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Flour tortilla question

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Is anyone aware of any flour tortillas that are mezonos? I know it's a real long shot, but I figured if anyone knows, it would be someone here.

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  1. I don't think I've ever seen it, but it would be a good idea. Not everyone accepts the idea of mezonot breadstuff. But for those who do, I can imagine some very nice kiddush options. I think a baker might be able to market it as flavor option, with a sufficiently charismatic juice. Tomato? Acai berry?

    1 Reply
    1. re: AdinaA

      I was menu planning for an upcoming kiddush and that's how I ended up with tortillas. I know I could use corn, but then I've got the problem of heating them up since I don't particularly like the taste of room temp corn tortillas and they don't really go with the filling I was going to use.
      I could just go with flour and cause everyone to need to bench, but I thought I'd try to be nice about it. :-)

    2. There are many kosher tortillas out there, some even pas yisroel.
      Most are made of wheat but some are only corn. If that is the case, then you would make a shehakol.

      1. from my understanding liquid batters are mezonot... so all tortillas

        4 Replies
        1. re: teajoygreye

          I'm not sure your answer was complete, and I've never heard of the halacha you refer to, but either way, tortillas are made by rolling out regular dough, not from liquid batter. (Google any flour tortilla recipe.)

          1. re: queenscook

            Whoops, I've never made tortillas. That was according to one of the major bracha sites. However, as my husband points out - if they are fried and not baked, then they are not hamotzi automatically -- Only if you are eating quite a lot... just like the requirements for cake.

            Sorry, we're typically corn tortilla eaters... came across this when I was looking for a flour tortilla recipe that doesn't call for lard to try them out at home (found one).

            1. re: teajoygreye

              Quite a few of the national brands of flour tortillas are kosher. I buy Mission which has CRC.

              Our local rav says one must wash and do motzi on flour tortillas by the way, and we live in a community which has a high percentage of Mexican (ashkenazi if that makes a difference) and South American members.

              PS to OP...there are several flavored and colored tortillas on the market that are kosher. Mostly like spinach and jalapeno.

              1. re: teajoygreye

                Flour (and corn) tortillas are cooked on a dry griddle.

          2. A bit off topic, but i was just at a shiur less than an hour ago given by Rav Moshe Heinemann (Star-K) where someone asked him what Brocho to make on "wraps". He said that since wraps do not have "holes" (i.e., is not "spongy", like bread) the correct Brocho is "Mezonos".

            2 Replies
            1. re: hanistor

              If I'm understanding the posts correctly, it sounds as if Rav Heinemann and SoCal Mother's rav are contradicting each other. Unless the Star-K defines wraps and tortillas as two completely different items.

              Sigh. So it seems my original question still stands.

              1. re: rockycat

                You understood correctly. I was also told by my rabbi at college that wraps are mezonot. The answer as always is to check with your own Rabbi, or if the simcha is not at your shul, then the shuls rabbi.

            2. It's really hard to define bread. Bread is - what?, Water, flour, and....? Say yeast and you can't make motzei over matzah. I challenge anyone on this board to come up with a tight definition of bread.

              A really traditional flatbread, like Yemenite soft matzah, is not "spongy. It lacks yeast and is really solid. But in the Middle East where bread is the staff of life food historians and foodies know that fresh flatbreads baked in the traditional manner may or may be yeast-risen. Indeed, most believe that yeastless flatbread is the oldest kind. And Genesis is a really old book. There's an interesting literature on what "bread" was like in the year the Israelites left Egypt.

              Some poskim rule that if the liquid is not water, it's not bread. Others don't rule this way. (I, personally, don't buy into the mezonot roll idea.) Challah can be made with flour, apple juice, yeast, oil and eggs. Or it can be made with flour, water, sugar, yeast, oil and eggs. Indeed, this is the recipe for the challah that most Americans eat on Shabbos. Compared to the challah of yesteryear, it is very rich. Some sticklers insist on traditional white flour, yeast, water challah. They scorn modern challa, disdaining it as "cake".

              Others poskim rule according to the role in the meal. Some, for example, poskin that if you eat 2 slices of pizza, it's a meal and you make motzei. But a bite of pizza is not a meal, no motzei.

              Or Think about crackers made with just flour and water. Suppose, for example, that at a cocktail party you spread some caviar on a dainty Rakussen's Tea Matzo. Take one bite only. Do you make motzei? It's matzah, but it's not playing the role of bread in a meal.

              Suppose, however, that I serve banana bread and soup for dinner. i make the banana bread with water, flour and lots of good stuff like chopped dates, mashed bananas, butter, eggs, spices and sugar. If you make motzei and eat several slices it is playing the role of bread in the meal.

              But I could bake the same recipe in a bundt pan, serve it as a snack and call it cake, and you wold have made mezonot.

              What I actually do every week is make a rich yeast dough, make most of it into loaves of challah, and some of the same dough into a bubka eaten as mezonot before heading out to Shacharit. Our posek regards the role being played inthe meal as definitive. But my point is that there is no significant difference between the rich doughts most of us prefer for challah and the bubka dough, or the dough used for yeast-risen rugelach.

              I have never heard a posek define bread in a way that makes it possible to easily separate crackers from bread, or sweet breads from bubka.

              This was all undoubtedly easier in the old days, back then men were men, bread was bread, and nobody put oil and sugar in the challah or sold Tea Matzos.

              1 Reply
              1. re: AdinaA

                Sefardim make mezonot on matzha when it's not Passover. I once lived with a guy who would eat matzha sandwiches year round to avoid having to wash.