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meinNYC Apr 15, 2011 02:47 PM

How can Baking Powder be KLP?

So I have wondered about this for years? Isn't this an oxymoron kosher wise? Yet there it is on the shelf and labeled kosher for passover. What is it supposed to be for? Very curious, educate me.
Thanks

  1. t
    thimes Apr 22, 2011 10:15 AM

    While I am no Kosher expert and I don't keep a Kosher kitchen . . . . .

    My understanding of the "unleavened" issue goes back to the biblical story of the Jews leaving Egypt without having time for the bread to rise . . . . if you are reading this you probably know the rest of the story.

    It is my understanding that the reason you can use a "leavener" like baking soda is because the story and tradition is specific to yeast (thus the whole "no time for the bread to rise" part of the story). Since baking soda requires "no time" to work, it isn't in contradiction to this story.

    Any Rabbis on Chowhound to confirm or deny?

    3 Replies
    1. re: thimes
      t
      thimes Apr 22, 2011 10:24 AM

      Gotta love wikipedia. Who knew. . . . .

      Chametz (חמץ, "leavening") is something that is both made from one of five types of grains, and has been combined with water and left to stand raw for longer than eighteen minutes.

      . . . yeast and fermentation are not themselves forbidden as seen for example by wine, which is required, rather than merely permitted.

      The specific definition of chametz varies among religious and ethno-cultural traditions. In Ashkenazic and certain Sephardic applications of Jewish Law, chametz does not include baking soda, baking powder or like products. Although these are leavening agents, they leaven by chemical reaction whereas the prohibition against chametz is understood to apply only to fermentation. Thus, bagels, waffles and pancakes made with baking soda and matzo meal are considered permissible, while bagels made with sourdough and pancakes and waffles made with yeast are prohibited.

      Karaite Jews and many non-Ashkenazic Jewish traditions do not observe a distinction between chemical leavening and leavening by fermentation.

      1. re: thimes
        z
        zsero Apr 22, 2011 12:42 PM

        WP is only as good as the sources it cites, and in this case no source was cited. It's bulldust, and I've removed it. There is no hint of such a thing in any halachic source that I'm aware of.

      2. re: thimes
        z
        zsero Apr 22, 2011 12:46 PM

        It's quite simple: the English word "leavened" and the Hebrew word "chametz" are not synonyms. Chametz need not contain any leavening agent; it can rise by attracting yeast from the air. The only useful definition of chametz is "grain of the five kinds that has come into contact with water, and been left alone for 18 minutes".

      3. z
        zsero Apr 16, 2011 07:07 PM

        Why not? If it doesn't contain any grain products, then it's kosher for pesach. Baking powder usually contains bicarbonate of soda which is made from rocks, an acid such as tartaric acid which is made from wine, or something similar, and a starch. If that starch is made from potatoes then there's no grain product in the powder, and no reason not to use it on pesach.

        1 Reply
        1. re: zsero
          c
          CloggieGirl Apr 22, 2011 10:03 AM

          I had been contemplating this before pesach. Most of the brands that are fine for the rest of the year use cornstarch. Which is fine for some of us, but sadly not my in-laws. I haven't done much with potato starch but my feeling is that potato starch has a slightly different alkalinity (as well as texture) from corn starch. A small change in pH could reduce the effectiveness of "KLP" baking powder. I wish I'd realized this before I volunteered to make a dish involving a lot of caramelized onions since baking powder cuts the cooking time by about a third.

        2. c
          Chowrin Apr 16, 2011 06:13 PM

          yet peanut butter is not kosher for passover. The rabbis are meshuggeneh.

          Baking powder seems to me to be about the worst idea ever for a passover dish.

          then again, I think passover ought to be celebrated by backpacking...

          1 Reply
          1. re: Chowrin
            z
            zsero Apr 16, 2011 07:10 PM

            Peanuts grow in a pod. Rocks and wine and potatoes don't.

          2. s
            sciencediet Apr 16, 2011 05:11 PM

            I just discovered this a couple of years ago, and I am absolutely baffled. There was a column on Passover baking in the Times by Joan Nathan where she said that baking powder and baking soda were always K for P, and my jaw just dropped--then why are my muffins like little rocks? And can I just add a tsp of baking powder to my passover muffins? (I just haven't gotten around to trying it.)

            2 Replies
            1. re: sciencediet
              a
              AdinaA Apr 16, 2011 06:05 PM

              It always has been. See my explanation above. And Koshergastronome is perfectly correct. Except that he may not have tried the Passover brands. Unless they have been improved, they don't couble act, they hardly act at all. Not unusual for Passover brands. I have found baking soda to work better. Although, as he says, it does not double act.

              1. re: sciencediet
                f
                ferret Apr 22, 2011 10:19 AM

                Those of us who are old enough will remember that at one time it was the only "recommended" toothpaste option for Pesach and we always had a box of Arm & Hammer in the bathroom on Pesach.

              2. a
                AdinaA Apr 15, 2011 03:14 PM

                Because it is not yeast. Yeast creates chametz, Sodium bicarbonate, eggwhites do not, although can both make a cake light. Only yeast "levens".

                I usually bur plain Sodium bicarbonate (paking soda, like Arm & Hammer). Baking powder is merely baking soda diluted with some neutral substance to make it easier to measure. I have found that teh Pesach brands are (like a lot of Pesach brands) inferior products. I gave up on them years ago. You just baking soda in a smaller quantity where it says baking powder.

                2 Replies
                1. re: AdinaA
                  k
                  koshergastronome Apr 15, 2011 04:00 PM

                  Baking powder isn't "merely baking soda diluted with neutral substances to make it easier to measure"...baking soda is like you said sodium bicarbonate which is a basic (as in acid vs base) material, and as such when combine with an acid will produce Carbon Dioxide, which is what leavens (yes, baking soda, and baking powder are considered "leaveners") whatever it is you're baking...however the down side of baking soda is that the second it hits an acid it produces the carbon dioxide, baking powder is baking soda with added ingredients to delay the release of carbon dioxide...basically at a certain temperature it will activate the baking soda in it (some are "double acting" because they work at two different times) so the burst of carbon dioxide happens in the oven, once the batter is semi set, and can hold the Carbon dioxide and actually leaven whatever it is

                  As for why it's kosher for pesach, I have no idea, I'm assuming "no leavened bread" means yeast leavened, but don't know for sure

                  1. re: AdinaA
                    z
                    zsero Apr 16, 2011 07:09 PM

                    Yeast is not chametz. Yeast is a microorganism, and KLP yeast is available, e.g. for wine making. Chametz is the result of fermented grain. Se'or is sourdough, which is highly-fermented grain dough, that has a very high yeast content. But it's the dough that makes it chametz, not the yeast that it contains.

                  2. queenscook Apr 15, 2011 03:08 PM

                    I have no idea about the how, but as for what it's for . . . I have seen one cookie recipe that called for it, but then said it was optional. I made it without and it was just fine.

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