore can suffer more is one-dimensional and may ultimately be faulty, in a world where humans to a large extent need to eat meat and protect their crops and buildings and towns.

[RealMenJulienne]

Dogs save people's lives because we've bred and trained them to do so over tens of thousands of years, not because they have courage or any other human morality. It's the same thing as selectively breeding cattle to produce more marbling and chickens to have bigger breasts. Dogs may be more useful in lifesaving and guarding roles than they are as food, but there is nothing special about them in any moral sense.

[Fibber McGee]

You don't believe there is a difference between the role of a dog in a human's life and the role of a chicken in a human's life?
Morally, no, they're all animals bred is subservient roles. But that's a pretty cold, narrow way to base things.

[racer x]

I think we may underestimate dogs.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/worl...

[SeoulQueen]

You're anthropomorphising your dog. It did not "comprehend" that your mother was going to her sister and thus it went to the garage. Dogs are simply much more sensitive in picking up behavior cues from other animals (including us humans) than we are able to detect. That's why you can have a person who is nervous around dogs simply standing still and not doing or saying anything (that we humans can tell) and a dog will still pick up on the person being nervous and react differently to them versus someone who is confident around dogs.

So while you didn't see anything obvious in your mother's behavior, the minute she decided to go out (and this can be to her sister's, the vet or the grocery store), she displayed some subtle behavior (be it body lanugage or voice tone etc) that indicated to the dog that your mother was going to leave the home territory and that is what the dog picked up on and responded to accordingly.

[babybat]

No - not just for sentimental reasons (although I must admit that's part of it) - I don't think I'd want to knowingly eat any carnivorous animal. Cats, birds of prey, and primates are all off the menu; I think one of the reasons the taboo exists is because carnivorous animals may be more likely to harbour pathogens. Kind of like the thing with mercury levels in tuna, because it's eating lots of smaller fish. The fact that I wouldn't eat horses, on the other hand, is all about sentiment!

[hot_sausage]

Dogs are mainly bought-up on a meat-based diet. The regular animals we use for eating (in the western world) are herbivores. I know pigs are omnivores but the pigs we generally eat are fed a herbivore based diet.

I am not sure whether that really makes a difference but it seems weird it is like that. Perhaps we had an aversion to eating an animal that had potentially eaten human flesh.

[Passadumkeg]

Pigs will eat human flesh as well.

[Veggo]

Turnabout is fair play.

[Passadumkeg]

Read some Ambrose Bierce (The Old Gringo who joined Zapata and was never seen again.). His vivid descriptions of Civil War battlefields at night and the dogs and pigs eating still conscious wounded soldiers is memorable. So turnabout is fair play.

[Fibber McGee]

A couple of the ghost tours in Gettysburg talk about that.

[SpokaneFoodLover]

I ate my first bite of dog meat at age 10 in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, at a wedding reception. As a foreigner in the country, at times I simply had to take what was offered me, regardless of my personal feelings. That was also the day I first tried grilled chicken feet, pig offal, and several other culinary delights.

Dog meat wasn't bad, but certainly wasn't tasty enough to become a regular part of my diet. I cannot recall having eaten it since. Interestingly, in Taiwan it is often known by the euphemism, "fragrant meat".

[Klary]

I'd have less issues with eating a dog, cat, guinea pig or horse that had a happy life, than with eating cow, pig or chicken that had a miserable life in one of the meat 'factories'.
I try very hard not to buy or eat meat that is not free -range / organic, and these days I actually get a bit queasy and nauseous when I look at the cheap supermarket meat knowing the conditions the animals had to endure.

So yes, I would probably not go out of my way to find it, but if presented with it, I'd have no problems eating it IF I knew it had a good life before slaughter.

[montrealeater]

Klary - back upthread I posted a response to someone who said something similiar. If this issue gets sticky with me at any point, it's here. It would get even stickier if you included that the slaughter would be humane/painless/instant/not foreknown by the dog. Then it might simply come down to who I like more. Pigs suffering bothers me. Chickens suffering bothers me A BIT, but not much. Fish suffering, hm, not really concerned. Dog's suffering makes me sick.

[pdxgastro]

Did you see the movie about Temple Grandin? She came up with a humane way to bring cows to slaughter.

[montrealeater]

Yeah I did see that, it was fascinating and provoked what became an almost fistfight between my vegetarian sister and various others who were watching it with us. Anything that improves the lives and lessens the stress of animals destined for slaughter is a good thing, imo. The industry is so secretive, I remember wondering after watching that documentary, how many slaughterhouses, and where (N America? Europe? worldwide?) used her ideas?

[westsidegal]

or so she says.

[joonjoon]

I'm Korean, haven't had a chance to try dog but I would!

[montrealeater]

No, never. I believe eating dog is morally wrong.

[kpaxonite]

How is it morally wrong?? Its not as if dogs are becoming extinct

[thew]

can you explain why it is more morally wrong than any other animal?

[montrealeater]

The key word in my comment was "believe". I do personally believe it is morally wrong to eat dogs. To me, dogs are friends and I believe eating friends is wrong.

That is my boiled down comment on the subject, although we could go nuts with sidetracks here (eg. the starvation argument - I would eat dog AND human, probably, if starving, but I don't think I would/could kill either one, it'd have to be dead first, hopefully somewhere nice and cold to keep it fresh).

I don't think it's possible to argue people out of their moral stances, most of the time. It's clear from this thread that many do not agree that eating dog is morally wrong. I doubt I would be able to convince them otherwise, just as I know they would not be able to convince me otherwise. Logic doesn't make me believe that eating dog is wrong, my values/emotions etc. do.

[thew]

all morality is a matter of belief, as it not something one can know. it has no external referent.

i was not trying to convince you out of your moral stance, i was asking to explain your belief to me. you belief it is different, morally, to kill a dog, than a cow. I do not understand the reasoning, so i asked. Not to convince you of anything, but to understand what you are saying more clearly.

[montrealeater]

Thew, I was more replying in a general sense, not specifically to you (i.e. I realize you weren't trying to convince me of anything in your post) - this is a topic that can get very heated and I wanted to be clear about a)my beliefs and b)my acceptance of the fact that others either will or will not share them.

If you want me to explain why I think it is OK to eat a cow, and not a dog, refer to my statement on dogs being "friends". I consider dogs friends. I do not think it is right to eat friends. I do not consider cows or pigs friends. I'm not being facetious here, either, i really mean this, this is the real reason I won't eat dog.

This is a topic it's hard for me to be 'objective' about - I can try to stand back, but I won't be very successful. Dogs and children I cannot be coldly logical about.

[kpaxonite]

How many dogs do you have to be friendly with before you can say dogs are your friends?

[montrealeater]

1 is the definitive answer.

[RealMenJulienne]

Come on guys, quit picking at montreal eater. You don’t have to logically justify a moral belief if 1) It doesn’t hurt anyone 2) You are not trying to impose it on other people. 3) You are not trying to claim the moral high ground

[John E.]

The 'friends' argument is pure emotion because the question was not whether or not someone would eat their OWN dog, just dogmeat. It's perfectly fine that you would not eat dogmeat, I posted that I would not either. If you think it's somehow morally wrong to eat dogmeat but not morally wrong to eat the meat of some other animal, try explaining that to the steer.

[montrealeater]

John E., I have repeatedly said I am using emotion/belief and *not* logic to explain my position here. I have also consciously kept my statements personal. The fact that a belief isn't logical doesn't automatically make it "wrong". The question was not 'what is 2 + 2'. It is a question that is going to bring up strong emotions for many, on either side.

Thank you RealMenJulienne, btw.

[John E.]

I did not write that you were wrong. I simply stated that your position was an emptional rwsponse as a set up to my statement to 'tell that to the steer'. (I even wrote that I thought it was perfectly fine that you would choose to not eat dogmeat).

[doraxkishi]

Probably not, unless I was in a setting where it would be considered offensive to not eat it! I do have a soft spot for all "cute" creatures, such as dogs, cats, guinea pigs, rabbits (though I did partake in rabbit meat recently...). I do think, however, that Americans tend to anthropomorphize all animals somewhat extremely and this just isn't the norm in other cultures. That is why dolphins are not eaten, or guinea pigs, or dogs, I suppose (and whales, if you discount the whole endangered-species bit).

[John E.]

During both the 1988 Seoul and 2008 Beijing Olympics, the host cities banned restaurants from serving dog meat. I suppose the people from the Internation Olympic headquarters in Lausanne, Switzerland decided serving dog meat would offend the sensibilities of the average Olympic attendee.

[klyeoh]

And to think that, at one point a few years back, the Chinese were breeding St Bernards for consumption because that breed of dog yielded more meat. Wonder if that was even true, as I'd been to Beijing/Shanghai & other Chinese cities numerous times but never even heard of such a thing!

[linguafood]

That's an interesting factoid. I thought Switzerland was the only European country that actually served dog meat, too.

[Veggo]

Dog meat is served in Switzerland? I'm glad I have never seen it on a menu there, I would look at my meal with a jaundiced eye.

[mrgreenbeenz]

Absolutely. I was in ROK recently but the stall that served dog in a nearby market just didn't look very good. If Id' gotten those good chowhound vibes off a dog place would have been on it in a minute. Love dogs too, but more to the point, I wouldn't hesitate to miss a new experience. It makes no sense to confuse the two.

Probably would have made more of an effort to track it down but was busy with seven courses of horse sashimi and live sea eel with brains attached that continue to wiggle on the grill for a couple of minutes.

[cgarner]

We (average Americans) don’t want to think of eating the flesh of animals which we consider to be “cute” or “smart” or "loving" to us, yet once it’s wrapped up in plastic in a Styrofoam tray in the grocery store, suddenly it’s not pig, cow, baby cow, any more, it’s pork, beef, veal.

“We” don’t’ care about chickens because they’re dumb and again, we don’t see chickens, we see legs, thighs, boneless skinless breasts with nothing to tie that piece of meat, to the animal it once was.

“We” have no connection to the animals which we consume whatsoever. I personally have learned from being around friends farms that calves love to be scratched and petted and pigs are smart and if they still have their testicles they’re meaner than spit and chickens are funny to watch scratching and pecking and chasing each other away from food that isn’t there

Those who own dogs, know the love and loyalty and companionship that a dog gives to a family and in return gets from the family, therefore the idea of eating something that is capable of giving us such pleasure and comfort is displeasing.

We (average Americans) are fortunate enough to be able to make that decision whether it is a conscious one or not.

My step-father raised horses when he was young. He went into the Army at 17 and went off to WWII, as others have mentioned here, there were times where the soldiers had literally nothing to eat. He had no choice but to eat the flesh of an animal which he identified with as being loving, loyal, smart and beautiful, but it was eat horse-meat or starve, possibly die of starvation.

I won’t argue or cast dispersions on a person who tells me “I could never eat a dog”
You can’t blame that person for being fortunate enough that they’ve never had to make that decision.

[Passadumkeg]

Aaaammmeeeennn! I'm very surprised how often the word "gross" is used on this food site.
My turn: Twinkies, GROSS! Pop Tarts, GROSS! Big Macs, GROSS! Cool Ranch Doritos, GROSS! There, thanks, now I feel better.
I'm not even going on about SPAM.

[Monica]

haha, i always tell my husband, I feel really bad for average Americans who will never get to and won't try to when given a chance to taste foods other than turkey sandwiches and meat loaf.

[linguafood]

THANK YOU!

(for once not going on about spam)

[Passadumkeg]

I've been to SPAM counseling.

[grant.cook]

I wouldn't seek it out, but if protocol demanded it, I'd probably eat what I had to - I am not going to offend a host if they are gracing me at their table.

I am a carnivore, so its a bit hypocritical to look at a pig as tasty vittles and a dog as a companion, but its just how I see it. So no unless it was sort of expected. And I'd respect their cultural aspect of this - I am not going to pull a "I can't see how you eat that, you barbarian" act either..

[Passadumkeg]

Grant, that is exactly the situation at my in-law's farm in S. Korea.
But I will admit, that after months of eating C-rations in Nam, the idea of eating real cooked meat was appealing, even if it was dog. I did have a friend, a LURP, who got stranded on a mission. The ARVN thought he had been killed and ate his pet dog. When he showed up, boy was he pissed!

[porker]

Good story!

[thew]

you're an omnivore. not a carnivore

[AngelSanctuary]

I think I would, I'm a very curious person. I don't know why cats and dogs are so revered though, rabbits are also common pets but a lot of people eat them.

[Passadumkeg]

And pet tarantulas; why don't people eat them? I think we have a good case of specieism here.

[sunshine842]

because it's a big, hairy spider. (shudder)

Gawd, I hate spiders.

[thew]

people do eat them - they are for sale in every market in cambodia, as snacks

[Passadumkeg]

Yes, I'm aware, but the response I wanted to elicit was from Sun. So if it is cute, we can't eat it, but if it's ugly or repulsive we can. Hmmmmm, people are animals too as mentioned above.

[sunshine842]

No, I don't see myself eating spiders any day soon -- I'm okay with bunnies and lambies and Bambis on my plate, but jayzus, not a SPIDER.

[hsk]

Really? I don't recall seeing any in siem reap or phnom penh, not that I was looking. How are they prepared? I personally don't see a lot of difference between eating a spider and, say, a lobster. I would try one if it looked and smelled delicious.

[kpaxonite]

I saw them on bizarre food and I think no reservations as well... I believe they are deep fried

[thew]

they seemed fried. i didn't eat one because the woman i was traveling with said if i did there would be no kissing. now she's gone, and i regret the choice

[eclecticsynergy]

It would be difficult for me to eat a pet. Near impossible to eat an acquaintance.
In exigent circumstances such as starvation, I think I probably could eat human to survive, providing the person was already dead- Andean plane crash, for instance- but no slaughtering, as in long-pork-to-feed-the-crew. And there would certainly be remorse to deal with afterward. But that's culturally imposed. Historically many cultures have embraced the enthusiastic consumption of enemies. Some have embraced ritual consumption of honored elders.

A beloved pet dog would not hesitate to eat you if you were dead and it was hungry. Coroners tell us most housecats will begin to feed before the body is even cold. I've already eaten cat, albeit without knowing it 'til afterwards. Yes, I might try dog even knowing what it was, providing it was raised for meat and smelled really delicious. I've had several people whose opinions I trust tell me it's excellent, not to be missed.

I'd still have to think it over, though. As some have said, under the right circumstances, if that were what was being served and others were doing the same. Do not think I could order it off a menu.

[kpaxonite]

One of the issues brought up in the thread that amazes me is the number of people who would eat it if it was served but wouldn't order it off a menu. I wonder whether it has to do with being polite and a good guest or whether other underlying causes are at play

[linguafood]

I thought it seemed fairly clear that many wouldn't decline a dog meal *served* to them as guests in someone's home, but would not *voluntarily* order meat off a menu.

Not all that complicated, really.

I think you might be trying to read too much into people's replies (or perhaps you just can't accept people's honest & often fairly expansive answers).

[mschow]

Absolutely not. Dogs have provided me some of the best memories in my life. I'd sooner eat off my own leg.

[rohirette]

I would eat it if hungry (not even starving, just... if I was hungry, and that was all that was available.)

The taboo in the West would be enough to keep me from ordering it off of a menu with other options.

But my brain explodes when I read people equating animal life, even the lives of our pets, with humans.

[eclecticsynergy]

"But my brain explodes when I read people equating animal life, even the lives of our pets, with humans."

Exchange from a Monty Python skit:
patient: "Doctor, my brain hurts."
doctor, after briefly examining patient: "Right, it'll have to come out!"

[crowmuncher]

"But my brain explodes when I read people equating animal life, even the lives of our pets, with humans."

But aren't we all animal life?

[mariacarmen]

i'm with you. my head explodes in the other direction when people think human life is superior to anything else in the universe. we're just another organism, part of a system.

[kpaxonite]

Do you believe in evolution?

[thew]

evolution is not a drive from inferior to superior. it is a drive to short term adaptability to changing circumstances.

[kpaxonite]

Yes, that is true; however in the case of human evolution, we have evolved to become the dominant (superior) species which early humans certainly weren't.

[thew]

we and early humans are the same, evolutionarily speaking - so I'm not sure what you mean.

[kpaxonite]

H. antecessor, H. cepranensis, H. erectus, H. ergaster, H. floresiensis, H. gautengensis, H. georgicus, H. habilis, H. heidelbergensis, H. neanderthalensis, H. rhodesiensis, H. rudolfensis, H. sapiens idaltu

Are all early humans, all extinct, and had different evolutionary traits. H. Sapiens are the only living humans and not at all the same in evolutionary terms with early humans. We are the dominant and superior species; there is a reason we are alive and early humans aren't.

[thew]

those are all hominids (or hominims, as i think the new nomenclature is), not humans (except for idaltu and maybe neanderthal, though fewer and fewer scientists think so). the only human species is H. sapiens.

[rohirette]

Doesn't matter if we are superior, or not, or if our lives are innately more valuable, or not.. We are humans, and we have been so succesful because we do whatever it takes to ensure our own survival.

One of our greatest strengths is the ability to eat most anything- including dog.

[crowmuncher]

"the ability to eat amost anything" sounds like something a roach can do; perhaps when we make it to extinction we'll know if evolution is overrated

[crowmuncher]

Realize u wrote most" just cant edit on my phone :)

[John E.]

I'm with you. If I allowed it to, it would drive me nuts when people, apparently including a small minority here, put anthropomorphic qualities on animals, whether those anomals are traditionally eaten by people here or elsewhere.

[iheartcooking]

It doesn't appeal to me for some of the reasons folks have already said, texture, flavor, and I have a cute little puppy.
But, I'm also an adventurous eater and I don't think I'd be able to resist at least trying it.

[kpaxonite]

If you are worried about texture perhaps giving the dog daily massages would help :)

[Duppie]

....with beer...Kobe Dog?

[tcamp]

Boy, my dog would love that. Until the last day, of course.

[Duppie]

Yeah...what is it with dogs and beer? every dog I've ever had loved beer.

[klyeoh]

The one I had in Korea had the texture of chicken dark meat.

[sweet_polly]

Absolutely not. Dogs are not called "Man's Best Friend" for nothing...they've earned that title through their devotion, protection and loyalty to our species. The very thought sickens me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

This is actually a no-brainer for me. Farm-raised dog, or even pet of someone else who I didn't know...sure I'll try it. I'll try pretty much anything at least once. My pet...not so much.

We raised rabbits when I was young and I got to know them. It was "a bit different" eating them for dinner some nights, but it was just how we lived and got by.

[John E.]

Speaking of pets....my father tells of when his dad butchered their pet goat in about 1943. It was during WWII and with food rationing meat was not easy to come by. That goat meat was what they ate for meat for part of the winter. His mother had to cook their supper in mid-afternoon because she had to go clean offices in downtown Minneapolis at 5pm. He said he and his brothers could tell when their mother was cooking goat for supper because they could smell it about three blocks away as they were walkng home from school. He also said it smelled better than it tasted. My grandfather used to work in a tannery when he first emmigrated to this country so he tanned the hide of "Billy". I stll remember that goat hide with the hair still on it draped over the back of a stuffed chair in my grandma's basement. I wonder which one of my counsin's got the goat hide after she died?

[porker]

Have a friend who owns a scrapyard. He thought so highly of one of his dogs, he had him stuffed after he expired. He stood in the office for years.
Alas a newly acquired pitbull tore him to shreds on his first day of the job.

[dulce lover]

I have a friend who was stationed in Korea for a bunch of years and he gave me the number one reason to never eat dog....they apparently taste better when the muscles are full of adrenaline, unlike venison, so the animals are beaten brutally with a stick before slaughter. Kind of throws all the other reasons for/arguments against right out the window. I know 'meat's meat and ya gotta eat' but that is just too much for me.

[John E.]

Does anyone else remember The Far Side cartoon with the castaways in the lifeboat with the dog?

http://www.google.com/m/search?site=i...

The caption is missing, but it read something like "Fair is fair Larry, you drew the short straw and now we have to eat you".

Any bets on how long it will be before this thread is shut down?

[lcool]

nope,Veggo and I,as well as a few others have been heavily sanitised,even on subject

[porker]

I remember that exact Larson as if it were yesterday. The smug expression on the dog's face is PRICELESS.
I don't know if its an attraction on the theme, but I liked the one where scraggly survivors are on an inflatable raft in the ocean. One of the guys is reaching for a box floating by on the water and is saying something like "lookey here, what do we have?" and the box is stamped with "ACME Tack, Nails, and Broken Glass Company"

[hsk]

No. And not all restaurants in Seoul serve dog meat, it was quite easy to stick to places that didn't.

[kpaxonite]

I never made that assertion - the vast majority don't serve dog meat. All I said is if I ended up somewhere that served it I would gladly and probably enthusiastically order it. Why wouldn't you?

[hsk]

Because I think of dogs as pets and the thought of eating one grosses me out so I don't think I would enjoy it. It's like the time I was in Yangon at a restaurant having "mutton curry" it tasted ok, not great, but I was eating it until I encountered the smallest bones I had ever seen in mutton. I decided it had to be a rodent of some sort and I didn't gag or anything but I couldn't eat another bite (of that, I still finished my meal).

[Passadumkeg]

This thread has got me thinkin'. I've had dogs all my adult life. But I had no problem eating dog in Asia. I'm a combat medic (corpsman) from Nam. Two rhetorical questions. Are we such an affluent, sterile nation that we lose perspective of the needs of other less fortunate cultures? Two, does my Vietnam experience give me a different view on what life is valuable and what is not? I'm an English and art teacher, not a barbarian. Human life is holy.

[Duppie]

Not a vet but lived,traveled and experienced a number of cultures as have you. I try to respect traditional foods and am aware that what we may consider pets here in America could very well be the only protein source in other cultures. There is nothing more sacred than human life.

[mariacarmen]

hmmm PDK .... i don't particularly find human life holy. if i did, i'd rather say that all life is holy. but i don't think any of it is holy. it just is.

and i am positive your Nam experiences influenced you and gave you awareness of what is valuable and what is not. but that's not the only experience that does that for people, right? we all find it in different ways, if we find it at all.

[Passadumkeg]

Hmmm, maybe I got a "vegetabletarian" inside me. Food is culture. Death gives a greater appreciation for life. Dog is just one more meat. Lambs are cute too and deliscious.
Life is holy.
Teach me to dance.
Zorba Keg

[mariacarmen]

"vegetabletarian" - like!

[TheHuntress]

Hmmm, interesting questions to pose. First of all I am Australian, not North American, but for all intents and purposes we have a similarly affluent culture. I have lived in very rural and remote parts of Australia that do not have the same resources and priviliges of so many living in towns or cities. I was fortunate enough to be friendly with local indigenous people, who still engaged in traditional hunting. If I tell city folk that I had the opportunity to east such critters as dugong (similar to your manatee), turtle and goanna they would be horrified. Up there it was a way of life, people using the resources available to them. If dog happens to be your available resource, well so be it. My unwillingness to knowingly eat dog is a cultural thing and I absolutely acknowedge that. For all I know it could be delicious and I'm missing out.

[wadejay26]

Yes, I would eat dog meat.
Slightly off topic, can someone answer why we (in the US) do not eat dolphin meat?

[Duppie]

"Flipper"

[kpaxonite]

Probably for the same reason people don't eat cats and dogs....they are cute and humans can interact with them in a friendly way. Or because people think they are too smart to be eaten. Another question is why you don't eat seals

[porker]

Cinquieme Peche serves seal
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/800656
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/795467

[kpaxonite]

I know, that's actually specifically why I said *you* to wade who said he lives in the US.

[Passadumkeg]

I ate pink river dolphin dolphin in Bolivia, in a small river village, w/ an Italian physcian disciple of Albert Schweitzer.

[TheHuntress]

I'd give dolphin a shot, but ya, I still couldn't knowingly eat dog. Unless the starvation issue was at play, thankfully I have never been without resources or that hungry.

[Harters]

No.

At least not knowingly or willingly.

[ospreycove]

In the end.......It is all protein. A few studies after WWII mentioned that if cultural taboos were not in play fewer people would have died of starvation.
Raccoon
dog(vietnam)
woodchuck
royal rat, Garafuna (Roatan)
all offal
reptiles, snakes, turtles, Iguana (I think) and amphibians frogs, etc.
songbirds, (Italy illegal but wnat is eaten in abruzzese mountains)
As I said it is all protein, some more tasty than others

[Passadumkeg]

But the Brits preferred SPAM!

[wordong]

Yes.

[LorenM]

Yes, I would eat dog in an appropriate setting along with any other thing people regularly eat and enjoy. I don't let the "idea" of things get in the way of what might otherwise be a great food experience. I probably would have missed out on a lot of things already, if I did. I'll try anything as long as it's legal, safe, not endangered and enjoyed by people as food (but not items eaten solely on spiritual grounds or for medicinal purposes). I like dogs, too but don't anthropomorphize them. Animal protein is animal protein.

[NicoleFriedman]

If I was starving, yes. If not, no. It's the same reason I can't eat pork; I know too well how intelligent they are. Do I have cultural bias? Of course, but that doesn't change how I feel. I would not look down upon people in Korea who eat them though; they grew up thinking it was normal.

[porker]

oi, I think "they grew up thinking it was normal" is gonna get hot....

[thew]

they didn't just think it was normal.

[Monica]

You are alreading looking down on them by saying 'they grew up thinking it was normal'.

[sunshine842]

If I recall correctly, a lot of your cultural bias *just might* have something to do with your religious heritage. Do you look down on people who don't share your religious background because they *do* eat pork?

[EllyK]

For me, its not about the animal I am eating, but how it was treated. I wouldn't want the life of the animal I am eating to have been miserable, regardless of the animal (I just came back from China, where the way they treat animals has left me a little shocked). That is what distresses me, not whether someone is eating it.

[porker]

I get the feeling then, you'd love to eat my Dixie!
Tongue in cheek, but most domestic pets are treated more than humanely than livestock...does that make them more appealing to you?

[kpaxonite]

Sounds like Elly has a healthy diet of housepets

[montrealeater]

EllyK, I just wanted to give you a thumbs up for this comment. I do not have a problem with animals being killed to feed humans (well, other than dogs, see post below), but I *do* have a problems with animals being made to suffer. It is arguably possible to raise and slaughter an animal with very little or no suffering involved.

I think some people see slaughter as the ultimate evil/concern and others see the conditions of the critter's life as the ultimate concern. Given the choice, I would always pay more, even quite a lot more, for meat that had been raised and slaughtered humanely.

[nvcook]

Perhaps, only perhaps, if I were starving and had not yet named it.

[John E.]

I highly doubt I would eat dog meat, but not really because of the reasons some others have posted. I would skip it because I think it would either be gamey, tough, or both. The other reason is because of disease and parasites. Other more typical animals raised for human consumption have entire industries devoted to raising them (like it or not) for humans to eat. I understand there are some operations that are less than clean and humane, but I know nothing of how dogs are raised for human consumption. I mostly envision a stray dog being nabbed, butchered, cooked and served. No thank you. (My reasons against eating dogs have nothing to do with them being dogs. Ask the cow what she thinks.)

[Passadumkeg]

They have dog "farms" in S. Korea. Two different words for dog; one means pet and the other meat.
Not gamey or tough.

[John E.]

I suppose it's more of a cultural thing then. My point is that it's not because a dog is usually a pet that I would be reluctant to eat one. I would not eat a wolf, coyote, or fox either.

[kpaxonite]

Well then perhaps your post should have just said no because you're a picky eater. Plenty of animals are hunted in the wild and eaten like deer and duck and crocodiles. In Canada dog meat is legal if it inspected by the food agency (though I've never ever heard of anyone seeing it).

[porker]

I'm not an expert, but I'm guessing that the legality issue only comes into play if dog meat is to be sold, in other words, it isn't illegal until you want to sell it uninspected. The same with deer, or perch, or wapati - no need for inspection if for personal use, yet illegal to sell if not inspected.

[kpaxonite]

I suppose... You can probably kill and eat whatever animal you want as long as it isn't endangered (or human....)

Then again deer has a hunting season.- is it open season on dogs year-round?

I'm just picturing the reaction if someone brought dog meat to a bring your own meat party lol

[porker]

Deer are generally wild game and thus the regulated season. Dog, not so much. I'd figure they're more like hogs or beef (or farm-raised deer) - raise 'em and harvest them year round.

[Passadumkeg]

Like Veggo stated above, dog packs were rampant in the NYC suburban areas (Yes, V, New Haven is a burb of NYC, just as Princeton, NJ is. Oh, yes don't Tigers eat Bull Dogs and Quakers?) I was tree'd by a pack and couldn't go to school in 4th grade. We used to shoot wild dogs, when deer hunting as a service to the deer.

[kpaxonite]

So you were shooting deer and protecting them tooÉ lol

[Passadumkeg]

Dogs kill deer and don't even eat them. Blood lust. Enjoy your plastic wrapped, guiltless supermarket meat.

[kpaxonite]

hey I gladly eat venison beef horse from my supermarket ...

[Passadumkeg]

You're missing, blood pudding. fresh liver, sweet breads and natural sausage casing. Enjoy the polyvinyl chlorides in the plastic wrap.

[John E.]

I'm curious as to how many deer and ducks (not to mention geese, pheasants, grouse, bear, woodcock, dove, rabbit, and squirrels you've shot, butchered, cooked and eaten) because I have done it all. I have never shot, butched, cooked and eaten dog, not because it bothers me because it's traditionally a pet, but because it's not part of my culture. I have eaten alligator. There is no tradition of eating crocodile in the U.S. because they are a protected species in southern Florida, which is the only place they live in the U. S. If I were in a situation where it was either starve or eat the family dog (or wolf or coyote), of course I would eat it. (The cat would not be safe either).

[klyeoh]

On the subject of cats, the Chinese here in Singapore used to catch older cats & boil them with chicken, sugarcane & medicinal herbs - the resultant broth had all the curative qualities of chicken soup, plus some additional feline flavor.

[kpaxonite]

what is feline flavour

[klyeoh]

Don't know - never tried, and don't intend to!

[mariacarmen]

Nope, not dogs or cats, and it's purely emotional. love them, mine or anyone's, too much.
As for the cute thing, i recently ate llama in Bolivia. it was delicious.

[Passadumkeg]

but we happily ate dolphin in tuna and wipe out the blue fin tuna.
What a funny species we are.
golly gee grandson, I can remember when the gulf of Maine had fish and the US a fishing fleet.

Eat 'em all, eat 'em , the long and the short and the tall.

[porker]

Only when the last tree has died and the last river poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

[crowmuncher]

amen

[porker]

-old Cree saying

[Passadumkeg]

Old Navajo saying (My neck of the woods.), I grew up knowing it's wrong to have more than you need. It means you're not taking care of your people.

[Matahari22]

H to the E to the double L, NO!

[alliegator]

I'm going to vote no one this one. I certainly don't condemn those who do. Ever culture has it's own food practices, and I am in absolutely in no position to think poorly about anyone who does eat dog.
But I have 2 dogs I love more than anything, and I just couldn't feel good about it for myself.
If I were traveling and found myself in a place that served it, I'm sure there would be something else on the menu I could chose.

[thew]

your don't have to tell your dogs.....

[C70]

nope, never, not even if I was starving. why prolong the inevitable

[LacyH]

Well considering the fact that I don't eat any meat or animal byproducts that would have to be a big fat NO!

[basketwoman]

depends.....would that be considered red meat, or white meat?

[porker]

Could be a marketing strategy: dog, the other, other white meat. Maybe in the meat aisle between capybara and gibnut.

[basketwoman]

:)

[Passadumkeg]

Don't knock capybara. How do you get around the rodent issue.

[Duppie]

Actually quite tasty along with Agouti and Tapir.....If dressed well and curried.

[Passadumkeg]

I shot one in The Beni in Bolivia. Roasted on a spit.

[Duppie]

has to be washed in lime juice....cuts the rodent rank and tang,then the sky's the limit....

[mariacarmen]

who are you, Ted Nugent?

[meatn3]

:-D

His cook book is a trip!

[porker]

I had me some in tomato sauce in Belize. The English speaking folk call em gibnut, the Maya call them tepesquintle (and get a glint in their eye when speaking about them). I call them tasty.

[Veggo]

I'm no fan of capybara. I never ate one, but one bit me in Costa Rica.

[sunshine842]

now THERE's a sentence you don't hear every day! Do you at least have a scar you can wield as a visual aid to the story?

[Veggo]

Mental scarring. 4 of us were having lunch on the terrace at the Ocotal on Nicoya peninsula and a capybara emerges from the shrubbery scavanging for handouts. Without provocation, it lunges at my leg and chomps on my calf. My 3 friends still get a good laugh about it.

[sunshine842]

Holy cow. At least it's a good story!

(and they're big enough, it's not like you can just dislodge 'em with a good kick!)

[PeterL]

Why not? I have eaten dog (in a stew). I actually don't like it nearly as much as pork. But just asking this questions certainly reflects a cultural bias. Would Indians eat beef? Would Muslims eat pork?

[JMF]

I've eaten some stranger things than dog. I took classes, and then later taught, in a wilderness survival school. Now, I wouldn't eat a pet, but that's because they are fed such a disgusting diet. But a nice corn and vegetable fed, farm raised, tender young dog. You betcha.

[porker]

Kinda like pigeon - city pigeon scares me (in a disgusting way). Shoot me a bush pigeon, tasty.

[porker]

Careful, you'll open up a whole can of worms with a corn-fed versus grass-fed dog debate...

[pinehurst]

Porker, my grandpa ate city pigeons (albeit almost 100 years ago) and squirrels too. He had nine kids, and times were tough.

[porker]

Yeah, times were tough, my dad told stories of stealing chickens in the night and eating nothing but cabbage for days on end.
I've eaten squirrel and pigeon, but taken from the bush. Those city slickers surely are edible, but I guess with a choice and times being somewhat easier, I'll pass for the time being.
I remember reading an article about California farmlands and a huge influx of migrant workers who brought their eating habits with them (from all over the world - N/S America, Asia, Europe, etc). The workers began trapping wild animals for their own consumption and soon there were localized population drops of various species including snakes, rats, and mice.

[JMF]

My father tells stories about when he was a prisoner in a Siberian camp during WWII and they had been given an allotment of sugar, but no food. They were starting to come down with scurvy and collected pine needles and the few herbs and grasses left in the camp, and made a huge cauldron of sweet pine needle tea. They let it sit out overnight so that the roaches and rodents would climb in and drown. Then they brought it to a boil again and ate/drank it. Now THAT'S tough times!

Makes the thought of dog, flying rats, etc. sound pretty damn good.

[Passadumkeg]

Makes C-rations look like manna of the Gods.

[Passadumkeg]

Frankly, meat is meat. I was more put off w/ cuy(guinea pig). They leave the tiny paws on. Gotta go; the god damn dog is barking. Hmmmmm, What to cook for breakfast? Not much in the fridge. Boy the dog sure looks good....

ps Our Lab is a poop eater. I'd never eat her. You are what you eat? Gag!

[Humbucker]

Guinea pigs eat their own poop, too. It's normal for a lot of animals and called coprophagy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia

[Veggo]

hence the "coprophagious grin"

[linguafood]

:-D. hilarious!

[kpaxonite]

Apparently where I live dog meat is completely legal to eat and sell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_meat .... I wonder what would happen if some tried to open such a restaurant though,,,,

[porker]

You mean the Plateau? Hehe.
Montreal would sooner shut you down for not having the right cash register...{;-/).
Likely PETA would burn you out...

[pinehurst]

I think of canines as companions, not chow. I have a 14 year old hound that I cuddle with every night, and I wouldn't want to eat his cousin, however distant.

Off topic, my mom had a pet duck as a child and never ate duck as a result. So to each his/her own.

[LittleBee]

I don't know. Not if I wasn't starving... and even then I don't know... I remember watching "The Road" with Viggo Mortenson, and there was a family of survivors with a pet dog. Why didn't they eat their dog, I wondered...
would I rather starve to death or eat a dog... I am surprised this is a hard question! I guess because I keep thinking of MY dog, or my cats. Maybe if it was a dog I didn't know and love, AND it was post-apocalypse AND I'd eaten the last of my hoarded cans of tuna. Then, maybe yes.

[LeoLioness]

I guess in a "would I eat a dog to survive" question, I guess if eating said dog would actually be the difference to me surviving whatever horrible conditions I were in and getting out of them, then sure, pass the leash. But if eating roasted poodle would merely extend this hypothetical existence, then I'd take a pass. Not to mention the fact that I'd probably be gagging/retching the 1-2 bites I might actually be able to stomach anyway.

[raytamsgv]

Yes, I would. I've already eaten cat meat, so fairness dictates that I should eat dog meat as well.

[Peg]

I don't eat meat, but in a crisis I would consider it.
And a dog is no different ot any other animal - so yes, I would.

[kmcarr]

Peg, your answer reminds me of something a colleague in graduate school said. She posited a hypothetical; "If I were stranded on an island with another person and a dog, with just enough food to give to one of them I'm not sure which I would choose." Then she asked what I would do. The look of horror on her face was priceless when I answered "I'd kill the dog and we would both eat it."

I'm with you, if it's saving a human vs. saving a dog, the human wins every time.

[LittleBee]

after much reflection, I'm with you too.

same reason.

[Heatherb]

Couldn't do it (unless I was literally starving, but heck, I'd eat a person then too). I grew up training dogs from the time I could walk - I don't consider them on par with people, but I do consider them a companion animal. They serve so many other functions and they are genuine in their affection. My dogs would die to protect me. Knowing the species is capable of that, I couldn't bring myself to eat them for pleasure. There is speculation among scientists that dogs as a species changed the evolution of human brains - that they helped us develop some of our better traits.

[lcool]

Yes,already have during our long stints in Asia and would again.The best was in ROK,South Korea,raised on a diet of "dog rice" (mostly barley) for human consumption.The Vietnamese and Burmese do a good job of it also,Laos and Cambodia not so good.
As for fresh,raw I will take my buzzards here,Montgomery Co Md and ancestral home,3 counties in eastern Montana as qualified experts.They pick a dog clean faster than anything else I have seen.

However I would also prefer to see an export of dogs like in these links put to a better use in a protein starved world.

#1 http://www.nbcnews.com/news/local/bus-driver-hailed-as-hero-in-dog-attack

#2 http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dog-attack-on-pr-georges-school-bus-injures-four-students

#3 http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loc...

#3 has much to see when you google it

note that both of these were in the same week,an all too common event,not just in the DC area

[sparrowgrass]

Nah. Mine are too old. They would be tough.

[sunshine842]

mine is spoiled rotten.

[sparrowgrass]

You should have eaten him last week.

[mariacarmen]

ahahahahahah! good one.

[BobB]

Sure. I'm a cat person. ;-)

[Passadumkeg]

I ate dog in 'Nam, preferred it to C-rations. In S. Korea we were invited to my DIL's grandfather's farm and "honored" w/ a dog feast. Liver soup, ribs, and stir fry. Just another meat. I sometimes jokingly threaten our Lab and call her Don Kay, the Korean word for dog meat.
Give me enough So Ju and I'll eat almost anything. The live baby octopus was a challange, however.

[sunshine842]

gah. I should think.

[tcamp]

I would try it. I may have already but don't really know.

Dogs raised for food doesn't seem terribly different from guinea pigs, rabbits, pigs, and all those other "cute" animals we eat.

I'm a dog lover and have two of my own which of course I'd never eat. Although I do periodically warn the chubby chi mix that he would make a tasty shish kabob in the event of a national food emergency.

[BananaBirkLarsen]

I also have a chubby chi mix that I like to threaten when it's too hot to go grocery shopping...

[monavano]

Never, ever. I'd eat worms first.

[bdachow]

Sure why not? Haven't tried it and like you've stated, raised specifically for the purposes of being slaughtered. I almost had it in China, it was stewing away in a pot in the middle of winter in Beijing. My travel group was having none of it though so didn't get to try. Shame.

The way I figure it, humans are kind of the top of the food chain these days and if faced with starvation, Fido or Fluffy is gonna get it. Basic human nature to survive.

[RealMenJulienne]

Oh yeah I would, and I have. It was served hot pot style in a southern Chinese restaurant, boiled to oblivion in a cauldron of spicy broth so I can’t really say how it tasted. Someday I’d like to try a more minimalist preparation like a simple roasted chop to get an idea of the real taste.

I don't really see why anyone has an ethical problem with it. Pigs are way smarter than dogs but no one cares that we slaughter them by the truckload.

[crowmuncher]

"Pigs are way smarter than dogs but no one cares that we slaughter them by the truckload."
i have a problem with this double standard too. Why would it be ok for me to eat a pig, but not a dog?

[LeoLioness]

What's the difference between a double standard and a societal norm? It's not really "okay" to do many things in some countries that are perfectly acceptable or expected in others.

[crowmuncher]

"What's the difference between a double standard and a societal norm?" i don't know actually, perhaps double standard wasn't the the best choice of words. All i know is some people in my society feel that it is ok to eat a pig and but not ok to eat a dog. I understand this is a personal choice, so personally I would not eat a pig if i would not eat a dog. Sorry if that confused you more...

[kpaxonite]

Based on your previous posts ... are you a vegetarian? You`ve implied eating a dog is a step away from eating a human and now are equating pigs and dogs...so following the logic, eating a pig is also a step away from eating humans?

Also why does animal have to be stupid for us to think it`s ok to eat? And where do you draw the line ...if a fish is smarter than a chicken for example

[crowmuncher]

"You`ve implied eating a dog is a step away from eating a human"
not so, again this is a PERSONAL choice, i believe eating a dog FOR ME (not you) is as bad as eating a human; not a step away, the SAME actually...

yes, i am "equating pigs and dogs"; many people enjoy pigs as pets as they do dogs

"Also why does animal have to be stupid for us to think it`s ok to eat...and where do (I) draw the line?"
this one i struggle with personally because i do eat seafood (I'm not a vegetarian); if i had an aquarium I probably wouldn't; if that seems illogical to you I completely understand because it is. This is why i would never judge anyone for eating a dog, a pig, a fish, or a human (i think that's illegal though) for that matter...

As I've stated in previous threads, we must do what is best for US as individuals.

[Delucacheesemonger]

, eating a pig is also a step away from eating humans?

Much literature suggests that the reason why Jews and Muslims do not eat pork is that the flesh is too similar to human.

[BobB]

Really - "much literature"? I was raised as a pretty well-informed and widely-read Jew (though now a confirmed atheist), and I've NEVER heard that one before. The rule of kashrut for land animals does not single out pigs at all - in fact it's pretty simple: to be kosher, an animal must have a cloven hoof and chew its cud (and, of course, be ritually slaughtered).

Thus cattle, sheep, goats, deer, and bison are kosher. Pigs, camels, horses and rabbits (among many others) are not. You just hear more about observant Jews not eating pork because it's so commonly eaten in the gentile world. But would you compare rabbit, horse or camel meat to human? Personally I find rabbit to be very much like chicken (albeit with more annoying tiny bones). Horsemeat is more like venison. I've never tried camel - or human, for that matter.

[sunshine842]

enough so that medical training sometimes uses pork because the skin and flesh react similarly to human flesh when punctured by hypodermic and suture needles (and I *think* I saw an episode of Miami Ink where they had an apprentice practicing putting ink on a pork roast. Hey, I had the flu....)

[dhmill]

Pork is not eaten because the pig is considered a "dirty" animal. Dirty has nothing to do with it's mud baths. Pigs do not sweat so the mud is a means to cool off. However, pigs will eat anything that they can swallow. A friend used to collect dead diseased chickens from the local egg farm and feed them to his pigs. The pigs would gobble them down,feathers and all.

[John E.]

What your friend did is not conducive to raising good quality pork. I grew up in hog country and know a lot of swine producers and none of them feed their hogs anything but the highest quality feed.

[dhmill]

I know that John. Chuck was trying to raise his hogs as cheaply as possible and he got the chickens for free. By the way, I would never eat any of his pork.

[westsidegal]

what about this?
http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/c...

[John E.]

That story is full of interesting anecdotes. I wonder what the majority of hof producers in the big hog producing areas of the country are feeding their animals?

[Chemicalkinetics]

I am pretty sure the reason Muslims and Jews do not eat pork is not because pork fles is too similar to human. Hindus do not eat cows because cows are holy/sacred. Muslims do not eat pigs because pigs are dirty. Very different and rather opposite reason.

[linguafood]

And just as random as all religious food dogma.

Look, ma, dog! Ha.

[dhmill]

I don't really know about India but every Indian restaurant that I've been to in the U.S. has served beef. Maybe it's only certain cows that are sacred. I've seen pictures and movies of India which showed cows wandering the streets but they were lone cows, certainly not herds of cows.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"I don't really know about India but every Indian restaurant that I've been to in the U.S. has served beef."

In my case, I will say about half of the Indian restaurants I have been to serve cow, and half do not. It is about business. In addition, not all Hindus takes that religion nearly as serious others, and some are not even Hindus. Just like Jews. In theory, a Jew should not eat pork, yet almost all my Jewish friends do not eat pork. Muslims in general take their religion rules more seriously. Nevertheless, the point is that cows are scared in Hindu. The rationale for not eating cows is the opposite for Muslim refusing to eat pigs.

[Veggo]

Not sure what the cows are scared of, if nobody's eating them..:)

[porker]

I think its a spelling mistake, I'm guessing Chem meant "Nevertheless, the point is that cows are scared in Hindi"
They're not so scared in English {;-/)

[Veggo]

Not after the "eat mor chikin' " campaign got legs...

[montrealeater]

Isn't the typo that 'scared' should be 'sacred'? Either way, it made me laugh. Cute typo.

[porker]

Actually I think its supposed to be cows being scarred by Hindus.

[Veggo]

This is so sad, those poor cows, my eyes are welling up, I need a Kleenex...scar tissue...

[porker]

Stop, stop, I'm getting scarred stiff....

[Chemicalkinetics]

Funny, my first time spelling is correct, then I spelled it wrong the second time:
"Hindus do not eat cows because cows are holy/sacred. ...."

"cows are scared in Hindu"

See the difference? :D

[pikawicca]

Really? There are three Indian restaurants in my town and none of them serve beef.

[will47]

Not all Indians are Hindu, and, more importantly, most visitors to US Indian restaurants are not Hindu.

One bad thing about the system in India is that while cows are revered by some groups, there are areas where the cows can't be killed, but, since the male cows aren't useful for milk, they end up being neglected or underfed. So, while they're not killed, from what I've heard (and they're probably better off than some animals in factory farms) they're not always living the high life either.

[Chemicalkinetics]

Good point. Not all Indians are Hindu. Some of the US Indian restaurants are operated by Muslims for example, which has no trouble of serving and eating beef.

[montrealeater]

I saw a documentary about this. (I watch a lot of obscure-subject documentaries) - a lot of the cows, who are free range in cities and rural areas, eat garbage. The garbage gets all twisted up inside their bellies and they swell up, can't eat, and will eventually die of malnutrition. Some Aussie vet was traveling around India doing surgery on these cows - local anaesthetic, cut 'em open, and YANK out these huge piles of plastic and garbage. It was gross but also oddly satisfying to see the animals relieved and happy afterwards.

[hsk]

Male cows? They're not scared or sacred, since they don't actually exist. They're either bulls or steers. I'm not Hindu but I didn't get the impression that they were revered, there were lots of bovine beasts of burden whenever I was in india which I assumed were the males.

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Male cows? They're not scared or sacred, since they don't actually exist. "

Actually cow has two distinctive meanings. One of which does NOT exclude male. From Merriam-Webster dictionary:

2.: : a domestic bovine animal regardless of sex or age

From freedictionary.com:

3. A domesticated bovine of either sex or any age.

"I'm not Hindu but I didn't get the impression that they were revered,"

"Observant Hindus, even though they might eat meat of other animals, almost always abstain from beef, and the slaughter of cows is considered a heinous sin in mainstream Orthodox Hinduism. Slaughter of cows (including oxen, bulls and calves) is forbidden by law in several states of the Indian Union"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_in_religion

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/holyco...

[John E.]

I'm sorry Chem, but those definitions are not acceptable, at least not in farm or cattle country. Just because so many people do not know the difference between a cow and a bull does not make it right, I don't care what Merriam has to say on the subject.

[will47]

Male cattle, then. I don't live in cattle country; regardless, I think it's obvious what I meant.

[joonjoon]

"The dictionary is wrong, I'm right."

[John E.]

More like, I live in farm country. I have a cattlman that harvests hundreds of bales of clover hay from my property. I know about cattle, cows, bulls, and steers. I don't care what Merriam's says about that particular term.

[soupkitten]

i agree with you. it's a bit like saying "male ewe" or "male mare" or "male woman." or, for that matter, saying "female bull," or "female ram," or "female stallion/gelding" or "female man."

the reason that using a gender-specific word to refer to the other gender (in english) sounds so stupid is because it's so incorrect, and there are gender-neutral words for all these animals/people, anyway. that said, i understood what the poster meant and i don't think it's a worse offense than someone talking about their "refined pallet" or their "discrete server" or their "dignity in tact." ;-P

[Chemicalkinetics]

There are different definition for everyone. The dictionary, in a sense, reflects what are currently being understood by others. Now, it does not mean you have to personally use or agree with the definition, but it does mean it is not a "out of the blue"definition. I personally do not use "gtg" for "got to go", but I understand some people do.

Let me use my analogy against yours. I am a scientist by training. I have a understanding of the definition of "Force" in science, much like you have a understanding of "cow" in a cattle ranch.

That being said, I also know there are other definitions of "Force" and am not going to argue against Obi-Wan Kenobi statement of "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power"

Back to the main topic, it is that Hindus have a special respect for cattle (or cow or bovine or whatever).

[John E.]

You are correct in that people use words in ways depending on their experiences. The scientific analogy you use does not quite work for me since most people are not scientifically trained. Most people have heard of cows and bulls and it should not take too much to know the difference.

Since reading one of the earlier posts on this thread I have begun to question the 'special respect' for the male cow in India. Do they really let them wander around and not feed them so they eat plastic and trash? I have seen photos of cattle (I do not know which gender) wandering the streets in India. If in fact they are simply wandering around, to be certain not going to slaughter, but not being well-cared for either, then I don't consider that 'special respect'. If I actually had more interest in the subject I'd do some research on the topic, but I do not.

(If Obi-Wan referred to a bull as a male cow I would find it necessary to correct him, despite the powers of the force).

[Chemicalkinetics]

"Most people have heard of cows and bulls and it should not take too much to know the difference."

That is the point, a segment of people do not use the same definition, so in their definition, the difference is different from yours.

"Do they really let them wander around and not feed them so they eat plastic and trash?"

I didn't say that.

"then I don't consider that 'special respect'"

I am actually not a Hindi, so I will not try too hard to debate, but I think the important thing is that they do not entertain the idea of eating cattle.

"If Obi-Wan referred to a bull as a male cow I would find it necessary to correct him, despite the powers of the force"

That's what you say now. :P

[soupkitten]

while we are parsing terms, hindu is wrt: the major world religion, hindi is wrt: the major world language. incidentally hindi and urdu are essentially the same spoken language, just written differently depending on whether one is muslim, or not. in an effort to keep this food related, muslim butchers do most of the butchering of cattle in india. there are also many christian indians, mostly in southern india, many of whom will eat beef.

hindi is not the plural form of hindu, etc.

[John E.]

The next time I see our cattleman up north I will ask him when he next going to butcher a castrated male heifer.

[montrealeater]

John E - I mentioned the doc I watched about the vet who went around India doing surgery on bovines to remove the plastic from their stomachs and look what popped up 9hrs ago on a site I sometimes visit: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b91_13... (this is a clip from the doc - some will find it gross, but it has a happy ending - incidentally, this vet is also part of a campaign to get Indians in some areas to throw plastic waste in garbage containers, because the fact that they don't is one reason so many cows are in such bad shape). Also, the cow is locally anaethetised in this clip, they just edited that part out.

Re: the term 'cow' - I grew up around cattle country and I know you would get laughed out of town for calling a male bovine a 'cow', but we do have to defer to the dictionary on the *technical* definition, no?

[John E.]

It doesn't come up often enough for me to need to accept calling a bull or a steer a cow. If it came up in daily conversation I'd either need to accept it or quietly go nuts.

[racer x]

Maybe for people in the business of bovine husbandry, distinguishing between male and female with every sentence makes sense, since an animal's gender has huge implications for how much the animal costs and to what uses it can be put.

But for everyone else, this rigid adherence to making that distinction seems rather silly. Put a slab of Bos primigenius steak off the grill in front a group of chowhounds, and I have no doubt that none of them would be able to tell whether it came from a cow or a bull.

In your world, what is the common gender-neutral word for this animal?
Is there any other animal (including Homo sapiens) for which there is no gender-neutral word? That ought to tell you something.

[thew]

not stupider - as far as I'm concerned - but more lacking of self awareness

[porker]

"I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy, but they're definitely dirty. But, a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way." - Jules, Pulp Fiction

[crowmuncher]

better a Royale with Cheese for Jules ;)

[babette feasts]

Well if you are what you eat, shouldn't you eat smart things?

; )

[cgarner]

Pigs are way smarter than dogs but no one cares that we slaughter them by the truckload.

Pigs are scary smart! I had a friend years ago who raised pigs... they're smart, and they can be really mean too
(it's okay to eat smart animals if they're mean... and they taste good)
;-) <--- notice the 'wink' before anyone gets enraged by that statement

[sunshine842]

In the mean-animal category, pigs earn a star next to their name.

hard to believe that anything as sweet and cuddly as a baby pig can turn into something as foul-tempered and ornery as a grown-up hog.

[Veggo]

I have friends who share the same sentiment about their ex-spouses.

[sunshine842]

LOL. True, that.

[porker]

Guy pulls up to a farm and is greeted by a 3 legged pig. He asks the farmer what happened to the pig. Farmer says there was a fire in the house awhile back, pig came in, woke everyone up and saved the family.
"Thats how he lost a leg?"
"No."
"Well howd he lose it?"
"I tell ya, a pig that good, you don't eat all at once!"

[mariacarmen]

i LOVE that joke. my dad told it to me years ago, almost with tears in his eyes, in sympathy for the pig (and my dad's a carnivore.)

[thew]

absolutely.

i sought it out in the phillipnes, but did not end up finding it.

reminds me of Latka's mother on taxi - "you can't move to America, they EAT chickens and keep DOGS for pets!!!"

[woodleyparkhound]

I'm not starving, so no, I wouldn't want to try it. If I were literally starving and if it were the only food around - sure, I definitely would.

[beevod]

Free range?

[kpaxonite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range

[klyeoh]

I had dog, in Seoul, a few years back. An English colleague who was with me also had some. We understood that the dogmeat which we ate came from a breed of dogs called "Hwang-gu" or "yellow-furred dog" which were specially bred to be eaten.

The meat came in raw fillets, to be barbecued on table-top braziers, then dipped into "kochujang" (chilli-red bean paste) then wrapped in sesame leaves before being eaten. On the side, we were served "poshintang", a spicy kimchi-flavored dog-rib soup.

Would you believe it - the set dinner we ordered was meant for 4 persons, but our 2 Korean colleagues who brought us there didn't touch the dog-meat at all (they said they'd never eaten any in their lives!), but instead ordered "samgyetang" (chicken-and-ginseng soup) for themselves!

In fact, we were the ones who'd ASKED to be brought to a restaurant which served dog - in order to satisfy our curiousity - and our Korean colleagues couldn't find anyone amongst the 350 staff who'd eaten dog to bring us to one! So much for our stereotyped view of dogmeat-loving Koreans!

Both my English colleague and I thought the dogmeat we had tasted like chicken dark meat. Nothing disagreeable about the taste or texture - but we both could only eat 3-4 mouthful at the most, mainly because we felt queasy about the fact that we're eating dog!

[Querencia]

Klyeoh, I once read a book about a tribe of cannibals on some South Seas island. It said that human flesh tastes like pork and was locally called "long pig". Just a thought for you to hold.

[Veggo]

There are probably some pigs who would like rebuttal time.

[Pata_Negra]

"Im not talking about your housepet...dogs raised on a farm or facility specifically for the purpose of being slaughtered to be eaten.

I never have...but if I was in Korea or somewhere it was on the menu I would definitely try it."

yes, i would, according to the way you put it. why would it be different from eating intensively reared pork/chicken etc?

i saw (from my bus window) many dog and cat restaurants in northern Vietnam. really a lot of dog and cat restaurants i've ever seen on one street. the most gut wrenching sights however are all in (usually small towns) China. i did want to try but my companion was distraught to the point of tears i had to forgo my dog dindin. i once posted butchered dog photos on some photo storage sites but they deleted them.

do try it if you see it!

[westsidegal]

<<why would it be different from eating intensively reared pork/chicken etc?>>

that's one of the many reasons i DON'T eat intensively reared port/chicken etc.

[mpjmph]

I wouldn't eat my dog, or your dog, but I would eat meat from dogs raised as livestock. To me it is no different the my relationship with chickens and goats. I had pet chickens and a pet goat growing up (the goat was actually very dog-like). I never would have eaten my pets, but had no problem eating chicken from the grocery store, and had goat meat been readily available in our community I would have eaten that as well.

[wincountrygirl]

No

[ultimatepotato]

I don't think I would order dog intentionally. But if it was served to me, I think it would be respectful to try it. I have no moral code against it, any more than I have an objection to eating any other ethically raised animal, or wild animal hunted for the purposes of food. I just don't feel any curiosity to try it. Horse on the other hand is something I'm curious to try.

[ediblover]

I guess this is more than just theoretical for me. Many years ago I found myself in a situation where dog meat was served. I wasn't grossed out or anything, but I just couldn't bring myself to take a bowl. If memory serves, I think I actually avoided eating anything there, just to make certain I didn't consume the dog.

If I was in the same situation now, I like to think that I would take at least a bite. Viewpoints change. Back then I thought of the whole thing as something of a betrayal (of a friend of man); it just seemed wrong to slaughter and eat a creature that's been by our side. I still go with that, but I place the respect of traditions and just plain survival higher. Also, the reality of how we develop our beliefs and whether or not they're actually ours got me as I grew older.

So, pass the dog. Mind as well serve the horse too.

[crowmuncher]

no. if i start eating dog one of these days i might as well eat humans too...

[kpaxonite]

well that certainly shows how you feel about humans...

[crowmuncher]

i would says it shows how i feel about dogs more than about humans...it means that i consider dogs family and if i were to eat one of them, well i might as well eat humans too. If it's a question of morality, it would be just as bad for me

[Duppie]

I consider animals to be animals not family,friends or soul mates and am actually quite curious as to the taste and texture of dog meat. I've enjoyed horse in Canada and whale in Scandinavia and god knows what in Latin America.

[crowmuncher]

aren't we animals?

[Duppie]

...some more than others...

[crowmuncher]

does seem that way...

[Duppie]

Indeed...

[KaimukiMan]

pretty sure i did. i lived in Korea, friends took me to a restaurant and wouldn't tell me what we were eating. i know it was mammal, i know it wasn't beef, lamb, or pork. i doubt it was rabbit, which i have had before, and it was too big to be rat. i would not go out of my way to find it or eat it, but it wasn't bad, and if i was served it again i would not refuse it.

I have friends who won't eat lamb, duck, or rabbit because they won't eat 'cute' creatures. wonder how that makes baby calves, piglets, and ducklings feel.

[dhmill]

My wife won't eat rabbit,duck,goose,lamb,beef veal, piglet, or anything that once lived in,on,or near water. So no frog legs for me nor duck or goose. I can go deer hunting but if I should happen to get one I'm not allowed to bring it home.

Yes, we do have pretty limited menu.

[John E.]

What does she have against chickens and turkeys?

[dhmill]

Nothing that I know of. She just these ideas about what she eats. She also cooks beef so well done that it's barely edible. In fact she doesn't really like it either and only eats a few bites and then passes it to me. But I don't eat it. I simply pass it on to my dogs.

[sunshine842]

I don't see myself going in and ordering it.

But if I were at some sort of social function where it was served, I'd most likely go ahead and eat it.

That's how I came to try horse -- I was at a dinner function, the pate was brought out, and I noticed it had a flavor I didn't recognize. Someone else asked what it was, and sure enough, it was horse. I finished it to be polite, but I genuinely didn't care for it -- which I'd decided before I knew what it was. Finding out it was horse just underlined my decision not to eat it again.

[nvcook]

I was in Paris in 1978 and my friend and I ordered steak. The steak tasted off to us and we discovered it was horse. Would not order it intentionally again, but, if extremely hungry, yes.

[porker]

Just FYI, all major grocery stores in the Montreal area have horse alongside the pork/beef/chicken in the meat aisle.

[Passadumkeg]

When living in downeast Maine, we make trips to Quebec City w/ one of the objectives to have a good horse meal.

[TheHuntress]

I could not knowingly eat dog - yes, it's a cultural thing as dogs, to me, are part of my family. I certainly understand the difference between a pet and something raised specifically to be eaten, but it's just a cultural taboo in my mind. There's just too much human personality and loveliness in dogs for me to want to eat them.

[schrutefarms]

OMG NO!!!!! I have two pups and would never order dog off a menu!!! That being said, though, if there was some crazy nuclear war I'd be the first to throw my Frenchie on a spit.