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NFNS 6/26/11 spoilers

Not really surprised that Justin with the holes in his ears (B? or D?) went. A good cook but not able to perform on camera. Penny is fixing to be the most unliked person on the show. Orchid's personality is decreasing as is Whitney's.

Your thoughts?

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  1. Penny referred to herself as a cougar. I don't think a woman should say that about herself, that's something that should be bestowed upon her by someone else.

    I agree that Penny is not all that likeable on this program. Editing can have a lot to do with it too. I wonder what she is thinking now as it is being telecast compared to how she felt about it as they were producing the show. A couple years ago there was an obnoxious contestant on TNFNS that almost made it to the finals, Debbie Lee. Did you know she is Korean?

    5 Replies
    1. re: John E.

      A couple years ago there was an obnoxious contestant on TNFNS that almost made it to the finals, Debbie Lee. Did you know she is Korean?
      Had to laugh at that one. She wasn't really obnoxious but she did always tell people she's Korean.

      1. re: John E.

        The producers LOVE having Penny in the mix. The longer she is there, the more the controversy; the more we talk about her; the longer these threads. She is the internal conflict that keeps the show interesting. They cast her because of her arrogance and attitude. She won't win, but she keeps rating up.

        1. re: chicgail


          1. re: chicgail

            I know this but she is becoming too much for me. I almost don't want to watch it anymore since she is such a total turn off.

            1. re: chicgail

              Makes you want to get up and SMACK the TV - I love it!

          2. I'll comment on this thread since it was started first. I really thought the other Justin was gonna go home. His food wasn't good for either round and they don't seem to like anything about him other than his glasses. Plus they talked about 10 boxes of quinoa before going to the store too, don't know how he made that mistake. The tall Justin was one of the better cooks, altho last nite's dish didn't really cut it. I was surprised they thought Mary Beth was so great. I agreed with Orchid's view of Chris "meaning well" and he seems to be getting it together a little bit.

            Why does John E. think Debbie from last year was obnoxious? She was a little over bubbly so if you don't like that, but I'd never call her obnoxious. Unless I'm confusing her with someone else.

            What was up with those weird long forks they were using? At first I thought it was chopsticks but I don't think so.

            14 Replies
            1. re: Joanie

              I like Orchid and how she dealt w/ Chris--there was nothing like the cattiness between other contestants. She seems even keeled enough to have her own show. I don't like Mary Beth, either--a little too much like Melissa, previous winner with the mom cooking and a little too forced overenthusiastic.

              LOL, I thought the same thing about those forks! It's like they were looking for a fondue or something.

              1. re: Joanie

                Because Debbie was obnoxious and backstabbing, she was just more subtle about it than Penny is.

                1. re: rasputina

                  Please remind me what she did that was obnoxious and backstabbing. I don't pay 100% attention to these shows but don't remember her seeming like that at all.

                  1. re: Joanie

                    I don't think Debbie was outwardly obnoxious, but I remember that Debbie flat out lied about stuff, that's where the backstabbing comment comes from, I'm sure. I can't remember the circumstances, though. Just googled and quickly came up with this: http://foodnetworkhumor.com/2009/06/f...

                    I was sorry that Penny didn't go home last night.

                    1. re: LurkerDan

                      Some links:
                      (note: "asian woman" or "asian lady" in various posts/threads refer to her even if her name was not specifically used)

                      On TWoP, start with post #6215 on TNFNS thread (try this as an entry point: http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.c... ) and go on from there. :-)

                      1. re: LurkerDan

                        Yes, I remember some flat out lying where she was caught on camera doing what she claimed she didn't and that she was never called on it by the judges. I can't remember the exact circumstance now a year + later though.

                      2. re: Joanie

                        Maybe I should have described her as annoying rather than obnoxious. It annoyed me that on every camera challenge she told us she was Korean (she sometimes said it more than once in 60 seconds..'Yes Debbie, we can see that you are Korean. I probably would not have found it annoying if she were likeable, but I didn't see her in that way. She had trouble fessing up when asked direct questions. The angel food cake was one example, another was late in the show when she was listing the ingredients in her dishes for the judges, she forgot to put an ingredient in her dish, but told them it was in the dish anyway. There are other examples but I cannot come up with them right now. I think her problem was less about her being dishonest and more about her inability to admit her mistakes and have herself look bad.

                        1. re: John E.

                          There was also one time where she explained away tough meat by saying that koreans liked to eat their meat tough.

                          1. re: LurkerDan

                            I remember that, too. Tough meat is not good in any cuisine. Another cheftestant on Top Chef described his dish as "toothsome" when he undercooked it.
                            That didn't fly either.

                            1. re: monavano

                              Koreans do like their meat tough though.

                              1. re: joonjoon

                                If so, that would explain why the beef galbi I've gotten at more than one place has been so chewy and, yes, tough. I find it largely inedible and when I do get it (rarely) I have to pick through it to get SOME edible meat off the ribs while shaking my head at being charged so much for such nasty meat even if the marinade is tasty.

                                1. re: huiray

                                  I'm not sure what you're asking Huiray - I said Koreans like their meat tough and you asked me to explain why Korean meat is tough? Aren't we in agreement?

                                  By the way, the meat should be chewy, not inedible.

                                  1. re: joonjoon

                                    jj, I was just remarking on the meat being tough, not asking a question of you - so yes, we are in agreement. (Perhaps you misinterpreted the common expression "Really?" that I used) As for the "degree of chewiness" the galbi I've gotten on more than one occasion was truly so chewy as to be pretty inedible - to me, anyway.

                                    1. re: huiray

                                      I have no idea but I swear the first time I read your post it didn't make sense to me. :D

                                      But yes, Koreans really don't like their meat to be tender. My mom tells me that no one used to like tenderloin because they thought it was too mushy. I always got the sense that Koreans like to *battle* with their food, practically everything on the menu is either molten lava hot, icy cold, bright red and spicy, super salty, or ridiculously chewy.

                  2. I think Justin with the glasses should have gone home. The judges keep saying that he is a smart guy, but he has done nothing to show he is smart or clever. In fact he is kind of dull and air-headed. The only reason they think he is smart is because of the glasses! I was rooting for Justin with the ears; however, his closing remarks really turned me off to him. They almost seemed out of character, maybe the stress got to him.

                    3 Replies
                    1. re: AmblerGirl

                      I agree. I can't remember anything about Justin with the glasses but nothing he did seemed wonderful. And, I had liked Justin with the holes until his closing remarks. Does he realize he auditioned for Food Network Stars, and not Chopped? I can't imagine how he'd deal w/ the persnickety nature of being a brand. I think FTV knew that, too.

                      1. re: chowser

                        While Glasses Justin is struggling with his inspiration for food, there is at least some inkling that he has the personality to lead a show.

                        Scary Justin hasnt offered anything in terms of star power; while his food has generally been above board, he's had several chances to shine in front of camera. Instead, yesterday, we saw exactly the same presentation he had given before. I agree with the decision.

                        Penny seems to think she's on Survivor - Food Island. The level of cattiness and paranoai has reached a level where it is distracting (both for her and the viewer).

                        1. re: ooroger

                          I don't think either Justin was going to win. The only question was who would last longer.

                          If Penny doesn't get along with anyone, how will she deal w/ being friendly and personable to the general public? If Food TV knows anything, it's how to pick someone who is likeable to the general public and that's not Penny.

                    2. All I can say is I can't wait for next week after that preview with Jyll telling Penny she is the most entitled person she has ever met. You go girl!

                      24 Replies
                      1. re: rasputina

                        I'm just shallow enough to not wish for Jyll to win just because of the way she spells her name.

                        "Jyll, your name is Jill, quit doodling". (Maybe I should change my name to Jawn).

                        1. re: John E.

                          Shouldn't we blame her parents for that though?

                          1. re: rasputina

                            agreed rasputina. not her fault.
                            but also agree that the spelling is painful. ;)

                            1. re: AMFM

                              The way Jyl bothers you (whether that was her spelling or her parents' spelling), but Vic Vegas is ok? Methinks Vic Vegas is not on that dude's birth certificate.

                              1. re: chicgail

                                By the way, the Vig Vegas thing bugs me too. I posted that somewhere on these threads early on, but I do kind of like Vic. If he wins, it would not surprise me if he loses the 'Vegas'. Remember 'Aarti Paarti'?

                                1. re: John E.

                                  I like Aarti Party, she is coming back with her third set of shows since she won last year.

                                  I liked the original spelling better though.

                                  1. re: rasputina


                                    1. re: rasputina

                                      I've never seen it. I suppose if I were actually interested in watching it, I would seek it out. I don't watch the shows of the last three winners, they just do not interest me. I wouldn't mind an actual so-called 'stand and stir' show in primetime, but apparently they don't get high enough ratings or lack viewers not interested in the actual cooking rather than eating like most of the evening 30 minute shows on FN.

                                      1. re: John E.

                                        oh - it just wasn't the topic. think vic vegas sounds ridiculous too. :)

                                    2. re: John E.

                                      His name as clearly listed on his foodnetwork,com profile page is Vic "Vegas" Moea. "Vegas" is his nickname, incorporated into his name in the usual format seen when someone has such a moniker. I don't know where people get the idea from that 'Vic Vegas' is his entire actual name.

                                      1. re: huiray

                                        I'm not certain anyone actually thought Vegas was his true surname.

                                        1. re: John E.

                                          Then lets all ease up on the 'Vic Vegas' meme.

                                          1. re: huiray

                                            I just re-read this thread and did not see a single post where someone indicated they thought Vegas was his real last name, let alone 'going on'.

                                            1. re: John E.

                                              Various posters, including yourself, had been referring to him as 'Vic Vegas' and saying how his name, 'Vic Vegas', was irritating. A poster above opined that 'Vic Vegas' does not appear on his birth certificate. Yet his name, as posted on foodnetwork itself, is Vic "Vegas" Moea, which is significantly different from saying his name is 'Vic Vegas' and making comments upon his name as so cited, namely 'Vic Vegas'. In normal usage in the Western world if someone's entire name is cited as 'Vic Vegas' his last name would then be taken to be 'Vegas'.

                                              1. re: huiray

                                                That may be how Food Network is posting his name on their site, but he is referred to on the show as Vic Vegas and, in fact, has called himself that. Without doing further research, why would any viewer think he called himself or was known as anything other than that?

                                                1. re: chicgail

                                                  You have a point, but I would counter that contestants on the show, just as in previous/other "reality-so-called-cooking" shows like Top Chef etc, have been referred to onscreen in that typical faux-friendly style as 'Angelo' (TC), 'Justin', 'Penny', 'Kenny' (TC) etc - so why shouldn't 'Vic Vegas' be thought of as the moniker for him equivalent to the single-word monikers for the others e.g. 'Penny' ? I don't recall Angelo (TC) ever being referred to on-screen as 'Angelo Sosa'. Has Penny been referred to on-screen as 'Penny Davidi' ? To me the issue is that the impression I get from the discussion is that 'Vic Vegas' is his only name when, of course, it is not true. (There was also a query further below as to if 'Vic Vegas' had a real name)

                                                  I would venture that 'Vic Vegas' has an equivalent in the moniker 'Kenny The Beast' (TC) that Kenny Gilbert acquired on TC. For myself, I wouldn't assume that the moniker I hear on these reality shows are their complete/full names but would look on their profile pages almost as a matter of course for their actual names.

                                                  ::Shrug:: T'is all a storm in a teacup, the arm-waving above. Not earth-shattering. :-)

                                                  1. re: huiray

                                                    Yep. Tempest in a teapot. It was me who was confused by the moniker.

                                                2. re: huiray

                                                  You seem to be taking this more seriously than I intended. My point is that it disn't seem like anyobody on this thread, chicgaill included, thought Vegas was his actual last name.

                                                  1. re: John E.

                                                    Yep, I sure did. I knew it wasn't the name he was born with, but I really thought it was the name he used. Apparently I am not only naive and gullible, I am a bit of a dweeb. I hang my head before you.

                                                    1. re: chicgail

                                                      Apparently, it 'is' the name that he uses. I used to know a lot of guys in the broadcasting business that used 'airnames' and it is amazing the number of people that think it is their real name. I know one guy who actually ended up legally changing his name to his radio name.

                                  2. re: rasputina

                                    Maybe, but I have a cousin who spells her name Beki (Becky) and it was not her parents doing. I was mostly attempting humor with my post.

                                  3. re: John E.

                                    It's not the spelling of the name that bothers me, it's her catering company name "Jyllicious Bites" that does. She had no choice in her name but she must have thought that was sooo clever.

                                  4. re: rasputina

                                    Was that who she was talking to? I couldn't tell for sure. i thought they edited it that way on purpose.

                                    1. re: rasputina

                                      You don't know that Jyll is saying that to Penny. Could be clever editing.

                                    2. I think Penny is grotesque.

                                      She's too busy trashing Mary Beth and deriding the others to see, smell or taste burned cheese ??

                                      6 Replies
                                      1. re: C. Hamster

                                        That is weird. How is everyone able to smell/taste the burnng cheese but Penny?

                                        1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                          Maybe her ego was too big for her to think she might not have a great dish. Did you see the shocked look on her face when she was told that--priceless. Everyone else probably laughed about it behind her back and watched her fail.

                                          1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                            It also LOOKED burned. They showed a shot of it after the "WHATS BURNING?" yelling and her cheese sauce was discolored.

                                            Burning or even browning cheese smells very distinctive. Good cooks would identify it as cheese.

                                            Since she didn't think it tasted burned, she didn't taste it enough when she was making it.

                                            I was sorry not to see her go.

                                            1. re: Worldwide Diner

                                              Yeah, and what about previous episodes in which when something got ruined, the contestant freaked because they'd have to remake it or substitute? Funny how Penny didn't have that situation. That was a *TON* of cheese sauce she'd have to remake. Makes you think.

                                              Also, rule of kitchen is to taste everything that comes out of it.

                                              1. re: pdxgastro

                                                "Also, rule of kitchen is to taste everything that comes out of it."

                                                That's why it was laughable when Penny accused Chris of throwing her under the bus by pointing out that someone said the cheese sauce was burnt. Whether someone said it or not is irrelevant. She should have known. Who makes mac and cheese and doesn't try the cheese sauce? I think it's the reason I make mac and cheese!

                                                1. re: chowser

                                                  Yes, as in 'would you like some macaroni with that cheese sauce?' and 'would you like some broccoli with that cheese sauce?'.

                                          2. I've never heard of burnt mac and cheese! Burnt is never subtle. Burnt is a throw it out or start all over kind of deal. If Penny's palate is that bad, she shouldn't be on TV teaching people how to cook.
                                            Justin was as interesting as watching paint dry. Worse yet, he has zero self awareness and was totally closed off. The fact that he was gobsmacked at his dismissal says it all.
                                            Loved how Tush just kept rolling along, like, OK.....BYE!!!!!! No coddling. No recriminations. No hesitation. Just hasta la vista baby!

                                            3 Replies
                                            1. re: monavano

                                              Wait! Who is Tush? Oh!!! Bob Tuschman!

                                              Was it he who likened "gauge" Justin to a waiter? Didn't realize it until he said it, but that was spot on! I too, was disappointing by how he handled it.

                                              1. re: Shrinkrap

                                                Yeah, when he mentioned the waiter thing, he hit the nail on the head. Justin was a big baby at the end.

                                                But did anyone else notice those weird long forks? Is this just something the sticks of Boston hasn't seen?

                                                1. re: Joanie

                                                  Those forks were ridiculous! I kept looking like, wth????

                                            2. Penny is her own worst enemy. A couple weeks ago there was NOTHING on TV so I ended up watching the Chefography episode about Guy Fieri. During the part about his being a contestant on TNFNS someone made a comment (Bob or Suzie) that during the critique phase of each challenge, Guy listened to them. Guy said that after each critique he listed out their comments and studied them to see how he could improve. Penny doesn't take criticism well - even when deserved - and she doesn't listen.

                                              She's said from the beginning she has an agenda, and that is to win. She's holding so dear to her agenda that she can't see that perhaps her agenda needs some tweaking in order to work. Penny's take-no-prisoners approach to the show hasn't done much but alienate her from her fellow contestants and generate a WHOLE bunch of negative comments in on-line forums. She's got to know, somewhere, deep, down, underneath the 5lbs of cosmetics, that the Food Network isn't going to hire someone with that much negative baggage. Two words...high maintenance.

                                              7 Replies
                                              1. re: DiningDiva

                                                HA! Penny should focus on the kind of pancakes you eat, not the pancake on her fact. Her personality is atrocious- who wants to spend time with that?

                                                1. re: monavano

                                                  Lisa Garza was kind of unlikeable at first, but she really could cook and by the end of the show I was kind of rooting for her to win even tho' it was pretty clear the judges were all for Aaron.

                                                  Pretty sure my position on Penny won't change if she stick around much longer :-D

                                                  1. re: DiningDiva

                                                    She was a sharp cookie. Never warmed up the the heels in the kitchen tho!

                                                    1. re: DiningDiva

                                                      On the Good ChNnel they had sort of a 'best of...' TNFNS and they showed clips of previous shows. Lisa Garza apparently is doing ok with a restaurant in Dallas. They also showed her singing, I had forgotten that. I too dudn't take to her at first with all the fashiony diva stuff but thought she was ok at the end.

                                                      1. re: DiningDiva

                                                        I agree, Lisa was a bit of a diva at first but by the end I liked her. She wasn't my first choice, but I would have at least given her show a chance.

                                                        1. re: DiningDiva

                                                          I didn't like her a lot but like her even less after she was on Chopped and talked about how everyone told her she should have won her season. And, she proceeded to fail miserably in the first round, only plated deviled eggs and used nothing from the basket. I thought it was a riot, though, when the judges tried to make it seem like there was some shadow of a doubt that she might not go on by praising her deviled eggs profusely.

                                                      2. re: DiningDiva

                                                        I agree with the previous poster that she thinks she on survivor. She is so unlikeable that even if she managed to win her show would be a flop.

                                                      3. Didn't see the very end. I tried recording this thing twice and it cut off the last few minutes both times.

                                                        What the...?

                                                        12 Replies
                                                        1. re: meadandale

                                                          Hey, me too. I thought it was my DVR being weird. In fact, had to come here to see who got cut.

                                                          1. re: pine time

                                                            It was a great ending. It was like "boom, you're gone".
                                                            Tushy used the axe!

                                                            1. re: monavano

                                                              Yea, usually when it comes time to send someone home out of three, the first name they say is the first one to be safe. I guess they decided to change it up to be more unpredictable. I think they mDe the right decision because that particular Jason (Justin?) could cook, but he could not ad lib his way out of a wet paper bag. Many years ago I was a radio announcer. I had to help train in a young man right out of broadcasting school. They stole his money because he too could not ad lib, not even his own name, he had to write everything down.

                                                            2. re: pine time

                                                              Same here . . . also recorded it twice (my guide showed it was an hour show) and missed the ending. It was an hour and a half, so I'll be recording it yet a third time!

                                                            3. re: meadandale

                                                              Same thing here. I missed the whole burnt cheese incident and the elimination. Recording it later in the week to get to see the last segment.

                                                              1. re: meadandale

                                                                I think Food Network screwed up. The TV listings had it as a 60-minute show but it was 90 minutes.

                                                                1. re: NYCkaren

                                                                  Yeah, I reset my DVR for a re-broadcast and manually said add 30 extra minutes. It's SUPPOSED to know the length of the show, but it goofs sometimes.

                                                                  1. re: NYCkaren

                                                                    That explains it. My second attempt to record it was also 60 minutes, but I've now found a 90 minute episode later in the week.

                                                                  2. re: meadandale

                                                                    My tivo thought it was only an hour, luckily I was watching it with only a 30 minute delay to FF past commercials so when I was done, I just put it on live tv and rewound it back to see the final 1/2 hour.

                                                                    1. re: meadandale

                                                                      Our recording cut off before the last grouping presented their food... there was some kind of mix-up between the time that the tivo thought the show ended, and the time that it actually DID end. :( So frozen-faced Justin went home? Not surpised. He was so wooden in front of the camera that you could have told the audience it was Pinnochio up there.

                                                                      1. re: Kajikit

                                                                        happened to me too ! :(

                                                                        1. re: pitagirl

                                                                          Anybody know if the next episode is also 1 1/2 hours? I'm getting my DVR replaced tomorrow--just too many of these kinds of flaky things happening!

                                                                    2. Does 'Vic Vegas' have a real name?

                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                      1. re: Withnail42

                                                                        His name is Vic Moea. He is an executive chef for the kitchen at a Las Vegas hotel. Do not confuse him with Vegas Vic. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegas_Vic

                                                                      2. How is it possible that pretty much every "finalist" sucks and has almost no camera personality?

                                                                        14 Replies
                                                                        1. re: joonjoon

                                                                          Because they've dumbed down the channel so far they're now playing to the lowest common denominator.

                                                                          1. re: joonjoon

                                                                            Yeah, I realized the only reason I watch is because I want to see Penny not do well.

                                                                            Does anyone LOVE any of the contestants or wants to see any of their shows? This is why the next food network star winner usually isn't the next star.

                                                                            1. re: chowser

                                                                              And because no one watches their shows they have been reduced to shilling products for the FTV sponsors in ads that are force fed to the audience multiple times during a show. Tired of seeing Melissa whip up something using Johnsonville sausages and Aarti giving us a "tour" of what we missed at the South Beach Food/Wine Festival. The "star" is The Next Food Network" show, not the winner

                                                                              1. re: chowser

                                                                                I don't think anyone wants to see any of their shows. I think people watch because this 'contest' it is such a train wreck.

                                                                                1. re: Withnail42

                                                                                  But, at the end, Food Network has to showcase an unlikeable/unwatchable person and put money behind that. You'd think they'd have a vested interest in finding another Guy Fieri, and not just some early morning, fill in the time slop bland personality. We can all walk away from the train wreck but FTV is stuck with the crash.

                                                                                  1. re: chowser

                                                                                    I bet if they had not gotten Fieri out of the second season TNFNS program likely would have ended a while ago. They're hoping lightening will strike twice and so far it has not happened.

                                                                                    1. re: John E.

                                                                                      I disagree. The show itself is very successful, and through the show they create/develop talent that they can use to plug in holes. While sure, they'd love to land another Fieri, they have done just fine with many of the people who have won or been finalists. Remember, it's not just the shows that they host, it's having recognizable faces for the challenge shows they have, for "the best thing I ever ate", etc. I think creating a "stable" of cheap, generally likable, recognizable faces for their network is one of the goals of the show, and for that it has been successful.

                                                                                      1. re: LurkerDan

                                                                                        You mean like Amy Finley?

                                                                                        1. re: John E.

                                                                                          So, I'm wrong because one winner of one season decided she didn't want to be on TV, and declined to do a second season?

                                                                                          1. re: LurkerDan

                                                                                            Not necessarily. But it is my opinion that the only reason TNFNS is still on is because they are really hoping for another Fieri. I realize they have programming hours to fill, but if he is taken out of the equation, I believe there are better ways to find suitable hosts while you do not. It's not a big deal.

                                                                                            1. re: John E.

                                                                                              What is the revenue or viewership for TNFNS compared to DDD?

                                                                                              lists NFNS at .9, a bit below Swamp People, and well below Ice Road Truckers. (last Sunday). DDD on Wed. is .4 Chopped does a bit better on Tuesday (.5). Extreme Cuisine also appears on these lists.

                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                I don't know specifics about revenue or viewership for TNFNS vs DDD. I do know that first run episides of DDD earn the highest ratings on the network.

                                                                                    2. re: chowser

                                                                                      That's why they give these "winners" undesirable time slots like Sunday mornings to see if they can attract and build audiences.

                                                                                      1. re: chicgail

                                                                                        Aren't those Sunday morning winner cooking shows based on their own ideas and produced in house? That might even apply to Guy's cooking show. In contrast shows like Outrageous are developed and produced by outside production companies, and NFNS runner up was hired as host. DDD is also an outside production.

                                                                                        For that matter NFNS itself is an outside production.

                                                                              2. His attitude was pretty crappy upon being told he was going home.

                                                                                Glad to see him go. Couldn't see him carrying a show on his own.

                                                                                Penny's next, God willin' and the crick don't rise.

                                                                                15 Replies
                                                                                1. re: jmckee

                                                                                  He made the mistake that many do, he thought it was a cooking competition. So he was shocked to be sent home because he knew he was a better cook than most on the show, and thought that would carry him through a few rounds until he got the camera thing down. But it's not really a cooking competition, how well you cook is just one part of the whole package.

                                                                                  1. re: LurkerDan

                                                                                    Cooking skill is one of the less important parts of this competition, at that.

                                                                                    If you cook well but aren't good in front of the camera, your fate will be the same as Justin's - they'll ax you as soon as you make something less-than-stellar - basically as soon as they have an excuse to do so and no one else f(&*ed up so egregiously that they absolutely have to go for the sake of the show's credibility.

                                                                                    But if you are good on TV but a poor cook, they'll look for reasons to keep you around, and when you finally do make something delicious 2/3 of the way through the season (even a blind squirrel...), they'll talk about it like it's some great turnaround, like you're destined for greatness now that you've added 'making edible food' to your repertoire.

                                                                                    1. re: cowboyardee

                                                                                      Isn't that the way that chowhounders judge TV cooks? I see lots of rants about TV personas, and few raves about recipes or cooking skills or knowledge.

                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                        TV cooks only have to be good actors/actresses when you come right down to it. They can be given the recipe, taught what to do. I think the whole contest, based on cooking skills, is misleading. The problem w/ TV cooks, in general, is that they're not chefs. Those who are, say Ming Tsai, Jacques Pepin, Mario Batali are given more respect for their recipes/cooking skills/knowledge. Sandra Lee, not so much.

                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                          Never said it wasn't. Being telegenic seems to be the most important part of being a TV cooking personality, whether the viewer is on CH or not. Example - Rachel Ray has millions of adoring fans. while her bona fides as a cook aren't really much more impressive than my own (I'm not complaining, though I believe we've had this conversation in another thread). Contrast that against Chopped - clear evidence that there is no shortage of talented, qualified, capable cooks who are terrible on camera and should never be given their own show. On camera, Thomas Keller comes off as cold and aloof; Charlie Trotter comes off as arrogant and surly. Regardless of their skills, their achievements, or how much those who work with them closely might like and respect them, these guys aren't getting TV shows anytime soon.

                                                                                          I do think that people on CH tend to be a little more critical of a celebrity 'chef's' lack of credentials or cooking skills than the general TV audience is. Certainly I am. But it still is and always will be secondary to whether the person is watchable in the first place.

                                                                                    2. re: jmckee

                                                                                      His attitude was crappy and he looked like a Vulcan. Mr. Spock's heavily tattooed son.

                                                                                      1. re: NYCkaren

                                                                                        LOL everytime I saw him I thought of Aladdin.

                                                                                        1. re: NYCkaren

                                                                                          You are so right!

                                                                                          1. re: NellyNel

                                                                                            i kinda thought he was cute. i confess. he may've been, had he gotten it together (and i'm not convinced he couldn't have) the one i'd be most likely to watch. he could definitely cook. he knew food and fish and taking care of it/butchering, etc. things i could learn since i'm a decent cook but fish scares me. and he looked unique - unlike anything they've got on now but not cheesy and over the top like vic or the other justin or penny or maribeth who all come off as stereotypes - like paula deen or guy or the neely's or sandra lee. obviously what they like, but i just like smart cool people. he was it for me. oh well.

                                                                                            1. re: AMFM

                                                                                              I read/posted this thread before I actually watched the episode.

                                                                                              After reading some of the comments, after his elimination, I was expecting to see a big meltdown, a hissy fit, and some bleeps!

                                                                                              I saw nothing of the kind...ok he was shocked and upset...but nothing like some of some of the comments here suggested.
                                                                                              I'm wondering if some of his exit interveiw was edited for the repeat?

                                                                                              1. re: NellyNel

                                                                                                I thought he sounded fairly bratty and assumed that's what others thought. There was no meltdown but he certainly didn't make a graceful exit.

                                                                                                1. re: Joanie

                                                                                                  Exactly. it was one of those sullen "really?" kind of reactions. No class at all -- but looking at him you knew that.

                                                                                                  1. re: jmckee

                                                                                                    How could you tell by looking at him that he had no class? I thought he was full of himself at the end, but it had to do w/ his demeanor, not his appearance. If he appeared on TV, the way he did off camera, he might be the one contestant I'd watch. Cooking, butchering, fish monger. Interesting concept.

                                                                                                2. re: NellyNel

                                                                                                  Nah, just disappointing because I liked him, and expected something.... likable!

                                                                                                  1. re: Shrinkrap

                                                                                                    Got cha.

                                                                                                    I kind of liked him too...but he obviously was clueless about how bad he really was in front of a camera!!

                                                                                        2. CC is showing a 'Best of NFNS' - a history and behind the scene look at the series.