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scanpan nonstick skillet

trolley May 14, 2011 06:10 PM

Hi,

I just purchased a scanpan nonstick skillet at Sur La Table after discovering the teflon on my All-Clad was chipping. The salesperson gushed about the Scanpan and b/c of time constraints and needing a 10" pan almost immediately as I use it practically everyday, i bought it without any research.

I'm sort of having buyers remorse as i rarely make a haste purchase. Does anyone have any experience with these pans? any thoughts about them?

  1. r
    redbeanbun May 15, 2011 07:00 PM

    i think you're going to find that nonstick surfaces will all go the same way no matter how careful you are with the pans and regardless of whether you spent $20 or $200 for the pan. I found the nonstick surface lasts 5-8 years unless you get something really cheap. so long as you're happy with it's performance, then go with it. i've been eyeing a rivetless scanpan nonstick for a while and can't wait till my current (riveted) nonstick pan bites the dust.

    1. m
      mikie May 15, 2011 07:28 PM

      I've had the 8" for about 2 years, it's a great pan. Absolutely no complaints.

      1. s
        sueatmo May 15, 2011 08:16 PM

        I have had a 10" Scanpan that I have used regularly for several years. It seems fine to me. I learned that you must use medium heat or lower with non stick pans. Since I started doing that, my non-stick pans have held up very well. However, I don't think the Scanpan is any better than my smaller Cuisinart which I picked up cheaply at Home Goods.

        I've been using non-stick skillets for a couple of decades now, and I've come to the conclusion that I should buy them on sale or at a place like Home Goods. They don't last forever. But if you keep the heat to medium, they'll last longer than if you use high or medium high heat.

        2 Replies
        1. re: sueatmo
          j
          jkling17 Nov 28, 2011 11:46 PM

          Second the motion to watch out against overly high heat. I had a 10" Calphalon skillet - the low edge kind that is perfect for eggs and small crepes. It was the BEST egg pan that I ever had and was used constantly for about 4-5 years. Eventually the surface started to go and I had to toss it. My mistake with the Calphalon was sometimes to use overly high temperatures for searing steaks and such. A mistake and I know better now.

          An infrared thermometer is very useful for monitoring heat on your pans. I use mine regularly. At first, I got it to figure out my hot and cold spots in my old victorian but now it's a regular tool in my kitchen.

          have yet to replace my beloved Calphalon pan but I still have an inexpensive non-stick skillet that is doing the trick for now. It's not going to last and I can tell already - and it's surface is not even close to my old favorite. Once it goes, and I'm looking forward to it, I'll get the same Calphalon pan again, without question. Crepes need high temps but I now have special pans for those My wonderful GF got me 2 while in France this summer :-)

          I'm sure that you'll feel the same way about your Scanpan. Truly fine cookware is a pleasure to use and lasts for a very long time.

          1. re: jkling17
            s
            sueatmo Nov 29, 2011 04:27 AM

            I replied about Scanpan on another thread recently, and before I posted I picked up the Scanpan and examined it. It is a nice pan, no question. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the pan, and perhaps 7 years after I bought it, it is in good shape.

            Lucky, lucky you to get French crepe pans! The cooking tools we acquire as we live our cooking lives become treasures because of their design and functionality--and their associations. I predict that your replacement non-stick pan will fall into your hands at the opportune moment, whether Caphalon or some other, because that's the way my world works! You already know what you like, so you will recognize it when you find it.

        2. m
          mpalmer6c May 16, 2011 01:55 AM

          Since all non-stick coatings wear out over time.
          I just buy a cheap pan that will be easy to replace.
          In any case, there's little doubt that Scanpan
          ls over-hyped and overpriced.

          31 Replies
          1. re: mpalmer6c
            trolley May 16, 2011 07:52 AM

            thanks for the replies. 3 out of 4 replies says yes so i think i'll stick with the scanpan. my issue was with teflon. i didn't want to cook on teflon anymore so i wanted an alternative. i'm looking to replace my 14" teflon all clad and i'm thinking of buying a Debuyer versus another scanpan. i wanted to buy a cheap pan but it just didn't work out that way. i'm going to home goods and tj maxx to do some searching before i plonk down another c-note on a pan.

            1. re: trolley
              m
              mikie May 16, 2011 08:41 AM

              If you truely don't want to cook on "Teflon(r)" anymore, ditch the Scanpan. Their advertising is a bit misleading, it isn't Teflon, a regestired trademark for DuPont for a fluoropolymer, "Polytetrafluoroethelyne", aka PTFE. PTFE is the basis of all "Non-Stick" pots and pans and is produced by companies other than DuPont under other trade names.

              As I mentioned above, I really like my Scanpan, I use it on weekends to cook eggs, that's about it. As another poster mentioned, use medium or lower heat and all will be fine for a very long time. If you are opposed to cooking on plastic, then send it back, because although there are modifications to Scanpan that make the surface more abrasion resistant, according to their literature, it's still a PTFE release surface on the pan.

              1. re: trolley
                ZenSojourner May 16, 2011 09:26 AM

                For heaven's sake, don't ditch the Scanpan! Scanpans are PFOA free and that's the substance that was causing the problems. Several consumer agencies and governmental agencies as well have tested the new non-stick cookware (Scanpans for sure but I think some of the other high-end nonstick as well) and there is no outgassing at normal cooking temps up to and including if you burn the pan. It won't outgas until something over 2000 F (though it will ruin the surface long before that) and to get that hot, your kitchen would already be on fire, so you'd have much bigger worries.

                It doesn't peel. It doesn't flake. And with proper care (which is easy) it will last for decades. I still have the original Scanpan Gen1 cookware and even though it is nowhere near as good as the newer stuff, it is still functional. The new stuff is hands-down better though. We have a set of that as well and it is now something like 5 or 6 years old and looks and behaves every bit as good as when it was brand new.

                Oh yeah, and even with the Gen1 Scanpans, I used to have birds (cockatiels) for 8 years, right next to the kitchen, and never lost a single bird. Even the old stuff didn't outgas.

                Yes, Scanpans use PTFE - I don't think there's a nonstick pan out there (that actually works) that doesn't - but it's incorporated into a titanium-ceramic alloy surface (I have no idea how they make it nor do I know if it's properly called an alloy, perhaps "amalgam" would be better). This is not your grandma's Teflon.

                There is nothing "misleading" about their advertising. It is a proprietary finishing technique that is NOT Teflon. It uses PTFE - but it's NOT TEFLON. Go to their websites (the one in Denmark has the most info) - they're quite clear about their manufacturing process.

                As for heat - I cook on Med-high and even (on occasion, for short periods) high and it has not thus far damaged the surface on either the Gen1 or Gen2 cookware. HOWEVER, I don't turn my back for an instant - doing stir fry when I turn it up that high anyway - and I only do that when there's enough food in the pan to cover the bottom - the pan won't get hotter than the food, and the food isn't going to get anywhere near 500F unless you burn it. As in flames shooting out of the pan.

                Note that for anything short of stir frying, Med heat is pretty high. Scanpans are good, heavy cookware and excel at even heat distribution. You will find that compared to cheaper lighterweight pans you can achieve better results at lower temps because of the quality of the cookware.

                BOTH my sets of Scanpan (the old and the new) were worth every penny. I love the stuff.

                CARE - clean the pan while its still hot. Stuff will just wipe right out. When people complain about their (new) Scanpans not being nonstick anymore, it turns out they weren't following the care instructions, and if you don't do it this way at least once in awhile, you can build up a layer of residue. My Gen2 Scanpans really belong to my son, so they were used and abused by a 5 bachelor household for about the first 3 years he had them, and they're still going strong. Spray or run some cold water into the hot pan (watch out for a burst of steam if the pan is really hot) swirl that around, dump it, then wipe out with a soapy wet rag and rinse well. That's all it takes.

                Do not EVER store food in your Scanpans. That's another way to damage the surface.

                1. re: ZenSojourner
                  m
                  mikie May 16, 2011 01:53 PM

                  "There is nothing "misleading" about their advertising. It is a proprietary finishing technique that is NOT Teflon. It uses PTFE - but it's NOT TEFLON."

                  Teflon(r) is DuPont's regestered tradmark (trade name) for a series of fluoroplastic resins including FEP (Fluorinated Ethylene Propylene), TFE / PTFE (Polytetrafluoroethylene), and PFA (Perfluoroalkoxy), along with several other fluoropolymers. The point here is, that chemically Teflon(r) PTFE and other PTFE are all Polytetrafluoroethylene, if they weren't, they would be called something else. If I may quote the Bard, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

                  PFOA (Perflorooctanoic acid), is another issue. What makes the Scanpan advertising a bit misleading is the claim it contains no PFOA, the fact is that none of the commercialy manufactured "nonstick" cookware should contain PFOA, as it is supposed to be removed as part of the process. The catch is that these polymers still contain telemers, which may degrade with time and form PFOA. At the present time PFOA is used in the manufacture of fluoropolymers and there is no current process without PFOA, although a number of manufacturers are working towards that goal. Although I agree, Scanpan is not your grandmother's non-stick PTFE pan, if the sole objection is to the use of PTFE, then Scanpan is not the answer. I have one, I like it, I'm not loosing any sleep over the issue of PTFE, but some people do loose sleep over the issue and I'm just trying to keep the technical part of the discussion correct.

                  1. re: mikie
                    ZenSojourner May 19, 2011 03:35 AM

                    I disagree. Teflon was used as a film coating; when people buy Teflon they're not thinking of the chemical but instead of the original Teflon pans that had a surface that peeled off if you looked at it funny. They may be worried about PTFE, but it's the peeling-off-into-the-food that they're most worried about. I can't speak to other nonstick surfaces incorporating PTFE (I will say my 10 year old T-Fal hasn't peeled, though it has got a few scratches by now); but Scanpans don't peel under normal use (or even normal abuse).

                    Scan pan is VERY clear on their website that they do use PTFE. They do NOT however use PFOA in their manufacturing process. Whether or not it's ok to think PTFE and Teflon interchangeably is an issue of semantics; this is not. There is NO PFOA in Scanpans at any point in the manufacturing process anymore since they don't use it any more. It was never a problem on the consumer end, despite the hype and hysteria. It WAS, however, a potential problem for the guys working in the factory; it isn't anymore since they don't use it anymore.

                    http://www.scanpan.dk/Green%20Tek

                    NO PFOAs in Scanpan, at any point in the manufacturing process.

                    1. re: ZenSojourner
                      m
                      mikie May 19, 2011 07:14 AM

                      You are certianly entitled to your opinion, however, regardless of it's ability to bond to the pan or how it's applied, chemically Teflon(r) is PTFE. They do admit they use PTFE, but claim to be PFOA free, as I said, anyone can make that claim. SwisDiamond claims they use less PTFE and are therefore safer. The thing is, PFOA has been used in the manufacturing process of PTFE at some point.

                      However, I was able to do a little additional research that revieled the following article, but notice the date:

                      PTFE Goes ‘PFOA-Free’
                      ShareThisFrom: Plastics Technology
                      Issue: February 2009

                      Early this year, Asahi Glass Co., Ltd. in Japan, parent of AGC Chemicals Americas, Inc., Downingtown, Pa., plans to introduce the Fluon E-Series of PTFE resins made without perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA). PFOA has been widely used as a polymerization surfactant in making fluoropolymers, but it has fallen under scrutiny for potential toxicity and widespread presence and persistence in the environment. AGC has developed an alternative surfactant that has been approved for use in the U.S. and Japan. AGC plans to convert not only Fluon PTFE but also all its other fluorinated products to PFOA-free production by 2012. AGC Americas resells and compounds fluoropolymers made in Japan. (800) 424-7833 • www.agcchem.com

                      AGC Chemicals Americas, Inc.
                      Franklin Bldg Ste 300
                      101 Pomd's Edge Dr Chadds Ford, PA 19317-8301
                      Phone (610) 388-4000 Fax (610) 388-4001

                      This was the only article I could find for PFOA free PTFE. Assuming Scanpan uses this PTFE, they wouldn't have been PFOA free until some time later in 2009.

                      1. re: ZenSojourner
                        Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 07:26 AM

                        Zen,

                        I really have no idea what are you going for. Mikie is a huge fan of Scanpan and has been recommending them to everyone. Mikie is being honest about the chemical composition of Scanpan. That is the fact that Scanpan has PTFE and it is the same as Teflon. Teflon is just the Dupont's brandname for PTFE. Frisbee is the brandname for flying disc.

                        Mikie is/was in this plastic industry. He worked his whole life there and was the editor for a polymer/plastic handbook if I am not mistaken, which is not something to sneeze at. Mikie ain't no average person here. He is an true expert here. He knows more about what is in Scanpan than most Scanpan employees. I am no polymer scientist like Mikie, I am more of a gas phase chemist, but I do know some science. Watching your argurments with Mikie over and over about polymer science is really something. You probably has no idea what it looks like to another scientist, but it is very funny. It is like watching those car crashs in movies where the cars got tossed in the air and flipped over and over and then explosed.

                        I have been supportive for nonstick cookware, just look at my recent post on the "Best fry pan for eggs". Again, the only thing I pointed out is that Scanpan advertisment is very misleading when they claim to be Teflon free, because they well know that many people would think that is the same as PTFE-free. In fact, Scanpan simply does not have Dupont's PTFE but have generic PTFE made by another company.

                        The two of us have nothing against nonstick or Teflon cookware.

                        1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                          m
                          mikie May 19, 2011 07:49 AM

                          Chem, thank you, you are as usual right on the money. I love my Scanpan, it's a great pan for eggs and I wouldn't hesitate to get another if I ever need to. But I got it knowing full well that it is a PTFE coating and I'm ok with that. Being in the industry for almost 40 years now, I can pretty much sort through the BS. I'm not nor have I ever been employed by a PTFE manufacturer, so it's not my greatest area of expertise, but I know where to find accurate and reliable information beyond a google search. And I do have sales and contacts in the coatings industry and afterall, that's what we're talking about is a coating on an aluminum pan.

                          A couple of funny stories related to tradenames. A long time ago I bought a GE refrigerator and the salesman tried to tell me the veggie drawer wasn't plastic it was Lexan(r). Well Lexan is a registered trade mark at the time for one of GE's plastics. I came unglued, my wife left embarrised, the sales guy was totally befuddeled, but don't try to tell me Lexan isn't plastic. Another funny story while looking at leather chairs, the salesman told me a chair was Naugahide(r), so I asked if that was better than split leather or top grain leather. His response was he thought it was somewhere in between. So I asked how many Naugas it took to make a chair as I understood they weren't very big. Afterall, the molecular weight for vinyl is only about 62.5 grams/mol. I didn't buy a chair from this bozo.

                          1. re: mikie
                            d
                            DPGood May 19, 2011 08:45 AM

                            Love your Naugas story!

                            1. re: mikie
                              Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 09:17 AM

                              Funny stories. :) Your wife must have tried to "disown" whenever you did these, as if pretending she does not know you. :)

                              1. re: mikie
                                t
                                timkennedy Jun 10, 2011 10:44 AM

                                An office I used to work at had a bunch of Ikea couches that were 100% certified free-range Nauga. ;)

                                You wouldn't believe how many people bought it.

                        2. re: ZenSojourner
                          Chemicalkinetics May 16, 2011 02:10 PM

                          "It won't outgas until something over 2000 F "

                          Where did you get that from? That is wrong

                          "There is nothing "misleading" about their advertising. It is a proprietary finishing technique that is NOT Teflon."

                          Yes, it is misleading. Most people who read Scanpan claims of "no Teflon" has a completely different idea than the truth. Thus, the very definition of misleading. Proprietary finishing matters not. Most companies have proprietary processes, they don't go out and deny the ingredients. This is like saying you have a secret recipe for chocolate cookies, so now you makes claim that your cookies contain no chocolate nor flour because it went through some secret baking process.

                          The propritary process has nothing to do Teflon vs PTFE. It has to do trademark.

                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                            ZenSojourner May 19, 2011 03:38 AM

                            Now THAT'S misleading. Scanpan folks don't deny what's in their cookware. Yes, they use PTFE. No, it's not Teflon. They're not claiming their chocolate chip cookies don't have chocolate chips in them, they're saying that the chocolate chips they use are not Tollhouse.

                            1. re: ZenSojourner
                              Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 06:32 AM

                              "Now THAT'S misleading. Scanpan folks don't deny what's in their cookware"

                              You mean the fact that they put in bold signs that they don't have Telfon and then put in fine print on their website that they have PTFE? Telfon is such a popular term that most people use it to describe PTFE. The more correct example is frisbee. Technically, the only frisbees are those sold by Wham-O due to brandname, but people simply associate Frisbee with Flying Discs. Seriously, how many people you know are specificially against Dupont's Telfon but ok with the generic PTFE? This is like saying I hate playing frisbee, but I like playing flying disc. That consitutes a very small percentage of people. Probably people who have personal dislike of the company Wham-O

                              Considered the fact that we have several posts about Scanpan (including this one), and considered the fact that all of the original posters believed "Scanpan has no PTFE/Teflon" and then found out the truth, I think these are very good proofs that these posters have all been misled. So yes, Scanpan advertisment misled them. I challenge you to go back to these old posts and look for people who specifically against Teflon pan, and see their reactions when they found out that Scanpan has PTFE. When they said they are against Teflon, they meant exactly PTFE, any PTFE, they didn't mean Dupoint's version of PTFE. Here is an example of Paul trying to get rid of Teflon pans. He meant all PTFE not Dupont's PTFE.:

                              http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/6960...

                              If I have been so misleading, then I really wonder why Trolley wrote to me that "you have helped me SO much today. i really appreciate your input. your the kind of person that makes me come back to chowhound" and Paul wrote: "Turns out (thanks to Chemical Kinetics) that the Force Blue line might be better for me."

                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                trolley May 19, 2011 12:05 PM

                                i still stand by what i wrote too! this conversation has helped me quite a bit about PTFE/PFOA/Teflon. i'm now fine with using my scanpan and understand it's the gas that i need to look out for. i have other issues with scanpan (finding that the surface area is much wider than all clad and i'm having trouble with it) but other than that i'm now ok with using it. i'm still planning on buying a Debuyer as well.

                                i feel like i've been misled by scanpan and i think the employee at sur la table is duped by their marketing as well. it's like saying we have no advil in our product but in fine print it claims it has ibuprofen in it, right?

                                1. re: trolley
                                  Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 12:43 PM

                                  "i feel like i've been misled by scanpan and i think the employee at sur la table is duped by their marketing as well"

                                  Trolley, you are not the first and won't be the last. There were several other posters felt the same way. I think Scanpan is a fine product and it is a good long lasting nonstick pan. Mikie has an excellent experience with this product.

                                  Like Mikie, I just don't think it should market itself with a bold sign of "Teflon-Free" Well, at least it used to do that. Not sure if it still does this.

                                  "we have no advil in our product but in fine print it claims it has ibuprofen in it"

                                  Or: Sorry, I don't have Kleenex for you (because I only have the generic facial tissue).

                        3. re: trolley
                          Chemicalkinetics May 16, 2011 12:07 PM

                          Trolley,

                          Depending on your reasons for "avoiding Teflon", you will have to make a decision. Scanpan uses PTFE which is exactly the same chemical as Teflon (not a frakking atomic difference) -- just as Mikie has said. Now, the Teflon is more embedded into the Scanpan, so a Scanpan has better physical durability However, its chemical stability is the same. It will deform and melt and degass just like another PTFE/Teflon pan.

                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                            trolley May 16, 2011 02:11 PM

                            oh boy! thanks for everyone's input. i'm ok with using teflon or PTFE for myself but i worry about making food for my chowpup who is only two years young. it was flaking into his prepared food and i can only blame myself for this. i probably used the pan at a higher heat which resulted in this mess. granted i think he only ate flaking teflon once or maybe twice i don't want to risk it again as i'm reading teflon is just no good.

                            i use the 10" almost everyday when i fry up his food. i'm thinking of returning it and exchanging it for the DeBuyer, which is a simply a mineral steel or at least i hope that's what it is.

                            1. re: trolley
                              Chemicalkinetics May 16, 2011 02:17 PM

                              Trolley,

                              "my chowpup who is only two years young. it was flaking into his prepared food"

                              To be honest, the dangerous of Teflon and PTFE lies not in the stable Telfon. In other words, the flaking intact Teflon is actually very inert and safe. I have no problem swallowing some white Teflon tape. The debate is more about the invisible gas coming off from the cookware. I personally think Teflon is very safe, but I also understand some people are concern about the gas coming off from Teflon. In the cast you are worry about the outgassing from a typical Teflon pan, then Scanpan will likely have the same issue. Again, I personally think these Scanpan and Teflon pans are very safe, but I also don't want to mislead you on the Scanpan's ingredient. So I will let you decide.

                              I have a Debuyer pan. I like it a lot. There are several posts in CHOWHOUND.

                              1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                trolley May 16, 2011 02:31 PM

                                chemicalkinetics, so it's the gas that's toxic and from what i understand it's almost impossible to heat the pan up so you produce the gas? is that right?

                                you have helped me SO much today. i really appreciate your input. your the kind of person that makes me come back to chowhound

                                1. re: trolley
                                  r
                                  redbeanbun May 16, 2011 03:41 PM

                                  trolley, as CK stated, if you eat flakes of teflon from your pan, you body doesn't have the ability to process and absorb thru the stomach. however, bioaccumulation of teflon is from inhaled fumes. what ppl overlook is that food packaging, clothing, carpet, wall paint, and other household textiles are often treated with teflon to give it a little stain resistance. our potential to absorb teflon (fumes) from these sources are much higher than a cooking pan. if you're worried about the chowpup, check her clothing and keep her from snorting carpet.

                                  1. re: trolley
                                    Chemicalkinetics May 16, 2011 05:16 PM

                                    Trolley,

                                    Your very welcome. Just trying to be truthful like Mikie.

                                    Yes, the gases are toxic. When used correctly, it should be fairly unlikely to outgas a Teflon pan to hurt a human. However, I won't say it is impossible. Certainly there are people who get sick from overheated Teflon pans.

                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever

                                    You may find this short article to be useful:

                                    http://www.ewg.org/reports/toxicteflon
                                    http://www.ewg.org/files/infographic_...

                                    EWG (Environment Work Group) is very much oppose the use of nonstick and Teflon cookware, so it certainly is not a moderate group on Teflon.

                                    1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                      ZenSojourner May 19, 2011 04:01 AM

                                      That's 570F to 870F! If you're pan is that hot something's on fire! You've been very very careless if you've heated any pan up that high. If there was oil in it you've passed the flashpoint. That is NOT proper use.

                                      Outgassing is a problem in manufacturing environments because things DO reach those kinds of temps in a factory. Also in fires. Which I hope we're not having any of in a kitchen, in which case I'd be more worried about what's coming out of that burning countertop than whether or not a scan pan is outgassing. Plus a lot of the cases of "polymer flu" involved outgassing over a period of HOURS - again, why would you heat a pan to 800F and keep it there for an hour? You're going to have a house fire if you walked off and left a stove on for that long with ANY kind of pan on it.

                                      I kept cockatiels for years and used Scanpans daily. Nobody died or even got sick.

                                      Cooking oil itself can be carcinogenic, as someone else pointed out.

                                      http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content...

                                      I wish I could find the original reference, but basically in order to get detectable and potentially dangerous off-gassing of modern non-stick cookware you would have to hit it with an arc-welder. You may get offgassing at lower temps but it's undetectable (in tests using instruments that were calibrated to measure close to the range where it may be a potential hazard). At lower temps the outgassing is of totally different substances as well. The dangerous stuff starts outgassing at the really high temps - over 660F. That's when it STARTS. I'll keep looking, I should have bookmarked it. I'm pretty sure the link is on Chowhound somewhere since I think that's where I saw it to start with.

                                      Older "Teflon" products, that used that plastic film that peeled so easily, were more susceptible to heat degradation than the modern processes that incorporate PTFE in with other substances. The newer coatings are far more stable at high temps than the original coatings.

                                      There are so many other factors in the environment that are problematic and not easily avoidable. Smog. Second hand smoke. FIRST hand smoke. Car exhaust. At least with non-stick cookware all you have to do is NOT set it on fire, LOL!

                                      It's simple. Don't overheat it and you'll be fine. If you manage to get your pan surface up to 800F, you're doin' it wrong!

                                      1. re: ZenSojourner
                                        d
                                        DPGood May 19, 2011 05:34 AM

                                        Absolutely right. Would add that if you're heating the pan on high, you're using the wrong pan. Most manufacturers provide pretty good care and use guidelines. Follow them.

                                        1. re: ZenSojourner
                                          Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 06:40 AM

                                          "That's 570F to 870F! If you're pan is that hot something's on fire! You've been very very careless if you've heated any pan up that high."

                                          No... it is lower... didn't you read the links? Moreover, it is certainly not the 2000oF you were talking about. Remember you wrote "It won't outgas until something over 2000 F"

                                          In another post, it claims that "According to peer-reviewed studies as reported by the EWG, nonstick cookware, including Teflon®, begins outgassing particles at 396°F (202.2°C). "

                                          http://www.wisegeek.com/is-teflon-dan...

                                        2. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                          ZenSojourner May 19, 2011 05:28 AM

                                          K, here's one, not to the specific testing that has the actual data in it but at least a statement of the FDA's stand on safety:

                                          "Perfluorocarbon resin is a tough, nonporous and stable plastic material that gives cookware and bakeware a surface to which foods will not stick and that cleans easily and quickly. FDA has approved the use of this material as safe for food-contact surfaces. The Agency has determined that neither the particles that may chip off nor the fumes given off at high temperatures pose a health hazard."

                                          http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/Foo...

                                          There's a difference between when something starts to outgas and how and when it outgases enough to actually be a danger to humans. Yes, a nonstick coating containing PTFE will START to outgas SOME particles in miniscule amounts at around 600F; other particles won't start to outgas until closer to 700F. But if you have an empty pan on the stove at that high a temperature, you have MUCH more immediate problems to worry about than whether or not any potentially outgassing chemicals have had time to reach a toxic level yet.

                                          1. re: ZenSojourner
                                            Chemicalkinetics May 19, 2011 06:43 AM

                                            I think you are barking up the wrong tree. When did I ever say it is dangerous to use Teflon cookware. I have repeatedly said they are safe in my opinion. That being said, it is still misleading to advertise "Scanpan as Teflon-free". Yes, it is technically free of Dupont version of PTFE, but it is not free of PTFE. People should be given the correct information. Telling people that Scanpan has no Telfon to lure people who are scared to use PFTE is dishonest.

                                2. re: trolley
                                  m
                                  Merritt8 Nov 27, 2011 04:18 PM

                                  Trolley, I was wondering if you ever replaced your 14" teflon AC with a Scanpan or the deBuyer and if you liked what you bought and why?

                                  1. re: Merritt8
                                    trolley Nov 27, 2011 04:40 PM

                                    hi merritt8, out of pure laziness and frankly not enough room for the debuyer (it's big pan) i kept the scan pan. it's been working out nicely. i first had to get used to the larger sauté area and the lower sides of the pan. it really annoyed me at first but it seems to be fine. nothing ground breaking but a reliable pan. i haven't taken a metal appliance to it as the salesperson at sur la table suggested as an option. i do notice light surface scratches as well but so far it hasn't fallen apart!

                                    1. re: trolley
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                                      Merritt8 Nov 27, 2011 04:54 PM

                                      hi trolley - thanks for the quick reply! i just bought 2 scanpans on friday and broke one out this morning. i was really happy with it, but was wondering about the deBuyer as well and actually started a discussion on it. i chose to to stick with the scanpans for issues of not cooking at high heats with it and the weight issue - though really I just thought it was a really nice teflon. Still I was curious as to what you had decided as I have other non-stick pans I will need to replace in the near future. One being an 8" and then a 14". I may try out the 8" inch deBuyer just to compare before plunking more into Scanpan. Not sure I would do it on a larger pan though if it is really that big - I would find it hard to handle.

                                      1. re: Merritt8
                                        trolley Nov 28, 2011 02:19 PM

                                        i have the 8" as well in the scan pan. my decision was based on the fact that i was trying to replace my 10" all clad which i pretty much ruined due to negligence. i think the scan pans are expensive but so are all clads. i like the idea of the DeBuyer but i just have no room for it in my teeny kitchen. i think it's all about having a good set of non sticks and a few pans that can be used at high heat. one day i'm going to get a DeBuyer once i get a new kitchen!

                              2. ChowFun_derek Nov 28, 2011 10:51 PM

                                Doesn't All Clad have a lifetime warranty?? Shouldn't they just replace your pan? (btw..I like my ScanPan very much...)

                                2 Replies
                                1. re: ChowFun_derek
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                                  eliz553 Nov 29, 2011 07:04 AM

                                  All Clad nonstick is crap. I also had the entire nonstick coating start to peel off as a sheet. They did, however, replace it (with a plain stainless-no nonstick coating, which I requested as my replacement) at no charge to me. (ETA That I did not use the All Clad nonstick in any negligent way; I actually had been extremely careful with it).

                                  I have had the best longterm results from Scanpan, out of any nonstick stuff I have ever used. I have 2 pieces that I have used for a few years now.

                                  1. re: ChowFun_derek
                                    trolley Nov 29, 2011 09:13 AM

                                    they DO have a warranty but it's also within limits. you can't scorch it and then expect it to get it replaced. there has to be a legit defect or so they said. by examining mine they said i used it at a too high heat so therefore the surface started to crack.

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