NFNS 6/19/11 spoilers

[smartie]

I for one am glad Alicia has been booted this week, too antsy in the kitchen and her cooking didn't quite make it.

I am still betting on Orchid winning the series.

[jmckee]

We were on vacation and only caught this on the rerun so let me say: OH thank God. Alicia was the queen of drama, always getting hysterical, and frankly betting her looks (which were not as good as FTV seems to think) would get her through. Plus, that bizarre throaty Mercedes-McCambridge-doing-demon's-voice-in-The-Exorcist thing she'd do -- totally weird. Like watching a bad roadshow of "Sybil" when the different personalities emerge.

I forget which episode it was, but one of the times she went into hysteria, my wife turned to me and said, "OK, now I don't want her to lose. I just want to slap her."

[coney with everything]

"OK, now I don't want her to lose. I just want to slap her."

That comment put me in mind of the scene in "Airplane" where the passengers lined up to slap the hysterical woman...that would spice up this turkey of a show!

[DGresh]

good riddens to Alicia. Her facial expressions and frazzled nature were starting to drive me crazy. And I *still* can't tell most of the guys apart from one another.

[NYCkaren]

I agree that Alicia had to go. But I'm sorry that Penny and the boys beat the all-girl team. I think they had an advantage with Robert Irvine in charge instead of Duff. Irvine is used to whipping people into shape and getting them to focus. It's what he does on his show. His team was on track to lose before he stepped in.

[AMFM]

i agree. and irvine gave them a better challenge to work with. duff's "good food that'll taste good to 6 year olds" was admittedly a bit limiting.

and i couldn't dislike penny more. the quintessential mean girl and she just doesn't get it. and it's too bad because her food looks interesting but i would never watch her. agree that it isn't just about winning, but about having fans at the end. i like orchid. and i actually like mary beth. and maybe whitney but she strikes me as dumb and without a lot going on. of the boys, i wish justin would get it together because i like his look and his food. and which one is the nerdy looking guy? he's growing on me. vic - we'll see.

[chowser]

That's funny that Whitney strikes you as dumb because I think of her as the opposite. I think both she and Justin (earring Justin) as both cerebral and not as good at explaining what they're doing, or with relating to others in a group.

[AMFM]

she probably is smart but i just can't see it. she looks blank to me. but you're right - it could be that she's over thinking like justin. funny that i see it in him and not in her. maybe i'm prejudiced against women... hmmmm....

[hannah]

Whitney was a former engineering consultant. I got the impression she is quite intelligent.

[chowser]

Alicia needed to go for her mental sanity. I think she would have had a nervous breakdown soon, if she hadn't. Watching her made me wonder how she manages to get dressed in the morning.

I'm looking for Justin, tattoo/earring guy, to pick it up. I think he's a good cook, knows what he's doing and calm enough to handle the freneticism of a show. He just needs to learn to be more comfortable in front of the camera. I don't know why Whitney doesn't get more time and respect--she can obviously cook, she's steady and comfortable in front of the camera and is just too cute. What a great looking crocquembouche she made, complete w/ spun sugar topping. And, Chris, just saying you're going to show them you're mature doesn't do it. As the Duff team said, he's like a frat boy.

[Worldwide Diner]

I think Whitney is a great cook but she's almost as stiff as Justin with the massive ear-rings.

[Miss Needle]

Whitney cooks at Per Se. So she definitely knows how to cook. I also thought her croquembouche looked great. Maybe FN thinks there's only room for one Rachel Ray (in terms of looks) on the network? Maybe she's not bubbly enough for them?

[chowser]

I didn't know she cooked at Per Se. Interesting--great to see her succeed in cooking, after studying engineering.

[Miss Needle]

This was on her audition video. And she also said that she gets paid about $8/hr! I hope this exposure can help her make a bit more money.

[chowser]

I'll have to check it out. I wonder what she does for $8 an hour! That's about what the dishwasher makes. But I guess a lot of positions at places like that are internships where you work for free even.

[coney with everything]

Yeah, my kid is bussing/dishwashing at a small local place, minimum wage plus tips so he beats $8 all to hell.

Chowser, I think you're right about the internship concept, could be like Kitchen Confidential

[Withnail42]

I think Whitney will do just fine. She's clearly talented, well spoken, and has a great look.
They haven't focused on her too much. Which usually means that they are saving her story for later in the series. If she doesn't win they will most likely have something for her. Perhaps Bobby Flay will add to his 'production' just like Claire Robbinson.

[LurkerDan]

Alicia definitely needed to go, there simply was no way that she was going to be the NFNS.

But some of them need to remember that this isn't just a competition show like Top Chef. You have to be likable, and not just on the official screen tests. Penny doesn't really get this.

[DiningDiva]

Actually, Penny was better with the guys. I could tolerate her as she wasn't being so pissy. I don't think Penny will win either, but I do think she'll be on for quite a few more weeks.

Need to go - Mary Beth, Justin B., Chris, sandwich dude
Need to step it up - Justin D., Whitney

The rest are playing the game pretty well and it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. Vic is growing on me.

[Joanie]

Wow, I completely disagree about Justin B and sandwich dude. SD has a good personality and I think he'll go far. As I said above, I have a feeling JB will get it together and be on for a while. Mary Beth is a bit annoying but I can see her having a show. I feel like Whitney was much better than last week but has a ways to go.

[rasputina]

I'm not surprised that Alicia was booted, except for the fact that Chris is also circling the drain. If he hadn't got a free pass for being on the winning team it would have been close as two which of them went home.

[DiningDiva]

Thank you FTV. She was really getting annoying. Now, if they will just get rid of Chris (sigh)

[Joanie]

I feel like Chris keeps getting in his own way and he could be much less douchey if he just calmed down a little. He tries to take the comments to heart. Justin with the lobes just can't add any zip to his personality and yeah, popcorn for the 6 hrs allotted time? i was surprised they said the other Justin was meek, I thought he came off pretty pleasant albeit not overly forceful. I see him as a dark horse. Alicia was a mess, I'd be embarrassed to watch myself in those episodes if I were her.

[ipsedixit]

Yeah, Alicia -- she of the "always on the verge of tears" contestant.

[ellenost]

No, she wasn't "always on the verge of tears", she actually became hysterical on too many episodes (wait, I think all of them). She was completely not professional, and deserved to be kicked off. I would never have watched her show if she had won. I think she used her tears to get the sympathy vote from the judges.

[chicgail]

I had a different take. I don't think she is capable that level of strategy or manipulation. I think she is terrified, has zero confidence and is on the brink of falling apart, period. I hope she finds something else she can do.

[ellenost]

You're probably right. Unfortunately her behavior sets a horrible example for professional women everywhere. The one thing that I've made sure never to do in the workplace is to cry. Every time we saw Alicia, she was crying. How embarrassing for women everywhere!

[LurkerDan]

Why is the behavior of one woman "embarrassing for women everywhere"? Would you think it odd if I said she's embarrassing for white people everywhere? She's one woman on one TV show, "women" as a group don't need to own her behavior anymore than I own the behavior of every male I see on TV. She was embarrassing for herself and no more.

[ellenost]

Sounds like you're not a woman working in a traditionally "man's" job otherwise you wouldn't be making your comment.

[LurkerDan]

Ah, the old "you're not a woman so you can't have an opinion on this" tactic. Kudos to you for figuring out that I'm not a woman, and for somehow knowing how all women think on a subject that typically has great disagreement.

Bear in mind that I'm the one saying that women should NOT be embarrassed by her behavior, because she doesn't speak for or represent all women, and you're the one saying that she does. What about the fact that there are 15 contestants on the show and 8 of them are women? Why is her behavior somehow representative of all women, why are you as a woman forced to own it such that you're embarrassed *as a woman*?

Which one of us is being more supportive of women's causes here?

[ellenost]

Unfortunately, women who cry in the work place (especially if the work place is male dominated) are viewed as "too emotional" and "weak" and are not to be taken seriously and are certainly never given career advancement. I am an attorney, and have seen women who cry or get emotional have not been given career advancement. It's a shame, but it still happens. I would imagine that working as a chef is probably even more male oriented, and women like Alicia who cry when it gets too difficult won't last too long, and will make it more difficult for the next woman who wants to work in that kitchen.

Bottom line: You sound like a great guy, and any woman working for you would be very lucky. Most women aren't so lucky. Most kitchens aren't run by a man as honorable as you.

[chowser]

Yes, a woman should not be embarrassed by her behavior and it doesn't stand for what other women do but you know what? It does, for many people. While you obviously don't stereotype (which is a good thing), you'd be surprised at the number of people who do. So, you can have an opinion on it but you've never had to live it so you're opinion is based on limited experience.

People often only look at examples of what fits into their stereotypes. If they think women are often hysterical, crying, when they see it, they file it away, "See, just as I thought." But, they disregard the rest who aren't. An example is the loud obnoxious American abroad. It's a stereotype. When I studied abroad, there was one loud obnoxious American in the college and people would always look to him and nod knowingly, but overlook the rest of us quiet ones. He made us look bad. It shouldn't have reflected on the rest of the Americans but it did.

[LurkerDan]

So now I don't understand how a specific stereotype can effect people's judgments with respect to that stereotype if I haven't lived with that specific stereotype? Even if I have been subject to judgments based on stereotypes of many other kinds?

Regardless, it is absurd to get upset every time someone does something that fits a stereotype that you don't like. As a jew, should I be upset every time I read about a jew in the business journals who became president of a bank or a media company? As an attorney, should I be upset every time I see an ad on TV by some "ambulance chaser"? Because they perpetuate stereotypes I don't like? No. I should be upset when someone applies a stereotype *to me*, when someone assumes I'm stingy because I'm jewish or an ambulance chaser because I'm a lawyer. It's equally as absurd to take Alicia's behavior as an affront to women everywhere; she doesn't deserve that burden. If you are going to be upset every time someone presents an example that fits a stereotype, you must spend a lot of your life upset. :shrug:

[chowser]

If you really believe that no one applies a stingy jewish person stereotype to you, based on what they notice, behind your back, then more power to you. I've heard that comment told me to, in "private" by people. As in, "I know Jews are stingy because xxxxx jewed me out of money so LurkerDan is probably the same" and that justifies their view. You just don't know that they're applying it to you. FWIW, I don't take Alicia's behavior as an affront but do find it annoying as heck. Grow up (not you, Alicia). I was jumping in more on the idea that people who play into stereotypes do nothing to hurt those stereotyped. It does. That type of behavior increases the odds that it will be applied to you.

[AMFM]

as a woman in a professional job i'd just like to say, that while Alicia was painful to watch and was obviously in over her head, if people are going to stereotype, I'm far more embarrassed by the image of women that Penny portrays.

[chicgail]

Penny and Alicia are two sides of the same stereotypical coin. People are going to think whatever they're going to think (or not) about a whole gender based on those two women's behavior. I'm afraid I see them as individual dysfunctional people and not in any way representative of women in general.

[Worldwide Diner]

Penny is calculating whereas Alicia can't even make a cake and she's a baker. What do you have against competent people?

[AMFM]

penny is mean, vindictive, spiteful and spent the first episode trying to play up slutty as if it was cool. i know other mean girls. i don't like them.

i said alicia was in over her head. and nowhere in my post did i say that i liked her or that i thought people should stereotype women based on either of them. i simply said that if they were going to... i find the stereotype of that type of woman far more damaging to who i strive to be and what i strive to accomplish than that of an emotional creature who overreaches. i don't mind people who cry or show weakness. i don't relate it to being stupid or incompetent.
would i want to watch her show? no. did i think she needed to go? yes. did i dislike her as a person? she didn't show me any character flaws that would make me do so. penny has. just my opinion.

and i have nothing against competent people.

[rasputina]

+1 to every single word of AMFMs post

[LurkerDan]

Of course people apply stereotypes to me without my knowledge. That's just life. And sure, people who fit a stereotype can help perpetuate the stereotype. But that's life, and I can't change it, any more than I can change the person who is misogynist or anti-jew.

As chicgail said, "I'm afraid I see them as individual dysfunctional people and not in any way representative of women in general."