THE DANGER OF EATING ‘EXPIRED’ LEFTOVERS?

[opinionatedchef]

Stamped on my forehead, for those looking, are the words “Question Authority." It’s true, I am a risk taker in many areas of life. In the world of food leftovers? Absolutely not with seafood (hepatitis warnings when we lived in Rome were enough to imprint that on my brain) and not much with meat/poultry (unless it’s been marinated or cooked with many acids and/or preservatives (yoghurt, ginger, garlic, citrus, etc.). My rule of thumb is- smelly food is an immmediate toss. If it’s moldy(white or occasional spores), I scrape the mold away and see if mold flavor still permeates the dish throughout. If yes, tossed it gets.. Likewise, if the container top is popped up (gasses from fermentation i think?) I inspect and taste.Yep, depression era parents combined with unwillingness to toss food that i’ve spent alot of time preparing (whenEVER that was.). I have sensitive taste buds, but that may also be considered a ludicrous statement by someone who knows more than I.

Now, to veggie dishes. I have been exploring alot of South Indian (vegetarian) cooking lately. Tonight I ate some home made curried vegetables (including eggplant, red pepper, onion, dal [lentils], green beans, tomato, ginger) whose plastic tub’s lid had popped up. They tasted ‘fine’. For you smart CHs and food scientists out there, what are possible ramifications of eating this or other vegetable dishes that may have gone a bit over their shelf life? Might you also comment on the same question as it pertains to cooked meat and poultry dishes? If the answer fills a book, plse don’t waste your time on me. I’d just like to have some basic understanding about these issues. In my 60 years, I have taste- tested, approved of,eaten and enjoyed many many dishes that others would have tossed just on account of how long they’ve been in the frig. But then again, maybe I’ve just been lucky. Thanks so much for your help.

[imfeelinpeckish]

A related question/situation is in the purchase of end of safe sale date. Would you buy meat, especially ground beef just before the safe sale date because a discount coupon is offered? Even if you'd use it rather soon?

[mpjmph]

Yep, I do it all the time. I'd say at least half of the meat I buy and prepare at home is reduced for quick sale. If I find something I use frequently, I'll buy as many packages as I can and freeze whatever I can't use that day. Every time I go to the grocery store, I scan the meat displays for bright yellow/orange stickers. I once bought 4 whole cryovac chickens for about $10 total, and just stuck them straight in the freezer. I also always check the back of the produce section for bruised/slightly wilted produce.

[c oliver]

We call it the "brown meat department" :) I'd say that the majority of our meat comes from that section, 30-50% off. I grind my own beef so don't have a strong opinion on that one. I think if I did buy ground beef I'd use it quickly and wouldn't freeze. It can continue to go bad (or is that worse?) once frozen - or so I was told by the meat guy.

[Kajikit]

The biggest possible ramifications? Salmonella and/or botulism. Maybe plain old e-coli... either way, a miserable case of food poisoning that will either make you very ill or land you in hospital. But I hope you got lucky!

if the lid is raised/puffed up istead of flat, it means the food has been off-gassing, and the biggest cause of off-gassing is spoilage.

[opinionatedchef]

so i just want to undstnd- VEGETABLES (no protein, no dairy) can cause ecolli, salmonella, etc?
thnx.

[EWSflash]

I wouldn't have thought so until some of the prepackaged salads and fresh spinach in grocery stores started causing food poisoning. My theory is that people don't wash the prepackaged salads, which is a big mistake IMO- if nothing else it refreshes the greens. My salad spinner is always at the ready, I fill up a big bowl with water and wash the greens in it, changing the water out a few times and then I spin it and store it in the fridge.

[babette feasts]

In the spinach contamination a few years ago ('06? '07?), the e.coli was IN the spinach and could not be removed by mere washing. It had to be killed by cooking to a certain temperature.

[c oliver]

Yes.

[Kajikit]

Of course they can. They're safer than meat/dairy and not nearly so temperature-sensitive. I don't go neurotic worrying about them, but nothing is absolutely 100% guaranteed.

The soil is absolutely filled with bacteria, and it might not all be removed when you wash them. If they're cooked and you handled them, they can pick up stray germs from the utensils, the cutting board, coming into contact with residue of other foods, stray germs from your skin... even by germs flying through the air.

Plain cooked rice and potatoes are a perfect growth medium for stray bacteria.

[mpjmph]

Salmonella and e coli on fruits and vegetables generally comes from cross contamination with animal waste either in the field or during processing. There are also cases of contamination from field/factory workers with active infections while working. Just one more reason to really know where your food comes from, and to take the time wash them yourself (no matter how clean the packaging promises it is).

[ediblover]

As long as the first day events went well (cooking and storing) I'll keep vegetable dishes in the fridge for a long time; I think the longest I've kept something is about 2 weeks.

All meats go south as soon as it has been killed, so in addition to the cooking and storing, you have an extra factor in the origin of the product. If it hasn't been treated well, it already has a rather high bacterial/toxin level and it won't store long. So, unless you killed it yourself, it's a gamble.

Buy/bake some bread, cut it up and store it under different conditions. Keeping one in a moist and warm environment (See mold within a couple of days) is vastly different than keeping one in a moist and cool environment (See mold after several days). A simple experiment like this gives you a general idea of things.

[OCEllen]

I've always followed the three day rule - if any leftovers are more than three days old they get tossed!

[Val]

I think Dr. Oz has the 4 day rule...that is so funny...just sayin' I KNOW I've heard him say that in a few videos...and it probably depends on what it is, smell test, etc. I know I always put leftovers towards the back of the fridge where it's a bit colder but my smell test has been tried & true for a long time. I know a co-worker who says she and her family refuse leftovers, period. I guess they throw lots of food away and what a shame.

[OCEllen]

All non-protein items go into compost here so not a total loss when tossed!

[opinionatedchef]

no, it's true, just for my tummy. (we do same here)

[chococat]

Botulism toxin is flavorless and odorless. And occasionally fatal. Just something to think about.

[opinionatedchef]

wow. now that is scary. but then again, i'm SIXTY!

[sunshine842]

and as we age, our immune systems and their ability to fight off malicious organisms declines.

If in doubt, throw it out. The money and aggravation of tossing out something you worked hard to make simply aren't worth even a few days of feeling awful, and can't even begin to be worth being hospitalized with an IV drip of fluids and antibiotics.

If it was all that ireesistable to begin with, you would have eaten it before it's that old....

[c oliver]

I live in Sam's "magic house" but I would NEVER eat a can that was swollen. As you say, botulism can be a silent killer. I'm not stupid.

[mpjmph]

Same here. I'm pretty cavalier when it comes to leftovers and dates on food packages, but I have a very health fear of botulism. When canning foods at home I follow the Ball/Center for Food Preservation guidelines to the letter, and I will not eat foods from swollen cans or cans/jars with a damaged seal.

[EWSflash]

I think one of the primary issue with low-acid vegetables is the possibility of botulism. But i have no idea how prevalent it is in the atmosphere, or whether you're more likely to get contamination with something more common, like e. coli or some kind of staph. Cooked meat i'm not too worried about, as long as it isn't already ground before cooking (grinding/chopping raises the bacterial count considerably due to vastly increased surface area). Poultry I'm a lot more leery about. I might have had some reservations about the curry with the popped-up lid, but maybe not if I'd made it myself and known how long it had been stored and at what temperature, etc.

I'm like you, I don't have hard and fast rules about when to toss, and I think a lot of people throw out a lot of food unnecessarily.For instance- out-of-date yogurt that's still sealed in the single-serving carton. It doesn't go bad for a long time after that if it has live lactobacilli in it.

Good luck and good health- your system seems to work well for you!

[babette feasts]

Doesn't botulism thrive in anaerobic environments, hence the problem with poorly prepared canned goods? Your average tupperware may not make an anaerobic environment, but maybe if it was really full or sealed by a layer of fat it could be a problem.

[Delucacheesemonger]

Anaerobic with low acid. Roasted red peppers are the one thing l keep unwrapped in fridge to prevent any anaerobic activity.

[opinionatedchef]

now THAT is very helpful. they alw go by SOOO fast; i'm alw tossing them.

[masha]

I draw a distinction between how long I keep leftovers of food that I've prepared (or from a restaurant), as opposed to things like sealed containers of yoghurt that have a "sell by" date.

As to the former, I use them up or freeze them within about one week of when they were prepared. I think that the taste gets "off" if they are stored in the fridge longer than that, and I'm not interested in growing biology experiments. Something highly acidic like leftover tomato sauce might stay in the fridge for 10 days, but that's about the upper limit.

Containers of commercial products -- especially dairy products -- are almost always good well past their "sell by" date. For them I just rely on appearance, smell, and/or a small taste. I recently used a pint of sour cream that had a "sell by" date that was more than 6 months ago. It was fine.

[opinionatedchef]

absolutely.

[mariacarmen]

same here with sour cream and cream cheese. i used to throw those things away if they were only a couple weeks old - so wasteful.

[Kajikit]

You only need to toss sour cream if it's growing stuff... or so badly seperated that it's swimming in liquid. What's going to happen to it otherwise? it's already sour!

[babette feasts]

Possible ramifications? Vomiting. Diarrhea. Wishing you were dead. All hopefully temporary.