THE BUTCHERS - I'm stunned !!

[Helen]

I have got two vouchers from them, have used one of them a few weeks ago and was very satisfied. I just phoned to order 5 New York strip loin steaks for Saturday and was asked if I had a voucher and when I said "yes" was told to email them and they need three to four days notice, that I wouldn't get them for Saturday.

I sent them an email noting that today is only Wednesday. I wonder what would happen if I just appeared on Saturday morning, would they turn me away!!!

I am really p****d off.,

I take back all I said that was complimentary.

[The Chowhound Team]

If anyone has news of The Butcher's reopening, please start a new thread, as we're going to lock this one now. Thanks!

[ylsf]

I was forwarded a comment from the Organic Council of Canada and thought that those following this thread would be interested in what they had to say on this matter. I confirmed with them that it was okay for me to post their comment on forums I read:
-----------------

Thanks for the story on The Butchers. Organic Council of Ontario issued a complaint to the CFIA’s Canada Organic Office at the request of our membership about the misleading advertising that went on during the web deals. The way the deals were advertised created the impression that the products being sold were all organic. And while the Butchers does buy some certified organic supply, it is virtually impossible that all the meat being sold through these deals is certified organic.
Our sector is also concerned about the damage misleading advertising (including poor education for the web deal companies’ staff people about the kind of product being sold and what kinds of claims can be made about the production of the meat) has on the credibility of the organic sector as a whole (and organic meat in particular). We are aware there is an investigation under way, and we have initiated an Access to Information request with the Federal Government for details on the CFIA/ Canada Organic Office investigation of complaints against this company.
Organics in Canada is regulated by federal legislation that has stringent guidelines about what constitutes “organic”. The regulations are the culmination of 30 years of work by the sector and are the pride of the industry. Our sector is credible, caring and committed. When consumers are left to doubt our integrity as a sector, it undermines our reputation as caring, credible and committed producers. People can learn more about organic at www.organicbiologique.ca and our trade association website www.organiccouncil.ca

Jodi Koberinski
Executive Director
Organic Council of Ontario
www.organiccouncil.ca
5420 Highway 6 North Suite 237
Guelph, ON N1H 6J2

-------

Note: I deleted her phone number and e-mail address from her signature line as I didn't want her to get spammed. You can find her contact info on the website if you wish to follow up on their comments.

[Poorboy]

Has anyone been past the shop lately? Do the renovations look underway?

[ylsf]

According to a post on RFD the store is closed but no renovation activity inside or out. They also still have their Green "Pass" on the window.

[Dave5440]

Any updates on this place?

[taterbrandy]

Still boarded up, and all notices at the space across the street that was going to be a fishmongers have been taken down.

[wontonfm]

They have been providing updates on their twitter feed (@butchersorganic). On their website it says it will reopen on the 17th of August.

[Spelunk]

An update from today's Toronto Star --> http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1016...

[East End Eater]

Its now the end of June 2011. I bought my voucher on Februry 22 from TeamPass. My friend used half of our voucher and I was supposed to use the rest. I went one day after work and the sign said no vouchers except for specific days of the weeks and specific times on those days. Really flexible like 4-6 pm on Thursdays or something like that. Then I thought I would order through their website instead. They said that they were not talking orders until June 23. I checked their website on June 23 and they have a long story about not taking vouchers until they renovate. I am thinking this is a lost deal.

I am also shocked at their attitude. When I did go into the place, the staff was absolutely awful. Rude. I guess that's part of the risk with these vouchers!

[smjneo]

Write to Teampass to see if you can get the half voucher refunded. I got my voucher refunded by teamsave 2 weeks ago.

[East End Eater]

Thanks. Actually I did write after I wrote the post. Hopefully they'll get back to me. Thanks for the feedback.

[ylsf]

Do what you can to get your money back from the voucher company. It is very unlikely that The Butchers will accept vouchers again. On RFD someone posted about their conversation with Marlon and he said they are done with vouchers for good..

[MeMeMe]

More press on this and other voucher debaucles...

http://www.moneyville.ca/blog/post/10...

[ioppoi29]

Now Webpiggy is not offering refunds!!! They give four options, all of which don't suit my taste:
Webpiggy credit - I don't need $200 of webpiggy credit!!!
Webpiggy will order the meat for me???? This is totally absurd! I have to go through a internet deal company to order meat?
Or wait till they re-open??? (When, who knows?)
Or.... I can wait till the coupon expires, then get my money back!!!

Webpiggy has definitely lost a client and I will never purchase a deal from them again. The store, and now webpiggy are changing the details of the offer and not standing up to the original offer. Bad businesses.

[magic]

I think I might have to add Webpiggy to my permanent boycott list. They will join Buytopia.

I wonder why they will refund you.... AFTER the coupon expires and not just now?

[lyndak]

I suspect they will then tell you "I'm sorry your coupon has expired and we don't offer refunds for expired coupons"

what a mess, I think the title "I'm stunned" is very appropriate.

[magic]

Agreed.

[smjneo]

I got my coupon from Teamsave. They give me full refund on my credit without any problem.

[ylsf]

If anyone is still thinking of trying to redeem vouchers (personally wouldn't recommend it) they have a notice on their website that they are CLOSED today because of fridge problems again. And, they won't be open for voucher holders until NEXT Thursday again.

Sounds like some people on RFD are having troubles getting refunds from Buytopia, they are giving them the run around.

[MiniMom]

I initially bought 2 coupons at $115 for approx $300ish in meat and once all the issues started requested a credit from Dealfind.. still waiting over 2 months now. They keep stating "working on it" and that their refund / creidt policy still not in place. Well the call to visa is the next one im making.

[corinaci]

I got my refund from them, about a week ago - it was done by Diana.

[callitasicit]

http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/ind...

Damage control?

[ylsf]

Wow. So basic summary is that they aren't accepting vouchers from customers until further notice (or, until they finish renovations of the store.....)... wow, when are some consumer advocates going to push back for the little guys. Customers want refunds but sounds like most aren't getting them from Buytopia. Looks like the other deal sites have stepped up and done the right thing.

[magic]

Looks like I'm done doing business with Buytopia then.

[Chocolatemama]

If only they had posted this letter sooner, I think they would have had fewer irrate customers. Yes, many voucher holders would still be angry because they couldn`t use their vouchers when they wanted to, but I think many would also be sympathetic to the obvious fact that they made a mistake in how they handled the vouchers. Rather than blaming the customers for causing the supply shortage by redeeming the full amounts on the vouchers, they should have just admitted their mistake and apologized. Although not quite an apology, this letter at least acknowledges mistakes that have been made. Perhaps a little too late, however.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

If they really wanted to try and fix things, they should at the very least extend the expiry dates. This could go a long way towards at least seeming like they're trying to let people redeem. Unfortunately their constant closing makes the situation worst every time they do open for business.

[justsayn]

Sorry but these owners have made it very clear for months that their lowest priority is good customer service.

[DrewStar]

Way too little, way too late.

Damage control definitely. But at this point why bother? How many people who purchased vouchers had a positive experience and want to make repeat visits for the great service and product? I had to jump through hoops to get a refund on two vouchers. Do you really think I want to ever go to The Butchers in the future?

[lyndak]

too little too late.

really they should have apologized after their initial offering when things started to go sideways. continuing to offer specials knowing that they can't meet demand is either greedy or stupid ( I don't think they are stupid BTW)

[The Chowhound Team]

We split a sub-thread about the Post article over to our Food Media and News board, here: http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/7890...

We've asked that people keep this thread focused on their actual experiences, either with The Butchers or with getting refunds on their coupons, but it's clear there's a large audience who want to talk about this. Which makes sense, since it's now really a pretty major news story for the world. We hope that discussion can happen on the new thread, leaving this one to help people navigate the difficulties of redeeming these coupons. Thanks.

[cheesymama]

Just got my refund from Webpiggy. They couldn't have been nicer about it. He (Harold) did offer to have me place an order directly with Webpiggy and guaranteed my delivery in 7-10 days but I really have no desire to do any kind of business with The Butchers given all of the quality and service issues brought up here.

[callitasicit]

Smart move, did he say he would give you a refund or did you actually get your money back?

[ace123]

I got my refund from Webpiggy promptly.

[cheesymama]

I just asked for a credit to my account. I was impressed with their customer service and sill definitely use them again, so a credit is fine with me. Harold said that he had a meeting set up with Marlon for later today to discuss all of the changes they have forced on voucher customers.

[callitasicit]

I was impressed with Harold as well initially but when he promised to send free delivery with my Butcher's order and didn't pull through, my opinion of him dramatically changed.

[callitasicit]

According to a poster on RFD, a Reporter from Global News is also doing a piece on The Butchers tonight at 6pm.

[callitasicit]

Harold granted my refund today and explained the situation to me. Marlon is a piece of work, he assured to Harold that the order would go out on Sunday but it never did. He also gave me a $20 credit towards future Webpiggy purchases. As a result, he will continue to get my business and I am generally happy with the end result. As for Marlon, he deserves everything he gets, his lack of humility astounds me!

[Steady]

Just want to report that I too got a refund from Webpiggy ($40 for $100 worth of meat). I had been holding onto the coupon since Jan waiting for the rush to die down, only to be surprised by the onslaught of new deals and then the complaints on accessing meats for purchase. Harold offered to either 1. put in an order for me personally or 2. issue a refund. I opted for the latter based on feedback here that the former is not successful, and I have no desire to give any business to The Butchers. I feel bad for Harold who has to offer lots of refunds, but he is keeping his word, and I will purchase coupons from WebPiggy again.

[asianbettycrocker]

Get that refund if you can!

I've always been wary of meat marinated by anyone other than the consumer - it's a likely way to hide unsavoury cuts of meat on the verge of its expiry date - and this place has only sealed that theory. Bought some kebobs and a steak with the remainder of my coupon. The pork kebobs were not very exciting, the lamb kebobs were fatty and chewy. Worst of all was the steak. It looked fine, but soon as I cut into it it was obvious it was subpar. I've had stewing beef more tender! Any other butcher would be embarrassed to be selling such tough meat.

With the constant changes to hours, new "rules" and continuosly declining service and quality,

I am relieved to be done with this place!

[petek]

Agree asianbetty: Never purchase pre marinated meat/fish/poultry unless you absolutely trust your butcher or fish monger.It's the oldest trick in the book.....

[jayt90]

Well, who do you trust? In my neighborhood, it is Diana's, and Costco to not do any doctoring. Highland Farms may also be good guys, but seafood is not their forte.

-----
Highland Farms
850 Ellesmere Rd, Toronto, ON M1P, CA

Highland Farms
3300 Rutherford Rd, Vaughan, ON L4K 5Z2, CA

[petek]

In the immortal words of Tony Montana "who do I trust?..me that's who".I cook for a living,so if I'm gonna marinate something I'll do it myself thanks. Lucky for you, you've found 2 places that you trust.

[Love2Snack]

I bought steak kabobs a few weeks back and they were like old leather. I even tried to tenderize them with a giant metal meat tenderizer and a few of the pieces would not even flatten no matter how hard I wacked them. I bought kabobs there in March and they were totally different.

[ylsf]

CBC'S The Current will be covering this story on Monday, also, I contacted Sean O'Shea at Global Television for a follow-up since he said he bought a voucher on RFD. He said he filmed some work there last week and discussed with both Marlon and unhappy customers. It should be airing early this week.

[callitasicit]

They deserve to be taken to task! Marlon has handled this situation so horribly.

[Spelunk]

Segment is on at 9:30 am so 1 hour into the broadcast.

[ylsf]

The Current report is now available online. Thanks to a poster on RFD for the heads up:
http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audiopla...

[franpelyk]

What a shame! What was once a great local butcher shop with high quality products and great staff, has turned into a zoo! Imagine, the police are called there almost daily...to a butcher shop! what does that tell you about the future of these guys?

To top it off, Marlin has now hooked up with a local idiot to open a fish store across the road. I don't know what happened, but I can tell you that I, along with many loyal local shoppers, have moved on!!

[Love2Snack]

Did anyone go to their 'new hours' yet? and if so what was it like?

Thanks

[Love2Snack]

I LOVE IT

New Voucher Redemption Hours - Effective Thursday June 2nd
Thurs-Fri: 6:30pm-9:30pm

[haggisdragon]

ha ha

[DrewStar]

For some reason I don't recall that stipulation when I purchased the voucher.

[ace123]

I have no problem getting refund from Webpiggy & Dealfind.

[childofthestorm]

Went there this morning at 10am. About ten other people there, and for sure the selection was limited - whole and segmented chickens, NY striploins, flank steak, ground beef, pot roast, pork ribs and loin, etc. I didn't care as I was there for whole chickens and ground beef - both of which I've really enjoyed - and got 3 chickens and about 5 pounds of burger meat with my $40 for $100 coupon. Now I have one coupon left, the $100 for $400 version, and will use that in the next month or two.

Good experience, another one, I guess I'm lucky. I can see what the shop is having to put up with - one guy next to me was trying to buy $400 worth of chicken legs with his coupon, and they were telling him we can't do that much without advance notice, you'll clean us out. I also overheard them saying they had to cap striploins at 4 per person today to get through the day.

[00CP]

I'm interested to know how its the customer's fault that they get low on stock? I've never known any other company to say "sorry you can only buy 'x' amount"... most companies want to sell everything they have to make way for fresher stock.

[childofthestorm]

Yeah I'm just not a believer in "the customer is always right." Philosophical difference with some of the folks in this thread, that's all.

They had a load of chicken legs there but had just opened - this guy cleans them out, they have to deal with people saying "THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY CHICKEN LEGS AT 11 AM!!!" all over the internet. I don't think it's unreasonable to try and balance everyone's needs. Is this dude gonna eat $400 worth of chicken that night? Why not just take $100 worth and come back another time? The deep discounts for that quality of chicken make it worth the extra effort for me.

[pakmode]

How much are chicken legs a lb?
Did he place his order in advance?

As per the voucher-contract, he's entitled to purchase $350 worth of inventory from The Butchers.
Maybe he's having a barbeque. Maybe he wants to freeze them as keepsakes. Who cares.
If he wants an item, it shouldn't be rationed.

[ylsf]

If The Butchers didn't want people redeeming more than $50 or $100 worth of stuff at a time they should have put that restriction on the initial voucher. They are now changing the terms of the deal (or trying to) which makes it harder for people to do their shopping once and be done with it. I think they should make every attempt to have suppliers delivery to them 4 or 5 times a day.

[00CP]

If you want to go to your butcher 10 times to achieve what could be done in 1 visit, I'm certainly not going to argue with you. But it just doesn't seem very logical to me.

[foodyDudey]

Definitely not, unless you are retired and gas is free. I can't imagine driving there from Danforth Ave. to find that I can only buy $25 worth of meat, or a few chicken bits. I have stop reading this thread as each time I do, I want to roll up those two coupons and smoke them.

[callitasicit]

Call me crazy but I regret not purchasing that $100 for $400 worth of product. I understand somewhat people's issue with the voucher but the deal still seems like an unbelievable one. I will happily order online and wait in a line for that deal.

[Love2Snack]

You will like this email I got today, please don't delete any more postings chowhound

Hi,
Sorry for the delayed response, we have been extremely busy. Unfortunately email orders for delivery and pick up are booked until June 23rd, therefore we are no longer taking orders until after this date. If you are able to come into the store to select your desired items this can be done at any time. We are open Tuesday to Friday 8am to 8pm to voucher customers. Please resubmit this order after this date, and an email will be sent to you to confirm when your order will be ready.
I am very sorry for the inconvenience.
The Butchers

[toboggan3]

And the hits keep on coming...June 23rd huh?

After a number of attempts at contacting dealgetters (apparently their online mail form was not working for weeks?!), I eventually received a refund cheque for the 2 vouchers I purchased. This entire experience has made me very wary of the vouchers I buy. I think it over twice and maybe three times before clicking.

[haggisdragon]

If you're over the age of 65 or have a preexisting medical condition, it was probably a bad idea to buy one of these coupons.

[pakmode]

Haha, too funny.
I can see MedicAlert having a new commercial with an old lady on the ground yelling"I've boughten and I can't get up."

[foodyDudey]

You've got to be kidding! April Fool's day was 6 weeks ago... So did they say they were extending the expiry date by 6 weeks also?

What a bunch of losers. It's time for me to pay this store a visit and talk to the head "butcher"

[callitasicit]

So, I have been rather fair regarding my comments on The Butchers. I wanted to be objective because I hadn't had a negative experience yet. I also thought the deals they were offering were quite remarkable. I had no problem placing my order at the end of April and them replying that it would take closer to four weeks to have it ready. However, I was supposed to pick up my order yesterday ($50 for $150) and it is a good thing I called in advance or I would have wasted a trip downtown! When I called, they said they had no record of my order and they assured me they would call me back. I had to call several times during the day many times not getting through mind you! When I did, they said they would call me back. They never did and it is now Saturday afternoon. Pathetic customer service on their part. The funny thing is, I don't think I would have been that upset if my order wasn't ready; it is more that they couldn't give me a straight answer on when my order could or would be ready. The thing that pissed me off most is that they are making me chase them down, that shouldn't be the case!! One more thing of note, they don't take messages on their voice mail and now neglect to answer any of my emails.

[Love2Snack]

Looks like they closed the store according to their website for now

Also it seems like they are looking for a way out of the vouchers. "Please note if abuse on our staff continues we will not honor vouchers"

I'd get a refund asap.

"Due to the overwhelming success of our vouchers we have encountered numerous issues in our store with the behaviour of voucher customers. Our staff have been verbally and physically abused. We have met with police to ensure this behaviour does not continue. Because of this we will have police presence at the store beginning next week. We are also in the process of installing surveillance cameras for the security of our staff. Please note if abuse on our staff continues we will not honor vouchers. We are doing our best to satisfy everyone however we can't guarantee stock and abusing our staff will not resolve the issue. We ask for your patience during this time.

Our store will be closed until Friday May 27th to address these issues.

New Hours Effective May 27th
Tues-Sat: 6:30pm-9:30pm

Voucher Coupons will not be honored at any other time. NO EXCEPTIONS"

Scary

[sbug206]

Maybe if they honored the coupons as sold they wouldn't have angry customers.

[callitasicit]

That is so pathetic! I am still waiting for my order, I am so tempted to just cancel my voucher. They won't give you a straight answer over there. My patience is running thin, no word that they were going to be closed until May 27th and I spoke to someone personally today!

[Chocolatemama]

They better be paying for this police presence they speak of. I don't think taxpayers should be footing the bill for a situation they put upon themselves.

[Snarf]

A couple of times I've walked in in the last few weeks during the 'coupon holder' hours. For the most part, I've seen relatively well-behaved people, but on several occasions, I've seen people on the customer end who are arrogant, abusive, and also exceedingly naive. If the counter staff says they don't have something, the wackjobs seem to become almost rapturistically evangelical about wanting to preach the evils, rather than being mindful that there are other people lined up, and that the store is trying to be as reasonable to everyone lining up as possible. Maybe the analogy to think of is lining up for a soon to be sold out show. If the person ahead of you asks for all remaining available seats, how are you going to feel?

They should institute a "no soup for you" policy to the wanksters who are walking in with an axe to grind.

[callitasicit]

I don't condone abusive behaviour by any means but I would be upset too if I was told to pick up an order on a certain day and then be notified they don't have the order ready or in stock. I am so glad that I didn't drive all the way from Markham just to find out that they didn't even have record of my order.

The owner of the store shouldn't have bitten off more than he could chew. Negligence is not an excuse. I have learned one thing from this whole experience, things that look too good to be true usually are;)

[Pincus]

This sounds like it will be the hours for every customer? I wonder how long they're going to run that way.

[ylsf]

Those hours are for voucher holders (and I guess "normal" customers can go too). They are trying to keep voucher holders separate from "normal" customers so that they can still provide stock of meat to "normal" customers during the day. However, by doing it this way they are really segregating the two which could allow for additional segregation in terms of meat provided/supply/etc

[callitasicit]

It's almost impossible to get a hold of anyone from their online order number. It is just busy all the time! Pointless leaving a message on their main line because no one has the courtesy to return your phone call. Fat chance I will ever support their business ever again!

[callitasicit]

I sent Webpiggy an email requesting to refund my voucher. I hope they respect my wishes.

[callitasicit]

Credit to Webpiggy for immediately replying to my email. Harold Moore has offered to take over the order for me and act as the middle man, he is also going to have the items delivered to my door for free. Of course, he doesn't want an unhappy customer and lose some of the proceeds to the voucher. Forgive my cynicism but let's just see how this unfolds first;)

[callitasicit]

I am supposed to get my order delivered tomorrow unfortunately I have no idea when it will be arriving on Sunday. I will report back to inform whether Webpiggy kept true to their promise. Most importantly, did they follow my order form and send the correct items I requested from The Butchers last month.

[callitasicit]

Looks more and more like the delivery will not materialize, should have seen this coming. Almost 7 p.m. and not even a call from the driver or a response from Webpiggy. If I don't get my order today, I will demand a refund from the company and never do business with them again. As for the Butchers, I don't think you need to ask if I will ever give them my business again.

[callitasicit]

Anyone else promised a free delivery today from Webpiggy? If so, did they actually come through?

[callitasicit]

The delivery person never showed up and as a result I wasted my entire Sunday waiting for him/her to come. I will no longer do business with The Butchers or Webpiggy ever again! I have demanded a refund immediately.

[furhead]

Anyone have luck getting a refund from Buytopia? I haven't heard back from them and it's been more than a week.

[ylsf]

If they have a phone number on their site I suggest calling them. I find I get better results by calling vs. e-mailing most of the time with these deal sites.

[Love2Snack]

They have not replied back to me either. Seems the butcher is staying closed until next week also.

"Please note we have changed our store hours. These hours are effective beginning Tuesday May 31st. Until this time we will NOT be honouring vouchers. Please read below to understand why we are unable to honour vouchers this week."
New Hours Effective Tuesday May 31st
Tues-Sat: 6:30pm-9:30pm

Voucher Coupons will not be honored at any other time. NO EXCEPTIONS

[callitasicit]

Where did you get your vouchers from?

[Snarf]

It might be more instructive to those reading here for objectve information for you to have included the balance of the website message, which is that the delay in reopening for vouchers is so that they can have security in place to ensure that people behave. Not much different from boxing day sales, except they are trying to find a way to accomodate people without imposing time limits.

[foodyDudey]

What a crock of crap. So they need security for coupon holders but not the regular customers. This latest weirdness has made me decide to just ask for a refund, and no more coupon deals for me. I was one of the first to say this sounded to good to be true, but bought in anyway. Now it's time to try and get a refund on these worthless coupons.

I bought the coupons based on the terms and conditions advertised at the time, and they were nowhere near when I am seeing mentioned now. The owner has made it nearly impossible for me to redeem these coupons. I hope someone initiates some class action against him. He does not deserve to run that store if he treats the people who bought the discounted coupons the way he does.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

I wouldn't let a bad apple like The Butcher's sway me from coupon deals in general. I've never had troubles with other deals and I've bought more than a few. Just be careful when the vendor is doing things like offer deal after deal after deal with each one getting worse and worse for the vendor. I bought one deal from the Butchers but it was a early one and I didn't realize that this was going to happen. You also have to watch for who the group deal is with...because they seem to be popping up every day.

[Yongeman]

I agree that you have legitimate complaints, foodyDudey, but there were never problems with the regular customers. It's only after they sold massive amounts of coupons (their fault) that they discovered that there were unforseen consequences to deal with--like servicing all of these deal-seekers. Naturally, some people got irate and worse, I guess. Now there needs to be a safety measure to deal with them.

[smjneo]

Oh no! It closes again, I never get to use my voucher!

"Our store will be closed to voucher holders until Thursday June 2nd to address these issues."

[furhead]

I got the refund from buytopia. Very relieved.

[chalenegirl]

whoa.

[Love2Snack]

I have from dealfind and webpiggy

[callitasicit]

I am pretty sure I wrote this already but why not contact both of them and see what they can do to help you?

[smjneo]

did anyone of them willing to refund you?

[ylsf]

Kate is on CFRB right now talking about this. She posts as Kator on RFD.

1010am

EDIT: it is over now but I am glad this story is getting some mainstream attention now.
If I find a link to a recording I will post it.

[00CP]

Here's the link... well done Kate!

http://www.newstalk1010.com/Episodes....

[foodyDudey]

Is that the correct link? It's not mentioned in the description of the April 26 podcast.

[callitasicit]

I am planning to use my voucher. Are any of the prepared foods worth purchasing?

[ace123]

In my last 3 visits, there's no prepared food available for purchase.

[callitasicit]

I spoke to the rep via email and she said that prepared food was part of my webpiggy promotion (50 for 150) She said to order it online. Any suggestions?

[ace123]

I went there on weekdays only.
Selections have been quite limited.
There's chicken and ground beef most of the time. Steak? One time there's only blade steak, one time no steak; one time both ribeye & striploin.
For people making a special trip there, I can understand how frustrated it'll be.
I'll order via email and see if I can get what I want.

[Spelunk]

From today's Star

Roseman: Why you might be wary of Internet coupons

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/9797...

[hildegard]

My 2 cents: I purchased meat at the Butchers earlier this week with part of my dealfind voucher. The staff were brisk, but pleasant. The selection was not great, but it is a smaller store- next time I purchase meat I will call ahead so I know it will be available.
The lamb and beef purchased are delicious.

Great value, good product- I'll be happy to come back.

[Lazar]

Did anyone read this article from the Globe & Mail?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/n...

Sorry if this was posted already.

[oceanpark]

i finally got a hold of eddie at acadian beef, who is one of the suppliers of the butcher, as featured

eddie told me:
- he does NOT supply organic meat to the butcher
- he instead sells 'naturally raised' which he told me means 'no antibiotics and they eat corn' BUT are still 'intensively farmed' (read factory farmed)
- he himself buys meat from suppliers and cannot say exactly where or which farms the meat comes from.

so there you go. the butchers advertises and charges for 100% certified organic meat from a local farmer, but you're instead you're getting factory farmed meat from who knows where, just like you would at the grocery store, except it doesnt have antibiotics and gets to eat corn.

[Yongeman]

Read the awning sign: http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/

[oceanpark]

read this ad: http://www.k4t3.org/wp-content/upload...

it advertises that the butchers is "100% certified organic." 100% is all. not some. all.

[Yongeman]

Someone didn't do their homework, I guess.
That ad also states: "The Butchers - Organically & Naturally Raised Meats". It's just above your quote in the ad.

[chrispi]

from TheButchers website April 15 http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/ind...

** Due to an influx of vouchers we have decided to close the store from 11:30am-1pm weekdays to clean and restock the store. After discussions with Toronto Health we have taken precautionary measures to ensure we continue to keep up our standards around cleanliness of the store.

[ylsf]

Wow, so, basically they are removing even another chance for people to come and shop (during their lunch hours!).

And, to answer Oceanpark, I am still waiting for a cheque from Dealgetters. Suppose to have been mailed out last week, and then when I followed up this week was told it was mailed out Monday. We will see if I get it but based on normal delivery times I should have received it already. Giving them until Monday.

[DrewStar]

What is the secret to getting a response from DealGetters? I just emailed them for the 3rd time. Zero response so far, and I have given them weeks to do so. They are probably getting a lot of refund requests, and I'm willing to cut people some slack, but this is ridiculous. If you do get a refund please post.

[oceanpark]

i've been getting responses from <[e-mail]> who assures me that everyone is getting refunds. try him

[oceanpark]

is there anyone who still hasn't received a refund but wants one?

[farmers]

Me. I'm trying to get one from Deal Getters and Dealticker. No word yet even after a call to Dealticker.

[MeMeMe]

Another independent butcher speaks out on the deal...

http://www.thehealthybutcher.com/live...

[downtownfoodie]

what an incredibly smart, well thought out, reasoned response to a difficult situation for them. many (maybe most) graduates of my business school could not have prepared a clearer answer.

i'm also impressed that they didn't malign their competitor...which would have been far too easy to do...just explained their position

[sbug206]

Well it's pretty obvious without stating it who they're targetting in that article.

[fluke17]

I have to agree with downtownfoodie that the analysis of the situation by the healthy butcher is incredibly clear. The unfortunate thing is that most people intuitively realize that there is a problem, but then greed gets the better of them.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

Although the information is generally correct. If you increase volume by two however, you don't have to pay double rent, double electricity etc. So if the pure cost of meat is $10 and you net after paying the group buying site $15 you're still generating $5 towards your overhead. I have no idea what their cost structure is so it's somewhat hard to comment on profitability of the deal. Added to this, there may be a __% of coupons not redeemed after the expiry which turns into pure profit.

As well, the owners may have determined this is a cheaper way to generate cash upfront for their fish store vs finding a partner or using the bank.

[poshnoshtoronto]

Thank you for posting the link to the Healthy Butcher. I got my email from them this afternoon. Having had a business of my own, in my life before kids, I completely understand the whole gross margin and volumes thing. I know, as a small business owner (former) that if you're selling things at a loss, then increasing the volume is only going to make things worse. So I'd like to add more to your earlier statement, the additional factors when dealing with high volumes. You see, no matter if you double, triple, or quadruple volumes, the gross margin is not affected - high volume just makes the loss bigger. The reason for a higher loss is that these deals are below the raw cost of the product. (according to the article and another place I visited at the start of all this) So every time you sell more, you lose more. While some indirect costs (like rent) are not affected, there are others that would go up, like increased wages and space, delivery vehicles and drivers, to handle, double, triple, etc volumes. When the numbers are crunched, these guys have got to be losing money or making comprimises. It is seductive to get your cash up front from the coupon deal sites, but this, even with some people not redeeming coupons, still doesn't add up...

-----
The Healthy Butcher
565 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M5V, CA

[Snarf]

The Healthy Butcher article is well-presented junk science, which asks you to believe that they only have a 35% margin. If you want to see what the margins look like, deal directly with some of the organic farmers. Some of the beef you will buy at the highest prices in the city at Olliffe can be had directly from their producers, who will deliver to your door for a third of what the retailer sells at .And they must have some margin.

Then there's the unproven assumption blindly made by many here that the revenues would be evenly split between the coupon company and the merchant. Anyone creating the traffic that the Butchers are would clearly be able to drive whatever terms would work for them.

The longer term implication, which probably unnerves writer of the article and other competitors, is that the Butchers are now yanking a large chunk of the pie away, which means a significant change in the control of the supply chain.

Nice to see someone taking a swack at what has been a closely held market where the shopkeepers have been controlling the pricing.

-----
The Healthy Butcher
565 Queen St W, Toronto, ON M5V, CA

Olliffe
1097 Yonge St, Toronto, ON M4W, CA

[aser]

He's not going to spill the beans on his whole operation. He states some good points but yes, he's not going to tell you the markup of HB's meat can be 3x what he pays the farmers. Make no mistake, HB charges more than other stores for the same product, consistently. Fenwood farms chicken being a great example, as it's available in various stores around the city.

They have a place in the city, but alas a bit too expensive for me. Great pork though, cannot deny that.

[pakmode]

Good read. Thanks for the link.

[pakmode]

This saga has gone on long enough.

Future sympathy for the innocents caught holding the bag.

[foodyDudey]

The more I see here, the more I wonder if I'll ever be able to cash in the two coupons I bought.

Let's see: order via email 5 days ahead of time... so I can get some meat for the weekend of April 23 if I email now. But they will probably respond in 5 days to say that is Easter weekend and they have already sold out... If not, I'll be able to get around 1.5 lbs of some meat that may or may not be organic, but will taste great if they actually come through, for my $150 coupon.

[ginkonut]

This just in from Dealticker:

Dear DealTicker Customers:

It has come to our attention that The Butchers are turning away customers and refusing to honour vouchers purchased through our site.

This action has been taken unilaterally by The Butchers without consultation with or prior warning to DealTicker.

As a result of this conduct, we are obliged to discontinue this deal. We are currently in consultations with our legal team and are considering all legal remedies available against The Butchers.

To all who purchased this offering, DealTicker has only taken an authorization and no charges have been processed on to any credit cards. As such, all authorizations will be cancelled and no charges will appear for these transactions.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience the actions of The Butchers may have caused.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Yours very truly,

[magic]

If DealTicker entered into their agreement with The Butchers after all the negative buzz surrounding these idiots then DealTicker got what they deserved. What did they think would happen, my God.

If their agreement to offer The Butchers deal was made before all this craziness was public then I do feel for them. Barely.

In any case, I wish any legal action against The Butchers well. Good.

[ylsf]

They are being featured yet again on another deal site. Dealticker.ca

same $99 for $400 deal

[ylsf]

BTW, there seems to be some legal issues surrounding the sale on dealticker.ca .. So, if anyone actually still wants this deal, it seems like the buytopia.ca one has been extended until Saturday and that might be the safer bet. Of course, I don't endorse or promote buying one, but, just in case someone decides to buy one, on the Butcher site there is a message saying that the dealticker.ca one isn't valid. And on the dealticker.ca site they say they have signed contracts and are standing by their offer.

[MeMeMe]

This made me laugh - from dealradar.com....the two deals on top of each other

$99 for $400 Worth of Organically and Naturally Raised Meats and Seafood from The Butchers - LAST DEAL FROM THE BUTCHERS
Buytopia

$99 for $400 worth of Organic and Naturally Raised Meats and More from The Butchers (includes a $50 credit to use at soon to be launched Marlon's Fish store) ($400 Value)
DealTicker

[ylsf]

So that this place isn't confused with other places of the same name I am posting the address here:

The Butchers
2636 Yonge Street
Toronto M4P 2J5
Ontario

BTW, they are on yet ANOTHER deal site today. I will not advertise it here because it looks like a post was already deleted about it (you can find it in the search cache).

[poshnoshtoronto]

I had one of the earlier coupons from Webpiggy and when I went into the store to buy stuff, their meat display was messy and empty. They had NO prepared foods. Their freezer was empty except for a couple of frozen packs of sliced salmon and their fridge had the curtain closed but was full of products. When I asked if I could open the curtain, the person behind the counter said the fridge was broken. So I'm left wondering... what exactly do I WANT to buy here? Why would they leave perishable items in a broken fridge?!! The meat looked dodgy and the place looked unclean... When I mentioned that their website talked about Beretta organic products, I asked about buying Beretta hotdogs. I was told they no longer carried Beretta products and that they bring in organic meat then ship it to a Mennonite farm to make the hot dogs for them. Where's the certification in that? Where's the transparency? In talking with other butcher shops in the area, and actually speaking with a former supplier of theirs who happened to be delivering at another shop, the butchers have a bad reputation amongst the organic and natural crowd. As a result, I'd definitely want to see proof of the source. I definitely don't trust that the meat is either natural or organic! I was lucky enough to get my refund from WebPiggy and so I now shop at several stores and markets to get my food. I feel like this is a cash grab from a business that is floundering. I suppose all these coupons paid for their new fish shop... I must admit with all the bad press and discontent from people who've been burned by the changing terms and unavailability of limited and dodgy looking product, that WebPiggy would repeat this is surprising and somewhat disappointing.

[food face]

From what I understand, most mennonite meat is NOT organic but IS naturally raised.

[00CP]

Well if it wasn't enough of a s**t show already...

From Webpiggy:

Toronto's Daily Deal: $100 for $400 worth of organic and naturally raised meat from The Butchers, inclusive of a $50 credit to the opening of Marlin's Fish Shop. Don't miss The Butchers 10th Anniversary, Deal of the Century!

I can't believe they'd start selling deals again after the issues they've faced with the previous ones.... unbelievable. Comes off, to me, as being greedy

[wontonfm]

WOW! Now that's just pure craziness. But according to the Star article the owner thinks the deals have been a success and that they've had some hiccups along the way. I was lucky that Dealfind quickly (in like 3 minutes) refunded my purchase. Although The Butchers is a 10 minute walk from my place I'll never shop there and likely not shop at their new fish store either. Good luck to them.

WON
http://whatsonmyplate.net

[foodyDudey]

This amazing deal really deserves it's own separate thread so everyone can see it easily. This thread is getting quite tired and I'm sure many don't even read what is happening... So I am going to make a new post for the new deal!

[oceanpark]

there is a very mysterious note on their website now:

"We have been asked by many people why we continue to do these voucher deals. We agreed to do a specific # of deals and signed contracts so we are under contractual obligation. Once these contracts have been fulfilled we will no longer take part in these vouchers deals." (http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/ind...)

[ylsf]

THe Butchers has updated their "limits" again and revised it to say "This does not apply to Dealfind vouchers" for the weekend limitations. And they now also say they will respond in 5 business days for orders.

[The Chowhound Team]

Folks, this thread has repeatedly headed down the road of rumour-mongering, speculation and piling on. If you have an actual experience using a coupon at The Butchers, good or bad, please go ahead and report it. If you haven't bought a coupon or tried to use one there, we'd ask that you please not jump into this conversation -- there's a lot of speculation happening from people who haven't even used the coupons and it's not helping people find real, accurate information.

[Chocolatemama]

After reading about the new conditions that the Butchers has added, I reqested a refund from Teamsave. THEY CREDITED MY CREDIT CARD WITHIN 5 MINUTES OF MY SENDING OUT MY EMAIL REQUEST!!! Considering that some of the other deal sites out there have been beating around the bush regarding the refunds, I thought Teamsave deserved a shout out! I will definitely buy from them again!

[ylsf]

Hmm.. I thought I made a post but maybe it didn't submit. I will keep this brief in case it was moderated..

But, basically, the Butchers is now saying they will not accept voucher on the weekend and you can only use your voucher Tuesday to Friday. You can see this posted on their website. I am VERY disappointed as this situation seems to be getting worse and worse.

[magic]

Whoa. Changing the terms of the voucher agreement without any sort of consent?

Is that even legally allowed??!

[wontonfm]

That's the final straw! I was fine to email my order in advance or pop in on a Saturday and buy whatever is available but having to purchase from Tuesday to Friday? That is absolutely unacceptable. I've been pretty patient with this situation but this is officially ridiculous.

WON
http://whatsonmyplate.net

[aser]

Now that is truly ridiculous, they will retract this after the horrendous backslash they'll receive in the following days. No way this will stick.

What are they thinking? Do they not foresee the ill will this will generate?

[00CP]

Just in from Dealgetters:

March 31, 2011
Greetings!

We have received a few complaints from our customers who bought deal from the Butchers about the service and prices inconsistancy. As many of you know that this merchant has sold the vouchers beyond his capacity without caluculating the consequences and now he is unable to meet the requirements. One nice thing we want you all to know is that we have only heard nothing but compliments about their quality of meat.

We have discussed the situation with the merchant and able to get the standard price list for all our customers and a plan to serve better. Now he is accepting online orders and assuring the free home delivery with 3-4 business days if you are in Toronto.

Business Hours- Tuesday-Saturday 10am-6pm and on Sunday 11am - 5pm

Butcher's delivery request form

Considering the different scenarios we advise you to plan redeeming your vouchers and send us your feedback to [e-mail]

Will try to take more precautions in choosing the merchants
Thank you for using DealGetters
Sincerely,

Vijay Karumachi
Co-Founder
DealGetters

Included with this was a copy of their current price list (which I might add are the more expensive amounts compared to their normal prices before this voucher debacle began)

-----
Vijay's
380 Weber St W, Kitchener, ON N2H4B3, CA

[ylsf]

I got the same e-mail from Deal Getters. Although I had a good experience at The Butchers (except for the prices, but, I knew they would be high going into it), I will not be buying anymore more group deals from Deal Getters because of the way they are handling this. Places like Wagjah and Groupon go out of their way to make the group buy experience hassle free.... No so much with Deal Getters.

[Pigurd]

i noticed webpiggy changed their refund policy to refund you piggy credits instead of actual money if you are unsatisfied... wonder if that is because of the butchers...

[LUV_TO_EAT]

Yep. Got same email from Dealgetters. Probably won't be buying from them anymore. Not sure why they want to go this route. Just bad business sense.

[oceanpark]

i got a full refund for 7 vouchers (including a used one) from webpiggy cuz i was so unhappy with the service and the product. i'm really impressed with them - i was worried id be stuck with a bunch of coupons id be scared to use! i bet the change is cuz of the butchers.

[foodyDudey]

That's great that you got a refund, but I bet there are people here who would have paid you a premium to buy your vouchers.

[magic]

Is this an overall policy or just for this ridiculous Butchers voucher?

But at least it's better than the way Dealgetters is handling this mess. What a joke.

[Pigurd]

it is in the FAQ... it used to say something else cause i remeber thinking i could safely refund the butchers coupon if something was wrong.. now it is just says credit... wonder if they are allowed to do that.. i guess they never specifally said refund of cash, now they specifically mention credits:

from site:
What if I want a refund?Webpiggy handles refunds on a case by case basis. All sales are considered final once the payment has been processed at the end of each deal. If you are not satisfied with a service or product you have purchased from a participating merchant we will provide you with a full refund for 30 days after your purchase. After 30 days we will give you a Webpiggy credit for the full amount.

What if the business I buy a voucher from goes out of business?We'll give you a Webpiggy credit of equal value.

[magic]

I think in cases like this you should get a straight-up refund.

Credit is ok, I guess, as long as there is no expiry date on its use.

But a refund would still be best.

[magic]

Thank God I did not buy through Dealgetters.

Kijiji/Teamsave handled my Butchers refund beautifully.

[MeMeMe]

We got cheque in the mail from DealGetters today. I think they are a smaller operation but they did come through with a refund.

[magic]

Well that's good. But did they let you know it was coming? It seems people here are waiting and waiting and waiting with no response. Which I think it totally and utterly unacceptable.

[DrewStar]

I've emailed dealgetters a couple of times with no response. It's been 3 weeks now. I will not use dealgetters again.

[MeMeMe]

Yes - we knew the cheque was coming. It was a handwritten cheque. I think in many ways their problems are similar to the Butchers. They aren't equipped to deal with a large volume of complaints/ refunds.

[magic]

Hopefully they are suffering more from disorganization than indifference. At least disorganization is something that is more easily correctible. Hopefully Dealgetters (and all these group buying sites) will learn from this experience.

[millygirl]

Interesting article on this in today's Toronto Star Business section.

[torontofoodiegirl]

Yes, the proprietors seem to be of the view that the whole thing was a great success (with, admittedly, some kinks to iron out):

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/9679...

[asianbettycrocker]

Bought coupon thru Dealfind. Went in last wk on a Thursday evening. Packed and
minimal selection. Managed to grab 2 NY strip loin valued at $66 and an organic chicken ($32). Considering the coupon allowed us to purchase $150 worth for only $55 (give or take) it was a good deal. Made the steak this wknd and one steak was enough forntwo and the chicken is good for four. Having said that, once my coupon runs out, I will not be returning.

And I've learned my lesson; go during a weekday. These retailers only seem to see the immediate benefits of revenue without having given any thought to how they would fill the demand!! It's as though they didn't foresee the success of such a promotion - which makes you wonder what they were thinking in running it in the first place!

[Pincus]

"There’s a lot of good, there’s a lot of bad."

Yup. I wonder where the customers think they sit in that value matrix?

[Yongeman]

Interesting point, Pincus. It depends upon your expectations and situation. Personally, I'm more than happy with the value of the 3 different deal purchases that I made, ranging from 50% to 65% savings. Why? I was an existing client of the store, who was willing to pay full-price for their products. I'm willing and able to put up with the inconvenience of shopping off-hours, in order to avoid line-ups and product shortages. Furthermore, when I have arrived at peak times, the servers have been more than willing to accommodate my needs (for example, grinding fresh beef for me if at all possible).
There's no doubt that The Butcher's 'bit off more than they could chew' and should have limited the sales. They are trying to accommodate clients as well as they can, but obviously can't please everyone. I feel the pain of those who bought the deals early, without realizing how popular they'd be. There was a huge rush to redeem in the first few weeks, but after all, the deal is good for a year from the purchase date. There's plenty of time to use the coupons when the initial rush dies down. I really like staff and ownership of this place.
I think I can feel the flames already (and I don't mean from my BBQ).

[sandflies]

I also bought two vouchers, and have been to the Butchers twice now. The first time I went, the only thing in the store was some chicken and a lamb shoulder - I took the lamb (which at less than 3 pounds came out to more than $40 and was to my mind very fatty. Tasted good though).

Went in two days ago and found there was nothing other than chicken (3.30pm on a Tuesday). So I ordered a beef tenderloin roast. My husband went to pick it up, and nearly had a heart attack when he found that 2.5 pounds of beef tenderloin came out to $93.66. Don't get me wrong - it was absolutely delicious, but at more than $40 a pound, that's pretty steep.

[foodyDudey]

I've never seen beef tenderloin for that price, I guess that's the stuff that was raised on 3 week old Kentucky bluegrass!

[00CP]

The term gouging can't even apply to 2.5 pounds for $93.66! Thats insane

[Cat123]

I have definitely paid that much at Oliffes and was equally scandalized there.

[ylsf]

I used one of my vouchers today. They had a lot more product than I expected but it was around 1pm on a weekday. I think the reason why they are restricting the "1 coupon per visit" thing is to prevent people from clearing out the inventory. I actually had my parents with me and had planned to "gift" one voucher to them to use, but, they said since my name was on it, they couldn't use it at the same time, but, they could come back and use it at another date. I didn't bother arguing as my voucher wasn't "clear" on that issue vs. some others may have been explicit (mine was from Dealgetters).

So, overall, I was happy to see they resolved some issues. The product is clearly priced, they had a decent selection, the lamb looked good but just picked up some NY Steaks and bacon (3 new york steaks and a bit of bacon for $100, not cheap that is for sure!). Going to cook it up tonight, I will report back. I have one other voucher, I will keep it for future use. The experience was pretty good considering all of the negative feedback. The lady that helped me seemed pleasant overall.

[Pigurd]

did they have any of those pies that they said were available on the product list?

[ylsf]

Hmm.... I didn't see them but I guess they would have been in the side freezer (in behind where people stand to look at the counter). I didn't really look at anything that wasn't in the counter.

I had the steaks tonight, while they were good, I definitely wouldn't buy them again at $29.99/ lb! Haven't tried the bacon yet.

[pinkprimp]

i've asked for them twice. the first time, they had no idea what i was talking about and the second time, they told me over the phone that they were making them for the weekend but when i went in store, they apparently had none. I would call ahead to reserve one just for certainty.

[00CP]

The latest I've heard (and read on their website) is that they are not allowing people to combine coupons. This is another of their made-up-on-the-spot policies akin to "prepared foods are not included" on voucher buys.

http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/ind...

"Also please note as detailed in the coupon offer, we only accept 1 coupon at a time. This was clearly noted when purchasing the vouchers, so we ask you to please not ask us to change this policy. We are unable to accomodate more than 1 voucher at a time."

Doesn't say anything of the sort on my vouchers..... seems like they really have no shame in screwing their customers

[foodyDudey]

It also does not mention that only one coupon can be redeemed at a time on the original webpiggy offer:

https://webpiggy.com/deals/side_deal/486

Or maybe it's on the reverse side of the page? :-

)

The offer also mentions other products that are available such as prepared foods, produce, and "more". It doesn't say you can't use the coupon to buy those items.

[oceanpark]

that's right! AND, the headline clearly states that it's for everything they sell, not just meat (which they've been refusing to honour as well): "$50 for $150 worth of the highest quality organic and naturally raised meat, hot prepared foods, organic produce and more from The Butchers."

i have the original email, so i took a screenshot if anyone wants to print it out and show them.

[Chocolatemama]

My Teamsave voucher clearly states 1 voucher per visit. Also, I can't say this is true for ALL the deal sites, but many of them have a list of general conditions that apply to all their vouchers and a limit of 1 per visit is usually one of those conditions, as are "taxes, gratuities and alcohol not included" or "whole balance of voucher must be used at one time". Sometimes businesses will choose to allow for some of the above and this would be noted in the details of that particular buy.

[TexSquared]

Simple solution, have your SO or other accomplice with you to redeem your 2nd coupon on the same visit...

Even if they didn't say 1 coupon at a time, that's a generally accepted rule in every situation. With restaurant coupons it's unlikely they'll allow you to redeem a "Buy 1 entree get the second one free" coupon with the "free dessert with entree" one, on the same meal.

The difference here is these aren't coupons in the usual sense, these are essentially gift cards/vouchers. If I had a $100 gift card and a $50 gift card for Best Buy, I can walk into the store and buy $150 worth of goods (including tax) by redeeming both cards. Best Buy's staff won't tell me, sorry, you can only redeem one of the 2 cards....

[Snarf]

I have been reading these posts for several weeks now, and I have to speak up now. In the early days of some of the other threads relating to this shop, it was noted that the uptake was enormous for the coupons. The organic butchering business involves supply chains that don't necessarily have huge and immediate scaleability. My own personal source for pork products (which I am not disclosing) only killls a few pigs a weelk,and are sold out by tuesday every week. For a shop such as the Butchers to completely rescale their requirements to unforseen levels will take some reorganization.

While the ordering in advance process may be inconvenient, it's clearly an effort on the part of the owners to do everything they can. They aren't open Mondays, yet for the past several Mondays, the staff has been in processing orders. Today there was plenty of product in the displays, all priced at similar levels to what I've been paying for the last five years.

The posts seem to be getting progressively more rabid when the owner is clearly tryingt o make every effort. Here's my suggestion.If you don't think it's worth it to you, get a refund. If you want the excellent meat, be patient, or wait a bit. The coupons have a generous time frame. If you are in the camp of where you want to get a refund, try posting here that you might look for a buyer for the coupon.

Many years ago, the Clash complained about corporate greed while playing a highly paid set at a corporate gig. David Lee Roth, in the next set, responded and suggested that everyone cut them some slack "It's hard to evoke social change and break in a new drummer at the same time."

[magic]

While I don't agree with some of your points I must say, I love your analogy. Brilliant!

[MeMeMe]

That's fine and dandy - however, this business didn't think about the fact they are in the business of customer service. Did they not consider the impact of going on every discount coupon site would have on their fulfillment process? We got notice of a refund today and are happy to avoid a bad customer experience.

[TexSquared]

Exactly. And they have yet to 1-acknowledge they screwed up 2-remove the source of the problem. Selling ANOTHER 11,000 DEALS last week when they can't even handle the tens of thousands of deals they've already sold in the last 6 months? I shook my head in disbelief when I read that. They're either totally clueless, or plan to close up shop, take the money and skip out of town. Like Jetsgo did - they kept selling airline tickets right up to when they shut down.

Maybe the fine print in those 11,000 deals was "Valid from March 31 2011 at 3:29PM ET. Expires March 31 2011 at 3:30PM ET"

[toboggan3]

My concern also. I contacted dealgetters a few days ago regarding a refund but have yet to hear back from them.

[magic]

They really should be replying to your refund request pretty quickly. If it's been a few days and Dealgetters hasn't replied that's not good.

[foodyDudey]

How can they reply when there are 2000 people asking for refunds ahead of toboggan3?

[Herb]

Maybe they've been swamped with requests for refunds and they don't have the staff to handle them :)

[magic]

The people at Teamsave got back to me within like 1 hour (on a Saturday no less)!

Hey, I'm just saying.

Just keep on top of Dealgetters I guess, as you're both right..... I'm sure they are swamped with requests. Still, keep on top of them toboggan3.

[MeMeMe]

They responded to us very politely and offered to either send a cheque for the original amount or put the money back in our dealgetters account and add another $10. Nice customer service - i'm sure they are swamped.

[magic]

Well that's good.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

Might be a nice gesture of the Butcher if they did something like extend the expiry. or perhaps, offer people additional 10% on their voucher if they wait till use after some time so they can work out logistics.

Any bone is better than none. Still waiting to hear from Dealgetters.

[toboggan3]

I've emailed dealgetters regarding a refund twice now over the past 2 weeks, and have yet to receive any acknowledgment of my emails. Anyone out there receive a refund, or even a response from dealgetters recently?

[LUV_TO_EAT]

Update: Finally got a response from Dealgetters via email. They apologized and asked for one more day to fix this...that was two days ago so I emailed once more. Have a feeling they must have a ton of these. Keep on it.

[magic]

Do they have a contact number? At this stage I would be calling them. You’ve waited far too long. That is unacceptable. Unless other people start singing their praises I will likely not do business with them based on your experience alone.

Call them.

[mikefly]

Snarf, I think you have hit the nail on the head here... They sold $1M (or more!) worth of meat ahead of time, and now, somehow need to distribute. At $50/kg that's 20,000kg. That's a LOT of meat. Just imagine the logistics.

I am not a big proponent of the groupon model - but it's clearly here to stay. And The Butchers are either a cautionary tale, or an example of mad success... or both.

[Yongeman]

I'm obviously a fan of The Butchers. I went in today (Saturday) at about noon. There were 3 others in the store, I got my request from a reasonably full counter, and left within 5 minutes. To those of you who are getting refunds...not necessary, from my point of view. But of course, you have to make your own decision.

[ace123]

I went there last Thursday and picked up rack of lamb, rib steak, chicken & sirloin steak. The counter was quite full with price tag for each item. It was not crowded at 11am. I left in 5 min and did not encounter any problem. The quality's still good. I'll continue to use my coupons.

[Georgia65]

I ordered online and had my order delivered last Wed. it was late because of the snow but I got what I ordered. Have already eaten the beef tenderloin and it was delish!

[Pigurd]

i keep trying to order game meat from them but they keep delaying the order by two weeks.. they seem to have an inconsistent supplier or something... i only bought the vouchers to see if i can find a decent game meat supplier but havent been able to try their product yet.. i should have tried redeeming earlier, probably easier to get a refund then... has anyone got refunds from webpiggy?

[ylsf]

Has anyone tried their delivery service? I recall them mentioning it was free delivery with a certain minimum order. I live outside their zone but just wondering if they have gotten that right or screwed that up too?

[Helen]

I got a reply from the butchers to say I can pick up steaks on Saturday which I did, about 1:30. The place was absolutely packed and people lined up on the street,. I found out (the hard way, eg after waiting for about 10 minutes) that all I had to do was go to the back of the store,

The steaks were terrific, my son put them on the barbeque and they were so tasty.

So, it is obviously a hassle and the way I was initially treated was not good. But the steaks I got made up for all that.

[BuddSugerman]

Hi Helen, in your original post which started this thread you said "I am really p****d off, I take back all I said that was complimentary." Have you reversed out of that position, were the steaks good enough to undo being treated so poorly? The real question is: will you shop there again once your coupons run out?

[Helen]

"The real question is: will you shop there again once your coupons run out?"

NO

[magic]

Lesson to all vendors and group buying services out there: this is a cautionary tale in how NOT to do business.

What a mess.

[BuddSugerman]

I visited The Butchers for a final attempt to purchase some meat, but alas, there was very little on hand. They only had things like ground beef, marinated chicken breast, some pork shoulder, and sausage. Silly me for thinking that a butcher shop might have some steaks :) I did buy a few sausages - the quality has gone down hill over the past few months. The hot Italian sausages used to be great, now not so much.

I have been given a refund for my coupons at Webpiggy, Dealfind, and Teamsave. All were very good about the return, even though I was over 30 days on a few. I just told them that The Butchers was not offering the product as promised - since they literallly make it impossible to buy meat. Webpiggy, Dealfind, and Teamsave all agreed this was not right on The Butchers part. Hats off to them for doing the right thing. I'll use their services again. Goodbye to The Butchers forever.

[foodyDudey]

The surprising thing is today I looked at the Butchers website an realised that the owner used to work at The Big Carrot about 10 years back, I used to see him and talked to him a few times back then. Now he's famous.

[Helen]

I got a reply from them saying I can pick up my five steaks on Saturday. (nice of them !!!)

I will do so - but never, never again.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

If I don't get a satisfactory reply, I might have to "order" via email. I generally like to choose my meat however as I like to see how good the cut is, how thick, marbling, etc.

[Arcadiaseeker]

This is all pretty terrible - you really need to be careful with online coupons I think. On the flip side, it sounds like these guys have been ruined by the whole coupon experience which is also sad - probably had a great marketing idea and it's just overwhelmed them beyond capacity. Hence, a lot of complaints and lost customers (and stressed out staff from the sounds of it). I wonder how many businesses have had this issue with groupon etc.

[Pincus]

Well, they shot themselves in the foot by blasting their offers across multiple coupon providers.

[foodyDudey]

I don't think that was the main problem, anyone would want the widest coverage possible. They shot themselves by offering coupons for products at 33% off regular price and then even more off. I knew right away that you can not offer hundreds or thousands in this case of coupons at $50 for $150 or even 50 for 100. There's no profit at all in that. At least they are well known now, if that is what they wanted.

I'm curious if the meat they are now supplying to the coupon holders is of exactly the same quality as the sell to the people without coupons. Since it comes all boxed up and sight unseen, it will be hard to determine.

[Pincus]

Well, if they have problems fulfilling from one coupon site, I don't know how they thought adding more coupon sites would help them suddenly obtain more product of the quality they built their reputation on.

Of course, there might be a whole "behind the scenes" story of failed suppliers, etc.

[grandgourmand]

"At least they are well known now, if that is what they wanted." Yes, they are infamous now. Kudos to them.

My wife was hellbent on buying these coupons. Nothing in life is free (or THAT discounted, in this case).

I've got to start checking out Ellas.

I know it's a bit of a hike, but Masseli's has great house-made prosciutto. Sausages, not so much.

[foodyDudey]

I'm sure Massellis Supermarket can't be more than 5 or 10 minutes from you?

I've bought really good meat at Ellas and would be curious to know what you think.

[grandgourmand]

It's not far. My loyalties are with Jerry's Supermarket, which is between Greenwood and Coxwell. It was my first butcher in TO. But...Massellis has won me over with the house made prosciutto.

I went to Ellas once looking for lamb shoulder to make sausage. It was expensive for that purpose, so I got some trimmings from Mr. Greek ($20 for 10lb)...I should give Ellas another try, though, if they're dry aging meat.

-----
Jerry's Supermarket
1398 Danforth Ave, Toronto, ON , CA

[Pincus]

I love Masseli's for all my Italian-related food needs!

[LUV_TO_EAT]

This is where the problem really started IMO. When I bought from DealGetters, it wasn't way out of line $40 for $100 (I think it was their second group deal). When they kept coming out for new deals like $50 for $150 I think it was more than a bit crazy. If I had a crystal ball and knew they were going to come out one after another, I wouldn't have bought. I was planning on using this in the spring/summer when I can grill, but as I wait it get's scarier they may not be around.

Lesson learned in one respect is to buy from sites that offer a "Satisfaction Guarantee" of sorts (like Wagjag)....at least I have some leg to stand on from the Group buy site.

Still waiting to hear from Deal Getters re. refund request if possible.

[toboggan3]

Yeah, $40 for a $100 sounded feasible. I'm glad I only purchased 2 of them -- at the time I was feeling greedy and stopped myself from buying even more. When greater "deals" started appearing on a daily basis on different coupon sites the alarm bells started going. Please post if you are able to get a refund from dealgetters, and the steps required to do so. Thanks.

[TexSquared]

Sounds like how Jetsgo went out of business....

[ylsf]

For people requesting refunds, if anyone bought from "dealgetters" and got a refund please post here. This place seems to be going downhill as even people happy the first time around are not enjoying their experience. I imagine things will only get worse as the warmer weather is hear and people are picking up stuff for BBQ. I will probably try to do one "pre-order" and pick up for one of my vouchers but as others said I prefer to see teh meat and select myself.

[LUV_TO_EAT]

Funny you should be asking this...I just emailed them today trying to get a refund in light of all the problems. If and when I hear from them, I'll post back.

[toboggan3]

I purchased 2 "$40 for $100 of meat coupons" from "dealgetters" and would also like to see how to go about receiving a refund. I am getting a definite sinking feeling watching these threads. I am too damn old and should know by now that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

[MeMeMe]

We're hopefully in the process of getting a refund from them. We'll see how it goes - I'm sure they are overwhelmed by the number of people trying to do this!

[foodyDudey]

We may have to go through the company we bought the coupons from. That would be my guess as to the best course of action.

After all, the Butchers may just say sure you can have a refund, but we only process a maximum of 5 refunds a day and only between 9:30 and 9:45 am.

[MeMeMe]

Yep - we emailed DealGetters and I think they're going to do the refund. We emailed them once a couple of weeks ago and they lost the email.

[pinkprimp]

My first experience was great. I had a $100 for $40 coupon and used it for some great steaks (and also lacklustrous bacon and burgers). Due to this, I purchased another coupon ($150 for $50) thinking that I would just get $150 worth of steaks...well, after the second experience, I doubt I will patronize their store again, coupon or no coupon. Here's what happened:

1) I called Wednesday, thinking that I could place an order for the steaks for pick up on the coming Sunday. Woman picks up the phone and tells me to just email her the order as it would be easier that way - no mention of any "order before __ to pick up on ___" time lines. I also inquired about the steak and stilton pies (as they had no idea what i was talking about in-store when I asked about them on my first visit). She said they were making them as we were speaking and would likely be available when I came in on Sunday.

2) I diligently email them my order, including when I will be in to pick them up.

3) Sunday morning comes, and I head over. Here is where the customer service got ugly. (a) they said they never received an email from me...the owner even came over with the paper version of emails they received and thrusted them at me to show me that they didn't receive it (b) accusingly told me that even if they did, I did not meet the "deadline" to order (c) had no idea about steak and stilton pie...OR the woman that had answered my phone call.

I kept trying to calmly explain the chain of events and one of the older men working there kept cutting me off. The entire thing was just sooo off-putting.

At that point, I should have left and requested a refund on my coupon, if I hadn't already made plans to cook steaks for a few friends. I just chose a few steaks out of their refrigerator (they had about 8 saran-wrapped steaks on display, which was "all they had").

After this experience, even if the coupon discount gets upped to 90% off, I will not be returning. I don't like to patronize stores that treat their customers like how I was treated.

[food face]

Yep, I had a similiar experience. Except I ordered initially over the phone. The man that took my order was not a front line staff but a meat cutter. He was rushing me off the phone really obviously. When I came for pick up, NO record of it. The owner apologized and was quite nice actually. He suggested to e-mail my next order. So it's a little unnerving to read about pinkprimp's experience.

It's weird the way you can't just walk in and order what you want because every time I have done this dea (now 3 times), they don't have something I've ordered. I understand that its a small store and their selection is limitted but for heavens sake, let me just come in and use the coupon without making me jump through hoops of aggrivation for it. On the plus side, all the meat I've had has been nothing short of fresh and wonderful. The price we pay for "value". Sheesh.

[Pincus]

I don't eat a lot of meat at home, but I just want to walk by there and start filming this weekend.

[magic]

Add my voice to the chorus of displeasure.

When I used my first $25 for $50 voucher a few months ago - no issue. Great experience. Sweet staff too.

I went back recently to use my second voucher and unless you were interested in pork butts and quarter chickens you were out of luck. This time little kids were taking orders and serving people (I assume not actually butchering but who knows), I guess cuz they are overwhelmed.

Ridiculous. If I go a second time and I face the same issue I will ask for my money to be returned. I can’t keep on making trips to discover no product.

[foodyDudey]

Magic,
my local butcher now (and I really mean butchers, not purveyors of shrink wrapped bags of meat) is Ella's on Pape just south of Danforth Ave. They have a large walk in cooler where meat is dry aged, and band saws etc to cut up meat to your requirements.
I also have found some great meat at the Cheese Boutique but that requires a 20 minute drive. I recommend both of these stores for meat. You should try them out if they are not too far out of the way, I doubt you will be disappointed.

-----
Cheese Boutique
45 Ripley Ave, Toronto, ON M6S, CA

[millygirl]

foodyDudey, have you tried our new Friendly Butcher on the Danforth yet? We've been in a few times now and have been very happy with the beef.

[foodyDudey]

No I haven't. Is that the place that moved in where that fancy meat shop with kids who knew nothing behind the counter was? It's quite a trip from my house when Ellas is close by. I'll go check it out one day.

[millygirl]

Yes that's the place. And its nothing like it was. I agree, in that the original butcher was awful - went once - first and last. But these new guys really know there stuff and aim to please. AND the quality is fabulous. It's our new go to for rib eyes. Not cheap either, but def worth it. Along the same lines as Oliffes but cheaper.

[eller]

I've been to the Friendly Butcher on Danforth a few times. It's priced on-par with Rowe/Cumbrae and everything is clean and well presented. The guys there know their stuff and the owner is rumoured to be a big fan of smoking meat.

[foodyDudey]

I walked over on Sunday and bought a few items. They are all friendly and know more than the kidz crew that ran the last place. I had thought it was similar before I went in since it looks much like it did before. They have some good ham made from Tamworth pigs.

[Snarf]

I hear they've hired a few of the counter folks who used to work at Olliffe. Very competent.

-----
Olliffe
1097 Yonge St, Toronto, ON M4W, CA

[Splendid Wine Snob]

Super quality stuff with prices to match. The Friendly Butcher has been our go-to in the area, with side trips to Ella's ;)

[KitchenVoodoo]

From the "Friendly Butcher" on the Danforth I got an excellent shoulder of lamb to roast in Jamie Oliver "home" style, and it was amazing.
Expect sticker shock - but you really do get what you pay for. And they are extremely helpful, friendly and knowledgeable.

[millygirl]

Agreed on all accounts.

"Extremely helpful, friendly and knowledgable". And no fake smiles to boot. Winning combination. If only others would take a lesson from them.

[magic]

Any feedback on their Yonge St. location??

[TorontoJo]

The Friendly Butcher on Yonge is great. Ken, the owner, loves his job and is super helpful. I find that their stock of raw meat cuts is actually pretty limited, as they seem to do a stronger business in the prepped meats (marinated, skewered, etc.). However, they will pretty much cut anything to order on request. I also get my fresh turkeys from them, and they have always been excellent.

If you live nearby, it's a great place to grab lunch in the summer time, as they set up a grill outside and grill up steaks and sausages for sandwiches.

[magic]

Awesome, thanks for the info TorontoJo :)

[millygirl]

Aside from their meats, they do a great bbq chicken which we pick up quite regularly. And we also just tried their housemade herb and garlic pasta sauce. Very nice clean fresh taste.

[foodyDudey]

I bought a bbq chicken on that same visit, just didn't mention it. It was good but I like making those myself as I found the one there dry conpared to how I cook mine. I can't see how having it out on that plate for an hour helps it either. But it's a good store.

[millygirl]

Naturally nothing beats home cooked, which we prefer to do as well. So for those days, after work and starving, it's much better than say the supermarket chickens, or swiss chalet. Next best thing. I can't comment on the 'plate' because hubby picks it up, not I. However we've never had a problem with dryness. Then again, dare I say it, I love to douse mine in swiss chalet sauce.

[magic]

Thank you for the heartfelt recs foodyDudey. I will definitely go :)

[BuddSugerman]

Helen, I'm glad you took the time to post your thoughts. It will save some folks a lot of frustration. BTW, I tried yet again to pick up some meat, and the selection was, as per usual, very limited. They did have some striploins, which I bought. But when I got home I realized there was absolutely zero marbling (I should have obviously noticed in the shop but I was a bit frazzled). So, not only have they made it difficult to use the coupons due to delays (like you experienced) and the limited selection when you visit the shop, but the product can be of questionable quality. This is slightly unethical IMO since they claim to sell a high quality product. I wonder if the meat is really organic/naturally raised?

There is a long thread on RedFlag about problems people have had:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/butche...

[aser]

Their infrastructure can't handle of the volume of business they're promoting via coupon sites. I don't think they're trying to be dishonest, rather they're unrealistic about their capacity. It is a big mistake, generating a lot of ill will. The lure of quick cash infusion is proving to be too tempting for them, to their detriment.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. There has to be a catch, which is "inconvenience". Some people are willing to put up with it because of the quality of the meat, others cannot fathom having to wait 3 business days just to get some striploins.

Boils down to a personal choice.

[foodyDudey]

Well if I don't need organic meat from cows fed on 3 week old Kentucky Bluegrass, I can buy 28 day dry aged beef at Ellas on Pape, or fantastic 40 days dry aged T-bones at the Cheese Boutique. ($12.66 /lb !! )

I posted the pic of this steak from Cheese Boutique in another thread which wandered off to HOME COOKING so here it is again.

-----
Cheese Boutique
45 Ripley Ave, Toronto, ON M6S, CA

[aser]

Would love to get my hands on that, great pricing.

Only problem w/ cheese boutique is that it's so out of the way for me. I did see some 40 day dry age from $15.99 - $18.99/lb at Sanagan's the other day, depending on the cut.

[foodyDudey]

It may be out of the way if you, I'm not sure where you live. I also thought it was out of the way but from where I live it's 15 minutes by car. And then I drive 5 more minutes and pick up apple fritters at SanRemo bakery! So It's a nice little trip I'll make every few weeks now. And the Cheese Boutique has a table of cheeses at $13 each or 3 for $30, those are a great deal. You should check it out one day, and try the apple fritters at SanRemo... those are amazing and were mentioned in the apple fritter thread.

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/669945

-----
Cheese Boutique
45 Ripley Ave, Toronto, ON M6S, CA

[KitchenVoodoo]

Hey FoodyDudey - Want to start a Cheese Boutique + San Remo car pool? I thnk many Hounds like me have no wheels but would love to grab deals at far flung places (Cheese Boutique, Costo etc.) or explore ethnic enclaves like that Middle Eastern enclave along Lawerence East.

-----
Cheese Boutique
45 Ripley Ave, Toronto, ON M6S, CA

[foodyDudey]

Sure I may be intersted in that. I already had that idea a few weeks ago. I'm going on Saturday but I am meeting someone else and we are going to both places so this Saturday is not good. Now we have to figure out how to contact each other. I'm on that Chowhound meeting list.

[KitchenVoodoo]

Can you connect me to the same Chowhound meeting list?

[The Chowhound Team]

http://groups.google.com/group/chowho...

[Pincus]

http://www.thebutchersorganic.com/ind...

[Helen]

Yes, I did see this - I thought (silly me! that Wednesday through Saturday would be time enough.

[Pincus]

They're a bit cagey, one place it says 3 days, the other 3 business days.

Or, it could just be that no one proofread. Either way, it's confusing.

W (1) - Th (2) - Fr (3)...nope, it works either way in your case, unless they count the first day starting on the day after your request. Which would not be nice of them.

[foodyDudey]

Did I miss all the fine print when I bought the coupon? I don't recall anything about ordering 3 to 4 days in advance and by email, or having to specify that I was using a coupon when ordering. I'd like to see if the people using a coupon get exactly the same product. I'm not one to be suspicious but I'm starting to wonder why there are all these restrictions now.

Yongeman. what's the scoop?

[sbug206]

Also as reported on Redflag, you can't use the coupon on grocery items. Nowhere is it mentioned on the coupon about that restriction either. It's clear these guys are making it up as they go along and they didn't see the effects beyond the short term money.

[Georgia65]

The deal description on Dealfind said - "Each voucher is valid for $175 worth of organic naturally raised meats and all products in-store". I take this to mean all grocery items in store as well.

[Helen]

There's no grocery items to be had in this place

[foodyDudey]

I have a different coupon, the 50 for 150 one. It may have a different deal. But they may end up saying that they really meant "in-store products" as in made in-store, and that the text you see was a typo.

If anyone wants another coupon, mine is available. I'll try to get a refund if nobody wants to buy it.

[sbug206]

It's becoming clear this is a business that's not going to survive much longer. They certainly aren't interested in having repeat customers. I'm so glad I got my coupon refunded.

[TexSquared]

They need to get into business with the Wild Wing people, since "comedy of errors" seems to be a common theme....

[grandgourmand]

How did you get your coupon refunded? I've got two, and don't think it's worth the bother.