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Watanabe Blade- My new deba

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Dave5440 Jul 6, 2011 04:05 PM

My new deba arrived this morning 14n days after I ordered it from Japan. It's a 165mm in blue paper steel . Boy is this thing sharp and quite hefty for a 165(i'll weigh it later).Mirror polish on the edges, but no micro bevel on the backside but it is polished about .030" at what looks like a 1degree angle. I just used it for only for a few min tonite as I was getting dinner prepped. Using just the blade weight it dropped into a quite hard green pepper about 3/16th" and a soft tomato about the same, shave hair-yes, push cut paper-yes effortlessly. I will do some more with it and write up a better review when I get time. The last pic is beside my Miyabi

  1. Chemicalkinetics Jul 6, 2011 04:35 PM

    Wow, you wrote a review 2 seconds after I requested it. :)

    How can your knife came in 14 days after you ordered it? I remember you ordered yours before mine and mine came in today (2 week and 3 days) after I ordered mine. Blue paper steel would be my preference too. It is more corrosion resistant so it has slightly better edge retention in a wet and acidic environment. May I ask is the back side, the so called flat side... is that slightly hollow? Because it should be slightly hollow/concave to enhance performance.

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/301/knifesharpening032so.gif/sr=1

    http://tojiro.net/images/blade01_full...

    Edited: Now, I went to Watanabe website and I cannot be sure if Watanabe actually does an uraoshi before sending off the knife. It is not wrong to send the knife off without completing this step especially in Japan because any knife shops can complete this step for you. However, it is slightly more challenging to find someone to do this for you over here.

    2 Replies
    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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      Dave5440 Jul 6, 2011 04:46 PM

      Yes it is , it's so shiny I missed it , it looks like about 1mm deep , and the polished part is what touched the stone. In the second pic the writing from the top knife is visible on the bottom one. I ordered it on june 22 and it got here today

      1. re: Dave5440
        Chemicalkinetics Jul 6, 2011 04:54 PM

        Oh good, it looks like it is done. One less thing to worry then. I was slightly worry because when I looked at the photo from Watanbe, it seems many of them do not have that step done, like this one:

        http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/...

        but he probably took the pictures of the knives in stocks and not the pictures of the knives sending to customers. For traditional reasons, Japanese bladesmiths do not complete this final step until the knives are sold. In other words, they don't hollow the backside and store the knives in a box.

        For some reasons, I thought you ordered your knives before mine because you told us the story about you accidentally ordered the knife using the wrong form, and I remember I ordered my knife after that. However, maybe you had not paid him at the time. I actually ordered mine on June 20th, so two days before yours.

    2. cowboyardee Jul 6, 2011 06:41 PM

      Lookin good, Dave. I like your shot showing the urasuki side using the spine of your gyuto.

      A couple questions -
      Have you ever sharpened a traditional single bevel knife or will this be your first? Your Henckels is now single beveled, I believe - I'm wondering how different you find it.

      Is there a double (micro)bevel edge on the first inch or so at the heel of the knife? I know that's popular with debas, but I don't know if Watanabe does that or if people just add it (or not) at home,

      Have you had a chance to take it to any fish today? I'd like to hear about it after the first time you do. A deba seems like a really cool knife in terms of cutting technique.

      In any case, congratulations. Enjoy.

      40 Replies
      1. re: cowboyardee
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        Dave5440 Jul 6, 2011 08:06 PM

        Thank you, I will be trying fish very soon (as soon as I can get my fishing partner out), Yes my henkles is single bevel and this is what sold me on buying the deba, my converted knife is really good on fish and chicken but chips very easily and I'm now at 18.5 on the front and I added a 10deg micro on the back to make it easier to get the burr on the back(without the uraoshi it scratches the back, you can see how beat up the henkles is) but now at nearly 30deg it doesn't cut anywhere near it did at 10deg. At 10deg total it would go slice through a chicken leg bone (near the joint) without even slowing down , but I would have to go back and find the bone peices.So I'm in the process of taking the front back to 10 and the back to 10 for 20 total in an 80/20 split. In everyday use I find the henkles will steer if I push cut harder stuff like root veg, but slicing it doesn't do it. When I started sharpening the henkles I scratched the @#$% out of it and I really didn't care because there's nothing special about it, but this one I don't want to mess up so, I'm not going to attempt to sharpen it untill I get a stone to do the back side.

        And lastly it looks like the bevel is slightly wider for the first 1/2 inch at the heel, but it still looks flat(I can't find my magnifying glass) but I will look into that further. I have heard that he doesn't add micro bevels to the back from a reveiw that I read, but can't find now.

        1. re: Dave5440
          petek Jul 6, 2011 08:24 PM

          Dave; You might want to check out these youtube videos from JKI(JBrodia)if you already haven't.I hope he doesn't mind me posting them..

          www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread...
          scroll down to the bottom of the page

          1. re: petek
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            Dave5440 Jul 6, 2011 09:13 PM

            I watched a few with the sound off(SO is in the room) will watch them all when I can absorb them

            1. re: petek
              s
              smkit Jul 6, 2011 09:16 PM

              You can also go to Jon's YouTube channel.

              http://www.youtube.com/user/JKnifeImp...

              Jon knows his stuff.

              1. re: smkit
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                Dave5440 Jul 6, 2011 09:24 PM

                Thanks, I just subscribed

                1. re: Dave5440
                  JBroida Jul 6, 2011 10:25 PM

                  I'm also starting to hang around here more often, so if you have any questions or would like clarification of any points just ask

                  1. re: JBroida
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                    smkit Jul 7, 2011 06:02 AM

                    I saw you poking around. Welcome. I guess you have a lot of extra time with your new shop ;)

                    1. re: JBroida
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                      Dave5440 Jul 7, 2011 05:50 PM

                      I will take you up on that.

                      1. re: Dave5440
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                        Dave5440 Jul 9, 2011 10:04 PM

                        Well I finally got out to good fishing grounds today, Had to go it alone but it was well worth it, I got 5 smallmouth bass (2 to 5 lbs), 1 pike (7lbs) and a couple of 4lb sheephead. I kept 2 bass 2 & 3lbs (big ones go back!). So the real test of my deba , it worked great I have never been able to shave that close to the rib bone so easily , mind you it's a steep learning curve and you only get one shot at it so the first fillet ahh was not so good but 2-4 got better. Cutting the skin is always a challenge and even with this blade it still took some effort(but the easiest of any knife i've used) , so I think it could be sharper . Cutting the meat it was to easy to cut too far too fast and ruin the fillet as it just cuts with no effort and it will go straight out the side. So best results were just pushing the knife down and let it follow the ribcage on it's own. Strange thing from inside the fish it would go through the skin out far easier than starting on the outside trying to go in. The major adjustment I found is doing the right side of the fish (looking down head in front), normal way is to start at the head and work to the tail, but with a right hand knife the bevel is on the wrong side to do it this way , so I started at the tail (very awkward) and with some practice it might become natural, but I think an easier way would be to order a left hand version for the right side. (I'll get right on that). Next challenge, chickens i'll have to pick some up this week. Any suggestions on stones , I want a 10k water, but don't want to spend 150$ on a naniwa.

                        1. re: Dave5440
                          petek Jul 9, 2011 10:17 PM

                          I get great results with my Arashiyama 6k and Sugimoto 1k.Knife carries both but you can get the Arash cheaper here.I've heard that this particular 6k stone is more like an 8k

                          www.toshoknifearts.com/shop/sharpenin...

                          mine didn't come with a base or nagura so this is a good deal from a local purveyor.

                          1. re: petek
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                            Dave5440 Jul 9, 2011 10:31 PM

                            Have they opened their shop yet , the Kitayama #8000 looks like a good deal

                            1. re: Dave5440
                              petek Jul 9, 2011 10:38 PM

                              I think they're opening sometime this month in "Mirvish Village" Bloor and Bathurst

                              Also check out this knife shop in Montreal..pretty nice selection

                              www.montrealknife.com

                              1. re: Dave5440
                                cowboyardee Jul 9, 2011 11:11 PM

                                Dave, thanks for the detailed write up. Sounds like a pretty productive day of fishing - I'm happy if I land a single keeper.

                                As for stones - the kitayama 8k is very well loved, it seems.

                                I personally finish a lot of knives off on a 8k superstone, which is fairly comparably priced. I think it's a pretty great stone. No soak, a little soft, good feedback, leaves a hell of an edge, not super fast like a chosera but certainly fast enough for a 8k - I often jump from 2k without any major problems. It doesn't seem to get the buzz of the kitayama, but I haven't talked to anyone who actually has this stone and doesn't speak highly of it.

                                Functionally in terms of cutting food, I'm not convinced there's much real benefit of 10k and 12k stones.

                                But I might be jumping the gun - what's your currrent sharpening progression, and where do you finish right now? Do you strop?

                                1. re: cowboyardee
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                                  Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 07:45 AM

                                  Right now I'm just using the an edge pro to 10k, I don't strop yet , but plan on it soon. Summer is so busy I can't see me doing much untill the fall. I want a stone that will maintain the polish on my blade, but if you think cutting performance is not better after 8k why strop then?

                                  1. re: Dave5440
                                    Chemicalkinetics Jul 10, 2011 09:17 AM

                                    "Right now I'm just using the an edge pro to 10k"

                                    Then why get a 10K flat stone? Can't you put your Deba on the EdgePro with the 10K? On the flat side (back side) of the knife, I assume you can just remove the that 10K EdgePro stone make a few swipe on the flat side.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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                                      Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 12:22 PM

                                      The main reason is there's no zero on the EP , and to use the stone flat is very awkward , plus I want to start learning hand sharpening, so I might go with 2 stones to start or a combo.

                                      1. re: Dave5440
                                        Chemicalkinetics Jul 10, 2011 02:20 PM

                                        Dave,

                                        Right, I just thought it is possible to take the EdgePro stone and take a few swipes on the knife, but maybe it is tougher than I thought. That being said and all, is it necessary to polish a deba bocho on a 10000 grit stone? A deba knife, unlike a yanagiab knife, will see a lot more tougher actions, so it would seem the polished edge from a 10K will not last very long and unnecessary. Just for exaggeration, you won't polish a boning knife on a 10K stone, right?

                                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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                                          Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 03:00 PM

                                          I'm not sure if I should feel foolish or not , yes I put a polished edge on my boning knife , I took every knife we have(had) to 10k , I figgured if he shipped my deba with a polished edge it should stay that way. I could use the ep stone but being so narrow it's easy to tip it side to side and leave a mark as I did with the henkles.

                                          1. re: Dave5440
                                            Chemicalkinetics Jul 10, 2011 03:09 PM

                                            "yes I put a polished edge on my boning knife"

                                            Oh I did that too for awhile, and then realize it didn't really help me in the long run.

                                            Yes, I am sure Mr. Watanabe polished the knife before shipping it to you, but even then I am unsure if he polished on a 10K stone. My Naniwa 5000 Super stone yield a mirror like reflection on the bevel. At the same grit, some brand of stones are just better at producing a more polished finish.

                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                              d
                                              Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 07:36 PM

                                              Now that you mention it , it's not as shiny as my henkels @ 10k, close but not quite.

                                              1. re: Dave5440
                                                d
                                                Dave5440 Jul 11, 2011 07:59 PM

                                                I sent sin an email asking what grit it was finished on , reply "The finshing stone is #8000" "You can get the surface with #6000 on our website."
                                                http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/...

                                                1. re: Dave5440
                                                  Chemicalkinetics Jul 11, 2011 08:48 PM

                                                  :) Thank for the information, Dave. It seems the Watanabe blade guild really cares about polishing the blade for customer. No one the knife can push cut a paper out of the box too. Not many knives can are shipped out with such fine condition, and other companies will charge you extra money for the fine waterstone finish.

                                    2. re: Dave5440
                                      cowboyardee Jul 10, 2011 02:11 PM

                                      Ah, I see. I was thinking you freehand - forgot you have an EP. For your purposes sharpening the ura side of a deba already sharpened to 10k on EP, I can see why you'd want a 10k. But if you really feel you're going to give free handing more of a chance, and you're starting out with only 2 or 3 stones, I feel an 8k is more versatile, and an easier transition from most medium grit stones. More affordable too. I think it would still work well in conjunction with the EP for the ura side of your deba. So the big question is how serious are you about picking up freehanding?

                                      "but if you think cutting performance is not better after 8k why strop then?"
                                      _____________
                                      Ok, I've over-simplified. I'll explain. For starters, I'm talking about freehanding - grit selection on an Edgepro is a different sort of beast, not least of which because of guaranteed productivity (i.e. you'll never accidentally mess up a perfectly good edge from a coarser grit on an EP).

                                      For one, it's not that cutting performance is no better. It's more that the tiny advantage in push cutting performance between an 8k (well used) and a 10k+ is soon lost when you're cutting on a board. You've seen Salty's vids of him push cutting tomatoes, right? Notice that even over the course of a single tomato, he can't cut all with a single section of the blade (with most knives) - that he slowly inches forward? I haven't had a knife sharpened by Dave Martell or anything (he talks up his edge retention a lot), but it's been my experience that the extreme sharpness of a very highly polished edge is lost over the course of just a few cuts, and the knife settles into a still-very-sharp edge that's just a little less capable of splitting free-hanging unicorn hairs.

                                      For another, there is a degree of toothiness that I find I like in a knife's edge for most tasks, and I feel that meticulously polishing to a 10k or 12k edge (with the usually-entailed stop at a 5k-8k stone first) can sacrifice that. Even an 8k can overdo it for my tastes if I keep on it long enough. It seems I am deliberately not fully polishing out some of the scratches from coarser stones. YMMV.

                                      Answering your question more directly, I strop for two different reasons. One is in between sharpenings as a kind of maintenance. The point there is to quickly restore that extra oomph to the knife's edge, but not necessarily to make it pristine as a freshly sharpened straight razor, and for that I use a chrome-ox loaded leather strop - it seems to work faster than newspaper, while also being more useful and forgiving on a slightly rounded edge that's already been in use rather than the relatively pristine edge just off the stones.

                                      The other reason is to help remove a wire edge just off the stones and improve edge retention. For that I use a sheet of newspaper laid on a flat stone. It also seems to polish to some small extent - in practice, newspaper stropping is actually doing some of the work that others might do on a 10k or 12k stone. But IMO the newspaper is easier to use freehand. It's easier to avoid over-polishing and harder to mess up the edge with a bad stroke or two. And it costs basically nothing, while a large fine grit stone costs upwards of $100.

                                      Sorry for the treatise. It's not an easy question to answer simply. This is all just sorta my current thinking. There are plenty of good sharpeners who'd disagree with me - freehanding is all about finding what works for you.

                                      1. re: cowboyardee
                                        JBroida Jul 10, 2011 02:19 PM

                                        i agree that 10k is overkill for a deba... you lose touch with the feeling of the cut with overly polished edges on knives like this... deba respond best to edges in the 3-6k grit range

                                        1. re: JBroida
                                          cowboyardee Jul 10, 2011 02:22 PM

                                          I can tell from your videos that you're a good sharpener. And I'm sure you're more experienced with different types of knives than I am - on what kitchen knives would you consider a 10k not to be overkill?

                                          1. re: cowboyardee
                                            JBroida Jul 10, 2011 02:26 PM

                                            for slicing knives it makes more sense... yanagiba, sujihiki, etc., however, even then there are times when it can be overkill... i personally prefer toothier edges on my knives, but there are some higher grit stones that leave toothier edge feels, so i tend to use those more often

                                            1. re: cowboyardee
                                              JBroida Jul 10, 2011 02:27 PM

                                              oh... and thanks by the way... i'm glad i dont come across like an idiot in my videos ;)

                                              1. re: JBroida
                                                Chemicalkinetics Jul 10, 2011 02:38 PM

                                                Nice suggestion on the 10K stone. Yes, your videos are very nice. I am sure business is thriving.

                                                1. re: JBroida
                                                  cowboyardee Jul 10, 2011 03:09 PM

                                                  Welcome. Like with any physical skill, there is a practiced ease and economy of motion good sharpeners have that you just can't fake, even if you know all the motions. On top of that, your stroke is a good one for new sharpeners to emulate - it offers a lot of feedback and angle control. They're good videos.

                                            2. re: cowboyardee
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                                              Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 03:09 PM

                                              Cowboy
                                              Thanks for such an in depth reply, I didn't realize that stropping is a good way to maintain the edge, I figgured it must do something as most barbers do it.
                                              JBroida, your vids are great , what stone did you reccomend, I missed it

                                              1. re: Dave5440
                                                JBroida Jul 10, 2011 03:18 PM

                                                picking a stone depends on what you are looking for finish-wise and edge-feel-wise

                                                do you currently have any full sized stones or just the EP stones?

                                                1. re: JBroida
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                                                  Dave5440 Jul 10, 2011 07:28 PM

                                                  I have the Chosera stones for my ep which I like the feel of and the 120,220 edge pro brand stones, which I really don't like. So my natural first choice would be the full size chosera

                                                  1. re: JBroida
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                                                    Dave5440 Jul 11, 2011 06:57 PM

                                                    JBroida or anybody else

                                                    do you have any thoughts on the Shapton Glass stones?

                                                    1. re: Dave5440
                                                      cowboyardee Jul 11, 2011 07:35 PM

                                                      Haven't used em. About 3-4 years ago they were really popular for the following reasons: no soak, very hard, slow dishing.

                                                      Now they're a lot less popular. The stones haven't changed, nor have their advantages. Most of the people who fault them do so in terms of feedback - the glass stones are thought of as too hard with poor feedback. A little odd to me, considering the popularity of the bester stones (OTOH, those do cut quite aggressively).

                                                      1. re: cowboyardee
                                                        d
                                                        Dave5440 Jul 11, 2011 07:54 PM

                                                        Well I do need an aggressive stone for my miyabi, and it's my practice knife now,

                                                        1. re: Dave5440
                                                          Chemicalkinetics Jul 11, 2011 08:58 PM

                                                          In my opinion, characteristics which are great for a coarse stone are not the same as a finishing stone. It is nice to have a coarse stone which does not dish, so you don't have to frequently lap the stone while doing some heavy works. It is also nice to have a fast cutting coarse stone, so it can reduce your work time. On the other hand, it may be nicer to have a softer and more responsive fine stone.

                                                      2. re: Dave5440
                                                        JBroida Jul 11, 2011 10:46 PM

                                                        i'm not such a huge fan of them personally... they are good stones and all, but i prefer many other stones over them. If you want to shoot me an e-mail, i'd be happy to talk with you more about stones, but i'm not sure i can do so on here without breaking a few rules.

                                                        anyways, the gist of it for me is that kitchen knives (especially traditional single bevel knives) respond best to stones with a little give in them (not too hard). Also there are certain abrasives and bonding agents that give the kind of feeling i prefer. When you are working with wide bevels (like on single bevel knives), it also helps to use stones that build up mud... this will help you get a more even polish and smooth finish.

                                        2. re: Dave5440
                                          Chemicalkinetics Jul 9, 2011 10:37 PM

                                          "I kept 2 bass 2 & 3lbs (big ones go back!)"

                                          Is it by law that you have to let the big one go back? I thought it is letting the small ones go back so they have a chance to grow up and breed.

                                          "you only get one shot..."

                                          I don't know much about butchering a fish. Did you cut close to the spine/ribcage and then just slide the deba parallel along the spine? Is that why it is one shot?

                                          "Cutting the skin is always a challenge and even with this blade it still took some effort"

                                          I didn't even know deba could be used for removing fish skin.

                                          "Any suggestions on stones , I want a 10k water, but don't want to spend 150$ on a naniwa."

                                          No good suggestion. I was and am on the same boat as you. What is your highest grit stone at this moment? I heard this no name brand is pretty good:

                                          http://www.chefknivestogo.com/im10fist.html

                                          also why not consider a thinner Naniwa super stone of 1 cm instead of the 2 cm. You should not have to grind a high grit stone much. It is $62 here on eBay

                                          http://cgi.ebay.com/JAPANESE-Naniwa-E...

                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
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                                            Dave5440 Jul 9, 2011 11:26 PM

                                            Well to start with , there is no law (here at least) on size kept, but old school was keep the big ones let the small go, new think is let the big smart breeders go to keep breeding , makes sence to me , I used to let them all go and If I had of kept the sheeps, i would have let the bass go , I just wanted something to practise on.
                                            On cutting the fish skin I mean cutting into it not removing it from a fillet, a single bevel laid flat will skin a fillet without any effort all you have to do is lay the knife flat and slide.The one shot refers to the fact that if you cut to far one way or another you ruined a fillet, there's no fixing it but your technique is a good description.A 1cm stone would work for me , I will look into that , but an 8k that works like a 12, that's interesting. If I seem to be rambling or confusing i've been up for 20hrs and spent 10 of those in direct sun/75% humd 95f temp and the water was rough so my body is still rolling with the waves as I sit here. I think I covered everything, if not there's tomorrow

                                            1. re: Dave5440
                                              Chemicalkinetics Jul 9, 2011 11:35 PM

                                              Thanks for the reply.

                                              "an 8k that works like a 12"

                                              Well, that is the saying for the Kitayama #8000, isn't it? The particles breaks up as the slur is formed. Good luck selecting the stone.

                          2. d
                            Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 08:28 PM

                            Finally chicken choppin night arrived, I can see why these debas are poulty knives, It cut like it was warm butta(+1 Petec) I used the latest video from cowboy as reference as it was different than the way I am used to doing it and I am converted. Cutting-- touch the skin with the blade it's cut, when you get near the joints it goes through, if you missed the gap it cuts the end off the bone, One breast I separated from the bone, and it worked really well , leaving nothing on the keel bone, the other side I left on the bone by putting the tip at the start of the bone and rolling the blade backward spliting the bone cleanly. The only negative I found was cutting loose thin skin, the skin tended to roll with the blade still cutting but in a wavey pattern. After cutting it still push cut paper easily, shaved my arm hair and I couldn't find any chips on the edge or feel any.

                            24 Replies
                            1. re: Dave5440
                              petek Jul 12, 2011 08:43 PM

                              Like butta :D I can't wait to get a deba! I was handling a few the other day at KNIFE.I just love the weight and look of them..

                              1. re: petek
                                d
                                Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 09:37 PM

                                You can try mine if you'd like too

                                1. re: petek
                                  Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 09:38 PM

                                  Which brand have you narrowed down to? I assume the Moritaka is one of them?

                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                    petek Jul 12, 2011 09:55 PM

                                    No,no more Moritakas for me,I already have 3 and Moritaka's is a double bevel.I really want to try and buy local(or domestic),still don't trust Canada Post or want to deal with any hassles at the border, so that kind of limits my choices.I've looked at Sakai Takayuki,Ikkanshi Tadatsune and maybe Kikuichi

                                    There's a video of someone,maybe salty,breaking down chickens with a Tojiro Western Deba and man,he just flies through a case of birds in no time.

                                    1. re: petek
                                      JBroida Jul 12, 2011 09:59 PM

                                      western deba is good for this task... they are beasts when it comes to poultry

                                      1. re: JBroida
                                        d
                                        Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 10:01 PM

                                        Why?

                                        1. re: Dave5440
                                          JBroida Jul 12, 2011 10:04 PM

                                          the edge of a western deba is more suited to chopping through things... surprisingly, the edge on single bevel deba are not so strong. They are made to be able to cleanly fillet fish. Western deba, on the other hand, are just thick gyutos. Much more heavy duty and durable. If you want to split a chicken in half through bone, western deba would be my knife of choice. I'd still pick a honesuki or petty if i was going to fabricate more refined cuts from poultry.

                                2. re: Dave5440
                                  JBroida Jul 12, 2011 08:53 PM

                                  its really not a poultry knife at all... its a fish knife through and through. Honesuki and garasuki are for poultry. Doesnt mean it wont work well, but its just not what its designed for.

                                  1. re: JBroida
                                    d
                                    Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 09:40 PM

                                    Good thing misinformation is not a crime, every site I read deba is a fish/poultry knife, even some of the japanese sites

                                    1. re: Dave5440
                                      JBroida Jul 12, 2011 09:47 PM

                                      haha... i think its a common misconception. People see a big knife and think its a cleaver of sorts. The sad thing is that many people who sell the knives dont really understand how to use them properly. Again, its not that a deba cant do poultry... clearly it can... but its not the best knife for the task by any means. I dont think i would buy one if i was just looking for a poultry knife... but if i was just doing mainly fish and also wanted to some poultry, i might use a deba for that.

                                      Here's a good deba video:
                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfzGeu...

                                  2. re: Dave5440
                                    Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 09:02 PM

                                    "I can see why these debas are poulty knives"

                                    I kept reading Deba is good for breakdown fish and poultry. I just don't see it can be used the same way as a boning knife to cut around joint and everything, but I can see it being a much tougher knife almost like a butcher knife. Instead of cutting around the joint, it just cut right through thin bones. Good to know that you have good experience with it. Here is a video I just found ( a few minutes ago) on youtube about chicken breaking down by a deba. The dude just cut through the chicken bone in middle air (without cutting against a cutting board). I am surprised. My boning knife cannot do that. Pete and you are probably correct to emphasize the "cutting through like butter" phrase. Damn, just look at that 0:07 - 0:08 minute time point:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87u0Fw...

                                    "shaved my arm hair and I couldn't find any chips on the edge or feel any."

                                    Cool, evidently, the chicken bone is not hard enough for your aogami (blue paper) deba. Pretty cool.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                      petek Jul 12, 2011 09:19 PM

                                      That video is more about his technique than just about the knife being used(he does leave a lot of meat on the carcase).I can do the same thing with my gyuto or santuko but i get a cleaner bird if I use my honesuki.He's not realy going through any bones,just joints.

                                      1. re: petek
                                        JBroida Jul 12, 2011 09:29 PM

                                        that video shows exactly what i am talking about... the deba is clumsy for this kind of task... honesuki or garasuki is much better and more nimble. Heck, i use a 150mm wa-petty to break down chicken and can do it twice as fast with less meat left on the carcass. Its really just about 8 or so cuts start to finish. The rest is done using your hands.

                                        Check it out:
                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gf5QU...

                                        1. re: petek
                                          Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 09:30 PM

                                          Thanks Pete. You are right.

                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                          d
                                          Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 09:43 PM

                                          I don't think I would use it to debone a chicken , but cutting around a joint literally is quite easy , but you don't need to go around, go through it.

                                          1. re: Dave5440
                                            Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 09:46 PM

                                            "you don't need to go around, go through it."

                                            :) Awesome. So I take it that you like this knife so far. Maybe I will get a deba one day. Unfortunately, I don't break down chicken or fish very much.

                                            1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                              petek Jul 12, 2011 10:03 PM

                                              Sometimes we must buy things because we want,not need, doctore :D

                                              1. re: petek
                                                Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 10:21 PM

                                                Pete,

                                                :) I think you told me, but I forgot. Of all knives, why is your next knife going to be a deba?

                                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                  petek Jul 12, 2011 10:30 PM

                                                  Because I "want" one.I don't really "need' one.I already know how to use and sharpen a double bevel knife so this will be a kind of challenge for me.Even though I don't clean or break down a lot of fish I'll probably get more use out of a deba than a usuba or a yanagiba(sp?).And who knows If I like the deba maybe I'll add the other single bevel styles to my collection down the road... :-D

                                                  1. re: petek
                                                    Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 11:01 PM

                                                    :) Well, let us know when you buy your deba. (yes, you are right, the Moritaka deba I saw is double bevel)

                                              2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                d
                                                Dave5440 Jul 12, 2011 10:08 PM

                                                I've never gone around with any knife, always through

                                                1. re: Dave5440
                                                  Chemicalkinetics Jul 12, 2011 10:22 PM

                                                  Dave,

                                                  What is the size of your deba, especially the length? And do you mind I ask you the price you paid for including shipping and everything?

                                                  1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                                    d
                                                    Dave5440 Jul 13, 2011 03:03 PM

                                                    I asked for a 165mm and it measures 169 heel to tip, 7mm thick above the heel and 4mm at the tip above the taper to the edge. It was 268$

                                                    1. re: Dave5440
                                                      Chemicalkinetics Jul 13, 2011 03:07 PM

                                                      Thanks. Very similar to the base-price for a blue paper steel deba:

                                                      http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/...

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