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Riedel Vinum Daiginjo Sake Glass

Anyone seen these in any shops in Toronto? Not a big fan of drinking out of a Choko or a Masu. (Or a combination of the two) Ironically enough, I was drinking a bottle of Chokaisan tonight which made me wonder why I hadn't picked up some of these glasses yet. (Chokaisan Junmai Daiginjo was used to determine the optimal shape for the Riedel Sake Glass)

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  1. Wm Ashley? Surely there's something available in stock that's close?

    1 Reply
    1. re: Kagemusha

      There was something in stock that was exact. Thanks man!

    2. Have you tried The Wine Establishment? Even if they don't have this particular model, they can probably order it for you.

      1. Just use a good Riesling glass. Same difference. This is just Riedel's little way of saying "We create an artificial need for glasses that really already exist. Because we can".

        11 Replies
        1. re: Asomaniac

          Thanks Kagemusha and SWS, I checked those places and I'm sure they can order one for me if I can't find one on the shelf. (which I don't really expect to but I had to try)

          @ Asomaniac, thanks for the advice from afar my friend. Haha. I'm sucked in by their marketing. I should just stop being an A-Hole and buy a good Riesling glass.

          1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

            Hey P.I.G., don't get me wrong, I like gadgets as much as the next man, and for different wines they do make a huge difference - I have about 10 sets of 6 of different types of wine glasses because it really does make a huge difference to the flavour. We sometimes do tastings of the same wines in different glasses at my home with some wine nut friends, and the differences in taste of the same wine are enormous between some of the glasses (though not all, in some cases they are negligable (or our palates are not up to scratch)).

            But in some cases, Riedel take it a bit too far. They create different glasses for different wines that have very similar properties and should really require the same glass. I think the same applies to the Riesling glasses (look at the shape of the daiginjo glass and a sommelier series Riesling glass for example). And don't forget that the president of Dassai specifically recommends using Riesling glasses for his sake...

            Of course, the converse works as well: you can use your daiginjo glass for Riesling and many other medium bodied whites.

            1. re: Asomaniac

              Yeah, a friend was just schooling me as to the difference varied wine glasses will make on the same wine. He does just what you do at home with the multiple glass wine tastings.

              Sakurai San recommends it? Fitting coming from someone who is no stranger to marketing...

              What series from Riedel would you recommend? I hear about certain ones being very fragile and not holding up etc.

              1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                Get the cheapest to start with - if you can't tell the difference (it takes practise with differing qualities of wine) then stick with those. For 'everyday' wines a solid red and white suffices. Because I'm a riesling nut I always use the riesling glass (Sommelier - I haven't bought the 'old Riesling' one because I don't drink enough of those). It's worth it to me to get the maximum out of the wine. And I also use it for sake and other non-oaked wines.

                The other Sommelier I use whenever possible is the Champagne - it even improves a low-end sparkler such as Cava (again I didn't get the 'Vintage Champagne' just the regular). The visual experience of the bubbles corkscrewing up from the bottom of that glass sets the mood even before tasting.
                And finally the 'biggest Burgundy' - when one finds a great Burgundy, it's a revelation - and the glass again magnifies the experience (albeit ostentatious). If you can afford a fine Burgundy, it doesn't make sense to skimp on the glass.

                Other than the Champagne I NEVER fill the glass higher than the widest part of the bowl - and often far less.

                Cleaning is always by hand and NEVER hold by the stem - by the bowl or the base for a final wipe of the bowl. I use two sinks - one with soap and another to rinse under running water. I've heard that the final rinse should be with mineral water and then just leave to drain - but I don't have the patience or room for that. I haven't broken any for at least 5 years now (although did break a couple early before I figured out NOT to hold by the stem).

                We've done the test MANY times using different glasses - there's always someone new who doesn't believe the hype and has to be shown.

                And a final comment for those who can't (or won't) afford a Riedel (or equivalent competitor) - ALWAYS use a rimless glass - not one with a 'bead' around the rim. One of my quirks is to give the identical wine in two ISO-style glasses and ask the taster for comments. They ALWAYS prefer the rimless version (OK a few people say they're the same -- but VERY few - all Riedels are rimless!).

                1. re: estufarian

                  estufarian - agree with all this.

                  The Champagne, Riesling, Bordeaux and Burgundy sommelier series glasses are very expensive but absolutely worth the price if you have the right wines to fill them with.

                  Riesling is by far my favourite white grape variety and the sommelier series Riesling glasses really do a tremendous job.

                  I think it's also worth getting the standard Burgundy glasses - good for everyday Pinot and Chardonnay, but also Nebbiolo (ie Barolo, Barbaresco, though for the top stuff you'll want to go a step up, glass-wise) or Austrian Blaufraenkisch.

                  There are some great glasses by Schott-Zwiesel as well, which brand also has the advantage of being cheaper than Riedel.

                  1. re: estufarian

                    Thanks for all of that information! I really only drink Sake so I will probably end up just grabbing a Riesling Sommelier series. I'm not into sparkling sake so I probably won't venture into the Champagne Sommelier.

                    Just out of curiosity what's the difference between glasses with a stem and stemless glasses? I would assume that with a stemless glass your hand is in more contact with the bowl thus affecting the temperature of the Sake or Wine?

                    1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                      and they're trendier.

                      i find the swirling much more satisfying in a stemmed vs stemless as well.

                      1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                        The stemless fit into a dish washer more easily (that's the basic answer).
                        Some vendors claim that they're more stable - but having knocked over a stemless last week (at Lee Lounge) and it's been several years since I knocked over a stemmed glass, my limited experience is just the converse.

                        I agree with PP that there's an intangible in the swirling too. Just 'feels' better.

                        -----
                        Lee Lounge
                        601 King St W, Toronto, ON M5V 1M5, CA

                        1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                          Prefer stemmed, less contact w/ the hands as you say. However, for space reasons, stemless is more practical. The ones I have are the Riedel stemless but not sake, although very similar to this.

                          http://www.bedbathandbeyond.ca/produc...&

                          1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                            I hate stemless glasses for wine and would never buy them.

                            They are convenient for various reasons as some posters say, so I can see the appeal. However, drinking wine is also about the visual experience, and drinking wine out of a stemless glass lacks any aesthetic value, it to me diminishes the experience. A lot.

                            Also, on a more practical level, you will warm up the wine, especially if you are drinking it standing around with other people, which means you will likely be holding it the whole time, rather than placing it on a table whenever you are not drinking.

                2. So,

                  Found the Riedel Vinum series Daiginjo Sake Glass at WM Ashley (Yorkville). Ran me $55 for two of them ($24 each plus tax) which is a couple bucks cheaper than the Vinum Zinfandel/Riesling glass they offer. Also about $35 cheaper than the Sommelier series Chianti/Zinfandel/Riesling Grand Cru glass.

                  I chose the Sake glass because not only is it cheaper which is great, but it seems to have had a bit of R & D go into it. If the sommelier series ever comes out with a Daiginjo glass I'll get one to cross reference against the Vinum series (and my other glassware/Bizen ware for that matter). to see how much hand blown glass changes the taste, but for now I'm satisfied with the Vinum series.

                  Compared to the Riesling the Daiginjo glass has a shorter stem, a slightly wider bowl, and a wider mouth. Didn't take note of the foot but I imagine them to be similar as well.

                  I guess Riedel was originally approached by Fukumitsuya in 1997 the brewery responsible for Kagatobi to produce this glass. Other breweries joined in (or where invited to join) soon after, in collaboration on the production of this glass. Those breweries are listed on the side of the tube that the glass comes in and go as follows:

                  Sawanoi
                  Daishichi
                  Makoto Yone
                  Gekkeikan
                  Kotsuzumi
                  Kagatobi
                  Urakasumi
                  Chokaisan
                  Masumi
                  Tsukasabotan
                  Mizuisuma? (not 100% sure if that's the name, only one I haven't heard of / tried)
                  Kubota

                  Add to that list countless Sake experts from around Japan and you have an R&D process I would have liked to have been a part of.

                  Now comes the fun of testing to see what Sake goes well with which instrument. I suspect Sake with strong aromatics are a shoe in for the Riedel, as it was designed specifically to house Daiginjo with that characteristic.

                  I'm drinking a bottle of Hoyo "Genji" Tokubetsu Junmai whose nose of Amoxicillin is greatly enhanced by the Riedel. (Amoxicillin = Banana Milkshake flavored medicine) Compared to my Central Brewers Association glass.

                  19 Replies
                      1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                        Hilarious! Man, you would be great fun in a tasting group!

                        1. re: Splendid Wine Snob

                          Hmmmm, a tasting group would be more fun than drinking Sake by myself while I sit and wish that I had people to drink Sake with...(only partially true)

                          1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                            Don't lie. Drinking sake alone is great, but... maybe we should form a tasting group?

                              1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                                Totally missed this post!

                                I've added it to my CH profile.

                    1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                      If you get the chance, try sake out of the daiginjo glass and in parallel out of a good quality large Riesling glass and tell us if you genuinely taste a difference, and if so, what kind of difference. R&D, Shmar & D, I remain very skeptical that a huge difference will be detectable by a normal-palated taster (but am very willing to be proved wrong).

                      1. re: Asomaniac

                        I've never had the opportunity to clean a septic tank with a napkin, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it.

                        It is with that same assurance that I can confidently say there's probably little difference between the Daiginjo Glass and the Riesling glass.

                        That said, the Daiginjo glass was staring me in the face in the most unlikely city to find any Sake that doesn't taste purely of Ethanol, at a cheaper price than the Riesling glass, so I guess why not buy it right?

                        I feel like I should validate the statistical anomaly that is twelve breweries in a room together drinking Sake out of a glass with a stem.

                        Maybe we save the glass comparison for when I get into Tokyo...

                        1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                          Oh, completely! Don't misunderstand me - since you mainly drink sake rather than wine, and a good glass that is appropriate for a specific type of drink makes a big difference, of course it makes sense to buy that glass. Why go for the Riesling glass when Riesling is not what you drink, and a sake glass is available?

                          The only reason I started this whole Riesling glass / daiginjo glass debate was because Riesling glasses are widely available and work well, and I didn't realise you are not really into wine; plus to make the point that sometimes the good people from Riedel are not above putting at least the same effort into marketing as R&D, and creating demand for a product which more or less they are already producing under a different name.

                          1. re: Asomaniac

                            Oh yeah, and I totally agree with what you're saying about Riedel. I think with them in a lot of cases the R&D itself is a huge part of the marketing.

                            Yeah, not really into wine at all although it's not something I'm ruling out for the future. I'm more of a Sake/Port/Cognac type of person.

                            1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                              Excellent. When you come to Tokyo, I would be happy to extend the drinks repertoire by port and cognac, which I also love (but am not very knowlegable about as cognac is a recent discovery for me - never had really gotten into it previously, until suddenly fairly recently something clicked, fell into place).

                              I am always really surprised when someone with a good palate and a love of sake is not into wine. The variety available is so very vast, much much more than is the case with sake, given the literally thousands of grape varieties and thousands of wine regions around the world. If it just doesn't do it for you, it just doesn't do it for you, but I hope that at some point you have a wine that really impresses you and that will give you an impetus to get into it.

                              It's odd how that sort of thing can happen suddenly. I am 35 but only very recently all of a sudden really got into whiskey, cognac and calvados. I only started liking sake when I was 31. although that may have to do with the fact that I started my current stint in Tokyo when I was 30, and during my previous stays as a student or company intern had no money and no friends who liked good sake. That meant that I was never introduced to the decent stuff, and never went in search of it as I only knew the paint stripper type stuff that was disgusting and thought that all sake was like that.

                              1. re: Asomaniac

                                Haha, right on. When I get back into town I may be on the hunt for some of that punchy competition Sake you where talking about.

                                Yeah, for a number of reasons I guess wine doesn't appeal all that much to me. Wish it did. It's a lot easier to get ahold of than Sake around here.

                                Yeah I guess your palate just changes over time. I got into Sake at a very young age as my father was a sushi chef and I've always had an interest in it however I find as I get older that I can't take as much rich food anymore.

                      2. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                        Haven't had the Genji - is it available here?

                        1. re: estufarian

                          Unfortunately not. If it was, I would drink it regularly. Readily available in the US though and definitely worth picking up if you get the chance.

                          1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                            I think I'm 'flagged' at the border, so too risky to bring stuff in.

                            1. re: Notorious P.I.G.

                              I was wondering how a Torontonian gets so into sake.

                              1. re: graydyn

                                Listening to Japanese C & W music!