Pinot Noir Price France

[Rella]

If I am requesting a recommendation for bottle of wine costing $20-$25 vs. $20-$30 from a wine seller, do you think that I will have many more possibilities for a good tasting bottle. I am never sure whether to up my price another $5 for a better bottle; having bought some pretty bad-tasting ones at $25.

[pinotho]

yes, you should broaden your range by another 5 dollars. Look for the appellations of Cote du Nuits-Villages and Cote du Beaune-Villages. Good luck, hope you have a good wine merchant.

[Maximilien]

There are bad tasting wines at every price ...

There are also pinot noir from other regions in France, for example look for Saumure (Loire) or from pinot noir wines from Jura or Alsace.

They are different but still very good.

Max.

[zin1953]

The problem is that there is NO ANSWER to your query . . .

There are $20 bottles that you will enjoy the aroma, the taste, the character -- everything! -- MORE than you will a $30 bottle. The reverse is also true. The same can be said for a $20 vs. $40 comparison, and even a $20 vs. $200 bottle! It all depends upon YOUR taste buds, your palate preferences . . .

In other words, there are GREAT and BAD tasting wines at EVERY price point, and price is no guarantee of "greatness." Decide how much you want to spend, and then look to the producer, look to the importer, look to the appellation, and to the vintage . . . AND make sure you are dealing with a KNOWLEDGABLE wine merchant!

Cheers,

Jason

[Rella]

Sad to say, but I agree with you about this. I wish there was a definitive answer.

I do tend to go with all Kysela's wine. And he happens to be in my nearest town. I love his web site, his warehouse, and his distribution. I do go outside of this importer's line of wine sometimes, and get very disappointed.

Here is his website,

http://www.kysela.com/

I've seen no other site like it. Pictures abound of the wineries, owners, descriptions of the wine and bottle pictures, prices and ratings.

Thanks to your responses, I think I'll broaden another $5 and see what it brings.

[zin1953]

Actually, there are lots of websites like Fran's . . . but he has some very fine wines -- no doubt about that. I used to distribute his wines in California, and visited many of his producers on a tasting trip to France with him one year. Indeed, I did much of the driving, tasting over 400 wines while driving some 4000 km in 14 days . . .

The wines of Geantet-Pansiot, Heresztyn, and Écard are of course the stars here -- but do not overlook the Beaujolais (though not Pinot Noir) from Manoir du Carra.

You're on the right track in terms of looking at the importer . . . I would, however, branch out from *just* Kysela, and take a look at:

Beaune Imports -- http://www.beauneimports.com/
Kermit Lynch (Fran Kysela used to work for Kermit) -- http://kermitlynch.com/
Louis/Dressner Selections -- http://louisdressner.com/
North Berkeley Imports -- http://www.northberkeleyimports.com/
Robert Kacher Selections -- http://www.robertkacherselections.com/

. . . to name a few.

Cheers,
Jason

[Rella]

Thanks for your url's for my looking more. Ecard and Manoir du Carra are ones I buy with regularity. Without looking them up, I think they are listed as sustainable wines.

[sedimental]

It could also be that you don't like cheap Pinot. I know I don't. Everyone's taste is different. If you really can't seem to find anything in your price range that you feel is worth it or something that you would drink again-- maybe try a Pinot that is 5 times your price per bottle (100 bucks) and note the difference. For me, I would prefer to spend more money on one bottle I really liked vs on five bottles I really didn't like so much. Also, USA Pinot and FR Pinot are not the same animal to me. You could really like one and not the other.

My advice would be to venture out more than just adding a few dollars to your price range, maybe cut to the chase of the issue a bit faster. It might be cheaper in the long run.

[zin1953]

I don't think ANYONE likes "cheap" Pinot Noir, but there are several inexpensive bottlings that are quite wonderful . . . .

[sedimental]

I haven't found any. Do you have any rec's of "wonderful" PN's under 30 dollars?

[wattacetti]

Oak Bay PN from the Okanagan sells for $20 or $25 CAD, depending on which of the two one purchases.

Tantalus PN is $30 CAD; also from the OK, but uses German clones with which they're trying to fashion a "Burgundian style".

Clendenen's ABC La Bauge au dessu sells for under $30 USD (it's more expensive here).

Chevalier de Dyonis Dealu Mare from Romania (!) is under $10 CAD; vineyards run by French vintners taking advantage of available land. It's not DRC, but for $10, it's "quaffable".

[sedimental]

Those sound interesting! Lots of cheap wine is "quaffable" to me...heck...if it is too bad...I just make Sangria. No harm done! But, I don't buy it twice, I have not found any that I consider "wonderful" -and I would rather spend my money on other wines I know I like (cheap or not). To me, cheap Pinot tastes like Sangria to start with! I have an easier time with cheap Pinot Gris -drinking it from the bottle- at least it doesn't remind me of berry flavor gatorade. It is just not worth it *to me*.

OTOH, I do like expensive PN. I have not met a pricey PN that I didn't like. So I KNOW it is not the GRAPE. I was just wondering if the OP might have a similar palate for PN as I do. If so, it might be that they don't really find anything "worth it" at such a low price point. Just an idea- not a judgement.

[wattacetti]

Could also be style. I personally dislike PNs from the Loire, Alsace and Germany.

[Rella]

I tried 2006 and 2007 Austria, Bergenland, Meinklang Farm, Organic Pinot Noir, bottled at the farm. Bought at Wegman's, Leesburg, VA, April 2011. I'm not sure, but I think this was written up in a Washington, D.C. paper. Price $13.99. I bought them specifically because they were organic.

[wattacetti]

Did you like them?

[Rella]

I find that they tasted a bit amarone-y :-)

[sedimental]

Could be. I like BIG Bombs (expensive) USA PN's and age worthy FR PN's (also pricey)...and not much in between. I divide it by price rather than style because it is easier that way -while fairly accurate- I am sure it is not absolute. I just quit buying them "to see" though -so I don't throw so much money away.

I might try the one from Romania though, LOL. My experience with wines from that part of the world is that they are too sweet and flabby for me (in general). It is intriguing though!

[wattacetti]

Both difficult to get here (Quebec) but for different reasons. Not enough people like that type of California PN, or more specifically, they won't pay for them. And age-worthy Bourgogne seems to be everyone's pasttime, so unless you've an "in" with the private importer or select staff at the monopoly, it's a challenge. Not to say that there isn't any within the distribution channel, but it'll always be from the more "challenging" vintages (sort of like the wine list at the Commander's Palace).

Au Bon Climat, Walter Hansel, Loring, Patricia Green, Siduri out of the many coming out of CA. Trying (and currently failing) to get some Thackrey Andromeda too (2008 apparently with extra barnyard).

Outside of CA, there's BC, NZ, Tasmania that have my attention. My red Bourgogne is all over the regional map.

[zin1953]

In part that all depends upon where you live . . . you're in Washington, so I cannot speak to inventories there, but here are a few in random order . . . . (all under $30)

2007 Domaine Nicolas Potel Bourgogne Rouge "Maison Dieu" Vieilles Vignes
2008 Domaine Ramonet Bourgogne Rouge
2008 Domaine Marquis d'Angerville Bourgogne Rouge
2008 Domaine Tollot-Beaut Bourgogne Rouge
2009 Domaine Joseph Voillot Bourgogne Rouge
2009 Domaine Gros Frere et Soeur Hautes Cotes de Nuits
2007 Joseph Drouhin Chorey-le-Beaune
2008 Camille Giroud Santenay
2009 Maurice Ecard Savigny-Les-Beaune "Narbantons"
2009 Maurice Ecard Savigny-Les-Beaune "Les Serpentieres"

. . . just to mention a few. ;^)

Now, seriously, are you going to get a Charmes-Chambertin or Bonnes-Mares for <$30? Of course not! But there are some truly wonderful wines out there . . . and when there is a sale --

[sedimental]

Okay Zin, I respect your advice...but here is the deal:
I want a wine, when I take a sip, to grab me by the balls (difficult to do since I am a girl)....
Either I want it to grab me, slap my ass and say..."wake up, I am the juiciest PN you have ever had in your mouth"!!!!! This is usually the California type- or
it whispers...(in a thick French sexy accent).." mon ami, close your eyes and listen to the subtle notes I have..." usually an older French one.

What I don't want, is what happened tonight. I opened a Sea Smoke Southing
(2005). Nothing wrong with that! I poured and took a sip. The wine said..."Hi". Then, I think it burped. I swirled it around the glass....it was clearly out of shape and flabby....I think it was balding -and it didn't take care of it's teeth. It said..."Hey, you paid $84.95 for me"...."how ya like me now"???? I said "well, I must have been an idiot". It laughed a little. It was not "flawed"....it did not fart in bed...it just sat there...looking good... nicely jeweled...but wines lacking in flaws are not "great wines"...they just lack flaws. It was BORING. Do you know what I mean? It was $84.95 misspent.

I guess what I am saying is that I know what I like in a wine. I can think of sooooo many other wines to drink other than cheap PN's that try to make an impression- but just don't have it. I will write down your rec's but I am a very secure woman that knows what she likes ;) I think I might have tried Maurice Ecard, but there again- I know what I can get in the same price range..."bang for the buck"....and it is not PN! LOL ( I hope you take this as tongue-in-cheek as it was meant to be).

[wattacetti]

I just have this image of you standing in a tasting room next to a man shaped like a Bartlett pear sporting too-tight corduroy, a print polyester shirt with giant collar points, chains, and hair plugs that haven't quite taken.

So the Sea Smoke was a beer goggles kind of moment for you then?

[sedimental]

HA...HA........
Exactly. Not worth it baby!

[JAB]

Not sponge worthy?

[sedimental]

I should add...after the Sea Smoke... I opened a 1984 Monticello Cab. Spac-freakin- tacular. It exploded in my mouth...full of grapes that took over with semi -auto grape-y weapons... full of ripe black berries and spice notes that sing so loudly in your ears that...well... you have to sing along. No ignoring THAT. No contest. Just a note: If you were to buy a 1984 Monticello....it would not be as expensive as a Sea Smoke. What a CROCK!!!!!!

[zin1953]

Well, if what you want is
>>> I want a wine, when I take a sip, to grab me by the balls (difficult to do since I am a girl)....

Either I want it to grab me, slap my ass and say..."wake up, I am the juiciest PN you have ever had in your mouth"!!!!! This is usually the California type- or
it whispers...(in a thick French sexy accent).." mon ami, close your eyes and listen to the subtle notes I have..." usually an older French one. <<<

It will NOT happen. Period. The best of the lower-end Burgundies will generally be supple, flavorful, subtle and even have some richness, depth and complexity -- BUT, are they equal to the Grands Crus of a commune like Vosne-Romanée? No. So if you really want a wine that's going to -- yes, well if I repeated what an old boss of mine used to say about a great wine, the moderators would surely censor me -- well, you know . . . it just doesn't happen.

Once again, generalizations (with, admittedly, several exceptions) . . .

"Bang for the Buck" and Pinot Noir are rarely comfortable in the same sentence ***on the LOW end *** of the price spectrum. Oddly enough they often do work together in the, say $40-80 or $100 range, given that you can get any number of 1er Crus and Grands Crus in that price range and -- compared to, say, what Bordeaux often sells for . . . .

But on the <$25-30 end, you can get some very tasty, enjoyable wines -- and wines that I enjoy regularly -- but wines that will only *occasionally* "blow you away." On the other hand, in that same price range, you can certainly get some AMAZING wines from -- if not Bordeaux and Champagne -- from the Rhône, the Loire, Alsace, the Languedoc and Sud-Ouest; from Spain, Portugal and Italy; from California, Washington State, New Zealand and Australia, Chile and Argentina . . . obviously lots to choose from.

Wines that "grab you by the *****," or that (as Dennis used to say) " *** in your mouth" . . . nah. Not from Burgundy in the <$30 category. But this isn't to say that a gentle caress and maybe some more "advanced" fondling isn't possible. ;^)

Cheers,
Jason