superlative vancouver foods?
i sent this email to chowhound but i guess if it might help the public forum with a discussion i'll put it up here:
heres my situation.
i've been here three weeks and i've got about three more weeks in vancouver.
would like to make the most of it.
i try hard not to sound like a food douchebag, but sometimes i can't
help but be disappointed...i think traveling and living in LA has
i just recently moved to barclay right next to stanley park (was
living main and 4th for the first three weeks)
(i've been to motomachi shokudo which is pretty good)
i have a car so i can go ANYWHERE
i want to get king crab one time (i know its off season, but might go to come together for 20.00/lb)
spot prawns til season is dead
i'll definitely eat at ajisai more (took me 3 weeks to find a good sushi joint).
any other sushi joints on par with ajisai, and a similar price point?
point of reference:
my old go to spot for sushi in 2003 was sakae sushi, and i dislike tojo's for their heavy sauces,
i might be misguided/misinformed but i find that the main superlative
food in vancouver is chinese food. (so far i've had kalvins szechuan,
suhang, lao shandong, come together, guilin noodle joint on victoria,
and fishermans terrace) all have been good. (want to try peacful
restaurant and probably lao sichuan).
its the only thing ive found that is/on par better than LA.
in general. most asian food is unbeatable in LA due to the immigrant numbers
curious about la quercia (but i'm thinking i might be disappointed
again (and with western/euro food in general), and i'm heading to new
york for half a year in july)
chambar maybe overrated? same with campagnolo? abbatoir? salt?
i liked lumiere when i was out here last in 2003 but that seems history.
vij's i dont remember what i ate back then.
any "only in vancouver/canada" favorite spots or dishes you'd
recommend? historical joints?
i've been to fritz for my first poutine experience. good!
and had smoked salmon from granville. anything else?
superlative examples of foods?
dont really care about trendy, decor, service.
i thought bao bei food was pretty dismal but i was expecting that.
and i found the food at nuba to be borderline inedible,
i am spoiled with excellent lebo/armenian food in LA.
i might head out to an island or okanagan for this long weekend so if
there is a short list of spots out there that would be awesome too.
i know this is asking a lot but i just thought i'd throw it out there.
cheers! and happy to return the favor with LA one of these days..
Superlative .... tough word to define. Or benchmark against.
You are absolutely right, Chinese food in Vanc is about as good as it gets in N. America, for variety, quality/authenticity and PRICE.
Like LA, Vancouver is an immigrants-dominant city. Therefore there will be certain ethnic cuisines we are good/best at, not all, but some.
To answer your "only in vancouver/canada" favorite spots ?" quest, I might suggest Bishop's. John Bishop pioneered and shaped the culinary scene of Vancouver for the past 25+ years. Many of the city's now famous chefs held tutelage under JB. So if there is an "institution" in Vancouver one might pay homage to, it'd be Bishop's:
Pretty much the same said of JB can be said for the other "father" of superlative Vancouver culinary scene, Umberto Menghi. He has more an empire of restaurants:
And honestly I don't know if he's actively chef-ing at any one of his restaurants (doubt it) in the same way that JB still is.
Interestingly you mentioned possibly going to the island (Vancouver Island ?). If so, I recommend going to Sooke Harbour House, about 1 hour west of Victoria. It's a small resort with a famous resto known for its innovation and locally-sourced (much of it from their own estate) ingredients and supplies. Anthony Bourdain did a piece on Sooke:
(cue to 3:06):
SHH may quality as the defining Vancouver/west coast cuisine that is influenced by all the local flavours and cultures, uniquely interpreted and re-defined. I've only been there once :-(
re: PNW cuisine -- Another place to try is Willows Inn on Lummi Island. I know it isn't in BC (it is in Washington State), but it is within the Vancouver/BC "diner-shed". I have not yet been, but I hear great things about it from people I trust. Blaine Wetzel (sp?) cooked at celebrated Noma and is purportedly attempting to create a North America version.
Ajisai is a good sushi restaurant for sure, so well done on that. My current favourite is Kimura for the great value omakase.
As for the superlative in Vancouver, I have to admit I kinda hate trying to answer this question. I'm not sure Vancouver is ready to compete with other food cities the way some would like it to. We're young, still learning, with a relatively small and homogeneous population (certainly compared to LA).
People rave about the seafood here, but we have so few good seafood restaurants (and they are expensive) that I usually recommend a Cantonese one when asked where to go. I don't think we necessarily even have stellar "Chinese" (so broad!) here but rather some very good Cantonese options, maybe even some worthy Shanghainese. Still no really amazing Sichuan that I've tried, only a handful of Hunan, one really good in my book (Alvin Garden) and lots of holes otherwise.
I think there are some good Vietnamese restaurants here, and you might want to check out Bishop's on the other end of the scale. I also enjoy the izakayas here, though perhaps you have that in abundance at home. You may be doomed to disappointment but good on you for persevering.
what is the likely cost of omakase at kimura?
the a la carte nigiri prices are a touch more than ajisai. but if they have a large selection of imported fish then i'd be willing to try?
kimura was on my list. he and his partner were both LA chefs.
i used to go to terried sake house when i was in college.
suhang was excellent for shanghainese/hanzhou/suzhou cuisine. better than i've had in LA perhaps in a nice setting to boot.
i hear lao si chuan is good.
and peaceful restaurant for shanxi food.
vietnamese probably cant compare with garden/grovewestminster. are there any good nhau joints? (pub food, like vietnamese izakaya)
I've only had omakase there (five times since January), which starts at $30 (I've done $30, $40 and $50 and enjoyed them all heartily). When uni is on offer it is typically a $10 upcharge. You can ask for a specific dish, or let Kimura-san know of any severe dislikes, but I tend to just let him roll. You get more than enough food so that if you don't love a course you can pass it on to your DC who likely will or just not eat all of it.
Call ahead (omakase walkin = disappointment!) and be sure to request to sit at the front of the sushi bar (there is a side bar, not as fun). I do believe he has a solid selection of imported fishies but again only had them as part of omakase where he's picking the best for us. This is his "retirement" restaurant and he runs it his way, which I like. Also enjoy the jazz on the hifi ;-).
I tend to prefer the more rustic Shanghainese places here but so glad to hear you found Suhang excellent. If you get the chance, hit up Ningtu on Kingsway near Victoria for the yellow fish with seaweed. Heaven in deep fried form.
I don't know Lao Sichuan -- off to Google. I do like Peaceful very much but you have to know what to order. Their menu is mad huge and there are some definite duds on there. Haven't been to the new outpost yet on Davie, just the one near Cambie many times.
I wonder if you would enjoy Nine Dishes. Their water boiled fish is head and shoulders above any other I've tried in our fair city. The lotus "burgers" and his house-made Sichuan sausage are spot on also. It's kind of a Sichuan/Beijing street food mashup with cheap beer. If you're interested, search this board for other reccs there.
Vietnamese izakaya, yes please! Don't know of any here but would love to. Probably not worth schlepping for given your embarrassment of riches at home but if you're in the hood (maybe getting that fish dish at Ningtu?) you could stop by Green Lemon Grass for some bot chien. It is really very well executed there.
2130 Kingsway, Vancouver, BC V5N2T5, CA
Green Lemon Grass
1086 Kingsway, Vancouver, BC V5V, CA
I pretty much have to agree with your assessment. Can't remember the last time I've had a superlative meal in Vancouver -- and pretty much the "above average" to "excellent" food that can be had here on a regular basis is Chinese -- mainly Cantonese and variations on that theme. Been recently enjoying the DIY noodles trend here, mainly at Cattle Cafe on Alexandria. As far as I know, that hasn't hit LA yet but maybe I'm wrong. (I think LA has a better Taiwanese food scene, by the way.)
A Vietnamese friend was raving to me yesterday about Hoi An on Victoria and 34th. Said that she went there to eat for 3 days straight, ordering everything on the menu. FWIW. Don't know if it could compete against Vietnamese in LA/OC though.
Haven't had an excellent western/euro meal in Vancouver -- hm, let's say in 5 years? Last time was at La Buca, maybe 5 years ago? You might try that over La Quercia. I've been to La Quercia but just found it okay. Things may have changed though.
Chambar, Abbatoir, Campognolo -- merely okay, IMHO. Senior lady ranting here: but people here get caught up in "trendy" and "hip" and that seems to be the focus of most restaurants these days.
We hit up Hoi An for their special dishes and there were very good but agree it might be a stretch to compete with LA. Plus their menu is tiny (which I kind of appreciate) so you could easily get through it in a couple meals. Beware that some of the specials are only available on the weekend. La Buca is my top choice for "Euro" food in Vancouver also, in this case muscular Italian. We go a couple of times a year to dine alla famiglia (it is a bit of a splurge) but I've also had great meals there a la carte. I also prefer it to La Quercia but haven't been to La Q in a couple years (though have tried La Ghianda their offshoot). I've had good to very good meals at Chambar but there is this weird thing there for me where one of the components of the main always strikes me as off/jarring with the others. I solve that by not eating that item, but it is strange. They do a fancy poutine that I like. Campagnolo does some things very well but in my experience suffers from the dreaded inconsistency. A recentish chef change may have fixed that but it's been a while since I've ventured in. Somewhat keen to try their new Roman place on Hastings. Still haven't made it to L'Abbatoir, so many places in Gastown that I still need to get to. It is a nice looking room for sure. I was admiring it on my way to Peckinpah last night for what turned out to be a very fine feast of northeast Carolina style BBQ and topnotch sides. Still in a quasi-meat coma today but that is my fault for eating so much, especially of the brisket.
La Buca Restaurant
4025 MacDonald St, Vancouver, BC V6L2N8, CA
1020 Main St, Vancouver, BC V6A, CA
3689 West 4th Avenue, Vancouver, BC V6R1P2, CA
LA has Vancouver beat in pretty much every category. Even the Chinese here as a general category is not as good as LA's. (Cantonese and Shanghainese maaay be a bit better here....but probably not by much.) LA's izakaya scene when taken as a whole is better that Vancouver's - though Vancouver has a much more "walkable" scene.
I can't pin down any one reason why our food is mediocre - considering the bounty of sources around us. It is probably a combination of things (real estate prices, demographics, taxes, alcohol prices, lack of entrepreneurial spirit, the domination of the so-called "Casual Fine Dining" chains...)
Anyway you can still eat well here....but I doubt anything will blow you away. This board can definitely steer you away from places that just suck.
ok a more specific question.
i was thinking of getting a smoked meat bagel at siegels.
then i heard that Omnitsky's deli had better smoked meat.
is the best bet to get a bagel at siegels and then smoked meat from Omnitsky's?
or is it not that great and just wait til i go to montreal one of these days?
and smoked meat from schwartz's of course
my gold standard for bagels is ess-a in new york (and smoked salmon from russ and daughters). i've never had a montreal style bagel...
Can't help much with the smoked meat question as I haven't tried Omnitsky's (Siegel's didn't excite me but I'm hardly an expert). I will say that I like Siegel's bagels the best of the so-called Montreal style you can get here -- guess you'd have to go to Mtl for the real thing, which is worth doing if my taste memory serves. Since Siegel's doesn't do NY style I suppose a direct comparison is sorta moot :-). Their rock salt and rosemary is a happy thing. Hope you like them either way.
2nd the Mount Royal ones, and yes, WF carries them. They're best when fresh and the poppy seed is my pick. i dislike Siegels and Solly's bagels - too stodgy though I don't mind Solly's in a pinch.
When I visit Montreal, I always bring home a couple of dozen St. Viateur bagels. Nothing here substitutes but Mount Royal comes closest. St. Viateur ships too :-)
Love love love St. Viateur bagels (and Fairmont ones too!). Next time I go to Montreal I'm going to have to bring an extra suitcase to stuff full of bagels and smoked meat. Do you know how much the shipping cost is to order online?
Aside: I typed the address in wrong as "www.stviateurbagelS.com" (with an "s" at the end) and it automatically redirected to Mont Royal bagels. Clever business move on their part!