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How crucial is enamel cast iron vs. plain? Anyone just use plain for almost everything?

c
Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 10:21 AM

I say this because I have a crush on the Lodge plain skillet with non heating handle and helper handle. And I already have a cast iron Dutch oven. What would buying a Staub enamel pan or two really get me? Is tomato really noticeably iron-tinged with just plain cast iron?

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  1. Chemicalkinetics RE: Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 11:17 AM

    I personally prefer plain/bare cast iron cookware. In fact, I switched from enameled cast iron coowkare to bare cast iron cookware. Some people think bare cast iron cookware require more care. Others, like me, feel enameled cookware are the ones require more care. In my experience enameled surface easily stained and it takes too long to clean after each cooking session.

    The iron tinged taste is subjective, I think. It brothers some people, but I don't feel it from a seasoned cast iron cookware. I think only you can determine this. Try to cook your tomato recipe once in the bare cast iron cookware and then maybe cook it in a stainless steel cookware. That ought to give you the comparison.

    1. paulj RE: Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 11:28 AM

      Enamel makes most sense for a dutch oven that is used for long braising. That kind of cooking can eat away at the seasoning on a plain cast iron. But for many skillet uses plain cast iron is great. Two that come to mind a cooking steaks (and other searing), and baking cornbread.

      19 Replies
      1. re: paulj
        greygarious RE: paulj Jan 30, 2011 11:56 AM

        Have to disagree. I have a bare cast iron dutchie that for decades was used only for pot roast and my mother's goulash, neither or which had tomato. They both had onion, garlic, bay leaf, and cloves. The metal has absorbed the flavors - even if washed in soapy water, it still has the aroma. It makes better braises (develops flavors better) than my enameled dutchies; I use the latter when including acidic ingredients. I've made swiss steak in a naked cast iron skillet, and while I do taste the iron a little, I don't think it ruins the dish. Chemicalkinetics' idea of cooking sauce in naked cast iron and stainless should determine whether the difference is important to you.

        1. re: greygarious
          paulj RE: greygarious Jan 30, 2011 01:59 PM

          Can you elaborate on that 'develops flavors better' bit?

          1. re: paulj
            greygarious RE: paulj Jan 30, 2011 02:38 PM

            It appears to me that the food picks up flavoring from whatever else has been coked and imparted some of its essence to the metal. I tried making the same goulash in an enameled dutch oven only once - it was not up to par, so I went back to using the bare cast iron that had seen 30 years' worth of goulash and pot roast. Possibly the difference is the iron itself and not the years of onion, garlic, cloves, and bay leaves - I really wouldn't want to swear either way. But in these dishes, I do not taste iron the way I do if I cook something with tomato or wine in my bare cast iron skillet.

            1. re: greygarious
              d
              dixiegal RE: greygarious Mar 9, 2011 03:31 AM

              I agree about the flavoring of well seasoned CI. I think that is the charm of it. It is also why I prefer bacon fat to season with. Though I often use just lard. I also prefer my meat dishes to be prepared in the Cast Iron instead of the enameld cast iron. I only use my enameld cast iron for soups, stews, and sauces with tomato.
              Although I did make a great beef stew in my non enamled cast iron and really prefered the taste to my enamled one. The tomato in it was minimal, unlike my vegetable beef soup that has lots of tomato juice in it.

              There was a little wear to my season coat on the bare cast iron with the stew, but it was easily fixed by smearing on some fat and baking in the oven.

              I also have two of the lodge loaf pans that I fix meat loaf in. It works great, I just will re season after using for meatloaf a time or two.

              I just do not notice any damage to the seasoning layers unless something acidic is cooked in it for a long time.

              I use my CI dutch oven for green beans and turnip greans. The flavor from the baked on pork fat seasoning is great for adding a touch of flavor for vegetables.

        2. re: paulj
          i
          iyc_nyc RE: paulj Jan 30, 2011 12:12 PM

          Chem or others, has this been your experience with bare CI - that braising for a long time eats away at the seasoning?

          1. re: iyc_nyc
            greygarious RE: iyc_nyc Jan 30, 2011 01:49 PM

            Definitely not.

            1. re: iyc_nyc
              c oliver RE: iyc_nyc Jan 30, 2011 02:01 PM

              Nope. Anything I'm braising has fat in it and that keeps the seasoning just fine. Clean it up as usual.

              1. re: iyc_nyc
                paulj RE: iyc_nyc Jan 30, 2011 02:21 PM

                The effect of any wet cooking on the seasoning is more noticeable with a newish pan, and much less so if the seasoning is well developed.

                1. re: iyc_nyc
                  Chemicalkinetics RE: iyc_nyc Jan 30, 2011 02:42 PM

                  Not a major problem for me. I suppose if all one do is to braise in acidic solution all the time, then it may be become a problem, but it should not matter if you cook all kind of other things.

                  1. re: iyc_nyc
                    p
                    pericolosa RE: iyc_nyc Feb 7, 2011 03:05 PM

                    i have several times braised in a barenaked wok using a sweet n sour sauce containing vinegar or wine and each time i do this it has eaten away a good seasoning built up from many sessions of deep and stir frying within a couple of hours.

                    1. re: pericolosa
                      greygarious RE: pericolosa Feb 7, 2011 03:36 PM

                      Mankind has been cooking in bare cast iron for millennia. Acid-containing dishes like Boeuf Bourguignon and Coq au Vin significantly predate the creation of the enameled iron vessel.

                      1. re: greygarious
                        paulj RE: greygarious Feb 7, 2011 04:32 PM

                        Iron wasn't the only cooking pot material. Earthernware has been around longer, and can work nicely for braised dishes and stews.

                        While not ancient, it's interesting to note how many enameled pots the Two Fat Ladies use. Most look like enamel on steel, as opposed to expensive enamel on cast irion.

                        1. re: greygarious
                          paulj RE: greygarious Feb 7, 2011 05:21 PM

                          The 'old recipe' for Coq au vin in 'The New Larousse Gastronmique':
                          'Cut chicken ... Heat diced lean pork and button onions 'in an earthernware pot' etc .

                          For Boeuf a la bourguignonne it recommends a 'daubiere', which it defines as casserole of stoneware, earthenware or tinned copper for the cooking of daubes.

                          It also specifies an earthenware vessel for cassoulet.

                          Under braising pan it lists tinned copper, nickel, aluminum, enamelled cast-iron, earthenware and fireproof porcelain.

                          1. re: greygarious
                            kaleokahu RE: greygarious Mar 8, 2011 08:04 PM

                            greygarious: With respect, you can truthfully say some lucky Chinese families have been cooking in CI for millenia, but not in the West. Maybe 300 years, give or take, since Darby.

                            But you are right about too much being made of barenaked CI flavoring food. After a lot of cooking and useless sc%$wing around, I cannot say that I've had one dish thrown off by virtue of a lack of enamel on cast iron--plenty of other reasons, though.

                            OK flame me for this, but I think the only *practical* reason for ECI is ease of cleanup, maybe it's a little more nonstick if you were behind the bleachers smoking during Seasoning 101 class.

                            1. re: kaleokahu
                              KaimukiMan RE: kaleokahu Mar 9, 2011 04:50 AM

                              I'm not sure about that kaleokahu. There are numerous old testament references to iron pots being used, including a passage that ridicules one tribe that 'washes their iron pots with water.' Guess things haven't changed much in the past three or four millennia.

                              1. re: KaimukiMan
                                Chemicalkinetics RE: KaimukiMan Mar 9, 2011 05:05 AM

                                Did they wage war over it (cast iron treatment procedure)?

                                1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                  Passadumkeg RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 9, 2011 05:17 AM

                                  Which end of a boiled egg did they open?

                                  1. re: Passadumkeg
                                    Chemicalkinetics RE: Passadumkeg Mar 9, 2011 06:03 AM

                                    Voiceover:

                                    The same people who bought you ceramic knives because stainless steel knives just impart too much metallic taste and impurities into your foods. Don't you want to able to dance with your daugther in her wedding? Ceramic knives -- because you deserve a healthy life.

                                    P.S.: I understand there are many arguments for ceramic knives, but this one is routinely used.

                                2. re: KaimukiMan
                                  kaleokahu RE: KaimukiMan Mar 9, 2011 07:57 AM

                                  E KaimukiMan, Shoots:

                                  Iron pots referred to before the technology existed to actually cast iron could only be forged iron, hiki no?

                                  I think the Hittites originated smelting of black iron (again, in the West) around 1500 BC. But a LOOOONG time passed before anyone there had furnaces and bellows big enough to liquefy iron for casting. This is because there is a big gap between iron as a complete solid and a pourable liquid. You can forge it above 800F, but not cast it until above 2,300F. It took the West almost 3,000 years to get there (16th C A.D.), while the Chinese beat them by about a millenium.

                                  But I'm sure you're right about the first iron pots--forged or cast--being the subjects of seasoning debates just like those that rage here on CH.

                      2. v
                        vic383 RE: Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 11:49 AM

                        I have both enameled cast iron, LC and Staub, and a Lodge skillet.
                        IMO, they both have something they do best. The bare cast iron sears well at high heat, carmelizes sugar very easily and is great for baking. I made an apple tart tatin last night and it carmelized quicker and easier than my enameled pan.
                        The enameled cast iron is great for slow brasing, simmering soups or anything with tomato, vinegar or wine.
                        If you can afford it, I would recommend having at least one of each.

                        1 Reply
                        1. re: vic383
                          gansu girl RE: vic383 Jan 31, 2011 04:42 PM

                          This is exactly what I was going to recommend, but I'd add then that I'd also get (finances permitting) a large stainless skillet to cook you acidic foods - I personally don't like tomatoes, citrus, etc. in my straight-up cast iron Lodge skillets - for those dishes I use my beloved All-Clad skillet. My LC Dutch ovens are for soups, braises, bread . . . whatever else is low, slow or in gigantic quantity.

                          GG
                          http://www.semisweetonline.com

                        2. a
                          Aunt Jenny RE: Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 11:53 AM

                          I have and use both, but I'm careful not to use plain cast iron for tomato recipes or other acid ingredients (taste and iron-leaching issues as above). The only hard and fast rule is NOT to store high-acid foods in plain cast iron cookware; you will definitely get that "off" taste, and the chance of damaging the seasoning on your pot is much higher.

                          1 Reply
                          1. re: Aunt Jenny
                            c oliver RE: Aunt Jenny Jan 30, 2011 02:02 PM

                            That "iron-leaching" can be a good thing. Provides a source of additional iron for anyone who needs some and doesn't hurt others unless they have a medical issue with storing too much of it.

                          2. JuniorBalloon RE: Cinnamon Jan 30, 2011 02:06 PM

                            I find that my enameled cast iron lodge skillet does a better job of sauteing vegetables. They get a nice browning that tastes delicious.

                            jb

                            6 Replies
                            1. re: JuniorBalloon
                              c oliver RE: JuniorBalloon Jan 30, 2011 02:10 PM

                              And regular CI doesn't do the same? Some people only use CI skillets instead of woks.

                              1. re: c oliver
                                b
                                blackpointyboots RE: c oliver Jan 30, 2011 02:19 PM

                                Never thought to use my cast iron pan to do veggies. Will have to try that since I don't have a wok.

                                I don't own any enamel cast iron and do various slow braise dishes with tomatoes and red wine and have not had issues.

                                1. re: blackpointyboots
                                  greygarious RE: blackpointyboots Jan 30, 2011 02:46 PM

                                  Until recent years, there were no bargain versions of enameled cast iron, and not everyone could afford it. Bare cast iron cookware has been in use for centuries so it can't be a *total* deal-breaker as regards acidic ingredients. It's nice to have an enameled piece but you don't need to forego making a dish just because it contains acid and you only have a bare pot/pan.

                                2. re: c oliver
                                  JuniorBalloon RE: c oliver Jan 30, 2011 03:06 PM

                                  I haven't tried a regular CI, but it is far better than the non stick pan I used to use and is better then the carbon steel pan that I've tried it with.

                                  jb

                                  1. re: JuniorBalloon
                                    a
                                    Aunt Jenny RE: JuniorBalloon Feb 14, 2011 12:50 PM

                                    If your un-enameled CI pan is beautifully seasoned and maintained, it's nearly as non-stick as teflon (I gave up on my wok years ago because I never had a stovetop hot enough to do it justice, while I can get CI screaming hot enough on even a middling burner to produce excellent searing)... but I still wouldn't store food in it, for the sake of both the pan and the food (I get enough iron as it is, c oliver-- tho' you make an excellent point-- it's the metallic taste that puts me off). Mostly, I value the seasoning on my CI pots/pans too much to risk their "health."

                                  2. re: c oliver
                                    gansu girl RE: c oliver Jan 31, 2011 04:43 PM

                                    that'd be me - plain cast iron instead of wok. great char.

                                    GG
                                    http://www.semiseetonline.com

                                3. k
                                  kayandallie RE: Cinnamon Feb 17, 2011 06:02 AM

                                  I use my cast iron skillets for everything skillet. I inherited some and bought maybe one. I have one that won't season right but use it anyway. I use an enameled dutch oven but would use an iron one if I had one.
                                  So far as leaching iron, my grandmother was slightly anemic and in the old days, they liked iron frying pans for the iron.
                                  I love my cast iron skillets; wouldn't get rid of them for anything. i figure my kids will fight over them when it comes time for them to be inherited, hee hee.

                                  1. Passadumkeg RE: Cinnamon Feb 17, 2011 06:14 AM

                                    All my cookware is old Norwegian Hoyang produced. I only own cast iron skillets, have 2 small and 1 medium sauce pan, copper clad and 1 Dutch oven. I use the Dutch oven as a wok, and for braising/baking/roasting everything. Reduces PMS too.

                                    1. c
                                      cutipie721 RE: Cinnamon Mar 8, 2011 07:25 PM

                                      So I was a retard and cooked Ina Garten's grilled tequila LIME chicken in my one-year old carbon steel pan. http://barefootcontessa.com/recipes.a...

                                      I even dried the meat surface with paper towel, but I guess that didn't stop the meat juice from eating away the seasoning.

                                      I know, my pan looks pretty ugly to begin with, uneven seasoning and all that - at least no part of it is sticky. :-) More iron or not, I'd rather not ingest any carbonized fat.

                                       
                                      9 Replies
                                      1. re: cutipie721
                                        d
                                        Dave5440 RE: cutipie721 Mar 8, 2011 07:33 PM

                                        I'd rather not ingest any carbonized fat.

                                        Now that I have never ever heard of, please explain,

                                        1. re: Dave5440
                                          c
                                          cutipie721 RE: Dave5440 Mar 8, 2011 07:36 PM

                                          Seasoning.

                                          I know, technically it should be called polymerized fat. Polymerized or carbonized fat, it's still a substance that I probably shouldn't be ingesting.

                                        2. re: cutipie721
                                          Chemicalkinetics RE: cutipie721 Mar 8, 2011 08:05 PM

                                          I cannot tell for sure. It looks like you have some seasoning stripped off at the pan cooking surface, but also some carbonized fat/protein deposits around the pan on the slanted side. If you are worry about excessive carbonized protein/fat, then just scrub it a bit. Use plastic scraper, wooden spatula, or old credit card if you want to be gentle. Use steel wool or metal utensil if you want to be rough. Season the pan again and you are good to go. I recently had a stripped spot on my DeBuyer carbon steel pan. I seasoned it on stovetop and it is all good now.

                                          1. re: Chemicalkinetics
                                            d
                                            Dave5440 RE: Chemicalkinetics Mar 8, 2011 08:16 PM

                                            Can you explain this
                                            http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_a_fat_...

                                            1. re: Dave5440
                                              Chemicalkinetics RE: Dave5440 Mar 8, 2011 08:31 PM

                                              Actually the question was stated in a "non-conclusive" way, so I thought the answer given is very good The question asked what happen if the carbons on the fat molecules (probably meant fatty acid portion) start to bond to hydrogen atoms. The problem is that carbons on a fatty acid are always bonding to hydrogen, the question is how many or how saturated:

                                              http://legacy.owensboro.kctcs.edu/gca...

                                              The question probably meant carbon atoms start to form MORE bonds to hydrogens. Tthat would mean breaking more carbon-carbon double bonds and forming more single carbon-carbon and single carbon-hydrogen bond. If the fatty acid only had one double bond, then converting this last double bond to single bond will change the monounsaturated fatty acid to saturated fatty acid (bottom figure to top figure):

                                              http://legacy.owensboro.kctcs.edu/gca...

                                              To be clear, this is only true when the very last double bond is converted to single bond. If there were three double bonds in the beginning, converting only one of them will yield two double bonds. Therefore the starting and ending products are polyunsaturated fatty acids.

                                          2. re: cutipie721
                                            kaleokahu RE: cutipie721 Mar 8, 2011 08:14 PM

                                            cutiepie721: Wow, that really messed that pan up--dark side of the moon!

                                            But that's the deal with carbon steel, right? You can basically sandblast the craters away, and it takes a seasoning again wikiwiki.

                                            And with respect, what's your grille look like? I mean it was a grille recipe, is that right?

                                            1. re: cutipie721
                                              paulj RE: cutipie721 Mar 8, 2011 08:42 PM

                                              I don't see much - if any- seasoning on that pan. I assume the lightest spots are food that needs to be scraped away (feel will tell you). My pan is nearly black, some parts shinier than others, but all pretty dark.

                                              Ina's recipe is just pan grilling. The meat shouldn't be stewing in its own juices.

                                              1. re: cutipie721
                                                c
                                                cutipie721 RE: cutipie721 Mar 9, 2011 07:01 AM

                                                It's a Debuyer carbon plus. The silver/white spots are not stuff stuck on the pan, it is seasoning being removed from the pan. I'm fine, no sobbing and crying over it ;-) I plan to leave it as it is. I've already cooked something else in it before *ding* I realized it was the lime in the marinade that ate the seasoning up. The silver spots are now blonde. I don't have the time and money to spend on giving the pan a spa. I'm sure one year later it'll all be fine.

                                                Chem - I'm not losing any sleep on what's happening on the slanted sides. It's not sticky.

                                                Kaleo - yes it's a grill recipe, but I don't have a grill nor a grill pan. I can't think of any reason why I shouldn't cook this chicken in a skillet with some oil. I hate washing grills btw.

                                                paulj - you're right, there is probably not enough seasoning on my pan since 1) i never gave it any official 6 layers of coatings, just potato peels and one layer of hot oil and 2) I used it maybe once a week for the past year. I can feel the difference between the dark spots and the silver spots. I would throw this pan out immediately if someone tells me I must season it 6 times in a self-cleaning oven.

                                                No, I don't mind going the slow route and wait 10+ years before lime and pan can meet again - I have other pans to use meanwhile.

                                                There was no visible liquid on the pan during cooking. The color on the chicken was lovely. There were no black flecks on the meat, just some beautiful golden edges. I have no other suspect other than the whiffs of meat juice.

                                                The thing is, the seasoning on cast iron is black on black. How can you tell for sure what happens after long cooking?

                                                So if someone manages to cook acidic food without it eating all the way down, then you're really not getting much iron out of the pan, but rather a whole bunch of burnt fat.

                                                1. re: cutipie721
                                                  Chemicalkinetics RE: cutipie721 Mar 9, 2011 09:40 AM

                                                  "The thing is, the seasoning on cast iron is black on black."

                                                  Actually real cast iron not black, but gray. So when it goes from gray to brown to black from seasoning.

                                              2. t
                                                takadi RE: Cinnamon Mar 8, 2011 08:35 PM

                                                I switched to enamel because I kept tasting the seasoning of the pan in my food. I know, it might be because it was a new pot, but I'm not gonna wait for another year just to have good tasting food

                                                1. Passadumkeg RE: Cinnamon Mar 9, 2011 04:17 AM

                                                  Being a simpleton has its advantages. I just merrily cook away in my ol' cast iron, listening to KANW 89.1, the home of New Mexican Music, dancing in blissful ignorance. Cast iron iz all I gots and all I use.
                                                  What me worry?
                                                  Alfred E. Dumkeg

                                                  1. g
                                                    garlic17 RE: Cinnamon Mar 9, 2011 05:02 AM

                                                    I've been collecting CI for years: new, vintage, thrift store, street discards. I don't use them for a long simmering tomato sauce...yes, uses up the seasoning. For the lingering tastes issue, I have a dedicated fish CI so the fish tastes stay only in that pan and I can put pan in oven or broiler. My three cornstick pans turn out a great product. Recently, I was lucky enough to find a large nicely seasoned square grill pan on the street...one's trash, another's treasure.

                                                    1. n
                                                      natschultz RE: Cinnamon Mar 12, 2011 01:25 PM

                                                      Cast iron vs. Earthenware - historically, acidic dishes are connected to the Mediterranean regions where pottery was very popular, whereas fatty dishes were more common in Northern Europe where cast iron was popular. The French historically used copper and cast iron. Therefore, in my opinion you can get away with just a good well-seasoned cast iron frying pan and a large copper Saucier. Enameled cast iron is newer, and a good sized cast iron dutch oven is better for acidic dishes, so an ideal collection would have this as well. So, in theory a perfect kitchen can be had with just 3 pieces of cookware, each perfect for different styles of cooking.

                                                      That being said, I would kill for an Emile Henry Tagine!

                                                      Personally I do not cook tomato-based dishes in my cast iron, but I have no problem adding tomatoes to an omlet. Although I do fry sauerkraut in cast iron - nothing is better!

                                                      BTW: If you are eyeing the Lodge skillet, I'd say you are better off with an antique equivalent simply because the Lodge (and all new cast iron) has a rough surface that is hard to season. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work. This thread has great info on seasoning new Lodge http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/4338...

                                                      1 Reply
                                                      1. re: natschultz
                                                        t
                                                        takadi RE: natschultz Mar 12, 2011 10:29 PM

                                                        I completely agree with you! I'd actually was thinking about this for a really long time and after lots of research, I basically came to the same conclusion as you, except maybe I would add a really good wok to the mix. Actually the ideal pan would be all copper with stainless steel or tin lining since copper has higher heat capacity than iron AND higher conductivity. It basically is the perfect material. The problem is that it's freaking expensive and doesn't take abuse like cast iron. Right now I have a bare cast iron skillet, a enameled dutch oven...all that's missing is a really nice copper saucier. Now if only I had two or three hundred bucks lying around...

                                                      2. LaureltQ RE: Cinnamon Mar 12, 2011 05:40 PM

                                                        I have both, but growing up, my dad ONLY had naked cast iron. He did all sorts of great dishes, even full of acid in both his skillet and DO. I have both enameled cast iron and naked and I prefer using my naked CI because it's MUCH easier to clean and keep looking nice. The only reason that I don't use my naked CI DO for cooking more often is that it was a Xmas gift from my husband (I asked for a Cast Iron Dutch Oven and he bought me a camping one!!!) and it has feet, so it doesn't work on my flat top stove.

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