Oldest Chinese Restaurant in Bay Area

[estone888]

I'm trying to find the oldest continuously operating Chinese restaurant in the Bay Area. Quality doesn't matter, it's history I'm after. If it has been operated by the same family since it opened - all the better.

Also, if anyone has an idea of what might be the oldest continuously operating Chinese restaurant in the U.S., I'd love to find that out as well. Thanks.

[Gwyd23]

Google shows a comment that's no longer showing up here, about Yee Jun, a basement restaurant in SF's Chinatown that i used to go to in the '60s and early '70s. it changed hands and names by '78. as a hobby student of Chinese characters and language, i've been trying to find out what Yee Jun means in Cantonese (Yue), but to no avail. there was even a place with the same name in Toronto, but it's also changed hands and names. anybody have a clue? thanks!

[RobertLaughlin]

Tong Fong Low Restaurant in Oroville is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year. I find it amusing that there are so many Chinese restaurants in the Central Valley older than any in the Bay Area.

[Chandavkl]

I think Chinese restaurants are more of an institution in smaller towns and less likely to change names, styles etc. when sold. For example, I think Golden Chicken in Oxnard (1929) probably beats anything in Los Angeles.

[Ruth Lafler]

I think that's a good point. Restaurants of any kind become institutions in small towns.

[shanghaikid]

chinese restaurants in small towns are more institutionalized than you realize. typically, funds for opening businesses would come from benevelent associations, (wongs, lee's., hop sing, sap yup, etc).

not directly though. members in the association form "money clubs". an individual member can draw out the month's "pot" with a winning bid. same member is obligated to pay back "pot" $$ monthly until paid in full. since member in money club is also in association, chances of him running off are slim.

if he did ran off, his relatives usually are responsible for paying off the debt and erasing the "shame".

[RobertLaughlin]

We're straying awfully far from the purpose of this board: to discuss food.

[shanghaikid]

yep. had to put into context some remarks. my bad.

[hill food]

yeah but fascinating stuff. any links to an appropriate location/site would be interesting.

[shanghaikid]

doubt you can find substantive stuff online. the article ruth lafler referenced is an excellent overvew, thou a work in progress.
googling "anti-chinese legistation/activity".will get you wikipedia which combines random facts and comes out with a (sometimes wrong) speculated conclusion.

the best reference points are the ethnic studies departments (asian american, native american, chicao studies) at various universities.

"brothers under the skin" , carey mcwilliams, covers the migrant worker issue showing all migrants (chinese, japanese, mexican, filipino) were discriminated against. it wasn't just chinese.

[indigirl]

I must reiterate my above post from last year: read the book Driven Out:The Forgotten War Against Chinese Americans by Jean Pfaelzer.

Also check out this cool photo project: http://www.noplaceproject.com/index.html

& to keep my post on-topic about food: best bet at "Chinese & American" restaurants Out There is usually to order the "American" stuff. Hot turkey sandwich is my go-to :)

[shanghaikid]

thanx for the tip. see lots of literary awards in 2007.
re: chicken fried rice
-if chinese restaurant also sold turkey, some would put turkey in the chicken fried rice.

[Chandavkl]

IIRC best explanation was a semi-fictional work about a Chinese family in Minnesota from 20 to 30 years ago. Most interesting part was a description of how territories were carved up so there would be one, and only one Chinese restaurant in a particular small city.

[scoopG]

John Jung's 2010 memoir, "Sweet and Sour: Life in Chinese Family Restaurants" is a recent non-fiction addition.

[Chandavkl]

Just acquired that title but haven't read it yet. His two other works on life in the south were fascinating..

[Ruth Lafler]

This thread -- correctly or not -- was never about food. It was specifically about old Chinese restaurants, not the food they serve.

[soupçon]

A bit late, but I just spotted your comment and dug out Yee Jun's name. It was called 如珍酒樓 (ru zhen jiu lou in Mandarin). I think the Yee Jun/Ru Zhen means something like "treasured." I found the Chinese name in the amazing 1913 "International Chinese Business Directory" available for free on Google Books: http://goo.gl/9F1cC

[timeo]

I don't know what's the oldest in the Bay Area, but you should contact Heather Lee who is doing research on old Chinese restaurants in Providence, Rhode Island. Maybe she would know something:

http://artinruins.com/arch/?id=histor...

[chocolatetartguy]

There was an article in the Oakland Tribune Wednesday? about some of our more venerable restaurants. It did mention a Chinese place that I think dated from 1925. Might be on their website. I thought about this post but was too lazy to search for it.

[Robert Lauriston]

It mention's Wing's Chinese in SJ as one of the "relative youngsters."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_18485...

Kind of amazing that in 1973 there was nothing between The Van's and the bay.

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Wing's Chinese Restaurant
131 Jackson St, San Jose, CA 95112

[chocolatetartguy]

I grew up in the Bay Area midcentury and it's strange but I don't remember any old Chinese restaurants. We must of mostly gone to the city, but in the East Bay I only remember going to Wing Kong? on Shattuck near Addison and The Lantern in Oakland Ctown, where legend has it the Black Panthers held many a meeting. We may have been eating next to Huey, Bobby, Kathleen and Eldridge!

Even in San Francisco, the only place that seemed aged, was a little yum cha place in an alley near some basketball courts. I am thinking that Jackson Cafe (now closed) must have been there for a long time.

[Chandavkl]

The place by the basketball courts sounds like Hang Ah Tea Room. How it's survived to now is one of the great mysteries of our time. SF Chinatown is way ahead of LA Chinatown--oldest Chinese restaurant here only goes back to the 1970s.

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Hang Ah Tea Room
1 Pagoda Pl, San Francisco, CA

[Ruth Lafler]

The Silver Dragon in Oakland Chinatown has been around since my childhood in the '60s. The Yangtze River in Berkeley has been around since my parents were undergrads in the early '50s. I'll bet there are some old neighborhood Chinese-American restaurants. A few in Alameda I know have been around since the late '60s (China House, Bamboo Kitchen), probably earlier.

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Silver Dragon
835 Webster St, Oakland, CA 94607

[shanghaikid]

The Yangtze River in berkeley closed a while ago. dalian is now there.

[Ruth Lafler]

I googled and there were still listings for it so I assumed it was still there. Which is silly because I knew about Dalian, which has been open for several years.

[RWCFoodie]

Thanks chocolatetarguy for the Wing Kong reference:
Reading this thread and wondering if anyone remembered Wing Kong on Shattuck Ave in Berkeley - this was my first exposure to Chinese food circa 1950 or so! My grandmother would take me to lunch there on her shopping trips to Hink's Department Store. I fondly remember the egg foo young, big puffy fried shrimp and sweet & sour pork! Thanks grandma...

[artychokeasana]

Sort of related?

http://www.trinitycounty.com/joss.htm

The Joss House in Trinity County is the oldest continuosly used Chinese temple in California. It has been in the news recently as the state considers removing all the temple artifacts to Sacremento due to the budget crisis. Nothing to do with restaurants of course but interesting both in and of itself and in that this oldest continuosly running piece of American Chinese history is in remote Northern California.

[hill food]

this is the sort of topic-slide that I really really really like. (was I too vague?)

"The Dogs of Foo" I WILL have to suggest this name to musician friends.

[chocolatetartguy]

What about Eastern Bakery which has a cafe attached. Most of the places I remember going to in the 60's are now closed: Nam Yuen, Jackson Cafe, Sun Wah Kue. Eastern is still going strong and may have been there far longer than I can remember.

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Eastern Bakery
720 Grant Ave, San Francisco, CA 94108

[chocolatetartguy]

Found this on Yelp: "Eastern Bakery is, apparently, the oldest bakery in Chinatown. Signs in the bakeshop say that it's been around since 1924, surviving the Great Depression and WWII."

Don't actually remember eating at their cafe, but still have pleasant memories of their cha sieu bow, guy don beng and French doughnuts. I also remember that some of those little "stores" on the street corners (with wooden doors that unfolded to "close" the shop. They used to have cellopacks of late 50's Bowman football cards for sale along with all the other tourist trinkets.

[soupçon]

For a restaurant that has neither moved nor changed its name, it's probably Sam Wo, which also probably hasn't changed its appeaqance much in over 100 years.

A restaurant that has changed names and ownership but has, I believe, operated continuously since 1885 is Kam Lok on Washington Street. From 1885 to 1978 it was the beloved (by us hipsters) Yee Jun. The estimable Chili Bill Eichenger shares fond memories of Yee Jun (which more or less correspond to mine) in his blog (second paragraph):

http://www.thechilidog.net/2010/01/tw...

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Sam Wo Restaurant
813 Washington Street, San Francisco, CA 94108

Kam Lok
834 Washington St, San Francisco, CA 94108

[Chandavkl]

Probably a lot of locations in SF Chinatown have been continuously occupied by a Chinese restaurant from the post earthquake rebuilding period. Ditto for New York City Chinatown, dating from the late 19th Century. On the same name, same location test it sounds like Sam Wo and Hang Ah run one/two. Funny you mention Kam Lok because I consider that one of the pioneers of the new wave of Chinese food in the US and the transition from the old Toishanese brand of food to the new tastes out of Hong Kong first, then more recently other regions of China. I mean when Kam Lok opened people down here in L.A. would talk about Kam Lok and plan trips to SF just to eat there. My wife and I did that, and we ate there twice on our one day trip to SF.

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Sam Wo Restaurant
813 Washington Street, San Francisco, CA 94108

Kam Lok
834 Washington St, San Francisco, CA 94108

Hang Ah Restaurant
2130 Armory Dr, Santa Rosa, CA 95401

[Ruth Lafler]

When we had our chowdown at Kam Lok several years ago we ordered the $98 set menu. We'd ordered set menus all over Chinatown and most of them were virtually identical, but Kam Lok's included a dish we hadn't seen elsewhere: seafood and steamed tofu (a large leaf-lined bamboo steamer basket of diced seafood and vegetables over a layer of soft tofu). It was unusual and delicious.

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Kam Lok
834 Washington St, San Francisco, CA 94108

[openhelix]

Definitely not THE oldest, but prolly oldest south of SF is Wing's in San Jose. It opened in 1925 in what's now Japantown.

[CYL]

"Hittell's Handbook 0f Pacific Coast Travel," by John Shertzer Hittell had this account of San Francisco's leading Chinese Restaurant in 1885:

The Hang Fer Low Restaurant, on Dupont street, between Clay and Sacramento, is the Delmonico's of Chinatown. The second floor of this and other leading restaurants is set apart for regular boarders, who pay by the week or month. The upper floor, for the accommodation of the more wealthy guests, is divided into apartments by movable partitions, curiously carved and lacquered. The chairs and tables, chandeliers, stained window panes, and even the cooking utensils used at this restaurant were nearly all imported from China. Here dinner parties, costing from $20 to $100 for half a dozen guests, are frequently given by wealthy Chinamen. When the latter sum is paid, the entire upper floor is set apart for their accommodation, and the dinner sometimes lasts from 2 P. M. till midnight, with intervals between the courses, during which the guests step out to take an airing, or to transact business. Among the delicacies served on such occasions are bird's nest soup, shark's fins, Taranaki fungus (which grows on a New Zealand tree), Chinese terrapin, Chinese goose, Chinese quail, fish brains, tender shoots of bamboo, various vegetables strange to American eyes, and arrack,(a distilled liquor made of rice). Champagne, sherry oysters, chicken, pigeon, sucking pig, and other solids and liquids familiar to the European palate, also find their places at the feast. The tables are decorated with satin screens or hangings on one side; the balconies or smoking rooms are illuminated by colored lanterns; and Chinese music adds to the charms of the entertainment.

Hang Fer Low was located at 713 Dupont Street (now Grant Avenue) prior to the Great Earthquake of 1906, and moved to 725 Grant Avenue after the quake. Somewhere along the way the spelling of the name was changed to the risible Hang Far Low, and in the 1950's, perhaps tired of the low humor the name engendered, it changed its name to the Four Seas. It still exists today, but has long been overshadowed by other Chinatown restaurants.

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Four Seas
731 Grant Ave, San Francisco, CA 94108

[scoopG]

Great find, thanks CYL.

[yimster]

A few more oldies, Shanghai Low and Lamp of China. On Lock Sam in Stockton. Do not know if they are the oldest but all are from before WWII.

[ricepad]

On Lock Sam in Stockton opened in 1898.

[jason carey]

What about Sam Wo?

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Sam Wo Restaurant
813 Washington Street, San Francisco, CA 94108

[CYL]

I believe Sam Wo first opened in 1907, after the big earthquake.

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Sam Wo Restaurant
813 Washington Street, San Francisco, CA 94108

[The Librarian]

You might want to contact / visit the Chinese Historical Society in San Francisco's Chinatown.

"CHSA opened in its landmark Julia Morgan-designed Chinatown YWCA building in 2001. Founded in 1963, CHSA is the oldest and largest organization in the country dedicated to the documentation, study, and presentation of Chinese American history. Through exhibitions, publications, and educational, public programming, CHSA promotes the contributions and legacy of Chinese America. "

I've seen several exhibits there, including one of photographs of old Chinese restaurants throughout the US.
I'm sure they would have some useful information. Good luck!
http://www.chsa.org/

[estone888]

You're all founts of good information. Thank you so much.

[indigirl]

Those were probably my photos you saw -- the Mostly Mississippi show. Yes, CHSA is where it's at!

See also Jennifer 8 Lee's Fortune Cookie Chronicles http://www.fortunecookiechronicles.com/

Another good book about Chinese American history, though not specifically about restaurants/food, is Driven Out http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=...

[The Librarian]

That was a great collection of photographs. I really enjoyed the exhibit!

[indigirl]

Thank you! :)

[indigirl]

I'm curious to know why you're looking for this! Please share :)

[shanghaikid]

he's also posted the same question in the ny, la, and mountain states thread also.

[wolfe]

Mrv Stone is a mystery writer whose last book "The Living Room of the Dead" took place in Macau and Vladivostok. Perhaps looking for background for his next Ray Sharp thriller.

[estone888]

Just poking around for some new ideas. Constantly researching stuff that interests me. I was recently in Truckee and read a lot about the building of the railroad and that got me interested in the development of Chinese communities across the West.

[Ruth Lafler]

Well then the link wolfe posted about Locke should be right up your alley. The story of the Chinese in North American has been largely untold. It wasn't until I got to know Melanie Wong, for example, that I learned there were Chinese communities in California well before the gold rush. Here's a recent interesting article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article... And I recommend Ruthanne Lum McCann's "Thousand Pieces of Gold" (and the movie they made from it).

[scoopG]

Really? Where were these Chinese communities and what is the evidence and/or sources to claim that there were established Chinese communities in the USA well before "the Gold Rush?"

I'd love to see it! The SF Gate article you cite only places the Chinese in Monterey by the 1860's - and they were established there 11 years earlier!

It is known that Chinese sailors visited the US regularly and that Dutch trader/ambassador Andreas Everardus van Braaam Houckgeest (1739-1801) employed eight Chinese house servants in New York (and it is assumed later in Philadelphia, where he moved) before returning to the Netherlands prior to his death.

The earliest known Chinese documented in the USA that I have seen is in New York City in 1808 – when San Francisco was known as Yerba Buena. MoCA – the Museum of the Chinese in America claims that the first Chinese in the USA were in Baltimore but I have never seen their evidence.

There were three Chinese restaurants in San Francisco as well as a Chinese hotel in Monterey by September 1849. All documented by scholars Peter Kwong and Dusanka Miscevic (see below.)

Although there could be more material, it is not like there is a total dearth of information on the subject, including:

Corbett, Christopher. "Poker Bride: The First Chinese in the Wild West." Atlantic Monthly Press; New York, 2009.

Kwong, Peter and Miscevic, Dusanka. "Chinese America: The Untold Story of America’s Oldest New Community." The New Press; New York, 2005.

Tchen, John Kuo Wei. " New York Before Chinatown: Orientalism and the Shaping of American Culture, 1776-1882." Johns Hopkins University Press; Baltimore, 1999.

Tsui, Bonnie. "American Chinatown: A People’s History of Five Neighborhoods." Simon and Schuster; New York, 2009.

[scoopG]

The Ruthanne Lum McCann's "Thousand Pieces of Gold" book is the same story I assume told in Christopher Corbett's "Poker Bride." Still Polly Bemis was in the USA in the 1870's - not before the Gold Rush.

[Ruth Lafler]

Sorry, I was unclear -- was suggesting several different things to read about early Chinese in California. I didn't mean to suggest that those items pertained to the Chinese here before the Gold Rush. I've heard about the Chinese being here as early as the 1830s, but I can't find any references to confirm.

[scoopG]

I wonder what the California Historical Society has on this.

[hill food]

Locke is a fascinating place. check out "Bitter Melon: Inside America's Last Rural Chinese Town"
http://www.amazon.com/Bitter-Melon-Inside-Americas-Chinese/product-reviews/0930588584/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/09305...

[ML8000]

The first Chinese (recorded) came to the U.S. in the 1820s as merchants...you know trade was a big deal. Gold miners and labors followed. My great-grandfather was a gold miner. There's also speculations about Zheng He, who pre-dated Columbus.

[wolfe]

Undoubtedly Zheng He's first restaurant venture failed due excessively long supply lines and lack of advertising.

[chocolatetartguy]

Yeah, but he had a monopoly on Eastern spices unless those damn Norsemen were bringing in lutefisk.

[scoopG]

And you are basing your information on what sources?

The earliest I have seen evidence for Chinese residents in the USA is 1808 in NYC (see "Gotham: A History of New York City to 1898 by Edwin G. Burrows & Mike Wallace. Oxford University Press; NYC, 1999.)

Chinese sailors were known to have visited America in the 18th century but not likely to have remained. Direct trade with China was prohibited during the Colonial period. America's first trading ship to China, the Empress of China departed in 1784 and returned 15 months later.

I have read of no such claims that Admiral Zheng He ever visited the America's.

[wolfe]

Gavin Menzies "1421: The Year China Discovered America."
http://www.1421.tv/extract.htm

[Ruth Lafler]

My family member who is a Chinese historian thinks that book is ... less than credible.

[wolfe]

Next you will be denigrating "Chariots of the Gods? Unsolved Mysteries of the Past" by Erich von Däniken.

[scoopG]

Correct. No mainstream historian takes GM's "1421" book seriously.

[wolfe]

"They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
When he said the world was round
They all laughed when Edison recorded sound
They all laughed at Wilbur and his brother
When they said that man could fly
Who's got the last laugh now."

[scoopG]

I absolutely adore Gershwin but alas he was an artist, not an historian. To quote an actual historian (Robert Finlay):

"…Menzies attempt to rewrite world history is based on a hodgepodge of circular reasoning, bizarre speculation, distorted sources, and slapdash research. In reality, the voyages (Menzies) describes did not take place... and there is no evidence of the Chinese fleets in the Americas."

[wolfe]

Does Mousey's Root Beer and Salami Palace still exist?

[Gwyd23]

back when i still lived in San Jose in the mid-70s, the Sunday supplement had an article about how underwater archaeologists were exploring the wreck of an old Chinese junk in the Sacramento River delta from about that period, and how evidence had been discovered of a small Chinese settlement where they'd apparently intermingled with the Miwok, and how there's a statue of a Central Coast tribesman in China looking eastward across the ocean towards home. so put that in your jade pipe and smoke it (yes, one of those was found in the joint encampment done in classical Chinese style).

[soupçon]

It's more credible that Chinese monks explored the West coast of North America and sojourned in Mexico 1,000 year before Columbus' journey. http://is.gd/SeW4GA

[PolarBear]

Down here in the central valley Richard Wing's Imperial Dynasty restaurant was founded in Hanford's Chinatown in 1883. Here's some of the history:

http://www.princeofpinot.com/article/...

[soupçon]

Other than the name and the decor, there's little about it that's Chinese. It was strictly Continental when I ate there.

[PolarBear]

They closed half of the place in the 70s, iirc, and kept the euro centric menu with the CD name. Our last visit was in the 1980s on the same evening that the CA Supreme Court Justices were having an event. Recall tripping over my tongue on a trip to the loo seeing all of the old dustry rare wines sitting on the cupboards waiting to be served to the elite. The servers (Chinese) were a hoot, dinner and a show.

[cecig]

Read "On Gold Mountain" by Lisa See, a direct descendent of chinese immigrants who came to work in brothels , etc. Sacramento during the gold rush- fascinating look into local history .

[shanghaikid]

actually, the see saga centers around L.A. plot follows the elder see as he starts selling ladies undergarment and eventually furniture and curios from china, asia.

brothels are only incidental to the stories, not the main story line.

[CYL]

I believe the Hang Far Low is one of the oldest if not the oldest. Was at 713 Dupont Street before the 1906 eartnquake, moved to 725 Grant Avenue after. Became the Four Seas about 1950.

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Four Seas
731 Grant Ave, San Francisco, CA 94108

[Chandavkl]

Except that the name change to Four Seas coincided with the sale of the restaurant, so neither the name nor the ownership is continuous.

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Four Seas
731 Grant Ave, San Francisco, CA 94108

[Ruth Lafler]

According to this, it's Hang Ah Tearoom in Chinatown (opened in 1920): http://www.sfvisitor.com/taste/foodfi...

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Hang Ah Tea Room
1 Pagoda Pl, San Francisco, CA

[wolfe]

Al's in Locke was a Chinese restaurant but has been operating as a non Chinese restaurant for many years. Doesn't count but it's good local history.
http://www.locketown.com/als.htm

[vulber]

and still looks like it probably looked in 1920

[cecig]

.... and is in a wonderful old Delta Chinatown- don't miss the museum a couple of doors down from it too.
While you are in the area checkout Guisti's on Thornton road........ also a historic bar/restaurant though not chinese.