One of the most fool-proof methods of pie crust making

[roxlet]

This is so interesting and sounds really easy. The article is by the guy who developed the famous Cook's Illustrated vodka pie crust recipe. I'm going to try this today.

http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2011/07...

[HillJ]

http://www.dietrichsmeats.com/freshla...
..and don't skip the link to really good quality lard..well worth the purchase.

[roxlet]

I just mixed up my first batch of pie crust using this method. Note to the files -- this method seems to need VERY little water. I may have added too much -- and it was only 5 tablespoons!

[roxlet]

It occurs to me that, although the recipe says to use a spatula when adding the water, using my hands would have given me a more accurate read on the dough...

[chowser]

If your hands are cold enough, give it a try! In the winter, my hands would be perfect.

[roxlet]

My report on this pie crust is that it is a bit more delicate than I would have liked. First of all, part of the problem might have been adding too much water, but I found that, unlike my usual butter/shortening crust, it started to fall apart when I put it in the pie plate. It was hot in my kitchen -- this being the summer-- but I had to do some patching to get it to hold together. I put it in the freezer before blind baking, and it did brown a bit more that I would have liked. We'll see how it tastes tonight when we have the pie for dessert.

[buttertart]

And how was it? I made pastry but used the vodka recipe which I have in "More Best Recipes"- I was afraid to get on the computer Saturday morning since once I'm on I'm riveted to this and to another site that shall remain nameless (oh well, it's FB).

[roxlet]

It was fine, but I think it was negatively affected by too much water, as I mentioned. I also usually use a combo of shortening and butter. My husband thought it was good, but gave me a backhanded compliment by saying, about my usual piecrust, "Why mess with perfection?"

[buttertart]

A sage man, your DH. You obviously have the knack.

[roxlet]

I went back to my usual pie crust yesterday, and the report from the family is that they prefer my usual one!

[biondanonima]

Roxlet, what is your usual recipe? Or is it a family secret? :)

[buttertart]

It's absolutely great to have this method (and what a relief the original CI recipe was, I had never been happy with my pastry before it) but I wish I had paid more attention to my mom when she was making hers - and inherited her cool hands - her crusts (totally made by hand) were as flaky or flakier than these (for the Canadians among us, she used the Tenderflake lard box recipe). For the rest of us, http://www.food.com/recipe/tenderflak...
Hmm, just had a look-see, seems this is non-hydrogenated lard, unlike the Armour stuff here. Maybe that's the ticket!

[walker]

Is it possible to buy tenderflake lard in or near San Francisco? Could I use Spectrum shortening (from WF) instead?

[buttertart]

You can order it on line (I have never done this, and summer would not be the time to do it, of course). The results will not be the same with shortening, but you could try Armour brand - I often use it.
http://www.canadianfavourites.com/Sea... (shipping costs are high, and I wonder how Customs is handled).

[walker]

A friend gave me a box of fantastic apricots from his tree and I've been wanting to make Ruth Reichl's Apricot Pie .. has anyone tried this? It says to make pie dough, roll out and place in freezer 15 min. Preheat oven to 400. Filling is apricots, butter, sugar, flour, nutmeg. No top. Then baking on bottom rack, after 10 min, turn down over to 350.

So, no blind baking. Should I just follow the recipe the first time and see how it comes out? I'll probably use Pyrex glass pie pan. (Since that's what I already have.)

[roxlet]

I never blind bake a crust unless it is for something like a lemon meringue pie where the filling doesn't get baked. I use a pyrex pie plate and it always comes out very well -- no soggy bottom crusts.

[walker]

The more I read about crusts, the more uncertain I am of what recipe to use.

I tried the vodka recipe before, rolled out like a dream but slid down while baking -- a real mess. I now am armed with real pie weights and edge shields.

[Snorkelvik]

that's what happened to me when I tried the vodka pie crust. It was made in a warm kitchen & I might not have worked the dough enough.

[biondanonima]

Refrigerating or freezing the pie shell after it has been placed in the pan should eliminate that problem. I usually do 30 mins in the fridge or 15 in the freezer (which I prefer if I have space), and I never have slumping issues.

[walker]

Well, with too many pie dough recipes to choose from, I decided to give picawika's a try -- it's all butter, done in food processor. For the very FIRST time, it was not frustrating .. it worked!! It was also the first try on the apricot pie recipe and I thought it was great. It did take about 15 minutes longer than recipe stated; I have an oven thermometer and followed recipe EXACTLY.

Between Chowhound and Food Network, I'm becoming a much better home cook.

[chowser]

The pictures are all telling. The crust is beautiful. I would love to see a video on the mixing in the water w/ a spatula.

[roxlet]

That's always the trickiest part, in my opinion.

[Delucacheesemonger]

Agreed, l have added my water by the drop in the processor, and l thought worked fine. Will try new method next time.

[buttertart]

Great article, roxlet, how did it work for you?

[roxlet]

His junior majesty requested a carrot cake today, so I didn't get to it. Tomorrow, for sure. I'm dying to try this method. Only thing is, I usually use half butt half shortening...

[buttertart]

It's your life and you should do what you want. Do what you like, but please don't keep-a it waiting!!!

[roxlet]

Kinky!

[buttertart]

:)

[Isolda]

I'm going to have to try this. It is much cheaper than the vodka version. I nearly went through an entire bottle on pie crust alone because no one actually drinks vodka here.

[jeanmarieok]

I have the same problem! LOL!

[buttertart]

They subsequently said other 80 proof liquors work.

[Isolda]

But aren't they all expensive? And don't other liquors leave a discernible taste? I'm willing to try with other liquors we don't drink, but I don't think I'd like a scotch-flavored pie crust.

Then again, maybe I would....

[buttertart]

They said the flavor isn't apparent in the baked product. I haven't tried it because other booze is more expensive than most vodka and other booze is far more likely to get drunk up un our house.

[blue room]

Wow, worthwhile article. I even have one of those tapered rolling pins - never used!
Thanks so much.

[biondanonima]

This is basically the vodka pie crust recipe, just without the vodka. Method is the same - and it's BRILLANT! Good to know that it works well without vodka too, just in case one doesn't happen to have any vodka in the house. Ditto on the butter/shortening conundrum.

[ferret]

There are people who don't have vodka in the house?

[biondanonima]

Only if I accidentally drink it all... :)

[Kelli2006]

I don't have vodka in the house. I do have a few spirits that are commonly used for baking(rum, bourbon, schnapps, Kirsch, etc) and inexpensive wine for cooking but I don't ever remember having vodka.

I make pie crusts with either white vinegar or apple jack.

[Antilope]

I usually make pie crust in a food processor or make an oil pie crust. But now I'll be using this method.

If I read it correctly, these are the ingredients and amounts:

Single crust:

6.25 ounces flour (2/3 - 4.15 ounces & 1/3 - 2.10 ounces)
1 tablespoon sugar
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 1/4 sticks (10 tbsp) butter, cut into pats
3 tablespoons of cold water

Double crust:

12.5 ounces flour (2/3 - 8.3 ounces & 1/3 - 4.2 ounces)
2 tablespoons sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 1/2 sticks (20 tbsp) butter, cut into pats
6 tablespoons of cold water

[roxlet]

Well, as I said, add the water carefully as mine was over-hydrated with 5 tablespoons!

[Antilope]

Here's my take on the article about the easy food processor pie crust.
Let me know if you see any errors:

Perfect Food Processor Flaky Pie Crust

---------------------------------------

Single Crust Pie

6.25 ounces (1 1/3 cups) all-purpose flour - divided use
1 tablespoon white granulated sugar
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt (or 1/4 teaspoon table salt)
1 1/4 sticks (10 tablespoons - 5 oz) cold, unsalted butter, cut into 1/4-inch pats
3 tablespoons cold water

---------------------------------------

Double Crust Pie

12.5 ounces (2 2/3 cups) all-purpose flour - divided use
2 tablespoons white granulated sugar
1 teaspoon kosher salt (or 1/2 teaspoon table salt)
2 1/2 sticks (20 tablespoons - 10 oz) cold, unsalted butter, cut into 1/4-inch pats
6 tablespoons cold water

---------------------------------------

1. If you have a scale, weigh out the flour, it's much more accurate than volume measuring.

If you don't have a scale, measure out the flour by sprinkling it slowly into a measuring cup from scoop or from another cup. Using this method should help to ensure the volume of flour is close to the correct weight.

- 1 1/3 cups should weigh close to 6.25 oz.
- 2 2/3 cups should weigh close to 12.5 oz.

2. Combine two-thirds of the flour:

- single crust pie - 4.1 ounces (3/4 cup plus 2 tablespoons of flour)
- double crust pie - 8.2 ounces (1 3/4 cups of flour)

...along with the sugar and salt in a food processor.
Pulse the food processor a couple of times to mix those dry ingredients.

3. Spread the pats of butter evenly over the flour mixture in the food processor. Pulse the food processor until the flour is no longer dry and dough begins to collect in clumps.
It should take about 25 pulses.

4. Use a rubber spatula to spread the dough evenly around the bottom of the food processor bowl.

Sprinkle the remaining one-third of the flour:

- single crust pie - 2.15 ounces (1/3 cup plus 2 tablespoons)
- double crust pie - 4.3 ounces (3/4 cup plus 3 tablespoons)

...evenly over the dough. Pulse the food processor just enough to mix in dry flour and barely break up the dough.
About 5 pulses.

5. Use a rubber spatula to move the dough to a mixing bowl.

6. Sprinkle all of the cold water evenly over the dough. Use the rubber spatula to press and fold the dough until it comes together into a ball.

Make sure to use all of the cold water. All of the water is necessary to form a flaky crust.

The dough may seem somewhat wet. That's okay. The dough will be chilled before rolling out. Chilling makes the dough easier to work with.

--For a single crust pie:

Form dough into a 4-inch disk and wrap it tightly in plastic wrap.

--For a double crust pie:

Divide the dough in half. Form dough into two 4-inch disks and wrap them tightly in plastic wrap.

Place wrapped dough in fridge at least 2-hours before rolling out.

After at least 2-hours of chilling, roll out dough as you would normally. Use a little flour to prevent the dough from sticking and a dough scraper to lift it, if it sticks to the board.

------------------------------------------------------------------

[biondanonima]

Antilope - I didn't see anything in the link roxlet provided that said you must use all the water (although perhaps I didn't read carefully enough). I would imagine that if you used part shortening to make the dough, you might want all of the water (since shortening is pure fat). With all butter (which is between 15-19% water), I'm not surprised that roxlet found it overhydrated.

To compare it to the vodka crust, the ingredients are exactly the same except that the vodka recipe calls for 4T. of liquid for a single crust pie, and 4T of the 10T of total fat is shortening instead of butter. I find the vodka recipe to be quite wet as far as pie doughs go, but it makes it much easier to work with than other recipes I've tried. And while there is more liquid called for, the lack of water in the shortening and the presence of alcohol must make up for that, because I've never felt the crust was overhydrated or noticed any ill effects in the baked final product.

Anyway, all of this science-y talk has me wondering - I'm thinking of trying an all-butter crust the next time I make pie, with 2T. of water and 1T. of vodka. I have also read that pastry chefs often beat their butter in a stand mixer until it exudes some of its water for a richer product - that might be worth a shot as well. I will post the results for sure!

[Antilope]

Below the article are questions and answers. The author answered a question about using all the water and wetness of the dough:

"Question:

I tried to make this pie yesterday and the dough come out so wet that I only added 3 tablespoons of water and even sprinkled some extra flour in.

The crust was good, but not as flaky as I would have expected -- my usual recipe, with some vodka substituted for water is flakier.

1) Is the reduced flakiness because of the reduced water?

2) Should I have just followed the directions and started with a really wet dough -- does the dough from your recipe turn out a lot wetter than usual?

3) Does the water content in butter vary enough to account for the problem I'm having? I used Kirkland brand butter from Costco.

-b1ff! at 11:31AM on 07/05/11

Answer:

1) yep, you need to add all the water to develop enough gluten

2) yep, the dough is wetter than usual when you bring it together, but after it chills it should be really really easy to roll out. If you are used to normal, dry and crumbly pie doughs, this one will probably feel a little strange to work with, but once you get used to it, it's way easier than the traditional kind.

3) the water content in the butter makes no difference, since it's emulsified into the fat, so doesn't really come into contact with the flour. The range of water content in butter is not very significant anyway. A couple percantage points at most, which ends up being just a fraction of a teaspoon. It makes no difference.

-J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 11:55AM on 07/06/11 (Author of the article)"

[biondanonima]

Thanks for posting that - I didn't see the Q&A. I have actually had a couple of my vodka crusts turn out more crumbly than flaky, and I wonder if it's because I handle the dough very gingerly (as I was always taught to do with pie crust) instead of working it a little more and allowing some gluten to form. Perhaps next time I'll work the water/vodka in a little more thoroughly than usual and see what happens.

[Antilope]

>>Well, as I said, add the water carefully as mine was over-hydrated with 5 tablespoons! by roxlet

Read the Q & A below the article. The author answers a question about using all the water recommended. The answer is, yes use all the water, it's necessary to develop gluten and end up with a flaky crust.

[roxlet]

I'm curious to see if he addresses the butter/shortening issue...

[biondanonima]

I made pie crust today and I was reminded of this conversation, so I checked the original recipe and comments again. In one of his comments, he states that you can use butter and shortening interchangably, since the water in butter is emulsified and therefore doesn't contribute to the hydration of the dough (unless it melts, as he mentions).

Anyway, I followed Kenji's recipe with all butter, but used 2T. vodka and 4T. water instead of 6T. water. Since I am a huge fan of the CI vodka crust, hopefully this will be the best of both worlds! I didn't find the dough too wet, but I am accustomed to the CI version, which calls for 2T more liquid than Kenji's recipe, so I may be "biased." The dough is chilling in the fridge now, and I'll report back when I make my pie in a couple of days. I'm also planning to try it with leaf lard as soon as I get my hands on some!

[biondanonima]

The crust turned out perfectly - no issues with it being overhydrated. I don't know if the vodka was necessary or not but I think I'll try it without next time, just to see. All butter added a nice bit of extra richness.