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Fruit Caviar: How Do They Do It?

opinionatedchef May 11, 2011 11:56 PM

On another, Boston, thread we started talking about these amazing 'fruit caviar' bubbles that are a topping option for a number of frozen yoghurt shops. Luther referred to them as
"alginate/calcium reagents used to make the "fruit caviar" topping". Can anyone explain in layman's terms how these bubbles work?( I am absolutely chemistry-challenged but am fascinated by these things.) Thanks much!

  1. twyst Sep 12, 2011 01:54 AM

    or something like this for $195 cheaper.

    http://www.amazon.com/Wilton-Regular-...

    1. pikawicca May 28, 2011 08:09 AM

      Just procured the chemicals needed to do this. Planning to make pomegranate bubbles to garnish an eggplant dish in lieu of pomegranate seeds,which I can't get right now.

      13 Replies
      1. re: pikawicca
        twyst May 28, 2011 09:29 AM

        Sounds like a great application! Good luck and let us know hoe it works out for you!

        1. re: pikawicca
          c
          celeryroot May 28, 2011 02:58 PM

          http://drgateau.com/?p=430

          1. re: celeryroot
            pikawicca May 28, 2011 03:23 PM

            Thank you so much! Very useful information (and a great-sounding recipe).

            1. re: pikawicca
              c
              celeryroot May 28, 2011 03:54 PM

              I learned the hard way

              1. re: celeryroot
                pikawicca May 28, 2011 04:31 PM

                Yeah, try to avoid that route, if possible.

            2. re: celeryroot
              opinionatedchef May 28, 2011 04:48 PM

              i LOVE hot tickets; boy do they liven up life!! :-)

            3. re: pikawicca
              twyst Jun 30, 2011 09:34 PM

              We never got an update, how was your first adventure in spherification?

              1. re: twyst
                opinionatedchef Jul 1, 2011 09:35 PM

                have i told you that in summer, I get rather ADDish? We own a mini arboretum/garden that we keep open to the public 24/7 , and NOW is the season to plant 15 new japanese maples and hundreds of other new plants......... ..So, I ordered online the hysterical 'sushi kit' linked above, but am saving it for some other time. whew!
                www.cottonarboretum.com/

                1. re: opinionatedchef
                  s
                  sqboo Aug 3, 2013 12:59 PM

                  I've been driving past your home for over a decade, wondering, wondering-- it is beautiful!! Thank you!

                  1. re: sqboo
                    opinionatedchef Aug 3, 2013 11:15 PM

                    wow, that's great! it's free and open 24/7 . no need to call or email, just come whenever you want. entry is in the driveway. hope you'll stop by and explore; i know you'll be surprised back there!

                2. re: twyst
                  pikawicca Jul 2, 2011 06:35 AM

                  Had to play around some with the timing, but ended up with lovely little pomegranate spheres. "Modernist Cuisine" has a very helpful section on spherification.

                  Sorry, this is in reply to twyst.

                  1. re: pikawicca
                    twyst Jul 2, 2011 11:55 AM

                    I'm just getting into the third book, haven't gotten to that chapter yet! I think that stuff is in book 4 right?

                    1. re: twyst
                      pikawicca Jul 2, 2011 12:46 PM

                      Yes. 4-184.

              2. vil May 23, 2011 06:54 PM

                Some 30 years ago, there was a children's candy/snack from Asia that consisted of two different kinds of liquids. You drip the coloured liquid into the relatively clear liquid, and the coloured liquid would set immediately to form "caviar". Then you are supposed to drink up. I am quite sure that was based on the same phenomenon!

                I wish I could find a picture or at least some information on it. I cannot even remember what packaging it came in, except that I thought it was quite cool.

                8 Replies
                1. re: vil
                  opinionatedchef May 23, 2011 07:42 PM

                  no kidding! how great!! did you see it in asia or the u.s.?

                  1. re: opinionatedchef
                    vil May 23, 2011 08:12 PM

                    I came across it where I grew up, in Asia. I am actually a bit surprised that there is so little mentioning of it on the Web, and mostly only from those who had been asking if anyone else remembered about it.

                  2. re: vil
                    d
                    dontcallmethefword May 25, 2011 12:53 PM

                    It's called Popin' Cookin'. here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr-qew...

                    Funny. I just ordered a couple of these for the next hydrocolloids demo we're doing.

                    1. re: dontcallmethefword
                      opinionatedchef May 25, 2011 05:25 PM

                      don't>> can you hear me cackling all the way down there?this is absolutely hysterical and i am going to play it every time i need to squeal with delight!!

                      now that i see this, i am soo going to do this eventually. so easy. can't thank you enough. That textured toro is a HOOT.

                      1. re: opinionatedchef
                        d
                        dontcallmethefword May 26, 2011 08:41 AM

                        When I saw it , I flipped out. I was laughing and amazed at the "home application" of hydrocolloids for kids. I tracked it down and ordered three of them.

                        1. re: dontcallmethefword
                          c
                          celeryroot May 26, 2011 12:39 PM

                          http://www.amazon.com/Popin-Cookin-Ha...

                          1. re: celeryroot
                            opinionatedchef May 26, 2011 08:51 PM

                            super thank you! i've ordered a few, to get my feet wet and giggle doing it; then i'll go the real science route!

                      2. re: dontcallmethefword
                        vil May 27, 2011 06:16 PM

                        Not exactly the same thing (because the one I had was made in Taiwan, I think) but this one is even better, and so much more elaborate! I'm going to order it for myself and for the little one at home.

                        By the way, the one I had was called Di-di-le in Chinese.

                    2. b
                      BelovedofIsis May 22, 2011 04:59 AM

                      One word: COOL. I want to make them! I haven't encountered these before, must try!

                      2 Replies
                      1. re: BelovedofIsis
                        opinionatedchef May 22, 2011 08:52 AM

                        per your moniker, i'm figuring you must be in cal., but if you're near boston, come on over!i am definitely going to need some handholding on this one, when i'm brave enough.

                        1. re: opinionatedchef
                          b
                          BelovedofIsis May 22, 2011 06:25 PM

                          Lol I was born in Boston! However I'm located in England right now, how bout you come out here, nice quiet country kitchen is the best kind to experiment in! ;)

                      2. pdxgastro May 20, 2011 09:09 PM

                        I feel the need to opine that fruit caviar, flavored foams and all that molecular gastronomy stuff is a bunch of hooey.

                        10 Replies
                        1. re: pdxgastro
                          d
                          dontcallmethefword May 20, 2011 09:22 PM

                          Okay. Why? What was the experience with it that turned you off to the techniques? I think that if you jump in a thread to call "hooey", you should at least give a reason why.

                          1. re: pdxgastro
                            opinionatedchef May 21, 2011 09:33 AM

                            what thefword said.

                            1. re: opinionatedchef
                              c
                              celeryroot May 21, 2011 02:28 PM

                              If your going to try make sure you look up reverse spherefication , as sometimes with higher calcium items you do the reverse. Have fun

                              1. re: celeryroot
                                opinionatedchef May 21, 2011 04:46 PM

                                i continue to be amazed by the knowledge of the CHs on this thread!

                                1. re: celeryroot
                                  d
                                  dontcallmethefword May 22, 2011 09:34 AM

                                  For sure! The higher calcium level in olives allows you to do a reverse. If you find good olives and make a puree with some of the juice, strain through a cheese cloth to filter out bits and you can make a large sphere. You basically can make an olive shape that when you bite into it releases the puree or juice. With this you definitely want to use calcium lactate instead of chloride. I actually make a dirty martini this way, after I make the olive spheres I soak them in vermouth and then drop them into shaken vodka and you can pop the spheres adding as much olive juice to your drink as you wish.

                                  1. re: dontcallmethefword
                                    twyst May 22, 2011 02:19 PM

                                    Jose Andres is kind of famous for the olives, which he kind of took from ferran adria

                                    Here is the recipe Andres uses

                                    http://starchefs.com/events/studio/te...

                                    1. re: twyst
                                      opinionatedchef May 22, 2011 02:37 PM

                                      YOU are great!! merci mille fois for that link!!

                                      1. re: twyst
                                        d
                                        dontcallmethefword May 22, 2011 04:35 PM

                                        Yes he is, but to his credit he did train at el bulli. I still highly recommend switching out the calcium chloride for lactate. This article is from 2007 star chefs, when everyone was still riding the chloride wave. The recipe is a good one though. Olives is a good place to start if you are just beginning to get in to spherification. Also, if you have the alginate and calcium for your caviar balls, you can still use this recipe without having to buy xantham and sodium citrate. xantham is just a thickener for the juice and the citrate is just a form of acidity.

                                      2. re: dontcallmethefword
                                        b
                                        BelovedofIsis May 22, 2011 06:23 PM

                                        Wow thats awesome, when is cocktail time??

                                  2. re: pdxgastro
                                    pdxgastro May 27, 2011 09:34 PM

                                    Allow me to introduce myself. I'm an incredibly adventurous eater. I appreciate all the thought and effort that goes into every type of cuisine. But M.G.? It's over the top! It's too too much. (for me) But you're right and I'm sorry. Every on this thread loves it. So I'm bowing out and leaving y'all to it.

                                  3. d
                                    dontcallmethefword May 19, 2011 10:02 PM

                                    If you want to make these I suggest ordering your product from a website called Will Powder. All powders are not created equal. Calcium chloride though has a funky after taste, I would suggest subbing for calcium lactate at a 5% ratio to your alginate product. Also, I must interject with the referral to these items as 'chemicals' they are often from natural sources such as seaweed and the common misconception is that these powders are bad for you, when in fact they are not and used in many foods already without your knowledge. You need a digital scale, your juice, the hydrocolloids, a fine mesh or cocktail strainer and instead of a syringe, just use a squeeze bottle, it works better and faster. The key is properly hydration of the alginate, you can't just dump it in and stir and post calcium bath rinse.

                                    3 Replies
                                    1. re: dontcallmethefword
                                      opinionatedchef May 20, 2011 10:03 AM

                                      wow i wish you lived next door!thanks much for the great tips.
                                      had to send you this, per your moniker!:

                                      from the boston globe(Tales from the City) sunday 5/15 /11:
                                      "My parents and I were baby-sitting my sister’s children. As we sat down to lunch, my 4-year-old niece asked for a glass of milk. “What do you say?” my mother replied. “You gotta say the P-word,” her 7-year-old brother chimed in. “Please,” she said, and got her glass of milk. Her big brother continued, “Now you gotta say the F-word.” There was silence as my parents and I exchanged startled looks and my niece looked puzzled. “Fank you!” my nephew finished.

                                      -Joan O’Brien / Amherst, New Hampshire

                                      1. re: opinionatedchef
                                        d
                                        dontcallmethefword May 20, 2011 06:24 PM

                                        Ha! Nice. Let me know how it goes with the fruit caviar. you can actually do more than just juice with the technique as well.

                                        1. re: dontcallmethefword
                                          opinionatedchef May 22, 2011 05:47 PM

                                          I can't tell you how great it feels that every time i see your name in a 'recent posts' spot- i chuckle. i have a similar experience with a still active Boston board thread titled
                                          "Three Shwarmas and a Gyro walk into a bar... ". Love it!

                                    2. babette feasts May 12, 2011 07:14 PM

                                      Maybe they buy it: http://www.fruitcaviar.de/

                                      There is another, perhaps more accessible method which uses agar agar as the thickener, and the caviar mixture is dropped into chilled oil. Agar has a high melting point, so spherifies quickly once in the cold oil. Agar caviar is solid rather than potentially liquid inside like the alginate version.

                                      5 Replies
                                      1. re: babette feasts
                                        opinionatedchef May 12, 2011 08:50 PM

                                        well, that is pretty darn fun! thanks much for the link. there must be a U.S. producer too because the flavors i've seen in CA and here in MA are not this german producer's flavors. Gonna seek further!

                                        1. re: babette feasts
                                          twyst May 13, 2011 04:21 AM

                                          making fruit caviar is actually VERY easy, All you need is a digital scale, a syringe and the chemicals which can be bought from amazon.

                                          1. re: twyst
                                            opinionatedchef May 13, 2011 04:39 PM

                                            what great news! maybe i could find some chemistry inclined friends and have a fruit caviar making party!

                                            1. re: opinionatedchef
                                              f
                                              ferret May 13, 2011 06:18 PM

                                              http://trufflina.com/Store.html

                                              1. re: ferret
                                                opinionatedchef May 13, 2011 06:57 PM

                                                TOOOOOO much!!!!!! if i order, are you comin over to play? : - )
                                                <jumping up and down like 5 year old>

                                        2. f
                                          ferret May 12, 2011 04:59 AM

                                          If this interests you there's a wonderful series of video lectures by a number of chefs who visited Harvard last year to explain the science behind their methodology:

                                          http://itunes.apple.com/itunes-u/scie...

                                          #8 is directly on-topic but they are all fascinating.

                                          4 Replies
                                          1. re: ferret
                                            twyst May 12, 2011 05:54 AM

                                            Thanks for this great link! LOVE things like this. Now if only my copies of modernist cuisine would arrive ><

                                            1. re: ferret
                                              opinionatedchef May 12, 2011 10:14 AM

                                              man o man, ferret, you are one HOT TICKET!

                                              And all of you, what very helpful explanations; I am really delighted to learn about this! thanks so much.

                                              p.s. do yall have any idea when and where these fruit caviar were invented ?

                                              1. re: opinionatedchef
                                                f
                                                ferret May 12, 2011 10:19 AM

                                                The series is very entertaining. The first 10-15 minutes covers the scientific principles and can be skipped if you like. For me, the second episode with Joan Roca was exceptionally good, despite the poor translator. Hats off to Harvard for putting together such a great series.

                                              2. re: ferret
                                                FoodChic May 21, 2011 08:50 AM

                                                Thank you for posting this! What a great resource.

                                              3. f
                                                ferret May 12, 2011 04:54 AM

                                                Alginate is a seaweed-based thickener. In a ph-appropriate mixture (slightly acidic) the alginate-juice mixture reacts with the calcium chloride bath to create a gel. Depending on the size of the drops and the length of time it sits in the bath the drop can either be liquid inside or gel all the way through.

                                                1. Luther May 12, 2011 04:32 AM

                                                  Khymos also has a nice post on it

                                                  http://blog.khymos.org/2006/09/

                                                  1 Reply
                                                  1. re: Luther
                                                    honkman May 22, 2011 06:06 PM

                                                    His recipe collection with many "modern" recipes including "fruit caviar" is also highly recommended:

                                                    http://cdn.khymos.org/wp-content/2009...

                                                  2. twyst May 12, 2011 12:24 AM

                                                    Thats kind of the simplest explanation you can give for it. You mix sodium alginate into fruit juice and then drop it into a calcium chloride solution and it creates the spheres. The scientific reason as to why it happens is far more complicated.

                                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDIsfQ...

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