Any good Asian in the Mission?

[MarkC]

I've changed our hotel, so we're staying in the mission district, which I'm happy about. One thing I don't seem to find are any good Asian restaurants. Any suggestions for the Mission or surrounding area?

[Windy]

Generally not. (See separate discussion of whether Mission Chinese Food qualifies as good or Chinese. I say not.)

Good options:
Yamo (dive-y Burmese)
Minako (organic Japanese)

Outer Mission so south of Cesar Chavez:
Ichi (sushi)
Angkor Borei (Cambodian)
Henry's Hunan (Chinese)

Keep in mind you're close to the Tenderloin (Bodega Bistro, Pagolac, Lers Ros, Thai House Express, Burmese Kitchen).

Aside from Henry's, I'd recommend avoiding any "Asian" restaurants in Noe Valley or the Castro. They are all extremely Americanized and mediocre or worse.

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Thai House Express
901 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94109

Pagolac
655 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94109

Yamo
3406 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[bigwheel042]

The Thai House Express on Castro was ok, at least as of a couple years ago. Not as good as the Geary location, but ok.

Eiji has a few good dishes like the homemade tofu though there are better choices for sushi.

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Thai House Express
901 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94109

[Windy]

You're right. I go to that Thai House Express when I'm going to a movie at the Castro too.

And that tofu at Eiji is good (and cool! to have warm tofu made to order).

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Thai House Express
901 Larkin St, San Francisco, CA 94109

[scarmoza]

South of Cesar Chavez is not Outer Mission. Outer Mission is south of Geneva Avenue.

[klyeoh]

Sorry, but honestly, I don't think there're any Asian eateries in the Mission worth recommending!

[osho]

The recommendations above in the Tenderloin are spot on.

[Robert Lauriston]

Angkor Borei (Cambodian) is great. That's the only destination Asian place in the Mission I can think of.

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Angkor-Borei Restaurant
3471 Mission St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[farmersdaughter]

I am one of the people who really likes Mission Chinese Food. It's worth a try to see if you are going to be a supporter or a detractor. It's quite polarizing on the board.

Other than that, I do like ICHI for sushi and Minako, but agree there is not much else around and the Tenderloin is your best bet.

If Lotus Garden ever opens up again, I would send you there in a heartbeat. Terrific Vietnamese food. They had damage from a fire in their building in April and haven't re-opened yet.

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Lotus Garden
3216 Mission St, San Francisco, CA 94110

Mission Chinese Food
2234 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

[MarkC]

I wasn't planning to go to Mission Chinese, but now I'm intrigued by the religious war that is swirling around it. Detractors like Hong Kong Foodie don't argue authenticity, but rather what could be called universal values - overcooked, undercooked, heavy, flavorless, etc. However, my feeling is that these judgments are also subjective, and that people who have grown up on a certain style of cooking detect things that others don't. You see this with foreign languages. I studied a little Arabic, where they have two different pronunciations for the letters D and T, and for the life of me I can't hear the difference. Similarly, in English, there is a clear distinction between the words "waiter" and "wetter" and we would never confuse between the two, whereas if you spoke a language without diphthongs, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference (Inspector Clousseau: "That's what I said, you idiot"). So it may be also with whether the rice is fluffy, sufficiently flavorful, etc.

[Windy]

Speaking personally, it makes me angry that a trendy faux Chinese restaurant gets so much press from white reviewers who don't know much about Chinese food. And as a result, tourists like you with limited numbers of meals go to a place the NY TImes decides is representative of San Francisco. It's very distorted.

For years, the SF Chronicle seemed to know about exactly one taqueria in the city; today they also know about a few in the Marina (the least Latino neighborhood in town).

Meanwhile better and more authentic restaurants struggle to survive, and eventually dumb down their menus to attract the very white guy reviewers who made Mission Chinese a success. It's a downhill path that leads to the mediocre but upscale Thai food available all over San Francisco, or to maple bacon lattes, because they attract Anthony Bourdain and his bunch of Rambo boy food tours for TV.

Slanted Door is similar. It's a very very profitable restaurant for white people who think they've "discovered" Vietnamese food, despite the fact that the city (and much of the country) is filled with better, much cheaper Vietnamese restaurants. Yes, it's in a pretty location, but it also started out in the Mission. Charles Phan at least tried to innovate based on knowing something about Vietnamese food and employing family members.

The notion that controversy or that a place is polarizing means it's good is about as true as what's going on in Washington being a "compromise" or "bi-partisan." House of Nanking has a line too. That doesn't make the food there any better.

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Slanted Door
Ferry Slip, San Francisco, CA 94111

House of Nanking
919 Kearny St, San Francisco, CA 94133

[klyeoh]

Re: Slanted Door. I share your sentiments 100%. I first tried SD after visiting Vietnam and realised that SD's food was nowhere near the standards of those I had in ANY restaurant, cafe or streetside stall in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City/Saigon.

[mdg]

If Chinese restaurants want business from non-Chinese, it would behoove them to have menus that non-Chinese can read, and not serve people different menus based on their ethnicity. Many Chinese restaurants in the Bay Area make it clear that they don't want white customers, and I for one get the message.

Michael

[vulber]

part of the appeal of mission chinese food is that it's pretty much the only place one can get really spicy food in the mission besides dosa

[Melanie Wong]

We've been down this road before. From talking to Chinese restaurateurs in Walnut Creek and Palo Alto who do not translate the authentic dishes on their menus into English when the majority of their customers seem to be pale-faced suburbanites, they both had the same response to me. The problem lies with those customers. Unfortunately, the non-Chinese customers who ordered authentic dishes didn't like them and sent them back. Money lost. Unhappy customers. So, the owners resort to racial profiling and keep those dishes under wraps and if someone asks about them, they try to talk them out of ordering them. If it makes you feel any better, I've had a Sichuan waiter look at my Cantonese face and say that what I wanted would be too spicy for me, likewise a Shanghai guy said I wouldn't like his fatty pork dishes.

[jman1]

Yeah, suppose so. However, I can't think of any restaurants in SF or the south bay that I've visited in recent years which had a Chinese language only menu. Even in places that have multiple menus, there is usually English on both and most seem to provide both as a matter of course (or when asked). Only exception is some of the banquet menus or hand written specials.

Maybe I'm missing things, but the practice described seems to have been more common in the past than today.

At the time, I recall learning that some restaurants make the same dish differently depending on who orders it. Is that still the case? It was described that ethnicity is sometimes noted by the waiter.

[mdg]

Most Chinese restaurants in Silicon Valley have at the very least a Chinese-only specials list on the tables or walls. The Chinese language menus I've seen tend to be Chinese only. It doesn't matter if they offer it to you when they know you can't read it. At least one Silicon Valley Chinese restaurant goes so far as to segregate whites into a separate less desirable section of the restaurant. We walked out at that point.

I have no problem being steered away from dishes by waiters, no matter what the cuisine. The larger the menu the more valuable that service is! The solution to avoiding returns and unhappy customers is to describe the dishes accurately and train the servers, not to refuse service based on skin color.

It seems pretty obvious why restaurants that want non-Chinese business get more English-language media attention than those that don't.

Michael

[MarkC]

Windy

If I were to go to just one Chinese restaurant on my trip, which should it be (providing it's spicy)?

[Robert Lauriston]

If you want spicy Chinese food in SF, Z&Y (Sichuan) or Henry's Hunan.

[mariacarmen]

2nd z&y. for me, henry's dishes all end up tasting a lot alike each other. tho that doesn't deter us from going at least once a year.

[Robert Lauriston]

Henry's hot and sour beef and smoked ham taste very different from each other.

[farmersdaughter]

To me the question about Mission Chinese Food (and Slanted Door) is not authenticity. I'm not expecting authenticity, and neither MCF nor SD bill themselves as authentic. In fact MCF in particular calls itself "Americanized Oriental Food" (do a Google search). To me the question is does the food taste good or not? I think the food at MCF tastes good. And I think the food at SD is good too. I know where to go in SF for Vietnamese food that's closer to authentic than SD. I go to those restaurants too. But the food at SD (and MCF) tastes good, is well prepared and uses quality ingredients. So, I like it.

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Slanted Door
Ferry Slip, San Francisco, CA 94111

Mission Chinese Food
2234 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

[bbulkow]

Regarding dipthongs, baby studies have shown that most - but not all - humans lose the ability to discriminate between phonemes by a certain age if they have not been exposed to the distinction. For example, I can't hear the distinction between mid-sh and hard-sh and soft-sh. mid-sh is in slavics, and in-board with babies, but drops out.

With food, on the other hand, there appears to be no similar phonemic "firmware", so whatever HKF is referring to is probably his own opinion.

[david kaplan]

Seconding Mission Chinese Food, Angkor Borei, Eiji, and Minako. I'm mixed on Yamo. Sunflower for Vietnamese, 16th & Valencia, is passable. Osha Thai has one item that I really like -- the Osha Tom Yum noodle soup extra spicy -- and that alone makes it kind of a destination for me, though I haven't had anything else memorable there.

You might luck out and be in the Mission on a Saturday when the Off the Grid food trucks come to McCoppin and include a good Asian option, like Senor Sisig (Filipino).

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Yamo
3406 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

Osha Thai
819 Valencia St, San Francisco, CA 94110

Mission Chinese Food
2234 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

Off the Grid
Fort Mason Center, San Francisco, CA 94123

Senor Sisig
San Mateo, San Mateo, CA

[jman1]

As others have mentioned, it's not an area generally known for those cuisines. It's also a relatively large neighborhood; especially since you are including the surrounding area (and some of the recommendations are outside the Mission). I'll add my two cents.

If you don't have regular access to regional Chinese food, you might consider Beijing Restaurant on Alemany. It's outside the hip part of the Mission and I therefore suspect that it's not close to where you are staying. Not a stylish place, but good food. Staffed by young, friendly Chinese who can help navigate the menu. Plastered with photographs of guest; including more than a few of Yao Ming.

Of the Japanese places mentioned, I'd second Eiji (near the Mission, toward the Castro). I did visit Minako (in the Mission) a number of times (early 00's) and found it interested, but in the end stopped returning. Minako has a strong following, but I didn't care for the homey ambiance and perhaps the home style of cooking even though they were very accommodating (including offering to cook off-menu items if one arranges in advance). Tried Ichi at their previous take-out only location which was good and expensive for take-out; haven't been to the restaurant. Eiji specializes in tofu and sushi, but also offers other small plates. Tofu offerings are good and might be fun and different for your family; other options are generally good and authentic. Small but with tables; generally set up to be more Western friendly in terms of ambiance. As a local, I wish their menu would change a bit more over time. If you go, I recommend ordering one or two mochi wrapped strawberries (strawberry daifuku) desert (order in advance as they disappear). Your teenage daughter may especially appreciate that; I was told by a college age Japanese girl that it's the sort of thing that she and her friends would order back home.

I'll reiterate that Yamo is pretty much a dive / greasy spoon. I didn't find it a pleasant environment and the food I tried was greasy Chinese. It has a following, but is not for everyone. I think that it's counter service only (no tables).

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Yamo
3406 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[Robert Lauriston]

Yamo is a dive / Burmese greasy spoon / hole in the wall. There's no room for tables, only half a dozen seats at the counter. But some of the food's pretty good, especially for the absurdly low price. Thread on what to order there:

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/377831

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Yamo
3406 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[possumspice]

Mission is definitely an asian food wasteland, and I won't be able to add anything that anyone else here hasn't already pointed out. I will second Eiji (especially the tofu), Yamo (house noodles, mango salad), Minako, and Mission Chinese Food (though it's not what anyone would call authentic).

Dosa and Udupi Palace are both good for Indian food.

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Yamo
3406 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

Mission Chinese Food
2234 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94110

[Windy]

always forgetting about South Asian.

Arguably we could include Mi Lindo Peru and Inka's since the chefs are ethnic Japanese and Chinese (and the Peruvian food reflects that somewhat).

Love Udupi's dosas. They've added free delivery but I can't imagine a dosa surviving too well in a steamy box. Great option for the vegetarian daughter.

[Robert Lauriston]

Oh yeah, Peruvian. Lomo saltado is basically Chinese stir-fry with french fries. Tiraditos is a Peruvian twist on sashimi, but I'm not sure either of those places serve it.

[Windy]

They both have good Peruvian ceviche. Piqueo's (just over the hill) has tiraditos.

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Piqueo's
830 Cortland Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94110

[Robert Lauriston]

There's nothing Asian about cebiche, Peruvians had been making it for centuries before the first Japanese immigrants showed up. Tiraditos is a relatively recent invention, dates back maybe to the 1980s.

[grayelf]

FWIW I recall a very nice shrimp fried rice (chaufa) and a fish soup reminiscent of South East Asian ones (pescado sudado) at a Nov 2009 Chowdown at Inka's.

[the mess]

Ken Ken Ramen is a Japanese ramen pop-up that I think does a great job. You can find them on Thursdays and Sundays at The Corner (Mission @ 18th), which is a restaurant space used exclusively for pop-ups.

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Ken Ken Ramen
3378 18th St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[Windy]

Mission & 18th.

[the mess]

woops, thanks.

[vulber]

tokyo go go is also good for sushi, pakwan is good for cheap indian food

[david kaplan]

And, actually, Another Monkey on Valencia near 14th -- in the old Conduit space -- has some good dishes, including the chili pastes that come with raw vegetables and fried pork skin for dipping. I'd only seen those at Lotus of Siam in Vegas before trying them at Another Monkey.

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Another Monkey
280 Valencia St, San Francisco, CA

[jason carey]

What does surrounding area mean?

[MarkC]

What a wonderful cornocopia of information this website is! Thanks everyone, I'll try and absorb all of this. It seems I'm just going to have to move to San Francisco.

I also had never heard of this idea of a "pop-up" before. I assume it's like a time share for food entrepreneurs. Are there many of these in SF? Can one find out the various schedules and locations? Shows that San Francisco is not just at the forefront of food preparation, but also delivery.

[jman1]

Good pop-up question. I don't have the answer. Many of the individual ones Tweet and folks follow what they like. In addition to pop-ups, there are more hidden venues run out of peoples homes, etc.

One source of news (like openings and closings) is Eater:

http://sf.eater.com/

I suspect that someone else will have more info.

[Robert Lauriston]

The blogs all pick up each other's items, so if you follow one (Eater, SFoodie, Inside Scoop) you'll hear about everything.

[Windy]

Yes, popups are an economic phenomenon, although you wouldn't know that to see LudoBites in LA.

In an area filled with recently minted chefs, who have loans to pay back and don't want to be prep chefs at fancy restaurants for the rest of their lives, there's been an explosion of trucks and popups. Five or ten years ago, they'd have been caterers (and many popups are caterers too).

It's also a good deal for the restaurants that are closed for lunch or on Mondays to earn a little extra rent. They have real kitchens the chefs can use and often liquor licenses (so Wise Sons can offer more with its popup at Beast and the Hare).

Mission Chinese and Commowealth started out as Mission Street Food, which made use of an underused restaurant on the night it was closed to let local chefs have fun one night a week. The food was often great.

Mostly though, it's a way to get your reputation out before making the much more expensive commitment to opening a restaurant. Quality and especially service varies. But that's where a lot of the creativity is in this town.

There's also a big home-cooking/DIY scene, with groups like the SF Underground Market (currently on hold because of permit issues).

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Beast and the Hare
1001 Guerrero St, San Francisco, CA 94110

[Keesey]

Here are some information about a few pop-ups I've read from the SF food blogs. I haven't delved into this food trend yet so I can't offer any recommondations. From what I understand, the concept is a part-time restaurant with a limited menu. Usually coming from cooks who, for some reason of their own, do not have their own full-time permanent restaurant space (I'm guessing cost and time is the main reason).

http://thecornersf.com/
A rotation of chefs offering varied cuisines.

http://www.ricepaperscissors.com/
A collaboration of two Vietnamese and Chinese amateur cooks who used to host underground events with varied Vietnamese street food. Now they've found a regular venue every Thurs nights and serve a limited menu. Their initial pop-up seemed more exciting with a very underground venue.

https://www.facebook.com/JuhuBeachClu...
Indian pop-up from a former Top Chef contestant.

For more rogue operations, there are several other food carts who partner up with bars to serve their specialties. BBQ sandwiches, chili, fried stuff... basically feeding the drunk crowd.

[jman1]

Had just read about Juhu Beach Club yesterday and am planning to go for lunch. I didn't know it was a popup. Seems to have regular week day lunch hours. Is it in the space of another restaurant that does dinner only? Oh yeah, I see (the Garage).

Popups sound a lot more appealing than the current 20-something trend toward food trucks. I'm out of grad school, thank you. And, I don't work at the plant. ;-)

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Juhu Beach Club
, San Francisco, CA

[bbulkow]

If you'd like to eat like a local, I'd suggest understanding the draw of the truck.

Let's take SenorSisig:
http://www.senorsisig.com/
Fusion Filipino Tacos? You bet -- but cutting edge gets old, so it's only in your neighborhood one day a week! Perfect!

Also similar to a pop-up is an established chef working out a new menu. There was a recent case where someone was cooking at another restaurant 4 nights with their new menu, tuning it, before getting investors together. Just like when you walk into a music club and the band is playing an album they've just written and no audience has heard. Not always flawless, but often a great energy and good fun.

Ditto the trucks, so don't scoff.

[Robert Lauriston]

Couple more:

http://radioafricakitchen.com/
http://www.wisesonsdeli.com/

[moto]

if you consider South Indian in your Asian food category, we had a pretty good meal at Dosa on Valencia last night. Much more expensive than San Mateo or Santa Clara county places that serve the same regional foods, but average for an SF mid price place with decent comfort and good service. Overall, fresher ingredients and prep than most of its cheaper counterparts too, so we didn't mind the extra tariff .

[MarkC]

Anyone try Tao Cafe, a Vietnamese place in the Mission? Gets good reviews on Yelp.

[jman1]

Neighborhood restaurant with funky Western comfortable ambiance. They claim Vietnamese and French cooking and I guess that's fairly accurate.

They do a reasonable job at tasty food. Not a trendy place; not a place looking to innovate very much. They moved into a space once the location of a famous restaurant and it wasn't long after Slanted Door had moved out of the area, so perhaps they were hoping to pick up some of their business, but I doubt it. Also, not a place that caters to the Vietnamese community. I did have the impression that the chef had talent and the service is friendly.

I haven't been in 4 years, so perhaps someone with more recent experience can comment.

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Slanted Door
Ferry Slip, San Francisco, CA 94111