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Need info about the yin and yang of Chinese nutrition theory

rworange Jul 11, 2011 07:27 PM

A friend is learning how to cook Chinese food and wanted to know more about the nutritional aspect. His primary interest is in the food, but he was interested in in learning some of the possible health aspects.

So it is not about using food for medicinal benefits, but more curiosity of the benefits of eating some of these dishes and how to achieve balanced meals.

This wiki article has a little about it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_food_therapy

Yang foods are believed to increase the body's heat (e.g. raise the metabolism), while Yin foods are believed to decrease the body's heat (e.g. lower the metabolism). As a generalization, Yang foods tend to be dense in food energy, especially energy from fat, while Yin foods tend to have high water content. The Chinese ideal is to eat both types of food to keep the body in balance"

Are there any sites or books that have recipes along with the nutritional benefits such as this link which only has one recipe for squash and chestnut soup?

http://www.meridianpress.net/recipes.html

This link looking for restaurants on the SF board mentions a book by Grace Young, called The Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen: Classic Family Recipes for Celebration and Healing

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/27609

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/...).

Can anyone shed more light on the subject or how to research it? About all I know about health benefits is to drink pu-erh tea after dim sum to aid digestion.

  1. Melanie Wong Jul 15, 2011 05:32 AM

    This old post recommends The Chinese Herbal Cookbook ISBN 0-8348-0480-8

    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/2372...

    1. K K Jul 14, 2011 10:05 PM

      The wiki entry of Asian soups has an interesting segment

      Medicinal

      Many Asian soups are consumed as a partial restorative and heavily linked with theories from traditional Chinese medicine. There are many varieties of such tonic soups, ranging from pungent to light in flavour, and from savoury to sweet.[2] Some soups of the same name may consist of different recipes due to regional preferences or differences. Such soups commonly contain one or more meats (typically pork or chicken), vegetables, and medicinal herbs.

      The most commonly used herbs, which are believed to be mildly invigorating, restorative, or immune-stimulating in nature, include wild yam (Dioscorea opposita), Astragalus membranaceus, Codonopsis pilosula, Angelica sinensis, wolfberry, and jujube.[3] Ginseng and lingzhi are used less frequently, due to their comparatively higher price.

      Many specific recipes for tonic soups using other herbs exist. Some of the best known include:
      Sijunzi tang (T: 四君子湯, literally "four nobles soup"); contains Panax ginseng (人參) Atractylodes macrocephala (白朮), Fu Ling (茯苓), and Glycyrrhiza uralensis (甘草)
      Siwu tang (T: 四物湯, S: 四物汤; literally "four substances soup"); contains Angelica sinensis (T: 當歸, S:当归), Paeonia lactiflora (T: 芍藥, S: 芍药), Ligusticum wallichii (川芎), and Rehmannia glutinosa (T: 地黃, S: 地黄)[4]
      Sishen tang (T: 四神湯, S: 四神汤; literally "four-divinity soup"): Usually cooked with slivered pork stomach and known as "Sishen zhudu tang" (T: 四神豬肚湯, S: 四神猪肚汤; literally "four-divinity pig stomach soup")[5]; contains Dioscorea opposita (淮山/山藥), Lotus seed (Nelumbo nucifera)(蓮子), Fu Ling (茯苓), and Euryale ferox seeds (芡實)
      Liuwei tang (T: 六味湯, S: 六味汤; literally "six-taste soup"): A sweet soup used for clearing "heat". Ingredients may include: Cantonese restorative (廣東清補凉): The TCM version of Sâm bổ lượng, which contains Dioscorea opposita (淮山/山藥), Lilium lancifolium bulb (百合) Polygonatum odoratum (玉竹), Lotus seed (Nelumbo nucifera)(蓮子), Euryale ferox seeds (芡實), and either one of Dimocarpus longan fruit (龍眼) or Ziziphus zizyphus(紅棗)
      Houke Zhizhang (喉科指掌:卷二): Schizonepeta (荊芥), Saposhnikovia divaricata (T: 防風, S: 防风), Chinese bellflower (桔梗), Glycyrrhiza uralensis (甘草), stiff silkworm (T: 僵蠶, S: 僵蚕), and mentha (薄荷),[6]
      Yupingfeng formulation derivative (玉屏风散加味): Astragalus membranaceus (T: 黃芪, S: 黄芪), Atractylodes macrocephala (T: 白朮, S: 白术), Saposhnikovia divaricata (T: 防風, S: 防风), honeysuckle flower (T: 銀花, S: 银花), Dryopteris crassirhizoma (T: 貫眾, S: 贯众), and dried mandarin orange skin (T: 陳皮, 陈皮)[7]
      Gac (T: 木鱉子, S:木鳖子), Terminalia chebula fruits (T: 訶子, S: 诃子), Glycyrrhiza uralensis (甘草), cardamom (白豆蔻), and lightly cooked rice (微炒大米)[8]

      Bazhen tang (T: 八珍湯, S: 八珍汤; literally "eight-rarity/treasure soup"): When cooked with beaten egg, it is called "Bazhen danhua tang" (T: 八珍蛋花湯, S: 八珍蛋花汤; literally "eight treasure egg flower soup")[9]. This formulation is the combination of Si zhunzi tang (四君子湯) and Siwu tang (四物湯).
      Shiquan tang (T: 十全湯, S: 十全汤; literally "ten-complete soup", or more idiomatically "complete/wholesome soup"): More often known by its full name "Shiquen dabu tang" (T: 十全大補湯, S: 十全大补汤; literally "complete/wholesome great restorative soup"). This formulation is an extension of Bazhen tang (八珍湯) with the addition of Cinnamomum aromaticum (肉桂) and Astragalus propinquus (黃芪)

      1. Miss Needle Jul 13, 2011 08:18 AM

        Here's probably the best English book for the layperson on the subject:

        http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Healthy-Eating-According-Traditional/dp/0936185929

        And he'd also probably find this website helpful.

        http://www.foodsnherbs.com/

        This is actually a very complex topic. Most people aren't purely hot or cold. And many times heat syndromes can be caused by cold in another area as in the yin/yang philosophy, extreme yin can turn into yang and vice versa.

        And many different practitioners will have their own ideas about nutrition. Those who subscribe to the Li Dong Yuan's theories will say that even if you have a heat syndrome, you need to conquer that heat by eating warm foods and the digestive system is the key to whole body health, and the digestive system links foods that are warm in energetic nature (which is one of the reasons why salads and cold drinks are generally frowned upon).

        3 Replies
        1. re: Miss Needle
          rworange Jul 13, 2011 08:57 AM

          Thanks !!! Those links are exactly what he is looking for. That website was very interesting to me to as I know zilch about the subject.

          1. re: rworange
            d
            deborahm Jul 13, 2011 06:14 PM

            I am not a medical expert but I have heard of the following book (as a student) which may also be helpful in explaining general principles in TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) :
            http://www.amazon.com/Web-That-Has-We...
            Although it is not specifically about food, there may sections that deal with food/nutrition of interest to the layperson.

            1. re: deborahm
              Miss Needle Jul 14, 2011 09:15 AM

              An excellent read, but no section on food/nutrition. But it may help one to understand the philosophy and principles of Eastern nutrition. I sometimes find it a bit difficult to convey this information to those not familiar with the Chinese medicine vocab.

              RWorange, another book that may help is Healing with Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford.

              http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Whole-F...

              Paul's a vegan and I find a lot of the stuff to be a bit biased in that regard. And I think some of his research methods are a bit faulty. But an excellent book incorporating Eastern and Western nutritional principles (and spirituality). You just need to take this (and pretty much everything in life) with a grain of salt. I find that most lay people find this book overwhelming, especially as they tend to skip to chapters that they are most interested in. But if you read from the beginning, you probably can understand what's going on.

        2. ipsedixit Jul 12, 2011 09:13 PM

          This is really a topic beyond Chowhound's capabilities as a discussion board

          Like others have said, need to see an acupuncturist or a Chinese herbalist.

          They'll get their pulse taken, tongue looked at, etc. to figure out their basic constitution and what qi they lack or are too high in, etc.

          4 Replies
          1. re: ipsedixit
            rworange Jul 12, 2011 09:23 PM

            Well, maybe that's the answer. He is new to Chinese food and as mentioned, just curious about in in broad terms. The posts so far have been great in that regard and is about what he is looking for.

            1. re: ipsedixit
              Tripeler Jul 12, 2011 09:31 PM

              Totally agree with Ipsedixit here. I have used Chinese medicine for over 10 years, and the treatments and herbs can be very powerful. The patient certainly needs to be seen and observed in person.

              1. re: Tripeler
                rworange Jul 12, 2011 10:33 PM

                Again, he doesn't want to be a patient. That isn't even possible. He just wants to know a little about the subject. The people who gave an answer rather than saying it wasn't a subject that could be answered were helpful for this purpose

                He's just learning to cook Chinese food and wondering how all this fits in.

                1. re: rworange
                  Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 10:57 PM

                  This can be as simple and as complicate you like to be.

                  For more in depth analyses, the person can see a Chinese herbal doctor and to take herbal medicine. For simple cases, the person can just go by what his body is telling him and consume food accordingly. For instance if the person always feels cold or low in energy when others do not, then he should consume warmer foods. If the person develops cranker sore, ease of nose bleeding, easy to get stressed, then he should consumer colder foods. This is actually not too different from drinking a ice cold drink in a hot summer day and a warm cocoa in a snow day. Of course, the Chinese classification is a bit more complicated than ice cold drink and warm cocoa. Nevertheless, the person in question can often tell if he needs more or less heat.

            2. Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 02:33 PM

              I agree with PeteL. The person needs to be diagnosed to see if he/she is more toward yang (hot) and yin (cold). From there, the person is to eat the counteracting foods to mediate the body. On top of that, a person can change his/her degree of yang and yin during a year. In summer, most people are excessively hot and should eat colder foods. In winder, most people are excessively cold and should eat warmer foods. For simple example, watermelons are cold, so they are to be consumed during summer. Beef stew is hot, so it is good to be consumed during winter.

              Or so they say.

              1. anonymoose Jul 12, 2011 10:08 AM

                Unfortunately for your friend, the experts in this area are going to be Chinese medicine doctors and the majority of books and other reading material will be in Chinese. There do seem to be a few books in English available, although I have no idea how many recipes they have or if they are any good:

                http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-System-Food-Cures-Prevention/dp/0806963085
                http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Wisdom-Modern-Kitchen-Recipes/dp/073821325X

                A blog that I follow does Chinese soups and sometimes (but not all the time and not in great detail) talks about the medicinal purposes of them. One thing they do really well are features on specific ingredients. http://www.thechinesesouplady.com/

                1. PeterL Jul 11, 2011 10:22 PM

                  One very important is the constitution of the person. The food must be beneficial to the person. So if a person is either hot or cool constitutionally determines what kind of food he/she should eat. So you need to have a Chinese medicine doctor determine for you whether you are hot or cool.

                  9 Replies
                  1. re: PeterL
                    rworange Jul 11, 2011 11:01 PM

                    Anyway to get around that? This person lives in an area where it is highly unlikely a Chinese medicine doctor is available.

                    1. re: rworange
                      K K Jul 12, 2011 10:10 AM

                      He would have to travel to get to a licensed Chinese medicine doctor (or accupuncturist + herbalist) who can accurately diagnose the body by way of pulse measurement by the wrist area. There is absolutely no replacement for that.

                      There are many non Chinese people who are licensed accupuncturists that can prescribe herbs and can take one's pulse to diagnose, but with regards to using food to treat the body, is another body of knowledge altogether. Of course it doesn't hurt to call and find out if said accupuncturist can offer advice as well with the visit.

                      1. re: K K
                        rworange Jul 12, 2011 11:19 AM

                        Thanks.

                        He's not looking to use food as medicine, but more curious about how it is viewed in terms of health benefits.

                        I guess turning it to the American equivalent, oatmeal is considered a good breakfast food because it is a high source of fiber, good for lowering cholestrol and heart-healthy.

                        While I might go to a doctor who would come up with a diet that included oatmeal, I just eat it as well as balancing it with fresh fruit to meet daily nutritional requirements.

                        Is it similar with Chinese food?

                        In searching around a bit, jook seems to hold the same place as congee for certain health benefits depending on what is added.

                        Other than just tasting good and being comforting in the mornng (like oatmeal), how to people figure the health benefits into their daily meals?

                        1. re: rworange
                          K K Jul 12, 2011 12:07 PM

                          I think it is more about understanding where you are with your body (e.g. hot or coldness), and eating what keeps that optimal balance for best results. You could eat according to the food pyramid or 1/2 plate of veg and apples + carrots, and while that is certainly healthy from a western perspective, but it is not the same.

                          Like for example some people with allergies (e.g. dust or pollen) should not be drinking iced water or fruity/sweet cold drinks, according to Chinese medicine. Or those with hives might do well to stay away from citrus fruits, and in some cases, tomatoes, eggplant, and certain kinds of vegetables (and of course the usual greasy fried unhealthy foods which is common sense). So even if I eat my 1/2 to 3/4 plate of veggies, the Chinese doc will still say I'm off balance for whatever reasons.

                          But if we are talking about something simple like congee, the Cantonese believe it cleanses the digestive passage and resets it (especially if some gunk was introduced to make one turn blue). And we are not talking about congee with fish, pork, chicken, or beef added, just plain congee, maybe with some tofu skin (yuba) added on top with maybe ginko nuts and absolutely no MSG put in.

                          Another example: Hong Kong Cantonese people enjoy eating lamb claypots (e.g. lamb brisket) during winter, as it is nuturing to the body during cold weather. Or stewing soups with say, fruit and dried clam/shellfish of some sort (like a whelk but different) for male skin complexion ("moistening it" is the word but how true I have no idea). Or a stewed soup with lotus root, pork bones and other ingredients does one thing, versus watercress, pork bones, and Chinese almonds that helps loosen up phelgm for dry coughs. I have no way of proving whether these work or not, but I'd say just go with whatever tastes good and is healthy in general.

                          1. re: K K
                            c
                            chocolatetartguy Jul 12, 2011 01:29 PM

                            "Or stewing soups with say, fruit and dried clam/shellfish of some sort (like a whelk but different) for male skin complexion ("moistening it" is the word but how true I have no idea). "

                            Would that be like the foo jook soup my uncle makes: tofu skins (foo jook to us), dried scallop, dried squid, gingko nuts, some pork, some fungus? Funky but delicious.

                            1. re: chocolatetartguy
                              K K Jul 12, 2011 02:09 PM

                              I stand corrected, the fruit and shellfish stewed soup is actually honeydew and conch 螺頭 and arguably dried conch on top of that.

                              No the stuff your uncle makes is lo for tong (old/slow fire cooked soup), unless he stews portions of it in porcelain bowl with lid on in the oven for 6 hours. Lo For Tong is just cooking the soup on a pot, nothing more.

                              Certain stewed soups (dun tong 燉湯, which are pre-prepared soups then placed into an oven) claim to have a moisturizing effect 滋潤 (zi yuhne).

                              滋潤 can have dual meaning, moisturizing, and/or nurturing. Eating foods and soups that improve 滋潤 can help restore skin (exterior) and interior wise, improve vitality and energy.

                              There's a saying in Chinese called 食不離補、補不離食, meaning that food should not depart from healing properties, and conversely when talking about healing, one cannot exclude food.

                              Cantonese snake soup for example, is another oddball yet classical food maintenance medicine.

                              Most oven stewed soups tend to contain some Chinese herbs for specific effect. Dried wolfberries (goji) and red dates go a little beyond adding sweetness.

                              As far as adding fruits to soup like honeydew, that is a fairly recent phenomenon, maybe 40 years ago the only soup that had fruit in it was a kind that used Chinese pear. The introduction of honeydew in Cantonese lo for tong probably came about when Western fruit became more widely available via imports, and one of the first known restaurants to do so is West Villa restaurant (1980s?) to impress a government official (a Brit) and they nicknamed it Duke's soup. Of course there would also be conch, fish maw (another very healing and delicious dried seafood item), lean pork, maybe chicken, chicken and/or pork bones, Chinese ham etc. Natural fruit sweetness combined with the soup make it very appetizing too.

                              1. re: K K
                                c
                                chocolatetartguy Jul 12, 2011 05:28 PM

                                What my uncle made was Lo For Tong then. Cooked in a pot and did include red dates and maybe goji. I swear that the pot stayed on top of the stove until we finished it.

                                My uncle was a surgeon and I never thought he cooked the soup with medicinal properties in mind. Perhaps he was more traditional minded than I thought.

                                Anyway, a great soup and I always asked my mother to prepare her less funky version on my birthday along with pork cake with waterchestnuts and preserved Chinese vegetable.

                                I'm no expert on Chinese ways, but doesn't yin and yang also refer to balance among the dishes within a single meal?

                                1. re: chocolatetartguy
                                  K K Jul 12, 2011 09:51 PM

                                  Doubtful, as the term yin/yang has more of a religious (in Taoism)/spiritual/internal energy flow meaning, rather than it being applied to the balance of a set of dishes. For sure when you go out to most Cantonese banquets, there isn't really a balance, but more so an abundance, (in some cases overeating or overdose) with certain dishes having specific meaning on for example, Chinese New Year (or a wedding banquet for that matter), but doesn't do any good for the yin yang.

                                  1. re: K K
                                    c
                                    chocolatetartguy Jul 14, 2011 12:47 PM

                                    I thought that balance in all things was part of the concept of yin and yang. When my elders order, they always see that there is a mix of meat and vegetable dishes, surf and turf, spicy and mild and never too much of the same sort of thing. There always seems to be a delicate balance in the choice of the dishes.

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