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Jun 8, 2011 07:06 PM

Let's talk about sugar. How bad is it? It's probably the most evil thing. You are probably better off taking cocaine everyday


Was reading about a new raw vegetarian restaurant opening up this month in Philly and came across this quote from an interview with one of the partners. What do my fellow hounds think? Here is the article:

  1. Girlfriend needs to get a grip is what I think.

    I'm sorry but some of these people - they can't just make it a personal choice, acknowledge that there are several different roads that lead to good health and just be good with it. There are a hundred other options she could have chosen short of banning cooked food from her diet in order not to be 200 pounds. But, she had to take this relatively extreme route, convince herself that her choice in diets is *supreme* and demonize everything else.

    Sugar is worse than cocaine??? What a DRRRAMA QUEEN. Someone should slap her upside the head and back down with both sides of a gigantic lollipop.

    3 Replies
    1. re: inaplasticcup

      Ha ha ha Inaplasticcup! Love your comments! Here is my take on it. There is a gay pride day in philly on saturday that I might attend. I had a great time at Outfest a couple of years ago with my friend John. Everyone was nice. But once in awhile the group that pushes to make sex with children legal shows up and the rest of the community cringes in horror. It seems like every respectable movement has extremists that are a detriment to their cause. Pogo was one of the sunday comics I used to read. My favorite quote is "we has met the enemy and they is us".

      1. re: givemecarbs

        I understand what you mean. It's usually the most outrageous who like to make the most noise. Only, there aren't any decent and reasonable NAMBLA members, are there? :|

        1. re: inaplasticcup

          No there sure aren't inaplasticcup. But they try to be included in the events run by the gay community. Le sigh. Hope not to see them on sat.

    2. i think she sort of sounds like an idiot. she calls herself a raw foodist but says she's about "80% raw." that's like someone claiming they're 80% vegan - you either are or aren't, there are no percentages involved.

      and she lost all credibility on the sugar issue when she suggested using agave instead. news flash: agave nectar *is* sugar.

      40 Replies
      1. re: goodhealthgourmet

        my fave is when things says the contain evaporated cane juice.

        there's a word for that stuff

        1. re: thew

          Yes Yes we all know that sugar is sugar, but here's the catch. Different sugars are absorbed into the body at substantially different rates. Evaporated cane juice has a glycemic index of 55 where as High Fructose Corn Syrup is around 140. So you ask what's the difference?" foods with a low gycemic index rating absorb into the body more slowly which in turns does not cause a huge blood sugar spike, which in turn means that your body & pancreas do not need to create as much insulin in a short period of time.....

          1. re: brassica2012

            wow, thanks for the thorough i know.

            1. re: brassica2012

              What's the source for that 140 number? lists GI for prepared foods, things you actually eat, not components. It has entries for glucose, but HFCS is a blend of glucose and fructose (which has a low GI).

              1. re: paulj

                I have a chart listing the glycemic index of most types of sugar, I got it off a web page years ago but cannot find the link to it. Also I did misquote the material, HFCS has an index of 89, it's maltodextrin that's listed as 140. It's said anything above 60 is considered a high glucose food and should be consumed in limited quantities....

              2. re: brassica2012

                but unless you have a condition that a high glycemic index is contraindicated for, it doesnt matter

                1. re: thew

                  I would disagree, in that there are many studies that indicate eating a lot of foods high up on the glycemic index significantly contribute to the development of diabetes among other health issues.....

                  1. re: brassica2012

                    You are behind the times! :) The current fad is to blame fructose for these health issues, not glucose.

                  2. re: thew

                    Eating high glycemic loads is how most people develop metabolic problems.

              3. re: goodhealthgourmet

                He he! Great comments everyone. goodhealthgourmet I have been meaning to learn more about the all or nothing creed for vegetarianism and vegan. A few years ago my friend John told me that he was part vegetarian and I remember feeling a little angry and thinking he was being a hypocrite. I think what I actually said was isn't that like being a little bit pregnant?
                But I've been watching some movies like Simply Raw and Curing Cancer from the Inside Out and wondering if I was wrong to feel that way about these diets. One hard core to the max raw vegan that I've talked to advises eating one cooked meal every two weeks or so you don't become overly sensitive to cooked foods. I've also wondered why vegans who are doing it for health reasons as opposed to animal rights concerns don't eat one animal protein meal a month or so rather than taking supplements. I'm so confused. But if vegans want more converts (do they?) maybe they should ease off on the all or nothing attitude. I'm a total noob just bumbling around here and I don't mean to offend anyone. That is hilarious about the agave nectar. :)

                1. re: givemecarbs

                  you're not offending anyone! as far as *why* people choose to do what they do when it comes to food lifestyles, everyone's got their reasons - as odd or convoluted as some of them may be - and trying to make sense of it can be crazy-making. but i have to say, that comment from your friend about becoming "overly sensitive to cooked food" is bizarre to me.

                  1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                    Maybe it's in line with many raw foodists' thinking that the human body wasn't designed to digest cooked food?

                    1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                      Thanks goodhealthgourmet. I'll have to ask him to explain it better to me. What I think he meant was that if you never eat cooked food ever, and get put in a situation where you have to eat it, your body will react badly. Better to be able to eat cooked food once in awhile with no ill effects. The raw plant based diet sounds like it can be socially isolating.
                      I guess after reading a lot of testimonials and watching some movies I'm in a what if state of mind. What if the movies and testimonials are true? It's kind of a mental exercise for me. If I believed the literature how would I spread the word? Probably not the way the woman in the interview did with her provocative statement about sugar. I guess she means well but oh my gosh. The guy who advises some cooked food and has been pretty hard core raw vegan for a good long while likes to get his point about not eating eggs in a very bizarre way. He says eating an egg is similar to walking up to a pregnant woman and pointing at her belly and asking if he can eat her unborn child. How do you even respond to a statement like that?

                      1. re: givemecarbs

                        Isn't more asking to have one her eggs from her ovaries? The pregnancy thing is more like balut. That would be my response, but then, I have a twisted sense of humour.

                        1. re: Sooeygun

                          L.M.F.A.OOOOOOO... You sick, sick puppy. :)

                          1. re: Sooeygun

                            I'd hand him a jar of beluga caviar.

                          2. re: givemecarbs

                            But when when he eats cooked food, is that like going up to that woman a few years later and asking to BBQ her son? :) (this subthred is pretty gross :)

                            1. re: givemecarbs

                              By ignoring him because he's an idjit.

                              1. re: mcf

                                well, yeah, but that's not as fun as the rest...

                        2. re: goodhealthgourmet

                          I get a kick when people point to the benefits of "natural" as in the article: "A: Try agave and or stevia [natural sweeteners]." I don't know if stevia is any more natural than sugar...and as pointed out on another thread, salmonella and arsenic are all wholly natural. Does this make them "good" to to eat?

                          As for the 80% vegan thing, I guess we can all class ourselves vegan, raw, or whatever. I would peg myself at 40% vegan/10% raw/40% animal protein/10% empty calories (vino blanco)...

                          1. re: porker

                            Not to mention that stevia is just plain AWFUL tasting. :|

                            1. re: inaplasticcup

                              It's actually pretty good in some situations. We grow it all summer long and it's great muddled in mojitos, lemonade or iced tea.

                              1. re: ferret

                                Oh so you get it directly from the plant? Maybe there's something in the processing that gives it (what to me is) a lingering saccharin aftertaste...

                                1. re: inaplasticcup

                                  It's certain has more herbal notes (although mild) when you use the whole leaf with a surprising level of sweetness.

                                  1. re: inaplasticcup

                                    @inaplasticcup, yes, processing can isolate and pronounce some of the bitter notes, which is why most of the commercial/refined stevia products out there taste nasty.

                                    1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                      Thanks to both for the information. If I weren't such black thumb, I might try to grow some... :)

                                      1. re: inaplasticcup

                                        If you have outdoor space, it's pretty effortless (okay, you do need to water it, but that's about it). It's pretty tough to kill, assuming it gets water.

                                        I bought it on a whim because Home Depot had it in their herbs section and it grew well all summer long.

                                        1. re: ferret

                                          Well, I'll very soon have a small patio. I can handle watering. Maybe I'll look for a plant. Is the sweetener in the sap of the stems? Leaves?

                                          1. re: inaplasticcup

                                            Leaves. They're mint-leaf size and you can treat them much like mint in that they need to be bruised to release flavor, so they lend themselves to muddling. You won't achieve the same level of sweetness as you will with sugar or other sweeteners but it's perceptible. You can also steep the leaves with tea in hot water.

                              2. re: porker

                                will she describe herself as 80% pregnant when it comes time to raise a family?

                                1. re: porker

                                  Love your user name porker. And your diet. Very sensible. From an outsider's viewpoint I think perfectionism hurts a lot of vegans and raw vegans. It's like they eat one french fry or a bit of cheese and think they blew it so they might as well fall all the way off the wagon. I'm in a seeking stage right now but I have a feeling my diet will end up similar to yours in the end. For one thing I'll be able to socialize easily with non-members of the cult. Have you eliminated dairy if you don't mind me asking?

                                  1. re: givemecarbs

                                    since you ask...i consume most of my dairy in the form of butchered cow....
                                    actually, i never really drank milk (thinking milk is good for baby cows, not necessarily for me) and my fondness for cheese was (and is) rarely exploited. I wont even talk about butter.
                                    I am currently learning (somewhat ignorant of proper nutrition) that skim milk is likely a good source of protein and other good stuff.
                                    Funny how we learn and grow and think we are suddenly, i try to keep my eating habits to myself - i dont wanna change the world, i just wanna do whats right for me. Nothing against vegans, or rawians, or omnivores, or hi saturated fat, or harry krishnas, or whatever. Wherever you're at, then so be it. In the end, i really think that simple moderation is the key.

                                    1. re: porker

                                      "Nothing against vegans, or rawians, or omnivores, or hi saturated fat, or harry krishnas, or whatever"

                                      Funny to see omnivores in that list--they're about as moderate as you can be.:-)

                                      1. re: porker

                                        Thanks porker, didn't mean to pry but just trying to figure some stuff out. I've been told that whole milk is way better for ya than skim milk because the cream acts as a buffer against the harshness of the cow's milk. Now raw milk, that's really yummy. Haven't had that in awhile but used to be able to get it right from this one farm. It was the honor system too. Those were the days.

                                        1. re: givemecarbs

                                          My mom tells a story of how her brothers used to enjoy skimming into the bucket of hand-milked, fresh, still warm milk - straight from the cow. I kinda shudder at that one....

                                          1. re: givemecarbs

                                            Do your sources elaborate on what they mean by harshness and buffering? Is this something that goes on in the stomach or intestines, or further on in the metabolism? Is this something that applies to everyone, or just to (say) lactose intolerant ones? What are those sources promoting or selling? non-homogenized milk, non-pasturized?

                                        2. re: porker

                                          You say *empty*, I say *FULL* - of chill, relaxation and often inappropriate giggles...

                                      2. "What do my fellow hounds think?"

                                        I think she's an idiot.

                                        2 Replies
                                        1. I love sugar. Can't enough of it.

                                          And, yeah, the author is probably right that I'd probably feel better taking cocaine, but gosh darn it, cocaine is so much more expensive than sugar.

                                          And then there's that whole jail thing with cocaine ...

                                          I think I'll stick with sugar for now.

                                          4 Replies
                                          1. re: ipsedixit

                                            He he he ipsedixit! Jail is so annoying. Wow I haven't checked back in awhile, I love my fellow chowhounds, what a great response. Food Media and News is my new favorite board. Posting and reading the comments has been like a cool breeze on a stifling hot Philly day in June. I am curious about raw vegan and I'm going to continue looking into it but you all have brought me balance and humor on this topic. Most of the raw vegans I've come in contact with have swallowed the kool aid.

                                            1. re: givemecarbs

                                              I'm happy to say I don't know any raw vegans. I honestly don't think I could deal with such a person. Really. I'm running out of patience for people and their crap as I get older. And there's an awful lot of people out there slinging an awful lot of crap these days.

                                              1. re: flourgirl

                                                He he! So true flourgirl! But it's a strange strange world. In about three weeks or so in Lansdale Pa there will be a rib eating contest entitled Monsters of Pork two. And after that there will be a pie eating contest for kids broken down by age groups. A nice touch. But get this, the pies are being supplied by the vegan bakery in town and (quoting from the newsletter): Pies will be egg, dairy and gluten free so kids with allergies won't be left out. I am in awe over this. Check it out if you don't believe me:

                                                1. re: givemecarbs

                                                  I'll be more in awe if they're tasty!

                                          2. Whenever I come across a person (thankfully always by reading an article and not in real life) I immediately think of my grandparents - all four of them - who consumed meats, carbohydrates, cream, butter, sugar, coffee, alcohol - pretty much every day and all lived to ripe old ages (three of the four lived into their 90s and the fourth one died at 88).

                                            What they did do was to have a sensible, balanced diet with plenty of vegetables and fruits, small portions (by modern day standards), rarely have second helpings and minimal intake of processed/junk food.

                                            1 Reply
                                            1. re: Roland Parker

                                              I think you hit it, sorry for the drama but I totally agree and most NEVER will get it and that is all.
                                              Even if you are wrong, WHO WANTS TO LIVE THAT LONG???

                                              Barring perhaps seeing an heir make good then I will be done before then. No need in my "living on" in diapers. I'll take my life as it comes thank you very much and I will enjoy fat dripping cuts of meat and products like ZOMG BUTTER... Long after the less fortunate have previously expired. I don't abuse this philosophy but it really is liberating to eat bacon and syrup/butter smothered waffles when some scolding someone who bans such things from their diet is obviously less healthy when put to any kind of test. Absolutism is bad, it's not like a new thing they just came up with, but so many refuse to see health is basically compounded interest.
                                              Answer people's groping for an answer when it's basically a math problem and they will still search for the fountain of youth just like they believe in some kind of Bimini miracle.

                                              In order to make a balance then I just agree. We're going to die anyway and I don't have a crystal ball.