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Kobe burgers..

RobertM Mar 1, 2011 07:39 AM

Who in the area, DC Metro, offers this burger?

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  1. agarnett100 RE: RobertM Mar 1, 2011 07:51 AM

    Gordon Biersch - 900 F Street Northwest, Washington D.C

    1. monpetitescargot RE: RobertM Mar 1, 2011 08:48 AM

      are you looking only for kobe burgers or for high quality burgers?

      bonefish grill even serves a kobe burger. bourbon steak has good burgers from prime beef and they used to have a gryffons aerie burger.

      2 Replies
      1. re: monpetitescargot
        RobertM RE: monpetitescargot Mar 1, 2011 10:04 AM

        Well, for now, Kobe.....

        1. re: monpetitescargot
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          Raids RE: monpetitescargot Mar 1, 2011 11:49 AM

          Man, I buy my beef from gryffons when the farmer's market in front of my office is running and it it is truly phenomenal.

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          cb1 RE: RobertM Mar 1, 2011 11:09 AM

          not quite DC metro but Lures Bar & Grille right outside of Annapolis

          www.luresbarandgrille.com

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            Raids RE: RobertM Mar 1, 2011 11:47 AM

            I refer you to Anthony Bourdain's chapter on kobe burgers.

            In other words, I'm sure plenty of places in DC will sell you something called a kobe burger, but nobody is actually going to sell you a burger made with kobe beef because it would be (a) totally gross as a burger due to the extreme marbling and (b) a crime against cows.

            As far as I can tell, we cross-bred wagyu with angus in America, which wiki says resulted in much redder meat, so maybe that's what they are using, since it's been officially named "American-Style Kobe Beef." That's probably why so many restaurants have gone back to using the term "Wagyu" for true Japanese Kobe beef.

            Regarding good burgers, the grass-fed beef burger at Againn and the Big Drew in the lounge at PS7 were both out of this world good.

            4 Replies
            1. re: Raids
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              cb1 RE: Raids Mar 1, 2011 11:57 AM

              That's interesting. Lures which I posted about above has this on their menu,
              "American raised Kobe beef from the Wagyu breed" . Wonder if that's the cross-bred you mentioned.

              1. re: cb1
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                Raids RE: cb1 Mar 1, 2011 12:38 PM

                I think it would have to be, yeah. I don't think pure Wagyu beef would make for an edible burger.

                Take a look at a photo of the marbling from wiki:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wag...

                That is exactly what the wagyu beef I had at sushi taro looked like.

                1. re: Raids
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                  cb1 RE: Raids Mar 2, 2011 10:52 AM

                  That looks amazing!

                  1. re: cb1
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                    Raids RE: cb1 Mar 2, 2011 11:53 AM

                    Hell yeah. They slice it like sashimi and sear it quick. It's awesome.

                    That's when I started thinking that maybe the 8oz "kobe beef" steak I had at the Chophouse was not really authentic Kobe beef....which is not to say that American wagyu beef isn't damn good.

                    Also, the stuff I've had at Kushi was not as good. Not sure if they had a different cut, or if they have American wagyu.

            2. monpetitescargot RE: RobertM Mar 1, 2011 12:06 PM

              sei has sliders and a full size kobe burger. scion has one that describes itself on the menu as "ground kobe and sirloin" im not sure what that is supposed to mean.
              so does wolfgang puck's the source.

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                MikeR RE: RobertM Mar 5, 2011 11:56 AM

                When I was in Trader Joe's the other day I noticed they had a new package of "Kobe Beef Burgers (Wagyu beef)", two 8 oz patties for $6.

                I don't watch my diet meticulously, but I'm at the age where I look at the nutrition information on the packages and pass on things that I think are just too unhealthy. Man, this stuff will run you down pretty quick. Each patty contained 86% MDR of total fat, 106% saturated fat, 56% cholesterol. The good parts are 70% protein and only 6% sodium.

                Yeah, I bought a package. I'm saving up for when I think I can eat one without exploding. ;)

                3 Replies
                1. re: MikeR
                  ddawnzer RE: MikeR Mar 15, 2011 02:22 PM

                  That's awesome that Trader Joes has Kobe burgers. They really are not that unhealthy at all.
                  This I copied from Wiki

                  "The mountainous topography of the islands of Japan resulted in small regions of isolated breeding, yielding herds that developed and maintained qualities in their meat that differ significantly from all other breeds of cattle. Herd isolation and distinctive feeding techniques which resulted from the limited land availability have led to distinguishing features that make the meat both superior in marbling and in the ratios of unsaturated versus saturated fats"

                  1. re: ddawnzer
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                    MikeR RE: ddawnzer Mar 16, 2011 04:44 AM

                    Well, those are still bigger "fats" numbers than I usually buy, but probably no worse, probably better, than stuffing myself at one of the Brazilian rodizio places once or twice a year.

                    I had one of those Trader Joe's Kobe burgers last week and, yeah, it was really good.

                  2. re: MikeR
                    RobertM RE: MikeR Mar 16, 2011 03:12 PM

                    Im very sad you posted this. I went to TJ's as a result and purchased two packages.
                    Now, lipitor in hand, I await the weekend warm up to temp fate.
                    A Chowhound till the flavorful end!

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                    dining with doc RE: RobertM Mar 5, 2011 02:50 PM

                    Victoria Gastropub in Columbia has Kobe Beef Burger with home made pickles and white truffle cheese sauce on homemade brioche bun. fantastic and might beat Rays Hellsburger in a throwdown!!!!!

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                      AdamD RE: RobertM Mar 15, 2011 02:32 PM

                      Not to burst the bubble, but the "kobe" beef burger served in America is so far removed from real Japanese wagyu.

                      It is so misleading to call it kobe beef, that I am disgusted every time I see it. You can not reference a description of wagyu beef and apply it to what is served here in the US as "kobe."

                      It is the US industry taking the wagyu breed, watering it down, and serving it to you at a premium.

                      That being said, it is tasty, and the animals are treated a bit better than your average steer.
                      But they are trying to charge premium prices for slightly above average meat.

                      That being said, the Japanese do make ground beef out of wagyu. It is just a bit more of a challenge to get a leaner mix.

                      And, any meat lover should splurge for a top grade wagyu steak (think $200+ for a single strip) at least once in their life.

                      Sorry, rant over, good luck in your search.

                      3 Replies
                      1. re: AdamD
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                        will_5198 RE: AdamD Mar 15, 2011 04:10 PM

                        Basically. There is really no such thing as a "Kobe" burger being served at everyday restaurants.

                        1. re: AdamD
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                          MikeR RE: AdamD Mar 16, 2011 04:48 AM

                          I guess the Kobe cows need a better lobby. Consider how hard France tries to keep "Champagne" off the label of any sparkling white wine that doesn't come from the Champagne region. It doesn't take a real expert to know the difference, but it takes a pedantic to care (and it's good that we have them to teach us).

                          1. re: MikeR
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                            AdamD RE: MikeR Mar 16, 2011 05:12 AM

                            Indeed. Unlike French wine producers, the Japanese breeders of wagyu and kobe don't depend on the American market. In fact, its only recently become available in the US. After checking prices, I was too low. A 16 oz. strip is $300 online.

                        2. MsDiPesto RE: RobertM Mar 15, 2011 07:17 PM

                          I've tried the TJ burgers. I guess the American version is Wagyu, right? And the authentic Japanese version is the real Kobe? Anyway, I knew what I was getting. Yum! I've only done them on the stovetop, but they were surprisingly good, and huge! I can barely finish one! I had read stories that said you can't make burgers, it's a waste, etc., but I'm rather pleased with these and look forward to grilling them over charcoal.

                          7 Replies
                          1. re: MsDiPesto
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                            Raids RE: MsDiPesto Mar 16, 2011 07:56 AM

                            I can't see how there would be any problem with making burgers from beef from American-bread Wagyu cows. They are not marbled at all like Japanese Kobe beef.

                            I guess if I were Japan I'd be all about defending the Kobe label. Like, maybe Wagyu could be used for any beef from Japanese cross-bred strains, like Tottori, Tajima, Okayama, Kochi, and Kumamoto, but "Kobe" should mean raised in Japan using the traditional methods that promote marbling.

                            However, it's not really like Champagne, because that is enforced by not allowing the importation of any bubbly produced outside of Champagne, like in Napa, label itself as such, whereas the Japanese don't allow the importation of any American beef anyway.

                            1. re: Raids
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                              AdamD RE: Raids Mar 16, 2011 08:03 AM

                              Even more specific, KOBE means wagyu style beef from KOBE. Wagyu beef is the general term. There are other regionally specific names as well such as matsutaka.
                              And the Japanese do served ground wagyu. Not as a burger, but as a chopped steak with a demi glace based sauce, an elevated salisbury steak if you will. It is a popular lunch option at steakhouses that feature wagyu.

                              1. re: AdamD
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                                Raids RE: AdamD Mar 16, 2011 10:44 AM

                                Okay, take it up with Anthony Bourdain. I am only repeating what I read in his latest book.

                                I guess you still have to do *something* with the scraps.

                                1. re: Raids
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                                  AdamD RE: Raids Mar 16, 2011 10:59 AM

                                  Id guess Bourdain was referring to serving it on a bun with toppings and condiments.
                                  And exactly right, the Japanese dont waste a gram of that stuff. And there are degrees of marbling in the wagyu, so Id guess they blend the leaner cuts in when they make the chopped steak.

                                  All of that being said, the Aus/US "kobe," although mislabeled IMHO, is still nice beef, and it makes a nice burger. I just wont pay outrageous prices for it.

                                  1. re: AdamD
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                                    Raids RE: AdamD Mar 16, 2011 12:01 PM

                                    What he actually said was that it just wouldn't make any sense to use a beef prized for its marbling in burger, where you can add whatever fat you want. It just doesn't add any advantage whatsoever. But yeah, I can see that you'd still use the scraps, of course. You just wouldn't go out of your way to make burgers with the stuff.

                                    And I agree, non-Japanese Wagyu is definitely good and makes a nice burger, but it's not, IMHO, any better than any well-sourced grass fed beef. The stuff from Gryffon's mentioned upthread really is to die for, as is the burger they serve at Againn.

                                    ETA: And PS7, but it the genius seasoning that I'm really remembering there. God that was a great burger.

                                    1. re: Raids
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                                      Dreamworks RE: Raids Mar 21, 2011 03:05 PM

                                      The cheeseburger at Bourbon Steak made me see Jesus. Just saying.

                                      1. re: Dreamworks
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                                        Raids RE: Dreamworks Mar 22, 2011 04:20 AM

                                        Any thoughts on what the secret sauce is? Also, why am I reading that DC won't let restaurants use wood-burning fires elsewhere on the Board when half a dozen menu items at Bourbon Steak are described as "oak-fired"?

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                            lilkimbo RE: RobertM Mar 22, 2011 01:34 PM

                            A little off topic, but for those of you who are looking for "real" Japanese Kobe beef (not in burger form), BLT Steak offers it at $26/oz.

                            3 Replies
                            1. re: lilkimbo
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                              Elyssa RE: lilkimbo Mar 23, 2011 08:15 AM

                              I'm pretty sure the actual burger at BLT Steak is not Kobe though. It is pretty fantastic though. I was in Miami last week and we had lunch at BLT Steak down there. I imagine the menus are pretty different but at least at the one in Miami the burger was not grassfed and not Kobe (we asked out of curiosity). It was delicious though!

                              1. re: Elyssa
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                                lilkimbo RE: Elyssa Mar 23, 2011 08:22 AM

                                It's not, but as has been noted throughout this thread, you can't get an actual Japanese Kobe burger anywhere in D.C. The one that you noted (at The Source) is an "American Style" Kobe Burger.

                              2. re: lilkimbo
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                                AdamD RE: lilkimbo Mar 23, 2011 09:40 AM

                                That sounds about right. a 12-16 oz strip would run you $312-$416.

                                I would guess you are unlikely to find a Japanese wagyu chopped steak dish outside of NY or SF. I haven't seen it in NYC.

                                You can mail order Japanese wagyu burgers
                                http://www.thewagyubeef.com/wabebu.html

                                Although I have never tried them and cannot vouch for authenticity, the site sure has some nice photos! One look and you can see a very big difference between Japanese and American wagyu.
                                Nothing in the US comes close to that marbling.

                              3. e
                                Elyssa RE: RobertM Mar 23, 2011 08:08 AM

                                I'm pretty sure the burger at The Source is kobe beef and is DELICIOUS! They also have a lunch deal where the burger is on the menu. Here is a write up my friend did on her blog when we went there for lunch: http://www.mangotomato.com/2010/03/lu...

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