Lunch vs. Dinner - A question of Service and "Experience"

[uhockey]

Will be visiting Paris in April - bringing my sister for the museums and culture and enjoying some dining with Delucacheesemonger and hopefully some of you other Paris hounds. Obviously my planning is still in the very early stages and my leanings are certainly towards fine dining here in the United States, but with that noted I want to experience everything from boulangerie and fromagerie to cafe and bistro to L'Arperge and Pierre Gagnaire during my visit.

I won't annoy you with a "where should I eat in Paris" or "Critique my itenerary" style thread - My question is more one of "style" regarding the restaurants at the 3-Star Level. I obviously realize the difference in price and course number between lunch and dinner, what interests me is how they differ in terms of service, experience, and "wow" factor - if the dinner offers that extra "something" that makes it worth the price.

Also, for a restaurant like Ledoyen, Le Cinq, or Guy Savoy (merely examples) what is the average duration for a meal - Lunch vs. Dinner?

Cheers and thanks to all.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[Foodie Froggy]

I have tried 3 high-end restaurants in paris so far (Pré Catelan, les Ambassadeurs and le Bristol) and we have deliberately chosen to go there for lunch because what they call "business menu" is a great opportunity to taste an amazing cuisine without breaking the bank. Of course, it is a set menu with fewer choices than the evening à La Carte (in most cases, you have to choose betwwen two to three dishes in each category - starter, main dish and dessert). My husband and I simply take a day off so we can linger at table as long as we want. In my experience, the service and the food has always been amazing with all the little "tralalas" as we say in french : the amuse-bouches, the mini appetizers, the mignardises and so on,... I think there is no big difference in terms of food and service while there is a huge gap in terms of price !!
The duration of a meal is what you decide : for me between two to three hours.
Anne

[uhockey]

Without sounding "cheap" (as I most certainly am not,) the a la carte prices on many of Paris' best restaurants induce quite the sticker shock - even if we went at dinner I'm rather certain we'd be doing prixe fixe or the tasting menu. There are certainly a few places where an a la carte item will call out to me and I'll make the splurge, but generally I think the kitchen puts the most effort into their tasting menus.

That noted, my sister is still in art school and as such does not have the finances for too many over the top meals, so the goal for at least a couple of the meals will to maximize the experience at a "reasonable" cost and in that case I think lunch at Le Cinq and Michel Rostang look like great deals - perhaps L'Arperge as well.

I know Stefan has asked for assistance in getting a L'Astrance reservation while I am in town (and thanks to those who may be able to help) and I think the other spot I most want to experience dinner is Pierre Gagnaire. Aside from those, it is the L'Ami Jean, L'Ami Louis, and more traditional spots that interest me the most.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[johannabanana]

As has been noted before, don't do prix fixe at l'Ami Jean -- instead order the more classic, traditional fare off the menu and blackboard. For us, a lunch at l'Arpege is basically unmissable whenever we're in Paris. Say you want the set lunch but ask them to bring you whatever they want to ("carte blanche").

[uhockey]

"Carte Blanche" and "set lunch" would seem to be polar opposites to me - is the "set" merely a pricepoint? If so, how much?

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[johannabanana]

They charge you the standard 130 euros per person but act in accordance with their whims, which I imagine are partly dictated by what other people are ordering. No doubt there's overlap with the standard set lunch menu but also considerable variation. We've been twice and on the second time had an even more expansive (but no more expensive) 14-course meal.

[uhockey]

Lunch reservation booked for 4/11. Cheers and thanks for the information. :-)

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[amrx]

Actually one can split a la carte dishes without extra cost at some 3 Michelin rosette restaurants. I have had half portions even when dining alone ( Guy Savoy and Ledoyen, for example) .

[uhockey]

Good pointer, especially for Ledoyen! Thanks.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[Maximilien]

My limited experience with high-end restaurants tell me that there are no significant difference in service, food and wow factor between lunch and diner, other than the fact that most of the restaurants offer a smaller (quicker) and cheaper lunch menu for more "business" type of people (kind'of); or do not offer the full tasting menu (for example, I think Le Cinq only offer the full tasting in the evening).

If they offer the same menu for both service I would assume they offer the same "extra" (whatever that is).

As for the duration, it takes about 2 to 3 hours for a full tasting menu; personally, I prefer eating out at lunch time ang go finish the afternoon in a museum or a long walk in the streets.

Nothing beats a 3* and a long walk with the love of your life arms in arms in Paris.

N,

M.

[uhockey]

Thanks Max. The "extra" is just that subjective thing that makes a meal special - can't really define it and it differs for everyone.

Again, your response is pretty much what I expected and the fact that the museums remain open until 9pm on some days makes lunch a great choice for my purposes.

Cheers.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[Parigi]

"difference in price and course number between lunch and dinner, what interests me is how they differ in terms of service, experience, and "wow" factor - if the dinner offers that extra "something" that makes it worth the price."

I find it to be more of a lifestyle issue. Not just in Paris, but elsewhere too, people go to dinner with a more leisurely feel in mind - The day, and whatever they have to do, is over. They can linger longer at table. But it is not the restaurant telling the diner to hurry up or slow down; it is the diner's own mindset. No one says you can't make your lunch a leisurely meal. In fact it is a very nice feeling.
Dinner is often more elaborate, and sometimes has more choice.
But several times such as at today's Spring, I suspect dinner is priced to bankroll the more experimental lunch.
Ze Kitchen Galerie also comes to mind, not that I think it is in the league of Spring. Its lunch is very good value. In my experience, dinner there is more elaborate but not better in quality. The price difference is big. The petit-bourgeoise in me can't help but think in these terms: Dinner, big markup; lunch, relatively low markup, hence good value.

In a place like chez L'Ami Jean, I don't see a difference between lunch and dinner, perhaps because I go there with the wrong (or right) persons... Except that ambiance-wise lunch seems less crowded, less hectic.

"for a restaurant like Ledoyen, Le Cinq, or Guy Savoy (merely examples) what is the average duration for a meal - Lunch vs. Dinner?"

Since the reservation is for the entire lunch time or dinner time, you stay as long as you want.

[uhockey]

Perfect response - pretty much sums up what I assumed, though the French dining scene clearly offers much more impressive Lunch options than even the best of the US.

Cheers.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[uhockey]

Hi Parigi,

In your opinion what would you say is the best "Classic French Experience" of the Michelin 2-3 Stars at lunch? My sister is nowhere near the gourmand diner I am and will be spending much more time than I wandering the arts scene, but I promised to take her to one meal that would be over the top.

Also, thanks in advance for agreeing to help Mr. Cheesemonger and myself with the L'Astrance reservation - it is much appreciated.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[Parigi]

Uhockey, you are so generous with your sister.
My pick for a classic dinner that delivers and does not have the kind of creative moves that might throw off a less experienced diner like your sister would probably be either Le Cinq or Guy Savoy. Your sister would find the setting of Le Cinq very memorable too.

But all the big boys on this board are much more knowledgeable than I re classic dining in Paris. Actually the petit bourgeois that I am, when it comes to classic dining, I like to get out of Paris and pig out properly in the provinces…

For other good dining experience, not necessarily starred, one CH report that stood out and which I found very informative was the one by Ingrid Ingrid:
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/758442

[uhockey]

Small family - just four of us total, so it is great to be able to help her do fun stuff I didn't have the chance to do at that age.

I'm thinking Le Cinq is the most likely destination for us at that special lunch meal - for dinners we'll be hitting spots like Le Regalade St. Honore, LAmi Lous, L'Ami Jean, and the like.

I'd definitely like to get out to other parts of France in the not-too-distant future, but we'll only have 9 days this time around and it seems Paris has more than enough art, food, and culture to take up a full month.

Thanks again - hopefully DCM can set up a group dinner with some of his Paris friends while we are in town; dining with locals is always a lovely experience.

http://uhockey.blogspot.com

[kfoster21]

My husband and I had lunch at Le Cinq and it was amazing. We spent over three hours there and had absolutely no complaints about the experience. One word of caution - we had the set menu with the wine pairings and the price was great for that portion; however, with all of the extras (like champagne) that we also had, it was a VERY expensive meal.