Wow that server is CUTE ... does it matter?

[Augie6]

Ok., here is the deal.. Basicly, one of my fave restaurants have been going down hill termendously.. Started off with food, then they added some type of very trashy soup and sald bar type thing.. Now the service...

OVERWHELMINGLY, both male and females have told me they are not going to that restaurant because they are now hiring unattractive servers. I will agree the new hires are not beatiful and slightly slopy for the type of place, but do a half decent job..

How important is the appreacance of servers? put aside the food portion just a little

[Jetgirly]

When I was sixteen I would always go to the same coffee shop on my coffee break because the barista was so cute! But I think he was secretly in love with me too. Call me Mark! I'm (more than) legal age now!

[uwsister]

If Chowhound had a "like" function, I would "like" this post!

[Tripeler]

Well, if the server asks me for my phone number, YEAH I would say it matters. A lot, really.

[MonMauler]

I am a single man in his late twenties.

And I would never go to a restaurant to eat because of attractive waiters/waitresses or host/hostess. My decisions regarding food are made almost exclusively based on my current thoughts on what type of food I want to eat, the general quality of the food at an establishment, and the convenience of eating there. That said, once I'm at a restaurant, if my server is an attractive female my tip will almost always be higher than if the case was otherwise. In fact, the only time in which I'll give an attractive female server an "average" tip is if the service is downright bad.

Bars are a different story. I will and do go to bars based on how attractive the bartenders are. I much prefer my bartenders to be female, but mixing in an attractive male or two is appreciated as well, to help bring in attractive female clientele.

[crazee]

As long as they are clean, prompt and polite I could care less what my server looks like, they can be older, heavy or pierced or whatever.

Speaking from the (former) server side of things, I found good looks help with tips, especially from men or groups of. On the other hand I have had wives tell their husband "not to tip so much", especially if the husband has been flirting with me. I would never flirt with a male customer who had a female with him, that's rude in my books....I would try to just brush it off and turn it into a joke, but some wives did not appreciate the man's behaviour and they will take it out on the tip.

I have tatoos and piercings...but no one I was serving would ever be in the position to be seeing them, so they made no difference at my workplace.

[babette feasts]

Not very. I do enjoy a hot flirty server of the opposite sex but enjoy it more if the service is good. I don't think it affects my decision making, though.

On the other hand, the other day the chef mentioned to me that the GM had interviewed a potential new server and dismissed her as too cute. I didn't see the interviewee, but thought it was a strange comment. Do the other servers get pissy when the new person is more conventionally attractive, or was the GM just trying to cultivate a certain feel to the restaurant? Apparently we value quirkiness, or there must have been some bad experiences with hotties, not sure.

[chef chicklet]

Every single time I hear that someone judges another on appearance I can't help but laugh. I worked for GTE when it was GTEW on the West coast, and there was this article in a newspaper interviewing Bill Gates. Seems Bill was turned down after he botched the interview. The interviewer could not get past the fact that Bill didn't wear socks. Personally I hope that person was fired. Huge loss for GTE at that time, huge.

No I would not care if someone had piercings or tatoos, and looks, I can't even describe how shallow that would be, if I were to think such things. What would you do if that person were handicapped? had a speech impediment or for heaven sake had a facial disfigurement. Please.

[racer x]

Huge loss for GTE? Not so sure. Was the company looking for someone who would be a disruptive force or someone who would fit within their level of comfort?
For every 1,000 corporate job applicants who doesn't wear socks to an interview (circa 30+ yrs ago or so), how many turns out to be a Bill Gates?

But back to topic.

This is one of those subjects that I don't think chowhounds will ever agree about.

For some people, for some meals at least, the presentation (ie, the appearance) of the food matters quite a bit
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/PT-AL635_kyoto_G_20090514182338.jpg
http://www.camemberu.com/2009/06/food...

-- while for others it is only the taste and nutritional value of the food that are important.
With disagreements even at that level, it's no surprise really that we will disagree about whether the appearance of the server matters.

[Tripeler]

It really only matters if you are in need of a quick fantasy about a particular server.

[The Chowhound Team]

Sorry, folks. We've removed a number of posts focusing on bigotry and body art, as just too far afield for our purposes here.

[redfish62]

I ate at a place once where the male server was wearing a great deal of makeup .... like Adam Lambert, except a lot more. It's kind of striking at first but after that I didn't notice it.

Place was called Quarter Scene in New Orleans. Food was great when the Adam Lambert guy served us but I went back a couple of years later and it wasn't so good.

[racer x]

Slightly different question from the OP, but there are a few studies that have attempted to determine whether servers who are more attractive receive higher tips.

The answer is yes.
(Of course, none of the studies has been ideal -- you can criticize aspects of the methods and analyses, but the overall trend seems to be that servers who are perceived as more attractive get higher tips.)

And waitresses get higher tips when they wear makeup.
And blondes get higher tips.

"The Give and Take on Restaurant Tipping" Matthew B Parrett, 2003
http://tinyurl.com/parretttip
(see the sudy results in chapter 3, as well as the literature survey introducing chapter 3)

"Waitresses' Facial Cosmetics and Tipping: A Field Experiment" (France) 2010
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1189756/What-waitress-wear-want-tips-25-cent-.html

"Determinants and Consequences of Female Attractiveness and Sexiness: Realistic Tests with Restaurant Waitresses" Michael Lynn, PhD 2009
http://tinyurl.com/lynnprettytip

[linguafood]

"Determinants and Consequences of Female Attractiveness and Sexiness: Realistic Tests with Restaurant Waitresses" Michael Lynn, PhD 2009

Wow. I'd have loved to be at the defense of that thesis. Do you know what field this guy got a PhD in... sociology?

[racer x]

"Wow that server is CUTE ... does it matter?"

Depends on what you mean by 'matter.'

All other things being equal (equally competent, equally clean-appearing, equally well-dressed), if I am rating the overall experience at two restaurants, I will tend to rate a restaurant with gorgeous servers higher than one with ugly servers. If both places have outstanding food and outstanding service, or awful food and awful service, it won't make a difference in how I describe the places to others. But if both places have average food and service, it probably will.

And I agree with salisburyj, the appearance of the servers is part of the whole experience.
For me, it's kind of like the physical attractiveness of airline attendants. Flight attendants' beauty isn't the most important consideration when I choose an airline for a flight, but all other things being equal, it can certainly sway which airline I go with.

How much weight I put on the servers' attractiveness depends--

Am I taking guests to a place to impress them (meeting with a client, a first date, first time out with the inlaws, etc)? If so, then yes, it matters.
If I am just trying to grab a quick bite to sate my hunger, then no, it doesn't matter much.

Am I paying an arm and a leg for a fancy meal? Then yes, it matters.
If I'm just paying a few bucks for comfort food, then no, it doesn't matter that much.

[dump123456789]

"Flight attendants' beauty isn't the most important consideration when I choose an airline for a flight, but all other things being equal, it can certainly sway which airline I go with."

Are there even two airlines which are equal except for the beauty of their flight attendants ?

[rworange]

No ... seriously?

Can you seriously tell me that the situations you described where you place higher value on attractive servers you would say to yourself "Hmmm ... which restaurant should I go to? Which has the more attractive servers".

So you wouldn't take a client to a great steakhouse that is known for its' long-time wait staff? You would reject taking your inlaws or even a date to a great deli with the crusty waiters?

I see from your profile you travel in Asia a lot. Is that influencing your decision. I only spent a few months in Taiwain and ate at a lot of nice restaurants. However, I can't think of a single instance where the servers were anything but average people.

I can say the same for high end Asian restaurants in the SF area. I've never been struck by the 'cute' factor in any of them.

[racer x]

Servorg -
Two restaurants with similarly good food and good service, yes I would consider how attractive the waitstaff are. (I'm talking about restaurants with table service, not just delis where you get something to go from the counter.)

Matter of fact, I've mentioned the attractiveness of the waitstaff in some of my online reviews of restaurants.

(I am basing this on experiences I've had in places where I've lived, not places I've visited for just a few days while traveling.)

Btw, I never said attractiveness SHOULD be a factor that is considered. How things are and how they ought to be aren't necessarily the same.

[uwsister]

racer x - I totally get what you mean. The important phrase here is "All other things being equal." If there are two servers, one attractive and the other not so, and they are both competent, well-groomed, etc. I would prefer an attractive server. Doesn't mean I'll go to a crappy restaurant because servers are good-looking or I wouldn't go to a great restaurant because servers are ugly. But it doesn't hurt to have attractive servers. Why can't a server be attractive as well as competent? If I have to look at somebody a bunch of times while eating, I would rather look at someone who's attractive. I guess I'm shallow.

[gaffk]

Augie-you should post your e-mail address on your profile. I have some feedback that I won't share with the world.

[Augie6]

good idea done.. [e-mail]

[Pincus]

It's never been a factor in deciding to go to a place, but I've had mediocre food ameliorated by an attractive server being around.

[salisburyj]

It is very important . Eating at a restaurant is a total experience, and is not just about the food. The atmosphere, the decor, lighting AND the physical appearance of the server all are components that create the experience that you are paying for. They each will have an impact on how the food is enjoyed, or not.

[invinotheresverde]

Really? Having a 36-24-36 waitress has never once factored into how good my gnocchi taste.

[fourunder]

ever have sushi off a naked model at a party? The rice is perculiarly warm.

:0)

[invinotheresverde]

Does blowing lines count?

I jest...

[fourunder]

Me too....

[Isolda]

If by "appearance," you mean that they are sloppy, unkempt and showing signs of bad hygiene, yes, it does matter. But if you mean they are not blessed in the genes department, but are otherwise well-groomed and bathed, well, no, it doesn't.

[rworange]

I would find a better and less shallow group of people to hang out with ... or at least note the people who feel this way and know them for what they are.

As someone said, this is a food board and that is what matters to the people here.

The issue here, from your posts, is looks and not hygiene ... that is, young and model pretty as opposed to anyone else.

Of course it matters to some, but they are not going to those places for the food ... it is to socialize. If there also happens to be good food, that is just a plus. Somehow, I don't think that type of person would really notice or be drawn to a place because the food was good.

Time evens all things out. In not so many years, these people will be older and find themselves on the scrap heap in some people's opinion.

[Augie6]

These are not exactly my friends they are patrons of a resturant i frequent....hygiene does factor into looks tremendously..

As this is a food board this board is here " For Those Between-Meal Issues"

I really do agree with people not wanted to just go thier for food, but soclialize and be given a scense of presence.

[rworange]

So, are you saying that it is just not a matter of looks but the new people have dirty fingernails, etc. Or is it their hair is combed and clean, but they just don't frequent the latest salon.

I'm not saying this issue doesn't belong on this board ... what I'm saying is that to the majority of people who are drawn to this site, the server appearance, outside of being grossly unhygenic, isn't going to matter if the food is great.

I'm not opposed to eye candy in the least. A drop dead gorgeous waiter flirted with me at a restaurant recently and it was fun ... even though I could be his mother ... tho that guy was soooo good-looking that I can't say the thought of entertaining a gigalo didn't cross my mind ... sure ... I LOVE to dance ... where would you suggest we go after work? Anyone who knows me would know how absurd that situtation is.

The food at the place is uneven though and the cutie isn't enough to move this place to the top of my places to frequent or visit again.

Anyway, why are you going to a place that is going downhill food-wise?

[Augie6]

Its slightly more than looks.. I will not go as far to say they dirty..just not well groomed. Wrinkle shirts.. outfits either too tight or too big..... I have somewhat of a friendly bond with this rest. and feel slightly obligated to visted once in a while. Since the food decline I have only went about once a month

[Jay F]

Augie, if you would like to e mail me the name of the restaurant, my address is on my profile. Thanks.

[rworange]

It sounds like from another post, you broke that bond because the downhill thing had to do with the owner thinking of selling the place. Life's too short to eat bad food.

If the owner doesn't care about the appearance of his staff, as in being unkempt, think of what may be going on in the kitchen that you can't see. It may extend beyond food that no longer tastes good to food that is improperly handled.

[bobbert]

I remember quite vividly the first time I had a server who was really tweaked up to the max. Piercing all over his face; nose, eye brows, cheeks, chin and even a glimpse of a tongue ring. Tattoos all over. The ears had giant holes that you could easily slide a finger through. I sat there dumbfounded as he went through the specials for the evening. Once I got past all the stuff, he turned out to be a very good server. This was about 15 years ago. I’m used to it now.

[tito]

Not specifically speaking of your particular restaurant, I find that it certainly does not hurt to have attractive servers.

A manager that I used to work for would hire only blond, attractive femaile servers.

His bar was constanly packed...........

[invinotheresverde]

We used to go to a restaurant that only hired cute, young female waitresses. The service was usually beyond bad, but the food was decent. We stopped going when I had to open my own bottle of wine, as the cutesy-pie server had no idea how to open the bottle and certainly didn't own a wine key.

Give me an old, unattractive, COMPETENT server anyday.

[Augie6]

you know invino.. I am not that familiar with wine.. but use to frequent a bar known for the beer selection and the tenders able to give quality opininons... Now they hired two IMHO unbelievable pretty girls. I can't lie i was really happy until they started to talk and could not figure out how to open some of the special bottles ..

[invinotheresverde]

Exactly.

Not saying a young, pretty girl can't be a great server (hey, I was one back in the day). I just prefer someone who does a good job over someone who looks good.

[ediblover]

Restaurants are all about the food. I spend most of my time looking at the food and probably look at the servers (at maximum) about 5% of the time I'm there. So, it has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not I choose to go to a certain place. I can't say for sure about appearances affecting tipping. I don't think it does, but, without data, who knows? (My tipping is based heavily on the food. If it's good, it just puts me in a good mood and the tip goes up.)

On piercings and tattoos, I think it really depends on the setting, which may be the obvious comment. A formal place where jackets are required shouldn't have servers that have facial piercings or visible tattoos. If it's very casual or a grunge/young/hip place, heck, go short sleeve and show your wears. The servers are representing the establishment, so they should dress, appear and behave accordingly.

[Augie6]

The servers are representing the establishment, so they should dress, appear and behave accordingly.--- Great Line !!! I cvouldn't agree more

[guilty]

Consciously, I couldn't care less what the servers look like. I'm probably less likely to go to places where the female waitstaff dress for tips (ifyouknowwhatImean) due to my outdated feminism. But unconsciously? I think we all are attracted to "attractive" people. Unfair and shallow? Yes. And while I'm probably not the only one who resents overly attractive people and is more likely to hate them, I don't think that we jealous, bitter resenters are enough to balance out everyone else.

Though for the record, I think face piercings and tattoos are great. As long as you don't smell, get my order right, keep your hair and skin away from my food, and are not outright rude, I'm pretty easy to please. When I'm in a restaurant, anyway.

[mikie]

I don't think physically attractive is as important as clean, polite, neat, did I mention clean, well kept, clean or maybe I mentioned that already.

A group of us were on the way out of town and stoped at an airport version of a well known establishment, that shall go unnamed, for lunch. When the waitres finally came out to take our orders, she was attractive enough I suppose, but looked like she just got out of bed and had slept in her cloths, appologized for having us wait, but she wasn't supposed to work today and had been out parttying all night before she got called in. As she left with our orders, which we all knew she would screw up, because she didn't write them down, I said to the group, oh God, please don't let her touch my food! As she was balancing the wrong (for the most part) food, my plate started to slip, and then in a split second, she grabbed the bun to keep it from going to the floor, a bare handed grab like a short stop with a slow ground ball. We have never gone back, ever. She is probably long since found other employment, but we still haven't gone back. Attractive is nice, but maybe the people you spoke to don't find the new wait staff well kept. You don't have to be cute to look good.

[dump123456789]

I'm thinking what monku's thinking, which is that the appearance of the servers was not what drove people away, but more like the last straw.

Some people probably left when the food started going downhill. Others could put up with lower quality of food, but left when the trash quotient went up with soup and salad bar type thing. Then the people who were willing to lower their standards for the food and the trashy s/s bar finally had enough when the atmosphere started to slide with the hiring of sloppy servers. They figured they'd been loyal long enough, and it didn't look like the place was going to reverse course, so they bailed.

The appearance of the servers was more the straw that broke the camel's back, and a final indicator to those former customers that the place was not going to recover. I doubt anybody left only because the servers were all notties.

[chickenbruiser]

wait staff are as much a part of the decor as the chairs... restaurants procure a look for their establishment
trendy modern usually want young attractive waiters
upscale old school usually like male waiters

where deemed attractive or "not" they should all know how to do their job properly

but seriously.. 2 equally qualified people are going for the same wait job... manager will choose the one that "looks" right for the place...

[LeoLioness]

I can honestly say it's never crossed my mind to factor in how physically attractive the servers are when I am choosing where to go out to eat.

[im_nomad]

While a certain look does seem to go part and parcel with a younger, trendy / fashionable place, much in the same way as some bars, I most definitely not stop frequenting a place because they hired a few older servers or *gasp* overweight (and if this is what people are equating with unkempt, that's kind of offensive). More important to me is quality , knowledgeable and clean service. On the flipside, I don't want to sit in a restaurant feeling a little like I don't belong there because I'm not wearing this month's shoes / dress / etc or just strolled off a catwalk.

And I do not tip more based on hot factor.

[beevod]

As Freud said, "A hot waitress can compensate for so-so food."

[vanierstudent]

A good waiter is a friendlish, clean and professional waiter. I don't care about the looks.

[TheHuntress]

I don't think as to whether someone is classified as being good looking or not is really important, rather being well groomed is a different story. My husband and I frequent a particular cafe where all the staff were well presented (clean, pressed clothes, hair clean and secured, tasteful makeup etc.) except for one young girl. This girl is very pretty, indeed far more 'good looking' than the other waitstaff, however I hated being served by her. She was rude, careless, disinterested and sloppy. I don't care how pretty you are I do not want to see your underwear poking out from your yoga pants (hang on, you're wearing YOGA PANTS to work!?!) and I do not want to see your tacky tattoo, no matter how cool you think it is. The owner sat down with us for a glass of wine and was shocked to find the glasses hadn't been polished. On closer inspection he found all of the wine glasses had watermarks. He asked his pretty, young waitress why the glasses hadn't been polished and she replied "Oh, I don't do that anymore, it's too hard and no one cares". She no longer works for that establishment and frankly they're better off without her. So I believe appearance is important, but in the respect of being well presented and well groomed, not just for being attractive.

[TheHuntress]

I just need to add that I have nothing against being served by people with visible tattoos and piercings - indeed I have my own. It was just that the location of this particular waitresses tattoo was not supposed to be visible unless one was the the beach in a bikini.

[viperlush]

Exactly. I don't have a problem with tattoos on servers in general. Only when they are offensive or in a location that shouldn't be visible in "polite company". And really, a piercing is only going to make me lose my appetite if it isn't clean. But that is more an issue of over all cleanliness and overall presentation.

[DuchessNukem]

LOL. I'm guessing you're of the younger, and perhaps single, persuasion yourself, augie6. Those of us on the other side of 40, mostly don't care about our server's 'hottitudy-ness', just want clean, competent, attentive, pleasant people. (Tattoos/piercings not a problem, as long as they don't mind mine.)

[gaffk]

"Clean" being the operative word. I don't care if my server is tattoed, pierced, etc. But please look as if (s)he has showered\shaved and is wearing clean clothes.

[reatard]

Shaved? You're out of luck in a lot of neighborhoods in America these days.

[gaffk]

True . . .I should probably amend that to showered, hair "contained" and wearing clean/neat clothes in most places.

Although, upon further reflection, in high-end spots I really prefer no piercings. (Yes, I'm old.)

[funniduck]

I agree with you and i'm under 40. :)

[pinkprimp]

I'm in my early 20s and I want the same things!

[Augie6]

I am all of the above hahah.. The strange situation it most of the poeple that even noticed were over 40 and married hahah

[monku]

Is it possible the regular servers are "leaving" because the place going downhill in every aspect and it seems like the new hires are being picked from the bottom of the barrel because no one wants to work there?

[Quine]

"new hires are being picked from the bottom of the barrel"
OP said the new servers were "overweight , ageing " what age or weight makes one the bottom of the barrel? One of the great mind of this age, Steven Hawkings, by your definition then should be the crud from under the barrel by looks?

[monku]

I said "seems like" .....theoretical....I have no idea what the new hires look like or what the OP's idea of "attractiveness" is like.

[Augie6]

Quine, I think that I have mislead you some in my posting.. First these are not soley my opinion, it is from a larger group of people. But unfortunatley age and weight can and will play in a factor of a rest. immage

[silence9]

Hi... More than likely, one's mother, parent or a close family member served (and in the case of the maternal teat, created! ) one their first meals here on earth. I believe that how one felt about those caregivers (and how those caregivers felt about us) will have some correlation to how one views the necessity of 'good looks' for the adult individual when being served. Mommy was never on the cover of Elle, but if she smiled and tenderly wiped the misplaced soup from our lips, our hearts recall what our minds perhaps do not. I believe the facial expression of our servers speak more to us than their waistline...

[Jenny Ondioline]

There is a popular but somewhat polarizing restaurant in a city nearish me. Regular as clockwork, as soon as the place is mentioned, multiple people will immediately chime in that they refuse to eat there because the place is "filthy." When pressed to describe exactly how the place is filthy, they dissemble, and then either they disappear or they admit that they're really grossed out by the fact that the servers--whom I find entirely professional and polite, and often quite friendly and chatty--have visible tattoos and piercings.

[jgg13]

Let me guess, this place is known for toast and being friendly

[Naco]

lol i don't want some sad, fat poor serving me food

like, guh-roh-oss!

[Augie6]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far!!! The mystery place is a local "mom and pop" Italian place.. slightly upscale-- homemade dishes. Cute is such a subjective term so I will elaborate little more.. most of the servers were very well keep , in shape , younger ladies and guys. I can not agree more that the upkeep is more opportant that looks ...

All the reviews from the former patrons lead me to conclude, they asscociate the servers as the places identity . Now they are stuck with , (sorry to say ) overweight , ageing , servers... even if some are not bad at thier job.. they feel they are not in the same atmosphere

[Whinerdiner]

Wait - wait.
Are they actually suggesting that people who are "not bad at their jobs" should no longer have the opportunity to do them if they (gasp) get older?
If my server is pleasant and competent, I really don't care what she weighs. The hottie who spends his time texting instead of grabbing my check is more offensive to me than a professional with some grey hair.

[im_nomad]

This I definitely agree with. While not to equate young or attractive with "I couldn't care less", if the staff are more interested in hanging at the bar doing stuff like that, I have zero interest in returning. It's what was going on when my mother took a tumble in the restaurant, and we got a very aloof "bubbly" server. Ick.

[Augie6]

I never siad that at all.... I am saying the people at this place liked teh younger servers better..than the older.....It was a speed issue not age issue

Ohh the texting thing drives me nuts!!!! i text as much as the next person.. but if i do not have a drink and you are texting instead of pouring my water ... (getting up set just thinking about it lol )

[Whinerdiner]

And especially if the drink I'm waiting for isn't water...

[Jay F]

I ate at Lidia's a couple of weeks ago, and we had the cutest server, *who happened as well to be a perfect server*. We overtipped, possibly, 25%, but the service truly was as impeccable as the guy was adorable. All in all, it's nice to get great service from an attractive server, but I don't think he'd have seemed so attractive if the service hadn't matched.

So, a conditional "no" is my answer.

[invinotheresverde]

Is the name of this mystery restaurant Hooters?

[goodhealthgourmet]

Basicly, one of my fave restaurants have been going down hill termendously.. Started off with food
~~~~~~~~~~
if the food was good before, then i'm guessing no ;)

[invinotheresverde]

Very good point, friend.

[Quine]

Read my mind!

[goodhealthgourmet]

I will agree the new hires are not beatiful and slightly slopy [sic] for the type of place
~~~~~~~~~
looks are one thing, slovenliness is another. i don't care if you bear a striking resemblance to Hellboy as long as you keep yourself neat & clean. but if you're really sloppy or dirty-looking (or reek of cigarette smoke), then yes, i have a problem with it.

[beachmouse]

Reminds me of the local chain burrito place where the joke is that you need a minimum of five tattoos and three facial piercings to work there. But if you look past the eyebrow rings, the employees keep their work shirts clean, in good condition, and tucked in, fingernails are always clean, long hair is properly and attractively secured, and there are apparently corporate rules regarding the condition and colors of pants and shoes they wear to work that they have to follow.

Some of the employees are pretty, some are average, but all manage to come across as competent as you need to be for counter service Americanized Mexican and happy with their jobs.

[goodhealthgourmet]

yep - that's all fine with me. i'm far more concerned with your hygiene than i am with your body art & jewelry. unfortunately, i think it's also a matter of tolerance and what you've been exposed to. i know some close-minded people who see tattoos & piercings and automatically assume the person is a dirtbag. sadly judgmental and unfair, but reality.

[NicoleFriedman]

To assume someone is a "dirtbag" is very extreme. However, if you are willing to modify your body with tattoos and/or facial piercings other than earings, you are making a statement about how you want to be viewed by society. While tattoos and piercings have become more mainstream in the last few decades, they are still somewhat "anti-establishment". People who choose to do these things to themselves should know the consequences of their actions; no one is forcing them to inject the ink into their arms. That doesn't mean the consequence should be shunning, but that doesn't mean that you should be viewed as the height of "clean cut" and "professional" either. Try showing up to an interview with Donald Trump with a chin or lip piercing. And Donald Trump would be in the right to show you the door.

[TheHuntress]

I find that a little bit unfair. I choose to wear a facial piercing. I had the jewellery made for it especially in gold with a rare type of sapphire from my own collection. I am a Registered Nurse and I believe (and have had feedback from my patients and colleagues via my superiors) that I work in a very professional manner and all of my actions can be viewed as being the height of professional. I get many curious questions from my patients about my piercing as it is a bit unusual and due to my darker features many assume it is a cultural thing. No one forced me to put it there, I choose to wear it but I am also viewed as being at the height of my workplaces professional standards. Oh yeah, I graduated in the top 5 of my class, have received academic awards and commendation from the Dean of my university on several occasions. I also work in the top tertiary hospital of my state in a demanding area. No employer is showing me the door anytime soon with my professional achievements so far.

[NicoleFriedman]

TheHuntress- Being in the top 5 of your class in an incredible achievement; I know because a good friend of mine went through medical school and I saw the torture up close. I'm just being honest- I would rather not have a nurse or a doctor with any facial piercings. I admit this is a bias of mine. I do associate them with unprofessionalism and in the medical field, with poor hygiene. To be fair, I am putting my life in my doctor's hands.

[TheHuntress]

You have every right to request a health professional or a server without visible piercings or tattoos, if that is what would make you feel comfortable. I just know that I provide professional care, am (ironically) the hand hygeine nazi of my ward and have saved my own fair share of lives - piercing or no piercing. If I honestly thought I could be better at what I do without it I would remove it; I take my role very seriously. To be fair having a piercing does not change ones ability to save lives or provide good service.

At the end of the day we all have our own opinions to which we are all entitled - it would be very boring otherwise :)

[chickenbruiser]

In the same way... if someone chooses to alter their appearance by dying there hair or getting hair plugs or doing any type of cosmetic surgery... try showing up to a dump trump interview and he'll open the door....????

[Quine]

And Let Joan Rivers Win Top Celebrity Apprentice!
I do not think that anyone can argue that anyone else has more body modifications for cosmetic sake that Joan. Bad straw man, sorry Nicole.

And TheHuntress shows that being the best of the best is NOT altered by how one chooses to present theirselves.

[chickenbruiser]

+1 and +1 to Quine and TheHuntress

:)

[Quine]

TY. Can I now show you a spin off thread started on this board

[chickenbruiser]

sure
what's "TY"
excuse my ignorance

[Quine]

De nada. TY is Thank you. Sorry.

[TheHuntress]

Shucks, Quine, thank you for the compliment, but I am certainly not the best of the best. I work with some truly amazing and aspirational people and I hope with experience I can one day be as good as they are.

I just don't believe in judging a book by its cover. I have never had a patient judge me for my piercing. Maybe one day it will happen, but I hope that the care that I provide them will change that judgement. In keeping with the thread I think importance lay within people taking self pride, rather than being 'cute' or 'attractive'. One can still be professional and provide good service regardless of age, weight etc. However being clean and neat goes a long way in the service industry.

[alkapal]

i'm looking for the piercings on your photo. where are they again?

[TheHuntress]

It's on the bridge of my nose, in between my eyes. It's probably difficult to see because I have olive skin and the ring is gold and set with a pinkish/orange sapphire - it doesn't actually contrast against my skin. I do tend to get a very positive response to it, like I mentioned most people seem to think it is cultural and ask questions out of curiosity. I have also found that within the context of the speciality in which I work our demographic is young adults, particularly men, and for them it helps them feel a bit more comfortable and able to relate to me, rather than being a big, scary, clinical looking nurse. I also find that us Aussies are a pretty laid back bunch in general and are less likely to care about such things (within a reasonable context) over here.

[alkapal]

maybe you are hypnotizing them. "here, gaze into my sapphire and forget abut your excruciating pain." ;-).

[TheHuntress]

:D I never thought of that.

[purple bot]

I'm still not seeing how you connect tattoos with being "unprofessional". If I was a server (a "professional" one, at that) or anything else, for that matter -- my tattoos will not affect how or if I perform my job. Hygiene is important of course, but saying I'm unprofessional because I have tattoos and you don't like them is just plain silly. What if I'm a blonde, and a "bleached" one at that (the horror!), and you don' t like fake blond hair? What if I have a ring through my lip? Does it matter that I have an advanced degree in wine? Am I still "unprofessional" if I have both?

(I have none of those, but you see my point.)

If Donald Trump wants to show me to the door, or request a "clean-cut" preppie in my stead, it would be his loss. Nevermind that the man is not exactly the pinnacle of masculine beauty himself -- really, we're supposed to take the hair seriously? But we should dismiss with disgust a nose piercing?

[Augie6]

pruple bot.. I think the stigma from tatoos and piercing can come from alot of different places.. In some older generations, tatoos were considered more of a rebelous outlaw mark rather than today's art expression. Pericings were not even a thought to them

[NicoleFriedman]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do see having a lip ring as unprofessional. There is a big difference between dyed hair and facial piercings. I'm not out to stymie anyone's personal creativity; how people want to dress is their business. However, if there wasn't a line of profesisonal appearance that can be crossed, then we should all be going to work in sandals and short shorts.... but we don't.

[alkapal]

lip ring, nose ring, pierced tongue -- all unprofessional in MY OPINION.

[invinotheresverde]

Since Nicole opted not to answer my question, perhaps you can. What's the difference between a hole in my ear and a hole in my nose?

No, I don't have any facial piercings.

[dump123456789]

"What's the difference between a hole in my ear and a hole in my nose?"

It's probably a bias coming from the fact that discharges from the earlobe are much less common that those from the nose.

[reatard]

I don't see how discharge from the nose is any less gross or more hygienic from a server who doesn't have a piercing from one that does.

[dump123456789]

It isn't. However, having an obvious puncture in one's nose may cause people to make associations with punctures in general, which usually involve discharges. Since the nose is commonly associated with discharges related to ill health, that can create a negative mental link for some diners. No puncture, no association, no negative mental link.

I'm conjecturing that it's a subconcious association, hence the use of the word "bias".

[invinotheresverde]

Are you talking about ick coming out of the hole itself or the nostrils?

[dump123456789]

Nostrils. As I said above, I think it might be a subconcious mental link.

[small h]

<What's the difference between a hole in my ear and a hole in my nose?>

Acclimation. Most people are used seeing pierced ears (and in 10ish years, they'll be used to seeing pierced noses & eyebrows, too). Chowhound circa 1937 would have been full of "And my waitress was wearing PANTS! Can you IMAGINE? I thought it completely unprofessional. Not to mention indecent."

[invinotheresverde]

That's kind of along what I'd been thinking. It's simple bias based on nothing, really.

[dump123456789]

Do you think pierced noses and eyebrows will have the same kind of staying power as pants on women ? Because I've been noticing a decrease in that among my students (except for the South Asians).

[small h]

I think the small jeweled nose stud or the skinny ring through the eyebrow is probably here to stay. But the big ol' spiky-chainy stuff does seem to be abating, as you say. I spent several years gazing out over a sea of porcupines in my own classes; I'm seeing a lot less hardware these days.

[reatard]

I don't think they even let women in the NYU dorms if they don't have a facial piercing.

[small h]

When you go to get your ID picture taken, you can get a hole drilled through your face right then and there. It's a real time saver, and a valuable service. (Full disclosure: Five holes in my own earlobes, and one ankle tattoo. And I couldn't care less how someone else chooses to decorate her body.)

[dump123456789]

I agree that the nose stud will probably stay, but I don't think the nose or eyebrow ring will. The difference being the former can be varied (while still being discreet), whereas the latter cannot. The lack of variation eventually gets monotonous and becomes a cliche ("poser"), rather than a form of self-expression.

[invinotheresverde]

Out of curiosity, would you mind waxing poetic about the difference between dyed hair and facial piercings?

[dump123456789]

Dyed hair doesn't remind one of Pinhead in Hellraiser.

[invinotheresverde]

I think I'm too young to get that reference. ;)

[dump123456789]

Well, that certainly makes me feel old. It's from a 1987 horror movie. Google Image "pinhead hellraiser". (It wouldn't be appropriate to link an image here.)

[invinotheresverde]

So, I Googled. Sorry, but a discreet stud in the nose doesn't much resemble that dude to me ( I know you were being extreme, but still).

[dump123456789]

Yes, I was just being silly. And I don't think nose studs would remind anyone of Pinhead, but eyebrow rings/barbells, lip rings, tongue barbells and earlobe extenders might.

[Miss Needle]

By posting this on a food board, I will bet that the majority of CHers will say that looks don't matter. But I'm sure there are plenty of people who will say that they do. I've known plenty of people who would go to this place for mediocre food because it's staffed by models.

[jgg13]

I honestly feel that I don't notice this sort of thing ever, but you're right - I know many folks who do and avoid some of the spots I like because the staff (or even the clientele!) isn't hot enough

[NicoleFriedman]

Or boobs. As long as the women are decent looking the guys will go for boobage:}

[Harters]

Doesnt matter to me. I go for the food.

Couldnt care less if the server is "cute". Do care if they're not good at their job.

[purple bot]

Is this a serious question?

[Augie6]

You know purple.. as dumb as it sounds .. I heard that from at least 30 people that were die hard regulars of this place.... I am talking age group 20 -70 all said the same thing.. the servers look horrible and trashy now.. I reall like _____ they were soo cute.

I will agree I have gone to some place because of a cute waitress, but would not leave a place because of that... I have done some advertising bussines with that place in the past I watned some feedback on here.

[Quine]

You actually know, to solicit from, "at least 30 people" opinions of this place? I am doubting.
I am not a beautiful person, probably even ugly, but I am neat and clean and I know my food. Would I prefer someone like me as a server or a hottie-pottie dumb as a rock? Well, can you guess?

[Pylon]

I think your comment "I am neat and clean" would be the end of the discussion for me. I want a server who knows the menu, can talk the wine list, and doesn't make me uncomfortable when I think they might be handling my food.

If the OP is equating "cute" with "clean", then yes, it matters. Otherwise, I'd say no.

[Augie6]

I know alot more than 30 people that go there.. I ran there marketing campaign and live 2 miles of the place..

[ingaU]

http://zitto.ce.ms/news/content?eva_a... Eva angelina office

[bobbert]

Unfortunatly, presentation matters, from plating to how well the FOH dresses. Given the choice between good service from a less attractive server or bad service from a more attractive server, I'd go with the better service every time but all things being equal, I'd rather be served by Margo (sp) Hemmingway rather than Ernest. Hooters doesn't have lines because of the food. Men, I'm sorry to admit, are pigs.

[NicoleFriedman]

I'm taking this question seriously because like it or not we do often judge people on their appearance. Do I personally care if someone has model looks? No. But I do care if someone is sloppy or has greasy hair. If a person doesn't care enough to be polished and put together for work, how am I supposed to assume they'll take their job seriously? Also, I admit it's a personal bias of mine but I do not want to be staring at my waiter's gazillion tattoos. I understand to expect this if I'm in the village but it does strike me as unprofessional. Don't get me started on facial piercings! Yes, I realize there is a difference between seeing a chin piercing on my waiter at a hole in the wall versus at Le Cirque but still... forget a restaurant setting... it's just gross. I guess it also has something to do with the fact that I've had students fiddle with their piercings in ways that are often unhygenic.... shudder.... :}

[invinotheresverde]

Is there a valid difference between facial piercings and ear piercings being "gross"?

For the record, I have no facial piercings. I'm just curious.