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nsxtasy
Jun 9, 2011 11:09 AM
The cover article in the May issue of Indianapolis Monthly is "The Best Restaurants - 50 Places Make the Cut". Most of the fifty restaurants are NOT chain restaurants. Their top five: Oakley's Bistro, R Bistro, Peterson's, Recess, and Taste Cafe and Marketplace. The issue can be downloaded for $1.99 at www.zinio.com/browse/issues/index.jsp...
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re: Fibber McGee
Cookiefiend
Jun 3, 2011 03:09 PM
Could be - this is e0k2i4m's first post.
But this post was originally named Chain City - Indianapolis wasn't even mentioned until you opened the post. Now anyone just looking in the Great Lakes section will see this title and think, well Indy must be full of chains.
But, jeeze... come on now - we have a lot of chains, but there's also a lot of independents as well. Heck, they've even tagged one!
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re: Cookiefiend
nsxtasy
Jun 3, 2011 05:38 PM
>> But this post was originally named Chain City - Indianapolis wasn't even mentioned until you opened the post.
That was unfortunate. This forum covers six states, and any topic should have a recognizable location in its title, so that when browsing the list of topic titles, those interested in discussing that loction (because they live or visit there) can do so, and those not interested can skip over it.
>> Now anyone just looking in the Great Lakes section will see this title and think, well Indy must be full of chains.
I'm not sure this is any worse than a topic whose opening post starts out, "Recently moved to Indianapolis. Appears to be overrun by chain restaurants...." like the one at http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/334868
However, any serious Chowhound knows that every good-sized city has a lot of interesting restaurants, including plenty of independent restaurants (some of which are linked above). Also, in addition to those independent restaurants ("indy in Indy", LOL!) some of the best restaurants in Indy consist of chains with only a handful of locations, and which represent a higher level of quality than the mass-market chains. There's a huge difference in quality between mass-market chains (e.g. Chili's, TGI Friday's) and the specialty chains which have also flourished in Indy (Cafe Patachou, Oceanaire, Palomino, Z's Oyster).
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re: nsxtasy
huiray
Jun 6, 2011 05:48 AM
Well, Indy does have a heavy presence of chains even in the central downtown area (vis-a-vis your comments in a post below about chains being more prevalent as you get out of the central area of a city). I would consider Mass Ave as being on the borderline between central downtown and not-downtown... Anyway, the struggle of independent places in Indy continues apace - I hear Euphoria will be ceasing evening service to concentrate on their catering business and the current chef (Denman) is leaving.
As for specialty chains, I hear that Z's Oyster Bar has just closed, as of June 3. (The Indy website still loads, but if you go to the main Z's Oyster bar page only the Louisville locations are posted as options for location.)-
re: huiray
nsxtasy
Jun 6, 2011 08:33 AM
That's too bad about Z's. But I'm not surprised. As I mentioned when I reported on my dinner there ( http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/3485... ), their location was just terrible because there was absolutely ZERO visibility from any main street - not even any signage - and they were virtually empty when I went there.
It's also too bad about Euphoria. I really liked it when I went there, and the restaurant has such a great view of downtown Indy that will now go to waste. There too, though, is a problem being tucked away in the Clarian area with little to no visibility from 11th Street, which itself is not a main through street and doesn't have much traffic other than Clarian employees.
Restaurants sometimes locate away from trendy areas with a lot of foot traffic, like Mass Ave and Broad Ripple, or commercial areas with a lot of auto traffic, because the rents are less elsewhere, but there is often a penalty to be paid in traffic and visibility. Sometimes they can succeed when there's a famous chef to attract people as a destination restaurant (e.g. Oakley's Bistro) but otherwise they have a big disadvantage.
>> Well, Indy does have a heavy presence of chains even in the central downtown area (vis-a-vis your comments in a post below about chains being more prevalent as you get out of the central area of a city).
But so does virtually EVERY major city; Indy is not unique in that regard. For example, many people love Chicago for its independent restaurants, and it's no more a "chain city" than elsewhere; yet you'll find lots of people going to the locations of national chains in downtown Chicago including Cheesecake Factory, Maggiano's, California Pizza Kitchen, Grand Lux Cafe, TGI Friday's, Chili's, etc, as well as locally-based chains (including those specializing in breakfast, deep-dish pizza, Chicago hot dogs, etc). The difference, when you get into the outskirts of cities, is that those chains are the ONLY options available, and you don't find many interesting independent restaurants in those outskirts. So people who move to those outskirts (which those who prefer new construction often do) get the impression of their city as "chain city" when there are more independent restaurants as you get closer in to town.
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re: chocolatetartguy
nsxtasy
Jun 3, 2011 06:58 PM
My point exactly - everyone thinks they live in Chain City.
That perception is particularly prevalent among those who move into relatively new construction on the outskirts of an ever-expanding metropolitan area. For reasons of financing and risk, the chains are often the first places to open close to those new developments, whereas independent restaurants are more likely to locate in trendy older neighborhoods which already have lots of nightlife (e.g. Mass Ave, Broad Ripple).
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re: nsxtasy
Well played point, but I live in Berkeley across the bay from San Francisco and I wouldn't characterize either as a Chain City. In fact in Berkeley, I bemoan the loss of Burger King and Kentucky Fried Chicken. If it weren't for Popeye's (and Cafe Rouge), I might starve in my West Berkeley neighborhood. Skyline Chili is my favorite place to eat in Cincinnati.
From your and others' posts I would say Indianapolis is anything but a Chain City. I very much look forward to what your city has to offer.
After driving across Florida from Tampa to Orlando, it did seem like there were nothing but chains near the hotel I was visiting.
Go Federer and Mavericks!
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Kentucky Fried Chicken Restaurant
1709 E Wabash St, Frankfort, IN 46041-
re: chocolatetartguy
nsxtasy
Jun 4, 2011 06:08 AM
>> I live in Berkeley across the bay from San Francisco and I wouldn't characterize either as a Chain City.
Oh, please! San Francisco and the surrounding area, to which I travel frequently, is just as much "Chain City" as any other major American city. Just like elsewhere, you won't find all *that* many chains within each central city, although there are some. Even though I don't seek out chains, during my visits I've eaten at Spenger's in Berkeley, part of the McCormick and Schmick's national seafood chain, and Kincaid's, a national steakhouse chain. I've also eaten at Chow, a local breakfast-focused chain with four locations including two in San Francisco; it's San Francisco's version of Indy's Cafe Patachou. And once you get into the places with newer developments - everywhere from Concord and Lafayette, down through Hayward and Fremont to much of San Jose - national chains are just as prevalent as in outlying areas of Indy. I'm not saying the SF Bay area has *more* chains than elsewhere, but it's just not all that different; especially when you get away from the central city and there are chains galore.
Oh, and based on my visits there, the Kincaid's in Burlingame near SFO is a lot better than the one in Carmel just north of Indy. If you're looking for a good steak in Indy, go to Peterson's, not Kincaid's.
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re: nsxtasy
Cookiefiend
Jun 5, 2011 07:42 AM
"the Kincaid's in Burlingame near SFO is a lot better than the one in Carmel just north of Indy. If you're looking for a good steak in Indy, go to Peterson's, not Kincaid's."
Boy is that true - the Kincaid's in Carmel is... umm... terrible.
We were there a couple of Sundays ago and our lunch was awful. We'll never go back.nsxtasy - did you make it to Peterson's?
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re: Cookiefiend
nsxtasy
Jun 5, 2011 11:57 AM
No, I still haven't been to Peterson's yet, but my friend in Indy just raves about it.
I was really surprised at the difference between the two Kincaid's. You would think that the one thing chain restaurants *ought* to have is consistency from one location to another, but it sure wasn't happening in this case. I really did enjoy the dinner I had in Burlingame (I wasn't expecting much, just somewhere to eat before catching a flight, but I was pleasantly surprised). And there was just nothing all that great at the one in Carmel.
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re: nsxtasy
>> Oh, please! San Francisco and the surrounding area, to which I travel frequently, is just as much "Chain City" as any other major American city.
Oh, you're welcome! I didn't say either was or wasn't a chain city. I just said, I don't think of either as being a chain city. Anyway, I thought I made it clear, I love more than a few chain restaurants.
Few locals eat at Spenger's any more. It used to be an independent family-owned place and I ate many a swordfish steak and order of buttered mushrooms there as a child.
Lots of chains east and south of the central city, but I was only talking about San Francisco and Berkeley where I am most often. In downtown Berkeley, I was unhappy to see Taco Bell, KFC and Burger KIng close down.
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Cookiefiend
Jun 3, 2011 09:26 AM
