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Eat Right America. Anyone attempting this?

I get emails from Whole Foods normally about their specials, but last week I got an email about Eat Right America. Apparently, WF is giving out a code allowing people a free personalized nutritional profile and a 28 day membership.

The premise of the site is that they are educating people about our true nutritional needs and are pushing a "lifestyle" that includes a focus on greens and other vegetables, fruits, beans and nuts while challenging conventional "myths" about the healthfulness of milk, meat, eggs, and even olive oil. Essentially it is an almost vegetarian way of eating but they push more of the "eat this too" instead of "don't eat that."

After doing the profile, I was told my risk for certain diseases, like diabetes or heart disease, as well as given a nutritional outline or what I should include.change about my diet. (Example, at least 1 servings of beans/legumes daily, a salad daily, more fresh fruit in the morning, more nuts, less salt) I agree with the advice given to me and I don't see anything wrong with including these foods more prominently in my diet but due to a picky husband, I will not be removing meat and dairy from my diet as much as they advise.

I guess I was wondering if anyone else was going to look into this or has? What are your thoughts on it. Good advice or just another healthy fad?Any recipes that you have that would work within their limits? I am just curious to hear from other foodies on this.

(For those of you interested, the code is makeover.)

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  1. Eat Right America was developed by a family physician named Joel Fuhrman - if you haven't seen his website it might give you a bit of insight about him:

    http://www.drfuhrman.com/

    if you were to follow his book to the letter, you'd have to give up ALL cooking oils - he doesn't believe in them. not olive oil, not coconut oil, not butter...none.

    no sugar either - not maple syrup, not agave nectar, not coconut sugar.

    no dairy. period.

    no toasted nuts or seeds, only raw.

    eat fish very infrequently, or not at all.

    and no salt except for an occasional dash of tamari or Bragg's aminos.

    i worked for Whole Paycheck briefly and had to attend one of his seminars - they're mandatory for employees - and in fact, as part of my job i was supposed to promote the program and educate customers and employees about it. in fact, when someone from the audience asked him a question and didn't get a satisfactory answer, i piped up and gave her advice...and man did he get PISSED. glared at me, said we were wasting time because her question hadn't been important in the first place, dismissed us both with a wave of his hand, and went off on a totally unrelated random tangent about something funny his son did. the guy's a pompous, narrow-minded ass who thinks every person in America is an ignorant fool, and he's convinced that our only hope for survival is to follow his gospel.

    now, having said all that, if you just want to take a few pointers from it to improve the healthfulness of your overall diet, do the free trial just to see what you can get from it. at the very least it should give you access to the Members' area on the site to see the recipes that other people have come up with while following the plan. i'll definitely be curious to hear what you think if you decide to do it.

    3 Replies
    1. re: goodhealthgourmet

      He does say you can have fat free dairy on the website, actually But, frankly I would rather be dead than eat this way. really. And anyone who would so diss GHG is a fool!

      1. re: magiesmom

        aww, thanks! he was pissed because he knew i was right :)

        he must have tweaked the website guidelines in an attempt not to alienate everyone, because in the book he's totally anti-dairy. believe me, formulating recipes for WF that adhered to his stupid guidelines was no picnic.

        1. re: goodhealthgourmet

          what a job! of course he was pissed because he knew you were right :)

    2. "... anyone else was going to look into this or has? "
      I looked into it, had a good laugh, and wrote it off as poppycock.
      Every one of these guys has a product to sell - I ain't buyin' it.

      1. In my wildest dreams I cannot imagine any normal person even considering buying into this kind of tripe. The man is a crackpot, pure and simple.

        The recommended "diet" is way off the charts nutritionally. For starters, it's hopelessly deficient in carbs, fats and animal proteins.

        No way I can see a person sticking to it for more than, oh, maybe a week or so. Then the normal body requirements for nourishment would kick in and they would start to eat normally again.

        Lucy

        4 Replies
        1. re: I used to know how to cook...

          all the vegetables and legumes he recommends provide plenty of carbs; he does encourage fat intake in the form of nuts, seeds & avocado; and the human body doesn't specifically require *animal* protein for nourishment & survival...HOWEVER, it's still a crappy plan, and he's still a quack.

          1. re: I used to know how to cook...

            People will buy into it, since many have bought into sillier programs.

            The program is bad/biased science at its finest. It revolves around the food rating system, which selectively chooses nutrients and overemphasizes the ORAC value. In good science, you can't pick and choose or put double emphasis on something without merit/proof. In addition, their disclaimer is incorrect. Some nutrients they included, like Lutein, Zeaxanthin and Lycopene are not among the nutrients listed in the official recommended daily intake. Yet, they only claim that Carotenoids, Glucosinolates and ORAC don't have an official RDI. You can see the RDI values here:
            http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/...

            1. re: I used to know how to cook...

              I recommend at least reading Dr. Fuhrman's book "Eat To Live" as he covers your three alleged deficiencies ... Although I do not take everything Dr. Fuhrman says as gospel, I know that one can be perfectly healthy on a largely plant-based diet and limiting the consumption of processed carbs, fat, and animal proteins.

            2. I believe this is the fool who suggested that you "sautee" onions and garlic in water. (Complete lack of basic cooking knowledge, anyone?) My feelings are similar to GHG's. Although it sounds like the Whole Foods suggestions are a less crazy version, and I'm sure eating more vegetables and beans is good advice for most people.

              22 Replies
              1. re: jvanderh

                LOL! the whole stewing onions & garlic in water without sauteing first was how my confrontation with him started!!

                and to be clear, the WF program is even MORE stringent than his if you go into the store and talk to someone about their "Health Starts Here" program...it's the guidelines on Fuhrman's website that are a bit more relaxed.

                but yes, as much as i can't stand the guy, it's true that most Americans would benefit from following *some* of his advice.

                1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                  What a jerkwad. Worse, this kind of malarkey stigmatizes decent people making common sense efforts to get folks to eat more fruits and veggies and whole grains.

                  1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                    Our local WF doesn't offer it; manager refuses.

                    1. re: magiesmom

                      that's awesome, but pretty ballsy because the program is John Mackey's baby. he may not really be running the show there anymore, but the Exec board is still trying to keep him happy with this so they've really been pushing it...even though the majority of them think it's quackery.

                    2. re: goodhealthgourmet

                      HA! Well, you have my blessing for setting him straight.

                      I haven't looked into the whole foods thingie at all, but most of the suggestions the OP mentioned didn't sound too crazy (although most people who shop at whole foods probably already know salad is healthy). It's amazing how many diet programs take a little bit of good sound advice and then add a heaping scoop of crazy.

                      1. re: jvanderh

                        It's amazing how many diet programs take a little bit of good sound advice and then add a heaping scoop of crazy.
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~
                        LOL! love that :)

                        1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                          Because a heaping scoop of crazy is what sells books, magazines and gets you on talk shows -- everyone wants a cheap, magic fix instead of plain old moderation of calories and exercise .. because that's work.

                          1. re: Firegoat

                            Right. The laws of science are such a bummer sometimes. :-P

                      2. re: goodhealthgourmet

                        That is definitely one piece of Dr. Fuhrman's cooking advise that I find silly. The author/chef of the newly printed Forks Over Knives Cookbook is a water saute fiend too ....

                        1. re: hawkeyeui93

                          *Water* sautéing? Well, there's a book I'll never read. Ha.

                          1. re: linguafood

                            Water sauteing blows my little mind as well ....

                            1. re: hawkeyeui93

                              No, water sauteing has been around a really long time - I think it might be one of the first ways food was cooked - but back then they called it "boiling"... HA!!! :)

                            2. re: hawkeyeui93

                              Fat avoidance leads to nutritional deficiencies. Not only do you need significant dietery fat to survive, but you need it to absorb many plant based nutrients that are otherwise lost.

                              1. re: mcf

                                mcf: And the last I heard, there is ample dietary fat in the plant/legume world .... and unlike what others have been stating, Dr. Fuhrman and others do not advocate a "fat-free diet," but instead focuses on limiting processed sources of it. Most Americans have an ample source of fat already on store.

                                1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                  What possible benefit could come from water saute? I mean besides avoiding any pesky flavors or vitamin absorption? There is not adequate fat in a mostly plant food diet, unless you think 30% or under is adequate. Lipids researchers don't.

                                  There are only two essential macronutrients in human biology: fat and protein. Limits on those as % of diet isn't the recipe for eating right, IMO. I don't think anyone would disagree that polluted or hydrogenated fats are to be avoided, but animal fats from healthy, grass fed critters are life sustaining.

                                  1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                    I've been trying to eat an avocado a day. Lucky for me I think they are yummy. It is fun to be on another thread with mcf. We agree on a lot of things, most importantly the key role of diet in our health and well-being.
                                    I first came across mcf on a long deleted fasting thread where many rabid hounds dogpiled on a few of us. That thread caused quite a stir! I wonder if I can still acess it, mcf had some very insightful comments.

                                    1. re: givemecarbs

                                      I love avocados... I keep meaning to try a brownie recipe I found using them for the fat and moisture. Only Hass for moi. I'd forgotten about that fasting thread... long ago!

                                      1. re: mcf

                                        The raw chef at the local cafe makes a killer chocolate mousse using raw chocolate and avocado. Very rich and creamy and you would never guess the secret ingredient. Hass for me too.

                                      2. re: givemecarbs

                                        I first came across mcf on a long deleted fasting thread where many rabid hounds dogpiled on a few of us. That thread caused quite a stir! I wonder if I can still acess it, mcf had some very insightful comments.
                                        ~~~~~~~~
                                        this one?
                                        http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/756414

                                          1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                            Lots of belief and so little real understanding on so many nutrition and metabolism discussion boards here and elsewhere. Thanks for finding it.

                              2. UPDATE: I've decided to go forward with the 28 day program only. It consists of 4 weeks with each week you focus on one change. Weeks one is committing to eat one green salad everyday. So it could bu lunch, it could be before dinner, it could be with dinner. There are no rules about what you can put on it either. I have to say that this seems like sound advice. It certainly won't hurt me and since I am trying to lose a little baby weight anyway, there isn't any negatives.

                                After reading more on the site, he is basically pushing a vegan lifestyle and I don't know why he doesn't just say everyone should go vegan (perhaps marketing?). I am relieved to hear though that his theories are not totally sound. Sometimes when you go to these sites, they use some serious scare tactics and I admit I can be susceptible to them. Having an almost toddler I also really want to be sure my son is getting his nutrients.

                                7 Replies
                                1. re: AmandaCA

                                  he is basically pushing a vegan lifestyle and I don't know why he doesn't just say everyone should go vegan (perhaps marketing?)
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~
                                  bingo. too easy to scare off paying customers that way...which i believe is why the guidelines on his website aren't as stringent as the ones in the book.

                                  anyway, as i said above, you can absolutely glean some useful information from it...which you can apply to your current lifestyle to make small but significant healthful changes. i'm just glad you've chosen the sensible approach to it!

                                  1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                    But vegans don't only eat raw nuts in my experience eat olive oil, coconut milk, maple syrup. I wouldn't choose to be vegan but I get why people do.
                                    But certainly more veggies, non animal proteins, mindful attention to what goes in the body, these are good things. I am just very reactive to the doctrinaire in any form. I'm done now. please forgive the rant.

                                    1. re: magiesmom

                                      Exactly magiesmom. This sounds MORE stringent, at least in some regards, to a vegan diet. I had to blanch those almonds to press my almond milk back in the 90s, dangit! And olive oil? What's the problem with olive oil?

                                      1. re: debbiel

                                        According to Dr. Fuhrman, it's benefits are a modern "myth." He says that an oil is still an oil and that the caloric content outweighs any benefits it may have.

                                        This was one of his points that made me question this in the first place.

                                        1. re: AmandaCA

                                          Wow. So does he see the benefits of oil as a modern "myth", or the benefits of any fat at all?

                                          1. re: debbiel

                                            he acknowledges the benefits of small amounts of fats in their whole-food forms - avocado, nuts & seeds, coconut *meat* - but insists that any fat extracted or processed from these foods is dangerous to your health...except, of course, for the "purified" fatty acid supplements he sells on his website :)

                                            1. re: goodhealthgourmet

                                              Well thank goodness he's purifying them for us! What would we do without him? :)

                                2. Earlier this week, I went to a screening of "Forks Over Knives" sponsored by Whole Foods. Very much involved with this movement, and the Engine 2 cookbook and, I suppose, lifestyle guide. There were perhaps a dozen carnivores in the theater - there was a show of hands. I agree that this is verging on the crackpot. And, yes, you COULD get enough calcium, iron and complement of amino acids that make up a complete protein, you'd have to eat large quantities. Of course, just consuming only carbohydrates could also leave you feeling hungry in just a few hours.

                                  What bothers me more is that physicians in the movie (including Fuhrman) are telling folks with hypertension and diabetes to stop all their meds and depend solely on their diet. Very worrisome. I can see tapering them gradually, assuming the person was being monitored frequently, but...too many years working internal medicine for me not to get agita over this.
                                  And the phrase "whole foods" popped up with amusing frequency in the film, although not with obvious capital letters.

                                  One chap said he was not only vegan, he had gone "vinegar-free". Rationale unexplained. And I did ask about the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Got a riff on drunk driving from the Engine 2 author and no good answer, although another panelist in the post discussion did say one of the leaders of the movement did allow a bit of leeway on such things.

                                  YMMV, but as Ira Gershwin wrote, it's not for me.

                                  3 Replies
                                  1. re: lemons

                                    There was some recent news about a doctor named Michael Platt, Palm Desert, CA, who was arrested for practicing after his license was suspended. As I recall, he also took his patients off their diabetes meds and (I think...) also blood pressure meds.

                                    Lucy

                                    1. re: lemons

                                      yep, sounds about right! at the seminar i attended, a noticeably overweight woman said something about not understanding how she would be able to just give up insulin. Fuhrman told her that all it was doing was making her sicker...and insinuated that had she not allowed herself to get fat in the first place, it wouldn't be an issue.

                                      1. re: lemons

                                        I have to admit I haven't read up on this beyond this thread (so I haven't looked at the website or read his book or looked at the WF program), but...why would you need to eat large quantities to get the nutrition you need? I really don't need a large plate of beans and quinoa to be satisfied or healthy.

                                        I agree that it is frightening and irresponsible to tell people to go off their meds.

                                      2. It saddens me to hear that WF is seemingly so involved in these rather extremest notions. I am sure that for some people, a healthier diet would solve some of their medical problems but that's not always the case. What about Type 1 diabetes or genetic tendencies? And healthy people can still get cancers, etc. too, i.e. Lance Armstrong.

                                        It is well agreed though out this thread that we could all eat a little more vegetables and a little less bad stuff; which begs the question. Is there a sane website with good solid advice about nutrition and healthy eating habits that doesn't venture into crazy, marketing or scare-tactic territory?

                                        1 Reply
                                        1. The folks in the film and the author of the book I spoke of go beyond the vegan in their elimination of fats.

                                          I keep thinking about something I read about extreme fashion, sort of "We don't expect every woman to raise her hems 10 inches above her knees when we show that. What we'd like to see is hems go up a couple of inches for the average woman." In other words, extreme views may cause a shift in the middle of the road. And aren't these guys just sort of horrible mirror image of those poor folks who eat nothing but fast food? If it means that most of us will eat a little healthier, that's fine...but I don't think they're seeing that as their aim.

                                          3 Replies
                                          1. re: lemons

                                            If it means that most of us will eat a little healthier, that's fine...but I don't think they're seeing that as their aim.
                                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                            bingo. you just hit on my biggest beef (pun intended) with these guys.

                                            1. re: lemons

                                              I think in this case, more people are likely to lower their figurative hemlines. People looking for an excuse to not eat a more healthful diet will use extreme plans as an out for even moderate change.

                                              1. re: lemons

                                                I have to say that this is what has happened with me. I am eating more salad and I did buy more greens and beans this week. I also bought some flaxseed for my morning smoothies before I work out. So although I am not going all the way extreme, it did raise my nutrition a bit.

                                                If that was their goal, I doubt I would have started this discussion in the first place though. It certainly seems that they are more of a "my way or the highway" type of attitude what with the scare tactics and marketing. I am 25 and of average height and weight, and I think we eat fairly healthy, but was told that I was a high risk for heart disease, diabetes and strokes. Just a touch frightening...

                                              2. First off, let me say that both my parents are dead, one at 50 from a brain aneurism (she was obese with high blood pressure). The other from a heart attck at 60 (obese, high blood pressure).

                                                So at age 45 i watched "Fat Sick and Nearly Dead" and found out about the doctor providing nutritional guidance.

                                                I had tried South Beach and Atkins and just eating what I thought was well, but I was 232 lbs and 5'9" with terrible cholestorel levels and blood pressure (155 over 115 while on blood presure medications).

                                                I bought Eat to Live, followed it for 8 weeks and have lost 35 lbs! I feel great and no longer take any medicines after being medicated for high blood pressure and depression.

                                                I love food recipes and cooking great tasting things, but not more than I like living and being there for my two daughters. So I still cook, but now it's with amazing nutrient density. I am what Fuhrman calls a nutritarian.

                                                If you believe Dr. Fuhrmand and John Markey are using scare tactics, maybe I'd agree. But what is scarier, a change in your meal plan or ending up like my parents and literally millions of others in America who, without change, will succumb to their a fate of heart attacks, strokes and or diabetic complications, with an increaed risks of breast or prostate cancer.

                                                I hope this helps quell some of the anti Fuhrman sentiments on this thread. Simply put, try it for 6 weeks if you want to lower weight, lower blood pressure, lower reliance on medications, while increasing energy, brain function, mood, quality of sleep, and overall well being!

                                                31 Replies
                                                1. re: Bradyou

                                                  Eight weeks on a vegan diet obviously did you a lot of good, and that's wonderful. Anyone who has been living on the SAD diet of processed foods, industrial vegetable oils and HFCS is going to show an improvement. It is impossible to turn the world vegan. I don't think the Inuit and the Masai are going to start downing wheatgrass smoothies any time soon.

                                                  1. re: Bradyou

                                                    You lost thirty-five pounds because you decreased your caloric intake. You can eat 1500 calories a day of Twinkies and lose weight (it's Real Science!). I occasionally follow elimination diets similar to the one in Eat to Live, but I don't consider it to be a long-term weight loss strategy as the weight always comes back when I start to eat "normally" (and there are a lot of people who would consider my "normal" to be almost as health-obsessed as Eat to Live). I have other personal reasons for following elimination diets, unrelated to weight or medical conditions. No offense, but you're what? Eight weeks in? You're still in the honeymoon phase. Come back in a year and tell us how Eat to Live has worked as a long-term weight loss strategy for you.

                                                    1. re: Jetgirly

                                                      I realize this post will probably never be read since I happened upon this comment thread a little late, but I've been eating following Fuhrman's recommendations for 8 years now and it was the best decision I ever made with regards to my health. I have maintained a steady weight, I don't have cravings for junk anymore, and I sometimes eat off plan if I want to (most of the time I don't want to). Was it easy? No. But it was worth it, especially since I'm someone that has always struggled with my weight. It's nice not to have to think about that anymore. And? I'm not vegan. I indulge in meat and dairy once in a great while, much less than what Fuhrman actually says is allowable, because it just doesn't have much appeal anymore. The most valuable thing eating this way did was change my taste buds so that artificial, high fat flavors are too strong to eat often. His Eat to Live book is touted as a diet book, but if you read the whole thing, it's a lifestyle book. And I applaud WF for their efforts. And by the way, both my parents also eat this way and my mom no longer has arthritis, she doesn't need meds for her high cholesterol, and she doesn't need a nap anymore. Say what you want about Fuhrman (I don't particularly like him either) but his science is solid and what he proposes isn't crazy. Accepting that getting sick as we age is what's crazy. Oh, and yes, you would lose weight eating 1500 Twinkie calories a day, but you would feel horrible. The best thing about eating a plant-based, nutrient dense diet is that you not only lose the weight, but you feel pretty awesome.

                                                      1. re: gkmama

                                                        I read your post gkmama! Enjoying a green smoothie right now. The annoying part about this lifestyle is that I've lost weight and had to buy new clothes that fit. Expensive! I'm not vegan either, partly because it is too socially isolating and I also fear the canary in the mine shaft syndrome. I want my body to be able to tolerate a little junk without going on red alert.
                                                        Who says that visionaries that are trying to save the world have to be likeable? Gah, stupid cult of celebrities. People trying to get others to eat a healthier diet get worn down real quickly. I imagine the burn out rate is high. People act like you just told them Christmas has been cancelled.
                                                        I like what you said about Accepting that getting sick as we age is what's crazy. The junk food vegans are really really annoying.
                                                        Thanks for a great post!

                                                        1. re: givemecarbs

                                                          :) Wow- I really expected it wouldn't be read by anyone. I don't usually post on forums, but the responses here got me fired up. I don't think it's true that people know what they should be eating. I think the money behind the meat and dairy industry and big pharma keep us ignorant for a reason. And I'm so glad there are people like Dr. Fuhrman, Dr. Campbell, Dr. Esselstyn, Joe Cross, Engine2 Diet, etc putting up the fight to get the information out there. The facts are that low nutrient foods (like animal products, sugars, processed food, refined grains) are killing us. And if you know that and still choose to predominately eat that way, so be it. Just don't make me pay for your healthcare. (there should be a box to check on insurance about diet) Anyway, I could go on and on... obviously. :) Thanks for responding.

                                                          1. re: gkmama

                                                            "Animal products are low nutrient foods?"

                                                            That's news to me.

                                                            1. re: linguafood

                                                              That is true linguafood. Your body simply can't utilize the nutrients in meat and dairy. Meat will keep you alive and give you calories, but they are empty calories.

                                                              1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                I have my doubts about your statement, as I have never heard this other than from crazy vegans/vegetarians with an agenda. My body can't utilize the nutrients in milk and dairy? Really? All that protein, fat, minerals, and vitamins just go right through me, huh?

                                                                Thank goodness those "empty calories" taste pretty damn fantastic.

                                                                1. re: linguafood

                                                                  Linguafood,

                                                                  You need to embrace the Level 5 Vegan lifestyle - eat nothing that casts a shadow...

                                                                  Hunt

                                                                2. re: givemecarbs

                                                                  Your body actually utilizes nutrients in animal foods extremely well, particularly protein and heme iron, essential fatty acids. Somebody should alert the Inuit. And the researchers who put arctic explorers on a meat only diet for one year and saw only benefits.

                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biologic...

                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                    We will have to agree to disagree on this one mcf. At least we both have the same belief that what we choose to eat can make a world of difference.
                                                                    My Uncle has had type two diabetes for thirty years and has to give himself an insulin shot twice a day. He is elderly and is doing a little worse right now. He started getting meals on wheels about two months ago and I am surprised that they don't seem to offer a diabetic version. Or am I wrong? Does anyone know?

                                                                    1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                      Unfortunately, the ADA recommends a diet of almost all carbs to diabetics. They say that DMs should eat the same low fat, high sugar diet they recommend for everyone, and take meds to compensate. Trials have proven that leads to more complications and higher mortality though.

                                                                      I do agree that food choices are important for us personally and the world around us. I've eaten both ways in my life time.

                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                        Oof. Yeah my uncle is in the stroke unit of the hospital right now. He got meals on wheels to save a bit of money. Before that he was walking around town to get his breakfast and lunch. /sigh. He wasn't eating all his meals on wheels and insisted that I take a few home. They are dreary miserable things. This knowledge alone has motivated me even more to take care of my health. Somehow I ended up with the complete list of meals for august. From what I believe about dairy, especially low fat dairy, I am horrified that a small container of low fat milk is included with each dinner.

                                                                        1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                          I have no gripe with dairy foods, but low fat milk has so much fast sugar that it can be used in place of OJ for hypoglycemia. Seriously.

                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                            So mcf, yesterday I go to see my Uncle Joe in the stroke unit of the hospital (he has had type two diabetes for thirty years) and there is a container of low fat milk by his bedside. I told my uncle to at least ask for a diabetic diet while he is in the hospital.
                                                                            There was another very long thread, I think it was the one I started called People Who Don't Like Food, where hounds discussed how the medical profession doesn't seem to incorporate what people are eating into treatment plans. That was an amazing discussion. I don't remember too many hounds posting just to mock other hounds back then.

                                                                            1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                              I'm sorry to tell you this, but all carbs IS the diabetic diet! He has to request low carb, no starch, no sugar and hope for the best. In my case, that meant I got sandwich meat without the bread and the lettuce and tomato on the side, and dinners with extra green veggies and no potato/rice bread, etc. If you ask for a diabetic diet, he'll get low protein, low fat and tons of sugar and starch. That IS what the ADA recommends.

                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                Oof. Thanks mcf. I did not know that. How do you feel about high fiber fruit? Some believe that high fiber fruit regulates the digestive system and can be really good for diabetics.

                                                                                1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                                  Fruit is not diabetic friendly in general. Some folks do better with them than others, like blackberries, strawberries, blueberries, and some can't eat more than one berry if that. One has to use a meter and this guide to know which foods keep one in acceptable numbers: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/flyer... If you're a healthy non diabetic, fruit in moderation may be part of a healthy diet. In the case of diabetes, the tolerance horse is already out of the barn.

                                                              2. re: gkmama

                                                                Piffle. Facts? Those aren't facts. Maybe it works for some, but there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all way of eating. I gain almost immediately with high carb diets and too many vegetables and beans. I can feel the ill effects in my body.

                                                            2. re: gkmama

                                                              And here's an informative film (kind of long 55 minutes) done by Dr. Michael Greger...he sells no supplements or books...he just makes these videos (www.nutritionfacts.org) and yes, he's vegan. We do have the power to reverse many illnesses; plants give us much much more than dairy and meat and even if you just start including more plants, it seems you are off to a good start in making positive changes, for what it's worth: http://nutritionfacts.org/video/uproo...

                                                              1. re: Val

                                                                Thanks Val. I was getting a little depressed reading some of the other comments on this thread. I still eat meat and dairy but consider those items a treat or indulgence. It's pretty easy to eat healthy here in Pa this time of year with so much local produce.
                                                                I believe what you are saying, it is just that putting the theories into practice is a whole 'nother thing. Right now the adding more plants seems to work for me. If we are going to feed the trolls maybe we can get them to have a green smoothie with their meal. :)

                                                                1. re: Val

                                                                  I had nothing but ill effects on my metabolism and health on both vegetarian and vegan diets in the past. Frankly, any diet that induces deficiencies without supplementation is clearly not an "eat right" choice for humans in terms of health promotion.

                                                                  By definition, it's a choice to place ideology rather than health in the center of one's plate.

                                                                  I don't argue with folks about their personal choices, just about objective information regarding scientifically supportable facts about nutrition and metabolism. One's choices are one's own to make.

                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                    True dat mcf. Green smoothies are pretty amazing though. I forget if I asked you before on another thread if you have ever tried them?

                                                                    1. re: givemecarbs

                                                                      Not a smoothie person. I eat food.

                                                                2. re: Jetgirly

                                                                  Jet: Calorie reduction is only one half of the equation .... I'm sure you would be infinitely more healthy eating 1,500 calories of broccoli or spinach than 1,500 calories of twinkies or cheeseburgers.

                                                                  1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                    Maybe only half of the health equation, but calories in and calories out are pretty much the entirety of the weight gain and weight loss equation.

                                                                    1. re: Jetgirly

                                                                      That's just not so. If it were, we wouldn't all know skinny folks who eat tons of food more than others who are heavier. Hormonal status, environment, heredity and life style all play roles. But food groups each have different hormonal influences that decide the fate of their calories. That's why low carb dieters in studies have lost more weight on high calories than low fat, high carb dieters on much lower calorie diets. Here's the most recent report: http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/201206...

                                                                3. re: Bradyou

                                                                  Thanks for your comments Bradyou. I saw Fat Sick and Nearly Dead at a dinner and a movie event at my local raw cafe. Leave it to an Aussie to teach with a light touch and a lot of humor. I've seen Forks Over Knives, Healing Cancer from the Inside Out, and Simply Raw and this movie is more accessible than the others.
                                                                  I've been trying to add more raw fruits and vegetables to my diet since last summer, and it's been a struggle. But for the month of November the raw cafe near me offered customers a free green smoothie every single day if you attended the four life transformation classes. I decided to go for it and I found that I had a lot more energy over the past month. Then I tried on a skirt I was planning to wear this New Year's Eve and it fell off. I was kind of shocked as I hadn't really expected to lose any weight.

                                                                4. Another fad. Eat less, exercise more and you'll lose weight. If your I.Q. exceeds 85, you know the right foods to eat.

                                                                  2 Replies
                                                                  1. re: beevod

                                                                    Dr. Fuhrman definitely advocates eating less processed food and exercising more. So, although my IQ is hovering around 75, I do not think his basic message is any different than any other competent medical doctor would advocate ....

                                                                    1. re: beevod

                                                                      Carbohydrates such as fructose, glucose and sucrose use different metabolic pathways. Glucose, the gasoline that keeps a cell's engine running is converted to glycogen when there is an excess. Fructose, also is metabolized in the liver where excesses are stored as fat. It also inhibits hormones associated with the feeling of being full.

                                                                      That is just one tiny piece of the metabolic puzzle that science has yet to completely piece together.

                                                                    2. "due to a picky husband, I will not be removing meat and dairy from my diet as much as they advise."

                                                                      What does a picky husband have to do with YOUR diet?

                                                                      1 Reply
                                                                      1. re: pdxgastro

                                                                        I would guess it has a lot to do with it, if you do things together.

                                                                      2. Seeing as any of us could die in a terrorist attack tomorrow, this hedonist believes in eating and drinking however much of whatever the hell we want whenever we want today. 'nuff said...

                                                                        2 Replies
                                                                          1. re: GroovinGourmet

                                                                            Only the fittest will survive. Ever see 'Zombieland'? Jesse Eisenberg's character had the BEST list for how to survive the Zombie Apocalypse. #1 was Cardio training (to outrun them). Love that!

                                                                            1. If you are going to give WF and a family physician (who is not your own) some of your time and energy, then you owe it to yourself to give the other side some consideration as well.

                                                                              "Your disease, your fault" by Peter Lipson
                                                                              http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/i...

                                                                              Twenty-Five Ways to Spot Quacks and Vitamin Pushers by Stephen Barrett, M.D.
                                                                              http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryR...

                                                                              Last but not least, an introductory college textbook (very readable) that would probably provide all the sensible nutrition knowledge you'll ever need:
                                                                              Nutrition Concepts and Controversies by Hamilton/Whitney/Sizer
                                                                              http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Hami...

                                                                              You'd get a couple estimates before renovating your kitchen, why not your diet?

                                                                              9 Replies
                                                                              1. re: applgrl

                                                                                I also recommend that you read both Dr. Joel Furhman's "Eat To Live" [which is the doctor alleged to have assisted WF with this campaign] and more about the influencing study that he relies upon [commonly known as the Cornell-Oxford-China Study: http://webarchive.human.cornell.edu/c...]. and judge it for yourself as well. After all, everyone should have all the facts right?

                                                                                1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                  If it's facts you want, then read Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, an award winning science writer who's written exhaustive reviews of the scientific literature on nutrition and metabolism. A toiugh scientific slog, but completely supported by science. For another very scientically accurate read, Protein Power by the Eades is well documented, too.

                                                                                  1. re: mcf

                                                                                    Read Taubes, who is a science writer that makes substantially similar arguments as Dr. Furhman (on many fronts). .... So, have you read the Cornell-Oxford-China Study?

                                                                                    1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                      The highly discredited study? Yes. And a number of reviews. Having read tons of nutrition and metabolic science for over a decade, I recognize it as total crap.

                                                                                      1. re: mcf

                                                                                        You think the Cornell-Oxford-China Study is total crap and highly discredited? I have yet to see any unbiased dissent about the actual study [not the recent book] worth merit. And if you are concerned about my having a bias in this position, I'm not a vegetarian nor vegan.

                                                                                        1. re: hawkeyeui93

                                                                                          I have yet to see any scrupulous evaluation find merit for its claims. Since they're so at odds with the unbiased research I've read for years, yeah, I think it's junk.

                                                                                          1. re: mcf

                                                                                            This thread is probably dead, but I still want to respond in case someone finds it while Googling Dr. Fuhrman like I did.

                                                                                            Most here haven't read the book and are making uninformed comments. His book is helping a lot of people lose major weight, reverse the effects of diabetes and high blood pressure, and get off harmful meds.

                                                                                            As he says in the book, many people are in denial about the harmful effects of the foods they eat. I recommend watching Forks Over Knives, reading Eat to Live, and then seeing how you feel.

                                                                                            At least be properly informed before you take things out of context and bash!

                                                                                            1. re: gonongmo

                                                                                              "As he says in the book, many people are in denial about the harmful effects of the foods they eat. "

                                                                                              And some of us have studied the matter extensively for many years, using the information to reverse diabetic nephropathy and neuropathy and to control diabetes without any meds for a decade and more. Doing the opposite of what he promotes, eating a protein, fat and nutrient dense diet, grain free and almost no fruit.

                                                                                              The Furhman recommendations boil down to sugar, mostly, once metabolized.

                                                                                              1. re: mcf

                                                                                                Yes. And, just from my observances, most people lose weight *the first time they try* on any sort of planned diet as they are finally paying attention to what, when, and how they are eating. Doesn't mean they'll keep it off and it doesn't mean it's the most nutritionally sound plan for their own specific physiology.

                                                                                                I thrive on a plan such as mcf describes. If I ate the Furhmann way, ugh - bloated, broken out, sleepless, just ugh.

                                                                              2. Anyone here follow the 'Eat Right For Your Blood type' diet and if so what is your opinion?

                                                                                1 Reply
                                                                                1. re: Puffin3

                                                                                  I don't follow it but, and not that this means anything really, but the diet proposed for my type is what my body likes best.

                                                                                  Coincidence, not a coincidence, who knows.

                                                                                2. whether it is a fad or not is irrelevant.

                                                                                  if you are science-based-thinker, you know that you can affect your health-outcome probabilities (not certainties) by eating a healthful diet.

                                                                                  whatever system or device you use to help you eat more healthfully is good if it is effective (i.e. causes actual, sustained, behavior change).

                                                                                  that said, i've been looking at this subject for years and keeping track of the research, so i wouldn't want/need to depend on whole foods for advice.

                                                                                  1 Reply
                                                                                  1. re: westsidegal

                                                                                    "i've been looking at this subject for years and keeping track of the research, so i wouldn't want/need to depend on whole foods for advice."

                                                                                    This.