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Ree Drummond, aka The Pioneer Woman, gets her own show

  • Jadore May 15, 2011 12:16 PM
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According to the L.A. times, her Food Network series will premiere in August:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/daily...

Thoughts?

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  1. Quick on the draw, Jadore. Ree announced her debut on FN on her FB page but has yet to talk about it on her blog. Have to admire the pioneer gal for taking every opportunity and building it into the next opportunity.

    The Pioneer Woman - Ree Drummond
    I'm excited to confirm that I'm doing a Food Network show straight from the ranch. Details to come, but for now I'll just promise you that it'll be fun, a little different, possibly wacky, full of kids, dogs, and horses...and I won't cook anything that I wouldn't normally cook in my everyday life. This would include anything involving bananas or fat substitutes.

    21 Replies
    1. re: HillJ

      This would include anything involving bananas or fat substitutes.
      ~~~~~~~~~~
      LOL! cute. but they're filming at her ranch in Nowheresville, Oklahoma? don't know how the crew who lands this assignment is going to feel about that.

      1. re: goodhealthgourmet

        hey ghg! If the show is a hit, the crew is going to be very happy :)
        And, Nowheresville OK was good enough for Bobby Flay.
        I think PW is a very smart cookie.

        1. re: HillJ

          oh i agree she's a sharp one, and i didn't intend to demean the locale or lifestyle out there so i hope that's not how it came across...there's something quite appealing about the simplicity and tranquility of ranch life. i was just thinking that since most FN shows are shot in urban settings like NYC or LA, it might be culture shock for an NYC crew to do a longer haul - Bobby & his team were only there for a day or two.

          1. re: goodhealthgourmet

            heck no, you came across just fine. Frankly, I love food shows that aren't in a studio. There has been no mention as to how long Ree's show will run or where the FN team will come from....but I'm sure details will be along shortly.

        2. re: goodhealthgourmet

          Allegedly, her hubby is pretty wealthy and their ranch is huge. The random pics I've seen of their kitchen look very beautiful, so maybe it won't be so bad!

          1. re: Jadore

            The Drummonds are the Rockefellers of that area. That ranch is roughly the size of New Hampshire. Not kidding.

            1. re: MandalayVA

              *Whistles* I read something online where Ladd Drummond states he makes $100,000 a year, and everyone was saying he makes faaaar more. Maybe they were right!

              1. re: Jadore

                regardless of how much he makes, a dollar buys you a lot more out there than it does in major cities/metro areas.

                1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                  True. I'm a California girl, and the first thing I thought of was the price of housing in the Bay Area and in SoCal.

                  Still, I wouldn't cry over $100,000 a year. :)

                2. re: Jadore

                  and i just read a New Yorker article where she grudgingly admitted she made "a solid one million dollars" in 2010." I loved her story - she came from a well-to-do family in an affluent part of OK, went to the big city (Los Angeles) to study broadcast journalism, and was going to become an attorney when she went home for a visit and met her husband and became a rancher's wife. She sounds smart and creative and I have nothing but admiration for her turning a blog into an empire.

                  1. re: mariacarmen

                    I fully agree, mariacarmen! More power to her. She's awesome.

                    1. re: mariacarmen

                      http://www.abdpbt.com/personalfinance...

                      Who would have thought....

                      1. re: mariacarmen

                        I read the same article and got a rather different impression. Martha Stewart-style monomania. I wouldn't be siurprised to hear she was not thrilled at being described as having "pleasant good looks" for some reason.

                        1. re: buttertart

                          really! I didn't get that... hopefully not true. i'm just extremely jealous and admiring of starting a blog and 3 (? where did i get that from?) years later she's getting a food network show and has book and movie deals. I would be happy with just a very successful blog. Of course, I'd need to actually start one. details, details....

                          1. re: mariacarmen

                            Maybe it's the Ruth Reichl effect with me too. Why not me, God?

                            1. re: buttertart

                              Because you don't live on a ranch, for starters. :)

                            2. re: mariacarmen

                              I have followed her blog for years and somewhere I remember reading she had a friend in the business in LA who got the rough draft of her book (the one about meeting her husband) in front of the right people and things took off from there. I seem to remember the movie rights were sold before the book was finished. So much of it seems to be one of those "it is the people you know" type of luck. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

                3. re: HillJ

                  Haha, thanks HillJ! I went to her site and couldn't find an official announcement, so I stuck with the Times.

                  Actually, I went to her site and got distracted by the Beet and Chevre ravioli she posted a pic and link to. GUILTY!

                  1. re: HillJ

                    I've read and enjoyed her blog for years and I have speculated that her days must have more than 24 hours with the cooking, blogging, ranching, gardening, home-schooling, novel writing, and photography that she does. She seems to be a smart and witty woman, but I did not like the show. I fault FN for this and not her. FN is waaay overplaying the cowboy theme. As a matter of fact, I was thinking the show would make a great drinking game and everybody would be smashed if you had to drink everytime she said the word "cowboy'.

                    1. re: rouxmaker

                      rouxm, I couldn't agree more. No slight to PW although this format might actually be neutral enough for Ree. She's not prone to any level of confrontational marketing. It's a short "series" for consecutive Saturdays. Not a full on show (yet). I'll be curious to see where this adventure does take her next tho. No one has piggy backed their marketing skills quite like PW.

                      1. re: rouxmaker

                        I agree. I enjoy her blog because of her sense of humor but that didn't come across much in the show.

                    2. I like her. She is like a grown up Rachel Ray in the country!

                      I don't suspect she will be teaching new techniques or provide earth shattering recipes but I always get inspiration from her blog. I appreciate these types of cooks where you can tune in and get instant ideas for dinner- kind of like having a friend there with you and saying "what shall I make for dinner tomorrow"...."I have a chicken defrosting"....."oh, yeah, biscuits with cheese and chives" Or "thats what I can do with my vanilla sugar"!

                      I am glad they are adding a simple everyday cook and not more competition shows.

                      1. I love her books and recipes and have made more than my fair share of her dishes at home.

                        My concern is her ending up like Paula Deen where her down home, Americana nature turns into a parody of itself and the show becomes a spectacle instead of a show about her cooking.

                        The fact that it is on Food Network even gives me more pause as that place can suck the life out of any well-meaning cook/chef.

                        I wish her show great success (if it stays true to her), but would have hoped it would have ended up on PBS Create instead of on Food (Competition) TV.

                        (Oh, and if she EVER pairs up with Sandra Lee for any reason, I will burn her books immediately.)

                        2 Replies
                        1. re: Seth Chadwick

                          Seth, I agree, I really don't want to see her become a young Paula.

                          Also, while I agree about FN's terrifying ability to turn a cook into a living, breathing product, PBS isn't where you want to go if you want to become a huge star overnight. Let's face it, if her show does well, she's going to have legions of brand new fans who will rabidly snatch up anything she puts her name on. That type of success will be in part of Ree's natural charm and great recipes, and partially because Food Network is brilliant at creating celebrities, if you will.

                          1. re: Seth Chadwick

                            (Oh, and if she EVER pairs up with Sandra Lee for any reason, I will burn her books immediately.)
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            ha! love it :) but if that does happen, don't be so quick to blame Ree - the network often calls the shots in those situations.

                          2. I just hope she knows when to stop before becoming over-exposed like Paula Deen who I think has pretty much lost all of her charm. She's selling mattresses now. Seriously. Queen Deen has definitely jumped the shark.

                            1 Reply
                            1. re: gritsandgreens

                              I hope PW is not only riding the wave of blog glory for all its worth but living the (unplanned or planned) dream so many people would give their right eye to experience. More power to her and her team. Jump the shark? Hardly. It's the opportunity of a lifetime.

                            2. I'll watch at least once. Her blog is funny but being funny on TV is a whole different kettle of fish.

                              2 Replies
                              1. re: NYCkaren

                                I like her blog, and I check it a couple of days a week. Her recipes are pretty solid, too. But, and I am kind of ashamed to admit this - her voice bothers me. I don't know if I can listen to it. Something about it. I'll watch it once, just to see if it really bothers me, or if it was just a first impression thing.

                                1. re: jeanmarieok

                                  I like her blog as well, but when I first saw her on one of the morning talk shows, her voice bothered me as well. It's odd, but she sounds very nasal. On the other hand, her Pesto, fresh tomato and mozzarella pizza has become my favorite pizza to make. So, I will check out her show
                                  .
                                  I followed her blog while she was doing "the Lodge" over and realized just how well off they are. I believe that's where they will film her new show.

                                  Congrats to her for taking her new found fame and runniing with it.

                              2. Premieres Saturday, August 27 at 11:30am/10:30c - I set the DVR on series record!

                                1. but...but...how can she be a FN star since she didn't compete on NFNS??

                                  2 Replies
                                  1. re: coney with everything

                                    FN needs new shows or viewers will get bored.

                                    1. re: coney with everything

                                      She already has a built-in audience ;)

                                    2. Hey, hats off to her for taking what she already has and running with it!

                                      My opinion? I think she was thinking ahead of all this. When they were building The Lodge, I remember looking at the photos and thinking "It's much, much bigger than it needs to be." Why else would she need all that space? Television cameras ;)

                                      That said, I was not impressed with her TV appearances when she was promoting her cookbook -- granted, even she'd blogged she was nervous when she did them (can't blame her) and poked fun at herself, but there was something there that made me not want to watch her. I hope for her sake she's gotten past that.

                                      That said, it's been ages since I've read PW. I liked her at the outset, but I also got the Martha-Stewart-monomania vibe from her as another poster mentioned upthread. I also never bought the "little ol' country girl" schtick. Please :rolls eyes:

                                      7 Replies
                                      1. re: xo_kizzy_xo

                                        She appears to be Food Network ready. This is bad she used the "yummy" word twice and prepared mac and cheese http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72YO3H...

                                        1. re: chowdom

                                          While I have no issue with the word yummy I had no idea PW had such a catalog of YouTube videos...and sadly the bashing in comments all over the Internet seem to be endless (& imho so unnecessary).

                                          I'll be checking out her FN show out of curiosity and solidarity....not that PW is losing any sleep over silly naysaying.

                                          1. re: HillJ

                                            I was surprised at the number of negative, petty comments posted as well. If her show is anything like the video I posted however I won't be watching it. This was cookie cutter TVFN, completely unoriginal. It seemed as if I could have been watching any number of FN shows, same bad script, shtick only the face had changed...

                                            1. re: chowdom

                                              The YouTube video you provided was from one of the magazines PW was featured in. Sound bite as it were. I'll hold off criticism until I've watched the FN show. So, let's regroup and compare afterwards!

                                            2. re: HillJ

                                              The anti-pioneer woman sites and comments floating around the internet are indeed appalling when you consider how inoffensive Ree Drummond is and if you don't care for her style or food, then simply don't read her blog! The extremeness of the petty attitudes and sniping comments is more telling about the person who wrote them than Ree Drummond.

                                              I came late to the Pioneer woman site, having discovered her earlier this year. She's positive and bubbly and creative, and I enjoy her photography. I've rarely cooked anything she made in part because her meals have a very high calorie count and I don't have the daily exercises that a ranch family has, but I can also tell that I would easily enjoy what she makes.

                                              Much of the success behind Ree Drummond is the aforementioned positive, enthusiastic personality she puts forward. But at the same time I readily acknowledge that she's a brilliant marketer and is breaking new grounds in the field of blogging fame. She should be a textbook case study of the self made, self promoting entrepreneur in a MBA program.

                                              1. re: Roland Parker

                                                RP, I think the fact that Ree has never acknowledged any of the naysaying that has surfaced speaks volumes for her success.

                                            3. re: chowdom

                                              http://www.foodnetwork.com/the-pionee...

                                              Sneak peak of the FN show.

                                          2. Did anyone read the article about her in People mag? She said she has to drive 4 hours to a Whole Foods to find an eggplant. Yikes! Do we have to send Jamie Oliver to Oklahoma? And why can't she grown her own eggplants?

                                            8 Replies
                                            1. re: pdxgastro

                                              Well, the ranch is located out in the middle-of-almost-nowhere from what I understand. I have friends who used to live in OK (albeit nowhere near PW), and they all say that, depending on where you live, it can be bit of a drive to even get groceries. I'd imagine it's the same deal in a lot of small-town Midwest or South.

                                              1. re: xo_kizzy_xo

                                                Very common...in my last town we had drive 1 hr to even get beer!

                                                1. re: LaLa

                                                  Now that would just be totally unacceptable!

                                              2. re: pdxgastro

                                                I've seen PW's ranch garden on her promo video and she often pokes fun at OK life. So my guess is she CAN grow eggplants....but she was making a joke.

                                                1. re: pdxgastro

                                                  She probably can't grow eggplants year-round.

                                                  1. re: alysonlaurel

                                                    Funny, neither can I living on the eastcoast.

                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                      I can't grow them on the West Coast (one of the few items I've tried that's consistently been a failure).

                                                      1. re: emily

                                                        Try the little Asian ones! If I can do it in northern northsville, you can!

                                                        And I hate the thought of Ree driving 4 hours to a WF. Ugh.

                                                2. I like Ree and I check her blog once a week, I will be watching her show if I can but I know a pretty well known Blogger that so deserves to have her own show and did apply to be one of the shows on Oprah's network but did not make it. Listen Food Network or Cooking Channel or any other network that would have a food/health show, Please give Shauna Ahern aka Gluten Free Girl the attention and TV show she deserves.

                                                  1. Sounds like another Rachael Ray/Sandra Lee knock off. Absolutely no interest. And if she's driving 4 hours to get an eggplant she must be a bad driver. There's no way Pawhuska is four hours from Tulsa, or Bartlesville. Not to mention the zillions of farmer's markets around here.

                                                    25 Replies
                                                    1. re: Firegoat

                                                      I googled her and that was enough for me-I agree with you Firegoat.

                                                      Still trying to get that "pioneer" angle

                                                      see 2 "pioneer" kitchens below-one of them belongs to "pioneerwoman"
                                                      Which one is it ?

                                                       
                                                       
                                                      1. re: madeliner

                                                        This page on her web site gives an idea of where the name came from
                                                        http://thepioneerwoman.com/about/
                                                        I bet she chose the name somewhat casually when she started blogging several years ago. Moving LA to a ranch in the middle of Oklahoma must have felt like being a pioneer. Notice that there's a lot more on the web site besides the kitchen and recipes.

                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                          except she was born and raised in Oklahoma, about an hour from where she lives now. She moved to LA for college and came back Oklahoma in her mid-20s.

                                                          (I read her book.)

                                                          1. re: cleobeach

                                                            on a golf corse in a city...not a ranch...which is totally different

                                                            1. re: cleobeach

                                                              I find it interesting that I read more than one article in the last week or two (show promo stuff) that said she was transplanted from LA to the ranch.

                                                              1. re: jeanmarieok

                                                                I guess the transformation from urbanite to cowgirl probably makes a more compelling backstory.

                                                        2. re: Firegoat

                                                          Geeze I am a grump but just sayin...

                                                          1. re: madeliner

                                                            So a modern ranch gal can't offer up her version of pioneer life? Why?
                                                            All this ram a jammin on PW is so confusing. Her fan base clearly sees no issue here.

                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                              She can do whatever she wants but a house that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars just doesn't see very "pioneer" to me

                                                              "1.
                                                              a person who is among those who first enter or settle a region, thus opening it for occupation and development by others. "

                                                              Maybe if you consider a trite 'idea' or 'lifestyle' product to fall under the definition of a pioneer-well more power to you.

                                                              I consider Julia Child a pioneer in getting cooking out as something to take seriously -not a well coiffed woman who dubs herself "pioneer woman" and goes on 'the view'

                                                              Please-if she called it 'down on the really expensive ranch" that would work, otherwise nah

                                                              I can't comment on her fan base-I don't know what it is but I think it might be scary.

                                                              Yep I'm a grump

                                                              1. re: madeliner

                                                                hold the chicken, madeliner :) Julia Child was also very comfortable financially...does that make her somehow more spoiled at her profession than someone who struggled? If the criteria for success is based on what a person had beforehand, then golly gee...that list is pretty darn long.

                                                                Blog fans helped PW get where she's going and the very idea that her "arrival" someone now turns off people now speaks volumes....and has little to do with Ree Drummond's life and more to do with the level of jealousy and meanness that sometimes comes with popularity...especially behind a keyboard.

                                                                OTOH, it's your absolute right to be a grump...grumps make a good living blogging too :)

                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                  hmmm maybe I should start a blog :D

                                                                  I'll look at her site - not good to judge without seeing what all the hoopla is about, but I still think the 'pioneer' part just doesn't fit

                                                                  1. re: madeliner

                                                                    cool, and if you start your own blog-don't hesitate to share it...I'd check it out :)

                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                      +1, i'd check out your blog.....

                                                                      Re: the pioneer thing, it's just a name like anything else. She seems pretty rural to my thinking.

                                                                    2. re: madeliner

                                                                      just pick a name that fits you well two years from how when it goes viral :)

                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                        Thanks HillJ and paulJ maybe I will but I can't figure on a theme. I have grumpy rants on a few different websites with completely different topics-maybe I should just throw them up.

                                                                        (figuratively speaking of course :P)

                                                                        1. re: madeliner

                                                                          The Angry Bulimic. I'd probably watch an episode.

                                                                          1. re: Firegoat

                                                                            LOLOL! I love that :)

                                                                            aka what goes down must come up

                                                                            1. re: madeliner

                                                                              Breaking the law of gravity with willful abandon.

                                                                              1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                another good one !

                                                                      2. re: madeliner

                                                                        I think it's not supposed to be literal. I think it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek funny. Now whether it's funny is a whole different matter. :)

                                                              2. re: Firegoat

                                                                After watching the first show with chicken fried steak, mashed pots with butter/cream cheese/heavy cream/more butter and the tomato salad the hubby did not want, plus the Texas toast breakfast sandwiches...I declare her the 2nd most dangerous woman in America:)

                                                                1. re: BubblyOne

                                                                  LOL I might have to agree with your post and with Bourdain after all-yikes

                                                                  1. re: BubblyOne

                                                                    That food is typical of what is fed to ranch hands. They can use the extra calories based on the physical exertion that is necessary to have the energy to get through their day. While I would not choose to eat that way, they have a completely different lifestyle and set of needs. Just because they are well off ranchers does not make the work any less physical.

                                                                    1. re: baseballfan

                                                                      A point she made numerous times during the show. Got it.

                                                                      1. re: baseballfan

                                                                        I WAS a ranch hand for the better part of 2007, at the age of 45. I ran a cutting horse ranch in Memphis, TN with 50 head of horses and around 300 head of cattle. 14-16 hour days, 6 days a week, physically demanding. I had to eat massive quantities of food to just maintain my weight, but I ate healthy, high carb, low fat meals, not the artery-clogging stuff she seems to favor. In fact, all my friends who do this for a living eat healthy!

                                                                  2. I've been enjoying her blog for years and have tried several of her recipes with great success. She's witty and funny and her recipes always make me smile a little bit when I'm reading through them. Her photography is stunning. I don't really care that she's wealthy already or that she got a lucky break or that she's using a moniker that others think is not authentic. She cooks food I enjoy cooking and we enjoy eating (not every day, but occasionally)... and if more people can hear about her recipes and that gets them into the kitchen instead of going through the drive thru again, more power to her. I'm glad that her talent and knowledge of marketing herself has paid off for her. Too many talented people never get a break or just don't know how to break into the biz.

                                                                    I think it's sad that some people can't stand others' success, and their defense is criticism. That's too bad.

                                                                    2 Replies
                                                                    1. re: velochic

                                                                      well said.....and I enjoyed the show. I felt it was filmed like Ina...which I love...and stayed true to the blog.

                                                                      1. re: LaLa

                                                                        I read that the camera/production crew working on PW's new show also worked on Ina's show. Thus, the same look and feel.

                                                                    2. I finally watched the show late last night. I've read her blog/love story, follow her on Twitter (she's got a great sense of humor), and own her cookbook. I also made my first recipe of hers this weekend (Sherried Tomato Soup). The recipe was excellent, just the right balance of flavors. I didn't need to adjust anything.

                                                                      As for the show, I was underwhelmed. It seemed way over-produced. She looked uncomfortable and seemed to be trying to be her instead of just being her. I thought her husband was more comfortable/relaxes than she was. She does live TV all the time (GMA, Today, etc.) so I would think she would be looser on tape.

                                                                      They structred the show much like Barefoot Contessa, where there is a story for the day and she has to make food for it. But the non-cooking parts seemed so forced and scripted and the cooking parts seemed rehearsed or at least told a million times so that her joking seemed forced.

                                                                      I like her. I will buy her book when it comes out. I will see the movie made from the book and I will probably continue to watch the show.

                                                                      But it could be so much better. They have so much to work with and such a great personality to work with.

                                                                      11 Replies
                                                                      1. re: Manassas64

                                                                        I'm with others above - that voice. I love her blog and her love story but really wasn't ready for that voice. I will see if my ears and mind can adjust before I write her tv persona off.

                                                                        1. re: Manassas64

                                                                          I going to agree with you. The first show I saw was the one that showed her sons birthday party at the end. I just didn't warm up to her. Perhaps that will get better, but I get the same vibe from Barefoot Contessa's cooking show. Reading up, that might have something to do with the way its filmed if the comment about them having the same crew is true.

                                                                          Me too, it's nothing personal but she comes off stiff or is it over rehearsed, maybe that's what I get. Hopefully that will change.

                                                                          1. re: chef chicklet

                                                                            From what I've read on PW's site the entire 6 episodes are already shot and that's it for now. No immediate plans or offers to continue a PW show. It was specifically created to be a short run, on her family ranch. So whatever stiffness or over-rehearsed points we're seeing isn't going to change this time around anyway; it is what it is. The show is an extension of her popular blog, books and personal story ...which led Ree to this FN point anyway. I wasn't wowed by the show because Ree is a better storyteller than FN crews are, but her voice doesn't bother me one bit. If I can listen to Paula Deen y'all...I can listen to Ree.

                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                              ummm, nope her voice is fine, I don't think it was me that had issue with it.
                                                                              When she spoke on the program I just didn't see much life, which is strange because she does take wonder photos and has been blogging and talking about her life on the ranch and she comes across rather passionately. Could be that its' just her personality. I have followed her blog for a few years now. Actually just to check out what she's cooking mostly looking for something new. I think her recipes are okay, and agree with her that they do look "simple and scrumptious."

                                                                              1. re: chef chicklet

                                                                                I'm with others above - that voice. I love her blog and her love story but really wasn't ready for that voice. I will see if my ears and mind can adjust before I write her tv persona off.
                                                                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                                                I was referring to this part of the thread, cc. I have yet to use a PW adapted recipe myself. But I do like the volume of attention someone like PW brings to all food bloggers. That makes me very happy.

                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                  now I'm trying to remember her voice... I'll just have to wait until the weekend I guess.

                                                                                  She did pick a great name for her blog, I gotta admit that! ;-)

                                                                            2. re: chef chicklet

                                                                              I thought she seemed uncomfortable, too, to the point where it made me cringe a bit, but I will continue to watch because there is so little to watch on TV and it's only 6 episodes.

                                                                              Her husband comes across more naturally, imo. I'd actually be interested in a bit more detail about the cattle ranching operations. On the last episode, they were spraying down the cattle with water, but what for? Cool the cattle down? Clean them? For fun? :)

                                                                              1. re: emily

                                                                                Cooling them down.

                                                                                Standard procedure when the weather's extremely hot.

                                                                                Cattle consume huge quantities of water one way or another.

                                                                                1. re: emily

                                                                                  If anyone watched the early Giada shows, she seemed very shy and un-natural. I'm sure if given time, PW will get better.

                                                                                  1. re: emily

                                                                                    You illustrate why they run the NFNS program - they don't just want a cook, they want some who is comfortable on camera, and makes the viewers comfortable. Being popular in one medium (in this case, blogging) does not automatically translate into popularity in another. And given all the choices, TV audiences can be unforgiving. Click right away, or be lost.

                                                                                    1. re: emily

                                                                                      You're correct emily, he did. I gotta watch the rest of her episodes, then we'll see.

                                                                                2. The show was corny and overproduced and her husband seemed surly.

                                                                                  I dont htink I'll bother watching more.

                                                                                  1. I've only caught two episodes but I'm having a hard time accepting the title "Chef" Ree. Is it really fair to endorse PW this way? Chef, food photographer?

                                                                                    Up until now I've been pretty fair to Ree's popular blog evolution (given the countless hits she rec's online) but after this last FN episode, I just find it unfair to chefs and pro. food photographers everywhere that her title has been upgraded with no credentials beyond her personal blog to back it up.

                                                                                    While I recognize the spotlight can elevate a persons profile, credentials should be earned.

                                                                                    61 Replies
                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                      Really? They're calling her a chef? That's just silly.

                                                                                      1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                        FN is; I haven't actually seen/read Ree refer to herself as a Chef.
                                                                                        But she should correct it.

                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                          When and where would you expect her to correct this reference? I imagine all the episodes on the air now were shot months ago. Would an 'apology' on her blog do? Maybe a statement at a book signing - except how would the general world hear that?

                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                            Funny paulj, I can think of any number of ways. But like many of us on CH I was giving my personal take...in this instance on Ree's titles, chef & food photographer.

                                                                                            According to Ree's blog the filming was done over a two week period this summer and is currently winding down it's run of 6 FN episodes. And she writes that her relationship with FN seems to be ongoing and who knows what projects will come her way next. But title without credential...that can be corrected moving forward.

                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                              I watched the program with her cooking a pot roast on Sunday. I didn't hear any reference to "Chef Ree". I'd read comments here earlier so I was tuned in as much as I could be. I actually thought the episode was better, more relaxed. It's much more than a cooking show, seems their formatting it after her blog by including her family life on the ranch, her children and her day to day life. Very different that's for sure. Time will tell.

                                                                                              1. re: chef chicklet

                                                                                                It's the Food Network that placed the words Chef Ree in motion. The title appears in the FN magazine, FN digest, FN blog and in the cable television listing. The food photographer title was said several times during the show according to my professional food stylist partners at work.

                                                                                                From what I gather reading PW's blog, next week is the last episode from the series on her ranch. I only saw a portion of the show today.

                                                                                                Like I mentioned, I recognize the spotlight can elevate a persons profile, but professional credentials are earned.

                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                  FN's primary description of her is " a writer, photographer, ranch wife and mother of four. "

                                                                                                  So far the only 'chef ree' that a google search turns up is in the title of this video (though the phrase is not used by speaker).
                                                                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuKtV...
                                                                                                  By the way, this video has more than 20 minutes of QA.

                                                                                                  1. re: paulj

                                                                                                    paulj, when I set my television to the FN the pop up describing the show said, Chef Ree prepares.....just one example.

                                                                                                    The primary/original description of the six episodes has changed six ways to Sunday across the Net, text supplied by FN and others.

                                                                                                    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab...

                                                                                                    knock yourself out, paulj...there's plenty...just keeping hitting the forward button. Doesn't matter "how many" references; there shouldn't be any.

                                                                                                    If you don't agree, that's fine. Doesn't change why it bothers me. I'm not at all sure how/when this chef title started but come on, PW is a popular, passionate home cook.

                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                      Your search pulled up items using any of those words, and is basically the same as what I found.

                                                                                                      But if you try an exact word search, i.e, on "Chef Ree"
                                                                                                      http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Che...
                                                                                                      I don't find anything originating with FN. That National Book Festival item pops up a number of times.

                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                        paulj, i'm not referring only to FN although the tv guide read Chef Ree. But, some of the countries newspapers and magazines that have interviewed Ree Drummond have begun to call her chef. Good Morning America used it.

                                                                                                        http://www.seriouseats.com/2007/07/my...

                                                                                                        a quick example I'm aware of w/out the use of Google.

                                                                                                      2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                        mine does not say that on my dvr or descrpitions

                                                                                                    2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                      Yes, I do understand what you're saying. Oh and I was listening for 'Chef Ree' references in particular. Now I want to change my own handle.

                                                                                                      1. re: chef chicklet

                                                                                                        too funny, I thought the pot roast actually looked over done and dry on camera but I don't add potatoes to my pot roast either for the same reason Ree gave, texture doesn't appeal to me. But I do add other veggies and alot more flavor than a few sprigs of herbs. PW's mashed potatoes are very rich tho so maybe that's why she tones down the pot roast.

                                                                                                        And yes you do understand what I'm saying, thank you. And I have seen quotes where Ree refers to herself as a home cook who's learned a great deal about food from community, family and friends and countless CHEFS that have inspired her.

                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                          Yes it had the same look as a pot roast in the crock pot, but I'm sure it was tasty. Me too, love them mashed potatoes with the pot roast. But hey where's the gravy? Must have that too...powder that thing up before you brown it and stuff some cloves into that bad boy Ree, and a little red wine wouldn't of hurt either. LOL!

                                                                                                      2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                        i am confused by the difference in Ree and "professional food stylist partners at work"...they make money from doing the same thing...which is being a professional...
                                                                                                        I am not being snarky...I just dont get the difference.

                                                                                                        1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                          Oh I don't hear snark at all Lala. I'm not being (or at least did not intend to be snarky here. I'm reacting to a change in my understanding of the PW brand). Ree is not a professional chef. She's not professionally trained as a chef. She does not refer to herself as a professional chef. And yet, the PR coming out lately is using the credential CHEF beside her name. Regarding professional food stylist reaction, they are paid for their professional credentails as food stylists...not chefs...not book authors..etc. My point is we should be credited with earned titles and credentials if we have them and not unearned titles. A credential has meaning.

                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                            gotcha...the orginal concern was lost in the mix up thread...but I see what your saying. bUT i ALSO THINK THAT THEY LINES HAVE BEEN BLURRED SO MUCH it is hard to know whats what anymore...i think every profession has their quirk, When I was a realtor , full time , highly trained realtors got very upset with being lumped in with part time sell a house a year realtors.

                                                                                                            1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                              Oh I hear ya but in your example a real estate agent can't sell a lick without the proper credentials....good reasons for that.

                                                                                                            2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                              I'm with you that Ree Drummond is not a chef, but the term chef has become so diluted these days as to refer to

                                                                                                              - actual professional chefs who run professional kitchens, and
                                                                                                              - anyone who hangs out a shingle as cooking type person of some sort, and
                                                                                                              - anyone who considers themselves better than the average home cook,

                                                                                                              AT THE SAME TIME, that I've just given up making any distinction. :)

                                                                                                              1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                I hear ya, inapl. But I'll never get to that point in my own head. Credentials matter to me and to every hard working pro I know. The dumb down, watered down use of any industry word isn't helped by acceptance.

                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                  FWIW, I still use chef the way you use chef. You are not alone. :)

                                                                                                                  1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                    ha. Didn't think I was. Folks like Fowler there who can poke fun at my perspective are a dime a dozen.

                                                                                                              2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                sorry where is the pr you are referring to? Because I just read her FN page and it doesnt say the word chef anywhere.

                                                                                                                1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                  http://www.foodnetwork.com/ree-drummo...

                                                                                                                  http://www.foodnetwork.com/chefs/star...

                                                                                                                  let's see if you see what I'm seeing, LaLa.

                                                                                                                  At the heading of this FN page is a nice photo of Ree wearing a cowgirl hat

                                                                                                                  to the right of her face are the words HOSTS & CHEFS while the video to her FN show runs. The second shows a tag to the left that leads you to Chefs-Star Kitchen-Ree Drummond.

                                                                                                                  I'd call that more than a small reference to use the word CHEF beside her name on the FN gig.

                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                    So she is grouped with 'Hosts & Chefs' - does she qualify as a Host? But wait, she's listed on this 'chefs' page
                                                                                                                    http://www.foodnetwork.com/chefs/inde...

                                                                                                                    Well, duh, so is RR, Hungry girl, Ted Alan, Sandra, and their latest star, Sandwich Jeff. They don't have a separate category for 'hosts who don't qualify as chefs'. She isn't a show, she isn't a recipe. She's a person, and closest match is 'chefs'.

                                                                                                                    If the genuine chefs on FN's roster, ones like Alton, Duff and Giada, object to being grouped with the non-chefs let them speak up and defend the profession. They will have a lot more influence on this matter than you or I. :)

                                                                                                                    Even a sometime Chow participant Troy Johnson
                                                                                                                    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/782692
                                                                                                                    has a FN 'chefs' page
                                                                                                                    http://www.foodnetwork.com/troy-johns...

                                                                                                                    The fundamental problem is that FN does not have a clear two tier system, distinguishing between chefs who have earned their stripes (burn scars on their arms?), and the others who are mere authors, stars or TV personalities.

                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                      Just for discussion's sake, I would like to throw it out there that Alton and Giada aren't really chefs by HillJ's standards either (if I understand correctly)...

                                                                                                                      1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                        hi inap. I stand by my comments earlier today....and life goes on.

                                                                                                                        1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                          Would TV pioneers, James Beard and Julia Child, qualify as chefs?

                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                            By the standards being discussed, James Beard, possibly, and Julia Child, probably not. This isn't about not giving them proper credit for their contribution to food and cooking in general, which is great, but to make the distinction between a chef who runs a professional kitchen and has certain skills and experience that Ree Drummond, Alton Brown, Giada de Laurentiis, and any number of other famous food personalities don't.

                                                                                                                            It's about acknowledging that it takes more than being a good, or even great, cook to be a chef. I doubt very much that any of the aforementioned Food Network personalities could run a busy commercial kitchen for one night, and they'd probably find it challenging just to work a simple salad or grill station in some very high pressure kitchens.

                                                                                                                            Given her time in France, I doubt Julia Child would have called herself a chef, either, for that matter. Quoted from her 40th Anniversary Edition to Mastering the Art of French Cooking:

                                                                                                                            “Why The French Chef, since I am neither the one nor the other? The first reason was that I always hoped we would have some real French chefs on the shows,” Child explains. “We never managed that until later on. The second and more important reason: the title was short, it described the shows as real French cooking, and, of equal significance, it fit on a single line in the TV guides.”

                                                                                                                            There's no shame in being a great cook. Come to think of it, maybe there's more honor in calling oneself that if that is what one is than to borrow the prestige of someone who has had to toil for years in the pressure cooker that is a busy commercial kitchen in order to acquire the skills necessary to be the chef who runs it without earning it. :)

                                                                                                                            1. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                              From a 2004 Nightline interview:

                                                                                                                              MICHEL MARTIN: You always call yourself a cook and not a chef. What's the difference?

                                                                                                                              JULIA CHILD: Yes. Well, a chef is, is in a restaurant and he has a whole platoon of people working for him, him or her. The head of a culinary establishment. I'm a cook and a teacher. And an eater.

                                                                                                                              1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                So a chef is just a manager? A suit?

                                                                                                                                Ruhlman, in Reach of Chef, talks quite a bit about chefs trading in the white coat for the business suit, especially if they want to move beyond managing/owning one restaurant.

                                                                                                                                1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                  I don't think that's what's implied at all. A chef is first an exceptional cook who then must acquire other time, inventory, people and workflow management skills in order to be able to successfully run a busy commercial kitchen.

                                                                                                                                  A great home cook, or even great television cooking personality, without those other skills, is not a chef.

                                                                                                                                  Just for the sake of discussion - Trying to discredit the argument that some are making (myself included) about the difference by minimizing the definition of chef to something none of us intended, implied or stated, doesn't make sense.

                                                                                                                                2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                  Thanks, Trish. Another reason to respect Julia Child. Not only was she a culinary pioneer, but she called it like it was, and unapologetically so.

                                                                                                                            2. re: inaplasticcup

                                                                                                                              how are they not really chefs...Giadia is professionally trained
                                                                                                                              "She eventually made the decision to commence a culinary career and began her professional training at Le Cordon Bleu in Paris, specializing in both cuisine and pastry. Following, she returned to Los Angeles, where her training included positions at the prestigious Ritz Carlton Fine Dining Room and Wolfgang Puck’s Spago in Beverly Hills. She later founded GDL Foods, a catering company in Los Angeles."
                                                                                                                              and alton trained at New England Culinary Institute

                                                                                                                              1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                If Giada and Alton both ran/managed professional kitchens staffed by a reasonable number of other staff for a sufficient amount of time (that is to say, longer than just enough time to be able to mention that you did it in half truth telling fashion), I stand corrected.

                                                                                                                                However, I will say that having been trained in a culinary school in and of itself does not a chef make imo.

                                                                                                                            3. re: paulj

                                                                                                                              paulj, I've followed many of your comments here on CH regarding the FN. Which is why I'm taking your many points here in this OP in that context. This thread is about the PW and what's been a very interesting journey for her since beginning a blog in 2006. At no time did I anticipate a discussion here about every host on the FN. You asked for PROOF of my dismay over the title Chef associated with the new PW brand. I gave you several examples. Beyond that specific give and take between us on this thread I have no comment. I do not know enough about any of the other FN personalities to join in. I tried to stay focused on the OP discussion. Your explanation to me about the fundamentals of FN doesn't change my opinion of how the word chef is being associated with this very popular and lovely food blogger recently entering the FN scene.

                                                                                                                            4. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                              as is every single personality on the food network...what I see is they lump them ALL together.

                                                                                                                              1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                Maybe FN should add a 'hat hierarchy' to their chefs lineup; something along the line of the classic white toque.
                                                                                                                                "The height of your hat usually corresponded with your rank. Sauce cooks and bakers wore little more than a cap, the supervising chefs had a beret or a small pleated toque, and the head chef donned a towering toque of starched white, with pleats numbering the ways he knew how to cook an egg (up to 100 pleats). "
                                                                                                                                http://www.squidoo.com/chefhats

                                                                                                                                1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                  I see that too (grouping together the FN personalities) on the website & heading. But, FN press was only one very recent example anyway and it wasn't my intention to compare long running FN shows with a six episode program on PW blog story. Her titles, as mixmatched and growing as they may be, remain my pause button. I've already stated how I feel about credentials being earned and accurate. My own pet peeve I'm afraid. With all that Ree has accomplished as a food blogger in such a sort period of time there's plenty to write about. Three books published. Countless sponsors. A real and often envied (& mocked) following on the Net. What appears to be a lovely family life. The PW brand has alot going for it.

                                                                                                                                  Throughout her writings, Ree is fond of saying "just keeping it real." Well, I suppose that's what I'm calling her on.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                    What I call "Keeping it real" has nothing to do with her credentials as a chef and more to do with what is really "real". and I also call her on it.

                                                                                                                                    She is a homeschooling mother who has a teacher employed. She is a pioneer woman who also employs a housekeeper. She is out in the middle of nowhere pioneering on..5 miles from a grocery store. She allows Mustangs on her land for the horses benefit and forgets to mention that her family also benefits monetarily for their generousity.. No..her chef credentials aren't what bothers me about her blog or her show. Especially if you are truly "Keeping it Real"

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Robinez

                                                                                                                                      None of your complaints have anything against "keeping it real." She's hardly the first homeschooling parent to hire a part time teacher for specialist subjects. She's also hardly the first ranch wife to have domestic help. And receiving payments for maintaining mustangs isn't here or there. Almost all farmers in the US, small or large, receive subsidies of some type.

                                                                                                                                      Even a very casual and infrequent visitor to her blog as I am can tell that the Drummonds are very comfortably well-off people. Yet at the same time they have chosen to be hard workers and hands-on ranchers. Their children aren't la de dah-ing in the party scene of Manhattan or Palm Beach. I imagine that's a great part of what "keeping it real" means to the Drummonds.

                                                                                                                                      Still, I agree with the posters below that it's unfair to call Pioneer Woman a chef. But her blog has always been a lifestyle blog rather than solely a cooking blog and she's unapologetic that she's portraying food she likes to cook (as well as photography and personal memoirs). She doesn't attempt to teach people how to cook, she simply shows the recipes she likes to make. As for the Food Network, I imagine a major part of their audience are people who don't want or need to learn how to cook, but are simply looking for inspiration for the next meal or just a pretty show to watch, so while I wouldn't have nominated Pioneer woman for her own cooking show, I'm not opposed to her being on the Food Network either.

                                                                                                                2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                  She is a chef as defined by the dictionary. The term "chef" does not denote anything other than someone who cooks.

                                                                                                                  From dictionary.com:

                                                                                                                  chef
                                                                                                                     [shef] Show IPA
                                                                                                                  noun
                                                                                                                  1.
                                                                                                                  the chief cook, especially in a restaurant or hotel, usually responsible for planning menus, ordering foodstuffs, overseeing food preparation, and supervising the kitchen staff.
                                                                                                                  2.
                                                                                                                  any cook.

                                                                                                                  From Merriam-Webster.com:

                                                                                                                  Definition of CHEF
                                                                                                                  1
                                                                                                                  : a skilled cook who manages the kitchen (as of a restaurant)
                                                                                                                  2
                                                                                                                  : cook

                                                                                                                  I personally think people take this title too seriously.

                                                                                                                  1. re: dani1908

                                                                                                                    An opinion you're entitled to. Are you doing so with the chef credential or without, dani1908?

                                                                                                                    By her own definition, Ree Drummond is not a professional cook but a home cook.

                                                                                                                    CHEF Noun: A professional cook. source: Merriam-Webster.

                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                      It wasn't too long ago that the only title we would have given Ree was Mrs.! :(

                                                                                                                      1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                        It wasn't too long ago that *just* the proud & earned title of "professional bloggers" (which she is paid well for) would have been more than enough. A title earned and rewarded for. She's a published author. Plenty of cred without having to borrow uncred. titles. (imho, of course.)

                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                          In the one example that I found, it is clear the title (or descriptor) was bestowed on her by someone unconnected with the food industry. She did not 'borrow' it. I suspect the other cases that you found fall in the same category. Even if she makes a disclaimer some place or other (like RR has done), 'I am not a chef', it isn't going to stop the general media (including TVGuide) from describing her as such.

                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                            paulj, I don't believe that's the case and I'll share why. The PW camp has site moderators, a PR firm, a publishing house w/support, a television co. and the like behind it now.

                                                                                                                            People hired and involved in the PW brand. General media, pr, marketing, live and taped appearances, sponsors, contracts, tv shows and interviews fall to this group of people supporting the brand.

                                                                                                                            PW is no RR. PW since 2006. This media blitz since last year. Apples and oranges...at least for now.

                                                                                                                          2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                            You must have been REALLY upset when Bob Keeshan started calling himself Captain Kangaroo. He was not a real Captain you know and never earned that title. :-)

                                                                                                                            1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                              Rather than address your sense of humor I'll play along and say a STAGE NAME...Ree's is Pioneer Woman...just like the ACTOR Captain Kangaroo aren't my issue. Earned, professional credentials are. Did Captain K like the title actor with a stage name, public following, career behind those credentials...I bet he did.

                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                I'm just giving you a hard time, HillJ. I don't think people should misrepresent their credentials. I have never even watched the show so I do not know what she claimed. Fair enough?

                                                                                                                                1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                  HillJ - I completely agree with you. RR immediately corrected Jay Leno when she was introduced by him as a "chef" Many professions are protected by law - not sure about chef or a professionally trained cook???? Do they have to be licensed or certified or anything like that to teach or run a restaurant? My understanding is that Ree Drummond has never had any training as a cook, chef or any other experience related to food other than cooking for her family.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: Bethcooks

                                                                                                                                    hi Bethcooks. We're not alone in our perspective here on CH or elsewhere.
                                                                                                                                    Ree has no formal training as a chef, no professional cred as a chef but has carved a fine lifestyle blog out for herself that has paved the way for published work. The popularity of her writing has launched a brand and for that she is earning cred among bloggers worldwide. Her audience is very real-her chef title is not.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                      I suspect most agree PW is not a "chef", but I would like to hear your precise qualifications for what makes a "chef", hillj.

                                                                                                                                      And don't worry about offending those that call themselves "personal chefs".

                                                                                                                                      1. re: Sailing77

                                                                                                                                        http://www.culinology.com/
                                                                                                                                        My quick answer at this hour, I'm still grading papers, is to point you to this website. Where I work hard and at this godly hour read papers to help assist those preparing for a career.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                          Would it be ok to call her Culinarian Ree?

                                                                                                                                          --------------------------------

                                                                                                                                          http://www.acfchefs.org/Content/Navig...
                                                                                                                                          has a list of the ACF Certifications

                                                                                                                                      2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                        I quite agree that her chef title is not real - but in a different sense than you.

                                                                                                                                        I don't see anyone knowledgeable giving her that title. The instances of 'chef ree' that I've seen have been coined by journalists/editors with little knowledge of professional cooking. That includes the widely disseminated video of her appearance at a book show in 2010. 'chef' appears in the title of the video, not in the spoken introduction. And on FN she is included in the list of 'hosts and chefs' (shortened to 'chefs' as web page label). Without some sort of 'hat hierarchy' they could not do otherwise.

                                                                                                                                        There is a sense in this thread that describing TV cooks/hosts as chefs demeans the profession. I agree that such usage blurs the meaning of the term, but overall, 'TV chefs' have elevated the status of the profession (with the exception of the Swedish Chef). They may not have improved the general public's understanding of the profession, but they have added to its visibility and popularity. (Reference: M Ruhlman's The Reach of a Chef).

                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                          Like all of us discussing here, you're entitled to your pov, paulj. The topic is only as complex as we're willing to make it. For the record, I have nothing against the PW brand.

                                                                                                                                      3. re: Bethcooks

                                                                                                                                        In most counties you need a Food Handlers Card. To be a chef you might even need an extra supervisory level card.

                                                                                                                                        1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                          I'm sorry but Pioneer Woman is not a cooking show. It's a lifestyle show that features a way of life that has become "quaint" to those who don't live in the major metro areas and the political overtones are troublesome.

                                                                                                                                          Throwing a pot roast into the oven with a box of fake beef broth and a few vegetables does not even qualify her as a good cook, forget chef. Maybe I'm too political, but what freaked me out is the emphasis on homeschooling and going to church. Oh yeah, and the guns. This show should be on the Inspiration Channel or RFD.

                                                                                                                                          I find her absolutely lame and uncreative. There is nothing I can or have ever learned from her and have no interest in continuing to watch this show. She was in the right place at the right time, probably has a few good contacts and has a good "hook" for her marketing people. That's all. More mediocrity on the Food Network, which I only watch for Ina anyway. They have completely trashed that channel. Thank god for Cooking Channel and Create.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: sandiasingh

                                                                                                                                            I'm replying to sandiasingh's post specifically only because it includes some of the observations that interest me most. I am fascinated by the sociological & psychological characteristics of wildly popular female bloggers. Among female bloggers who derive from a primarily academic space rather than a traditional female space, Kate Clancy is a true phenomenon and very well may be surpassed in success only by Drummond. One of the goals I have is to study these fascinating cases as objectively as possible, and it particularly interests me to attempt to identify similarities between these women that might describe a successful strategy. In any event, a number of my very tentative and speculative ideas about all of this are detailed in one of my blogposts. In my opinion, each of these women has some characteristics shared by Oprah (eg a seemingly unique ability to attract other (mostly) women of their own demographic, in OW's & RD's case, other middle- upper- middle class women, in KC's case, other young professional women. I am very interested in differences between Drummond & Clancy, also, and what they might mean (e.g., Clancy is much younger). I understand that this post is not specifically about food etc but I wanted to suggest another way to look at these interesting cases. For what it is worth, I agree with those of you who perceive Drummond to appear uncomfortable on her show. Also, I thought that she overdid the wife thing & hung on her husband etc in a manner that made me uncomfortable and that led me to perceive her as controlling? insecure?--not sure about this.

                                                                                                                                          2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                            In chuckwagon days, the cook was often called 'cookie'. Apparently these days a similar job on a ranch has the title/description of 'ranch cook'. One dude ranch describes duties as:
                                                                                                                                            http://www.duderanchjobs.com/job_deta...

                                                                                                                                            "Job Description
                                                                                                                                            Responsible for preparing meals for 50 persons each day. Three meals a day are served with the cook mainly responsible for breakfast and dinner. The workday usually begins at 6 a.m. each day with a long break in the afternoon and returning to the kitchen for dinner preparation. Our weekly meal schedule does not change. Person must enjoy working in the kitchen, be organized, able to maintain a clean work area, supervise five employees. Able to control food storage and inventory. Must be able to follow instructions and have knowledge of basic cooking."

                                                                                                                    2. Regarding the status of chefs, this interview with Jacques Pépin, where he talks about the role of chefs in France when he apprenticed there, and his early cooking acquaintances in the USA, and the rise of chefs in America since then.

                                                                                                                      http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/...

                                                                                                                      1. FN will continue the tv program as Ree Drummond will be shooting a “Christmas on the Ranch” holiday special, which will air in December, then some new shows will begin airing in January.

                                                                                                                        37 Replies
                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                          Saw the Christmas special Saturday. Very nicely done IMHO. Where do they get their meat? The beef was amazing looking. We have had prime rib from Whole Foods and Costco that doesn't come close.

                                                                                                                          1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                            I would say it's their meat since they are beef cattle operation.

                                                                                                                            1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                              According to her blog, from the local supermarket.

                                                                                                                              I have followed her blog for years and I remember a recipe post where she showed a picture of beef in its supermarket packaging.

                                                                                                                              Someone asked as question along the lines of “why are you buying beef from the supermarket when you raise beef cattle?”

                                                                                                                              Her response was that her family prefers the taste of corn feed beef.

                                                                                                                              1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                i enjoyed the Christmas special too...i thought she seemed much more comfortable

                                                                                                                                1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                  Although the menu didn't wow me....and I can't imagine preparing a 9-hour mushroom dish Ree has definately found her comfort zone on camera. I'd love to know where she found those silver tinsel earrings she wore during one of the food segments. I loved the way they moved. Season 2 of PW Cooks begins on the FN next month.

                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                    I think she does a really good job bumping up "Dirty Recipes That Are Crowd Pleasers" and I was a fan of her blog and still am. The Christmas cake that her MIL makes every year is a bumped up version of a sherry cake I've been bringing to church or office affairs for years and I'm going to make it tomorrow. It's a rum cake in a bundt pan with a rum sugar butter- pedestrian but very good.

                                                                                                                                    1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                      Recipe??? :)

                                                                                                                                      1. re: buttertart

                                                                                                                                        Here's a link to it on her site:

                                                                                                                                        http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/20...

                                                                                                                                        1. re: Boudleaux

                                                                                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                                                                                          1. re: Boudleaux

                                                                                                                                            Boudleaux- Thanks for the link.

                                                                                                                                            It's interesting that, in her description of making the cake, she's talking the ability to eyeball measurement by the Cajun Chef.

                                                                                                                                            She goes on to say:

                                                                                                                                            Only problem is, I’m not Cajun.
                                                                                                                                            I’m also not a chef.
                                                                                                                                            :)

                                                                                                                                            1. re: sccrash

                                                                                                                                              Indeed!

                                                                                                                                        2. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                          I made that cake several times and it was a hit each a each event. I have cooked a lot of her dishes. Some were good and I have them in my weeknight rotation and some were so-so but that cake was a crowd pleaser.

                                                                                                                                          1. re: cleobeach

                                                                                                                                            That Rum Cake recipe is as old as the hills, not her mother in law's creation. I guess I would like it if Paula Deen, Ree, and others would acknowledge when they are reposting a recipe that is very much out there in the public domain and not something they or their loved ones dreamed up.

                                                                                                                                            1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                              I've read areas of Ree's blog where she talks about and refers to hand me down recipes, church suppers where she learned about community recipes and older recipe collections. What I find more astounding is that these recipes are repackaged in NEW cookbooks with no mention of their origin or history/age by publishers/editors who know better. Originality where have you gone?

                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                HillJ, I agree with you! Also, I don't generally read her blog, but the recipe as described on here sounded familiar, so I clicked and saw she called this her mother in law's recipe and then made a song and dance over it because it uses a boxed cake and pudding mix and still tastes good. I guess this is why I don't generally read her blog.

                                                                                                                                                As they say, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, wore the T-shirt, lost 50 lbs, bought a new one.

                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                  Where has originality gone, you ask? I am fairly sure that if you showed me the recipes you or anyone else may claim to be their own "original" recipes, those recipes were somehow done before during the history of mankind.

                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                    Very few things out there are completely original.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                      Then just cop to it, right? Being original is hard.
                                                                                                                                                      I have not made a recipe from PW as yet but I do enjoy some of her photos and her general upbeat attitude with readers.

                                                                                                                                                    2. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                      Hi Fowler, happy holiday.

                                                                                                                                                      Here, I was referring to the repackaging of a recipe under a new brand sold as new material. Giving credit to the original recipe, sharing the history, etc. when money is being made I believe is a valid point.

                                                                                                                                                      I have no problem taking credit for something I've actually earned the right to claim as original and no problem crediting others when they do the heavy lifting. Especially when money is involved. So yes, being original is hard and credit should be earned.

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                        But considering the billions of people that have lived on this planet, I doubt that one can claim they have the unique original recipe.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                          While the history of how PW came to find/use/adapt those recipe can be shared and should be shared if she is publishing a cookbook of recipes she did not write....and is earning a living doing so.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                            I am AGREEING with you HillJ. Please go back and read all of what I typed. No one should be claiming their recipe is their own.

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                              Np, Fowler whether you did or not actually. I thought we were discussing this a bit.

                                                                                                                                                  2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                    "It’s but one in a sea of rum cake recipes, but because it’s so easy and so delicious, I feel compelled to share."

                                                                                                                                                    Could you post a link to another rum cake that is close to hers?

                                                                                                                                                    There's a recent thread (in Home cooking I believe) that asks the question 'when does a recipe become your own'.

                                                                                                                                                    I don't think Ree is making strong claims about the originality of this recipe. When she writes that this is her MIL's recipe, I take that mean simply that her MIL makes it regularly, and Ree got the recipe from her. In the informal world of shared and hand-me-down recipes that's enough to establish 'ownership'.

                                                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                      Among family and friends, absolutely. Ree Drummond, the PW, is selling those recipes to the public in the form of a revenue streamed blog and a series of cookbooks, tv shows, blog conference presenter, etc. Her casual style in front of the public is different than her professional career behind it. I suppose my only real issue with Ree is that she's making a good deal of money (while more power to her for finding her niche) without revealing her varied sources and team (the people writing her blog, the gal that homeschools with her, the team behind her brand AND the recipes from which she spins her own adaptation). But that's just me.

                                                                                                                                                      At this stage in her career, according to food publishing notes, (4 published books, FN contract, $20K raised for a charity this holiday, a million a year from the blog), I'd hope for more acknowledgement.

                                                                                                                                                      pauj, have you read the acknowledgement inside her first cookbook?

                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                        Well said, HillJ. I could not agree more.

                                                                                                                                                        kh

                                                                                                                                                      2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                        I have made this cake and it is good. If you like rum go for it. I've also made a variation with Peachtree Schnapps.

                                                                                                                                                        This rum cake recipe originated from Bacardi Rum. If you google Bacardi Rum Cake you will find thousands of posts and photos for it.

                                                                                                                                                        Many posters such as this one, call it by the proper name, Bacardi Rum Cake:
                                                                                                                                                        http://thebakingpan.com/recipes/cake/...

                                                                                                                                                        Duncan Hines Cake Mix also posts it: http://www.duncanhines.com/recipes/ca...

                                                                                                                                                        There are plenty of videos about it as well, including this one with a "depressing and bitter man" making it. Check out the last 20 seconds for a bit of humor.

                                                                                                                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gahtLx...

                                                                                                                                                        Epicurious offers both the original and scratch versions:

                                                                                                                                                        http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/mem...

                                                                                                                                                        http://boards.epicurious.com/thread.j...

                                                                                                                                                        Ms. Drummond titled the recipe "PW’s Mother-in-Law’s Christmas Rum Cake." Had she spent one second googling she would have seen it is a well-known recipe. I have a collection of cookbooks made by churches and civic groups, dating back to the 1960s, and Bacardi Rum Cake is in a lot of them.

                                                                                                                                                        Since it is so well known, she could have said, "This is my mother-in-law's recipe, also known as The Bacardi Rum Cake." She chose not to.

                                                                                                                                                        Whatever. It's a good recipe, easy to make. When something is so entrenched in the public domain, all I am saying is give a little credit where credit is due. Especially if you are a blogger with a large public following.

                                                                                                                                                        Paula Deen does this all the time and gives very classic, standard church cookbook recipes her own special names. Then people refer to Paula Deen's recipe for.... fill in the blank. And I cringe a little because I know the recipe's origins had nothing to do with her.

                                                                                                                                                        1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                          TU, I couldn't agree more...and what did that research take about 30 seconds?
                                                                                                                                                          Ha!

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                            Not even.... ;-)

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                              The guy in that video...omg, hilarious. That's what he calls a "better place?!"
                                                                                                                                                              I'm def. sharing it today with friends.

                                                                                                                                                          2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                            Her recipe is different from this one:
                                                                                                                                                            Duncan Hines Cake Mix also posts it: http://www.duncanhines.com/recipes/ca...

                                                                                                                                                            She omitted the brand names! And in the picture of ingredients you can see she used Betty's mix, not Duncan's :)

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                              Totally agree, Trish! Paula Deen should be known as "The Junior League" ripoff.

                                                                                                                                                          3. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                            I said it was a cake her MIL made every Christmas - I never said it was an original recipe. - just a good version of one that had been around for years. I got my version over 40 years ago. I guess that makes me old as the hills but I stopped counting a long time ago. :)

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                                              Berheenia, sorry for my sidetrack. I didn't actually mean to ignore that you enjoy the recipe.

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                                                Berheenia, I agree with you. It's a good cake and I think I must be as old as the hills too...

                                                                                                                                                              2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                I remember it from the 70s, you're right.

                                                                                                                                                        2. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                                          When they showed the package, it was from Sams Club and was in the $96.00 price range.

                                                                                                                                                      3. Mind-numblingly boring. Pedestrian food.

                                                                                                                                                        8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Firegoat

                                                                                                                                                          I agree.

                                                                                                                                                          I cannot for the life of me understand the attraction of Pioneer Woman and her pedestrian food, her odd overly staged "ranch life," her 5 hour drives to the sheet metal building which is her supermarket where she buys corn-fed beef and her sullen unappreciative husband.

                                                                                                                                                          1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                            Pedestrian? Really? IMHO hot dogs and hamburgers are pedestrian. Surely not creative, inventive or far-reaching, but then a lot of people aren't into that. "Traditional" might be a more appropriate description.

                                                                                                                                                            And her husband...he can be as sullen as he wants because, my oh my, that man is smokin' hot! (Again IMHO) ;-)

                                                                                                                                                            1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                              As someone whose parents own a large cattle operation I dont find it "staged" at all...some of us really do live that way....just because it isnt your way of life doesnt make it untrue

                                                                                                                                                              1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                                                Amen LaLa. I grew up on a farm and live on a farm- A BEEF CATTLE OPERATION. A lot of what she does, I do too. I can relate to her life except for the four kids. I have never lived in a city, but just because I haven't, I certainly don't think that others can't have experiences that I may never have.

                                                                                                                                                                When you own what they own (over 10,000 acres I think) you can be what you want to be.

                                                                                                                                                              2. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                                Sullen- no just not mouthy like many (not all) men these days. Most farmers I know keep their mouths shut and their opinions to themselves. My husband is the same way as was my father.

                                                                                                                                                                1. re: vafarmwife

                                                                                                                                                                  From the two or three episodes I saw he was the very definition of both "sullen" and "unappreciative." What little he does say is pretty negative and he never says anything remotely nice to her.

                                                                                                                                                                  He seems like an a$$hole, actually. Another reason not to watch.

                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: C. Hamster

                                                                                                                                                                    we must not be watching the same show...I think it is pretty obvious that he is crazy about her.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                                                      I agree.

                                                                                                                                                            2. I just caught some of this recently. I think she would have been far better off on PBS or another network but she's so packaged here, and typically FNTV overly Botoxed. On PBS, you can be a regular person who can cook and just show what to do, eg Maryann Esposito. On FNTV, you're a commodity and packaged as such. I don't know why FNTV bothers with cooks--they need to find a good looking personality and teach them basic cooking skills.

                                                                                                                                                              1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                              1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                I totally agree Chowser. I don't know how they manage to do it, but they can take a unique person (ie, someone who lives on a ranch; someone who comes from down south; etc.) and homogenize it into a show that's different, yet oh so similar. And I know they pride themselves on incorporating plenty of those "personal" stories, but somehow, it's all so generic.

                                                                                                                                                              2. I never caught an episode of this. Is her show still on the air? Did it get cancelled?

                                                                                                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                1. re: SparklingSugar

                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.foodnetwork.com/the-pionee...

                                                                                                                                                                2. Cant stomach even looking at her. I purchased her book on Amazon.com and, instead of a recipe book, I got a picture book of horses with a recipe or two thrown in. It was an expensive coffee table family album of a family I dont know. The schtick about the "cowboy" is nauseating.

                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Lesjes89

                                                                                                                                                                    'The schtick about the "cowboy" is nauseating' AMEN! I just watched her episode "Stocking Up" and couldn't believe how stupid and uncreative it was. Does she think she's cute dropping g's as in cookin', fixin', etc?

                                                                                                                                                                    In this episode her husband was sorting & moving cattle, and I don't know of any wife who wouldn't be right out there helping her husband.

                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: Barbara76137

                                                                                                                                                                      I know plenty...including myself and my mother. Although I can do those things....Thats why you have hired ranch/farm hands. I find it amazing that so many people think the lifestyle i grew up with is "schtick".

                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Barbara76137

                                                                                                                                                                        I got the impression from her site, one of her books and other news sources that the Drummond operation is big-time, multi, multi-million dollar business where they would have actual employees as opposed to a mom and pop farm where every family member is needed just to keep it running.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Barbara76137

                                                                                                                                                                          So what that she's in the kitchen and not helping her husband? Why the nit-picking on this woman?
                                                                                                                                                                          He can round up the livestock while she's in the kitchen making big bags of money.

                                                                                                                                                                      2. Personally, I like her and her show. As someone that was raised (and continues to live) in farm and ranch country, i understand the need for meals that are nourishing, as well as filling.
                                                                                                                                                                        Roles on a ranch can vary from household to household, and it looks like she's better suited to the cooking, homeschooling, (and bringing in lots of bacon by writing books, doing a show, etc) than the roping part of their household "chores."
                                                                                                                                                                        To each their own, I guess.

                                                                                                                                                                        1. Something that just baffles me about this thread is the fine people here that are farmers or ranchers and like to watch the show. Years ago, I was a computer programmer. After a long day at work the last thing I would want to do is turn on the TV and watch a bunch of strangers writing computer programs.

                                                                                                                                                                          Nothing wrong with it, I just do not understand it.

                                                                                                                                                                          2 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                            the difference is yours is a job ours is a lifestyle...

                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: LaLa

                                                                                                                                                                              I would have been even less likely to watch a show about a computer programmers lifestyle!

                                                                                                                                                                          2. http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs...

                                                                                                                                                                            The New Yorker shares second thoughts.

                                                                                                                                                                            8 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                              Yawn. It appears everything there is what some of us knew from the early days.

                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                Hardly a yawn for the people who have been watching and working with PW since 2006. One of the oddest about faces from a New Yorker writer and still a surprising number of fans tune in and contribute daily comments to the blog. Yawn you say? Considering the revenue, funny that.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                  The information in the article must have surprised you, HillJ. All I said was that some of us knew those things from the early days.

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                    the about face by the NY writer surprised me.

                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                Thanks for the link. The article was appropriately critical yet fair and truthful.
                                                                                                                                                                                If the show is to continue, Ree needs to speak to Giada's team who turned her from a mousy, barely smiling, straining, almost irritable and uncomfortable TV cooking show host into a glamorous, sexy, rictus-smiling icon of style, beauty and Cali lifestyle.

                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                  And she needs a voice coach, too!

                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: jeanmarieok

                                                                                                                                                                                    I watched it today, with her mom and sister on.... the voice runs in the family.

                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: monavano

                                                                                                                                                                                    I hope that Ree doesn't "speak to Giada's team..." I like the fact that Ree Drummond comes across as a warm, genuine, imperfect, not plastic human being.

                                                                                                                                                                                    As far as Giada is concerned, the more 'glamorous, sexy, rictus-smiling icon of style, beauty and Cali lifestyle' she becomes, the less I enjoy her show.

                                                                                                                                                                                2. I don't know why the negative remarks, I like her no fuss no fanfare show just an honest lady showing how she cooks.

                                                                                                                                                                                  4 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: dolly52

                                                                                                                                                                                    Yep, I'm watching it now. And folks obviously enjoy her. The website/blog is quite popular, as is her fbook page. Judging by the comments, and the sheer number of them, she is doing just fine in the fan department.
                                                                                                                                                                                    She seems accessible.

                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: dolly52

                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree that she seems honest, but she's not interesting, either. In the one episode I saw, she started out by deep-frying two different dishes for her sons, so I wasn't motivated to watch any more.

                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: Claudette

                                                                                                                                                                                        Today I read that the PW website received a record breaking 77,000 reader comments after Ree ran an iPad plus e-cookbook contest. She knows what she's doing alright.

                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: dolly52

                                                                                                                                                                                        don't see to many negative remarks, I think she is a honest ordinary (rich) woman who happened to get her own show. However, i just can't get over her facial expressions, those cheecks really are a distraction, and not in a good way, then everything is "YUM". Sorry but I don't think i will watch anymore.

                                                                                                                                                                                      3. On the New York Times website for best sellers April 1 2012, she's number one

                                                                                                                                                                                        Hardcover Advice & Misc.

                                                                                                                                                                                        1, THE PIONEER WOMAN COOKS: FOOD FROM MY FRONTIER, by Ree Drummond

                                                                                                                                                                                        33 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                                                                          That cookbook contains 119 recipes and all but 20 are available for free on her website. It's nothing but retro, Betty Crocker style cooking, except for the recipe ideas she stole from CPK Olive Garden and the Sonic Drive-In. Who needs a cookbook for burgers, brownies made from Duncan Hines cake mix and sloppy joes? As for the rest of the recipes, most of them were lifted from her hometown's church and community cookbooks and the sources were NEVER credited. For more info, read The Marlboro Woman's site. She/He has photos of the community cookbooks that Ree lifted her ideas from.

                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                            I can't think of a single recipe that is protected by copyright other than the usual corporate suspect (the recipe for coca cola).

                                                                                                                                                                                            You may not like Ree Drummond and I haven't seen her blog/show in ages as her food doesn't interest me, but she's doing nothing illegal or morally wrong. And yep, she's certainly credited a number of her recipe sources by referring to such a church cookbook or her mother's recipe box. Sharing recipes is a time honored tradition in the United States (as the thousands of variations on something as simple as a pound cake in thousands of church/community cookbooks attests to) and Ree's blog and show is simply a modern version of sharing recipes, and I doubt anyone ever thought that Ree "invented" any of her recipes from scratch, certainly no more than people assumed that Julia Child "invented" all the recipes in her classic French cookbooks.

                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Roland Parker

                                                                                                                                                                                              What Julia Child did was to take the techniques involved in classic French recipes and explain them in a way that was accessible to American cooks who did not have the benefit of years of culinary training or tradition. It was groundbreaking at the time.

                                                                                                                                                                                              It's my understanding that the ingredient lists are not subject to copyright, but the descriptions and instructions that accompany a recipe are.

                                                                                                                                                                                              So yes, Pioneer Woman is not breaking any laws. But she is not making any great contributions either. It's great to share recipes and tips with family and friends, but no one expects to be paid millions for doing that. It's perfectly appropriate on a site like this for people to call her out on her lack of originality.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Having had a look at a couple of shows and a brief look at the web site (not a blog anymore), it's clear that it is all about her "brand" and marketing. I think feedback like this is good information for viewers who have less cooking background. If those viewers like her show and feel like they are learning something, that's great. However, it's also good for them to know, like with Julia, that Ree is just passing on things she has learned from others.

                                                                                                                                                                                              Julia added a lot of value when she passed that information along. I am not sure what value Ree adds to a church cookbook or back of the package recipe.

                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: Roland Parker

                                                                                                                                                                                                Wow. There is no comparison between Julia Child and Ree Drummond. I agree totally with PamF. Julia translated French cooking for Americans. She was a true pioneer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                Ree reeguritates (sic) local church cookbooks posing as a faux pioneer.

                                                                                                                                                                                                See this blog: http://themarlborowoman.com/

                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The Beach Boys, who spent a lifetime career promoting surfboards, sunshine and the CA beach lifestyle in most cases (sans one member) never surfed. Didn't stop their fans from enjoying their music some 50 years strong.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  My point, that the faux PW does have the benefit of family and ranch lifestyle (even through marriage) to point to. Her children are being raised on a real working ranch. And, while the diverse and growing nature of her once small blog, now commercially successful website, has taken all sorts of twists and turns Ree has found her niche.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Who know what Julia Child had in mind once successful took hold. Who knows where Ree finds inspiration. Her team is quite large today.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The public will ultimately decide the longevity.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                    In the other PW thread you gave links to a culinary school instructor who has worked with her

                                                                                                                                                                                                    http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/8443...

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks for locating it, paulj. It's worth posting here. As of Ree's 2nd cookbook she's given more credit to her ghost writer, chef instructor and team.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                    What I've read from The Marlboro Woman (& other bloggers who's soul focus is to make a rukus) is just mind boggling sad. Can you imagine finding the time and cultivating a fan base for the soul purpose of hating-on another individual. The posts that appear on that blog are not new information or unreported news pieces but the posts are ALL written to make Ree Drummond and her family look horrible. There is no room for disagreement and I've never read anything from Ree herself even acknowledging these sites.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    A site for the soul purpose of "keeping the PW real."...try finding out who the blogger is.

                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                      TrishU, imagine doing this all day
                                                                                                                                                                                                      http://twitter.com/_marlborowoman

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Lordy!

                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                        @HillJ Sorry you feel that way about The Marlboro Woman. I, for one, am thankful that someone would take the time, money and effort to research and post the truth about Ree Drummond and her less than pioneer lifestyle. It's not like the blogger is posting something multiple times a day or even a week. And I agree with MW; Ree and her media team are perpetrating a huge hoax at the expense of the Internet gullible.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        The fact that recipes aren't copyrighted doesn't make it acceptable to out and out steal someone else's work and not bother to credit them. Ree Drummond acts like it's beneath her to credit her sources. Check out blogs that have some integrity like Food52 and Deb Perelman's Smitten Kitchen. Those bloggers, without fail, credit their sources. In fact, when Food52 runs recipe contests their rules state, in part, that plagiarism is a lame thing to do and the contributor will be found out and exposed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        If you read MW's site, the author has gone to herculean lengths to document her findings. I applaud those efforts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                          And you have every right to follow The Marlboro Woman's blog, LC. I do however find it pretty confusing that an individual who follows someone else so very closely for the soul purpose of outing their professional career weekly, leaves out anything in detail about themselves. The Marlboro Woman has not introduced themselves to their readers or explained how they come about their "findings" to readers. No name, no background credential, no proof of much that anyone of us couldn't find online.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          So while you may be pleased by another perspective, I see nothing on TMW blog that demonstrates their sources are fact.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          Does TMW have another point of view-absolutely. Do I believe that the TMW site and others exist to cause a rukus and at the same time get their own 15 mins of infamy-why yes I do!

                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Frankly it doesn't make any difference to me who the person is. The Marlboro Woman website has photos of the cookbooks and oftentimes, the actual recipes that PW has lifted and they're clearly not props. That's evidence enough for me. What I didn't see evidence of was "weekly" updates. I only went back three months in the archives, but in May there were 3 posts, in June there were 2 and thus far this month, there's only been 1 post.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            Never noticed any advertisements on the MW site either. And unlike the heavily-censored, sanitized PW site, the MW allows dissenting comments, except those that are name calling and attack PW's detractors calling them haters and jealous. I haven't seen a thing on that site that rises to the level of hate. It's satire and the MW is hilarious in his/her critique of the Pioneer Woman.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            What many people don't seem to grasp is the fact that the PW has an entire legion of highly compensated media types whose primary job description is to keep Ree Drummond in the public eye. They bank on the fact most people won't look at the other side of the story. Like I said earlier, kudos to the MW for shedding light on this hoax.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                              You sound like a keen follower of the MW. I can't say I've spent a good deal of time reading the negative slant but MW is one of three folks out there actually blogging about PW's work and that has gotten a good deal of press from the folks over at Blogher which is how I came by the writing.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              The point you make about having a legion of compensated people is hardly news or unusual. It takes a team to do what she is doing. And I agree Ree could have credited that team much earlier on.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              If it's satire (which I happen to enjoy) that MW is writing then I have missed the point. Sarcasm of anyone who follows Ree's site seems to be a common point on the MW site. I don't see much humor, unless her dagger is actually a feather pen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I grasp PW and MW well enough to understand they both have a lot to say. It's the how it's said that really is my point LC.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Oh, and you didn't respond to my ? about the photo. Where did MW get the rights to use the mash up photo as a moniker?

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Not sure why you directed that question to me. I don't know the people behind that site and I'm not privy to any info about their web design.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  You mean the photo The Marlboro Woman uses of themselves, right? It's a mash up of Ree & Ladd Drummond.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Earlier, you mentioned copyright infringement & PW that's why I asked you about the photo MW uses as their moniker (Twitter, FB & website).

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  How is lifting a photo of two people you are writing about any different than what you said about a PW recipe and MW writes about? Do you think Ree gave TMW permission to use those photos?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Okay, nuff outta me. Time for a bike ride.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Honestly @HillJ, I have never scrutinized that photo to the extent you have. The PW body is obvious, but I don't know who the face belongs to. Why don't you email them and ask or maybe leave a comment on the site with that question? As for me, I leave the brilliant detective work to the MW. I love it when MW outs one of Ree's recipes and posts photos of the Bartlesville cookbooks containing an identical one.

                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                            I believe it's rather obvious that she has a commercial presence. So what? Really. Is anyone gullible enough to think that just because she calls herself "Pioneer Woman" she is a pioneer on some unexplored prairie somewhere? I see no problem with that. She has a blog, making a decent buck, pursuing it so as to secure their lot in life as to being able to live a certain lifestyle. Who are we to begrudge her?
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Do these same people get pi$$ed off because Hell's Kitchen doesn't really take place in hell?
                                                                                                                                                                                                            As to duplicate recipes... in local cookbooks.... how many of those were actually lifted from someone/somewhere else? Quite a few, as I have been a part of the local church woman's cookbook culture my whole life.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Big deal.
                                                                                                                                                                                                            She offers a warm fuzzy and some interesting things, from cooking to homeschooling... don't look.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                              What's really sad about the whole Pioneer Woman charade is that there ARE truly gullible people who buy into her fairy tale, start their own blogs and attempt to emulate a concept that, unless they have Ree Drummond's unlimited financial resources, is unattainable.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I don't think anyone begrudges the Drummonds for having money. There's nothing wrong with that. But when you use that money and hire a media team to promote a lifestyle you don't actually lead, the underlying deceit, once exposed, leaves a foul taste in people's mouths.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I've been surprised by the handful of followers that have been overly inspired by Ree's work but what can any of us do about that? Is the answer to take to the blogsphere and call her a fraud in order to help the commoner? That's just silly. But, it wasn't until Ree went from blogger to website owner, from a fun loving wife/homecook/homeschooling writer for fun to a full on commercially viable success that readers started to holler back. Watching her climb was okay but once she got to that top rung on the ladder, pushing her off was were some readers decided to go. That too big for your britches problem got louder and louder. Well, the lady did good. She set some interesting wheels in motion and in today's viral world everyone can and does have a vocal opinion about everything. Reaching out and tell it like you see it is easy. So, PW gets a few book deals, a tv show, endorsements, appearances, starts to inspire others. Who exactly is she hurting? Hurting with her lifestyle take? I just don't see it as her responsibility as much as the normal response to people that are popular. Right now Ree has been hired to endorse a brand of butter. She's touring with her 2nd cookbook, filming another season for FN. All while taking on a Dear Abby ish type Q&A from her readers. She's still creating some of the largest responses to online give aways I've ever seen and still keeping her chin up and having fun. Whatever foul taste she's left in the mouths of a few, her readership is huge; envied by many bloggers and surprising to others who started out at the same time she did but took a diff path.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Whatever the final word on PW is, it's been fun to watch. I get a real kick out of public reaction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Isn't it great that the blogosphere is large enough for opposing viewpoints like those presented by The Pie Near Woman, The Marlboro Woman and The Pioneer Woman Sux? As I said in an earlier comment, I applaud sites that expose The Pioneer Woman as nothing more than a manufactured Internet persona. Those bloggers are providing a valuable public service not to mention, an antidote to the phoniness that permeates the PW site. Yes, Ree Drummond has book deals, butter deals, bean deals and tv deals, all bought and paid for by Ladd Drummond's millions. She has resources available to her that the average blogger can't even begin to compete with. The fact Ree bought her fame and fortune, rather than earning it the old-fashioned way through hard work and talent, has turned off more than just a "few" people. For many former fans, the shine came off the Pioneer Woman apple when her "I'm just a little ol' ranch wife, doing mounds of laundry and sweeping up cow patties" deceit was exposed. Truth be told, Ree Drummond isn't a Pioneer Woman anymore than Burl Ives was Santa Claus.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Thankfully Burl Ives and Santa Claus are going to be remembered fondly. The 3 anti PW bloggers you mentioned (& it appears TPWS stopped posting and is asking folks to stop bothering her, funny that) let's see how long their anonymous rants last.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    The Pie Near gal is just creepy...playing with dolls...what?!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Just got back from the Marlboro Woman's website. I think she needs psychiatric help. How can somebody get that worked up over a "celebrity"?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://tastykitchen.com/
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        The Tasty Kitchen is a food blog within the PW website that provides a forum and community for home cooks. Ree is offering others, many food bloggers, a place to come, share and learn from each other. The food photos are terrific too. So, this sour tone about Ree just doesn't work for me like it does for the naysayers. I just don't believe she's doing anything other than making it work.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Of course it's an internet persona, but if you listen to Ree, she claims she's just like you and me. Well, I don't know about you, but I don't employ tutors to homeschool my children, housekeepers to maintain not one but two homes nor do I employ a literary agent, a talent agent, a public relations firm and a web management company so I can author a multi-layered blog, cook, take hundreds of photos of chopping onions, PhotoShop said photos, shoot a television show and traipse all over the country on book tours to promote a lifestyle I don't lead. Nor do I deceive people into thinking that I'm remodeling a guesthouse, when in fact I'm installing a television studio on my property. I prefer non-fiction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          and you have made your choices. I just don't see the deceit. I'm not that naive. This is her chosen career.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I love travel and I enjoy reading blogs written by people who have picked up and moved to Italy to live. I also enjoy watching House Hunters International. That doesn't mean I'm going to follow in the footsteps of the bloggers, househunters, etc. I do have a brain, a bit of common sense and am grounded in the reality of my life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Are there really that many people who "buy into her fairy tale, start their own blogs and attempt to emulate a concept that, unless they have Ree Drummond's unlimited financial resources, is unattainable"....?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Maybe there are just as many 'gullible people' who follow in the footsteps of the Italy-living bloggers and HHI folks. Maybe these blogs and HHI shows should also be criticized.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Then again, maybe most people aren't gullible. Maybe they just like to be entertained.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        What do you mean by "promote a lifestyle you don't actually lead," do you think she's trying to fool people into believing she's a real pioneer? If so, that's truly laughable. There is no deceit. She's living on a working ranch in OK. No one today should believe that resembles anything like the life my pioneering ancestors led on the plains in the 1800's. If they do, then they have a mental problem and it's not PW's fault.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        A ranch lifestyle these days encompasses many different styles of living. Kind of reminds me of how people seem to think that in Wyoming we still ride horses to get to town. (However, some may still choose to do that!)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        and yes, it sounds like you begrudge them for having money.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Not at all. Drummond has stated with regularity that she's just like you and me except she lives on a ranch. She claims she homeschools, does mounds of laundry, sweeps cow patties off the porch and is a simple "a little ol' ranch wife." All three blogs I previously mentioned have proven this not to be the case. Drummond's neighbors and the local town people paint an entirely different picture. In fact, the author of Pie Near Woman spent a weekend at the Drummond ranch and lived to post the most hilarious account ever.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I have no problem with Ree Drummond. I've occasionally checked out her site and even bought her first book. My one and only experience with the Marlborough Woman's website left a sour taste in my mouth (I had actually been expecting some very entertaining gossip -- instead she just seemed like a whack job to me). However, my take on many of the naysayers is that they feel duped because Ree has supposedly let her readers in on so many aspects of her personal lifestyle -- from cooking, to gardening, to raising children, to remodeling, etc., etc. They feel like they know her, and then find out that there's a whole other side of her "lifestyle" that they're not being introduced to -- the money, the helpers, the tutors, etc. (I assume this is true; I don't know how many people she's got working behind the scenes that don't show up on her blog or TV show). I, for one, have no problems with any of this. However, I can see how that might be upsetting (or whatever negative term you want to use) to others. And the fact that she's been so successful at it just gets under their skin even more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wasn't Pie Near Woman the one who spent the weekend at Ree's and had head lice, but never told Ree? How rude is that? I would be pissed if someone knowingly spent a whole weekend in my home (or guest house, whatever), sleeping in one of my beds, sitting on my furniture and never told me they had a head full of lice!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: emily

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              emily, you are correct. Pie Near Woman didn't enjoy her invitation to the ranch, had head lice but never told Ree and then decided to deal with it by inventing her own anti PW blog using dolls and props to reinact posts that actually appear on the PW website. Can you imagine doing that with your time and energy? Oh my heavens. That's a wild and outlandish choice.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I succumbed to curiosity and saw the Pie site. That person is rather brutal in attacking members of PW's family. Not honest, but brutal. They (the Pie person and ilk) may think it's cute, but making fun of someone's family is out of line, and far worse than anything they are claiming about PW's chosen lifestyle. Does anyone really want to argue ethics and use that defamatory site as their basis? Jeez. and quickly followed by a resounding duh.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Nothing like seeing the site material for yourself and deciding. Head shakingly bad comedy, creepy dolls and NO FOOD, no recipes, no surprise.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Wait I've been duped?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. I like Ree, her show, her family, her ranch, her cooking and her attitude. I take happiness and inspiration where I can get it and she gives me bits of both.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            1 Reply
                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Mightymom68

                                                                                                                                                                                                              I agree, Mightymom68.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. I like her web site, less fond of her tv show.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              She should be hotter, like Giada.

                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. The Pie Near Woman has done a phenomenal job of parodying Ree Drummond's "little ol' ranch wife" farce. Her site is professional and has millions of readers. It's highly unlikely she's going to fade away any time soon. Recently, Pie Near posted her first video featuring Ree, The MM and his friend and it's now available on YouTube. Earlier this year, Oklahoma Magazine had a feature article on the Pie Near site. This blogger behind this great concept should be thanked many times over for her exposure of the phoniness that surrounds the Pioneer Woman.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                7 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  "Her site is professional and has millions of readers."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I took a look at the stats of the pie near woman on Alexa, and the ranking of my website is higher, with more traffic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  That site is ranked 358,530 in the US, and mine is 310,552 in the US. My global rank is higher as well. I do not have millions of readers you are assured.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  From where do you get this info?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    LindyCindy, the use of the word: sheeple, that flies around TMW site describing those that enjoy and follow TPW site, cuts both ways don't you believe. You have strongly defended all three individuals parodying the work of TPW and whatever following that comes from doing so. Which seems rather sheeple-ish in its own way; just in the other direction.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    You have a right to your point of view. I just don't see the pleasure in mocking others for sport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Could you expound on those stats please? Opinions are one thing. Randomly quoting "facts" with no citation is quite another.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanks in advance.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: tommy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        I believe the inflated numbers come from the likelihood that each reader suffers from multiple personalities.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.okmag.com/October-2011/Pio...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Do you call this serious journalism?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkLlxq...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        hardly a worldwide following (1,037 views)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Wow. The amount of time spent obsessing over Ree is pretty pathetic when you watch those videos.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Jumping on the "call me maybe" parody bandwagon seems a bit desperate and needy. Especially when one doesn't have the means to do it without using a demo version of software.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. Folks, please keep this thread focused on the topic at hand and not on commenting about your fellow hounds, their motivations, personalities, etc.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. The Pioneer Woman show isn't my cup of tea anymore than the blog is. The sites that have taken this fairy tale to task are providing another side of the story and a welcome opportunity to examine the less than "little ol' ranch wife" lifestyle that Ree Drummond actually leads.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                            41 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              This has been an interesting thread. Here is my 2 cents.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I like her blog but don't care for the show much. I think it is clear that she is not used to celebrity and appears awkward and stiff in front of the camera. I am not a "fan", but I do use her blog from time to time. I enjoy her photography as well.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              She has very "tried and true" classic recipes when you need one of those. I don't really care where she gets them from. I eat very differently than their family does- but sometimes go there for, say, a really good "old school" brownie recipe. I gave away my community cookbooks years ago..but really...all community cookbooks have the same recipes in them. Who would you give recipe credit to..."Joyce from P.A" or "Sally Mae from TX"? All of them across the county have the same items in there at slightly differing proportions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Me thinks not many people really care about that issue. As long as PW is not saying that she created potato skins with cheese and bacon...I don't think anyone assumes she did.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am not sure where you get that she is portraying the "little ol' ranch wife" lifestyle from? Not from her blog, that is for sure. She regularly blogs about living at the Ranch- the "Lodge", she is not hiding the fact that the property is immensely HUGE and gorgeous, she blogs about her trips, hotels, restaurants, etc. she blogs about being on The View, Good Morning America, meeting celebrities, etc.,being recognized and her latest book deals. I don't see anywhere where she claims to be some poor little ranch wife???? That would just be silly. Her blogs date from 2006 and you can see the progression of her career...she writes about it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I am sure she hires help around her house now (even I do that -and I am not a millionaire). This doesn't invalidate her life, and her ability to write about it IMHO. Just because you have money, doesn't mean you don't do your kids laundry sometimes or need to clean cow poop off your front porch. Seriously, you still do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Ree Drummond voiced it during several tv appearances claiming she was "a little ol' ranch wife" just like you and me. This gal sums up the Pioneer Woman phenomenon best for me: http://alleghator.blogspot.com/2011/0...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                From what I have seen on her "cooking" show, it's less about cooking and all about staged ranch scenes accompanied by bad scripting.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Since she voiced this a few times during "T.V. appearances"....I would guess it was a bit tongue- in- cheek.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Of course, she IS a "celebrity" ranch wife and I assume she categorizes herself that way (in her mind) as she doesn't appear comfortable at all on t.v. So, if your point is that she is, indeed, a celebrity ranch wife- you are correct.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    In any event, the Pioneer Woman show is not watchable. Ree's head shakingly bad efforts at comedy are like finger nails on a chalk board and her lack of culinary skills are not my idea of a cooking show. Just my opinion.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I have come to the conclusion that the "anti-PW" websites are part and parcel of Mrs. Drummond's diabolical plot for world domination. I know she has gotten more hits from me in the past two days than the previous two years.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I agree that her tv show is not very good.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I will also say that I am somewhat envious of that enormous ranch. My family was in the cattle bidness and we thought we were big shots when we had a hundred brood cows and three horses. Mine was blind in one eye and not very handsome to say the least. Fortunately I have been able to keep my envy from eating at me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      If Giada had that kind of operation, I would be a crazy man from the jealousy. (I'm very disappointed that I didn't get kicked in the nuts for the previous Giada comment)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: sedimental

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Well, this is the first time I've ever heard of a "celebrity ranch wife." Well, at least since Dallas aired. She needs bigger hair, I guess. I can't see the appeal for this show, but to each their own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: breadchick

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Sans any cooking skills, a "celebrity ranch wife" is what you become when you're sugar daddy/husband ponies up mega bucks for the best public relations team money can buy. This gal can't cook, but she sure can lift recipes from her hometown's community and church cookbooks. The Marlboro Woman site has a new post on last Saturday's show including photos of the recipes and cookbooks Ree Drummond/Pioneer Woman got her material from. http://bit.ly/QFs1uT

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I'm calling BS on Marlboro Woman on this. First let me say that I am not a fan of the Pioneer Woman. I have never seen her TV show, but I've looked at the blog and I think her cooking skills are non-existent. That said, to claim a recipe is "lifted directly" from another, the correlation between the two recipes should be pretty darn exact. Especially when you are dealing with common recipes which are found in almost any cookbook.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          So here's just the ingredient list from the PW recipe on the Food Network site, followed by the recipe Marlborough Woman claims it is "lifted directly" from:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          PW's Chicken Spaghetti from the FN site. You can check this here:
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/re...

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 whole raw chicken, cut into pieces
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 pound thin spaghetti, broken into 2-inch pieces
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 cans cream of mushroom soup
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 1/2 cups grated sharp Cheddar
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/4 cup finely diced green pepper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/4 cup finely diced red bell pepper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 medium onion, finely diced
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 teaspoon seasoned salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon cayenne pepper
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Salt and freshly ground black pepper

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          The recipe Marlboro Woman claims this was "lifted directly" from:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 fryer for stewing, about 2 1/4 lbs.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          4 cups water
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 1/4 tsp salt
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 clove garlic
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/2 bay leaf
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/4 cup margarine
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 cup onion, chopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/2 cup celery tops, chopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2 Tbs flour
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 3-ounce can sliced mushrooms with liquid
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1 8-ounce package spaghetti
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1/4 cup parsley, chopped
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2/3 cup sharp cheddar cheese, shredded

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          If this is "lifted directly", than pretty much anything that anyone has ever made has been "lifted" from somewhere.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: MelMM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I'm with you MelMM. And it's not necessary to give credence to an anonymous blogger spending countless hours thinking their "outing" someone who actually puts their real name on a popular blog and then suggests who should be "keeping it real" has to be some kind of irony for the rest of us. The Marlboro Woman is just a sad commentary on what's wrong with the world. Thankfully a miniority group of disgruntled folk.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Recipes that have been around for years wind up in community cookbooks by homecooks who may have "lifted" those recipes from someone or somewhere else. They are often collections being shared and sold to other members of the community and inspiring even more cooks. The chicken and the egg is best scrambled in this regard.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But, I tend to believe that if PW wasn't so incredibly popular at the moment, The Marlboro Woman (who knows maybe it's a old friend who got mad, or a man or a group of nothing better to do blog haters) wouldn't have much to blog about would they.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I see no value in TMW blog. None.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              HillJ, I lurk more than I post but have to pipe up and agree with you and others who can't help but feel sorry for someone like TMW who dedicates hours a day to the pursuit of knocking others down from the "top rung of the ladder." Even as a somewhat snarky person, I think it's kind of pathetic.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Like many, I enjoy Ree Drummond's style and think of her site as an occasional starting point when I am cooking. Do I think of her recipes as the end-all, be-all of fine cooking? Of course not. Does she use recipes that may have been published before in community and church cookbooks? Certainly seems like it - and I'm okay with that, personally. A great recipe should definitely be shared, in my book!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ItalGreyHound

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                This is what I'm trying to understand, too. I wonder more about the person who spends endless hours trying to bring her down than I do about her--a little obsessed? We all have recipes we've collected over the years and pass on and to me, that's what she is doing but on a mass level. She's never claimed to create recipes or be a chef. I don't follow her but have been to her site on occasion and her recipes are appealing to your basic home cook.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I've been visiting the PW blog, now a full blown popular website, since 2006. I bought her 1st and so far only calendar (she self published for charity) and have watched on the sidelines along with everyone else. I haven't always found the PR machine running her brand in line with my own sense of business style (and a big so-what to me truly because what I think doesn't factor into it) but I continue to admire her ability to expand her reach and find new ways to explore a busy life & career.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  She touches a good deal of people already. Her infectious nature, sense of fun and family strikes a cord. I admire her. I like her modern spin on HER life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  To make it your mission in life to knock a person down reeks of creepiness but also something very personal. I don't know why TMW has made it a mission at all but all that discord doesn't matter to me.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    I admire her for her business smarts, too. There's nothing wrong with being good at marketing yourself and doing well. I can't understand the motive behind searching up every recipe she's posted to prove that her recipes aren't unique. I'd guess that the PW would be the first to admit she doesn't create recipes but she passes off what she tries, no different from most people.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I'm just going to succinctly say why I have no use for Ms. Drummond. She takes the recipes of others and pawns them off as her own. That is wrong. It's lying and cheating and people think it's ok, so fine 'nuff said. She has her fans.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        TrishU, that's what makes the world go round. We can all have our unique perspectives, have a really great dialogue about the subject at hand and continue to learn from each other on CH. That's fantastic!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Reworked recipes that wind up published under different monikers can be successfully found in hundreds of cookbooks and printed media around the globe. Use of the words: inspired by, adapted, repurposed, substituted, reorganized, re, re, re....have all been used for years. From origin, to home & pro kitchen, to magazine, to cookbooks, to blogs, to video, to live presentation, to chain restaurants, to to to. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Asking for the rights to reprint or use a recipe also happens and we shouldn't assume that it isn't happening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Any real evidence of this? Because the "evidence" that Marlborough Woman presents is pretty bogus, IMHO. And I find that highly ironic, considering the supposed point of her attacks is that PW distorts the truth.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: MelMM

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Yes. There are many instances where Ree has lifted recipes from other sources. They have been discussed ad nauseum and it doesn't matter to her defenders.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            In theory the FN frowns on recipe plagiarism, and reportedly fired Anne Thornton because of it. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02....

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            But as the last paragraph of the article states, "high-profile plagiarists have gotten off scot free." And if the public doesn't care, this will continue to happen.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            "Recipe attribution is tricky business -- the copyright laws on the topic are notoriously vague, with legal infringments often hinging on the actual phrasing of instructions rather than a list of ingredients. For that reason, even high-profile recipe plagiarists have gotten off scot-free in the past. But a TV chef is certainly supposed to be held to a higher standard of culinary originality to a normal person."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            With that, I'm done with this thread. Carry on! Ciao!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Funny the HP also wrote: Thornton's show premiered in October of 2010 and was not renewed for a third season. Food Network representatives, responding to request for comment from the Post, maintained that the decision was based solely on ratings. Thornton, for her part, said she had no knowledge of plagiarism accusations, though she admitted to being a fan of Ina and Martha.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So once again an unnamed source, much like the unknown voice for TMW, is quoted as fact but the FN makes a statement and that is ignored. The official word was a lack of ratings...the unnamed source stated plagiarism.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              It's all in how you read the FACTS. Unnamed sources....well that can also indicate a lack of facts.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I have no issue with PW but finger pointing without really knowing (& I am not in any way hesitating to say I don't know) is ridiculous.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                True, the people who blindly follow an Internet persona don't want to see what they don't want to see. It's like believing in Santa Claus. You know he doesn't exist, but why spoil the illusion. Those fans don't want to live in reality, they'd rather live vicariously through someone else's life in spite of the fact it's a fantasy. According to the Marlboro Woman site, they get literally hundreds of emails from people thankful for making them aware of the ongoing plagiarism and phoniness.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ha! How about that.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  The Marlboro Woman, who does not share a real identity, is the one playing Batman. The Marlboro Woman site is an online persona as well and questionable since the rant is so personal in nature. The same believers comment with each entry from what I saw; hardly in the hundreds in online/comment. And it could be said, blindly following this caped crusader without knowing what is true or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    :-)

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    We're all Batmans, really, huh? And, you're a multiple personality to boot! I still blindly follow you, though.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      This was kind of cryptic (although perfectly clear in my mind) but I just meant that we're all "internet persona" here.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        ,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    2. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      "According to the Marlboro Woman site, they get literally hundreds of emails"
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      I never said anything about online/comments.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        LC, it's been "keeping it real" fun. Enjoy the rest of your evening.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          No, just emails.... "...they get literally hundreds of emails from people ..."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Most people don't care about the persona--they just like the recipes and don't care where it came from. Those hot crash potatoes are a staple in my house. I don't care if she created them or not.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Who is the Marlborough Woman anyway? And, why is she so obsessed with a minor celebrity? I just read part of her blog and her hatred is pretty scary--scathing over inconsequential things like her clothes? It's all very mean spirited. FWIW, as I've said, I've barely followed the PW, except the occasional recipe posted here on CH but the MW makes me want to support the PW more.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        1. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          My guess is that it is a very jealous former neighbor or acquaintance. Someone from junior high that has never left junior high, except to get further educated in the practice of being mean. That's just my impression of the MW site.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. re: LindyCindy

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Does this number of "hundreds" come from the same source as this claim? "Her site is professional and has millions of readers." Because it's very improbable that she/he has millions of readers. Very unlikely indeed.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        3. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          PW is not a chef, nor does she claim to be. Why should she be held to originality standards?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I wonder if PW's 'plagiarism' violates Chow's recipe posting standards? As I under stand CH rules, ingredients can match, and the end result can be the same. It's just the wording of the instructions that is protected by copyright.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            This information and more has been available thru the Library of Congress for a very long time.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              So PW's presentation of a recipe on TV or on her blog (complete with detailed photos) should be considered as a 'substantial literary expression', even if she is working from a recipe in some 1950s community cookbook.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                And could be owned by FN, PW, a publishing entity. Sure. She takes the photos, writes the description, uses her own image, engages her own audience. Yeah alot falls under 'substantial literary expression' intentionally. As I have said countless times, being original truly original is NOT easy. Some of the best borrow and sample and take just the right amounts of bits & pieces.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: HillJ

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://www.ted.com/talks/view/lang/en...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As I have said countless times, being original truly original is NOT easy. Some of the best borrow and sample and take just the right amounts of bits & pieces.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  TED talks always nails it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              How do I protect my recipe?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A mere listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection. Note that if you have secret ingredients to a recipe that you do not wish to be revealed, you should not submit your recipe for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              And if you do read the PW blog at all it should be noted that the recipes make up a section of the overall site. Including a blog within the site called Tasty Kitchens were other homecooks, bloggers and even semi famous bloggers post their recipes which are also remastered from sources of varying origin. People who love food/recipes sharing their take on them. What a concept!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: paulj

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                If CH didn't have that rule and any recipes with identical ingredients were deleted, it would be a pretty empty board. Most recipes are handed down. It's funny when I see a recipe posted there that someone had given me from their grandmother and was supposed to be "top secret."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          2. re: TrishUntrapped

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I don't follow her but if she says her recipes are all her own creation, then it's a problem. But, as with the HC board here, people post recipes all the time. I've never thought they were claiming them as their own. People ask, "Anyone have a good banana bread recipe" and if I do, I'll post it. I usually attribute it but sometimes it's something I've had forever. It never occurred to me to post a disclaimer that I didn't create a banana bread recipe or whatever. My feeling with her, as with most cooking food bloggers is that they make whatever recipe catches their eye and then post pictures about their process. I'd be surprised if many created their own recipes.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          3. re: chowser

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            At the risk of really causing a ruckus, I will add that I feel the same about Ree that I do about Paula Deen - not everything she puts out there is to my taste, but far be it from me to hate on anyone just because they have found extraordinary success. It doesn't happen in a vacuum - there are obviously plenty of folks out there who enjoy what she does and how she does it!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As it relates to the copyright issue - my major complaint would be if she blatantly stole recipes from some other, much less known bloggers, and passed them off as her own. A church cookbook? Just doesn't ruffle my feathers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Personally, I started keeping up with Pioneer Woman when it was still a blog - at times a laugh out loud one. Back when Ree was just "Ree" with not as many admirers, she was much more my speed. Just my 2 cents. My taste for all of the promo events at the Lodge, the giveaways with 70,000+ replies, and the like, not so much...but I still say, good for her.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: ItalGreyHound

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              FWIW, I'd be surprised if most of the recipes on Food Network are original. Few people create recipes. If everyone is expecting all recipes posted to be originals, they'll be sadly mistaken. Thomas Keller? Sure. A home cook? Not so much.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: ItalGreyHound

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I respect Pioneer Woman for not having acknowledged the naysayers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: ItalGreyHound

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I started with her blog too and thought she was a hoot and that's why I started watching the show. The chances of me riding a horse or having a picnic on a ranch in Oklahoma are zero to none and that adds to my enjoyment and I have made several of the recipes from the Blog and or TV show. And while I own community cookbooks that may have similar recipes, it's watching the shows that get the juices flowing to make a chicken spaghetti or a rum cake. That Christmas Rum cake was a big hit at my urban church coffee hour last winter.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        2. I just saw the first show of the new season today. I liked it. Is it groundbreaking, cutting edge nouvelle cousine? No. But I liked it and thought the chicken spaghetti looked good, as well as the ice cream pops.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          5 Replies
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            wyogal,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            You mentioned not once but twice that you like it. Did you actually make any of the dishes mentioned?

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            1. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I enjoyed her show, and yes, it gives me ideas of what to do with simple ingredients found in fridge and pantry. I don't usually cook anybody's recipe. I enjoyed the show.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Granted, you also need to know that I channel surf and would also stop at a show on an eccentric lifestyle or hoarding, or etc....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              As for the chicken spaghetti, well, it is one that I think I will try. I get inspiration from her website as well. (Now I'll qualify "inspiration" ... not like a msg from god inspiration or a wow!, but ideas, that make me go, hmmm, that would be nice.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              and I like the burning down the barn idea. for reasons of my own.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              1. re: wyogal

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                :-) I like and appreciate your sense of humor.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              2. re: Fowler

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                We've been making that chicken spaghetti for a few years and it was ground breaking when we first made it as I got my husband to eat something spicy and he got me to use Velveeta - our recipe had Rotel and Velveeta. And it is really delicious too.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                1. re: Berheenia

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Rotel & Velveeta, how can one go wrong! Love that stuff!

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            2. Just watched the chicken spaghetti episode. I didn't think it was that bad. Like wyogal, I got a couple ideas from it.