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Look out, folks! Guy & Rachael are teaming up for a new FN show!

cmvan May 11, 2011 02:46 PM

Just when you thought it couldn't get any wierder on Food Network, look what's coming up:


"The show is going to feature celebrities with varying degrees of culinary ability to come on the show and compete in two teams of five." Rachael Ray & Guy Fieri will each head up a team.

Like these two don't already have enough on their virtual plates...

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  1. mariacarmen RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 01:18 PM

    How can she even still talk? She sounds like she has vocal polyps, it pains me to listen to her.

    6 Replies
    1. re: mariacarmen
      goodhealthgourmet RE: mariacarmen May 13, 2011 05:33 PM

      i remember reading that she had a benign cyst removed from one of her vocal cords - i think it was at least a couple of years ago...maybe she developed another one?

      1. re: goodhealthgourmet
        mariacarmen RE: goodhealthgourmet May 13, 2011 08:38 PM

        i read today somewhere that she said her doctor told her she "blew out" her vocal cords because she never stops talking (her words) and she's going to get a vocal coach to help her.

        1. re: mariacarmen
          tommy RE: mariacarmen May 14, 2011 05:57 AM

          A google search turns up no such news from any source. Could you provide a citation? Thx.

          1. re: tommy
            mariacarmen RE: tommy May 14, 2011 02:21 PM


            i just googled rachel ray's voice and it was the first on the list.

            1. re: mariacarmen
              tommy RE: mariacarmen May 14, 2011 03:01 PM

              I don't see where it says "her doctor told her she 'blew out' her vocal cords because she never stops talking." This blog post was written a month before it was announced that she had a benign polyp on her throat. That, I believe, was the issue. Not that she blew out her vocal cords from talking too much.

              1. re: tommy
                mariacarmen RE: tommy May 14, 2011 11:02 PM

                jeez. ok, she says she bruised her vocal cords by breathing wrong. and she "never shut up long enough for that to heal." it sounds in that article that she herself felt that her inability to stop talking was bad on her vocal cords (as she apparently didn't know yet she had a polyp. i wasn't attacking her. it's just uncomfortable to ME to hear her speak. it's grating. to ME. i'm sorry she had a polyp, which I actually posited originally, up-thread.

    2. inaplasticcup RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 01:21 PM

      Wonder Twin scratchy voices UNITE!!! :|

      1. d
        DougRisk RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 01:22 PM

        So, then, they need to find 10 "celebrities" for each new episode? If they only do, say, 10 episodes each year, that is (wait, let me do the math) ... 100 "celebrities", per year.

        Something tells me that this will not be Russell Crowe versus Reese Witherspoon.

        2 Replies
        1. re: DougRisk
          silvergirl RE: DougRisk May 16, 2011 04:18 PM

          I've got $10 says Coolio makes an appearance.

          1. re: silvergirl
            DougRisk RE: silvergirl May 16, 2011 04:32 PM


            Now, 99 to go.

        2. c
          cmvan RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 02:46 PM

          Perhaps, like with Top Chef spinning off Top Chef Masters, this will be a spinoff of Worst Cooks in America ( can you say 2 FN leaders, coaching teams of most likely cooking-inexperienced celebrities or faux-celebs).
          We'll just have to wait and see how they'll format it so it's not quite so redundant. But we don't hold our breath on that, do we...

          1 Reply
          1. re: cmvan
            paulj RE: cmvan May 16, 2011 08:13 PM

            maybe it is replacing Hollywood Squares as a haven for unemployed actors.

          2. rozz01 RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 04:56 PM

            I wonder if you can do an entire show of dueling inane catch phrases....

            1. tommy RE: cmvan May 13, 2011 07:14 PM

              This is great news. Two highly successful, pleasant, ambitious people. My community could use more people like that.

              1. a
                AAQjr RE: cmvan May 14, 2011 11:44 PM

                The sad thing is these day's they count as some of the better.. uhm cooks? no food presenters on TFN

                1. cowboyardee RE: cmvan May 15, 2011 12:04 AM

                  I could actually see the appeal of watching Zach Galifianakis f*** up a bearnaise sauce.

                  Sadly, I'd bet it's more Kato Kaelin f***ing up pasta salad.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: cowboyardee
                    mariacarmen RE: cowboyardee May 15, 2011 12:33 AM

                    ahaaha! good one, CBD.

                  2. a
                    awm922 RE: cmvan May 17, 2011 05:41 AM

                    All I can picture is both of them holding hands, skipping and laughing all the way to the bank. Make it while you can.

                    3 Replies
                    1. re: awm922
                      ttoommyy RE: awm922 May 17, 2011 06:48 AM

                      Exactly, awm922! Bunch of envious people on this board.

                      1. re: ttoommyy
                        LindaWhit RE: ttoommyy May 18, 2011 07:24 AM

                        Envious? OK, now THAT is funny!

                        Envious. That's what those who are tired of these two are. Riiigggghht. :-/

                        1. re: LindaWhit
                          mariacarmen RE: LindaWhit May 18, 2011 10:52 AM

                          ( : Thanks Linda. Some people can't accept that not everyone likes the same thing.

                    2. scubadoo97 RE: cmvan May 17, 2011 09:22 AM

                      Off the hook, got my evoo ready.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: scubadoo97
                        rozz01 RE: scubadoo97 May 17, 2011 04:41 PM

                        + 1

                      2. Breadcrumbs RE: cmvan May 17, 2011 04:52 PM

                        I'm so tired of competition shows on FN. Cakes, cupcakes, secret baskets...you name it! What ever happened to the good old Julia Child style cooking shows?

                        I know, I know, advertising dollars. Obviously someone is watching these.

                        Regardless of who's competing; I find these shows to be a turn off, which is why I'm tuning out.

                        51 Replies
                        1. re: Breadcrumbs
                          paulj RE: Breadcrumbs May 17, 2011 05:26 PM

                          There are plenty of plain cooking shows during the day, both on FN and CC. Saturday daytime is especially concentrated with cooking shows.

                          1. re: paulj
                            Breadcrumbs RE: paulj May 18, 2011 05:02 AM

                            Perhaps that's the case for FN in the US Paul but I live in Canada and the FN primarily airs competition shows from noon onwards on the weekends (which is when I might have the opportunity to watch . . . . the perils for working during the week!!!)

                            . . . it took me a while but I'm imagining by "CC" you were referring to Cooking Channel? If so, we don't get that in Canada.

                            1. re: Breadcrumbs
                              tommy RE: Breadcrumbs May 18, 2011 05:10 AM

                              Looking at the schedule for FN Canada, it looks like generally speaking Tues-Thurs, 3-7:30, cooking shows are scheduled. Probably upwards to 16 hours a week just in those timeslots.

                              How many hours do people have to watch TV? That seems like a lot of opportunity to watch someone roast a chicken or dice a tomato.


                              1. re: tommy
                                Breadcrumbs RE: tommy May 18, 2011 05:44 AM

                                Agree'd on those days & afternoon, early evening time-slots.

                                I mentioned it's advertising dollars that drive content so, during "Primetime", when most folks do tend to have time to spend watching tv, competition shows dominate which led me to conclude, that someone must be watching them.

                                1. re: Breadcrumbs
                                  tommy RE: Breadcrumbs May 18, 2011 05:52 AM

                                  So you'll agree that your assertion that "the FN primarily airs competition shows from noon onwards" is not accurate.

                                  1. re: tommy
                                    Breadcrumbs RE: tommy May 18, 2011 07:28 AM

                                    Sorry you misunderstood tommy, what I said in my OP was "I live in Canada and the FN primarily airs competition shows from noon onwards on the weekends"

                                    1. re: Breadcrumbs
                                      tommy RE: Breadcrumbs May 18, 2011 07:52 AM

                                      I totally misread this! Sorry about that. I was wondering how you could work during the day but still be concerned about what was on from noon onwards (during the week).

                                      Time for TiVo!

                              2. re: Breadcrumbs
                                paulj RE: Breadcrumbs May 18, 2011 09:26 AM

                                Cooking Channel is FN Canada - that is, a number of the 'new' shows on CC are Canadian. And all, except for Food Jammers are instructional. FN Canada stars are also appearing on Iron Chef America, either as contestants or judges.

                              3. re: paulj
                                twyst RE: paulj May 18, 2011 05:48 AM

                                The cooking shows they do still have are awful though. I learned things by watching Mario, Emeril, Bobby flay etc. All the cooking shows that are in production now are absurdly simple recipe's that a monkey could cook.

                                The only show I still enjoy on food network is "the best thing I ever ate"

                                1. re: twyst
                                  Breadcrumbs RE: twyst May 18, 2011 05:54 AM

                                  A very good point twyst. Before FN Canada launched we used to get the US version back in the day when Sarah Moulton, Emeril, Bobby Flay, Ming Tsai, Two Hot Tamales and others had terrific shows that really inspired. These shows aired on weekends and during Primetime and truly fuelled my passion to cook and try new recipes and techniques.

                              4. re: Breadcrumbs
                                L.Nightshade RE: Breadcrumbs May 18, 2011 10:34 AM

                                "I'm so tired of competition shows on FN. Cakes, cupcakes, secret baskets...you name it! What ever happened to the good old Julia Child style cooking shows?"

                                Boy, I'm with you there Breadcrumbs. I recently got TV after years of abstaining, partly because I thought it would be fun to have a cooking channel. Well, the cooking channel is the Food Network, and I have been sorely disappointed. I don't care about 10 foot long cakes, or towers of cupcakes, or competitions with strobe lights, or competing chefs full of hubris. I also don't want to learn about cooking with velveeta, or fast family meals from prepackaged ingredients. Cooking shows have come a long way down.

                                1. re: L.Nightshade
                                  Breadcrumbs RE: L.Nightshade May 18, 2011 10:41 AM

                                  Well said LN!!

                                  1. re: L.Nightshade
                                    paulj RE: L.Nightshade May 18, 2011 10:50 AM

                                    Judging from your profile, I can't imagine a cooking show that is advanced enough for you, especially if the show wants to attract beginning cooks as well. Cooking Channel (not the main FN one), and CreateTV (PBS subchannel) have more instructional shows, including Julia Child reruns. But those might be just as boring; you can only learn so much from seeing Julia make omelets again.

                                    Maybe you (and others who complain about the low standards of FN cooking shows) need to find other means of instruction. What's available on DVD? Classes at community colleges? Things you can borrow from the library? $400 book sets on Modern Cuisine?

                                    1. re: paulj
                                      rozz01 RE: paulj May 18, 2011 06:17 PM

                                      Couldn't there be a combination.. instead of always going to the lowest common denominator... It doesnt have to be guided to someone who just left for college after mom/dad's been cooking for them all their life...

                                      1. re: rozz01
                                        tommy RE: rozz01 May 18, 2011 06:42 PM

                                        Of course you could have shows just like you want! You could develop a show, pitch it to networks or some other outlets, and if you fund it yourself, it shouldn't be a problem to get it out there. But most likely you'll need money to produce it, in which case it becomes a bit more tricky. You see, in order for people to back it, they need some sort of guarantee on return, which, in the broadcast world, is closely tied to how many people will see it (i.e., enjoy it).

                                        If you have a niche show, it's best to put it on the internet, where the world is everyone's oyster. If you want it on a big network (like FN), it's just not going to happen for you. Thankfully there's the library, PBS, the internet, and some other outlets to find these shows. Therein, of course, lies the "combination" that you're looking for. It's all, right, there, waiting for you.

                                        1. re: tommy
                                          twyst RE: tommy May 19, 2011 06:30 AM

                                          Emeril's show seemed to do just fine ratings wise and he managed to showcase some real cooking along with some easier recipe's. Food network is now about opening cans and dumping them into a pot. It's ridiculous.

                                          30 minute meals
                                          5 ingredient fix
                                          and how can we forget the kwaanza cake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2iWT...

                                          these shows are a joke compared to the programs that actually made food network popular.

                                          1. re: twyst
                                            tommy RE: twyst May 19, 2011 06:32 AM

                                            I recall when food discussion boards were filled with Emeril haters. He was the anti-christ. Funny.

                                            1. re: tommy
                                              EWSflash RE: tommy May 26, 2011 01:07 PM

                                              I watched Emeril until I got burned out. His show was entertaining to me for a long time, only thing that bothered me was the way he mispronounced the names of foods- I disliked that coming from somebody who's so into food in general.

                                              1. re: EWSflash
                                                inaplasticcup RE: EWSflash May 26, 2011 02:33 PM

                                                I thought it was kinda funny when he called fish sauce "knock mom". :P

                                        2. re: rozz01
                                          paulj RE: rozz01 May 18, 2011 07:12 PM

                                          I wonder whether the distinction between beginning and advanced cooking instruction has to do with content or style (or something else)? If RR prepared the same recipe as M Symon did (in Secrets of an Iron Chef), would it be described as a beginners recipe just because of her style and how people perceive her?

                                          I started another thread trying to get people to move beyond the negative "I don't like RR's style".

                                          1. re: paulj
                                            tommy RE: paulj May 18, 2011 07:22 PM

                                            Move beyond? Lol!

                                            1. re: paulj
                                              cowboyardee RE: paulj May 18, 2011 07:41 PM

                                              A) Regardless of her style, her content is sort of basic - it's not an illusion. Here are two of her recipes chosen from a 30 second search through Google:
                                              Her 'kimchii': http://www.rachaelray.com/recipe.php?...
                                              Her white pizza: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ra...

                                              I wonder how people would react to her if she showcased some serious cooking without changing the rest of her shtick, but we're not imagining that her on-show cooking isn't very elaborate. In my mind, there's nothing wrong with simple food and cooking 101 tips, but the lack of TV programs of interest to an experienced cook or hobbyist is worth the occasional internet rant. And as the reigning queen of TV cooking shows, RR is an easy target. There's also the argument set forth by Anthony Bourdain - that RR's style can convince people that all home cooking should be able to be prepared in under 30 minutes; that cooking more elaborate dishes (as well as many traditional recipes) is too hard and should be left to chefs. My favorite cooking TV hosts make complicated dishes look easy and attainable and inspiring.

                                              B) From what little I've seen of his show, I don't consider Michael Symon's cooking on Secrets of an Iron Chef to be particularly advanced either. Maybe a little step up from RR. I remember being disappointed that the show wasn't demonstrating the kind of cooking he does in competition. Could be wrong as I only saw maybe 1 episode.

                                              1. re: cowboyardee
                                                tommy RE: cowboyardee May 18, 2011 07:52 PM

                                                Bourdain's argument, or at least the one you attribute to him, is absurd.

                                                1. re: tommy
                                                  cowboyardee RE: tommy May 18, 2011 08:12 PM

                                                  For starters, Bourdain isn't exactly known for his subtlety, so the fact that his argument stretches a bit shouldn't surprise.

                                                  For another, I don't even find it particularly absurd to propose that the face of American home cooking influences people when she takes nearly every shortcut she can manage. That actually sounds pretty sensible to me. Is the problem her or the society that elevates her over much better and more ambitious cooks? Who knows. Probably a bit of both. Heck - it's probably not even a problem (at least on the scale of other societal problems), but it's not the world I'd choose. At any rate, she certainly influences the way Americans cook.

                                                  And since you seem to want to imply that I attributed a made up argument to Mr Bourdain, here is a link.
                                                  1 minute in or so.
                                                  Happy trolling to you, sir.

                                                  1. re: cowboyardee
                                                    paulj RE: cowboyardee May 18, 2011 08:54 PM

                                                    Rachael Ray
                                                    By Mario Batali Sunday, Apr. 30, 2006

                                                    In fewer than five years, Rachael Ray, 38, has radically changed the way America cooks dinner. Her perky-girl-next-door swagger.... placed her at the top of the talent love heap at the Food Network, which has changed its focus from information exchange to helpful encouragement.

                                                    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/art...

                                                    1. re: paulj
                                                      cowboyardee RE: paulj May 18, 2011 09:05 PM

                                                      Thanks for the link, though I believe that was one of those profile pieces for a '100 most ____ people' type articles - in other words, it was pretty well bound to be uncritical.

                                                      In truth, I don't have anything against RR as a person, or even really as a TV host. I just chafe a bit at her being the biggest, most influential cooking personality in the US.

                                                2. re: cowboyardee
                                                  melo7 RE: cowboyardee May 19, 2011 08:06 AM

                                                  I completely agree with Bourdain. RR teaches you how to assemble ingredients. She never teaches any technique so at the end of the day you have a collection of recipes but you really have no idea how to really cook. 30 Minute Meals assumes you will be a perennial beginner. For example, when she is making something and she's pouring boxed stock into her pot she often says, "you can use home made stock too!" but she never teaches you how to actually make your own stock.

                                                  1. re: melo7
                                                    tommy RE: melo7 May 19, 2011 08:59 AM

                                                    That's not what Bourdain was saying, so I'm confused as to what you're agreeing with.

                                                    Maybe they'll have a show on how to make stock. Watching water boil, though, probably not part of a solid business model. YouTube has some videos for that.

                                                    1. re: melo7
                                                      paulj RE: melo7 May 19, 2011 09:53 AM

                                                      So making stock is real cooking, while following one of RR's recipes is not? That is distinction is arbitrary.

                                                      But if a viewer of 30 minute meals wants to make their own stock there are good resources on FN. For example they could checkout Nadia G's Liquid Gold recipe


                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                        cowboyardee RE: paulj May 19, 2011 10:44 AM

                                                        I think you're holding melo7 to an unrealistically strict definition of 'really.' Heck - heating up a lean cuisine in the microwave is really cooking in the sense of applying heat to food. The issue with RR is that she doesn't teach people to cook particularly well.

                                                        Which I'd be more comfortable with if there was some admission that there is a world of technique and skill and possibilities beyond her 30 minute meals - that it's not even that hard. There's nothing at all wrong with a beginner's course in cooking, so long as it doesn't cannibalize (albeit in a very cheerful, sunny way) more elaborate and dedicated forms of the craft.

                                                        Julia Child might make a recipe that uses homemade chicken stock and explain for a minute or two how viewers could make it themselves; Alton Brown might use homemade chicken stock and then direct viewers to the episode all about making stock for more details (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=531v0T... ); Mario Batali might use homemade chicken stock but note that storebought stock is an acceptable substitute in the recipe at hand; many others might use storebought stock but note that the recipe would be even better with homemade ingredients.

                                                        But with RR, there is generally no such discussion. It's all - feel good about yourself, you're such a good cook, it's delish, no?

                                                        It's not a matter of whether you can make a good dish without making stock at home (of course you can). It's that she conveys that learning to do so isn't worth your while.

                                                        1. re: cowboyardee
                                                          paulj RE: cowboyardee May 19, 2011 01:16 PM

                                                          I wonder if anyone has done a serious survey of what or who influences home cooking? What is signficant? Friends, magazines, TV show, instructional shows, competitions shows, etc? I doubt if Bourdain has any special insight in to this. Who does he hobnob with when doing shows on various parts of the country? Fellow chefs, rock stars and wannabes, fans and bloggers. He probably has watched as many RR cooking shows as I have.

                                                          1. re: paulj
                                                            cowboyardee RE: paulj May 19, 2011 02:34 PM

                                                            I'm saying she's influential. Mr. Bourdain merely implied it. I'm afraid I have conducted no peer-reviewed studies on the matter.

                                                            On the other hand, I think it's totally fair to suggest that she's the product of rather than the driving force behind a society that by and large can't cook very well and doesn't try too hard to learn. There's probably something to that, though I still hold that influence works both ways. But then I don't know why you (to an extent) or Tommy would expect a forum full of foodies and serious cooks to applaud what she represents.

                                                          2. re: cowboyardee
                                                            junescook RE: cowboyardee May 25, 2011 02:15 PM

                                                            So when Jacques Pepin makes soup on his "Fast Food My Way" program and calls for good stock or canned;


                                                            You see this as somehow superior to Rachel Ray's calling for good stock in her
                                                            quick chicken and noodle soup recipe on her "30-Minute Meals" show.


                                                            I think to analyze the impact that any of these chefs or cooks has made, someone could look at the ratings and reviews posted online for their respective recipes, books etc. and count the number of individual readers/watchers who said that they had made the recipe and compare how they had rated it. Obviously this would be a more fair comparison among the FN people and there might have to be asterisks for number of years (or hours) of broadcasting. But we'd get an idea of the viewers' appreciation of the recipes of their popular hosts: Emeril, Batali, Flay, Gartin, and Ray among them.

                                                            And while Bourdain and some people on the board here so ardently dismiss Ray as discouraging good cooking, I believe that she's had the opposite impact, and lifted home cooking from the Cream of Mushroom Soup cuisine of my childhood to much a more creative menus, all while creating dinners that can be done after someone comes home from work.

                                                            1. re: junescook
                                                              cowboyardee RE: junescook May 25, 2011 03:16 PM

                                                              We can find plenty of individual exceptions within their vast bodies of work, I'm sure. So what? If you want to make a serious case that RR's cooking is as ambitious and skillful as Pepin's, be my guest - you're too far away to hear me laughing.

                                                              I'm not sure what you're getting at with your middle paragraph. That RR is no more influential than other hosts? I can't prove she is. It just stands to reason based on her obvious popularity edge. Or is your point that we need a team of expert statisticians to speculate on such things?

                                                              In terms of your last paragraph, we just disagree. I think that change was already underway before she came along (heck, Julia Child was introducing home cooks to great techniques 50 years ago). Emeril could arguably take some credit, as can Brown and Batali. RR came along once the creamocrap recipes were already looking like the dinosaurs they are, stood among a field of TV cooks who by and large are actually interested in and dedicated to cooking, and cheerfully proclaimed "why are you guys trying so dang hard? Cooking should be so easy an 8 year old could do it!" She's not discouraging home cooking - she's encouraging half-assed home cooking. Which, again, would be fine with me if she wasn't also the face of American home cooking.

                                                              1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                paulj RE: cowboyardee May 25, 2011 03:26 PM

                                                                Which of Pepin's cooking shows are we talking about? His most recent 'Fast food my way' ones?

                                                                Is there an objective way of measuring the simplicity or ambitiousness of recipes? I have RR book, a No Repeats, that was given to me. Presumably aimed at the same market is Pepin's The Short Cut Cook. In a quick glance, I'd say the RR recipes, on average, have more ingredients.

                                                                1. re: paulj
                                                                  cowboyardee RE: paulj May 25, 2011 03:42 PM

                                                                  We're talking his body of work on TV. If RR had spent a couple decades demonstrating her love of cooking and technique, making truly great foods approachable to the home cook, and generally rocking-out-with-her-Jacques-out, you would hear me speak no ill of her either.

                                                                  1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                    junescook RE: cowboyardee May 26, 2011 10:12 AM

                                                                    What I think you would find in the analyses is that more people had made her recipes than those of the others, including Childs' and Bourdain's. And by that I would consider her an influential cook and teacher. If a show is called 30-Minute meals it obviously is not going to going to include two-day recipes as many of Bourdain's are. Let's face it, Pepin's latest series were influenced by the popularity of her original TMM, and the realization that working men and women needed some simple recipes. Are you angry because she uses premade pasta while Mario makes his own from scratch? I think the nice thing about the FN site is that you can see how many people have used the recipe and how they have rated it. I won't knock something unless I try it.

                                                                    Btw, I've even been caught using Minor's base when I needed a bit of stock. Oh yeah, that's what Anthony said he used to sneak into his classes at the CIA, isn't it?

                                                                    1. re: junescook
                                                                      cowboyardee RE: junescook May 26, 2011 11:42 AM

                                                                      You're misunderstanding me. I'm not angry at all. Wistful, more like. I have cans of store-bought chicken broth in my pantry as well. And I have nothing against convenient, easy cooking. I have something against convenient, easy cooking being the only type of cooking that really flies in my country.

                                                                      I'd rather that RR was a niche among TV cooking personalities, rather than the top dog. Because frankly I don't need recipes to tell me how to make pizza from a storebought crust or throw together 'kimchi' that is actually just a quick pickle. And yes, in my ideal world, there would be many more Americans like me (why do you think I hang out here?) It would be nice if America's dominant home cooking culture aimed a little higher, is what I'm saying. It's not a travesty or the great failure of our society that convenience rules in home cooking, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or embrace it.

                                                                      Likewise, I think more ambitious TV cooking has more teaching value than the quick, easy stuff. You can dumb down and easy-up more elaborate and ambitious recipes, but you can't teach someone more ambitious cooking just from watching RR's quick and easy recipes.

                                                                      Finally, a big part of my point was that she is influential, so it seems we agree on that matter.

                                                                      1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                        scubadoo97 RE: cowboyardee May 26, 2011 03:27 PM

                                                                        I hear ya cowboy and frankly you need to change the channel because there is nothing on the FN that remotely comes close you your expectation of a higher level of cooking education. One of the reasons is that we food obsessed folks are have outgrown the FN long ago. I watch it out of boredom and for mild entertainment. If I learn one thing over a few shows I feel lucky. If I see one dish that I want to recreate I'm doing good. More often I watch the FN to help me go to sleep. Nothing puts me out faster than a few shows on the FN. I associate it with white noise.

                                                                        1. re: scubadoo97
                                                                          cowboyardee RE: scubadoo97 May 26, 2011 11:55 PM

                                                                          To steal a quote (from whom I don't remember anymore): I'm flogging the greasy spot on the driveway where once, long ago, a horse died, aren't I?

                                                                          Sleep is calling - time to turn on the TV.

                                                                      2. re: junescook
                                                                        paulj RE: junescook May 26, 2011 12:20 PM

                                                                        explains his philosophy behing 'fast food' series (from 2004). 30 Minute Meals dates from 2001, but probably wasn't a institution yet. Sara Moulton had 'Cooking Live' series on FN from 1997-2003, and Sara's Secrets for 5 seasons. So RR was not the first one with 'cooking-for-busy-people' shows.

                                                                        "hy did you decide to do a series and book now with a "fast food" theme?

                                                                        I think that most people are very busy these days, so they are receptive to anything that makes their lives easier -- including my version of "convenience" foods. .... for several years I had a column in The New York Times consisting of recipes for a family of six on a minimal food budget. Essentially, I guess I like the challenge of creating recipes to fit the demands of different situations. Moreover, ..., I found simple and quick appealing -- closer to how I cook at home from day to day."

                                                                        J Pepin's Short Cut Cook book dates from 1990.

                                                                        Convenient and easy cooking, both as books and shows, has been around a lot longer the RR and 30 minute meals.

                                                                        1. re: paulj
                                                                          cowboyardee RE: paulj May 26, 2011 12:45 PM

                                                                          "Convenient and easy cooking, both as books and shows, has been around a lot longer the RR and 30 minute meals."
                                                                          Yeah, but was it the dominant form of cooking in books and shows?

                                                                          Mind you, I'm not saying RR brought any of this about herself. American home-cooking has been convenience-centered for decades (at least), and I harbor very little nostalgia for the American home cooking of decades past. If RR represents anything new, it's just in the degree to which cooking media embraces American shortcut-laden home cooking. The problem then is that style of cooking reinforces itself when it's 90% of what you see. It doesn't need any additional reinforcement. Ambitious, careful, complex cooking does - that's part of what separates the great cooking cultures from our own.

                                                                          1. re: cowboyardee
                                                                            paulj RE: cowboyardee May 26, 2011 01:53 PM

                                                                            Do any of those 'great cooking cultures' rely on media (books, tv shows, magazines) to pass on their cooking traditions?

                                                                            1. re: paulj
                                                                              cowboyardee RE: paulj May 26, 2011 02:05 PM

                                                                              Good point. Truth is I don't know. Probably less than we do though.

                                                                            2. re: cowboyardee
                                                                              DougRisk RE: cowboyardee May 27, 2011 08:30 AM

                                                                              You have made your laudable point loud and clear for anyone wanting to listen. However, some people just love picking at nits.

                                                                              For me, you have gone above and beyond in your explanation. Well done.

                                                  2. re: L.Nightshade
                                                    paulj RE: L.Nightshade May 18, 2011 12:23 PM

                                                    Blogs, and customizable Internet sources, are probably the best way for an experienced cook to get the 'instructional fix'. And the cable producers are aware of that as well, because a number of the new cooking shows have their roots in blogs or Youtube channels.

                                                    1. re: paulj
                                                      tommy RE: paulj May 18, 2011 12:30 PM

                                                      This reminds me of the old saying about leading a horse to water.

                                                      1. re: paulj
                                                        cowboyardee RE: paulj May 18, 2011 01:01 PM

                                                        Even these blogger-ish shows ('Ask Aida' is the one that comes to me off-hand) still seem pretty basic - some nice basic tips, but not especially useful to a non-beginning cook.

                                                        On the other hand, there were never that many good instructional shows for cooks with more than an emerging or superficial interest in cooking - seldom more than one at a time. I mentioned this recently on another thread: Julia Child was decades ago, Jacques Pepin isn't making new TV AFAIK, Heston Blumenthal is busy with his restaurants - now that Alton Brown is putting Good Eats to bed, there's nobody right now to take up the mantle.

                                                        It's probably not realistic to expect the food network to be filled with modern day Julia Childs. But one or two in the same vein would be nice. At any rate, what with the food network pushing out Batali, filling their airwaves with dessert sculpting shows, and the 10 minute, 5 ingredient style of their few remaining shows actually about cooking, you have to admit that food TV doesn't seem to be courting experienced serious cooks as much as it used to.

                                                        1. re: cowboyardee
                                                          LiveRock RE: cowboyardee Jul 6, 2011 01:19 PM

                                                          Thank you! You pegged the very reason I refuse to watch FN anymore. Not only does the programming hold no interest...I am so beyond disappointed with the direction this channel has taken that it has become difficult to watch.

                                                    2. re: Breadcrumbs
                                                      rasputina RE: Breadcrumbs Jun 6, 2011 07:15 AM

                                                      They moved to Cooking Channel last year.

                                                      1. re: rasputina
                                                        paulj RE: rasputina Jun 6, 2011 07:31 AM

                                                        There are still a lot of cooking shows on daytime FN.

                                                    3. t
                                                      tiberiusj RE: cmvan May 18, 2011 06:57 AM

                                                      Ugh. Throw in Sandra Lee and you've got the bottom of the barrel triumvirate.

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: tiberiusj
                                                        pnkpssyct RE: tiberiusj May 18, 2011 07:10 PM


                                                      2. MC Slim JB RE: cmvan May 19, 2011 01:25 PM

                                                        I have referred to this as the Cheese-ocalypse, and am planning to exploit it by investing in companies that produce cheap drugstore hair dye and electric can-openers.


                                                        1. Withnail42 RE: cmvan May 27, 2011 04:01 AM

                                                          Quick someone get me a Garbage Bowl(tm)!

                                                          3 Replies
                                                          1. re: Withnail42
                                                            Breadcrumbs RE: Withnail42 May 27, 2011 11:25 AM

                                                            Love it!!

                                                            1. re: Withnail42
                                                              alliegator RE: Withnail42 May 29, 2011 10:35 AM


                                                              1. re: Withnail42
                                                                EWSflash RE: Withnail42 Jul 2, 2011 11:35 AM

                                                                LOL! I saw a RR garbage bowl advertised on a sidebar on Facebook, and it was so pretty I bought one. Do I put garbage in it? Hell no, it's too pretty! I'll get over it eventually and use it for stuff but right now it's kitchen eye candy. I got the green one.

                                                              2. s
                                                                shesallthat RE: cmvan Jul 4, 2011 07:47 PM

                                                                I really miss Cooking Live with Sarah Molton...I learned so much from watching that show.

                                                                1 Reply
                                                                1. re: shesallthat
                                                                  rozz01 RE: shesallthat Jul 5, 2011 08:34 PM

                                                                  I agree... plus she never seemed phony and forced... like Julia in that way..

                                                                2. jillbcooks RE: cmvan Jul 5, 2011 08:15 PM

                                                                  I guess they are the 21st century Jacques and Julia. Ugh.

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